NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm not entirely sure what he's saying here...is he saying that if anybody questions the electoral results, he'll cut off oil, or is he saying only if the US questions, he'll cut the oil off?

And how does he get by threatening the media?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/venezuela.protest/index.html

http://www.geocities.com/norkysbocaranda/Venezuela.jpg

Si !! Yo agree con you.

Does little to persuade me that the vote will be a free and fair one.

http://www.geocities.com/norkysbocaranda/Venezuela.jpg

Si !!

Si! Si! Si!

On a side note, am I the only one who thinks Chavez's habit of calling his revolution "Bolivarian" ironic?

Si! Si! Si!good.

Does little to persuade me that the vote will be a free and fair one.

Actually, it would seem to indicate quite the opposite.

Hugo Chavez has always reminded me of that little shit in high school who, upon realizing that he's just a small fish in a big pond, lashes out at everyone regardless of who they are, while spouting tired pseudo-political nonsense about how "the man" is holding him back.

On a side note, am I the only one who thinks Chavez's habit of calling his revolution "Bolivarian" ironic?
Yes, Bolivarian. The Venezuelan bolivar. The "money revolution"?

http://www.geocities.com/norkysbocaranda/Venezuela.jpg

Si !! Yo agree con you.

Wow, that is really a big sign behind her.

Si !! Yo agree con you.
Estoy d'acuerdo con ti, I think :) (might be some kind of horrible françpañol going on there, though)

Has there ever been a more childish leader? I mean the guy acts like an immature clown. Breaking off ties with Colombia because he doesn't like someone in the government whatever. Wtf?

What a stupid thing to say. Especially since this is the first election in which he might actually have good reason to cheat.

You know what I think? Screw the oil shipments. If there is evidence of fraud, raise the allegations. The moment Hugo Chavez begins to sever his economic ties with the world is the day he becomes a pariah.

Besides, it's high time the US became more openly supportive of democratic reform. We should have a special program that openly funds opposition parties in countries where we would like to unseat the government without violence. Venezuela, Iran, Zimbabwe, maybe even Russia if relations go sour.

Hugo Chavez has always reminded me of that little shit in high school who, upon realizing that he's just a small fish in a big pond, lashes out at everyone regardless of who they are, while spouting tired pseudo-political nonsense about how "the man" is holding him back.

Wait, how does Hugho Chavez remind you of me?

What a stupid thing to say. Especially since this is the first election in which he might actually have good reason to cheat.

And saying something like this is going to certainly raise eyebrows, don't you think?

You know, the more I see of Chavez, the more I think those right-wing militarists that support him because they think he'll bring in a proper military dictatorship are right.

You know what I think? Screw the oil shipments. If there is evidence of fraud, raise the allegations. The moment Hugo Chavez begins to sever his economic ties with the world is the day he becomes a pariah.

Besides, it's high time the US became more openly supportive of democratic reform. We should have a special program that openly funds opposition parties in countries where we would like to unseat the government without violence. Venezuela, Iran, Zimbabwe, maybe even Russia if relations go sour.


I say screw the oil shipments too. I agree with your bottom list of countries but be wary of dealings with Russia. Russians are a breed unto their own and they have a military to backup their anger if the US overstepped involvement in their political process.

http://www.geocities.com/norkysbocaranda/Venezuela.jpg

Si !! Yo agree con you.

Hey, it's censored! What about the venezuelan free speech?
C'mon, down with the censorship!! :p


I say screw the oil shipments too. I agree with your bottom list of countries but be wary of dealings with Russia. Russians are a breed unto their own and they have a military to backup their anger if the US overstepped involvement in their political process.

I hope you can cope with the oil price skyrocketing.Even so, I think America should keep to her own business. If it does become hers, then do it (bringing proof), otherwise, let their own people handle their own problems
Russians are a good example of how disastrous an intervention of any kind can be, as they never have lived under a free representative democracy (not for long anyway).

They have more freedom now than in most of their history, which isn't much, but they seem to be content with their relative buying-what-they-want kind of freedom, and with the national economic policies. Not my kind of place for a living, though.

You know what I think? Screw the oil shipments. If there is evidence of fraud, raise the allegations. The moment Hugo Chavez begins to sever his economic ties with the world is the day he becomes a pariah.

Besides, it's high time the US became more openly supportive of democratic reform. We should have a special program that openly funds opposition parties in countries where we would like to unseat the government without violence. Venezuela, Iran, Zimbabwe, maybe even Russia if relations go sour.

Just to confirm here guys, when he says 'democracy' he means capitalism.

Si! Si! Si!

On a side note, am I the only one who thinks Chavez's habit of calling his revolution "Bolivarian" ironic?

In what sense? It's named after Simon Bolivar, who was born in Venezuela.

In what sense? It's named after Simon Bolivar, who was born in Venezuela.

Who also would, likely, have had little support for the policies of Hugo Chavez. Remember, Simon Bolivar was actually somewhat akin to Alexander Hamilton politically. Strong central government, rights and liberties protected, President for life and all of that stuff.

