NationStates Jolt Archive

Let's say, hypothetically speaking, that you found yourself in my situation.

Here I am. I have fairly recently minted bachelor's degrees in math, physics, and philosophy, and I happen to be collecting a master's in math in the near future. I've always assumed academia is not merely my present, but my future indefinitely until I keel over from brain damage, heart failure, cancer, et cetera.

What other use is there for an education like mine?

What other use is there for any education past a professional or master's degree in a single subject (at the absolute most for those fields requiring intensive study in a specialization, like medicine)? Aside from the joy of learning and teaching and discovering and researching, what uses can we put an unusually broad or deep education to?

Badgering people in NationStates General? Writing books? Editing science fiction? Living on a mountaintop and starting some variety of religion?

And more importantly, what motivation do people have to pursue education intensively and extensively when the market rewards getting a bachelor's or technical education and going straight to "productive" employment?

You should talk to my daughter.

She just got her MPH/Epidemiology and can't find a job in her field - that's $90,000.00 down the drain.

First off,

Here I am. I have fairly recently minted bachelor's degrees in math, physics, and philosophy, and I happen to be collecting a master's in math in the near future.
congrats.

What other use is there for any education past a professional or master's degree in a single subject (at the absolute most for those fields requiring intensive study in a specialization, like medicine)? Aside from the joy of learning and teaching and discovering and researching, what uses can we put an unusually broad or deep education to?
I forgot to check your location before clicking quote - where dost thou hail from? USA? I'm only able to answer from a German PoV, and for me, the two questions above are everything but synonymous. With us, a master's degree or equivalent doesn't qualify as "unusually broad or deep education"; in fact, such is supposed to be the norm for uni qualifications.* Of course, the BA/MA lobby is trying hard to make the 6-semester BA into a generally acceptable "ready for general profession" degree, but I don't see it, and even a 'normal' elementary teacher needs to complete at least 8 semesters of uni plus two years vocational training.

That as a caveat.

And I'd assume that basically every profession has a high-end scale where you'll find a place as a higher-qualified person in that field.


*We only recently switched to the BA/MA system, but our previous system did not even offer any degrees requiring less than an average 10 semesters of study.

Let's say, hypothetically speaking, that you found yourself in my situation.

Here I am. I have fairly recently minted bachelor's degrees in math, physics, and philosophy, and I happen to be collecting a master's in math in the near future. I've always assumed academia is not merely my present, but my future indefinitely until I keel over from brain damage, heart failure, cancer, et cetera.

What other use is there for an education like mine?

I tend to think that when you've learned so much, it's best to pass that learning on to others. So maybe academia is the best place for you to be.

What other use is there for any education past a professional or master's degree in a single subject (at the absolute most for those fields requiring intensive study in a specialization, like medicine)? Aside from the joy of learning and teaching and discovering and researching, what uses can we put an unusually broad or deep education to?

Badgering people in NationStates General? Writing books? Editing science fiction? Living on a mountaintop and starting some variety of religion?

All of the above!

And more importantly, what motivation do people have to pursue education intensively and extensively when the market rewards getting a bachelor's or technical education and going straight to "productive" employment?

It hasn't particularly rewarded me.

Let's say, hypothetically speaking, that you found yourself in my situation.

Here I am. I have fairly recently minted bachelor's degrees in math, physics, and philosophy, and I happen to be collecting a master's in math in the near future. I've always assumed academia is not merely my present, but my future indefinitely until I keel over from brain damage, heart failure, cancer, et cetera.

What other use is there for an education like mine?

What other use is there for any education past a professional or master's degree in a single subject (at the absolute most for those fields requiring intensive study in a specialization, like medicine)? Aside from the joy of learning and teaching and discovering and researching, what uses can we put an unusually broad or deep education to?

Badgering people in NationStates General? Writing books? Editing science fiction? Living on a mountaintop and starting some variety of religion?

And more importantly, what motivation do people have to pursue education intensively and extensively when the market rewards getting a bachelor's or technical education and going straight to "productive" employment?

many technological businesses require math and science types to make their products work. the company my husband works at had a physics phd on staff for many years to help them interpret the latest research and translate it into a working product line. (he was a bit of a prick, we were glad when he took a job with the competition, let them deal with his sorry ass)

while its hard to find a job that would use ALL your degrees, its quite possible to find a job that uses at least one of them.

