NationStates Jolt Archive

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A cruel and tragic joke — and not the least bit funny
By Leonard Pitts
11/25/2007

Have you heard about the practical joke that was played on a girl in Dardenne Prairie, near St. Louis? You're going to slap your knee at this one. You're going to bust a gut.

See, this girl — Megan Meier was her name — was 13. You remember 13, that gawky, uncertain age when you're growing into a new body, hormones firing off like howitzers. They say Megan was a heavyset child, emotionally vulnerable as only an adolescent girl can be. They say she had ADD and struggled with depression.

Are you laughing yet?

It seems Megan had this friend, a girl who lived a few doors down. Through seventh grade, they had gone round and round: best friends one day, feuding the next, the way kids do. Finally, Megan broke off the friendship for good. She was done with the other girl.

This all happened last year, by the way, but we are indebted to reporter Steve Pokin of the Suburban Journals for bringing it to our attention just days ago. Since then, the story has made national headlines.

Because everybody loves a good joke.

So anyway, sometime after Megan and the other girl ended their relationship, this guy named Josh Evans shows up on Megan's MySpace page saying he wants to be added as a friend. And this Josh, he's like a gift from the god of cute boys. He's new in town, home schooled, fatherless, a musician, a major hottie. And he wants to be friends. He thinks Megan is pretty. Chunky, socially awkward Megan.

She describes herself to him with an acrostic. M, for modern. E, for enthusiastic. G, for goofy. A, for alluring. N, for neglected.

For a time, everything was good. Oh, it was strange that Josh never gave her a phone number and never asked for hers, but Megan overlooked that. Then Josh sent that strange message: "I don't know if I want to be friends with you anymore because I've heard that you are not very nice to your friends." Megan was shocked. Where was this coming from?

It was a Sunday night. As it turned out, the last Sunday of Megan's life. Are you laughing yet?

The next day after school, Megan asked her mother — Tina Meier restricted Megan's online access — to log on the computer so Megan could check for new messages. What she found horrified her. Josh was still sending mean notes. And he apparently had been sharing her messages with others.

Now the online community was abuzz with invective. Megan was fat. Megan was a slut.

Megan was destroyed. Especially after one last hateful message from Josh. "You are a bad person and everybody hates you," he said. "The world would be a better place without you."

He got his wish just hours later. Megan Meier hanged herself that night.

Weeks later, her family got the punch line. There never was a Josh. He was a fiction, created by the parents, Curt and Lori Drew, of the girl who had once been Megan's friend.

By. The. Parents.

People have threatened and harassed the Drews, and there are fears for their safety. No fears of prosecution, though; what they did broke no laws. But me, I don't want to hurt or jail them. I just want them to know how funny that joke was. How hee-fricking-larious.

No one wants acceptance quite as desperately as an adolescent girl who has never been the most popular, never been the prettiest. What brilliance, what comic genius, to take that vulnerability and use it against her.

So no, I don't want these folks hurt. I want them healthy. I want them long-lived. And I want them to be reminded, every day of their long, healthy lives, what a great joke they pulled.

They really paid Megan back. They really got her good.

E-mail: lpitts@miamiherald.com

copyright The Miami Herald
Link (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/columnists.nsf/leonardpitts/story/E688A4158E429E618625739E006D43A9?OpenDocument)

There's sticking up for your kid, and then there's being a dick, and then there's the Drew's.

This was posted last week, I believe.

I got pissed at the person who posted it, cuz they said "epic lulz"

Those parents that did this should be shot straight in the face. Disgusting pigs.

This was posted last week, I believe.

I got pissed at the person who posted it, cuz they said "epic lulz"

Those parents that did this should be shot straight in the face. Disgusting pigs.

I think they should be forced to live with Megan's family for the rest of their lives. Get a house that's big enough for two families.

I think they should be forced to live with Megan's family for the rest of their lives. Get a house that's big enough for two families.

