NationStates Jolt Archive

I keep noticing on NSG people saying things that imply some people in the US don't think Catholics are Christians; for example in the thread on becoming President someone says something along the lines of "there is nothing Christians fear more than Catholics and we elected one as President"

Now I have never heard of this idea in the UK, or in fact anywhere other than NSG - is it a common in the US?

Where on earth does it come from?

Primarily from Jack Chick. In a number of his eponymous tracts he claims that Catholics are not Christians, because they worship the saints and Mary. This is, naturally, a lie, but one that especially.....devout Christians of other denominations would be ok with going along with.

It comes from retarded protestant fundamentalists. Sometimes of the "non-denominational" stripe. Some of them think they have been "born again," while others were that stupid from the start.

There seems to be a higher percentage of these morons in the south.

I heard it in a Presbyterian church in Australia when I was a kid. The argument was that the Bible said not to worship idols, and Catholics worshipped idols.

I told that to my cousins and we all yelled it to the Lawtons who lived down the road, and they beat us up. They said they could beat us because they'd had First Communion and God was inside them and made them stronger.

The Lawtons were very skilled theologians. They convinced us we'd been misinformed. Since it had been a visiting minister from Scotland who said it, they explained that he was just a Pommy and didn't know any better. Then we had another fight about whether the Scots were Pommies.

Ah, those happy days of unremitting religious and political controversy. No wonder NSG feels so much like home.

I heard it in a Presbyterian church in Australia when I was a kid. The argument was that the Bible said not to worship idols, and Catholics worshipped idols.

I told that to my cousins and we all yelled it to the Lawtons who lived down the road, and they beat us up. They said they could beat us because they'd had First Communion and God was inside them and made them stronger.

The Lawtons were very skilled theologians. They convinced us we'd been misinformed. Since it had been a visiting minister from Scotland who said it, they explained that he was just a Pommy and didn't know any better. Then we had another fight about whether the Scots were Pommies.

Ah, those happy days of unremitting religious and political controversy. No wonder NSG feels so much like home.

The Scots are not Pommies, damn it!
*punches*

The Scots are not Pommies, damn it!
*punches*

That's what we said! See, if you'd been there we'd have won!

Where on earth does it come from?

It is quite common and probably originates with the protestants. Main reasons ? Rivalry and the Catholics being numerous, powerful and influential - though less so in the last century.

Some ideological justification - the whole structure of the Catholic church, the praise for Mary and the whole saint thing - does exist for the claim though.

Now I have never heard of this idea in the UK, or in fact anywhere other than NSG - is it a common in the US?
My friend's a Catholic and he's adamant that Catholics aren't Christians, but Catholics. But then he's misinformed about a lot of things.

That's what we said! See, if you'd been there we'd have won!
We should make a time machine and go back and pwn those silly catholics!

I heard it in a Presbyterian church in Australia when I was a kid. The argument was that the Bible said not to worship idols, and Catholics worshipped idols.

I told that to my cousins and we all yelled it to the Lawtons who lived down the road, and they beat us up. They said they could beat us because they'd had First Communion and God was inside them and made them stronger.

The Lawtons were very skilled theologians. They convinced us we'd been misinformed. Since it had been a visiting minister from Scotland who said it, they explained that he was just a Pommy and didn't know any better. Then we had another fight about whether the Scots were Pommies.

Ah, those happy days of unremitting religious and political controversy. No wonder NSG feels so much like home.

Hilarious!

Nowdays of course, the Lawtons wouldn't have the pleasure of beating up Presbyterians. They'd be obliged to call the police ... boooring.

Ya gotta remember, the whole reason for the Reformation was the feeling that Catholicism had lost its way and had strayed from being a real Church of God.

The fact that there are idiots who currently espouse this just proves that they really are living a couple hundred years back from the rest of us.

There seems to be a higher percentage of these morons in the south.

I once told my Baptist in laws that if it wasn't for Catholics, they would have never heard of Christ. They would probably be worshiping a stick in a field somewhere.

