NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been watching this video in English class, to begin our study of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. The video is a sort of documentary about the controversy surrounding the book.

The controversy is mainly about how the book is teh 3vil because it uses the word "******". Some even take it farther and say the book is tainted because Mark Twain is a racist.

The second one especially deserves a WTF. I read a biography on him once and he was hardly what could be considered remotely racist. The other problem with making the "******" argumant the crux of the issue ignores the fact that it was also satire and was written to make an anti-racist point.

Thoughts?

There is a whole history to the book which involves many reasons.

In one printing somebody added a phallus to uncle (I blanked on his name). The picture even had the aunt looking on with a smile. :D

It was caught but a few made it out.

There are the usual racial claims. Some view Huck as a bad example for children.

Somebody will find some reason to censor just about anything.

Always remember to read or watch anything the moralists are trying to censor......

People are stupid, get over it.

I've been watching this video in English class, to begin our study of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. The video is a sort of documentary about the controversy surrounding the book.

The controversy is mainly about how the book is teh 3vil because it uses the word "******". Some even take it farther and say the book is tainted because Mark Twain is a racist.

The second one especially deserves a WTF. I read a biography on him once and he was hardly what could be considered remotely racist. The other problem with making the "******" argumant the crux of the issue ignores the fact that it was also satire and was written to make an anti-racist point.

Thoughts?

Yeah, I saw that exact same video. The one with girl in Arizona saying that the book offends her people and with the over-protective mom filing lawsuits? That's crazy, we might go to the same school...

Regardless, it's a load of bullcrap. That historically was how the word was used; it wasn't to be racist. The point of book WAS to be a satire and to make an anti-racist point. The overwhelming stupidity of some people...

*massive literary yawn*

Isn't it obvious? A white boy all alone with nobody to take care of him? And some black just tailing along probably waiting for him to fall asleep so that he can steal Huck's bling?

Yeah, I saw that exact same video. The one with girl in Arizona saying that the book offends her people and with the over-protective mom filing lawsuits? That's crazy, we might go to the same school...

Regardless, it's a load of bullcrap. That historically was how the word was used; it wasn't to be racist. The point of book WAS to be a satire and to make an anti-racist point. The overwhelming stupidity of some people...

I can't remember if it was in Arizona, but it was the one that alternated between her and some scholars, one of whom was a bald black guy with an amazing beard.

I can't remember if it was in Arizona, but it was the one that alternated between her and some scholars, one of whom was a bald black guy with an amazing beard.

haha, yes I remember that guy. Have you seen the chemical safety video too?

People overreact. I have to admit I'd probably overreact myself to some of it if I hadn't known what Samuel Clemens meant by how he wrote the books. 'Cause see, I can actually read that cool neato disclaimer he wrote at the beginning. You know, the pages before the book begins?

That said, I have to congratulate you. Finally, a new way to discuss censorship! I don't think I've EVER seen a thread on Huckleberry Finn here before.

...

If anyone so much as even THINKS of searching and pulling up links to older Finn threads, I'm going to shoot them.

Mark Twain was an abhorrent, outright racist. The fact that he uses the word "******" so many times in his so-called novel proves this. If he wanted to make a point about the racial injustice he would've depicted Southerners of the 1840s using much more tame language such as "african-american" instead of what was actually used. Also, the protagonist of the novel is a white boy how the hell can you say it's anti-racist when the main character is white, aka the Racist Race?

If anyone so much as even THINKS of searching and pulling up links to older Finn threads, I'm going to shoot them.


Is that possible? I thought they all got deleted after awhile. Or are they all compacted in some dark hole in cyberspace?

If anyone so much as even THINKS of searching and pulling up links to older Finn threads, I'm going to shoot them.

Pulling a Twain, eh? :p

Mark Twain was an abhorrent, outright racist. The fact that he uses the word "******" so many times in his so-called novel proves this. If he wanted to make a point about the racial injustice he would've depicted Southerners of the 1840s using much more tame language such as "african-american" instead of what was actually used. Also, the protagonist of the novel is a white boy how the hell can you say it's anti-racist when the main character is white, aka the Racist Race?

ehhhh... sarcasm??

ehhhh... sarcasm??

That's ridiculous, everyone knows there's no room for sarcasm on this forum. Unless you're ignorant. Are you ignorant?

Pulling a Twain, eh? :p

There are those who consider me to be his reincarnated spirit, taken from the grave and given life once more just to plague the Earth with his sarcasm and wit.

Thankfully I'm not one of those.

There are those who consider me to be his reincarnated spirit, taken from the grave and given life once more just to plague the Earth with his sarcasm and wit.

