NationStates Jolt Archive

Is Turkey, after all, going to become a EU country? In light of the recent developments in Turkey (moderate islamic presidency, raids on iraqi Kurdistan, rise of fundamentalistic fringes), should stricter conditions be met by Turkey to become a full-fledged EU member?

Discuss, buddies.

EU membership might dissuade Turkey from following down this path; but who knows how to predict Turkey's actions.

I think Turkey could make a vital EU state, due to its location in the world. I don't think Turkey actually meets the EU requirements yet because of the human rights and immigration records.

Provided that Turkey can satisfy the normal standards required for EU membership, I see no reason not to admit them.

Turkey's changed so much in the past 10 years that it might be wise to stand back and watch. Also, if Turkey ended up being at war with the Untied States, especially in Iraq, this could strain relations between the rest of Europe and the US as they would now be forced by their own treaties to support Turkey economically and industrially, and thus be, by international law, a war target.

Norway should join the EU.

Many European countries spent a long time trying to get rid of the yoke of Turkish imperialism. Turkey should start an Asian Union and keep its nose out of Europe and America should keep its snout out also.

The US should cease pushing for Turkish EU membership, if it is so fond of Turkey it should allow that Asian country to join the US on 24th November.

There's still the whole Cyprus thing that in my mind needs sorting out before entry. I also think Turkey is too big as well, but maybe that's just trying to protect my own country's position in the EU. I mean going by population it can claim more control than France or Britain or any number of original members. Which considering its totally different outlook isn't a good thing. But then I'm generally suspicious of the EU anyway.

I think we should go for Kazakhstan instead. It's partly west of the Urals so it should count.

maybe Turkey could stop treating different people such as gays as having a mental illness and maybe they could even cut down on the nationalist jibber-jabber

but the one thing I'm sure on is that Turkey has a long way to go before they can even think about getting membership to a (mostly) civilized club

Many European countries spent a long time trying to get rid of the yoke of Turkish imperialism

membership =/= imperialism

There's still the whole Cyprus thing that in my mind needs sorting out before entry.

what worked for NATO was just not really talking about it and just letting Northern Cyprus become a ghost town

I think we should go for Kazakhstan instead. It's partly west of the Urals so it should count.

West of the Urals but anywhere but on the issue of human rights

Turkey needs to shape up before it can join the European Union.

It needs to admit to the Armenian genocide.

It needs to stop attacking Kurds.

It needs greater free speech(as do all countries, really.)

It also needs to be fairer in many other respects I'm probably unaware of, such as legal matters relating to freedom of beliefs and whatnot.

In other words it needs to join us in the twenty-first century before it can join the European Union. Once it does it's free to in my mind.

Of course I live in America, so my opinion is probably worthless...

West of the Urals but anywhere but on the issue of human rights
But loads of natural gas.

But loads of natural gas.

It's certainly building up pressure in huge unreleased quantities due to the lack of free speech.

Wouldn't the European Union have to change its name to include Turkey?

Wouldn't the European Union have to change its name to include Turkey?

the European best friends society :confused:

the European best friends society :confused:

No, the European-and-a-little-bit-Asian Union

Wouldn't the European Union have to change its name to include Turkey?
Turkey has actually been traditionally considered part of Europe. For example it was the first to be considered "the sick man of Europe", which crown Britain now has in its almost permanent possession. Blue tongue, Foot and Mouth and Bird Flu, baby! Suck on that, Turkey! Better luck next year!

Turkey has actually been traditionally considered part of Europe. For example it was the first to be considered "the sick man of Europe", which crown Britain now has in its almost permanent possession. Blue tongue, Foot and Mouth and Bird Flu, baby! Suck on that, Turkey! Better luck next year!

I think our country is becoming the stupid man of Europe too, considering the current state of education.

Provided that Turkey can satisfy the normal standards required for EU membership, I see no reason not to admit them.

Yup.

Wouldn't the European Union have to change its name to include Turkey?

Part of it is geographically in Europe. Which is what gives it the right to be an official candidate.

