NationStates Jolt Archive

A mad scientist/genie/god/whatever has just given you the power to go back in time and "enlighten" a culture at least 1000 years in the past. You will be given the power to bestow upon your choice 1000+ years of accumulated knowledge of math, science, and technology, as well as any other knowledge you wish to convey. The people of the chossen culture will accept and use this knowledge.

Who do you choose and why? What do you expect will happen?

Who do you choose
The Atlantians.
and why?
See below.
What do you expect will happen?
They'll destroy themselves.

Been there, done that... :p

At the risk of my life, I'd go to Arabia and re-establish Hinduism there (getting rid of the Arabian religion). I'd probably kill Muhammad while I'm at it since he'd be my enemy. Basically, I'd be the Hindu Muhammad. Imagine how different the world would be.

Either way, time travel is logically impossible since it'd cause an eternal paradoxial loop in the 4th dimension.

The Roman Empire at its height.

INSTA-WIN. I'd also declare myself to be an Avatar of Iuppiter and expect immediate obedience from all the SPQR. :D Soon, the Moon would be Roman! By now, Alpha Centauri would fly the Imperial Eagle! AHAHAHAHA etc

The people of the chossen culture will accept and use this knowledge.

Who will then use this thousand years of bonus knowledge to kill/imprison me to ensure I don't give it to anyone else, build advanced weapons of war, and thump their neighbors in a grand orgy of supremely unbalanced world conquest.

I'll pass.

The Roman Empire at its height.

INSTA-WIN. I'd also declare myself to be an Avatar of Iuppiter and expect immediate obedience from all the SPQR. :D

But since you gave them all that knowledge, they know you aren't, and thereby, mortal. And then someone puts a spear in your ribs.

A mad scientist/genie/god/whatever has just given you the power to go back in time and "enlighten" a culture at least 1000 years in the past. You will be given the power to bestow upon your choice 1000+ years of accumulated knowledge of math, science, and technology, as well as any other knowledge you wish to convey. The people of the chossen culture will accept and use this knowledge.
just Math, Science and Technology?

Who do you choose No one.
and why? would you let a child play with a gun? or drive a car?
What do you expect will happen?more tragedy than there is already in history.

Certain tribes of American Indians vastly pre-1492. Let them build a clean, environmental friendly and most of all powerful civilisation on their continent. Fire a patriot missile at Columbus vessels.

Who do you choose and why?

anyone, really. because I have to.

What do you expect will happen?

this thread wouldn't exist.

But since you gave them all that knowledge, they know you aren't, and thereby, mortal. And then someone puts a spear in your ribs.

No, because I will have first gone forwards in time and got hold of a big load of self-defence kit. Also a laser for the EYE OF GOD attack. ;)

A mad scientist/genie/god/whatever has just given you the power to go back in time and "enlighten" a culture at least 1000 years in the past. You will be given the power to bestow upon your choice 1000+ years of accumulated knowledge of math, science, and technology, as well as any other knowledge you wish to convey. The people of the chossen culture will accept and use this knowledge.

Who do you choose and why? What do you expect will happen?

18th Dyn. Egypt

Why not?

Give the Hittites and Phoenicians an "interesting" time, shock 'n' awe the Nubians (before winning hearts and minds, of course! Garlands of flowers for the beautiful youth an all that...)

Also getting said "enlightenment" conditional upon the nation torturing, executing, dismembering, burning and eliminating from history anyone who may just happen at some point in the future to use the words "aten" "sole" and "god" in the same sentence and talk about moving capitals. This will be followed by a lecture on tolerance, diversity and sensitivity :D

just Math, Science and Technology?

"as well as any other knowledge you wish to convey"

So far you do have the best answer, however. :)

"as well as any other knowledge you wish to convey"

So far you do have the best answer, however. :)

gotta tell ya. I'm awfully tempted to drop printouts of several newspapers focusing on Civil rights (Racial, Sexual, Orientation, etc...), Religious Intolernace (both towards Religion and from Religion), and Socal Issues (Creationism vs. Evolution, Same Sex marriage, social welfare, etc..) on the laps of the Continental Congress members as they were forming the Constitution and Bill of Rights just to see what changes would be made... if any.

Pyrrhos Aikedes or Megas Alexandros. I just want to see what would have happened if a Hellenic culture would have dominated even moreso than it did, and bested Rome. Hopefully, Christianity--and the other major monothesims-- never would have arisen as large powers, and there'd be no Crusades, Inquisitions, Jihads or anything like that. Maybe, if they had such a head start at that time, we'd be past all this religion nonsense by now.

England, only just over 1'000 years into the past: I wouldn't try giving them all of that knowledge, just enough to make their defeating William the Bastard's invasion in 1066 a fairly safe bet. (Oh, and some information about basic sanitation, hygiene, and a few medical techniques that they could have managed at their Tech Level too...) It would be interesting to see how that changed the course of subsequent events...

The Jews, circa 67 CE.

Why? They're my people, and see below:

What will happen?

Jewish revolt succeeds due to automatic weapons. Second Temple not destroyed. No Diaspora. Jews get a state 1900 years ahead of schedule.

The Jews, circa 67 CE.

Why? They're my people, and see below:

What will happen?

Jewish revolt succeeds due to automatic weapons. Second Temple not destroyed. No Diaspora. Jews get a state 1900 years ahead of schedule.
Jews then conquer entire Middle East, and subsequently turn west against Rome. A new prophet arises amongst them, and promotes the forcible conversion of the gentiles. They build a mighty empire, but then religious sectarianism develops and -- along with the effects of generals' political ambitions -- causes this to break up into a number of warring states... and, sooner or later, the technology leaks to some non-Jewish power (such as Han-dynasty China) that adopts it and manages to fight them to a standstill on that front...

A mad scientist/genie/god/whatever has just given you the power to go back in time and "enlighten" a culture at least 1000 years in the past. You will be given the power to bestow upon your choice 1000+ years of accumulated knowledge of math, science, and technology, as well as any other knowledge you wish to convey. The people of the chossen culture will accept and use this knowledge.

Who do you choose and why? What do you expect will happen?

my people at the time of the prophets death i would come down explaining my self as a servant of god, order the imam ali and the caliph abu bakr to share power, givie them the scientific advencment to take the area that they held at the time in the middle east. then make as staible as possble.
why cus theyr my people duh.
i expect that they will conquer the world and there will have been anti religion thing going on

The Jews, circa 67 CE.

Why? They're my people, and see below:

What will happen?

Jewish revolt succeeds due to automatic weapons. Second Temple not destroyed. No Diaspora. Jews get a state 1900 years ahead of schedule.
that could work:) better than now any ways

Spread the word...from the late 1500s on...
Psssst...nitôtemak, nipâk môniyawak anohc.

(Hey buddies, kill all the whiteys this time.)

Spread the word...from the late 1500s on...
Psssst...nitôtemak, nipâk môniyawak anohc.

(Hey buddies, kill all the whiteys this time.)

Oooo, what a pretty racist.

