NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article2947734.ece
I know it's another 'muslims get wound up over smallest detail' story, but it's still fairly alarming that a 54 year old woman is facing 40 lashes plus the possibility of a fine and jail time for letting her pupils call a toy bear Muhammed. I mean it's not as though it's not a common name for children.

I think the teddy bear should administer the lashes. *nod*

Not much of a surprise. Probably not even news -- in the Sudan. This is just another example of why Moslem fundamentalists aren't ready to coexist with Westerners.

Oh no! She brought democracy to the people! :eek:

Yes, the children voted in favour of it. There were 23 votes and 20 were for the name selected.

She shouldn't be lashed, she should be stoned. And when I say stoned, I mean she should have 40 to 50 teddy bears thrown at her, whilst she smokes weed.

She shouldn't be lashed, she should be stoned. And when I say stoned, I mean she should have 40 to 50 teddy bears thrown at her, whilst she smokes weed.

http://wavcentral.com/sounds/movies/modern_problems/ccyes.mp3

They shopuld lash the fajir(s) who handed out the sentence instead.

I would personally like to send the barbarians that voted for these lashes a shipment of one thousand pigs each named Muhammed branded with a verse from the Koran. Perhaps with a defiled Koran to boot.

I think the teddy bear should administer the lashes. *nod*

Like this? (http://www.badtastebears.com/gallery/numbered/miss)

Like this? (http://www.badtastebears.com/gallery/numbered/miss)
Dammit, another thing for the list of things that can never be unseen by these eyes. :p

Like this? (http://www.badtastebears.com/gallery/numbered/miss)

That is just wrong on so many levels.:eek:

Why would it be blasphemy to name a teddy Mohammed, but not a child? Meh. Some people are just so insecure about their identities.

Oh, and there's the teeny tiny fact that she will only face punishment if convicted. Plus there's probably a fairly high chance that Sudan will deport her rather than risk a diplomatic incident by punishing her in Sudan.

I don't feel like reading the article, so I have a question: Is it because she, like the cartoon guy, gave him a face?

Why would it be blasphemy to name a teddy Mohammed, but not a child? Meh. Some people are just so insecure about their identities.

Oh, and there's the teeny tiny fact that she will only face punishment if convicted. Plus there's probably a fairly high chance that Sudan will deport her rather than risk a diplomatic incident by punishing her in Sudan.

Probably something to do with reincarnation and the possible return of the prophet, hence, preparation by naming the child according. *shrug*

A little insensitive and imprudent of the teacher, but nonetheless, I am quite appalled. It is really quite saddening that such views exist, and are accepted and endorsed, in a transnational context.

A little insensitive and imprudent of the teacher, but nonetheless, I am quite appalled. It is really quite saddening that such views exist, and are accepted and endorsed, in a transnational context.

How are they accepted in a transnational context?

How are they accepted in a transnational context?

Across the Middle East?:rolleyes:

Gosh, did we have to think for ourselves? Heaven Forfend!!!

Oh comon, The Muslim need to get a grip. You don't see Christian getting outraged every time a Mexican names his kid Jesus! :D

*tiddy boom*

Across the Middle East?:rolleyes:

Gosh, did we have to think for ourselves? Heaven Forfend!!!

Ah, the Middle East. The home of loose restrictions on exchange of infomation, migration and international corporations.

Oh comon, The Muslim need to get a grip. You don't see Christian getting outraged every time a Mexican names his kid Jesus! :D

*tiddy boom*

That's because it's a kid and NOT a teddy bear.

Not much of a surprise. Probably not even news -- in the Sudan. This is just another example of why Moslem fundamentalists aren't ready to coexist with Westerners.

Christian fundamentalists aren't any better. Unfortunately, they DO live mixed in with civilization.

Probably something to do with reincarnation and the possible return of the prophet, hence, preparation by naming the child according. *shrug*Oh, I was fairly sure that Islam views Mohammed as the last prophet sent by Allah, and that there is no reincarnation nor any second coming.

A little insensitive and imprudent of the teacher, but nonetheless, I am quite appalled. It is really quite saddening that such views exist, and are accepted and endorsed, in a transnational context.Perhaps imprudent, but not insensitive. I believe the complaints regarding her are more political in nature than religious. That is, she is a Western Christian teaching the children of Muslims who have had to send their child to a Christian charity school. This all in a country that faces much condemnation from the West over the situation in Darfur.

I'm surprised the stupid motherfuckers don't want to give 40 lashes to the kids in the classroom too.

Stupid fucking religions...ugh...

I know it's another 'muslims get wound up over smallest detail' story.

Incorrect. It's another "Countries without separation between church and state get wound up over smallest detail' story.

Proof? Indonesia and Malaysia are both very Muslim (Not Moslem, Myrmi, after all the "let's bash them browns" threads you made one would think you'd learn how to write the word) countries and neither has this kind of incident. Conversely, China, an ATHEIST country, promotes religious persecution, because the State has an official belief system (in Nothing, but a belief system nonetheless).

Word of advice: If the US Right succeeds at demolishing the wall between Church and State in the US, the SAME will happen there as it happens in the Sudan.

Stupid fucking religions...ugh...

The common e-Atheist* whines about religion and how "stupid it is" while simultaneously whining about how theists don't know what their talking about. Hypocrisy I must say.

*Notice "e-Atheist". Real-life Atheists are actually smart

Disgusting barbarian muslim pigs.

Anyone still surprised about the Islam being called retarded, backward and Medieval?

By you and other bigoted people, no.

Disgusting barbarian muslim pigs.

Anyone still surprised about the Islam being called retarded, backward and Medieval?

Disgusting barbarian muslim pigs.

Anyone still surprised about the Islam being called retarded, backward and Medieval?

The Muslims made the majority of the scientific discoveries in Medieval times - back when Europe still was afraid of fire.

Incorrect. It's another "Countries without separation between church and state get wound up over smallest detail' story.

Proof? Indonesia and Malaysia are both very Muslim (Not Moslem, Myrmi, after all the "let's bash them browns" threads you made one would think you'd learn how to write the word) countries and neither has this kind of incident. Conversely, China, an ATHEIST country, promotes religious persecution, because the State has an official belief system (in Nothing, but a belief system nonetheless).

Word of advice: If the US Right succeeds at demolishing the wall between Church and State in the US, the SAME will happen there as it happens in the Sudan.
I'd think with your education, you'd be able to avoid the nonsense of PC. Moslem is an accepted term for the followers of Mohammed. In fact, it was the preferred spelling when I learned it. In fact, it's still well used by the AMF -- American Moslem Foundation.

Anyway, the challenge here, is not to remove the barrier between church and state, but to ignore the professional victims that seem to think that a creche in a town square makes Christianity a state-sponsored religion.

There's a long way to slide before we start having judges sentence homosexuals to stonings and imprison teachers for naming Teddy bears incorrectly.

This isn't one of those issues which is disproved by exceptions. We're still looking at a lot of cultural differences that make it impossible for a great number of Moslems to live in harmony in the West. Maybe South East Asians are more tolerant than South West Asians or Africans? I don't know. But I do know that we don't have to look very hard to find a story about some instance of intolerance in the Wonderful World of Islam...

Incorrect. It's another "Countries without separation between church and state get wound up over smallest detail' story.

Proof? Indonesia and Malaysia are both very Muslim (Not Moslem, Myrmi, after all the "let's bash them browns" threads you made one would think you'd learn how to write the word) countries and neither has this kind of incident. Conversely, China, an ATHEIST country, promotes religious persecution, because the State has an official belief system (in Nothing, but a belief system nonetheless).

Word of advice: If the US Right succeeds at demolishing the wall between Church and State in the US, the SAME will happen there as it happens in the Sudan.
We've not got separation of church and state and we don't flog people for blasphemy. Admittedly we did fine some people about 30 years ago, and arrested a woman in ww2 for witchcraft, but not much in the way of flogging.

Proof? Indonesia and Malaysia are both very Muslim (Not Moslem, Myrmi, after all the "let's bash them browns" threads you made one would think you'd learn how to write the word) countries and neither has this kind of incident.

They also have sharia inspired laws like "A non-muslim cannot marry a muslim without converting to islam".

Family divided due to such laws...husband and wife forcibly separated after 21 years

http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/07/05/04/10122772.html
Kuala Lumpur: Authorities in Malaysia gave a Hindu man married to a Muslim woman custody of their children yesterday, in a landmark decision for minority rights, after the couple had been forcibly separated citing their religious beliefs.

The decision was announced at an emotional hearing in the High Court attended by the ethnic Indian couple, Marimuthu Periasamy and Raimah Bibi Noordin, both rubber tappers who had been happily married for 21 years.

The case is the latest in a series of conflicts involving the religious rights of minority groups that is straining ties in multi-ethnic Malaysia, where Islam is the dominant religion.

Authorities took away Raimah Bibi and six of her seven children for counselling on April 2 on the grounds that her marriage with Marimuthu was illegal.

At the hearing on Tuesday, Raimah Bibi, 39, broke down and sobbed openly when the judge asked her if she would give up custody of her seven children, who are aged between four and 14. "Yes, I agree to surrender my children."

Marimuthu had filed an application demanding that the Islamic Affairs Department bring his wife and children to court. The department indicated that the couple could not be allowed to live together because Marimuthu did not convert to Islam as required by law for their marriage to be legal.

calls for full-blown Sharia
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3263785.stm

moral police
http://malaysia-today.net/blog2006/newsncom.php?itemid=338

The Muslims made the majority of the scientific discoveries in Medieval times - back when Europe still was afraid of fire.

Indeed. I might also note that the Islamic world preserved much of the Greco-Roman academic and scientific legacy that the Latin west saw fit to first neglect, and then burn.

The Muslims made the majority of the scientific discoveries in Medieval times - back when Europe still was afraid of fire.
And they've been trying to ignore that progress for at least a millennium.

The Muslims made the majority of the scientific discoveries in Medieval times - back when Europe still was afraid of fire.

Though I'm guessing, if my observations are correct, that modern-day Europe is quite a bit more advanced and civilized than the muslim world is at the moment. ;)

Though I'm guessing, if my observations are correct, that modern-day Europe is quite a bit more advanced and civilized than the muslim world is at the moment. ;)

That's aside from the point. I'm trying to say that Muslims aren't idiots. In fact, the Shia Imam Jafar As-Sadiq was the first in the "Medieval World" to present a spherical Earth model.

That's aside from the point. I'm trying to say that Muslims aren't idiots. In fact, the Shia Imam Jafar As-Sadiq was the first in the "Medieval World" to present a spherical Earth model.

No, what you're saying is that Moslems were not idiots. There certainly was a great deal of scientific and literary effort that is now almost completely ignored and abandoned by practitioners of that faith.

That's aside from the point. I'm trying to say that Muslims aren't idiots. In fact, the Shia Imam Jafar As-Sadiq was the first in the "Medieval World" to present a spherical Earth model.
Well considering, as has been mentioned, they preserved a lot of the classical and hellenistic learning, that's not surprising. Pythagoras, Plato and Aristotle recognised the Earth to be spherical.

That's aside from the point. I'm trying to say that Muslims aren't idiots. In fact, the Shia Imam Jafar As-Sadiq was the first in the "Medieval World" to present a spherical Earth model.

It is quite amusing that you have to show examples of how innovative the muslims were 1000 years ago in order to prove they aren't behaving like idiots in this age :P

Well considering, as has been mentioned, they preserved a lot of the classical and hellenistic learning, that's not surprising. Pythagoras, Plato and Aristotle recognised the Earth to be spherical.

So did the Hindu Upanishads. However, Jafar as-Sadiq was the first in the Medieval World to actually accept these ideas and prove them with mathematics.

It is quite amusing that you have to show examples of how innovative the muslims were 1000 years ago in order to prove they aren't behaving like idiots in this age :P

I could show the actions of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhist, and even Atheists that show that at least one of the members of those groups is an idiot. Does these mean that they all are?

So did the Hindu Upanishads. However, Jafar as-Sadiq was the first in the Medieval World to actually accept these ideas and prove them with mathematics.
Don't know about proving that the world was round, but Eratosthenes measured the circumference of the earth by taking the angle of the sun at two places, to quite a bit of accuracy.

I could show the actions of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhist, and even Atheists that show that at least one of the members of those groups is an idiot. Does these mean that they all are?

Except that modernday Christian - or originally Christian - countries (most of europe and sometimes the USA too) are not as generally backward and medieval as most of the Islamic countries are... where they live in huts, flog women for being raped and hang boys for being gay... I'm sorry but I see such actions as backward and barbaric. Can't help it. Sorry!

No, what you're saying is that Moslems were not idiots. There certainly was a great deal of scientific and literary effort that is now almost completely ignored and abandoned by practitioners of that faith.

The same can be said of every single religious affiliation except Agnosticism. Religion relies entirely on ignoring certain bits of science and literature. And Atheists can be indicted for ignoring the occasional bit of something that seems like an act of god.

No, what you're saying is that Moslems were not idiots. There certainly was a great deal of scientific and literary effort that is now almost completely ignored and abandoned by practitioners of that faith.
So what are you saying? That muslims are idiots? Or that you become an idiot if you become a muslim?

Except that modernday Christian - or originally Christian - countries (most of europe and sometimes the USA too) are not as generally backward and medieval as most of the Islamic countries are... where they live in huts, flog women for being raped and hang boys for being gay... I'm sorry but I see such actions as backward and barbaric. Can't help it. Sorry!