I once told my Baptist in laws that if it wasn't for Catholics, they would have never heard of Christ. They would probably be worshiping a stick in a field somewhere.

Hey man, don't knock the stick in the field.

My friend's a Catholic and he's adamant that Catholics aren't Christians, but Catholics. But then he's misinformed about a lot of things.

Your friend is wrong.

All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholic. This was taught to me several times through out Catholic School.

It's a way for some people to self-validate.

I heard it in a Presbyterian church in Australia when I was a kid. The argument was that the Bible said not to worship idols, and Catholics worshipped idols.

I told that to my cousins and we all yelled it to the Lawtons who lived down the road, and they beat us up. They said they could beat us because they'd had First Communion and God was inside them and made them stronger.

The Lawtons were very skilled theologians. They convinced us we'd been misinformed. Since it had been a visiting minister from Scotland who said it, they explained that he was just a Pommy and didn't know any better. Then we had another fight about whether the Scots were Pommies.

Ah, those happy days of unremitting religious and political controversy. No wonder NSG feels so much like home.

I like you, you write really well and are funny. Even if you do come from a country that doesn't exist.

Now I have never heard of this idea in the UK, or in fact anywhere other than NSG - is it a common in the US?

Where on earth does it come from?

It's actually quite common here in the UK, ask a few "happy - clappy" type christians

I like you, you write really well and are funny. Even if you do come from a country that doesn't exist.

She's really an overweight American man. All wimminz on the interwebs are.

I heard it in a Presbyterian church in Australia when I was a kid. The argument was that the Bible said not to worship idols, and Catholics worshipped idols.

I told that to my cousins and we all yelled it to the Lawtons who lived down the road, and they beat us up. They said they could beat us because they'd had First Communion and God was inside them and made them stronger.

The Lawtons were very skilled theologians. They convinced us we'd been misinformed. Since it had been a visiting minister from Scotland who said it, they explained that he was just a Pommy and didn't know any better. Then we had another fight about whether the Scots were Pommies.

Ah, those happy days of unremitting religious and political controversy. No wonder NSG feels so much like home.


great story. i read it outloud to my son and he laughed too.

ahhh too bad we dont all have such excellent schools of theology to learn from.

I keep noticing on NSG people saying things that imply some people in the US don't think Catholics are Christians; for example in the thread on becoming President someone says something along the lines of "there is nothing Christians fear more than Catholics and we elected one as President"

Now I have never heard of this idea in the UK, or in fact anywhere other than NSG - is it a common in the US?

Where on earth does it come from?

Ignorance of many things, including the fact that, one way or another, all Christian churches (except the Orthodox Churches) are descended from the Catholic Church. The four books of the Gospel were chosen by the Catholic Church. Whatever aspects of liturgy and practice are accepted or denied were originally Catholic. It's a profound disrespect, bordering on elder abuse, for the parent of all Western European Christianity.

It's somewhat like the massive rebellion teenagers go through, when they deny that their parents ever knew anything and are, possibly, the sum of all that's evil in the world. The difference is that teenagers outgrow it.

I keep noticing on NSG people saying things that imply some people in the US don't think Catholics are Christians; for example in the thread on becoming President someone says something along the lines of "there is nothing Christians fear more than Catholics and we elected one as President"

Now I have never heard of this idea in the UK, or in fact anywhere other than NSG - is it a common in the US?

Where on earth does it come from?

Most of the USA Protestants don't consider Catholics Christians. US Catholics consider themselves Christians. It stems from the Protestant missionaries claiming that the Catholics worship Mary and include her as God's wife and mother which makes them "pagan".

Usually, such ignorance comes from the Evangelists.

I keep noticing on NSG people saying things that imply some people in the US don't think Catholics are Christians; for example in the thread on becoming President someone says something along the lines of "there is nothing Christians fear more than Catholics and we elected one as President"

Now I have never heard of this idea in the UK, or in fact anywhere other than NSG - is it a common in the US?

Where on earth does it come from?