And then we should turn it into a reality TV show.

:p

What about other teens who commit suicide as well because of situations where it was their peer's fault by doing the same thing these parents did? That is wrong and often undocumented

So many people pick on people in school and then HS. These people are treated badly. My HS was not that bad but I was shocked to hear stories from some HS where real bullying is allowed. Teen suicide rate is high, I wonder how many teen suicides are from bullying or depression due to treatment by peers?

People always want to say "Oh their just kids" or "Toughen up it is high school" but to me HS, and before that middle school was more petty and crueler than the real world because it is an emotionally turbulent time.

Workplace drama can (normally) be dealt with by grown adults, and most people are more mature than to pull petty stunts like what was in school or high school. But when your there in school, young, and emotionally sensitive you suffer a lot of pain.

What about other teens who commit suicide as well because of situations where it was their peer's fault by doing the same thing these parents did? That is wrong and often undocumented

So many people pick on people in school and then HS. These people are treated badly. My HS was not that bad but I was shocked to hear stories from some HS where real bullying is allowed. Teen suicide rate is high, I wonder how many teen suicides are from bullying or depression due to treatment by peers?

People always want to say "Oh their just kids" or "Toughen up it is high school" but to me HS, and before that middle school was more petty and crueler than the real world because it is an emotionally turbulent time.

Workplace drama can (normally) be dealt with by grown adults, and most people are more mature than to pull petty stunts like what was in school or high school. But when your there in school, young, and emotionally sensitive you suffer a lot of pain.

QFT, Middle School and High School were Hell for me.

Sometimes I love Stumbleupon, sometimes I don't.


Link (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/columnists.nsf/leonardpitts/story/E688A4158E429E618625739E006D43A9?OpenDocument)

There's sticking up for your kid, and then there's being a dick, and then there's the Drew's.

I find it shocking that act isn't illegal because that truly is "criminally insensitive".

Parents acting like children. Sigh....

Sometimes I love Stumbleupon, sometimes I don't.


Link (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/columnists.nsf/leonardpitts/story/E688A4158E429E618625739E006D43A9?OpenDocument)

There's sticking up for your kid, and then there's being a dick, and then there's the Drew's.

I said it befoer and I'll say it again, the people involved in this prank are as bad if not worse than the people who pulled a SURPRISINGLY similar "JOKE" on me! :mad::mp5: They ruined my life but in her case they actually ended it. And how the hell is ANY of this funny? Anyone who laughs at this should be neutered or castrated!

Parents acting like children. Sigh....

The free world should make sure they never have kids again!

that should be manslaughter at least. despicable.

Manslaughter is the legal term for the killing of a human in a manner considered by law as less culpable than murder.

The law generally differentiates between levels of criminal culpability based on the mens rea, or state of mind. This is particularly true within the law of homicide, where murder requires either the intent to kill, a state of mind called malice or malice aforethought, which may involve an unintentional killing but with a willful disregard for life.

Manslaughter is usually broken down into two distinct categories: voluntary manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter.


Involuntary manslaughter, sometimes called criminally negligent homicide in the United States, gross negligence manslaughter in the UK or culpable homicide in Scotland, occurs where there is no intention to kill or cause serious injury but death is due to recklessness or criminal negligence.

i'd try to get the parents for that. they deserve jail time

I said it befoer and I'll say it again, the people involved in this prank are as bad if not worse than the people who pulled a SURPRISINGLY similar "JOKE" on me! :mad::mp5: They ruined my life but in her case they actually ended it. And how the hell is ANY of this funny? Anyone who laughs at this should be neutered or castrated!

They didn't end her life, she did. People ending their lives over being picked on isn't that rare of an occurrence, sometimes it's over practical jokes, the only difference here was that it was a parents fault and suddenly everyone is up in arms.

Once again we're shown that just because you're an adult doesn't mean you've grown up.

that should be manslaughter at least. despicable.



i'd try to get the parents for that. they deserve jail time

I was thinking that myself.