Yeah, you should be sorry. Your sweeping generalizations encompassing over 1.8 billion people in about 49 countries are quite impressive - in a bigoted and ignorant kind of way.

But hey, offer proof that they "they live in huts, flog women for being raped and hang boys for being gay" in most of the countries, and you may appear less silly.

Except that modernday Christian - or originally Christian - countries (most of europe and sometimes the USA too) are not as generally backward and medieval as most of the Islamic countries are... where they live in huts, flog women for being raped and hang boys for being gay... I'm sorry but I see such actions as backward and barbaric. Can't help it. Sorry!

Americans still do those things. Maybe in a more metaphorical way, but still. Gay people are ostracized and can be threatened with violence depending on where they live, woman are still beaten. Instead of huts we have trailer parks.

We like to pretend we're light years ahead of them, but really, we're not much better.

Except that modernday Christian - or originally Christian - countries (most of europe and sometimes the USA too) are not as generally backward and medieval as most of the Islamic countries are... where they live in huts, flog women for being raped and hang boys for being gay... I'm sorry but I see such actions as backward and barbaric. Can't help it. Sorry!

No, modern day Islamic countries are not medieval. Islamic countries weren't medieval back in the Middle Ages, and they certainly fallen back that much.

Also, Muslims don't live in huts, we live in houses. (Except for the occasional desert nomad) Women aren't flogged for being raped, they are flogged for being with an unrelated man, and the man is flogged too. (Although I disagree with the law) If rape is proven, the penalties are quite severe (but in many cases it is difficult for the women to prove her case, this is wrong and unfair, but the reality). And homosexuals, while wrongly persecuted, are not routinely executed.


As for the article, people have been leaving out a couple important details. First of all, the women has been charged of a crime, not convicted, so she isn't necessarily going to get flogged. As well, 40 is the upper limit, if it does end up happening it could be far less. Also, the school was having some conflicts with the government previously, so it's quite possible that she got tangled in all of this. Some teachers also appear not to like her so much, and may simply be trying to get her punished. Finally, she has some convincing arguments on her side. It has been said that she had the name Muhammed put on the bear, and she has said that she did not. And personally, I dont see anything wrong with the bear being name Muhammed (after all, the children are showing their affection for the prophet by choosing his name). There's already been a lot of misrepresentation of the issue, and this thread is only beginning.

That's because it's a kid and NOT a teddy bear.

Teddy bears are a lot cleaner, and a lot quieter, what's the problem?

It is quite amusing that you have to show examples of how innovative the muslims were 1000 years ago in order to prove they aren't behaving like idiots in this age :P

By your logic black people have become stupider since 500 years ago

What do you expect from them? Mohammad (who deserves no peace upon him) had poets killed, because they spoke ill against him.

I bet we could use some helicopters and airplanes to make sure that these judges never hand out another sentence like this one.

What do you expect from them? Mohammad (who deserves no peace upon him) had poets killed, because they spoke ill against him.

:rolleyes:
You're not serious are you?

I bet we could use some helicopters and airplanes to make sure that these judges never hand out another sentence like this one.

Have they given a sentence in the last few hours?

:rolleyes:
You're not serious are you?

I am very serious. Or maybe I should bring up the point about the Christian that wrote several surahs for Mohammad, and then ended up going back to christianity, only to say that Mo-mo was pretty much ignorant, and then that guy mysteriously died by an act of Allah..More like an act of the sword of Mo.

:rolleyes:

There was a time I thought you were not a bigot. But alas, you may be lost.

I'm not a bigot!

I'll tell you something that someone on here told me once. Most of western Muslims you know are truly better people than Mohammad could ever have been, and its sad to see them think themselves held accountable to such a man's teachings.

If you want me to provide hadith(the reliable ones) to prove that Mo did some horrible stuff, (also to prove that I am not a Bigot, but going by what is written in Islamic history), I can. Heck, if you want, I'll tg you a nice little link with everything you can imagine about Mo and his version of Islam, versus moderate, nice Islam.

I am very serious. Or maybe I should bring up the point about the Christian that wrote several surahs for Mohammad, and then ended up going back to christianity, only to say that Mo-mo was pretty much ignorant, and then that guy mysteriously died by an act of Allah..More like an act of the sword of Mo.

:rolleyes:

There was a time I thought you were not a bigot. But alas, you may be lost.

I'm not a bigot!

I'll tell you something that someone on here told me once. Most of western Muslims you know are truly better people than Mohammad could ever have been, and its sad to see them think themselves held accountable to such a man's teachings.

If you want me to provide hadith(the reliable ones) to prove that Mo did some horrible stuff, (also to prove that I am not a Bigot, but going by what is written in Islamic history), I can. Heck, if you want, I'll tg you a nice little link with everything you can imagine about Mo and his version of Islam, versus moderate, nice Islam.

I'd like to see it.

I'd like to see it.

Alright, expect some tgs to start flooding your way in a bit :)

I am very serious. Or maybe I should bring up the point about the Christian that wrote several surahs for Mohammad, and then ended up going back to christianity, only to say that Mo-mo was pretty much ignorant, and then that guy mysteriously died by an act of Allah..More like an act of the sword of Mo.

religion is evil, ect. ect.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

religion is evil, ect. ect.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

Last time I checked, there are more religions than just Christianity and Islam.

Last time I checked, there are more religions than just Christianity and Islam.

Opiate for the masses

actually in reality I don't think religion is evil, or Isam/Christianity. Why I said that I don't know I feel semi drunk right now

The bible and the Koran are like Pepsi and CocaCola

This is an outrage!

It's the children that should be whipped.

And Atheists can be indicted for ignoring the occasional bit of something that seems like an act of god.
Do you have any evidence of that? I wasn't aware that looking for a logical explanation for something could be classified as ignoring it.

I bet we could use some helicopters and airplanes to make sure that these judges never hand out another sentence like this one.

BWAHAHAHA!!!

You can't use some helicopters and airplanes to stop a possible frickin' genocide, but when one (white) teacher may recieve up to 40 lashes you wish to call in the air cavalry! :rolleyes:

Nah, such a verdict should not be handed down, but military action is not the answer either.

Do you have any evidence of that? I wasn't aware that looking for a logical explanation for something could be classified as ignoring it.

So when Atheists explain something, it's logical, but when a theist explains something, it's just stupidity?

So when Atheists explain something, it's logical, but when a theist explains something, it's just stupidity?

No. When atheists explain something, we use logic and evidence.

When a theist explains something, it usually consists of "god did it".

Wait...

Opiate for the masses

actually in reality I don't think religion is evil, or Isam/Christianity. Why I said that I don't know I feel semi drunk right now

The bible and the Koran are like Pepsi and CocaCola

The correct phrase is "opium of the people". However, some translations of it do say masses.

The complete line: Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people.

I don't understand why people go to live in such hell-holes to begin with. Especially women.

its not like she named the bear Kitchener

Can't people just keep thier faith private, I do. However if someone asks I'll tell them, seriously though it's great to get a lecture on how evil my religion is. Let's remove our obvious anti christian bias and admit it we shouldn't hate christians or muslim or any other religion....except of mormans grr they make me angry. Oh and the bear should get the lashes, if a chick can get lashes for being raped a bear can get lashes for being named.

p.s has anyone seen that "The life and times of jesus" video, aparently theres a Mohammed one, only he doesn't appear in any shots and he never talks. how does he talk you ask, simple "Wow Mohammed just said..." says a random guy on screen. Actually i would recomend anyone to watch that video if you need a laugh. Holy crap my p.s was nearly longer than my actual message.

Though I'm guessing, if my observations are correct, that modern-day Europe is quite a bit more advanced and civilized than the muslim world is at the moment. ;)

Yes, but most of Europe wasn't kept illiterate for hundreds of years while being ruled over by an autocratic caste by Ottoman Overlords. Check out the history of the Ottoman empire and the middle east, the whole populace has been trying to pull itself out of illiteracy and chaos for the past eighty years.

Are the Muslim countries full of religious zealotry? Yes, but Europe was too when simular conditions reigned in the middle ages. That's when Christians too were burning people at the stake for asking such questions as "Should the church really have so much money?" and "Should I be allowed to read the bible too instead of just the priests?"

As for Sudan and Africa, that continent is going to remain in Dark Ages Europe style chaos (or Wild West if you prefer a more modern date) until a strong central government takes over a large portion of continent,puts down the rebels, and provides a descent infrastructure for the people.

Africa will see a leader in its future, be it a Washington, a Napoleon, or a Hitler.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article2947734.ece
I know it's another 'muslims get wound up over smallest detail' story, but it's still fairly alarming that a 54 year old woman is facing 40 lashes plus the possibility of a fine and jail time for letting her pupils call a toy bear Muhammed. I mean it's not as though it's not a common name for children.

i know right this was way beyond the line, i mean the sudanis are already on thin ice cus of darfur

I would personally like to send the barbarians that voted for these lashes a shipment of one thousand pigs each named Muhammed branded with a verse from the Koran. Perhaps with a defiled Koran to boot.

hey dont do that :mad::upyours: nice muslims dont deserve that!

I'm surprised the stupid motherfuckers don't want to give 40 lashes to the kids in the classroom too.

Stupid fucking religions...ugh...

huh?

Though I'm guessing, if my observations are correct, that modern-day Europe is quite a bit more advanced and civilized than the muslim world is at the moment. ;)

well yo did invade us and control us for a while does that count?

:upyours::upyours::upyours:Except that modernday Christian - or originally Christian - countries (most of europe and sometimes the USA too) are not as generally backward and medieval as most of the Islamic countries are... where they live in huts, flog women for being raped and hang boys for being gay... I'm sorry but I see such actions as backward and barbaric. Can't help it. Sorry!

what huts retard! also it is the extremist faith in saudi that did that do go fuck yourself!:mad::mad::mad:

What do you expect from them? Mohammad (who deserves no peace upon him) had poets killed, because they spoke ill against him.
you are3 being very insulting... to me... :mad:

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::upyours::upyours::upyours::upyours::upyours:I am very serious. Or maybe I should bring up the point about the Christian that wrote several surahs for Mohammad, and then ended up going back to christianity, only to say that Mo-mo was pretty much ignorant, and then that guy mysteriously died by an act of Allah..More like an act of the sword of Mo.

STOP CALLING THE PROPHET MO-MO OK YOU ASSHOLE! OR I'LL RIP YOU A NEW ONE !

I'm not a bigot!

I'll tell you something that someone on here told me once. Most of western Muslims you know are truly better people than Mohammad could ever have been, and its sad to see them think themselves held accountable to such a man's teachings.

If you want me to provide hadith(the reliable ones) to prove that Mo did some horrible stuff, (also to prove that I am not a Bigot, but going by what is written in Islamic history), I can. Heck, if you want, I'll tg you a nice little link with everything you can imagine about Mo and his version of Islam, versus moderate, nice Islam.

you are a bigot and also think back to the culture then and the culture now please

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::upyours::upyours::upyours::upyours::upyours:

STOP CALLING THE PROPHET MO-MO OK YOU ASSHOLE! OR I'LL RIP YOU A NEW ONE !

Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo

What are you going to do? E-threaten me? Or e-rip-me-a-new-one?

Interesting turn of events in this here thread...

you are a bigot and also think back to the culture then and the culture now please

Brave Knight, I have a quest for thee. Travel forth into the realm of grammar, and learn at the feet of the punctuation fairy. After this, you must brave Capital Letter chasm to learn how to use the shift key of legend.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::upyours::upyours::upyours::upyours::upyours:

STOP CALLING THE PROPHET MO-MO OK YOU ASSHOLE! OR I'LL RIP YOU A NEW ONE !Jeez, chill. What's wrong with you?

She shouldn't be lashed, she should be stoned. And when I say stoned, I mean she should have 40 to 50 teddy bears thrown at her, whilst she smokes weed.

Can't help my remind me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3ehJZJIkPk

Interesting turn of events in this here thread...

It's Muslim baiting. The Western World's brand new sport, even more popular than football.

It's Muslim baiting. The Western World's brand new sport, even more popular than football.

Meh. I can't speak for others, and I'm sure ignorance does abound as ever, but all the same, I'd have attempted to bait the poster above whoever eh was, and whatever faith he was defending.

54 year old teacher faces 40 lashes for calling a teddy bear Muhammed? It makes me so angry that I feel that I want to wage nuclear war on Sudan... :headbang:

:upyours:

what huts retard! also it is the extremist faith in saudi that did that do go fuck yourself!:mad::mad::mad:

:upyours::upyours::upyours::upyours::upyours:

STOP CALLING THE PROPHET MO-MO OK YOU ASSHOLE! OR I'LL RIP YOU A NEW ONE !

Try debating their assertions, not flaming. You seem like you need a break, so I'll give you the day off to cool down.

Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo
Mo-Mo

What are you going to do? E-threaten me? Or e-rip-me-a-new-one?

You get a day off for flamebaiting.

NationStates Forum Moderator
HotRodia

54 year old teacher faces 40 lashes for calling a teddy bear Muhammed? It makes me so angry that I feel that I want to wage nuclear war on Sudan... :headbang:

Yes, and let's forget that the southern part of Sudan isn't run by Islamist fruitcakes who embrace an ages old religion as an excuse for their backwards barbarism.

On the other hand, I am surprised someone actually blamed the country rather than the religion that's being scapegoated by both sides for a change. It's a refreshing change from reading countless posters who buy into the Ayaan Ali Hirsi Biased Sample of "These Assholes Claim to be Muslim, So That Means All Muslims Are Assholes Too" so they can finally sanctimoniously masturbate to something they perceive as Inferior.

you are being very insulting... to me... :mad:this is NSG, if you keep taking things personally you are going to be eaten alive.. you can stand your ground without loosing your cool.