One of my best friends continues to assert this, despite effort on our parts (despite not being Catholic, their Christian...ness... is patently obvious to us) to explain the reality of it to her.

Ignorance of many things, including the fact that, one way or another, all Christian churches (except the Orthodox Churches) are descended from the Catholic Church. The four books of the Gospel were chosen by the Catholic Church. Whatever aspects of liturgy and practice are accepted or denied were originally Catholic. It's a profound disrespect, bordering on elder abuse, for the parent of all Western European Christianity.

It's somewhat like the massive rebellion teenagers go through, when they deny that their parents ever knew anything and are, possibly, the sum of all that's evil in the world. The difference is that teenagers outgrow it.

Which ties into the development of religions over time that I went through in a thread a few weeks back. Evangelical Protestant Christianity is going through its angsty teen phase.

I keep noticing on NSG people saying things that imply some people in the US don't think Catholics are Christians; for example in the thread on becoming President someone says something along the lines of "there is nothing Christians fear more than Catholics and we elected one as President"

Now I have never heard of this idea in the UK, or in fact anywhere other than NSG - is it a common in the US?

Where on earth does it come from?

It's nothing new, an entire realm of protestatism at one time considered Catholicism not "Christian"... In fact some equated the Pope to the Antichrist... Some have grown out of it, some haven't, and some have rebirthed it.

She's really an overweight American man. All wimminz on the interwebs are.

Well I suppose that is fair as I am really a really hot 18 year old woman who pretends to be a balding middle aged man online.:D

Okay, as a former (for all intents and purposes) Catholic who nevertheless feels some loyalty to his upbringing, let me clear up a few things.

Catholic = Christian
Christian does not necessarily = Catholic
Christian = Many Things
Catholic = One Thing

And Catholics do not worship anything but the Lord (Which also can mean many things: The Holy Trinity being but one). Catholics revere the mother of God, Mary. Catholics revere the saints as men and women of the Lord.

And I'm not even going to touch the Papacy and the Pope because it's gotten so confusing that I've largely given up.

I do not see why so many protestants (of the extreme variety, mynd yoo) feel the need to continue this needless rivalry, especially since the Catholic church put it behind them after Vatican II.

I keep noticing on NSG people saying things that imply some people in the US don't think Catholics are Christians; for example in the thread on becoming President someone says something along the lines of "there is nothing Christians fear more than Catholics and we elected one as President"

Now I have never heard of this idea in the UK, or in fact anywhere other than NSG - is it a common in the US?

Where on earth does it come from?Jack Chick and other prominent radical evangelicals.

Okay, as a former (for all intents and purposes) Catholic who nevertheless feels some loyalty to his upbringing, let me clear up a few things.

Catholic = Christian
Christian does not necessarily = Catholic
Christian = Many Things
Catholic = One ThingI know I'm nitpicking, but "=" means "A is B and vice versa" and would therefore be inappropriate in this case...

I know I'm nitpicking, but "=" means "A is B and vice versa" and would therefore be inappropriate in this case...

This suddenly makes me wonder how to represent that. You'd probably need to resort to set notation.

Jack Chick and other prominent radical evangelicals.

I often tear my hair out when decided whether to shove a spurred boot up Jack Chick's ass, Pat Robinson's ass, or get out the big 'uns and shove them up Jerry Falwell's massive ass.

Luckily, my God made my life a little easier by killing off Jerry Falwell.

This suddenly makes me wonder how to represent that. You'd probably need to resort to set notation.Yeah. Or just use the English language. :p

I know I'm nitpicking, but "=" means "A is B and vice versa" and would therefore be inappropriate in this case...

*sigh*

Okay, fascist.

Catholics are Christian.
Christians are not all Catholics.
Christians are many things.
Catholics are one thing.

Are we happy now? Are you happy now that you've utterly destroyed my argument and ruined my self-esteem!?

Are we happy now? Are you happy now that you've utterly destroyed my argument and ruined my self-esteem!?Should be "?!"... :p

I'm sorry... :(

Yeah. Or just use the English language. :p

Well, yeah, but who does that these days?