I would say at least criminal negligence. No reasonable adult would have done something like this yet three adults did.

At the very least they should have their asses sued off.

They didn't end her life, she did. People ending their lives over being picked on isn't that rare of an occurrence, sometimes it's over practical jokes, the only difference here was that it was a parents fault and suddenly everyone is up in arms.

Umm sorry let me re-read what you wrote so that I have it correct.......

Are you saying that suicide due to bullying is common place and that we should all be up in arms about regardless of who initializes it?

They didn't end her life, she did. People ending their lives over being picked on isn't that rare of an occurrence, sometimes it's over practical jokes, the only difference here was that it was a parents fault and suddenly everyone is up in arms.

Umm, ya, because everyone expects Adults to act like they're more than about ten years old.

Now, as for what I want done to these people, I suggest the following;
Tie them to a post a few feet thick, life them off the ground with a few cinderblocks. Take the type of nails they used to crucify people in Rome, heat 'em up to be red hot, and drive one through each thigh and each upper arm. Take away the cinder blocks. Next, take a saw and cut up and down their legs, making a cut every two inches or so. Dump salt on the wounds, then cauterize them. Next, take a red hot fire poker and burn out their tongue and ears. Finally, take hooks, insert into their belly, pull. Dump molten lead on their innards, shove them back into the body cavity, and watch until they die. Provide Adrenaline IV's to make sure they stay away through the entire thing as well.

QFT, Middle School and High School were Hell for me.

Middle school was pure suffering.

Middle school was the crucible that turned me from an honest, friendly and gentle human being into an embittered and emotionally withdrawn human being for six years. I failed to connect on a basic level with anyone (it felt like) because of the mistrust I had developed for my peers.

Not only that, but, by the end of eighth grade I had developed a substantial quantity of neuroses that took ages to overcome.

Umm sorry let me re-read what you wrote so that I have it correct.......

Are you saying that suicide due to bullying is common place and that we should all be up in arms about regardless of who initializes it?

The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic.

Everyone knows that outrages become less outrageous the larger they are.

The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic.

Everyone knows that outrages become less outrageous the larger they are.

Unless so many books, TV shows, movies, and stories have been told about them that you get an inkling of what it was like (read: Holocaust). Thats all there is to it. If you can get an idea of what it would be llike if it happened to you, it no longer seems less outrageous.

The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic.

Everyone knows that outrages become less outrageous the larger they are.

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." -John Donne

That someday some of you will be on juries frankly frightens me. What the parents did was in poor taste and resulted in an unfortunate and unforseen end but frankly thats all it is. The Drews didnt kill her she killed herself. The Drews didnt make her fat. The Drews didnt give her any of the problems that she was clearly having issues with. The Drews have a perfect right to an opinion and they have a perfect right to lie as long as they dont slander an actual real individual. If they did in some way slander the girl then thats what civil courts are for. Torture? Imprisionment? Please. That people on these boards want to jail and torture people who are guilty of nothing more then poor judgement and bad taste astounds me.

That someday some of you will be on juries frankly frightens me. What the parents did was in poor taste and resulted in an unfortunate and unforseen end but frankly thats all it is. The Drews didnt kill her she killed herself. The Drews didnt make her fat. The Drews didnt give her any of the problems that she was clearly having issues with. The Drews have a perfect right to an opinion and they have a perfect right to lie as long as they dont slander an actual real individual. If they did in some way slander the girl then thats what civil courts are for. Torture? Imprisionment? Please. That people on these boards want to jail and torture people who are guilty of nothing more then poor judgement and bad taste astounds me.

Bullying should be punished. In any form, and no matter who it comes from. Do you disagree with this?

Bullying should be punished. In any form, and no matter who it comes from. Do you disagree with this?