BTW.. sometimes the best defense is offense. Dont get mad, get even.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7117430.stm

Update to the story. Please note that she has NOT been convicted, or sentenced to anything. Shame, this morning the Sudanese government was saying that charges would probably be dropped, but it seems like the clerics are going with a conspiracy theory.

IMHO it seems mostly like a political powerplay more than anything else which the poor teacher happens to be caught up in, and should not be taken as a reflection of Islam rather an issue with the country itself (though really it shouldn't take a British teacher getting arrested to raise public opinion against the regime, when Darfur hasn't). For a start, most Muslims groups seem to consider this reaction to be as overboard as everyone else does:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7115821.stm

STOP CALLING THE PROPHET MO-MO OK YOU ASSHOLE! OR I'LL RIP YOU A NEW ONE !

I believe Aisha was allowed to do that whenever she played with her teddybear.
Why can we not have an affectionate name for him ?

Rogue Protos is effectively displaying the attitude of the muslim world. Make fun of our religion, and we will hurt you.

Does this sound like a peace loving religion to you?

Christianity is mocked constantly on television, in the newspaper and on the radio, and you don't see public beheadings over that.

Basically they are saying, You will die for what I believe.

I understand where the muslims are coming from BUT it isn't at all a big deal - I dont get deeply offended if someone called a toy Jesus
Also surley lashing is against the human rights or something - I think it's disgusting.

Christianity is mocked constantly on television, in the newspaper and on the radio, and you don't see public beheadings over that.

Well.. one does see calls to banish movies. Like the upcoming golden compass; which indeed is based on a non-Christian friendly novel.

Well.. one does see calls to banish movies. Like the upcoming golden compass; which indeed is based on a non-Christian friendly novel.

I know some Christians are boycotting it, but I wasn't aware of calls to ban it.

I believe Aisha was allowed to do that whenever she played with her teddybear.
Why can we not have an affectionate name for him ?

Mooky?

I know some Christians are boycotting it, but I wasn't aware of calls to ban it.

There are. Then again, I indeed do not see many lashings or bombings.
Except in places like Northern Ireland.

Mooky?

Better than hammy :)
And it does convey the message of peace and love Islam claims to stand for.

There are. Then again, I indeed do not see many lashings or bombings.

I'd appreciate links, if you have them.

Except in places like Northern Island.

You mean Northern Ireland, yes?

You mean Northern Ireland, yes?

*bangs head against wall*. You are quite correct.

I will check the sources of some newspapers for the links.
Edit: no reliable links found so far. Which means I hereby apologize (but reserve the right to withdraw that if I do find some links in the near future ;))

The teacher bears responsibility for not running her pedagogical idea past some colleague at the school once the vote came out the way it did or when she discovered that Mohammed was one of the choices. That's the reality of it.

The logic of it suggests that these Muslim children probably should have known that naming inanimate objects after the Prophet is a no-no. Regardless, I've come to the conclusion that some sects of Islam are not going to go quietly into the good night of coexistence. Some of them are completely unreasonable, and it cannot be deined that the appearance is one of a sect of people bent on making the world in their ridiculously limited image.

However, I know that all religions, and even atheism, have sects like this, who are chronically incapable of seeing the forest for the trees. All those who are reaonable have to fear is any kind of bloc of them seizing enough power to be dangerous, like they have in some Muslim nations.

Rogue Protos is effectively displaying the attitude of the muslim world. Make fun of our religion, and we will hurt you.

Does this sound like a peace loving religion to you?

Christianity is mocked constantly on television, in the newspaper and on the radio, and you don't see public beheadings over that.

Basically they are saying, You will die for what I believe.

And yet another poster plays the Ayaan Ali Hirsi Biased Sample Card.

I didn't know Rogue Protoss was some kind of Islamic Authority Figure, or did you just happen to cherry pick his rash behavior as "Prime Example" of how "All Muslims" behave? I've asked for and still haven't seen any examples of Islamic violence being committed by Sufis. They're Muslims too. How about all the Muslims living in America nice and quietly. How come they haven't been blowing shit up in the Mainland U.S. like you're telling us they do?

Because if cherrypicking was all it took, then there's enough assholery in the world to put every religion and non-religion in the world out there in the same platform.

It's just that the image of t3h 3b1l m05l3mz is a best-seller in the post 9-11 Western society. Because anti-semitism is no longer kosher, the West is moving on to a halal substitute for their santimonious masturbation parties.

The teacher bears responsibility for not running her pedagogical idea past some colleague at the school once the vote came out the way it did or when she discovered that Mohammed was one of the choices. That's the reality of it.

The logic of it suggests that these Muslim children probably should have known that naming inanimate objects after the Prophet is a no-no. Regardless, I've come to the conclusion that some sects of Islam are not going to go quietly into the good night of coexistence. Some of them are completely unreasonable, and it cannot be deined that the appearance is one of a sect of people bent on making the world in their ridiculously limited image.

However, I know that all religions, and even atheism, have sects like this, who are chronically incapable of seeing the forest for the trees. All those who are reaonable have to fear is any kind of bloc of them seizing enough power to be dangerous, like they have in some Muslim nations.

It doesn't help that Western media will leap, fly and dance at anything they can paint as being part of the Islamic mainstream to continue raking in viewer ratings and sponsorship revenues off the 3b1l m05l3mz fad that has become the politically acceptable substitute for antisemitism in the 21st century.

If they lash one of our citizens, we should lash one of their government offices.

With bombs.

Fining, or a prison sentence (In a British prison) is ifne. Lashing is not.

Because anti-semitism is no longer kosher, the West is moving on to a halal substitute for their sanctimonious masturbation parties.

Nice!

*bangs head against wall*. You are quite correct.

I will check the sources of some newspapers for the links.
Edit: no reliable links found so far. Which means I hereby apologize (but reserve the right to withdraw that if I do find some links in the near future ;))

Sounds fair to me.

you are a bigot and also think back to the culture then and the culture now please

Since when is killing dissidents an outstanding moral thing to do? Since when is marrying a 6 year old, and later consecrating the marriage with here at 9 years of age, and okay thing to do? Maybe I should bring up how miss Aisha said that after the invention of Islam, those women who follow are treated among the worst of women? Maybe I should bring up the wars of apostasy. Why do you think all those people tried to leave after mo-mo died? Because they wanted to be free from that religion of hate, war and misogyny! But unfortunately, Abu Bakr had to continue the iron grasp of Islam on the people. So don't say anything about the culture then and now. Having sex with a 9 year old is NEVER acceptable. Its pedophilia, and I can't believe that you guys would consider him to be a prophet of your god. Whats that say about your god?

And yet another poster plays the Ayaan Ali Hirsi Biased Sample Card.

I didn't know Rogue Protoss was some kind of Islamic Authority Figure, or did you just happen to cherry pick his rash behavior as "Prime Example" of how "All Muslims" behave? I've asked for and still haven't seen any examples of Islamic violence being committed by Sufis. They're Muslims too. How about all the Muslims living in America nice and quietly. How come they haven't been blowing shit up in the Mainland U.S. like you're telling us they do?

Because if cherrypicking was all it took, then there's enough assholery in the world to put every religion and non-religion in the world out there in the same platform.

It's just that the image of t3h 3b1l m05l3mz is a best-seller in the post 9-11 Western society. Because anti-semitism is no longer kosher, the West is moving on to a halal substitute for their santimonious masturbation parties.

Honestly, I used to think like you. Oh not all muslims are the angry, violent type. Thats a load of crock, you insult anything about their religion, and they will threaten you nonstop with violence and death. First hand experience is what I come to the table with. I think it trumps your feel good political correctness.

Eh, not ALL of them are like that. Just most.

Honestly, I used to think like you. Oh not all muslims are the angry, violent type. Thats a load of crock, you insult anything about their religion, and they will threaten you nonstop with violence and death. First hand experience is what I come to the table with. I think it trumps your feel good political correctness.

And this is what I mean by playing the Ayaan Ali Hirsi Biased Sample Card. You deal with a bunch of assholes who claim to be Muslim, and then based on that you extrapolate that every other single Muslim in the world must be the exact same thing. Assholes like the ones who gave you a shit time.

First hand experience means shit when you try to apply it to the whole world, which you can't honestly claim to have been through. It just means the supposed Muslims in your areas are assholes. Not that Muslims everywhere are.

It doesn't just apply to Muslims either. Applies just as well to blacks or any other group. Someone has a bad personal experience with a fraction of that group, and all of a sudden they believe every single one of them are the same damn thing.

It doesn't just apply to Muslims either. Applies just as well to blacks or any other group.

Tiny nitpick: being Muslim entails following a set of rules. Being black does not. As such making generalisations about the behaviour of muslim groups is more valid than making claims about blacks.

Otherwise agreed.

Tiny nitpick: being Muslim entails following a set of rules. Being black does not. As such making generalisations about the behaviour of muslim groups is more valid than making claims about blacks.

Otherwise agreed.

Tinier nitpick: Not all Muslims believe in the exact same set of rules or even how to interpret them, otherwise there'd be no sectarian splits such as Shi'a, Sunni, Sufi, so on and so forth. Nice try to paint them as a hivemind though. And my point still stands.

Whats that say about your god?

Well, technically, Muslims worship the same god as Christianity and Judaism does.

Tinier nitpick: Not all Muslims believe in the exact same set of rules or even how to interpret them, otherwise there'd be no sectarian splits such as Shi'a, Sunni, Sufi, so on and so forth. Nice try to paint them as a hivemind though. And my point still stands.

I did not try to paint them as a hivemind. Nice try though.

There are however things any muslim will agree on - like e.g. that Mohammed was his prophet. Or some of the Islamic pillars.

I agree with sensibme people on this debate. The nxt thing you know, people will not be allowed to call their chlidren Fatima.

I agree with sensibme people on this debate. The nxt thing you know, people will not be allowed to call their chlidren Fatima.

I actually knew a guy in middle school who was named Shiva, and a girl named Fatima.

I agree with sensibme people on this debate. The nxt thing you know, people will not be allowed to call their chlidren Fatima.

Although I do agree that this is an obvious overreaction, some of the posters here are taking this a bit too seriously religiously.

And this is what I mean by playing the Ayaan Ali Hirsi Biased Sample Card. You deal with a bunch of assholes who claim to be Muslim, and then based on that you extrapolate that every other single Muslim in the world must be the exact same thing. Assholes like the ones who gave you a shit time.

First hand experience means shit when you try to apply it to the whole world, which you can't honestly claim to have been through. It just means the supposed Muslims in your areas are assholes. Not that Muslims everywhere are.

It doesn't just apply to Muslims either. Applies just as well to blacks or any other group. Someone has a bad personal experience with a fraction of that group, and all of a sudden they believe every single one of them are the same damn thing.

You missed one thing, its part of their religion and history to kill those who insult mo. Read Surah 9, its full of telling Muslims to kill unbelievers and mockers. Read the sunnah and hadith, likewise they say the same things. When you truly investigate Islam at its core, past the "Islam means peace, etc." deal, then you will see what its really about.

And also, it isn't just a small fraction. This has happened with about 85% I know, when we have debated the merits of Islam. The instant I bring up stuff that can debunk their faith, they threaten and insult me. There is a reason for that, and it is because they are taught to be that way.

Did I ever tell NS about how when I was considering Islam, I had all these Muslim friends. Even the women, who shouldn't have been talking to me, were really friendly with me. THEN, as soon as I say no I don't want to be Muslim because of these reasons, they all insulted me, telling lies, threatening to come kick my ass. Yeah, its just a small minority:rolleyes:

Well, technically, Muslims worship the same god as Christianity and Judaism does.


False.

My God is Jesus. They don't worship Jesus, do they? There is a difference between Allah, meaning The God(which arabic jews and christians call God), and Allah, the Muslim God.

In fact, if you compare Allah of Al Quraan, and the Jewish/Christian God, there is a load of differences. In fact, it is ironic that a lot of qualities that Allah of Quraan has, are the same as Satan in biblical reference. But that has no merit unless you are a Christian, or are debating the two faiths.

You missed one thing, its part of their religion and history to kill those who insult mo. Read Surah 9, its full of telling Muslims to kill unbelievers and mockers. Read the sunnah and hadith, likewise they say the same things. When you truly investigate Islam at its core, past the "Islam means peace, etc." deal, then you will see what its really about.

That's a pretty gross oversimplification of the ninth sura. I can't speak to the hadith and sunna, because I've never read them.

And also, it isn't just a small fraction. This has happened with about 85% I know, when we have debated the merits of Islam. The instant I bring up stuff that can debunk their faith, they threaten and insult me. There is a reason for that, and it is because they are taught to be that way.

Did I ever tell NS about how when I was considering Islam, I had all these Muslim friends. Even the women, who shouldn't have been talking to me, were really friendly with me. THEN, as soon as I say no I don't want to be Muslim because of these reasons, they all insulted me, telling lies, threatening to come kick my ass. Yeah, its just a small minority:rolleyes:

I would suggest that the reaction may be partially due to the fact that they feel betrayed in some measure, because you did indicate positive interest in their religion and then turned to making attacks on it.

I've seen similar behavior from Christians, but I wouldn't put it down to them being taught to be violent. Mostly I'd say it's because people often have a strong attachment to their religions, and attacking it is likely to be perceived as an attack on the person because their identity is bound up in the religion.

False.