Wouldn't the European Union have to change its name to include Turkey?France is a member and we didn't change the name. Well... we did. To European Union.

Anyway, I grew a lot less skeptical of the moderate Islamic party when you take a look at how Ataturk's party and the other nationalists are like. The current government seems to be the better choice, at the moment.

Raids on Iraqi Kurdistan: I don't approve of it, but every country has the right to protect its citizens. That's why I couldn't fault Israel for attacking Lebanon after Hezballah kidnapped some of their soldiers (the subsequent overreaction, on the other hand, I do fault). While I don't think its a good idea, Turkey is fully within its rights to fight a terrorist organisation that has been continuously plaguing them.

Currently, my biggest problems with Turkey are the trials of the men that massacred the Christian missionaries and that of the German boy that allegedly raped a British girl. Both are quite shameful for the standard of Law and Order required by the EU.

Turkey has actually been traditionally considered part of Europe. For example it was the first to be considered "the sick man of Europe", which crown Britain now has in its almost permanent possession. Blue tongue, Foot and Mouth and Bird Flu, baby! Suck on that, Turkey! Better luck next year!

I thought that the "Sick Man of Europe" term applied to the Ottoman Empire's trinket-based economy, not any specific diseases.

I thought that the "Sick Man of Europe" term applied to the Ottoman Empire's trinket-based economy, not any specific diseases.
Yes, but then some wags reapplied it to Britain when we were having a bit of trouble with concurrent Foot and Mouth and Mad Cow disease outbreaks. But with the recent outbreaks of the three I mentioned I think the Crown's safely with us.

Actually looking on teh internets i can't seem to find a huge number of references to it being used in the context of those infectious diseases. Maybe it was another one of my day dreams .... No that's alright I've found a reference to it in an old Guardian article. I wasn't just making it up after all.

I can't believe anyone even bothered to consider Turkey, to me they don't even come close to meeting the standards of Europe until the trash all their laws against offending turkey as a nation nationality/whatever. Theres more to imporve but that always seems to stand out to me.

Turkey has actually been traditionally considered part of Europe. For example it was the first to be considered "the sick man of Europe", which crown Britain now has in its almost permanent possession. Blue tongue, Foot and Mouth and Bird Flu, baby! Suck on that, Turkey! Better luck next year!
To be fair, the sick man of Europe was about the Ottoman empire which dominated much of Europe. Turkey is not European, but the Ottoman Empire controlled much of Europe:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/OttomanEmpireIn1683.png/637px-OttomanEmpireIn1683.png
Yup.
Nope. Turkey is not European.
Part of it is geographically in Europe. Which is what gives it the right to be an official candidate.
Yeah, about 10% or less than that. :rolleyes:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/LocationTurkey.png

Turkey should not be allowed in the EU. They are not Europeans, their country doesn't live up to human rights and so on, they will not accept responsibility for the Armenian Genocide and Turkey is placed in Asia Minor

Have you guys ever considered that the EU's initial reluctance to accept Turkey as an equal may have contributed to the AKP's (a VERY moderate party, akin to Christian Democrats) rise to power?

Both the minority Kemalists and the ruling AKP are Pro-EU. However, I do not believe that the AKP is as pro-EU as the Kemalists were. Although I cannot speak for even a minority of turks, most of those who I spoke to during my time there were a bit Euroskeptic. They were not worried that their rights were being violated or anything, but they were worried that a non-white, Muslim nation would never be accepted as equals in the Community of nations.

The AKP represents a more wait-and-see attitude then the Kemalists, who were more reckless in their pursuit of EU membership.

I rather liked a letter on the subject that I saw in a British newspaper _

I'm sure that Turkey could easily be found a place in the EU. They can have ours.
:)

Turkey has about as much claim to a EU membership as the US.

Better idea: Let's dismantle the EU.

