NationStates Jolt Archive

In response to the media's attempt to capture American attention, I think you guys should blame the toy companies' designs of the toys first before blaming the people who make them under the toy companies' design instructions. Mattel has claimed that it was their responsibility that the recalls were placed, and apologized personally to the Chinese Government.

However, not much Americans know about this because when this article hit the newspapers, they were located in the very back section where almost no one would locate it and let alone read it.

Feel free for comments, just please don't get out of hand until where you start insulting Chinese/American people.

If you can show the toy companies telling the Chinese to use lead, then you have a point.

The apology mentioned is more about keeping their foothold in China then about admitting to a wrong.

Knowing the costs of a recall, I have a hard time believing corporate bosses want to gamble on such a thing.

China is not exactly innocent if that is what you trying to suggest.....

If you can show the toy companies telling the Chinese to use lead, then you have a point.

Knowing the costs of a recall, I have a hard time believing corporate bosses want to gamble on such a thing.

China is not exactly innocent if that is what you trying to suggest.....

It's in the designs to use lead paint. However, anything about using lead paint above American limits were not given from the company.

It's in the designs to use lead paint.

Source.

BS. China should be monitoring its shit. Also, it's the Chinese people who are substituting poisonous crap because they get more money. Greedy bastards.

You want capitalism America, here it is as raw as ever, get used to it!

It's the toy companies fault for not watching out over their manufacturing contractors and also for designing toys that are easily swallowed, or have loose parts that can be swallowed.

Although china should crack down on the lead paint use.

In response to the media's attempt to capture American attention, I think you guys should blame the toy companies' designs of the toys first before blaming the people who make them under the toy companies' design instructions. Mattel has claimed that it was their responsibility that the recalls were placed, and apologized personally to the Chinese Government.

However, not much Americans know about this because when this article hit the newspapers, they were located in the very back section where almost no one would locate it and let alone read it.

Feel free for comments, just please don't get out of hand until where you start insulting Chinese/American people.

Doesn't matter much. The US has a severe trade debt to China, and a huge proportion of our currency is used by the Chinese to peg to the Yuan. If the Chinese ever converted to the Euro, say over Tiawan, the immediate effect would be a massed abandonment of the rapidly devaluing dollar, leading to a huge depression in the US (more than 50% of our currency is outside of the US)

The more we do to get our trade out of China, the better. It's a deathtrap.

BS. China should be monitoring its shit. Also, it's the Chinese people who are substituting poisonous crap because they get more money. Greedy bastards.


[Random member of "the chinese people" working in a sweatshop, since the SoBs are all involved!]

"Hrm...monitor our shit or make big money selling poisonous crap to over-consuming americans who love their products dirt-cheap, while we are starving?

Damn that's a hard decision..."

Also greedy? Funny...I'd say going for a Extra Large Happy Meal while a big part of the world is starving sounds pretty greedy too. So how about less Humvee's on the road so you can pay a little more for the crap they make. They might even stop poisoning you.

Am I overreacting. Hell yes, but I'll stop if you start to be a little less poor in your choice of words too.

[Random member of "the chinese people" working in a sweatshop, since the SoBs are all involved!]

"Hrm...monitor our shit or make big money selling poisonous crap to over-consuming americans who love their products dirt-cheap, while we are starving?

Damn that's a hard decision..."

Also greedy? Funny...I'd say going for a Extra Large Happy Meal while a big part of the world is starving sounds pretty greedy too. So how about less Humvee's on the road so you can pay a little more for the crap they make. They might even stop poisoning you.

Are you Chinese?

Are you Chinese?

Heh, can't somebody be a little indignified even when comments aren't made directly against him or his goverment? I thought the quotation marks would make it clear i used a fictional character to speak in the 1st person. Obviously that failed.

In my eyes you reap what you sow and if American consumers would boycott chinese products, maybe they will take a hint. Yet they won't, cheap prices are too much of an aphrodisiac so in my vision it's just two greedy people trying to get rich from eachother.

Also Dutch for your information so none of that "you've attacked my nationality" kind of non-sense. ;)

Also greedy? Funny...I'd say going for a Extra Large Happy Meal while a big part of the world is starving sounds pretty greedy too. So how about less Humvee's on the road so you can pay a little more for the crap they make. They might even stop poisoning you.