Thankfully I'm not one of those.

One of those people, or one of those reincarnated spirits?

Modern sensibilities are not the sensibilities of Twain's time. "******" wasn't stigmatized in his day, and not really until the twentieth century-it revealed the speaker couldn't pronounce "Negro" and said more of the speaker than the spoken of. In H.P.Lovecraft's "The Rats in the Walls", the narrator has a cat called "******-man", indicating the word didn't become offensive until the 1960's, though it was a vulgar term as early as the 1950's. Too many people try to be the Thought Police and use Political Correctness to bludgeon everyone into being identical. Best to ignore the Twain detractors and enjoy the writing.

Wasn't H.P. Lovecraft a racist?

One of those people, or one of those reincarnated spirits?

Both. I would presume, anyway.

Modern sensibilities are not the sensibilities of Twain's time. "******" wasn't stigmatized in his day, and not really until the twentieth century-it revealed the speaker couldn't pronounce "Negro" and said more of the speaker than the spoken of. In H.P.Lovecraft's "The Rats in the Walls", the narrator has a cat called "******-man", indicating the word didn't become offensive until the 1960's, though it was a vulgar term as early as the 1950's. Too many people try to be the Thought Police and use Political Correctness to bludgeon everyone into being identical. Best to ignore the Twain detractors and enjoy the writing.

Modern sensibilities are not the sensibilities of Twain's time. "******" wasn't stigmatized in his day, and not really until the twentieth century-it revealed the speaker couldn't pronounce "Negro" and said more of the speaker than the spoken of. In H.P.Lovecraft's "The Rats in the Walls", the narrator has a cat called "******-man", indicating the word didn't become offensive until the 1960's, though it was a vulgar term as early as the 1950's. Too many people try to be the Thought Police and use Political Correctness to bludgeon everyone into being identical. Best to ignore the Twain detractors and enjoy the writing.

I thought Lovecraft (nothing against his excellent stories) was pretty much a racist?

As I recall, Jim ended up being pretty much the only positive father figure that Huck had, and Huck, struggling against the morals of his time, finally said that he didn't care if he WAS going to hell for stealing Jim -- he was going to help him escape and find his family.

A VERY racist book.

As I recall, Jim ended up being pretty much the only positive father figure that Huck had, and Huck, struggling against the morals of his time, finally said that he didn't care if he WAS going to hell for stealing Jim -- he was going to help him escape and find his family.

A VERY racist book.

Not to be contrary, but I think Huck was very much still a racist at the end, and he only made an exception for Jim.
At least, that is what I have heard.

As I recall, Jim ended up being pretty much the only positive father figure that Huck had, and Huck, struggling against the morals of his time, finally said that he didn't care if he WAS going to hell for stealing Jim -- he was going to help him escape and find his family.

A VERY racist book.

The documentary mentioned the use of irony, in that all the "respected members of society" are depicted unpleasantly and that the one positive figure, Jim, is considered the most lowly.

Not to be contrary, but I think Huck was very much still a racist at the end, and he only made an exception for Jim.
At least, that is what I have heard.

Considering Huck had absolutely no education and grew up in the 1850s, I think we can consider that extremely good progress.

Eh, most of the people who get offended by Huck Finn also get offended by To Kill A Mockingbird. People, in short, are idiots who don't actually read books before declaring them offensive.

I've been watching this video in English class, to begin our study of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. The video is a sort of documentary about the controversy surrounding the book.

The controversy is mainly about how the book is teh 3vil because it uses the word "******". Some even take it farther and say the book is tainted because Mark Twain is a racist.

The second one especially deserves a WTF. I read a biography on him once and he was hardly what could be considered remotely racist. The other problem with making the "******" argumant the crux of the issue ignores the fact that it was also satire and was written to make an anti-racist point.

Thoughts?

The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is an excellent book, an American classic that I love. It is about a trouble time and does use satire to critique the attitudes towards race at that time. The book is not racist and, as far as I know, Mark Twain was not particularly racist. I certainly don't support those that seek to ban the book.

Nonetheless, I can understand why some people have trouble celebrating a book that refers to them and people like them as "niggers." Telling people they are stupid for being sensitive to that word really only shows how clueless one is.

That is not to say that no child should be exposed to the book or to any book that uses the term. Merely that it creates some understandable issues.

As for Huck Finn... Well, it got banned in Twain's day due to Southerners complaining of Huck and Jim having a non-segregated relationship and portrayal of Whites in a negative light... And today because of portrayal of Blacks in a negative light and use of the word ******.

I get the feeling that Mark Twain is laughing at us wherever he is right now.