Its called life, get used to it. It doesnt stop on the playground nor does it stop past adolesence. It just changes form, instead of jamming someone into a locker, it turns into an adult form and people like Senator Craig get bullied by fellow members of congress to resign because he allegedly has a wide stance. Now shrink that to every office politics in the country. Same shit different form. Get used to it. And no it shouldnt be punished as its called life.

Its called life, get used to it. It doesnt stop on the playground nor does it stop past adolesence. It just changes form, instead of jamming someone into a locker, it turns into an adult form and people like Senator Craig get bullied by fellow members of congress to resign because he allegedly has a wide stance. Now shrink that to every office politics in the country. Same shit different form. Get used to it. And no it shouldnt be punished as its called life.

You call it life, others call it bullying. You're happy to just let it be, others, especially the victims, are not. By acting as if it's ok and just part of life you're only propogating it, and I'd rather not imagine what kind of shitty life you have if you think that unwarranted suffering is a standard part of it.

That someday some of you will be on juries frankly frightens me. What the parents did was in poor taste and resulted in an unfortunate and unforseen end but frankly thats all it is.
Well it's ok that they didn't mean to kill her. Oh wait, there are laws against killing people unintentionally too!
The Drews didnt kill her she killed herself.
They just pushed her to it.
The Drews didnt make her fat.
They just bullied her because of it
The Drews didnt give her any of the problems that she was clearly having issues with.
They just abused them in a cheap attempt to get revenge for their daughter. The Drews have a perfect right to an opinion and they have a perfect right to lie as long as they dont slander an actual real individual. If they did in some way slander the girl then thats what civil courts are for.
I guess bullies have a perfect right to verbally harass their victims too, right? Torture? Imprisionment? Please. That people on these boards want to jail and torture people who are guilty of nothing more then poor judgement and bad taste astounds me.

Not poor judgement and bad taste. Bullying that lead to a person's death.

Its called life, get used to it. It doesnt stop on the playground nor does it stop past adolesence. It just changes form, instead of jamming someone into a locker, it turns into an adult form and people like Senator Craig get bullied by fellow members of congress to resign because he allegedly has a wide stance. Now shrink that to every office politics in the country. Same shit different form. Get used to it. And no it shouldnt be punished as its called life.

Ahhhh so then any and all aspects of life should be permitted? We should let drink drivers drink drive, and to the parents of those killed by drunk drivers we can say 'it's called life, get used to it'?

There is no punishment that we as a society can level against these people that could be greater than that which they would level against themselves, the guilt and recriminations that would likely result.

Of course, I could be wrong, and they might be sufficiently huge douchebags as to be able to shrug this one off without any moral repercussions.

I figure we should impose some jail time, just in case.

There is no punishment that we as a society can level against these people that could be greater than that which they would level against themselves, the guilt and recriminations that would likely result.

Of course, I could be wrong, and they might be sufficiently huge douchebags as to be able to shrug this one off without any moral repercussions.

You may well be right in the former, it could also be the latter. I know many repentant bullies, and many not so repentant.

There is no punishment that we as a society can level against these people that could be greater than that which they would level against themselves, the guilt and recriminations that would likely result.

Of course, I could be wrong, and they might be sufficiently huge douchebags as to be able to shrug this one off without any moral repercussions.

It doesn't astound me, at all. It saddens me, a little, as all knee-jerk reactions do (especially my own) but seeing those kind of opinions expressed is not exactly a rarity, so I'm certainly not astounded.

I'd like to think that there could be some form of punishment for these people but, at the end of the day, they haven't actually broken any laws as far as I can make out. There might be some kind of slander prosecution that could be brought but I'm no lawyer, so I'm in no position to judge.




People kill themselves over all sorts of things. Some people are so sensitive and/or insecure that it takes very little to put them into a suicidal frame of mind. It not nice, and it's not pretty, but it's the way that it is.

What about harassment laws?