Well, yeah, but who does that these days?The internet is a terrible place indeed...

The internet is a terrible place indeed...

:D

Catholic ⊂ Christian
Christian ⊃ Catholic
Christian = {Catholic, Protestant, ... Orthodox}
Catholic = Catholic

Grr...I can't put in a triple line for "defined as." Just the double line for "is equivalent to."

Should be "?!"... :p

I'm sorry... :(

KHAAAAAAAAAN!!!

:D

Catholic ⊂ Christian
Christian ⊃ Catholic
Christian = {Catholic, Protestant, ... Orthodox}
Catholic = Catholic

Grr...I can't put in a triple line for "defined as." Just the double line for "is equivalent to."

...No one upstages Bolol...no one...

But yeah...set notation FTW! :)

KHAAAAAAAAAN!!!



...No one upstages Bolol...no one...

Consider yourself upstaged. :D

I once told my Baptist in laws that if it wasn't for Catholics, they would have never heard of Christ. They would probably be worshiping a stick in a field somewhere.

They still are. It's just a really big stick with a guy on it.

Usually, [...] ignorance comes from the Evangelists.

Funny how that works, huh?

They still are. It's just a really big stick with a guy on it.

Nah, it's two really big sticks nailed together, with a guy nailed to the smaller of said sticks. :p

I keep noticing on NSG people saying things that imply some people in the US don't think Catholics are Christians; for example in the thread on becoming President someone says something along the lines of "there is nothing Christians fear more than Catholics and we elected one as President"

Now I have never heard of this idea in the UK, or in fact anywhere other than NSG - is it a common in the US?

Where on earth does it come from?

Southern Baptist. Southern Baptist thinks that Catholicism is a cult, that Catholics worship Mary, the Saints, and that Catholic murder babies and eat the heart of virgins. They claim that they got this from the Bible in the Book of Revelation where they talk about the Whore of Babylon. Apparently the Whore of Babylon is the Vatican.

Outside of Baptist circle, I really haven't seen anyone else make the connection between the Whore of Babylon and the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church.

Baptist and Southern Baptist are idiots, 'nuff said.

Southern Baptist. Southern Baptist thinks that Catholicism is a cult, that Catholics worship Mary, the Saints, and that Catholic murder babies and eat the heart of virgins. They claim that they got this from the Bible in the Book of Revelation where they talk about the Whore of Babylon. Apparently the Whore of Babylon is the Vatican.

Outside of Baptist circle, I really haven't seen anyone else make the connection between the Whore of Babylon and the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church.

Baptist and Southern Baptist are idiots, 'nuff said.

Funny. I went to a Southern Baptist church for years and never heard anything like that. Of course, that church was probably way too focused on abortion and teh gays to bother with Catholicism.

Southern Baptist. Southern Baptist thinks that Catholicism is a cult, that Catholics worship Mary, the Saints, and that Catholic murder babies and eat the heart of virgins. They claim that they got this from the Bible in the Book of Revelation where they talk about the Whore of Babylon. Apparently the Whore of Babylon is the Vatican.

Outside of Baptist circle, I really haven't seen anyone else make the connection between the Whore of Babylon and the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church.

Baptist and Southern Baptist are idiots, 'nuff said.

I'm certain it's not ALL malicious. I'm pretty sure a lot of misconceptions can be cleared up through education.

There are those who will listen...but unfortunately you can't educate the willfully ignorant and/or bigots.

Funny. I went to a Southern Baptist church for years and never heard anything like that. Of course, that church was probably way too focused on abortion and teh gays to bother with Catholicism.

Yea, I really doubt my current relationship is going to last, because even though my gf doesn't mind that I'm Catholic, her family does, and her entire family is Southern Baptist, and sooner or later, I know I'm just going to explode on them on this subject and just tell everyone of her family members off and finally say "But I forgive you for your misconception of my church" because that's what Catholics do.

Ahh Christmas is going to be fun!