Where I'm from, mathematicians can do well working for the casinos, applying their prob/stats mojo to make sure the house makes its margins.

If you can stand the research, I've had a chance to work at some of the National Laboratories like Argonne, and I've trained with people from Los Alamos. If you're willing to do solid state, I think that helps.

I don't know if this is true, but a colleague of mine over in computational physics says that Wall Street, as well as various over sees financial houses, consider physicists to be good analysts. He's had some of his undergrad students have strong offers even before finishing a BS.

The APS keeps some track of what people with various degrees in physics are up to...these days, by the time you're done with your post-Doc, you're halfway to retirement anyway....

audio companies are always looking for math people, as are alot of special effects departments. Lots of science and tech-based companies

For the record, I am in the US.

So in other words, you'd say my degree in Philosophy isn't doing anything for me in terms of general options outside of academia...

Personally, I feel pretty certain that academia is "my place," so to speak, but it's a good time to be asking questions about that.

Teach other people?

Or would that be too logical?

For the record, I am in the US.

So in other words, you'd say my degree in Philosophy isn't doing anything for me in terms of general options outside of academia...

Personally, I feel pretty certain that academia is "my place," so to speak, but it's a good time to be asking questions about that.

From what little philosophy I took at the U of A (2 whole classes), I would say that if you are going into any kind of research or corporate level engineering, it will help you *more* than your math and hard sciences. The philosophy courses I took revolved around teaching us how we learn. There was a nice Greek sounding term for that which I forgot. Essentially it helped me be a better critical observer, which is valuable for what I do. Once you figure out what you need to know, actually finding the answers is fairly straightforward.

Let's say, hypothetically speaking, that you found yourself in my situation.

Here I am. I have fairly recently minted bachelor's degrees in math, physics, and philosophy, and I happen to be collecting a master's in math in the near future. I've always assumed academia is not merely my present, but my future indefinitely until I keel over from brain damage, heart failure, cancer, et cetera.

What other use is there for an education like mine?

What other use is there for any education past a professional or master's degree in a single subject (at the absolute most for those fields requiring intensive study in a specialization, like medicine)? Aside from the joy of learning and teaching and discovering and researching, what uses can we put an unusually broad or deep education to?

Badgering people in NationStates General? Writing books? Editing science fiction? Living on a mountaintop and starting some variety of religion?

And more importantly, what motivation do people have to pursue education intensively and extensively when the market rewards getting a bachelor's or technical education and going straight to "productive" employment?

Enjoyment. The purpose of education, formal or otherwise is to either be or provide for enjoyment. That's pretty much the purpose of everything we do; we seek enjoyment. For some people, a higher education is a means to provide the necessities of an enjoyable life. For others, it provides the necessities to bring joy to others' lives(which is a source of personal joy as well). For still others, knowledge, and the sense of accomplishment that comes with the documented reaching of educational goals is the enjoyment itself.

But there's no great mystery to life. The purpose of everything we do in life is to seek enjoyment.

For me, getting a higher education (college) was the only way I was going to get a job. I couldn't do any of the jobs that only required a High School diploma because of my handicaps, so getting a job inside a building where I didn't have to lift heavy things, or drive big trucks was the best option for me. Now my Bachelors in Arts is worthless. I know there are people on here who says it isn't, but it is. Between my undergrad and graduate school, I had a semester off. I couldn't even get an interview for a part time job, and I put down my BA in every application I sent in. Nothing, Nadda, Zip. In terms of getting a job, don't count on it if you have a BA.

However, now that I am in graduate school and studying Occupational Therapy, I will soon have something that I can offer, and that people actually want. They need OTs here in the states, and they are willing to pay anywhere from $50k to $55k to get an OT. Which is great for me because I need that money for my aviation hobby. :D

So in conclusion, BA, bad, Master in Occupational Therapy, Good! :D

If there's no great mystery to life, why are there so many people who need to get a clue?