Am I overreacting. Hell yes, but I'll stop if you start to be a little less poor in your choice of words too.

Why does everybody think everybody eats at McD?

Humvees? I think you mean SUV.

Also, we aren't paying their wages. That's there own people doing that......

Why does everybody think everybody eats at McD?

Humvees? I think you mean SUV.

Also, we aren't paying their wages. That's there own people doing that......

Funny...did I say everyone eats at McDonalds? Or perhaps it's a way of saying America does suffer from issue with many overweight people?
Funny...isn't a Humvee an SUV? Or perhaps I just used a famous icon representing big cars in general?
Funny...don't their wages come from the fact that people must buy their products? Or doesn't logic apply suddenly?

Look, China certainly needs to get it's act right seeing as the mere thought of kids playing with poisoned toys is beyond awfull. But merely pointing the finger at them while thinking yourself completely without fault or the cause behind it sounds, quite frankly, arrogant to me.

No flames were intended and to America is fantastic in many regards and still that home of the brave and free and all that, but this seems like an issue both your nations (USA&China) need to resolve together instead of blaming a single party.

Funny...did I say everyone eats at McDonalds? Or perhaps it's a way of saying America does suffer from issue with many overweight people?

And yet everybody raises that company as the problem. It's part of it but it's more the fact that sugar is added to EVERYTHING. Big lesson with my wife went through gestational diabetes.


Funny...isn't a Humvee an SUV? Or perhaps I just used a famous icon representing big cars in general?

And yet you don't see that many of them as they are out of the price range of most people.


Funny...don't their wages come from the fact that people must buy their products? Or doesn't logic apply suddenly?

And how many times did you say "Wait. I will pay you *insert higher number* rather then what you asked for?"


Look, China certainly needs to get it's act right seeing as the mere thought of kids playing with poisoned toys is beyond awfull. But merely pointing the finger at them while thinking yourself completely without fault or the cause behind it sounds, quite frankly, arrogant to me.


So we have had poisoned food, pet food, tooth paste, toys and bad cars(well not really as we have them blocked but our companies keep trying); so how is that my fault?

So we have had poisoned food, pet food, tooth paste, toys and bad cars(well not really as we have them blocked but our companies keep trying); so how is that my fault?

For excepting things to remain dirt cheap and then buying them. Is it your fault direclty? How would I know since I don't know your spending habbits, but at large the public cannot except to keep buying ultra cheap products and think the quality will be top notch.

Either don't buy chinese products, boycott it to send a message or pay more for it so they can put measures to stop the faulty production. Either way you will end up paying more.

[Random member of "the chinese people" working in a sweatshop, since the SoBs are all involved!]

"Hrm...monitor our shit or make big money selling poisonous crap to over-consuming americans who love their products dirt-cheap, while we are starving?

Damn that's a hard decision..."

Also greedy? Funny...I'd say going for a Extra Large Happy Meal while a big part of the world is starving sounds pretty greedy too. So how about less Humvee's on the road so you can pay a little more for the crap they make. They might even stop poisoning you.

Am I overreacting. Hell yes, but I'll stop if you start to be a little less poor in your choice of words too.

The Chinese people aren't starving. If they were, half their population would be dead.

For excepting things to remain dirt cheap and then buying them. Is it your fault direclty? How would I know since I don't know your spending habbits, but at large the public cannot except to keep buying ultra cheap products and think the quality will be top notch.

Either don't buy chinese products, boycott it to send a message or pay more for it so they can put measures to stop the faulty production. Either way you will end up paying more.

Obviously its your fault buying items that are dirt cheap.

Ever heard of the "the more you pay, the more you get" phrase used? Well this lines up proportionally as it seems. The more you pay, the better quality it gets. China can't upgrade its quality if America still wants dirt cheap prices.

The lead paint are built within the designs by the toy companies. Don't blame China, it's not their fault that an American company came to them with a chart on how to make the toys with what in them. It's the toy company's responsibility for paying the Chinese contractors to monitor American limits of lead in their paint.

Obviously its your fault buying items that are dirt cheap.

Ever heard of the "the more you pay, the more you get" phrase used? Well this lines up proportionally as it seems. The more you pay, the better quality it gets. China can't upgrade its quality if America still wants dirt cheap prices.