Jews then conquer entire Middle East, and subsequently turn west against Rome. A new prophet arises amongst them, and promotes the forcible conversion of the gentiles. They build a mighty empire, but then religious sectarianism develops and -- along with the effects of generals' political ambitions -- causes this to break up into a number of warring states... and, sooner or later, the technology leaks to some non-Jewish power (such as Han-dynasty China) that adopts it and manages to fight them to a standstill on that front...

Not easy, since I'd be running the show. Here is what I imagine:

Once Israel is independent, I have two major threats. One is Rome. I'd deal with that threat by ordering the assassination of anyone who looks like they might become Emperor. Roman civil war is prolonged.

The other threat is an independent Egypt, which has the manpower to threaten Israel. I'd conquer them outright. I would make a lot of friends by freeing all the slaves (so all the ex-slaves are my friends), and declare Alexandria as the provincial capital. I would use the Library as my HQ, so I have an excuse to spend a few weeks perusing the scrolls. To avoid the chance of it being destroyed, I'd order two "backup" libraries constructed. One would be the Library of Jerusalem, open to the public. The other would be the National Archives at Masada, used for government purposes only. Oh, and Egyptian grain will allow Israel to become self-sufficient in terms of food, even as Israel itself transitions to an industrial economy.

When Boudicca's revolt comes around, I'd find a way to change history so she wins. This will be the beginning of the end for Rome. With the civil war in its second decade and a successful revolt in Brittania, other barbarians will begin to revolt. Western Europe begins to break away. My air force will ensure that there are no Roman garrisons in the Near East, so the locals there will secede. Those near me (modern-day Lebanon, Syria, Transjordan, Western Iraq) will probably join me. The revolt of Greece, followed by the Balkans, will be the killing blow. The Roman Empire will collapse into Italy, a mere shadow of its former self.

Other nations will copy our technologies eventually. But we'll have a head start - and we'll have an industrial economy before they do. And the Holy State of Israel will be no pushover - stretching from the Nile to the Euphrates, from the Arabian Desert to the mountains of Anatolia. Our size alone will pose problems. And by the time other nations access gunpowder, I will have the nuclear option.

I'd teach the Vikings all secrets of modern mathematics. This would rock. Differentiating in Odin's name.

I would give the Turk's the higher technology during the seige of viena, I see a Islamic Rome and a WW1 long before it should happen also no USA if only...

I would sell guns to the Romans then use my money and power to build a large villa in the Italian countryside. I would then be assassinated by an unknown gunman.

18th Dyn. EgyptAnd keep Akhenaten from bringing Egypt to its knees, losing the Northern Empire, and all influence in Israel?

The Jews, circa 67 CE.

Why? They're my people, and see below:

What will happen?

Jewish revolt succeeds due to automatic weapons. Second Temple not destroyed. No Diaspora. Jews get a state 1900 years ahead of schedule.That's funny. If you enlighten Jews they'd stop worshiping their "god" and lose their distinction and just be like the rest of the population of 67 CE Palestine. No Jewish revolt would happen. And definitely no "Jewish" state would emerge.

Jewish revolt succeeds due to automatic weapons. Second Temple not destroyed. No Diaspora. Jews get a state 1900 years ahead of schedule.


So Palestinian women and children will be murdered 1900 years ahead of schedule?!

That's funny. If you enlighten Jews they'd stop worshiping their "god" and lose their distinction and just be like the rest of the population of 67 CE Palestine. No Jewish revolt would happen. And definitely no "Jewish" state would emerge.

Umm... why? In case you hadn't noticed, there's still a pretty hefty number of Jews around, and they don't seem to be going anywhere fast. They all have access to exactly the same knowledge as he'd been giving them in this scenario. What makes you think the Jews of two thousand odd years ago would be any more likely to deny their faith because of modern technology than the Jews of today?

The same applies to any religion - we all have modern technology, and there's still an awful lot of us who believe in one god or another, or many gods come to that. Why should that change simply because you'd have our situation at an earlier point in history.

Umm... why? In case you hadn't noticed, there's still a pretty hefty number of Jews around, and they don't seem to be going anywhere fast. They all have access to exactly the same knowledge as he'd been giving them in this scenario. What makes you think the Jews of two thousand odd years ago would be any more likely to deny their faith because of modern technology than the Jews of today?

The same applies to any religion - we all have modern technology, and there's still an awful lot of us who believe in one god or another, or many gods come to that. Why should that change simply because you'd have our situation at an earlier point in history.Enlightening someone means more than conveying technology. Enlightenment means to think for oneself and not be subject to fabricated gods.

I'd give the Neanderthals rocket launchers, air conditioners and running shoes. Lets see what the Cro-magnons and/or rising temperatures think about that.

The Merovingians.

"In the 20th century, a state named Belgium exists, a bit to your north - remember this, it's the kind of advice that'll help when the time comes. Also, here is how to make toilet roll. Make your fortunes, please."

Enlightening someone means more than conveying technology. Enlightenment means to think for oneself and not be subject to fabricated gods.

That's an incredibly narrow minded and, if you don't mind me saying so, unenlightened view. You're saying that the ability to think for oneself is exclusive to the belief in a religion.

That, I hate to say, if pure, unadulterated nonsense. To say, perhaps, that enlightenment means to think for oneself and thus have the freedom of choice over whether to accept religion or not is far closer to acceptable. Just because someone has faith doesn't mean they are mentally shackled. To say that enlightenment would be the divulgence of knowledge and then the freedom to weigh up evidence for and against the existence of God would be just as good. To say that enlightenment is thinking for yourself and thus denying the existence of God is just plain foolish.

Why, pray tell, will a well-informed, free-thinking individual deny the existence of God? And please give an answer that is universal enough to apply to absolutely everybody, in all situations.

I would give it to the Americans shortly after the French Revolution ends. I would especially focus on the whole tolerance thing first, while giving them bits of info to keep them on my side. Once that culture is freely ingrained, I would bribe Britian and Spain into freeing their colonies(at my discresion, in turn) with some more basic revolutions in weaponry. (Brititish Canada, French Louisiana, and Spanish Florida would probably end up joining with the US anyway) I also give the weapons to France and Germany, so now their all equal (still inferior to the U.S., btw.), while more or less forcing France to adopt a democratic system of government (like they always wanted). Prevent the Reign of Terror, and basically keep France happy.. I'd also more or less let Iron Chancellor conquer all of Germany, then force him to elect a demcoratic, modern system of government, I'd then heavily hit upon the subject of an EU, which I would more or less force them to adopt, (threatening Russian armament if they didn't). I would then try, individually, to prop up the ex-colonies (who btw, are still colonies until i get to them), and try to set up reasonalbe, democratic governments. I would especially arm places like North Africa, who wouldve have to deal with the Ottoman Empire, and with places like Austrailia, well, just because i like them, I would have made them more tolerant (get rid of all this racist crap about aborigionies) though. I also would have (slowly and surely) armed and democrotized China and Japan. Korea would be democrotized, modernized, etc.

So, in the end, we still have a militarily dominant U.S., but one who is more peacful and sensible. Free medical technology is available worldwide, except unfourtunatley in places like the Ottoman Empire, which would be experiencing a revolution at that time. I would also heavily hit upon an AU, and possibly an NAU.