My God is Jesus. They don't worship Jesus, do they? There is a difference between Allah, meaning The God(which arabic jews and christians call God), and Allah, the Muslim God.

In fact, if you compare Allah of Al Quraan, and the Jewish/Christian God, there is a load of differences. In fact, it is ironic that a lot of qualities that Allah of Quraan has, are the same as Satan in biblical reference. But that has no merit unless you are a Christian, or are debating the two faiths.

Interesting. Care to back up the claim of Allah being Satan?

The big difference between the two is the fact they don't view Jesus as the Son of God. He was simply a prophet. They also have him returning some day.....

Freedom of speach no person should be punished in less freedom of speach becomes violent!

Interesting. Care to back up the claim of Allah being Satan?

The big difference between the two is the fact they don't view Jesus as the Son of God. He was simply a prophet. They also have him returning some day.....

Who is the deceiver in the bible? It is Satan, no? Allah is known to be a deceiver of man. The Quraan attests to this.

Islam teaches that Mohammad recieved revelation from the Angel Gabriel. However, if you look in the bible, it clearly says that satan appears as an angel of light, and if an angel or man comes to you and brings a different gospel, then they are of anti-christ (not THE anti-christ, but they are against Christ).

Imam Mahdee, the 12th imam, will come and conquer the world and disbelievers on a white horse, similar to the white horse in revelation(four horsement)

I can't remember the verse, but its in the OT, and it talks about those with the crescent being evil, and further states that all of the nations around Israel will do the devil's will and try to destroy Israel in the end. Well, considering that Muslim countries(minus lebanon which has a large population of Christians) all surround Israel and have tried time and time again to destroy it, would surely point to, from a biblical perspective, that those muslims are following the orders of the devil, no?

That's a pretty gross oversimplification of the ninth sura. I can't speak to the hadith and sunna, because I've never read them.



I would suggest that the reaction may be partially due to the fact that they feel betrayed in some measure, because you did indicate positive interest in their religion and then turned to making attacks on it.

I've seen similar behavior from Christians, but I wouldn't put it down to them being taught to be violent. Mostly I'd say it's because people often have a strong attachment to their religions, and attacking it is likely to be perceived as an attack on the person because their identity is bound up in the religion.

See, I hate people bring Christians in this,you know why? Because Christ never told us to kill pagans, or other 'kufr'(infidels). If Christians are assholes, then they are not following Christ. If Muslims act that way, they are following their religion. They are not to take friends with Christians or Jews. They are to kill those who mock Islam or Mo. Its made clear. You don't have that with Christ.

Imam Mahdee, the 12th imam, will come and conquer the world and disbelievers on a white horse, similar to the white horse in revelation(four horsement)

IIRC, Shias believe that Jesus will return along with Mahdi, the 12th Imam in occultation. But Jesus will be a muslim, as he always was, as muslims claim.

Did I ever tell NS about how when I was considering Islam, I had all these Muslim friends. Even the women, who shouldn't have been talking to me, were really friendly with me. THEN, as soon as I say no I don't want to be Muslim because of these reasons, they all insulted me, telling lies, threatening to come kick my ass. Yeah, its just a small minority:rolleyes:

Let's look at this for a minute.

First, you tell your Muslim friends that you're considering being a Muslim. Not surprisingly, they're happy with this.

Then, you tell them that Mohammed was a pedophile and that all Muslims are angry raving lunatics who are told to kill all the infidels.

...

Y'know, I can't really say I blame them.

See, I hate people bring Christians in this,you know why? Because Christ never told us to kill pagans, or other 'kufr'(infidels). If Christians are assholes, then they are not following Christ. If Muslims act that way, they are following their religion. They are not to take friends with Christians or Jews. They are to kill those who mock Islam or Mo. Its made clear. You don't have that with Christ.

Yeah, I'm quite familiar with the difference between the commandments of the founder of Islam and those of the founder of Christianity.

I just don't think that's the issue in the case of the treatment you received from the Muslims you were talking about.

Let's look at this for a minute.

First, you tell your Muslim friends that you're considering being a Muslim. Not surprisingly, they're happy with this.

Then, you tell them that Mohammed was a pedophile and that all Muslims are angry raving lunatics who are told to kill all the infidels.

...

Y'know, I can't really say I blame them.

This is more the issue.

Let's look at this for a minute.

First, you tell your Muslim friends that you're considering being a Muslim. Not surprisingly, they're happy with this.

Then, you tell them that Mohammed was a pedophile and that all Muslims are angry raving lunatics who are told to kill all the infidels.

...

Y'know, I can't really say I blame them.


I told them I was looking into being a muslim. They were all buddy buddy.

Then when I say its not for me, and here is why.... they didn't even try to explain, to see if maybe I was mistaken about something. No, instead, they said I was trying to sweet talk the ladies, and get to be their friends, so I could convert them, and have my way with them. Yeah, thats a real good response to what I said and did. :rolleyes:

I told them I was looking into being a muslim. They were all buddy buddy.

Then when I say its not for me, and here is why.... they didn't even try to explain, to see if maybe I was mistaken about something. No, instead, they said I was trying to sweet talk the ladies, and get to be their friends, so I could convert them, and have my way with them. Yeah, thats a real good response to what I said and did. :rolleyes:

So after you bait-and-switched them from an interest in possible conversion into an 3b1l m05l3mz rant with the added bonus of insulting and profaning their religious beliefs hell of a lot more definitely than the schoolteacher who's involved in the incident the OP is discussing supposedly was doing, these Muslims react well within the parameters of human nature and get pissed at you and make irrational insults and threats.

Which you then use to play the Ayaan Ali Hirsi Biased Sample Card and go on to say that all Muslims are intolerant and violent savages who can't brook even the slightest questioning of their religious beliefs.

And this of course has the scientific brilliance of proving that bears are dangerous animals by walking up to one and kicking him in the testicles.

EDIT: Imagine if you had done the exact same thing that has you crying 3b1l m05l3mz at the Islamic Center inside Quantico Marine Base.

You, buddy, are Kimchiteer Material. Not to mention a strong contender for a future Darwin Award.

So after you bait-and-switched them from an interest in possible conversion into an 3b1l m05l3mz rant with the added bonus of insulting and profaning their religious beliefs hell of a lot more definitely than the schoolteacher who's involved in the incident the OP is discussing supposedly was doing so, these Muslims react well within the parameters of human nature and get pissed at you and make irrational insults and threats.

Which you then use to play the Ayaan Ali Hirsi Biased Sample Card and go on to say that all Muslims are intolerant and violent savages who can't brook even the slightest questioning of their religious beliefs.

And this of course has the scientific brilliance of proving that bears are dangerous animals by walking up to one and kicking him in the testicles.

You, buddy, are Kimchiteer Material. Not to mention a strong contender for a future Darwin Award.


Yeah, its funny though, that if you go insult a Buddhist beliefs, he/she will not threaten to kill you. No will a jew...or a Christian... or anyone else. They might get angry, but chances are they will just blow you off. That doesn't happen with Muslims, because its in their faith to have such a reaction. Why is that not getting across to you? You can call me bigot or what you want, it doesn't change the fact that they will almost always act that way, because their religion says for them to do so. Thats fact, not some Islamophobic conspiracy theory.

Who is the deceiver in the bible? It is Satan, no? Allah is known to be a deceiver of man. Allah is God. God is Allah.

Peter, Pierre, Pedro, Petrus, Pietro.

Yeah, its funny though, that if you go insult a Buddhist beliefs, he/she will not threaten to kill you. No will a jew...or a Christian... or anyone else. They might get angry, but chances are they will just blow you off. That doesn't happen with Muslims, because its in their faith to have such a reaction. Why is that not getting across to you? You can call me bigot or what you want, it doesn't change the fact that they will almost always act that way, because their religion says for them to do so. Thats fact, not some Islamophobic conspiracy theory.

You're buying into a myth that all Buddhists are smiling, peaceful and passive nice guys. Japan between its feudal period and World War 2 had plenty of Buddhists who wouldn't brook any bullshit from you. Hell, a lot of Buddhists were Samurai who would have had plenty of other excuses to make cold cuts out of you without you insulting their religion. You just haven't insulted the wrong Buddhist hard enough.

And with the likes of Fred Phelps, The KKK, Christian Identity, and Aryan Nation you're still buying into the myth that all Christians bother to follow Jesus's "Turn the Other Cheek" advice? Again you're just being selective in your experiences and opinions so you can continue to maintain your 3b1l m05l3mz belief. You just haven't insulted the wrong Christian hard enough.

You piss off a bunch of human beings who react like human beings, then use that human reaction as justification for saying all members of that religion are intolerant and violent. Like I said, the same scientific brilliance as proving all bears are dangerous by kicking one in his nut sack.

You're buying into a myth that all Buddhists are smiling, peaceful and passive nice guys. Japan between its feudal period and World War 2 had plenty of Buddhists who wouldn't brook any bullshit from you. Hell, a lot of Buddhists were Samurai who would have had plenty of other excuses to make cold cuts out of you without you insulting their religion. You just haven't insulted the wrong Buddhist hard enough.

And with the likes of Fred Phelps, The KKK, Christian Identity, and Aryan Nation you're still buying into the myth that all Christians bother to follow Jesus's "Turn the Other Cheek" advice? Again you're just being selective in your experiences and opinions so you can continue to maintain your 3b1l m05l3mz belief. You just haven't insulted the wrong Christian hard enough.

You piss off a bunch of human beings who react like human beings, then use that human reaction as justification for saying all members of that religion are intolerant and violent. Like I said, the same scientific brilliance as proving all bears are dangerous by kicking one in his nut sack.


One more time, I'll point it out to you, mk? Christ never said kill anyone who insults him, did he? So therefore, if some jerk comes along and acts like the KKK or who ever, they are not Following Christ's message.

On the other hand, if a muslim kills one who has insulted Islam, or Mo, then they have done their Muslim duty.

There is nothing else to it. Honestly, quit trying to think to hard on this.

Allah is God. God is Allah.

Peter, Pierre, Pedro, Petrus, Pietro.


Okay, lets say I worship Yahweh, in english, I can say I worship God, right?

Now, lets say I worship money. Its my God.

Same word to describe two totally different things, right?

Okay, lets say I worship Yahweh...whatever way you decide to call God.. you are still lost in translation.

Oh no! She brought democracy to the people! :eek:

Yes, the children voted in favour of it. There were 23 votes and 20 were for the name selected.

Yeah. :(
The kids test the limits, they probably knew it wasn't allowed.
Teacher should have abandoned that idea.

==============

I understand where the muslims are coming from BUT it isn't at all a big deal - I dont get deeply offended if someone called a toy Jesus
Also surley lashing is against the human rights or something - I think it's disgusting.

I think it's a good punishment in some cases. I'd take lashes over more than a few days in jail, it's an unmistakable punishment not an ambiguous process of "taking away liberty."

On the other hand, being forced into the company of other men, who I never chose and can't walk away from, would be a worse punishment than having pain inflicted on my body. If it was your intention to punish me, you would do better to choose jail than flogging. I'd like jail less.

So, perhaps the fairest punishment is a bit of both.

Let's not even start on the death penalty.

===========

I agree with sensibme people on this debate. The nxt thing you know, people will not be allowed to call their chlidren Fatima.

You totally missed the point, with all the facts in hand. Many muslim boys are called "Mohammed." That's not sacrilegious.

The teacher should have got a girl bear, with pink ribbons or whatever girl teddy-bears have. Then the kids would have named it "Fatima" ... no problem. Good name for a bear, too. :)

Yeah, its funny though, that if you go insult a Buddhist beliefs, he/she will not threaten to kill you. No will a jew...or a Christian... or anyone else. They might get angry, but chances are they will just blow you off.

My, my, your faith in humanity level is high for someone who's been here for two years.

That doesn't happen with Muslims, because its in their faith to have such a reaction. Why is that not getting across to you? You can call me bigot or what you want, it doesn't change the fact that they will almost always act that way, because their religion says for them to do so. Thats fact, not some Islamophobic conspiracy theory.

One more time, I'll point it out to you, mk? Christ never said kill anyone who insults him, did he? So therefore, if some jerk comes along and acts like the KKK or who ever, they are not Following Christ's message.

On the other hand, if a muslim kills one who has insulted Islam, or Mo, then they have done their Muslim duty.

There is nothing else to it. Honestly, quit trying to think to hard on this.

Why, exactly, will Muslims always follow their religion but Christians will not necessarily do so?

How very convenient.

Like this? (http://www.badtastebears.com/gallery/numbered/miss)

Thank you! My holiday shopping is now complete.:D:cool:

Who is the deceiver in the bible? It is Satan, no?And God. Unless you want to argue that Abraham was in on the whole sacrificing-your-son deal.

The Muslim Council of Britain reacted angrily to the news, saying it was "appalled" and demanded Mrs Gibbons' immediate release.

"This is a disgraceful decision and defies common sense. There was clearly no intention on the part of the teacher to deliberately insult the Islamic faith," said Secretary-General Dr Muhammad Abdul Bari, in a strongly-worded statement.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7117430.stm


This should be mentioned...

Since when is killing dissidents an outstanding moral thing to do? Since when is marrying a 6 year old, and later consecrating the marriage with here at 9 years of age, and okay thing to do? Maybe I should bring up how miss Aisha said that after the invention of Islam, those women who follow are treated among the worst of women? Maybe I should bring up the wars of apostasy. Why do you think all those people tried to leave after mo-mo died? Because they wanted to be free from that religion of hate, war and misogyny! But unfortunately, Abu Bakr had to continue the iron grasp of Islam on the people. So don't say anything about the culture then and now. Having sex with a 9 year old is NEVER acceptable. Its pedophilia, and I can't believe that you guys would consider him to be a prophet of your god. Whats that say about your god?
Dear me, are you really attacking the societal structures of 632 AD? 1375 years ago? Instead of attacking his message, that would make it a kinda divine ad hominem, wouldn't it...