Yea, I really doubt my current relationship is going to last, because even though my gf doesn't mind that I'm Catholic, her family does, and her entire family is Southern Baptist, and sooner or later, I know I'm just going to explode on them on this subject and just tell everyone of her family members off and finally say "But I forgive you for your misconception of my church" because that's what Catholics do.

Ahh Christmas is going to be fun!

You're not alone so don't feel too badly. My sister became a bornagain and for a time would regularly go after our mom for being Catholic, and me for being Mormon.

I remember once she was up for a visit and was telling the story of how while they were on the way up, they stopped at a rest stop on the highway and encountered a bug carrying nuns. When she bumped into a couple of them on the way out of the bathroom she startes 'witnessing' to them. She was actually bragging about harassing people over their religion.

Now, I'm no longer Catholic myself, but I couldn't help but be outraged not only for our mom's sake, who was standing right there during the telling of this tale, but also because, whetever one may think of Catholicism or the Church, nuns are people who have devoted their entire lives to something greater and nobler than themselves. That deserves a LOT of respect.

You're not alone so don't feel too badly. My sister became a bornagain and for a time would regularly go after our mom for being Catholic, and me for being Mormon.

I remember once she was up for a visit and was telling the story of how while they were on the way up, they stopped at a rest stop on the highway and encountered a bug carrying nuns. When she bumped into a couple of them on the way out of the bathroom she startes 'witnessing' to them. She was actually bragging about harassing people over their religion.

Now, I'm no longer Catholic myself, but I couldn't help but be outraged not only for our mom's sake, who was standing right there during the telling of this tale, but also because, whetever one may think of Catholicism or the Church, nuns are people who have devoted their entire lives to something greater and nobler than themselves. That deserves a LOT of respect.

You and I may have a lot in common. I don't really consider myself a Catholic anymore (a lot of disagreements with how the church leadership handles the real world), but partially due to my upbringing I have a great deal of respect for some priests and nuns.

But regardless. If Born Agains feel they have some sort of higher moral standards, why do they reduce themselves to something like this?

You and I may have a lot in common. I don't really consider myself a Catholic anymore (a lot of disagreements with how the church leadership handles the real world), but partially due to my upbringing I have a great deal of respect for some priests and nuns.

But regardless. If Born Agains feel they have some sort of higher moral standards, why do they reduce themselves to something like this?

How true. I've always believed that it's a form of self-validation... If you can bully people into believing what you do, then you MUST be right... right?

Some of the finest people I've ever known have been Catholic priests and nuns. They have given up EVERYTHING... career, family, wealth, etc to give their life to God and serve the people. How can that possibly be a bad thing?

As I look back over my life there are two examples of people who have truly been Christians to me at a time when I needed it. One was a Catholic Priest.

When I was around 12, my parents divorced. Since I went to a Catholic school at the time and since divorce is relatively rare in the Catholic community, not many of my friends or teachers really knew how to talk to me or how to help, so mostly they avoided the topic or kept their distance. I felt incredibly alone.

One day we were attending our regularly scheduled Confession sessions. Normally we sat in the confessional with the priest behind a screen like you always seein the movies, but this time it was different in that we sat facing each other in a normal room. I listed my sins, and one of them was having missed Mass every single Sunday. The priest asked me why I had been missing Church. I said it was because my dad (whom I lived with) wasn't taking me. He asked why my mom didn't. I explained that I didn't live with her. It was at that point he realized my situation. He looked at me with compassion... something I rarely seemed to get in those days, and talking about the whole thing kinda hit me hard and I began to cry. He have me a fatherly hug and a kiss, which, to this day, makes me feel better when I think back on it. He then offered me some words of comfort, and I finished my confession and was on my way. That was more than anybody had done for me, and it left me feeling very grateful for him and other like him.

He passed away the following year.

So.. no, I'm not Catholic anymore. I converted to the Mormon church a few years ago, but I will never forget that moment of kindness that I needed from a man who didn't even really know me. That's why I have as much respect for Catholic preists as I do, and always will.