Anyway, thats what I would do if everythign worked out perfectly. But it never does, so somebody would go crazy somewhere.

Umm... why? In case you hadn't noticed, there's still a pretty hefty number of Jews around, and they don't seem to be going anywhere fast. They all have access to exactly the same knowledge as he'd been giving them in this scenario. What makes you think the Jews of two thousand odd years ago would be any more likely to deny their faith because of modern technology than the Jews of today?

The same applies to any religion - we all have modern technology, and there's still an awful lot of us who believe in one god or another, or many gods come to that. Why should that change simply because you'd have our situation at an earlier point in history.

Because religion would be shattered by a massive technological jump in one go, as it'd cause a radical re-thinking of what the world's about. It's different when enlightenment happens slowly, because then religion can change with it. It can't really change as FAST as it would need to here, though.

Because religion would be shattered by a massive technological jump in one go, as it'd cause a radical re-thinking of what the world's about. It's different when enlightenment happens slowly, because then religion can change with it. It can't really change as FAST as it would need to here, though.

That's still a pretty bold statement to make; there've been many massive and sudden leaps in technology and thinking (paradigm shifts I think they're called?) over the years, and religion's always managed to cope (eventually at least). No reason to suppose that, with a little effort, religion wouldn't adjust.

Besides, if we are imparting all this knowledge, would it not be reasonable to assume that we've imparted to the religious the various thinkings that they have adopted to change with technology.

I'd give it to the pagan Celts. But I'd give them a huge amount of green technology, so that the harmful effects of industrialization might be at least a little reduced.

Also, the Roman Legions might find Gaul and lower Britannia a bit more difficult to conquer when facing Celts armed with machine guns...

However, there is more to enlightenment than technology. I'd also impart modern ideas of fairness, human rights, and good stuff like that.

Oooo, what a pretty racist.

You're USian? Then you should know all about preemptive strikes.

Whites perpetrated genocide against my people. Had we killed the ones who came first, we probably would have had enough time to prepare for the next onslaught.

Or what...it's only okay when you do it?

Môniyaw actually means 'European' by the way. But I didn't see any black Europeans raping and pillaging our people.

No, because I will have first gone forwards in time and got hold of a big load of self-defence kit. Also a laser for the EYE OF GOD attack. ;)

Ahh, but that's outside the parameters of the scenario. You're still in line for your spear surgery.

Môniyaw actually means 'European' by the way. But I didn't see any black Europeans raping and pillaging our people.

Theoretically you didn't see any. I hope.

Actually, when I look at it, almost all the scenarios outlined here are essentially transporting the problems today, into the past.

Theoretically you didn't see any. I hope.

I am five hundred years old. My tits are so saggy I actully have them tied like an obi.

A mad scientist/genie/god/whatever has just given you the power to go back in time and "enlighten" a culture at least 1000 years in the past. You will be given the power to bestow upon your choice 1000+ years of accumulated knowledge of math, science, and technology, as well as any other knowledge you wish to convey. The people of the chossen culture will accept and use this knowledge.

Who do you choose and why? What do you expect will happen?

We don't need that power. Just plan a flight to Pakistan, Iran, Sudan, or any one of a dozen 'gardens of Islam' that insist on being mired in the 600s.

I'm not going to get into another religion debate with UB. I'm tired of them. Suffice to say, I don't think rational thought is incompatible with religion. He disagrees.

I'm not going to get into another religion debate with UB. I'm tired of them. Suffice to say, I don't think rational thought is incompatible with religion. He disagrees.

Yes, and such a debate would ruin an otherwise interesting and somewhat original thread.

Or what...it's only okay when you do it?



Who said that it was ever okay?

Who said that it was ever okay?

Yer prez.

I am five hundred years old. My tits are so saggy I actully have them tied like an obi.
:headbang:
thank you for that image Neesika!

Can someone please pour clorox down my ear to wipe that image away... Please!!!

I aim to please.

I would give one of the pre-Columbian civilizations in the Americas the means to sustain and grow so as to develop the technology and epidemiology to defend against Europeans when they arrive.

gotta tell ya. I'm awfully tempted to drop printouts of several newspapers focusing on Civil rights (Racial, Sexual, Orientation, etc...), Religious Intolernace (both towards Religion and from Religion), and Socal Issues (Creationism vs. Evolution, Same Sex marriage, social welfare, etc..) on the laps of the Continental Congress members as they were forming the Constitution and Bill of Rights just to see what changes would be made... if any.

That would be interesting indeed. And don't forget the whole 2nd amendment question.

I would give it to the Americans shortly after the French Revolution ends.

I belive the Revolution falls well before the 1000 cut off. :P

Actually, when I look at it, almost all the scenarios outlined here are essentially transporting the problems today, into the past.

There are a couple of good ones though. The thought of Fiddlebottoms' Neadethals sitting around in an air conditioned cave and eating the mastadon they'd run down in running shoes and blown up with an RPG is quite amusing.

Yes, and such a debate would ruin an otherwise interesting and somewhat original thread.

Indeed. And thanks. :)

Spread the word...from the late 1500s on...
Psssst...nitôtemak, nipâk môniyawak anohc.

(Hey buddies, kill all the whiteys this time.)

good call


as for myself, i'm sorta tempted to just go back to the natufian or pre-pottery neolithic a people in jericho and see if we can have people skip the next 10,000 years of utter suck and all the intervening genocides and general awfulness.

You're USian? Then you should know all about preemptive strikes.

Whites perpetrated genocide against my people. Had we killed the ones who came first, we probably would have had enough time to prepare for the next onslaught.

Or what...it's only okay when you do it?

Môniyaw actually means 'European' by the way. But I didn't see any black Europeans raping and pillaging our people.

"Kill ALL the whiteys". Racist name, check! Genocidal intentions, Check! Yep, still a racist. You would be worse than the settlers if you killed an entire race. All that happened over 200 years ago and from this post I see that you HATE whites, whites who have done nothing to you. Anway if you want the REAL genocidal maniacs talk to the spanish. One last thing mister "I hate whites kill them all", the various indian tribes warred with one another
and slaughtered each other just like any other people. If one of them could have killed or conquered the others they would have.



Edit: And call me a unioner or a statesman it sounds better.

I would have preached the Gospel to the Hebrews.

Yer prez.

My what? I was not aware I had a president.

"Kill ALL the whiteys". Racist name, check! Genocidal intentions, Check! Yep, still a racist. You would be worse than the settlers if you killed an entire race. All that happened over 200 years ago and from this post I see that you HATE whites, whites who have done nothing to you. Anway if you want the REAL genocidal maniacs talk to the spanish. One last thing mister "I hate whites kill them all", the various indian tribes warred with one another
and slaughtered each other just like any other people. If one of them could have killed or conquered the others they would have.



Edit: And call me a unioner or a statesman it sounds better.

The Spanish were white.

And we wouldn't have had the opportunity to kill an entire race. Just the fuckers who came over and tried to immigrate illegally.