But, since you ask when consecrating the marriage with a 9-year old is an OK thing to do, let me give you one simple answer: 1,375 years ago.

Too far back, maybe... Let's go to the year 1302 instead, 670 years later, when the Norwegian king Håkon V Magnusson made sure his daughter was betrothed to Eric, Duke of Södermanland, at the tender age of... 1.

And they got married in 1312, when Ingeborg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingeborg_of_Norway) was 11. You think they didn't consecrate the marriage? Well, she got her first child at 15...

Why bring this up? Because you're looking at it all with modern eyes, and without taking into concideration the cultural differences that exists between modern western society and the nomadic culture and society more than 1,300 years ago. It's an invalid comparison, and it's pointless when you're debating Islam as a global religion.

Honestly, I used to think like you. Oh not all muslims are the angry, violent type. Thats a load of crock, you insult anything about their religion, and they will threaten you nonstop with violence and death. First hand experience is what I come to the table with. I think it trumps your feel good political correctness.
Anecdotal evidence and sweeping generalisations are what you bring to the table. All worthless.

It's also interesting how you go from "all" to "85%" to "most" back to "all good muslims" or something.

What seems to have happened is this woman has fallen foul of a few assholes and suffered greatly as a result. I presume she thought because the children suggested it, it was ok and within the culture. However a parent and a few fuckwits in the legal system have pounced on her..Its not entirely dissimilar to what seems to occur now and again in the states, with prosecutors with some sort of agenda pouncing on a ready made unfortunate target...Predictably though, its turned into an "all muslimz..." rant. I am somewhat suprised by somebody who I thought had gained some modicum of sense coming out with this shite though....

Yeah, its funny though, that if you go insult a Buddhist beliefs, he/she will not threaten to kill you. No will a jew...or a Christian... or anyone else. They might get angry, but chances are they will just blow you off.


Go to a Celtic V Rangers game and wear one sides strip when in the others stand. Don't bother saying anything. Chances are you won't have any time to anyway.


So don't say anything about the culture then and now. Having sex with a 9 year old is NEVER acceptable. Its pedophilia, and I can't believe that you guys would consider him to be a prophet of your god. Whats that say about your god?

Well, I'll turn you over to the following learned person....

The Prophet’s love of his youngest wife, Aisha, causes much consternation in America; almost fifty years after the US Supreme Court removed the ban on that ode to underage love, Vladimir Nabokov’s Lolita. For the prudish accusers, it does not matter that Muhammad, peace upon him, was in love with the girl, as she with him. They know better what is good for everybody. If the Prophet had chosen a boy of Aisha’s age, one feels that fear of homophobia would soften the blows. But the Prophet was a man of orthodox tastes.

A modest Talmudic scholar from Jaffa, I would rise to his defence in the name of our Jewish tradition. Far from being a sinner, Muhammad (peace be upon him) acted according to the letter and the spirit of our holy faith. Biblical Jacob fell in love with Rachel when she was only seven, and brought forth from her a line of saints including Mary, mother of Christ.

The Talmud stipulates the permitted age of marriage for girls at three years and one day. It brings us a dialogue worthy of Boccaccio that took place in Sepphoris of Galilee. A Roman princess Justine, daughter of Emperor Septimius Severus son of Anthony asked Rabbi Judah the Prince, the greatest spiritual and legal authority of Jews in the post-Biblical period, what is the permitted age of marriage and cohabitation.

- Three years and one day, - replied the Rabbi.

- What is the age for childbearing, - persisted the Princess.

- Nine years [i], - he replied.

- I was married at six, and gave birth at seven, - she reflected with great regret, - so I wasted in vain three excellent years of my young life.

Muhammad’s wife, Aisha, wasted six years of her young life, as she was wed at nine. Thus, the Prophet demonstrated great prudence, also in full accordance with our Jewish teachings. Our holy Rabbis permitted very early marriage, but they were not absolutely sure that three-year old girls are sufficiently ripe. They taught: proselytes and paedophiles delay the Coming of the Messiah and of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Who are the paedophiles in this context, asked the Talmud. They have to be persons of legitimate but objectionable behaviour, and therefore, not the sodomites (as they deserve death by stoning) nor masturbators (they merit watery grave). It is those who marry girls before the nubile age of nine. Thus, the Prophet is above suspicion according to our Jewish law.
http://www.israelshamir.net/English/maidens.htm

Well, I'll turn you over to the following learned person....

WTF? Some paedophile sympathiser is a learnèd person? I hope you're being sarcastic.

WTF? Some paedophile sympathiser is a learnèd person? I hope you're being sarcastic.

I wasn't aware that it was National Strawman day..which presumes you had the sense to read the full linked article (possibly a presumption too far)...Here.....He must advocate mass murder and genocide too...nasty fellow....

Enemies of Islam would not dare to attack our Jewish faith though all the features of Islam they profess to dislike can be found in Judaism. This goes beyond sexual matters. Jihad is but an Arab translation of the Jewish concept of Milhemet Mitzva, the Commanded (or Preordained) War. These concepts differ in this: in jihad, one is not allowed to kill civilians, but in milhemet mitzvah, one is commanded to do so. Look up your Pentateuch and you will find it there, without an effort. The Messenger, peace be upon him, softened this Message.
http://www.israelshamir.net/English/maidens.htm

I wasn't aware that it was National Strawman day..
A strawman is when you set up a non-existent argument to tear down. I wasn't trying to argue anything, I was just asking a question.

which presumes you had the sense to read the full linked articleNo. I was busy at the time, and didn't really want to go to a site that appeared to be pro-paedophile.

(possibly a presumption too far)
Yes, but I'm used to NSG posters presuming things.

Anyway, I'll leave the thread confused if you like, but I humbly request that you could enlighten me as to what you're talking about, without irony or satire (yes, I'm in stupid mode).

Verdict is in...

Gillian Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool, has been sentenced to 15 days in prison and will then be deported.

She had been accused on three counts of insulting religion, inciting hatred and showing contempt for religious beliefs.

The Foreign Office said it was extremely disappointed by the verdict. Her lawyer says she will now appeal.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7119399.stm

It should be overturned.

The prime minister, Sudanese embassy officials in London and UK Muslim organisations all expressed the hope that Mrs Gibbons would be released.

But Sudan's top clerics had called for the full measure of the law to be used against Mrs Gibbons and labelled her actions part of a Western plot against Islam.
Gah. :rolleyes:

do they administer the same punishment to a person that has the same name and acts like an ass?

all i know is that some how this is going to be linked to being the fault of the USA and bush admin

I blame Bush and the US for starting this war on terror and causing perfectly rational muslim clerics believe there is a western conspiricy to undermine Islam.

>.>
<.<

No. I was busy at the time, and didn't really want to go to a site that appeared to be pro-paedophile.

It's not. "The writings of Israel Shamir. Championing democracy for Israel and Palestine." He's doing comparative theology there, and if all those holy books say paedophilia is all right, that's neither his nor Nodinia's fault, huh?

It takes a while to read, but there's no naughty pictures there. :)

Verdict is in...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7119399.stm

It should be overturned.


Gah. :rolleyes:If there's one good thing to come of this at least the woman has been kept safe from followers of such clerics whilst she has been detained (whether or not you consider her imprisonment just or not). The way people for gathering outside the police station when she was arrested you'd think they were ready to lynch her.

WTF? Some paedophile sympathiser is a learnèd person? I hope you're being sarcastic.

I'm quite amused that nobody has taken into account cultural and societal upbringing rather than dumping it all on religion.

Am I missing something? I thought it was the children that named the teddy bear, not the teacher. It is highly unlikely that the teacher is responsible for the religious education of these children, so how can she be held responsible for their choice of name for the bear? If this choice is seen to be offensive, then surely is it the children's religious educators who are at fault, aren't they?

From a slightly different angle, this tempest-in-a-hookah isn't all that different from schools in the US with regard to how three children telling their parents about something at school can get whatever that thing was banned or discontinued. I've seen it as a teacher, and I remember it all the way back to high school when our Contemporary World Problems teacher was showing the movie Platoon during our unit on the War in Vietnam. Three students out of 251 seniors in six CWP class periods told mommy and/or daddy and, instead of offering those students an out, they administration caved in and pulled the film after we'd seen a third of it the first day of the unit.

Now granted, that's not getting the teacher lashed or locked up for merely allowing 20 of 23 kids to do what they wanted and name the teddy bear after a major religious figure, but it's that same mentality. "Waaah! Everyone else must make allowances for MEEEEE!" I'm no fan of tyranny by the majority, but if the minority is whining about something that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, they need to get a grip.

False.

My God is Jesus. They don't worship Jesus, do they? There is a difference between Allah, meaning The God(which arabic jews and christians call God), and Allah, the Muslim God.

In fact, if you compare Allah of Al Quraan, and the Jewish/Christian God, there is a load of differences. In fact, it is ironic that a lot of qualities that Allah of Quraan has, are the same as Satan in biblical reference. But that has no merit unless you are a Christian, or are debating the two faiths.

False.

The difference between Christianity and the others; the God worshiped by Muslims, Jews and Christians are the same. The interpretation of Jesus is different. Muslims consider Jesus a prophet, not a Son of God. Simply due to the fact that they do not believe in Jesus being a Son of God does not constitute that their god is different.

So now, you're comparing Allah to Satan? Very pretty, though you fail to note that God has never (save for the New Testament) been a great guy to work with. There is little correlation between Allah and Satan, since the one who was the least of an asshole was considered the nicest guy.

I'm quite amused that nobody has taken into account cultural and societal upbringing rather than dumping it all on religion.

Nobody asked me. Of course much of the barbarism that passes for Shariya and other culturo-religious laws around the world are at least half cultural. Most of the more outrageous demands made by patriarchal Arabic cultures can't even be found in the Qur'an, or if they can, they're exaggerated extension of what is clearly a more benign intent on the part of the holy book. Islam is far from alone in such exaggerations.

Nobody asked me. Of course much of the barbarism that passes for Shariya and other culturo-religious laws around the world are at least half cultural. Most of the more outrageous demands made by patriarchal Arabic cultures can't even be found in the Qur'an, or if they can, they're exaggerated extension of what is clearly a more benign intent on the part of the holy book. Islam is far from alone in such exaggerations.

I truly understand that Islam does have some sort of influence on this incident, and I myself aren't too fond of Islam itself, but there's a limit, I would say, on the accusations of an entire religion upon this incident. Some posters here love to associated any bad things within the Middle East or Africa with Islam, despite the fact that the whole continent is pretty much impoverished already without the Koran around.

But yes, I do agree with your fact that religion in its infancy (and many times well into its older ages) is very much influenced by the culture is grows around.

From Gravlen's new link: (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7119399.stm)

The court heard that she was arrested on Sunday after another member of staff at Unity High School complained to the Ministry of Education.

I agree with the assessment that this is hardly more than a misunderstanding, but there's something cheesy there. This isn't a missionary school, it has predominantly Muslim students. Even if this teacher was not aware of the cultural sensitivity of naming something after the Prophet (and it was a toy animal) surely its the other teacher's duty to talk to her about that, and if she blew the advice off, take it to the Principal?

As it is, the school's director is quite relieved to have the crisis pass, though the school has closed for the year. Protestors are presumably endangering or at least disturbing the kids. (That's crap, btw, you shouldn't protest outside a school any more than you should outside a funeral.) He said this:

The school's director, Robert Boulos, told the AP news agency: "It's a very fair verdict, she could have had six months and lashes and a fine, and she only got 15 days and deportation."

I repeat, there's some dodgy crap going on there. This should certainly have been handled within the school. A school administrator blaming the teacher so bluntly (for something they should have handled themselves) shows a climate of fear surrounding the school.

EDIT: The reader responses (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7115400.stm) are interesting. Several claim to be from Sudan and from people who know the school or teacher. Of course they might just be BBC trolls ... ;)

False.

The difference between Christianity and the others; the God worshiped by Muslims, Jews and Christians are the same. The interpretation of Jesus is different. Muslims consider Jesus a prophet, not a Son of God. Simply due to the fact that they do not believe in Jesus being a Son of God does not constitute that their god is different.

So now, you're comparing Allah to Satan? Very pretty, though you fail to note that God has never (save for the New Testament) been a great guy to work with. There is little correlation between Allah and Satan, since the one who was the least of an asshole was considered the nicest guy.

And if you read and knew anything about the Quraan you'd know that Allah is very different from Yahweh/Yeshua.

-snip so called learned person-

He said that Jacob loved a sever year old. I think he got the story wrong. i read the story just now,and it said that Jacob worked for her father for 7 years to try and get her love. So why should I trust a man who can't even get the story right? Just changing things to make paedoprophet seem okay.

He said that Jacob loved a sever year old. I think he got the story wrong. i read the story just now,and it said that Jacob worked for her father for 7 years to try and get her love. So why should I trust a man who can't even get the story right? Just changing things to make paedoprophet seem okay.

Actually he worked 14 years for Laban to marry Rachel.

The source is still bullshit though as it misrepresents facts that anyone can look up on wikipedia or can simply learn by reading a single chapter in Genesis.