The lead paint are built within the designs by the toy companies. Don't blame China, it's not their fault that an American company came to them with a chart on how to make the toys with what in them. It's the toy company's responsibility for paying the Chinese contractors to monitor American limits of lead in their paint.

And yet you still have not pointed to your source for Mattel telling their Chinese subcontractors to use lead paint -- it may be true, but we would like to see it.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20070922/ai_n20521660

http://www.asq.org/qualitynews/qnt/execute/displaySetup?newsID=2132

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/sep/22/china.retail

Just the random few I can find myself. There are alot more though but the above should be reliable enough.

If the op gives it more time he can probably find better sources.
Also while I agree with Leocardia upon the subject of Mattel, there still is the matter of other deficient products ofcourse which dont come with a faulty build plan. Although my point about American consumers needing to pay more still stands.

PS: Not quite sure why you quoted me in your last post Leocardia, because you agree there? As for the chinese people starving, blame that comment on the art of overreacting as I stated in that post. Yet I can imagine that being barely able to provide for yourself isn't all that attractive as well.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20070922/ai_n20521660

http://www.asq.org/qualitynews/qnt/execute/displaySetup?newsID=2132

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/sep/22/china.retail

The problem is that "A Design flaw" is a flaw in the design of the toy. small magnets and/or parts that can be swallowed is a design flaw and was never pushed by the media as a fault of Chinese Manufacturing. Mattel has taken responsiblity of those design flaws and I for one, commend them for their sense of responsibility.

However does those design flaws specifically called for paint heavy with lead to be used? or for the toys to be laced with drugs? or for hazardous materials to be used in that construction? Your articles never state that it was the case.

None of your articles state what the OP is trying to push. That the Chinese Government is blameless for what happened. Even the articles admit in flaws in the equiptment used to manufacture the toys was blamed.

When a stuffed toy can be easily torn apart due to poor stitching and the hazardous material that was used as stuffing can now be swallowed by children, would that be a design flaw or a manufacturing flaw?

The lead paint are built within the designs by the toy companies. Don't blame China, it's not their fault that an American company came to them with a chart on how to make the toys with what in them. It's the toy company's responsibility for paying the Chinese contractors to monitor American limits of lead in their paint.

Prove that Lead baised paint is specifically called for in the design of any toy.
Prove that the Design of "Aquadots" specifically calls for those chemicals to be used.

Prove that Lead baised paint is specifically called for in the design of any toy.
Prove that the Design of "Aquadots" specifically calls for those chemicals to be used.

The AquaDots is designed by Mattel's instructions. They apologized for the flaw.

However, I didn't say lead paint was specifically called in for the design, the toy companies didn't mention a thing not to use lead paint on their toys, nor did they sign in their deal with Chinese contractors that they must abide American limits.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20070922/ai_n20521660

http://www.asq.org/qualitynews/qnt/execute/displaySetup?newsID=2132

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/sep/22/china.retail

Just the random few I can find myself. There are alot more though but the above should be reliable enough.

If the op gives it more time he can probably find better sources.
Also while I agree with Leocardia upon the subject of Mattel, there still is the matter of other deficient products ofcourse which dont come with a faulty build plan. Although my point about American consumers needing to pay more still stands.

PS: Not quite sure why you quoted me in your last post Leocardia, because you agree there? As for the chinese people starving, blame that comment on the art of overreacting as I stated in that post. Yet I can imagine that being barely able to provide for yourself isn't all that attractive as well.

Well, using the North Koreans as example, they are starving. At least the dictatorial government is still feeding them whenever food is available. But their sources are scarce, and their economy is imploded.

Brilliant colours are traditionally manufactured using transition or other heavy metals. Organic dyes are obviously the way to go these days, but these are naturally more expensive. Although it is the natural order of things that capitalism should always seek more for less, you simply can't go out on a whim and convert to organic dyes when none of your competitors will for this very reason. It would therefore be interesting to see whether using lead-based pigments is actually illegal in China, the US, Australia etc, because otherwise it seems to be more of an anti-China campaign.