My what? I was not aware I had a president.

Ba, yer PM then. He's a right bastard too.

The Spanish were white.

And we wouldn't have had the opportunity to kill an entire race. Just the fuckers who came over and tried to immigrate illegally.

So I guess you don't support the illegal immigrants coming from mexico? Or are you going to be a hypocrite? Do you also feel we should kill them? I know the spanish are technically white but I thought we were refferring to the saxons.

They were technically white, but not really.

Bah they were white.

And we shoulda killed their asses. Maybe their horses too.

Oh yeah, and them.

So I guess you don't support the illegal immigrants comeing from mexico? Or are you going to be a hypocrite. I know the spanish are technically white but I thought we were refferring to the saxons.

Out of a sense of irony, I completely support the hordes of illegals streaming across the US border.

I am a petty, mean-spirited woman.

Out of a sense of irony, I completely support the hordes of illegals streaming across the US border.

Who, incidentally, don't seem bent on conquest and mass slaughter.

Bah they were white.

And we shoulda killed their asses. Maybe their horses too.

Oh yeah, and them.
You can kill the spanish to your hearts content and let the blood thirsty and vicious aztech empire stay, but leave my anglo-saxons alone.

Who, incidentally, don't seem bent on conquest and mass slaughter.

Oh just you wait.

All illegals are the same.

You can kill the spanish to your hearts content and let the blood thirsty and vicious aztech empire stay, but leave my anglo-saxons alone.

No sorry. They have to go.

We were running out of scalps.

\Who, incidentally, don't seem bent on conquest and mass slaughter.

Who, incidentally increase the crime rate wherever they are.

\

Who, incidentally increase the crime rate wherever they are.

Racist.

Who, incidentally increase the crime rate wherever they are.

Even if that were true, it would still miss the point.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/03/illegal_aliens_have_higher_inc.php
Even if that were true, it would still miss the point.

Racist.

I believe you are mistaken, from your earlier posts it is YOU who is the racist.

I believe you are mistaken, from your earlier posts it is YOU who is the racist.

Don't make me scalp you, cracka.

why ,if we did that we have nothing to bitch about what they got wrong now

http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/03/illegal_aliens_have_higher_inc.php

None of which have they shown is attributable to their status as illegal immigrants... not if they're comparing them to the general population, which differs from the body of illegal immigrants in many other respects as well.

Oh just you wait.

While I would have problems with the whole "mass slaughter" thing, I wouldn't really mind if they conquered us.

I'd probably turn traitor and cut a deal--I want a Black republic and queer equality, but other than that.... :)

Don't make me scalp you, cracka.

Is the redskin mad?

A mad scientist/genie/god/whatever has just given you the power to go back in time and "enlighten" a culture at least 1000 years in the past. You will be given the power to bestow upon your choice 1000+ years of accumulated knowledge of math, science, and technology, as well as any other knowledge you wish to convey. The people of the chossen culture will accept and use this knowledge.

Who do you choose and why? What do you expect will happen?

I'd join those other people who would use this opportunity to warn the various indigenous peoples of the North American continent about the impending invasion. The problem is that my own academic studies indicate to me that it was the imposition of European technologies and social structures during that invasion that produced much of the resulting hardship and genocide. Thus, I end up fearing that my attempts to help will only end up producing the same result; sudden and radical social upheaval and reorganization, even if adopted voluntarily, might have drastic unforeseen results for any people or culture.

So, either Novikov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_Paradox#Novikov_self-consistency_principle) is correct, or, in the case of the many-worlds solution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_Paradox#Parallel_universes.2Falternate_timelines), I may be successful in spawning a parallel universe where colonialism and genocide never occurred, but the original time line, and original oppression, will still occur in the original universe.

I assume there's already all kinds of good science fiction on this topic.

And keep Akhenaten from bringing Egypt to its knees, losing the Northern Empire, and all influence in Israel?

Damn right! Got it in one :D

Out of a sense of irony, I completely support the hordes of illegals streaming across the US border.

I am a petty, mean-spirited woman.

Seems like you used to be nicer.

The Irish. Try oppressing us for 800 years when we have automatic weapons and fighter jets. Further, I'd send some diplomats over to the Americas, and Africa. And maybe Australia.

Seems like you used to be nicer.

When?

*snip OP* The people of the chossen culture will accept and use this knowledge.

Who do you choose and why? What do you expect will happen?

How about just leveling the playing-field, by sharing all the existing knowledge of 5000 BCE around every continent and culture.

Then just keep doing that every century or so until your silly rule says we can't any more.

No need to take knowledge back in time (incidentally, robbing investigators and inventors of the fruits of their genius), just go back and work with what was there.

As to the Enlightenment, it will happen when it happens.

The Irish. Try oppressing us for 800 years when we have automatic weapons and fighter jets. Further, I'd send some diplomats over to the Americas, and Africa. And maybe Australia.



When?

Back when she was Sin. I dunno, she seemed like less of a petty, mean-spirited person then.

Back when she was Sin. I dunno, she seemed like less of a petty, mean-spirited person then.

I thought she was always scary and smiting whitey.

I thought she was always scary and smiting whitey.

Maybe my memory is just through rose-tinted glasses. But that would be odd, considering mine never is (I tend to remember the bad times as much if not more than the good).

I'd probably attempt to stop the Byzantine Empire from crapping itself up in the mid 1000s, although I don't think I'd dole out machine guns and rocket launchers to them. Maybe some of the more benign technological advances, such as the medical advances.

Although a few Challenger IIs at Mantzikert would probably even the odds somewhat.

The Irish. Try oppressing us for 800 years when we have automatic weapons and fighter jets.
Yeah, so then your people would almost certainly become the oppressors instead...

Who else here already knew that, during real-world history's Dark Ages & early Medieval times, the Irish were importing people from (various part of) Britain as slaves?

Or Challenger IIs at Hastings in 1066.

Maybe my memory is just through rose-tinted glasses. But that would be odd, considering mine never is (I tend to remember the bad times as much if not more than the good).
Maybe my memory just doesn't go back as far as yours.
Yeah, so then your people would almost certainly become the oppressors instead...
You betcha. The sun never sets on the Irish Empire!

Who else here already knew that, during real-world history's Dark Ages & early Medieval times, the Irish were importing people from (various part of) Britain as slaves?

Not importing, stealing. That's how we got St. Patrick, allegedly.

However, there is more to enlightenment than technology. I'd also impart modern ideas of fairness, human rights, and good stuff like that.

I think this is why you'd have to be careful in what you choose to impart. A lot of the ideas here are how people would do things to change history so we dont wind up where we are now, so perhaps some ideas we wouldn't encourage. For better and for worse, the entirety of the enlightenment brought us where we are.

Some things (ideas, teachings and technology) I would not disclose to my chosen people:

* The Republic
* The Internal Combustion Engine (I would use heat transfer engine or fuel cell though)
* Marxist teachings
* High Individualism
* NGO's
* Large scale private corporations

The catch is in "The people of the chosen culture will accept and use this knowledge." There's no way of making that happen, it's an assumption of self-interest based on "us modern folks did the right thing since the Enlightenment."