It should also be noted that later parts of the Talmud banned the Death Penalty. Jews stopped administering it around the year 30 as the Sanhedrin concluded that it wasn't worth the risk of executing an innocent man. They decided that G-d would make the final judgement. The author of the article obviously knows little of the subject matter he wrote about.

Actually he worked 14 years for Laban to marry Rachel.

The source is still bullshit though as it misrepresents facts that anyone can look up on wikipedia or can simply learn by reading a single chapter in Genesis.

It should also be noted that later parts of the Talmud banned the Death Penalty. Jews stopped administering it around the year 30 as the Sanhedrin concluded that it wasn't worth the risk of executing an innocent man. They decided that G-d would make the final judgement. The author of the article obviously knows little of the subject matter he wrote about.

Yah, i noticed that i was wrong about the 7..i re read it and saw where he worked for 7, and then 7 more. But yea, all the same, its a load of crap.

Freedom of speach no person should be punished in less freedom of speach becomes violent!

Too bad the American Constitution only applies in like, America.

And if you read and knew anything about the Quraan you'd know that Allah is very different from Yahweh/Yeshua.

I tend to go on what people do rather than what they believe. Therefore I am quite aware that, when it comes to waging war, slaugher and general nastiness, the "christian" countries have a higher body count to their name than the muslim, certainly in the last hundred years. Now you might say that it goes against their religon, but rather famously God is and was invoked on nearly all sides in both World Wars, and by quite a few in conflicts thereafter, even if religon was not the primary motivator.



It should also be noted that later parts of the Talmud banned the Death Penalty. Jews stopped administering it around the year 30 as the Sanhedrin concluded that it wasn't worth the risk of executing an innocent man. They decided that G-d would make the final judgement. The author of the article obviously knows little of the subject matter he wrote about.

As usual and as seemingly with the Rachel thing, its a matter of interpretation........
But while Jewish law supports the death penalty in theory, the Oral Law makes it difficult, and in most cases impossible, to execute someone for murder, says Rabbi Yitzchok Adlerstein, director of the Jewish Studies Institute of Yeshiva of Los Angeles and the chair of Jewish law and ethics at Loyola Law School.

For a Jew to be convicted by a Jewish court, two eyewitnesses must have seen the perpetrator about to commit the crime and warned him of the potential penalty. The murderer must verbally answer that he chooses to proceed anyway. (For a non-Jew, only one witness is required and no verbal warning.) Twenty-three, rather than the usual three judges, must sit on the rabbinical court, among other requirements; circumstantial evidence is never allowed in a Jewish court hearing a capital case. A court that executed once in 70 years was referred to as a bloody court, according to one sage.

Nevertheless, Adlerstein says, the unusually strict rules assume a society in which murder is not commonplace and in which most people respect the law; in a society in which human life becomes a trifling matter for criminals, it may be necessary for the courts to impose a different standard. "In short, the Talmud says that if the generation calls for it, the court can rule to execute even if all the requirements are not met," Adlerstein explains.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/old/deathpenalty2.3.10.0.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7121025.stm

What a bunch of lowlives. :mad:

So, like, the courts in Sudan decided to giver her a 15 day sentence and then deportation.

But now there's a riot outside the prison demanding her execution.

(But let's not talk about that. Instead let's deflect our horror and outrage by talking instead about Christian wars. That always cheers everyone up around here.)

As usual and as seemingly with the Rachel thing, its a matter of interpretation........

I wouldn't say the story of Jacob and Laban is one of interpretation. I've read it in numerous translations and even in Hebrew (stumbling through with a dictionary as my vocabulary isn't as strong as I had thought it was). Each time, it was the same. Jacob worked 14 years so he could marry Rachel so she was not a child at the time.


http://www.jewishjournal.com/old/deathpenalty2.3.10.0.htm

[/quote]

All in that article is true. While there were stipulations where capital punishment could be used, I don't know if there are recorded instances of it happening. I wouldn't be surprised if there were, but either way, Judaism basically abolished almost all uses of capital punishment in the mid 1st century. That is over 1900 years before the "civilized" world began taking similar measures.

This is one of the many cases where Rabbis decided to follow the Oral Law over the Written Law when the two contradicted each other. It would be interesting to read records of the discussions that led to the decision being put in the Jerusalem Talmud, but there is no way to do so.

While on the topic, it is interesting to note that Israel has only carried out capital punishment in one case. It was done for Eichmann. I don't think anyone outside of a few psychotic Nazis had any doubt about his guilt though.

All in that article is true. While there were stipulations where capital punishment could be used, I don't know if there are recorded instances of it happening. I wouldn't be surprised if there were, but either way, Judaism basically abolished almost all uses of capital punishment in the mid 1st century. That is over 1900 years before the "civilized" world began taking similar measures.
But then the Jews basically spent that 1900 years as a dispersed minority amongst other peoples, to whose courts (instead of courts of their own) they were subject, so they were never faced with the question of whether or not to reinstate the death penalty in their own courts as a response to rising crime rates: We don't, and can't, know that they would have continued to avoid its use if their courts had actually been active during those centuries...

While on the topic, it is interesting to note that Israel has only carried out capital punishment in one case. It was done for Eichmann. I don't think anyone outside of a few psychotic Nazis had any doubt about his guilt though.

Emmmm, the whole 'targeted killing' thing.......? Yer man in the wheel chair, for instance...? (I'll take your word on the Rachel thing)

So, like, the courts in Sudan decided to giver her a 15 day sentence and then deportation.

But now there's a riot outside the prison demanding her execution.

(But let's not talk about that. Instead let's deflect our horror and outrage by talking instead about Christian wars. That always cheers everyone up around here.)

Well, since the alternative is letting you make your veiled claim that X rioters represent 1.6 billion Muslims, by all means, let's.

Oh, right, I forgot, you don't give a FUCK about actually discussing Islam, or any other religion for that matter. You already have your own opinions, for which you gather "evidence" while ignoring every bit of evidence to the contrary!

Hey, I didn't know I was talking to Mike Nifong.

Too bad the American Constitution only applies in like, America.

free speech only exists as an usian constitutional concept?

The Great Flying Spagetti Monster never requires us to whip or punish believers or non believers for violating any rules of FSM. We simply ask that you carry parmegian cheese in case a fellow worshipper runs out.


(I really wish a huge cloud of intergalactic reality gas would wash over the Earth. I think you would have about 5 Billion really embarassed people once they realized how absolutly rediculous people behave over thier own personal flavor of self delusion)

I would've expected her to be more cautious about the name, specially when she is in a declared Islamic state (Sudan). To use children and cultural ignorance as a defense is pathetic by now. I also find pathetic when the ultra religious Sudanese want her lashed or even worst, want her dead by a firing squad.

This highlights why I am against any kind of blasphemy laws. Hopefully all governments with citizens in Sudan will be encouraging them to leave as quickly as possible.

I would've expected her to be more cautious about the name, specially when she is in a declared Islamic state (Sudan). To use children and cultural ignorance as a defense is pathetic by now.

of course, its like the most common name in the world, so caution in general seems a bit silly. but certainly when in a place filled with crazed religionists and a government not known for protecting people from them, well, it's probably safer to not be there at all. who knows what crazy thing they will take offense to and demand your execution over. maybe dancing.

I'm surprised the stupid motherfuckers don't want to give 40 lashes to the kids in the classroom too.

Stupid fucking religions...ugh...

wrong! the religion its self is never stupid ( cults with standing). it is the people who run it that are morons. religions are always founded on good morals and good princaples. people are the problem.

wrong! the religion its self is never stupid ( cults with standing). it is the people who run it that are morons. religions are always founded on good morals and good princaples. people are the problem.

Genesis 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air;

Talmud Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

Koran Sura 5:36-38: The punishment of those who wage war against God and his Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land.

And so on and so on

I would've expected her to be more cautious about the name, specially when she is in a declared Islamic state (Sudan). To use children and cultural ignorance as a defense is pathetic by now. I also find pathetic when the ultra religious Sudanese want her lashed or even worst, want her dead by a firing squad.

I would have thought cultural ignorance would be a good defence, it's used by "guests" in the West. The children would be an even better defence. After all, if the ideology is so important, surely the parents should have inculcated it in their offspring more effectively.

At least the teacher has the excuse of being an outsider.What justification do the parents proffer for bringing up their children to sully the name of what's his name? Could it be they were hoping that this situation would arise so they could assert spurious victimhood? Or...heaven forbid...maybe the parents are racists.

religions are always founded on good morals and good princaples.

Boooold claim. Prove it.
Feel free to start with naming all the principles of the Christian religion. Make sure everything in the Bible is consistent with them.
Might get you a sainthood if you succeed.

I would've expected her to be more cautious about the name, specially when she is in a declared Islamic state (Sudan).

Afaik the teddybear was only called Mohammed. There are several million muslem boys and men called Mohammed.

wrong! the religion its self is never stupid

if a religion ever isn't, it is only by accident, or through the pressures of secularization and rationality. the principles on which religion must be founded are themselves stupid.

*sigh* this is the reason why I am personaly Atheist and think Religion should have NO PLACE in government. Leaders/countrys who decide to bring religion into politics should get DE- nvm, I'll let the Smilie show what I mean.... :sniper::mp5::mp5::sniper::mp5::mp5::sniper::mp5::mp5::upyours:

nvm, I'll let the Smilie show what I mean.... :sniper::mp5::mp5::sniper::mp5::mp5::sniper::mp5::mp5::upyours:

honestly, is there like a memo that gets sent out when you first join the internets that i missed out on? what else could possibly explain the regularity of first posts like the above?

honestly, is there like a memo that gets sent out when you first join the internets that i missed out on? what else could possibly explain the regularity of first posts like the above?

Divine inspiration.

Divine inspiration.

but i thought god was all-loving

but i thought god was all-loving

And a member of the NRA.

Afaik the teddybear was only called Mohammed. There are several million muslem boys and men called Mohammed.

And one of the kids suggested it since it was his name.....

That reminds me of when I named my new red stuffed gorilla "Nikita;" then received a swift beating with many large sticks.

but i thought god was all-loving

You forgot to read the fine print.

God is all-loving, but only in the case that God is your God and not my God. God fulfilling the pledge to be all-loving is dependent upon your adherence to the terms and conditions that apply in your region. The all-loving offer may not be valid outside of the continental United States, or if you are sexually attracted to males.

honestly, is there like a memo that gets sent out when you first join the internets that i missed out on? what else could possibly explain the regularity of first posts like the above?

this is ONLY my first post here, smart alac

And one of the kids suggested it since it was his name.....It's been suggested to me (by an atheist) that since the teddy bear was not directly made by God, he can't be named after a prophet, but since humans were made by God in his image, they can.

Another fine example of what religion is capable of making people do.

Religious books Bible/Q´uran/Watchtower..should be listed under the fiction section.

It's been suggested to me (by an atheist) that since the teddy bear was not directly made by God, he can't be named after a prophet, but since humans were made by God in his image, they can.

That could be, especially given the fact that Islamic prohibitions on idolatry are really, really strict.

Emmmm, the whole 'targeted killing' thing.......? Yer man in the wheel chair, for instance...? (I'll take your word on the Rachel thing)

Killing a head of Hamas is a legitimate military operation in a war as the man is technically a combatant. There is a huge difference between military operations and capital punishment.

Killing a head of Hamas is a legitimate military operation in a war as the man is technically a combatant. There is a huge difference between military operations and capital punishment.

Yep, he was technically a combatant all right.

They're deemed a "threat" and targeted for killing. I'm sure him, the guy who was killed in his house with his family, the lecturer in lebanon and his family, the guy gunned down in malta and all the rest appreciate the difference....

It's been suggested to me (by an atheist) that since the teddy bear was not directly made by God, he can't be named after a prophet, but since humans were made by God in his image, they can.

So.. if a muslim called Mohammed does something that would normally result in e.g. getting a theory, comet or buildingstyle named after him, that would not be allowable since he shares his name with a prophet ?

this is ONLY my first post here, smart alac

where you post elsewhere, is the use of gun smileys looked upon with blessings and favor?

It's been suggested to me (by an atheist) that since the teddy bear was not directly made by God, he can't be named after a prophet, but since humans were made by God in his image, they can.

Actions by humans named after the prophet are far worst then the assumed blasphemy of a toy.

Just another example of why we should sever all ties, especially business ties with Islamic fundamentalist countries. Everytime we buy a barrel of oil or buy gas for our vehicles we're giving the okay to this kind of behaviour.

Just another example of why we should sever all ties, especially business ties with Islamic fundamentalist countries. Everytime we buy a barrel of oil or buy gas for our vehicles we're giving the okay to this kind of behaviour.

Yes and no. No: Is it right to punish all the citizens of a state for the actions of that state? Is it right to make all your own citizens pay more for something, because of a foreign-policy decision to sanction a supplier?

But yes on the personal level, the level you ended your post on. Can you buy your "gas" from a supplier who does not use Saudi (etc) oil? Can you fill up on "islamist-free" gas for ten cents more per gallon?

Or will you only pay the extra ten cents if everyone else in your country has to pay it too?

Anytime a state goes against another state either in war or other retalliation citizens are hurt. That's why this kind of action must NEVER be taken lightly. However, sometimes actions of a state are so against our sense of decency that we must act. What we have here are two cultures that both view the other as the essence of evil. IMO the course of action is to dissolve these relationships.
No you can't fill up your tank with "islamist-free" gas. That doesn't change the fact that everytime we do we support the numerous examples of abuse, maiming and death of their citizens and also financially contribute to the injury and deaths of our own soldiers as well as others. How much money per gallon of petro are the lives of our soldiers worth?
And I hope that in the near future we can fill up our tanks with "islamist-free" gas.