(In case anyone's wondering, the other example of a true Christian in my life was a Mormon Stake President, but that's another story. Suffice to say anybody who will let a grown man cry on his shoulder even though he's wearing an business suit isn't far off the mark of following Christ's example.)

I keep noticing on NSG people saying things that imply some people in the US don't think Catholics are Christians; for example in the thread on becoming President someone says something along the lines of "there is nothing Christians fear more than Catholics and we elected one as President"

Now I have never heard of this idea in the UK, or in fact anywhere other than NSG - is it a common in the US?

Where on earth does it come from?

I think I came close to flaming the person who posted that. As it was, I restrained it to a regular message correcting them.

And where I live, noone really thinks that. That may just be because it's Maryland, which has a relatively high proportion of Catholics to other religons or denominations of Christianity.

On the other hand, for the longest time(quite easily until I was 8), I had a hard time grasping the fact that there were non-Catholic Christians. I'm not entirely sure why this was, but I was like that.
On the other hand, I'm pretty sure most, if not all, of the people on NSG are over 8 years old. So they don't have an excuse, short of living under a rock for the last 600 years, which is highly unlikely. I'm also fairly sure that the reverse isn't true among Catholics where I live. The closest thing I have heard to something like that is a joke(so it wasn't meant seriously, and there were none who might have been offended around) where one of us basically said "Oh, Protestants are all just heretics anyway." And I know for a fact that wasn't meant seriously. If it was, my family wouldn't exist, my dad and his family all being Southern Baptist and my mom and her family being mostly Roman Catholic.

For the life of me, I also couldn't imagine why people would think Mormons aren't Christians either. Easily some of the nicest, most kindhearted people I know are Mormons. I don't really get where these attitudes come from.

...Born Agains...

what exactly are born agains? I keep hearing from them (mostly negatively) but I guess it's something american, so I don't really know what they are.

*sigh*

Okay, fascist.

Catholics are Christian.
Christians are not all Catholics.
Christians are many things.
Catholics are one thing.

Are we happy now? Are you happy now that you've utterly destroyed my argument and ruined my self-esteem!?

You say "fascist" like it's a bad thing.
Let me take a wild guess at what you'll post in response to this, if you reply at all: You'll probably say "because it is," or something to that effect.
:D

what exactly are born agains? I keep hearing from them (mostly negatively) but I guess it's something american, so I don't really know what they are.

It's rather complicated.

In the Catholic tradition, being "born again" is essentially being baptized.

The more well known Protestant tradition is associated today with Evangelicals. There are varying levels of being "born again", from a simple affirmation of one's faith in the Lord, to extreme, nigh-traumatic conversion experiences. I'm really not certain why the latter this creates such an inflated ego in so many, and why religion somehow takes over their lives. Regardless, the term "born again" is becoming increasingly associated with loud, judgemental and confrontational Christians.

Please note that NOT ALL born agains are like this. Hell, Johnny Cash was born again I think.

And I don't know if this is a largely "American" phenomenon.

It dates from the colonial period. It stems from the fact that the Pope during that time was busy having fun torturing and persecuting noncatholics.
American Christians percieved him as the anti christ. Hence Catholics were followers of anti-christ because they followed the Pope.
Another reason is that the Bible says that anyone who puts themselves as the mediator between God and man is the antichrist because the Bible says that only Jesus is the mediator between men and God. The Pope, during the time of the Revolution and before the Revolution claimed he was the mediator between us and God. And the catholic church continued to make that claim well into the midst of the 20th century.

It dates from the colonial period. It stems from the fact that the Pope during that time was busy having fun torturing and persecuting noncatholics. American Christians percieved him as the anti christ. Hence Catholics were followers of anti-christ because they followed the Pope. Another reason is that the Bible says that anyone who puts themselves as the mediator between God and man is the antichrist because the Bible says that only Jesus is the mediator between men and God. The Pope, during the time of the Revolution and before the Revolution claimed he was the mediator between us and God. And the catholic church continued to make that claim well into the midst of the 20th century.

...?

*sigh*