HOW exactly will they use that knowledge? Will the skip slavery and sending kids down coal mines? Will they invent nuclear weapons?

It's an almost dystopic proposition. Let's give this body of knowledge and this method of advancing knowledge to some group (tribe, nation, whatever) who neither invented nor discovered it ... and then, by some godmodding, ensure that they use it. Let's, in other words, go back in time and live out the European Ascendency at the expense of that group from the past.

That's abuse. It's time abuse. Let's take their pretty island and make them be us. Bah.

Time machines (a) do not exist, because there is no evidence that they will ever exist, (b) exist, but are heavily regulated for the rest of time, or (c) are forbidden by some higher power (our future selves?) because they give us too much power to do evil.

Of course, I also agree with BSB. Couldn't have said it better myself, definitely can't after that last drink. *staggers*

The catch is in "The people of the chosen culture will accept and use this knowledge." There's no way of making that happen, it's an assumption of self-interest based on "us modern folks did the right thing since the Enlightenment."
Once you blow a few things up with an MBT, I imagine they'd be more than willing to accept what ever you say.

Or Challenger IIs at Hastings in 1066.

That's Time Porn. The deliberate use of disparities over time for our own gratification.

Once you blow a few things up with an MBT, I imagine they'd be more than willing to accept what ever you say.

Hell, you wouldn't even need the guns. Just drive around clanking and blowing out smoke, with Guns 'n' Roses cranked up on the PA.

That's Time Porn. The deliberate use of disparities over time for our own gratification.

*fapfapfapfapfap*

*fapfapfapfapfap*

Well, just to cool you down a bit, consider this: if time machines are ever invented, won't people from the future pwn us big-time?

In fact, perhaps what we know as history is such a collosal cluster-fuck ... because people from the future are tweaking our present ruthlessly for the greater good of the future?

I think this is why you'd have to be careful in what you choose to impart. A lot of the ideas here are how people would do things to change history so we dont wind up where we are now, so perhaps some ideas we wouldn't encourage. For better and for worse, the entirety of the enlightenment brought us where we are.

Some things (ideas, teachings and technology) I would not disclose to my chosen people:

* The Republic
* The Internal Combustion Engine (I would use heat transfer engine or fuel cell though)
* Marxist teachings
* High Individualism
* NGO's
* Large scale private corporations

Ah, but I said good stuff. Not all modern crap.

Ah, but I said good stuff. Not all modern crap.

True. Careful planning would be needed as to what to pass on and what to dump in the waste basket of human screw-ups. It'd be easy to introduce a seemingly innocent idea and the next day, you are in the midst of a social meltdown.

Well, just to cool you down a bit, consider this: if time machines are ever invented, won't people from the future pwn us big-time?

In fact, perhaps what we know as history is such a collosal cluster-fuck ... because people from the future are tweaking our present ruthlessly for the greater good of the future?

Dem time immigrants took ar jawbs!


This was my 20, 000th post? Not bad.

Dem time immigrants took ar jawbs!

Dem cheatin fuuuturists done gave us jawbs!

A mad scientist/genie/god/whatever has just given you the power to go back in time and "enlighten" a culture at least 1000 years in the past. You will be given the power to bestow upon your choice 1000+ years of accumulated knowledge of math, science, and technology, as well as any other knowledge you wish to convey. The people of the chossen culture will accept and use this knowledge.

Who do you choose and why? What do you expect will happen?
Okay, so _

Firstly, there's nothing here about making the time-traveller immortal, so any plans that are based on the traveller continuing to keep those past people in line with his/her plans indefinitely seem to be out.

Secondly, the greater the technological gap between those past people's previous state and the knowledge that you're giving them, the harder it will probably be for them to start using that new technology and the longer it will take them to manage this. You can't just go straight from the Iron Age to building MBTs or jet fighters, for example, even if you have been given the blueprints: You'll need to build the tools to do the job, probably the tools with which to build those tools, and so on...and creating whole new industries from scratch is likely to take considerable time. For that matter, if you're starting with a predominantly-agricultural culture (or, even more so, one in which hunting is still one of the main sources of food), you'll need to improve & build up your agricultural systems first so that you can actually produce enough food to support those industries' workers.
And while you're doing all of that, what are the neighbouring peoples likely to be doing? Copying the advances, or invading to end this "witchcraft", seem like fairly probable answers to me...

Thirdly, the more complex the technology that you're introducing, the wider the range of raw materials that you're likely to need... and your chosen people simply might not have access to some of those substances. (For example: deposits of Sulphur, for gunpowder, are pretty rare outide of volcanic areas; Rubber, for tyres, was originally found only in the American tropics... and then, of course, there's Oil...). This means that you might need to develop new trade routes, possibly having to develop better ship-building industries in the process, and persuade the people who do have access to those materials to produce these & sell them to you -- which might require giving them some advanced technology, too -- or conquer them outright before you've actually built your high-tech weaponry...

Fourthly, the more complex the new technology is, the larger the population that you'll probably need to support all of the industries concerned: Ireland doesn't find it economic to build its own jet fighters today, for example...

So, given those points, I suggest that introducing relatively minor -- but carefully selected -- advances is more likely to work than some of the more grandiose plans that have been suggested here so far.

Okay, so _

Firstly, there's nothing here about making the time-traveller immortal, so any plans that are based on the traveller continuing to keep those past people in line with his/her plans indefinitely seem to be out.

*snip*

Lost it already. But I'm sure yuor future self will be quite fascinated. ;)

So, given those points, I suggest that introducing relatively minor -- but carefully selected -- advances is more likely to work than some of the more grandiose plans that have been suggested here so far.

The scientific method, electricity and possibly the steam engine will go a long way - and are not that difficult to grasp.

Okay, so _

Firstly, there's nothing here about making the time-traveller immortal, so any plans that are based on the traveller continuing to keep those past people in line with his/her plans indefinitely seem to be out.

"Immortal" is confusing in the context. You mean, their "life" will be protected from not-being-born paradox?

That gets hard, because you ultimately have to preserve every part of their future environment so they come out the "same person."

Secondly, the greater the technological gap between those past people's previous state and the knowledge that you're giving them, the harder it will probably be for them to start using that new technology and the longer it will take them to manage this.

Absolutely. And life might be quite distressful for the people who live through this overthrowing of the truths and practices of their upbringing.

Consider: being "forcibly civilized" by an invader. Now imagine, that by the OP's magic "make it so", that you are being forcibly civilized by somebody from outside the history of the known world. Not just your personal memory or knowledge of history, but some force which does not yet exist. And it comes with a game cheat for reality, which makes you learn and use knowledge which it has magically imparted to you.

It's a dystopia! Talk about oppression!

You can't just go straight from the Iron Age to building MBTs or jet fighters, for example, even if you have been given the blueprints: You'll need to build the tools to do the job, probably the tools with which to build those tools, and so on...and creating whole new industries from scratch is likely to take considerable time. For that matter, if you're starting with a predominantly-agricultural culture (or, even more so, one in which hunting is still one of the main sources of food), you'll need to improve & build up your agricultural systems first so that you can actually produce enough food to support those industries' workers.