*...*

And I hope that in the near future we can fill up our tanks with "islamist-free" gas.

By eliminating the islamists? It's the plainest example of how the market cannot replace government entirely. Was it the market which outlawed slavery in the Western world? Was it the market which deleated Hitler?

I'd like to believe that the market could solve this problem. I'd like to believe that a gas retailer who could certify that none of their product was sourced from the middle east could make a living selling expensive gas.

I'm not seeing that here. Perhaps in some country they sell "ethical petrol."

I have to point out that I hate cars, and I'd still hate them if they ran on good intentions and fairy farts.

this is ONLY my first post here, smart alac

...and the hits keep coming...:rolleyes:

Sudan's leaders are rather used to the sound of western outrage - and have come to realise that, for them, it rarely amounts to much.

Power in Khartoum rests with the combined machinery of national security, police intelligence and the interior ministry.

For the most part these agencies do not meet with Western diplomats - and they have little interest in improving Sudan's relationship with the West.

Shadowy organisations

Running these shadowy organisations are men who have been blamed and in some cases named for arming militias and organising the conflict in Darfur.

What men like them fear most is having to account for their role in atrocities that have killed over 200,000 Darfuris over the last four years.

Their strategy appears to be to keep the Sudanese government at odds with the West and to try and minimise the international presence in the form of both aid workers and peacekeepers.

As part of this the security apparatus seizes on any opportunity to discredit westerners in the eyes of the Sudanese public and Ms Gibbon's detention now seems to fall into that category.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7122007.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7122007.stm

1. It's a bad thing to be quoting without comment. It's a very pertinent quote, and I know roughly what your position would be, but still. If you, a respected contributor to the forum do this, won't newcomers think it's an OK way to make their point too?

2. They went after the teacher instead of blaming the kids. That's a fair cop -- she can go live in Britain, not all of them can.

No surprises here. People, stop using this thread to insult Christians, Hindu's, elc. This is not there fualt, it's the Muslims fualt, and only there fualt.

*shrug* Well, this will certainly get experienced and qualified teachers who want to do some good in the world NOT to consider Sudan.

Killing a head of Hamas is a legitimate military operation in a war as the man is technically a combatant. There is a huge difference between military operations and capital punishment.

Yep.

Capital punishment: high standard of proof required, appeals process, humane method.

Military operation: State secrecy and indemnity for incompetent execution, excessive force, fuck the bystanders.

Capital punishment is better than a military operation. That WAS what you meant, wasn't it?

how many nukes have sudan got?
the british government should not be giving in to these loonies

the brits have given over 300 million pounds sterling to sudan

No surprises here. People, stop using this thread to insult Christians, Hindu's, elc. This is not there fualt, it's the Muslims fualt, and only there fualt.

No, it's YOUR fault. The person who just walking into the thread and deliberately misspelt "fault."

Crap-awful spelling is a capital crime here.

*executes*

how many nukes have sudan got?
the british government should not be giving in to these loonies

In the spirit of fair-mindedness and high principle that your post is offered in, I offer this reply:

Oh, do shut up you fairy Pom.

EDIT: Last post of the night. I don't have to point out that I was drunk, right?

free speech only exists as an usian constitutional concept?

When people reference the first amendment, yes.

As a larger concept, no.

I'm tired of people thinking the US constitution protects them wherever they go on the planet.

No surprises here. People, stop using this thread to insult Christians, Hindu's, elc. This is not there fualt, it's the Muslims fualt, and only there fualt.

only if we consider crazy muslim religious fanatics fundamentally different in kind from all other religious fanatics. they aren't, of course.

how many nukes have sudan got?
the british government should not be giving in to these loonies

the brits have given over 300 million pounds sterling to sudan

Well, you edited this last line in, and it indicates that you're taking your opinion seriously.

The teacher is a British citizen, but when she is overseas she is subject to the laws of whichever country she's in. Sudan's legal system is obviously appalling, but the British government has done everything it can decently do for its citizen: a personal appeal by the foreign minister. The only step beyond that is for the PM to fly to Sudan and talk to their President.

If anything, I feel the British government has already over-reacted, probably because of personal ties to diplomats in Sudan as much as to appease British public opinion. Millions of Sudanese have had to leave their homes for fear of violence, and hundreds of thousands have been killed in the Sudan since 2003, mostly for their ethnicity. Women and children are raped and tortured. They didn't do anything wrong, they just had the bad fortune to live there. The scale of injustice there is appalling.

Have you heard of Darfur? It's a province of the Sudan. No doubt you have heard of the Janjaweed, there are credible reports that they are funded and assisted by this very Sudanese government which Brits are now urging to overturn their own legal process.

Your imputation that Britain should intervene militarily or cut off their substantial aid, because a nice lady of British citizenship breaks a law and gets two weeks in jail ... well, it's just offensive.

Yeah, the Amish and the muslim community have a lot in common.

You know how awful and violent the real fundamentalist Christians are. That's the problem with the mental midgets, they don't even know what a fundamentalist is.

When people reference the first amendment, yes.

did someone?

Yeah, the Amish and the muslim community have a lot in common.

You know how awful and violent the real fundamentalist Christians are. That's the problem with the mental midgets, they don't even know what a fundamentalist is.

OK, super-brain. Define it for us.

I won't even bother trying to educate common idiots of something so obvious.

The Amish are fundamentalist Christians. The Quakers are fundamentalist Christians. So I guess they are violent right? And so meddlesome.

George Bush, Dick Cheney and the social conservatives in the government are not anything close to a fundamentalist Christian. Bush is a fundamentalist because he references God once in awhile or says that he admires Jesus Christ? That's the standard for fundamentalism? Pffft.

I won't even bother trying to educate common idiots of something so obvious.

Fair enough. Common idiots will probably find a dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fundamentalist) more informative anyway.

fun·da·men·tal·ism (fŭn'də-měn'tl-ĭz'əm)
n.

1. A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.
2.
1. often Fundamentalism. An organized, militant Evangelical movement originating in the United States in the late 19th and early 20th century in opposition to Protestant Liberalism and secularism, insisting on the inerrancy of Scripture.
2. Adherence to the theology of this movement.

For a more rounded view, acknowledging the wide usage of the uncapitalized word, there's wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalism).

I won't even bother trying to educate common idiots of something so obvious.

The Amish are fundamentalist Christians. The Quakers are fundamentalist Christians. So I guess they are violent right? And so meddlesome.

George Bush, Dick Cheney and the social conservatives in the government are not anything close to a fundamentalist Christian. Bush is a fundamentalist because he references God once in awhile or says that he admires Jesus Christ? That's the standard for fundamentalism? Pffft.


No, someone like senator sam brownback is a christian fundamentalist who is trying to deystroy seperation of church adn state. Pat Robenson is a fundamentalist. And all of them seem to want to influence my life. The Amish dont. Neither do the quakers
So I guess it comes down to your defenition of fundamentalism. Mine is people who actively campaign to impose their religious beliefs on me. So no, Netither the Amish nor quakers are fundamentalists according to my definition, making your argument invalid

Hahahha, so we can come up with our definitions of words and say that the truth is invalid? Yeah those that try to influence my life are fundamentalists, not the actual believers.

Hmmm that sounds like a great ideology.

Yeah George Bush is a fundamentalist Christian, not the Amish or the Quakers of any of those other pagans.

Well, I hate to interrupt this stimulating conversation on what fundamentalism is, but I just want to get my opinon out here. It'll be brief, I promise.

I think it's terrible, the punishments they're considering for this woman (or have they already decided? I forget.). But she should've done her research. If you know you're going to be in a largely Muslim state, then you should study to find out which lines are crossable and which are not. Her story is an example of what happens when you adapt to a culture instead of assimilating into it.

Hahahha, so we can come up with our definitions of words and say that the truth is invalid? Yeah those that try to influence my life are fundamentalists, not the actual believers.

Hmmm that sounds like a great ideology.

Yeah George Bush is a fundamentalist Christian, not the Amish or the Quakers of any of those other pagans.

*sigh* If you insist on the strictest definition of "fundamentalist" then neither the Amish nor the Quakers are fundamentalists.

The way you react to someone trying to establish what you mean by a loaded word you used (on which your hole position depends, too) is one of the following: (a) ignore them, (b) tell them to look it up, (c) give a clear definition of your own.

Not, the ridiculous braying you are indulging in.

Not, the ridiculous braying you are indulging in.

Which sounds a lot like "3B1L! M05L3MZ! 3B1L! M05L3MZ!" at this point.

I won't even bother trying to educate common idiots of something so obvious.

The Amish are fundamentalist Christians. The Quakers are fundamentalist Christians. So I guess they are violent right? And so meddlesome.

George Bush, Dick Cheney and the social conservatives in the government are not anything close to a fundamentalist Christian. Bush is a fundamentalist because he references God once in awhile or says that he admires Jesus Christ? That's the standard for fundamentalism? Pffft.

I love irony.

Well, I hate to interrupt this stimulating conversation on what fundamentalism is, but I just want to get my opinon out here. It'll be brief, I promise.

I think it's terrible, the punishments they're considering for this woman (or have they already decided? I forget.). But she should've done her research. If you know you're going to be in a largely Muslim state, then you should study to find out which lines are crossable and which are not.

She's about half-way through her 15-day prison sentence.

I kinda agree, and I think a higher standard applies to teachers. She might have considered living there for a few months at least, or perhaps some retraining.

Her story is an example of what happens when you adapt to a culture instead of assimilating into it.

:confused:

If you know you're going to be in a largely Muslim state, then you should study to find out which lines are crossable and which are not.

And naming a teddy bear after a boy who coincidentally happens to share his name with the main prophet is definitely a big nono.

And naming a teddy bear after a boy who coincidentally happens to share his name with the main prophet is definitely a big nono.

Well yes it is. I'd have thought applying the name of the Prophet to an animal (even a toy one), or making insulting images of him, is pretty commonly known to offend.

I'd bear that in mind if I was in a pet shop with arabic writing on their sign. Let alone in a predominantly Muslim country. LET ALONE in a dangerously divided country like the Sudan. LET ALONE teaching children in that country.

I feel the school made a mistake by putting her into the position without proper training. (One of the articles mentioned she'd only been in Sudan since October.)

And I put considerable blame on the Headmistress who didn't see a problem when it was brought to her. One of your teachers letting the kids break the law (even an erratically-enforced law) isn't something to ignore.

If the British government really wants to protect its citizens, they should rescue this woman. Either diplomatically, or militarily, they should act as they would if she were a climber stranded on a mountain.

The Sudan is no place to leave a Christian to the mercy of the courts or mobs.
Especially with their history of jihad against Christians.

Fuck diplomacy, and fuck the toothless, singularly symbolic Muslim peers attempting to secure her release. Send a 100 or so SAS in, secure her release at bayonet point, and then see what Sudan can actually do about it.

Fuck diplomacy, and fuck the toothless, singularly symbolic Muslim peers attempting to secure her release. Send a 100 or so SAS in, secure her release at bayonet point, and then see what Sudan can actually do about it.

That was the sort of direction in which I was leaning...

That was the sort of direction in which I was leaning...

Bloody right. I want to see what the Sudanese government would actually do, and be able to do, if we did simply return her to the UK by force.

Probably complain to the UN and incite Islamic protests in the west. Scary....

Fuck diplomacy, and fuck the toothless, singularly symbolic Muslim peers attempting to secure her release. Send a 100 or so SAS in, secure her release at bayonet point, and then see what Sudan can actually do about it.But what about UK business interests? Won't someone please think of the business community!

It is in the best interests of the UK government to keep relations with Sudan fairly amicable. Violating Sudan's sovereignty would probably not help. And in the grand scheme of things 15 days in jail isn't so much. So long as the woman is kept safe and secure and the British Embassy checks up on her daily then things should be fine. This doesn't meant the UK shouldn't attempt to secure her early release. Not attempting to would probably topple Brown due to the rest of the shit he's up to his neck in at the moment.

OVerall I think the situation has been handled fairly well. Both Sudan and Britain are getting out of this without losing face. And all this woman faces is 7 more days in jail and then she'll be deported back to the UK.

Its a damn Teddy Bear... whats more lovable and adoreable than a Teddy Bear??? I'd see it as a compliment to the name of Muhammed as it shows he's a loveable and adorable profit worthy of an *ahem* peaceful and *ahem* caring religion. The more people talk the more religions (especially Catholicism and Islam) seem like a total waste of time, a new reasont o gain control, earn money, and start wars.

But what about UK business interests? Won't someone please think of the business community!

It is in the best interests of the UK government to keep relations with Sudan fairly amicable. Violating Sudan's sovereignty would probably not help. And in the grand scheme of things 15 days in jail isn't so much. So long as the woman is kept safe and secure and the British Embassy checks up on her daily then things should be fine. This doesn't meant the UK shouldn't attempt to secure her early release. Not attempting to would probably topple Brown due to the rest of the shit he's up to his neck in at the moment.

OVerall I think the situation has been handled fairly well. Both Sudan and Britain are getting out of this without losing face. And all this woman faces is 7 more days in jail and then she'll be deported back to the UK.

That's cowardice of the first order. She has, by any reasonable standards, done nothing to merit a prison sentence, and to allow her to see out her internment panders to the warped sensibilities of whatever passes for government in Sudan. It is nothing short of spineless, craven post-colonial meekness to maintain that we should allow the teacher to see out her sentence.