While we're on the subject of toxicity, what about the Canadian asbestos mines that receive government subsidy and export almost exclusively to developing nations? I wonder whose fantastic idea it was to use lead as a valve-saving additive in petrol? You could still buy it here in Australia until roughly 10 years ago and it was perfectly fine for kids to go walking around breathing that shit in. Yet, the exposure to lead from these toys is probably minimal (no studies exist, to my knowledge, to test this).

Who is to blame? Anybody with a financial interest in these toys.

Well, using the North Koreans as example, they are starving. At least the dictatorial government is still feeding them whenever food is available. But their sources are scarce, and their economy is imploded.Not to be nitpicky, but they'd probably have more food if it weren't for their isolationist, dictatorial government. Besides, as far as I know most of the food that is available goes to the military, so that statement appears a bit false to me.

Greedy corporate interests along with greedy Chinese manufacturers, a recipe for this kind of fiasco. The people who suffer are those poor workers who have deal with worst of that lead paint.

The AquaDots is designed by Mattel's instructions. They apologized for the flaw.

However, I didn't say lead paint was specifically called in for the design, the toy companies didn't mention a thing not to use lead paint on their toys, nor did they sign in their deal with Chinese contractors that they must abide American limits.

Orly?

It's in the designs to use lead paint. However, anything about using lead paint above American limits were not given from the company.

Obviously its your fault buying items that are dirt cheap.

Ever heard of the "the more you pay, the more you get" phrase used? Well this lines up proportionally as it seems. The more you pay, the better quality it gets. China can't upgrade its quality if America still wants dirt cheap prices.

The lead paint are built within the designs by the toy companies. Don't blame China, it's not their fault that an American company came to them with a chart on how to make the toys with what in them. It's the toy company's responsibility for paying the Chinese contractors to monitor American limits of lead in their paint.


You're not ranting into a vacuum here, what you say sticks around. One could even say you just painted yourself into a corner.

The AquaDots is designed by Mattel's instructions. They apologized for the flaw. WRONG!!!
Aquadots are not designed by Mattel!
and the Chinese Manufacturer has taken the responsiblity of the chemical coating.
show me where the "Design" calls for the chemical composition of GHB to be used!

and your stating it is not "PROOF".

However, I didn't say lead paint was specifically called in for the design, the toy companies didn't mention a thing not to use lead paint on their toys, nor did they sign in their deal with Chinese contractors that they must abide American limits.
WRONG AGAIN!!!
per your previous posts, you stated that Lead Paint was called for in the Designs and thus NOT China's fault.

It's in the designs to use lead paint. However, anything about using lead paint above American limits were not given from the company.

The lead paint are built within the designs by the toy companies. Don't blame China, it's not their fault that an American company came to them with a chart on how to make the toys with what in them. It's the toy company's responsibility for paying the Chinese contractors to monitor American limits of lead in their paint.

Edit: Whoops, didn't see your reply Khadgar. ;)

Edit: Whoops, didn't see your reply Khadgar. ;)

Figured you were just ignoring the lame joke. :D

Figured you were just ignoring the lame joke. :D

hehehe... well, you can just color me blind. :p

In response to the media's attempt to capture American attention, I think you guys should blame the toy companies' designs of the toys first before blaming the people who make them under the toy companies' design instructions. Mattel has claimed that it was their responsibility that the recalls were placed, and apologized personally to the Chinese Government.

However, not much Americans know about this because when this article hit the newspapers, they were located in the very back section where almost no one would locate it and let alone read it.

Feel free for comments, just please don't get out of hand until where you start insulting Chinese/American people.

Not for your reasons, but the principle, I agree with.

Why are we treating toy companies as heroes?

If ther really cared about the quality of their product, they wouldn't be sacrificing quality for profit. They'd be having the toys made HERE in the US, where we have tighter quality control. They'd be quality assessing their product constantly.

Instead, they choose to get the material from a cheaper market that they know lacks our quality control. And they don't even monitor the quality of the product when they ship it?

Toy companies entirely complicit. They are choosing to traffic in potentially dangerous material, and lack the consideration to even monitor what they are trading.

Don't blame China. If they make crappy toys, why are US companies buying them to sell here?

The toy companies are not heroes. They are criminals. Recalling your product isn't heroic, it's cheaper than the lawsuits. Blaming the Chinese factories isn't heroic, it's relying on American egocentrism to hide questions like "Why don't you monitor quality, yourselves?"