There's a lot of assumptions of causality between the Enlightenment and jet fighters.

There's also something a bit sick about the idea that with a huge body of knowledge suddenly available, that every person's hand would turn to building jet fighters.

And while you're doing all of that, what are the neighbouring peoples likely to be doing? Copying the advances, or invading to end this "witchcraft", seem like fairly probable answers to me...

Thirdly, the more complex the technology that you're introducing,

If all of the knowledge we have gained over the last millenium amounts to technology, we are in big trouble and should stop empowering ourselves further with technology.

Luckily, I don't believe that is so. Prosperity and stability allow us the luxury of letting people think, and even put some of their ideas into practice by way of experiment. We have learnt so much more in the last millenium than just how to build complex machines (not that I disparage that, it's astounding), and lots of that knowledge is not formal science.

*snip*

I'll snip a big bit, because you mention jet fighters again at each end of it.

So, given those points, I suggest that introducing relatively minor -- but carefully selected -- advances is more likely to work than some of the more grandiose plans that have been suggested here so far.

Well, I agree with that. To be given such a huge opportunity and responsibility, then to blow it all in one experiment is rather like inheriting a million bucks and investing in a party for two thousand on a cruise ship, with hookers.

If people from the future manipulate history, I'm pretty sure it will be a hugely contentious business, very political, and of vital interest to everyone then living. Think "Government, with the power of God" ... hey? :)

Okay, so _

Firstly, there's nothing here about making the time-traveller immortal...
<snip>


All are good points. I considered this in a similar post. Fighter jets are incredibly difficult to build because they require both advanced tools to build (particularly the engines and avionics) and a lot of rare minerals are used in their construction.

However I think people mistake the degree of technological edge needed to defeat an inferior enemy. If the enemy have spears and arrows only, you don't need a MiG-29 and guided to defeat them. A simple automatic firearm and slingshot hurled grenades will still have an overwhelming military advantage, without requiring particularly sophisticated economy overall, especially if you simplified existing designs to have wider tolerances in manufacturing and usage.

There is nothing you can do to ensure people will follow your plans. I think rather than setting yourself up as being in charge (and thus wrecking the culture you set out to defend) a better bet would be to be try to persuade the local elite about what you want to do. That way the chances of the changes you brought being maintained after you are gone (either you return to the present, die, or are killed) are higher.

I agree a few careful advances, and some "ready-to-go" designs would be better. I would go for more advanced metalworking, gunpowder, and basic machinery (pumps, cranes, drills, deep wells, concrete etc) along with concepts of basic sanitation and medicine (particularly antibiotics, antiseptics, anaesthetics). Weaponry aside I think the steam engine would be a major assist that again is straightforward enough that is easy to explain how and why it works. Also since steam power is one basic concept that can be applied to so much else (irrigation for pumps, cranes for construction and logistics, engines for moving goods and people etc).

Not importing, stealing. That's how we got St. Patrick, allegedly.
Several centuries after his time there was also, at least sometimes, an organised export trade through the English port of Bristol...

"Immortal" is confusing in the context. You mean, their "life" will be protected from not-being-born paradox?

That gets hard, because you ultimately have to preserve every part of their future environment so they come out the "same person."
No, I meant "You'd still only have one lifespan, so you can't guarantee what use those people in the past would make of the introduced ideas after you've gone..."

There's a lot of assumptions of causality between the Enlightenment and jet fighters.

There's also something a bit sick about the idea that with a huge body of knowledge suddenly available, that every person's hand would turn to building jet fighters.
The jet fighters -- and the MBTs, too -- were originally somebody else's suggested development: I was pointing out why they might not be the best idea...

Prosperity and stability allow us the luxury of letting people think, and even put some of their ideas into practice by way of experiment. We have learnt so much more in the last millenium than just how to build complex machines (not that I disparage that, it's astounding), and lots of that knowledge is not formal science.
Agreed. But build significantly greater propserity without improving your defences and just what are the neighbouring nations/cultures likely to do? :(

However I think people mistake the degree of technological edge needed to defeat an inferior enemy. If the enemy have spears and arrows only, you don't need a MiG-29 and guided to defeat them. A simple automatic firearm and slingshot hurled grenades will still have an overwhelming military advantage, without requiring particularly sophisticated economy overall, especially if you simplified existing designs to have wider tolerances in manufacturing and usage.
Agreed.

There is nothing you can do to ensure people will follow your plans. I think rather than setting yourself up as being in charge (and thus wrecking the culture you set out to defend) a better bet would be to be try to persuade the local elite about what you want to do. That way the chances of the changes you brought being maintained after you are gone (either you return to the present, die, or are killed) are higher.
Agreed.

I would go for more advanced metalworking, gunpowder, and basic machinery (pumps, cranes, drills, deep wells, concrete etc) along with concepts of basic sanitation and medicine (particularly antibiotics, antiseptics, anaesthetics). Weaponry aside I think the steam engine would be a major assist that again is straightforward enough that is easy to explain how and why it works. Also since steam power is one basic concept that can be applied to so much else (irrigation for pumps, cranes for construction and logistics, engines for moving goods and people etc).
Basically agreed, although -- especially given the Sulphur supply problem -- I'm not sure that gunpowder would be the way to go for weaponry: If we're talking about "at least 1'000 years ago" then simply introducing the 'English'/'Welsh' longbow, pikes or halberds/bills, and the tactics for combining their use should be reasonably effective... at least for land battles.
I suppose cannon might be useful at at sea & in sieges, though. H'mm, I'll think further about this point.

Germ theory; How to solve deficiency diseases such as Scurvy and Rickets; Innoculation against Smallpox (requires Cowpox, so the Native Americans would still be out of luck...); Obstetric tongs; keeping food & drink out of contact with Lead; Arrow-drawing 'spoons'.
Watermills ('overshot', even if they've already got the 'undershot' ones) & windmills; the trip-hammer (which uses mill-power to work iron); saw-mills; a reliable method for producing steel; the 'optical telegraph'.
The three-field system; Turnips, & other 'winter' crops; the seed-drill, the moldboard plough (if they haven't already got it), and harvesting machines; the horse collar... and, of course, stirrups (& proper saddles) if they haven't already got those.
Improved methods of ship-building & rigging; the use of rudders rather than 'steering oars'; sheathing wooden ships with Copper for protection against fouling; watertight compartments; signal-flag codes; magnetic compass, chronometer, sextant, and the associated methods for navigation.
The Theodolite.
The modern ('Western') system of 'Arabic' numerals, and mathematics based on them, rather than continued use of the Roman ones; Logarithms; Calculus.

Oh, and _
Saxophones; various other "modern" (but non-electronic) musical instruments; Baroque & Classical musical forms; Jazz & Swing. :)

And not forgetting the bra... ;)

Back when she was Sin. I dunno, she seemed like less of a petty, mean-spirited person then.

I thought she was always scary and smiting whitey.

Argh.

Do you really think that petty, mean-spirited people are aware that they are petty and mean-spirited?