That people on these boards want to jail and torture people who are guilty of nothing more then poor judgement and bad taste astounds me.
It doesn't astound me, at all. It saddens me, a little, as all knee-jerk reactions do (especially my own) but seeing those kind of opinions expressed is not exactly a rarity, so I'm certainly not astounded.

I'd like to think that there could be some form of punishment for these people but, at the end of the day, they haven't actually broken any laws as far as I can make out. There might be some kind of slander prosecution that could be brought but I'm no lawyer, so I'm in no position to judge.

People kill themselves over all sorts of things. Some people are so sensitive and/or insecure that it takes very little to put them into a suicidal frame of mind. It not nice, and it's not pretty, but it's the way that it is.

Well it's ok that they didn't mean to kill her. Oh wait, there are laws against killing people unintentionally too!

Again, they did not kill her, she killed herself, therefore they did not kill her intentionally, unintentionally or otherwise. Hence punishment for unintentional death would not apply.

They just pushed her to it.

Even if this was true, what part of this is illegal and deserving of torture and imprisionment? They simply expressed thier opinion which they are legally entitled to.

They just bullied her because of it

Even if this was true, what part of this is illegal and deserving of torture and imprisionment? They simply expressed thier opinion which they are legally entitled to.

They just abused them in a cheap attempt to get revenge for their daughter.

Even if this was true, what part of this is illegal and deserving of torture and imprisionment? They simply expressed thier opinion which they are legally entitled to.

I guess bullies have a perfect right to verbally harass their victims too, right?

Bullies also have a right to have an opinion. This is also not illegal nor deserving imprisionment or torture.

You call it life, others call it bullying. You're happy to just let it be, others, especially the victims, are not. By acting as if it's ok and just part of life you're only propogating it, and I'd rather not imagine what kind of shitty life you have if you think that unwarranted suffering is a standard part of it.

I dont know what planet you live on but within 50 feet of you at any given second trillions of things are living and dying, being eaten alive, diseased and in thier own form of pain. Pain is absolutly a standard part of life and im not making any effort to stop that nasty infection on that earthworm on the sidewalk either. You pick your battles, and of all the horrible murder and mayhem out there to be worried about this doesnt make the cut.

They just pushed her to it
[
Even if this was true, what part of this is illegal and deserving of torture and imprisionment? They simply expressed thier opinion which they are legally entitled to.

the bit where they harrased a teenage girl with depression, told her that she should kill herself?

Again, they did not kill her, she killed herself, therefore they did not kill her intentionally, unintentionally or otherwise. Hence punishment for unintentional death would not apply.
She died as a direct result of their actions.



Even if this was true,
You're suggesting it's not?
what part of this is illegal and deserving of torture and imprisionment?
Their actions directly lead to the death of another human being. I'm not a lawyer, but that should be manslaughter at the least.
They simply expressed thier opinion which they are legally entitled to.
No, they tricked a vulnerable girl into trusting them, and then violated that trust and proceeded to harass her, all because she didn't want to be friends with her daughter anymore. That's not expressing an opinion.



Even if this was true,
You're suggesting it's not?
what part of this is illegal and deserving of torture and imprisionment?
Their actions directly lead to the death of another human being. I'm not a lawyer, but that should be manslaughter at the least.
They simply expressed thier opinion which they are legally entitled to.
No, they tricked a vulnerable girl into trusting them, and then violated that trust and proceeded to harass her, all because she didn't want to be friends with her daughter anymore. That's not expressing an opinion.



Even if this was true,
You're suggesting it's not?
what part of this is illegal and deserving of torture and imprisionment?
Their actions directly lead to the death of another human being. I'm not a lawyer, but that should be manslaughter at the least.
They simply expressed thier opinion which they are legally entitled to.
No, they tricked a vulnerable girl into trusting them, and then violated that trust and proceeded to harass her, all because she didn't want to be friends with her daughter anymore. That's not expressing an opinion.