Don't get too confused, turkey is as European as Greece and Bulgaria. Yet, much has to be done for turkey to line up with europe, including a level of autonomy for the kurds and the solution of the cyprus matter.
Still, if turkey would join eu, the same eu core would be disrupted, as it is happening in a lower level with poland. I suppose then that if turkey is to be part of eu, eu sould change as well, to be able to control vast countries such as Turkey or future Ucrania, Russia and Morroco. Perhaps a 2-level union with the hard core of france/germany/benelux/austria and 2-3 more (not including UK, Poland or greece) surrounded by a more soft mandle, with commercial and social matters treated differently on the different case, would serve.

Don't get too confused, turkey is as European as Greece and Bulgaria.

Indeed.


Yet, much has to be done for turkey to line up with europe, including a level of autonomy for the kurds and the solution of the cyprus matter.

*nods*

What many people apparently fail to realise is that Turkey's hypothetical entry into the EU is anything but imminent. They have the right to be a candidate, due to their geography and the fact that (unlike Belarus) they are a democracy, but negotiations stipulate that they must meet strict guidelines in terms of conformity with EU norms (notably on human rights issues) before they're allowed in. In other terms, they've been asked to "europeanise" themselves, to earn a place in the EU.

I rarely used to agree with Chirac, but he was quite right when he said: "Do we want to allow Turkey to embrace European values and ways (since they're asking to do so), or do we want to push them away, into the arms of other regional neighbours?"

What many people apparently fail to realise is that Turkey's hypothetical entry into the EU is anything but imminent. They have the right to be a candidate, due to their geography and the fact that (unlike Belarus) they are a democracy, but negotiations stipulate that they must meet strict guidelines in terms of conformity with EU norms (notably on human rights issues) before they're allowed in. In other terms, they've been asked to "europeanise" themselves, to earn a place in the EU.
Yeah, this.

I've got no geography-based issues with Turkey joining up, but there are a whole heap of things that I'd like them to change before they are accepted. This whole 'insulting Turkishness' thing, for starters, and some better protection of free speech (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/28/dawkins_turkey/) would be nice. (tenous example, I know, but it happened to be one of the tabs I had open when I read this thread ;) )

I think Turkey could make a vital EU state, due to its location in the world. I don't think Turkey actually meets the EU requirements yet because of the human rights and immigration records.
Agreed, and I would also add that Europe needs to scrap the CAS, because applying it to Turkey would be bancrupting.

Don't get too confused, turkey is as European as Greece and Bulgaria.

...

NO. It's really not. Where did you get that idea?

Where did you get that idea?
What gives you the idea that the EU is a geographic rather than political entity? Is Martinique not part of the EU?

The EU is a construct of treaties between governments. Right now, there's no more and no less. There is no barrier whatsoever to let another country sign up, provided that move is approved according to the processes noted in the treaties. Historically, due to geographical proximity and shared history, the countries have been from around Europe in a geographical sense. But today, Turkey borders more than one EU country, and it definitely has a long shared history (as well as future) with the EU.

Exactly what reason can you bring up that the Turkish government cannot put its signature underneith this set of treaties?

Wouldn't the European Union have to change its name to include Turkey?
No, because Turkey is geographically in Europe, if by the skin of its teeth.

They'll be in in the next 10 or so years, methinks. Their current constitutional rewrite goes a long way towards that. Their main problem is the Kurdish population, seeing as the EU are pretty against Turkey taking military action in what has essentially become a civil war.

That and Cyprus, which I have no idea why we're arguing over, and the Armenian Genocide, which isn't really to do with anyone else in the EU.

Preventing Turkish membership for geographic reasons is ridiculous. There are plenty of other reasons to prevent membership for now, but the technicality of whether they are in Europe or not is not important - they are an important trading partner of many EU nations and that is all that should matter. The same goes for Morocco.

Better idea: Let's dismantle the EU.

Agreed.

While we're at it we should go serious and put all other European nations under the control of Germany. For the greater good of course, so even those unfortunate ones not born as Germans will have a chance to live under a more spohisticated, civilized and enlightened leadership than their current, corrupt regimes.