My sarcasm was subtle as a jackhammer and it still was misconstrued. You have destroyed what little faith I had left.

The catch is in "The people of the chosen culture will accept and use this knowledge." There's no way of making that happen, it's an assumption of self-interest based on "us modern folks did the right thing since the Enlightenment."

Indeed it was the catch. I included that catch because I know most peoples would reject such knowledge.

I'll point out that the question posed re expectations ("What do you expect will happen?") implied that things might not go as expected. Actually I expect anyone giving such knowledge would be mightily suprised at the results.

HOW exactly will they use that knowledge? Will the skip slavery and sending kids down coal mines? Will they invent nuclear weapons?

It's an almost dystopic proposition. Let's give this body of knowledge and this method of advancing knowledge to some group (tribe, nation, whatever) who neither invented nor discovered it ... and then, by some godmodding, ensure that they use it. Let's, in other words, go back in time and live out the European Ascendency at the expense of that group from the past.

Yep, never said it wasn't a godmod. In fact, I worded the OP to make it a godmod. :)

"A mad scientist/genie/god/whatever has just given you the power..."

If that's not a godmod, I'm hard pressed to think what might be...

That's abuse. It's time abuse. Let's take their pretty island and make them be us. Bah.
Time machines (a) do not exist, because there is no evidence that they will ever exist, (b) exist, but are heavily regulated for the rest of time, or (c) are forbidden by some higher power (our future selves?) because they give us too much power to do evil.

Of course, I also agree with BSB. Couldn't have said it better myself, definitely can't after that last drink. *staggers*

Again, I didn't say it was a real possibility. Hypothetical questions =/= reality... :P

Neesika et al, please take the racist arguments elsewhere... :mad:

Well, you could always go back to the time of the Neanderthals and load them up with some proper technology...

We were running out of scalps.

you know... there are shampoos that you can use... :p

Well, you could always go back to the time of the Neanderthals and load them up with some proper technology...

screw the Neanderthals... Modern Veterinary Medicine for the Dinosaurs!

as for myself, i'm sorta tempted to just go back to the natufian or pre-pottery neolithic a people in jericho and see if we can have people skip the next 10,000 years of utter suck and all the intervening genocides and general awfulness.

too obscure?

Umayyad Caliphate around 700 AD.

What will happen now... ummm a worldwide argument with tactical weapons about Hussein, Ali and who's the Caliph to follow these days.

I assume this one has been mentioned, but I'd probably pick some native Amerind culture. Either the Olmec, Maya, pre-Incan Quechua, Aymara, Cherokee, or maybe the Marajoara culture. They'd still be hit pretty bad by western diseases, but they'd still have a far better chance than they did in the OT.

Well, you could always go back to the time of the Neanderthals and load them up with some proper technology...

I like it!

The human race could actually have company of a sort. With judicious manipulation of the past we could breed them up to be Equal but Different. Perhaps we could even interbreed. Woo!

screw the Neanderthals... Modern Veterinary Medicine for the Dinosaurs!

Here's a set of cramp-ons and a rope, for climbing dinosaurs. That big gun over there is your TDC, tranquillizer dart cannon. And here's a scuba kit and a chainsaw, in case you need to do internal surgery.

Now go back and care for those dino patients. And thank your lucky stars you didn't go into dentistry!

I dunno about giving all modern tech & science, but according to Wikipedia, there's a theory that Leif Ericson's settlers messed up a meeting with native americans by serving them milk, not knowing that they were lactose intolerant. It'd be interesting to see what'd happen if Ericson was warned about this.

Argh.

Do you really think that petty, mean-spirited people are aware that they are petty and mean-spirited?

My sarcasm was subtle as a jackhammer and it still was misconstrued. You have destroyed what little faith I had left.

Sorry. I seem to do that destroying of faith thing pretty often.

Sometimes petty, mean-spirited people are aware they're petty and mean-spirited. Like me.

Here's a set of cramp-ons and a rope, for climbing dinosaurs. That big gun over there is your TDC, tranquillizer dart cannon. And here's a scuba kit and a chainsaw, in case you need to do internal surgery.

Now go back and care for those dino patients. And thank your lucky stars you didn't go into dentistry!

Just imagine the suppository! :eek:

screw the Neanderthals...
Ew. All that body hair and animal hide clothing, and I doubt they bathed very often. No, I'd much rather give them rocket launchers and watch them wipe out my ancestors.

Ew. All that body hair and animal hide clothing, and I doubt they bathed very often. No, I'd much rather give them rocket launchers and watch them wipe out my ancestors.

I'll just unfold a deck-chair and join you for that. Beer?

You know, we could take bets on which human is really our ancestor. If one of us disappears before the other, the survivor can call the bet off, and in any case gets the rest of the beer. Fair?

Watch out for that little one with the RPG. I think she's learning to aim the thing!

A mad scientist/genie/god/whatever has just given you the power to go back in time and "enlighten" a culture at least 1000 years in the past. You will be given the power to bestow upon your choice 1000+ years of accumulated knowledge of math, science, and technology, as well as any other knowledge you wish to convey. The people of the chossen culture will accept and use this knowledge.

Who do you choose and why? What do you expect will happen?

I would choose Ptolemaic Egypt. Why? I suppose it would be interesting to see Cleopatra beat off the Roman Empire, and it would be quite funny to have steamers fighting at the Battle of Actium. What I would expect to happen is that with their knowledge of modern weaponry that they would take over the Roman Empire and it would be somewhat similar to what modern life is like. It would have been nice for them to freeze it in the 1930s though; steam trains running through the Roman Empire and boarding a tram to get to the Library of Alexandria....

Y'know, kneejerk response is to just give it to whatever predominant Muslim nation exists at the time. Back in the day, they were the biggest innovators and scientists, and not only would they have had the intelligence to understand the enlightenment to the fullest degree, they would have improved on it too. Imagine where we'd be today...

Y'know, kneejerk response is to just give it to whatever predominant Muslim nation exists at the time.

You mean pre-muslim Arab nation. While Islam originally was a very efficient binding factor it also severely hurt the Arab culture of innovation.

You mean pre-muslim Arab nation. While Islam originally was a very efficient binding factor it also severely hurt the Arab culture of innovation.

Sources please.

I thought Corduba at the hands of the Ummayad Caliphate was the New York of it's time.

Okay, so _

Hmmm... I seem to haved missed this one on Friday, and it is a good 'un.

Firstly, there's nothing here about making the time-traveller immortal, so any plans that are based on the traveller continuing to keep those past people in line with his/her plans indefinitely seem to be out.

My original intent was simply the giving of kowledge. Others have made plans. I was simply thinking of "OK here you go, here's 1000+ years of accumulated information. Do what you want with it.", so there's no need to stick around even, unless answerers want to. :)

Secondly, the greater the technological gap between those past people's previous state and the knowledge that you're giving them, the harder it will probably be for them to start using that new technology and the longer it will take them to manage this. You can't just go straight from the Iron Age to building MBTs or jet fighters, for example, even if you have been given the blueprints: You'll need to build the tools to do the job, probably the tools with which to build those tools, and so on...and creating whole new industries from scratch is likely to take considerable time. For that matter, if you're starting with a predominantly-agricultural culture (or, even more so, one in which hunting is still one of the main sources of food), you'll need to improve & build up your agricultural systems first so that you can actually produce enough food to support those industries' workers.
And while you're doing all of that, what are the neighbouring peoples likely to be doing? Copying the advances, or invading to end this "witchcraft", seem like fairly probable answers to me...