The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is an excellent book, an American classic that I love. It is about a trouble time and does use satire to critique the attitudes towards race at that time. The book is not racist and, as far as I know, Mark Twain was not particularly racist. I certainly don't support those that seek to ban the book.

Nonetheless, I can understand why some people have trouble celebrating a book that refers to them and people like them as "niggers." Telling people they are stupid for being sensitive to that word really only shows how clueless one is.

That is not to say that no child should be exposed to the book or to any book that uses the term. Merely that it creates some understandable issues.

Just to clarify my position, since TCT makes some good points - I don't think it's particularly stupid to be sensitive to offensive terms, or to insist that teachers should discuss the historical context of the book before presenting it. I do think it is stupid to ban the book outright or to declare Twain or his novels racist simply due to his use of the word "******." As I said, the same logic leads foolish people to ban To Kill a Mockingbird, which may possibly be the single greatest indictment of Southern racism ever written. (One parent at my own high school argued that Mockingbird should not be included in our curriculum due to its "racism." Thankfully, no one agreed with her, but it was rather pathetic that the argument had to happen at all. The parent in question, incidentally, was white.)

Modern sensibilities are not the sensibilities of Twain's time. "******" wasn't stigmatized in his day, and not really until the twentieth century-it revealed the speaker couldn't pronounce "Negro" and said more of the speaker than the spoken of. In H.P.Lovecraft's "The Rats in the Walls", the narrator has a cat called "******-man", indicating the word didn't become offensive until the 1960's, though it was a vulgar term as early as the 1950's. Too many people try to be the Thought Police and use Political Correctness to bludgeon everyone into being identical. Best to ignore the Twain detractors and enjoy the writing.

Ah the great "Political Correctness" scare.

Regardless, you should check your Oxford English Dictionary. "******" has been a derogatory term dating back to 1775.

Even when intended as a "non-offensive" term without specific hostile intent, the use of the word in the 19th Century reflected racist attitudes.

Just to clarify my position, since TCT makes some good points - I don't think it's particularly stupid to be sensitive to offensive terms, or to insist that teachers should discuss the historical context of the book before presenting it. I do think it is stupid to ban the book outright or to declare Twain or his novels racist simply due to his use of the word "******." As I said, the same logic leads foolish people to ban To Kill a Mockingbird, which may possibly be the single greatest indictment of Southern racism ever written. (One parent at my own high school argued that Mockingbird should not be included in our curriculum due to its "racism." Thankfully, no one agreed with her, but it was rather pathetic that the argument had to happen at all. The parent in question, incidentally, was white.)

Agreed. :cool:

Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain) was without a doubt ANTI-RACIST

The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is an excellent book, an American classic that I love. It is about a trouble time and does use satire to critique the attitudes towards race at that time. The book is not racist and, as far as I know, Mark Twain was not particularly racist. I certainly don't support those that seek to ban the book.

Very much the opposite actually. He was quite the anti-racist...if that even works as a word.

Nonetheless, I can understand why some people have trouble celebrating a book that refers to them and people like them as "niggers." Telling people they are stupid for being sensitive to that word really only shows how clueless one is.

Do not misinterpret my post. I'm not calling them stupid for being sensitive to the word, but I am expressing exasperation that some of them--not all, and I'm not even sure it's the majority--takes it too sensitively.

Lest that come off as sounding bad, let me elaborate a little bit on that. What I mean by that is that some of them seem to take offense at the presence of the word without noticing and sometimes even deliberately ignoring the context of the word.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that they shouldn't take offense at the word so much as the meaning behind it.

Did that come out well?

That is not to say that no child should be exposed to the book or to any book that uses the term. Merely that it creates some understandable issues.

I suspect much of it has to do with a number teachers not dwelling on the satirical and anti-racist points of the book and teaching it merely because it's a great American classic. But as someone divorced from the public school system, I am not the most qualified to speak on the matter.

I've been watching this video in English class, to begin our study of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. The video is a sort of documentary about the controversy surrounding the book.

The controversy is mainly about how the book is teh 3vil because it uses the word "******". Some even take it farther and say the book is tainted because Mark Twain is a racist.

The second one especially deserves a WTF. I read a biography on him once and he was hardly what could be considered remotely racist. The other problem with making the "******" argumant the crux of the issue ignores the fact that it was also satire and was written to make an anti-racist point.

Thoughts?

It's the same BS pulled on books like "To Kill A Mockingbird" and such. People have divorced the language of the novel from its historical context... The novels highlight serious issues of the day in the format of a entertaining novel. Language is used in normal context of the period. But most cannot see past words used to the meaning behind the book, why the author wrote it, and the issues it tackles.