Because they aren't enjoying themselves.

But there's no great mystery to life.

If there's no great mystery to life, why are there so many people who need to get a clue?

From what little philosophy I took at the U of A (2 whole classes), I would say that if you are going into any kind of research or corporate level engineering, it will help you *more* than your math and hard sciences. The philosophy courses I took revolved around teaching us how we learn. There was a nice Greek sounding term for that which I forgot. Essentially it helped me be a better critical observer, which is valuable for what I do. Once you figure out what you need to know, actually finding the answers is fairly straightforward.

Intruiging. Most corporations have the exact opposite view - the hard sciences are what teaches someone how to think and solve problems.

Hairball, I think you'd do excellent writing books. About what subject I cannot say--that's up to you--but I think you'd do well at it.

Or you could become some sort of professional mathametician.

if it wasn't for college where would are porn industry be? :eek:

I think you should go and be homeless for awhile to avoid paying college debts

http://www.nyu.edu/socialwork/ip/news/archives/homeless-man-w-dog.jpg

Enjoyment. The purpose of education, formal or otherwise is to either be or provide for enjoyment. That's pretty much the purpose of everything we do; we seek enjoyment. For some people, a higher education is a means to provide the necessities of an enjoyable life. For others, it provides the necessities to bring joy to others' lives(which is a source of personal joy as well). For still others, knowledge, and the sense of accomplishment that comes with the documented reaching of educational goals is the enjoyment itself.

But there's no great mystery to life. The purpose of everything we do in life is to seek enjoyment.

This.

For me, if I so chose I could probably make a profitable career out of the knowledge I do have now. Instead I am pursuing degrees (I have yet to decide in what, but let's say they're degrees! ;)) for the sake of seeking knowledge, as I like knowledge. Anyway, college degrees look good on your résumé.

I educate myself because I like learning, it interests me. Life is temporary, you may as well keep yourself interested. I think higher knowledge makes you, essentially, a better person.

I'd sit through a philosophy class even if I couldn't get a degree for it, just as long as I found it worth my time.

In terms of a job, most anyone can get one, and most of what you do at the job isn't applying what you learned.

I learn for myself. I do not hope to improve society with my education. I do not wish to, society and civilization are fucked. I learn selfishly, and it's the most wonderful way to do so.

Intruiging. Most corporations have the exact opposite view - the hard sciences are what teaches someone how to think and solve problems.

Yes, you are correct, most corporations do. But problem solving is not nearly as hard as identifying the problem to start with. Too many engineers (who I work with mostly) try and fix the symptoms of problems rather than fix root causes. Its not because they don't want to, but they don't have the background that makes them ask "why is this observable phenomena happening" before they ask "how do I get back into process specification." An example:

I work with water slurry systems. We have been having a problem with the batches being foamy in our batch tanks.

The inital (in my opinion bad) solution was to add defoaming agent.

The correct solution was to figure out what was causing the foam. Ultimately we identified the root cause and removed it. That required NO technical skills at all, just some critical observation.

Honestly, with TJHairball's mix of degrees, I think he would be easily employable as a process engineer or corporate level engineer. Stress the technical aspect in the job interview, but use the philosophy day to day.

For what it's worth, right now in the business world (at least in the U.S.), a degree in Creative Writing is the new MBA--employers think it's proof you can problem-solve and think outside the box. Now if only I had any interest in working in business, I'd finally find a use for my CW degree...

Kyronea, thanks for the vote of confidence. Call to power, I'm actually not in debt from college, as remarkable as that might sound, although I can't say I'm making a mint off my assistantship.

IMO, philosophy educations are very useful in life whatever you do, but it's usually hard to convince someone who hasn't studied philosophy of that.
For what it's worth, right now in the business world (at least in the U.S.), a degree in Creative Writing is the new MBA--employers think it's proof you can problem-solve and think outside the box. Now if only I had any interest in working in business, I'd finally find a use for my CW degree...
Every day you learn something new and unexpected if you care to ask the right questions... I had no idea.

... Living on a mountaintop and starting some variety of religion?
...

I'd go with this one :cool:

You've answered your own question in many ways. Do you really need more than that?