Indeed.

Thirdly, the more complex the technology that you're introducing, the wider the range of raw materials that you're likely to need... and your chosen people simply might not have access to some of those substances. (For example: deposits of Sulphur, for gunpowder, are pretty rare outide of volcanic areas; Rubber, for tyres, was originally found only in the American tropics... and then, of course, there's Oil...). This means that you might need to develop new trade routes, possibly having to develop better ship-building industries in the process, and persuade the people who do have access to those materials to produce these & sell them to you -- which might require giving them some advanced technology, too -- or conquer them outright before you've actually built your high-tech weaponry...

One solution here is to leapfrog certain technological steps. For example, why not skip gunpowder and go straight to the earliest smokless powder, which can be made with more commonly available materials. (Urine->ammonia->nitric acid->cellulose nitrite)

A lot of alternate means exist - . :)

Fourthly, the more complex the new technology is, the larger the population that you'll probably need to support all of the industries concerned: Ireland doesn't find it economic to build its own jet fighters today, for example...

Indeed.

So, given those points, I suggest that introducing relatively minor -- but carefully selected -- advances is more likely to work than some of the more grandiose plans that have been suggested here so far.

Sounds like the most well thought out plan here. Well done.

Ba, yer PM then. He's a right bastard too.

He is, however I don't recall him saying that it was right.. or even okay.

A mad scientist/genie/god/whatever has just given you the power to go back in time and "enlighten" a culture at least 1000 years in the past. You will be given the power to bestow upon your choice 1000+ years of accumulated knowledge of math, science, and technology, as well as any other knowledge you wish to convey. The people of the chossen culture will accept and use this knowledge.

Who do you choose and why? What do you expect will happen?

Nice thread idea. *bows*

Nice thread idea. *bows*

Why thank you. :)

Let's see:
I'd show Jesus an episode of the 700 club and videotape him breaking into tears, and then post it on Youtube in our timeline.
I'd try to convince Mohammed to not put some stuff in the Koran, and if he still insists, I'd spill some ink on his manuscript.
I'd give guns to a few Indian tribes and tell the Aztecs that Cortez is not Quetzalcoatl, even if he does have cannons.
I'd tell the Incans that no matter how much ransom they pay, they're not going to get their king back.
I'd go back to Europe and tell Pope Urban that the Crusades will fail, that they'll destroy Constantinople, and that if he doesn't start them, he might have a chance at just bartering the Holy Land from the Muslims and avoiding 1000+ years of Christian-Muslim hate.
I'd go visit the Constitutional Convention and tell them all how it's eventually going to work out.
In fact, I think I'd go back to the actual Enlightment and congratulate them.
Oh, and I'd tell the French revolutionaries to not have anything to do with Robespierre if they value their lives.
Same with the Communists and Stalin, with the additional advice that if they set up a one party dictatorship, it'll kill communism forever.

Hmmm... I seem to haved missed this one on Friday, and it is a good 'un.
Thank you. :)

One solution here is to leapfrog certain technological steps. For example, why not skip gunpowder and go straight to the earliest smokless powder, which can be made with more commonly available materials. (Urine->ammonia->nitric acid->cellulose nitrite)
Doesn't the nitration process actually also require the presence of Sulphuric Acid (which is made using Sulphur) too?
But I agree, there are some cases in which leapfrogging particular steps would work: for [another] example, cultures without adequate access to supplies of 'mineral' Oil could go straight to running vehicles on Bio-diesel...

Thank you. :)

:)

Doesn't the nitration process actually also require the presence of Sulphuric Acid (which is made using Sulphur) too?

The original formulation was simply applying nitric acid to wood or cotton cellulose. The sulphuric acid does make a more stable product.

I do know that there are other propellants that don't rely on sulpher. There was a company that produced a fructose black powder substitute, for example.

The Enlightener who plans on the enlightened society making specific good use of their new knowledge, as opposed to simply bestowing a general knowledge base, will certainly need to plan carefully. The advantage of the simple "here you go" gift of full knowledge (which, while "breaking the rules", no more breaks the rules than the whole time travel premise ;)) is that you can assume the enlightened will now know enough to pick and choose the knowledge based solutions that work in the circusmstances which the Enlightener may not understand.

But I agree, there are some cases in which leapfrogging particular steps would work: for [another] example, cultures without adequate access to supplies of 'mineral' Oil could go straight to running vehicles on Bio-diesel...

That's one I was thinking of. Ethanol, methane and other bio-fuels could work as well.

Well any time? :eek:
Well one option is to annihilate all human life before christ, then go to present day and see what would have happened, would global warming be as bad.
Or i could go back many thousands of years and found out if there is a link between humans and apes and bring it back.
Or well the options are limitless but calculating the results would be near impossible unless you leave things as they are.:headbang:

I suppose my favourite would be about 400-500bc roughly, and tell all the greek philosophers to shut up about it, we still have no idea about things we can't see (there are exceptions to this, but not many), that yes they would be famous and help democracy (demos-people, Kratos-strength), but did they have any plans they hadn't written down anywhere? or lost because frankly there isn't democracy in this world, just different hairstyles, clothes and varying degrees of military/monetary power.:upyours:

Maybe i would bring a video of all the carnage that would be fought for the glory of "god", and show jesus and ask him "do you really think it's necessary to be the martyr of so much hatred? or are you taking any drugs? can i have some?".:sniper:

Or use some pictures and show the romans just how "mighty" their empire would be, and ask "is all this really important to you?" every pain they inflicted has been increased tenfold maybe more over the years and they didn't help, oh yes they introduced; roads, irrigation, aqueducts, Christianity, military organisation that dwarfed most other nations, latin (for all the aristocratic snobs who want to know it), also mass slaughter of innocents, torture of many (see Jesus), dictatorship government that oppressed the nations conquered by it, spreading of the gene pool (through consented sex or not), crushed many old tribes culture, huge battles, all for the glory for some fat aristocrats in Rome. :gundge:

I think in summing this up introducing anything to a species that manipulates anything to it's highest possibility just because it can would be dangerous.
I suppose if i introduced proper hygiene and sanitation before the black plague that could help, but would that just allow more people to live to destroy each other? (i realise i'm painting a narrow picture of humanity, but i don't think it was ever a good idea for human beings to exist, if there was a god he must be a pretty malicious one to create humans).:rolleyes:

Sorry i went off on a tangent there, to sum up i doubt even if i talked people into any changes they'd think i was mad. I suppose leave a few books on moral ethics (kantian, utilitarian magna carta, human rights etc) i could help some governments a bit.:cool:
I suppose the key would be to leave knowledge for them to use to realise their mistakes and "how to avoid war". :(