Who also would, likely, have had little support for the policies of Hugo Chavez. Remember, Simon Bolivar was actually somewhat akin to Alexander Hamilton politically. Strong central government, rights and liberties protected, President for life and all of that stuff.

He also wanted to be Emperor of a united America, (the southern continent) and died a bitter, haunted man. So?

The Bolivarian principles are much more than their namesake ever was.

This is like his threat to nationalise Spanish interests if Juan Carlos doesn't apologise. He's treating the country and its international interests as his personal property.

Wait, how does Hugho Chavez remind you of me?

[laughter]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Oh you.

The Bolivarian principles are much more than their namesake ever was.
They're not named after the man, they're named after the mythical, populist, nationalist figure. They're the perfect name for the policies - they just have nothing to do with socialism of the serious kind.

I say screw the oil shipments too. I agree with your bottom list of countries but be wary of dealings with Russia. Russians are a breed unto their own and they have a military to backup their anger if the US overstepped involvement in their political process.

Right now would be a bad idea with Putin in power. He's really popular, since Russia's economy is booming.

He also wanted to be Emperor of a united America, (the southern continent) and died a bitter, haunted man. So?

The Bolivarian principles are much more than their namesake ever was.

Hardly. The man at least will be remembered, this "Bolivarian Revolution" will be left on the ash-heap of history, forgot by all in a century.

Hardly. The man at least will be remembered, this "Bolivarian Revolution" will be left on the ash-heap of history, forgot by all in a century.
/right-wing desperate hope

Just to confirm here guys, when he says 'democracy' he means capitalism.

And when you say socialism, and democracy of the masses, you actually mean totalitarianism.

He also wanted to be Emperor of a united America, (the southern continent) and died a bitter, haunted man. So?

The Bolivarian principles are much more than their namesake ever was.

Emperor? Bolivar was pro-republic. I think you're talking about Jose de San Martín, another liberator who wanted to make an constitutional monarchy with an european monarch (not himself) in South America. He abandoned his project and gave up the power to Bolivar after a meeting.

Emperor? Bolivar was pro-republic. I think you're talking about Jose de San Martín, another liberator who wanted to make an constitutional monarchy with an european monarch (not himself) in South America. He abandoned his project and gave up the power to Bolivar after a meeting.

Bolivar was a huge fan of Napoleon...in fact saw him coronated as Emperor and while it is true that this was an early ambition, many historians doubt that he fully gave it up. Since what he sought was a united South America, with himself at the helm, saying that he was purely pro-republic, without any designs for something...grander...is perhaps a little naive.

I don't want to let Hugie down, but oil's a fungible commodity. This would do absolutely nothing, except perhaps lead to a small temporary increase in prices at a few oil production sites (and just funnel that additional income away from Venezuela) and give another nation influence over his country, maybe somebody like China who would have no problem assassinating him and installing someone else if they felt like it.

Not to mention it would destroy any real influence he has over the US...unless, of course, he's stupid enough to outright stop sales of oil. That would just destroy his country, lead to his downfall, and ultimately do nothing to impact Venezuelan oil sales to the US.

What a stupid brat.

You know what I think? Screw the oil shipments. If there is evidence of fraud, raise the allegations. The moment Hugo Chavez begins to sever his economic ties with the world is the day he becomes a pariah.

Besides, it's high time the US became more openly supportive of democratic reform. We should have a special program that openly funds opposition parties in countries where we would like to unseat the government without violence. Venezuela, Iran, Zimbabwe, maybe even Russia if relations go sour.

What an appalling suggestion.

You are aware that for other countries to do that in the US is forbidden by the Constitution, right?

You don't think your proposal sends a clear message of utter contempt for democracy?

You don't think previously peaceful democratic citizens of these countries might resent the US behaving like this, and I don't know, burn down the US embassy or something?

/right-wing desperate hope

/left-wing authoritarian desperate hope.

Bolivar was a huge fan of Napoleon...in fact saw him coronated as Emperor and while it is true that this was an early ambition, many historians doubt that he fully gave it up. Since what he sought was a united South America, with himself at the helm, saying that he was purely pro-republic, without any designs for something...grander...is perhaps a little naive.

I'm not saying that Bolivar didn't sought power. On the contrary, he wanted lots of it. It's not like his republic would be a good thing. He wanted life-terms in such a republic, and a united South America (excluding Brazil) under a single strong, rather authoritarian, republican government.
What he didn't become as a monarch he tried to become as a life-term president. Not all monarchs are bad, mind you. San Martin's project was planned under ideals, not interests.That he gave up his army and his power to Bolivar and to the new countries tells of his genuine good intentions towards South America. That Bolivar refused to share command tells much of Bolivar's own true interests.
Bolivar wanted power, but the local politicians wanted it too. The big republic broke into many little republics with strong government, and few respect for elections.These people stayed in presidency for life that way, using promises and the army to keep the people under their power (notice the similarity with Chavez). Such people known here as caudillos, and under their rule, S America lived happily ever after...at least that's the lies that they told the people when things went bad. That's populism (bolivarianism included) for you.