We are British, we have more financial, diplomatic and military clout than the Sudan, hence we should recover the teacher by force, and hopefully force bongo-bongo land to attack us and see what happens.

That's horrible! Has anyone see a picture of the teacher? She looks like such a sweet old lady. She didn't name the bear, the kids did anyway. I was actually pretty tolerant of islam until now. What a filthy, backwater, thrid-world country Sudan is. I think we ought to go over and bring her home by force. We had the biggest empire the world has ever seen, and now we've been reduced to trying to be diplomatic and politically correct with third-world countries. I think we ought to show them who their messing with. If this had happened under Queen Victoria, they'd be sorry.

Fuck diplomacy
Yep.
and fuck the toothless, singularly symbolic Muslim peers attempting to secure her release.
Hey, at least it shows that some people in the Muslim community actually care about her welfare.
Send a 100 or so SAS in, secure her release at bayonet point, and then see what Sudan can actually do about it.
1) Sending 100 or so of the SAS is completely unfeasible - they're tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as some being kept at home for counter-terrorism, and for another thing, getting them all into Khartoum quickly and quietly would be quite hard.

2) The planning involved to break someone out of prison in any nation's capital, even a shitty nation like Sudan, is not going to be easy. Finding out where she is in the prison, how many guards there are, how many Sudanese troops would be ready to counter-attack them while they were still present, and where a couple of Chinooks could feasibly land, as well as plotting places to refuel them en-route back to the UK, seeing as Khartoum is about 5000 miles from the UK, and the full range of a chinook full of men and equipment would mean about 20 refuels en-route.

That's not the kind of planning that's going to get done within a couple of days, and the logistics of the situation are mental, unless you equally unfeasibly want them to get to and from Kartoum and the UK via airport, in which case, best of luck with that.




She's only in for another 7 days. Pointless wasting our best soldiers on it when after all's been planned and prepped, she'd be in for another couple of days tops, in return for plausibly quite high casualties.

Yep.

She's only in for another 7 days. Pointless wasting our best soldiers on it when after all's been planned and prepped, she'd be in for another couple of days tops, in return for plausibly quite high casualties.

Exactly. That and the fact they were surprised by the response and reduced her sentence suggests they will make sure she will not be hurt. They probably don't even have her in a main prison.....

That's cowardice of the first order. She has, by any reasonable standards, done nothing to merit a prison sentence, and to allow her to see out her internment panders to the warped sensibilities of whatever passes for government in Sudan. It is nothing short of spineless, craven post-colonial meekness to maintain that we should allow the teacher to see out her sentence.

We are British, we have more financial, diplomatic and military clout than the Sudan, hence we should recover the teacher by force, and hopefully force bongo-bongo land to attack us and see what happens.I don't think anything warrants the death penalty, yet the UK has sat back and let other countries execute its citizens. Something much more cowardly than letting a woman sit in jail for two weeks. In fact it's made even more cowardly by the fact that you suggest the UK only violate other country's sovereignty when you think the UK can get away with it. A bully's tactic if ever there was one.

...the toothless, singularly symbolic Muslim peers attempting to secure her release...

Ah, so when one Muslim does something bad, he's "proof that all Muslims are evil", and when they do something good, they're just "symbolic", just one.

And you call yourself smart, with obvious fallacies like these?

I don't think anything warrants the death penalty, yet the UK has sat back and let other countries execute its citizens. Something much more cowardly than letting a woman sit in jail for two weeks. In fact it's made even more cowardly by the fact that you suggest the UK only violate other country's sovereignty when you think the UK can get away with it. A bully's tactic if ever there was one.

Infinite.. if you read up on your history... Great Britain/The UK was prolly the biggest bully the world has ever seen.

Infinite.. if you read up on your history... Great Britain/The UK was prolly the biggest bully the world has ever seen.What's your point? That was then, this is now.

Infinite.. if you read up on your history... Great Britain/The UK was prolly the biggest bully the world has ever seen.
As British subjects, we are taught to ignore this / taught that this was wrong, and that being more compassionate is what makes you the better man.

You have a guess which one, squire ;)

Ah, so when one Muslim does something bad, he's "proof that all Muslims are evil", and when they do something good, they're just "symbolic", just one.

And you call yourself smart, with obvious fallacies like these?

I have never, to my knowledge, maintained that suicide bombers are representative of Islam, just as the IRA were not representative of Ireland. I have, and still would, maintain that suicide bombing, and the internal divisions within Islam, preclude integration, but not that suicide bombings and the likes of Abu Hamsa are representative of Islam as a whole.

However, you misconstrue my intention. I do not contend that Warsi or her colleagues are unique, or estanged from the muslim community at large, since one cannot deal with British Islam as a homogenous entity. They are, in all likelihood, representative of more affluent, westernised muslims, but still essentially symbolic. Dispatching the foreign secretary and a few military repsentatives, just to remind whoever rules Sudan of how they'd look as a plate of glass, would be infintely more effective. Sayeed Warsi (vile, banal woman incidentally, not fit to sit at the feet of Thatcher) and whoever else will accompany her may well be well intentioned. Frankly, whether they are or are not is immaterial; they will accomplish fuck all except to allow the arch-prophets of multi-culturalism to exult and hold them as evidence of the reality of full integration.

Infinite.. if you read up on your history... Great Britain/The UK was prolly the biggest bully the world has ever seen.

What academic pedigree you do have. Labelling a country a "bully". My word, I'm simply gushing with admiration at your eloquence and diction.

I could not, while we deal with the subject, care less whether or not Britain was a despicable-imperialist-slave-trading-capitalist-exploitative power. I do take great pride in the fact that we did possess the largest empire the world has ever seen, and were a pre-eminent global power.

I have never, to my knowledge, maintained that suicide bombers are representative of Islam, just as the IRA were not representative of Ireland. I have, and still would, maintain that suicide bombing, and the internal divisions within Islam, preclude integration, but not that suicide bombings and the likes of Abu Hamsa are representative of Islam as a whole.
The internal divisions within Islam preclude integration? What about the internal divisions within Christianity? Or Hinduism, or any other religion?
However, you misconstrue my intention. I do not contend that Warsi or her colleagues are unique, or estanged from the muslim community at large, since one cannot deal with British Islam as a homogenous entity. They are, in all likelihood, representative of more affluent, westernised muslims, but still essentially symbolic.
Well since Warsi and Co. can't really do much about the situation themselves, symbolic opposition is how it'll stay.
Dispatching the foreign secretary and a few military repsentatives, just to remind whoever rules Sudan of how they'd look as a plate of glass, would be infintely more effective.
I'd still personally love to hear how your SAS assault plan is remotely viable, or indeed, from this train of thought, how you think that nuclear destruction is really a suitable response to having someone in jail for fifteen days.
Sayeed Warsi (vile, banal woman incidentally, not fit to sit at the feet of Thatcher) and whoever else will accompany her may well be well intentioned. Frankly, whether they are or are not is immaterial; they will accomplish fuck all
As will nuking Sudan.
except to allow the arch-prophets of multi-culturalism to exult and hold them as evidence of the reality of full integration.
Oh noes, multiculturalism...

What academic pedigree you do have. Labelling a country a "bully". My word, I'm simply gushing with admiration at your eloquence and diction.

I could not, while we deal with the subject, care less whether or not Britain was a despicable-imperialist-slave-trading-capitalist-exploitative power. I do take great pride in the fact that we did possess the largest empire the world has ever seen, and were a pre-eminent global power.

You assume I am insulting them by labeling them a bully. I'm stating a fact, nothing more. How did Persia get so powerful? They were a bully.. they got what they wanted by taking it, same as Macedonia, same as Rome, same as the United Sates does now... hell the same as the Cro-Magnon man did to the Neanderthal and the same we as a species have gained dominance over other species (cept for germs and cockroaches). Its a fact.. they were once upon a time bullies, and despite all they do now taking back one of thier citizens by force if they deemed it necesary would in no way be out of character for the British Empire.. in fact it could even be a step in the right direction.

It don't mean I am insulting them, and it doesn't mean I condone thier actions. I stated a fact, one garnered off my knowledge of history.

apologies if posted earlier...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Wary_of_Mohammed_teddy_row_UK_author_changes_characters/articleshow/2589772.cms
Wary of Mohammed teddy row, UK author changes characters

LONDON: First there was Mohammed the Mole and Dipak the Dalmatian . Now there is Morgan the Mole and Dipak the Dalmatian . A British children's author who named his fictitious mole Mohammed and the dog Dipak in an attempt to promote multi-culturalism, has backed away from the first for fear of offending Muslims.

Author Kes Gray said he changed the mole's name after reading about the fate of British school teacher Gillian Gibbons who is in prison in Sudan for allowing her class to name a teddy bear Mohammed.

Gray told The Sunday Times , London that he "had no idea at all of the sensitivities of the name Mohammed until seeing this case in Sudan" and he added that the Hindu and Muslim names for his animals characters had merely been a way to "embrace other cultures...I had no idea it would backfire like this. I was in Egypt this year and everyone was called Mohammed. I just thought it was a popular name".

Gray's book, an illustrated volume called Who's Poorly Too , has sold 40,000 copies in Britain and abroad over the last eight years it has been in print. But the author says he decided to postpone a re-print and rename the mole to guard against the possibility of trouble from angry Muslims.

Many believe Gray's self-censorship and caution may be political correctness gone mad especially as he has never received any complaints about the mole's name and many British Muslims have robustly attacked the Sudanese hardline on Gibbons as a bad advert for Islam.

The overwhelming British Muslim plea for Gibbons to have been spared by the Sudanese judges came as 10,000 teddies, named Adam the Muslim Prayer Bear, were reportedly bought by Muslim families in Britain to raise money for Sudanese refugees. Adam bear's name is that of another prophet of Islam and at £ 15 a piece, he recites Assalam-o-alaikum when his paws are pressed.

The bears, marketed by the Islamic Society of Britain, to raise funds for charity, have not sparked unease or complaints in the three years they have been sold.


Fear of offending muslims.

So the Sudanese muslims who say that it is an offense are correct. :confused:

If they are wrong, then why should this author be afraid of offending muslims? ;)

You assume I am insulting them by labeling them a bully. I'm stating a fact, nothing more. How did Persia get so powerful? They were a bully.. they got what they wanted by taking it, same as Macedonia, same as Rome, same as the United Sates does now... hell the same as the Cro-Magnon man did to the Neanderthal and the same we as a species have gained dominance over other species (cept for germs and cockroaches). Its a fact.. they were once upon a time bullies, and despite all they do now taking back one of thier citizens by force if they deemed it necesary would in no way be out of character for the British Empire.. in fact it could even be a step in the right direction.

It don't mean I am insulting them, and it doesn't mean I condone thier actions. I stated a fact, one garnered off my knowledge of history.

Bully has emotive, perjorative connotations that obscure meaning and clarity. I quite agree regarding British conduct, however. It was impeccably self-interested.:)

apologies if posted earlier...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Wary_of_Mohammed_teddy_row_UK_author_changes_characters/articleshow/2589772.cms


Fear of offending muslims.

So the Sudanese muslims who say that it is an offense are correct. :confused:
No. They're wrong.

Even the Sudanese (muslim) ambassador to the UK agrees.

This is a political matter, not a religious one.

If they are wrong, then why should this author be afraid of offending muslims? ;)
This:

Many believe Gray's self-censorship and caution may be political correctness gone mad especially as he has never received any complaints about the mole's name and many British Muslims have robustly attacked the Sudanese hardline on Gibbons as a bad advert for Islam.
...and because he's a moron, apparently.

...and because he's a moron, apparently.

I think (IMHO of course) that he is feeling "why invite trouble unnecessarily"...but I think it is necessary not to modify behaviour / thoughts because of "let's not offend muslims because they riot / are violent".

Its not like islamists are going to scale down their "angry because we are offended" argument...there will be no end to this other than converting wholesale to islam...and then it will be "oh you are not islamic enough" (that's what we see in fully/majority islamic countries).

Another example

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/taslimas-truce-stifled-or-freedom-compromised/53382-3-single.html
Controversial Bangladeshi author Taslima Nasreen on Friday buckled under pressure from protestors and the Government by withdrawing passages from her autobiography Dwikhandita that were believed to be anti-Islamic. She told CNN-IBN that for the first time in her life, a so-called secular India had forced her to compromise on her freedom of expression.

Dwikhandita was banned in West Bengal in 2003. The Kolkata High Court had to intervene to allow the book to be sold but the protests against Taslima’s writings has left artists, writers and free thinkers aghast in the country.

Her self-censorship is encouraged by incidents like violent protests, riots and fatwas and not to mention the direct physical assault on her by NO LESS than an elected member of the legislative assembly. The person on the right attempting to throw a book (?) at her is an elected member of the MIM (Majlis-e Ittihad al-Muslimin) party of Hyderabad.

http://www.sajaforum.org/images/2007/08/11/bhangra.gif

Now, here's the kind of reaction that I like to see... Can't name a Teddy Bear after Mohammed? How about a Pink Pig?

http://worldnetdaily.com/images2/kellerspig.jpg

Incidentally, we have Christmas ride that's a tradition in Atlanta. The Rich's Pink Pig. Wonder if Moslem children can ride that beast?

Back to ignoring points made with a quick troll I see... its either that or your usual tactic of cutting and running I suppose

Incidentally, we have Christmas ride that's a tradition in Atlanta. The Rich's Pink Pig. .......?

Well, if it keeps you away from re-adopting lynching the "Christmas negro" as the festive activity of choice....not that the legacy of intolerance, bigotry and hate seems alive and well or anything....