Bullies also have a right to have an opinion. This is also not illegal nor deserving imprisionment or torture.
But they don't have the right to harass people.
I dont know what planet you live on but within 50 feet of you at any given second trillions of things are living and dying, being eaten alive, diseased and in thier own form of pain. Pain is absolutly a standard part of life and im not making any effort to stop that nasty infection on that earthworm on the sidewalk either. You pick your battles, and of all the horrible murder and mayhem out there to be worried about this doesnt make the cut.
In your opinion. Just because you don't give a shit about bullying doesn't mean that it's not worth giving a shit about.

Rolling squid;13244573']the bit where they harrased a teenage girl with depression, told her that she should kill herself?

Thats not exactly what they said. The OP is vague but the cite is
"The world would be a better place without you." Are you telling me that the Drews shouldnt be entitled to thier opinion and should then be imprisioned and/ or tortured for thier opinion?

She died as a direct result of their actions.

No she died as a direct result of a sucessful suicide. If your going to assert that those things the neighbors said about her indirectly resulted in her suicide then you have to look at the millions of other indirect factors that could have led to her suicide as well. She was depressed and some depressed people kill themselves for absolutly no apparent reason at all. Maybe she had a fight with her parents a month ago and just hadnt gotten over it maybe this internet thing was just the straw that broke the camels back so to speak or any of a billion other indirect things that could cause a suicide in a disturbed persons death. And often these are questions that can never really be answered. Calling for these neighbors to be tortured and imprisioned without knowing the answers to these vital questions is simple insanity.

No she died as a direct result of a sucessful suicide.

which she was driven to by the parents.

Rolling squid;13244620']which she was driven to by the parents.

Which, I might add, would not have happened without the parents, either.

There is a direct relationship between the actions of her friend's parents, and her death.

Sometimes I love Stumbleupon, sometimes I don't.


Link (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/columnists.nsf/leonardpitts/story/E688A4158E429E618625739E006D43A9?OpenDocument)

There's sticking up for your kid, and then there's being a dick, and then there's the Drew's.

Because I have stated that I prefer logic to justice, I must say that logically speaking these parents should not be punished. I personally feel they deserve torture, but torturing someone is completely illogical.

However, they should not be allowed to become parents again. If they have any other children they should be forced to put them up for adoption, and the same applies to any children they have in the future.

Also, they should be flagged as adults unsuitable for relations with children, and watched with the caution one watches an ex-child molester.

I said it befoer and I'll say it again, the people involved in this prank are as bad if not worse than the people who pulled a SURPRISINGLY similar "JOKE" on me! :mad::mp5: They ruined my life but in her case they actually ended it. And how the hell is ANY of this funny? Anyone who laughs at this should be neutered or castrated!

What if its a woman who laughs? Should she be spayed?

Because I have stated that I prefer logic to justice, I must say that logically speaking these parents should not be punished. I personally feel they deserve torture, but torturing someone is completely illogical.

However, they should not be allowed to become parents again. If they have any other children they should be forced to put them up for adoption, and the same applies to any children they have in the future.

Also, they should be flagged as adults unsuitable for relations with children, and watched with the caution one watches an ex-child molester.

Not that I don't agree with you. You do realise though that logic is not the 'default' mode for us human animals don't you?

Are you saying that suicide due to bullying is common place and that we should all be up in arms about regardless of who initializes it?

I never said common-place, I said "not that rare". "Not that rare" is still rare, and yeah I think a little consistency would be nice, where are the other threads calling for the torture and imprisonment of bullies?

I understand that the reactions are due to adults and a death being involved, but it still seems like a big jump from what I usually see. It's possible that I'm just not seeing it, but one way or another I'm not seeing it.

Also I agree that Intestinal Fluids is taking a similar train of thought too far.

Umm sorry let me re-read what you wrote so that I have it correct.......

Are you saying that suicide due to bullying is common place and that we should all be up in arms about regardless of who initializes it?

Well, I do think that's a valid point. I think driving someone to suicide should be illegal.

This is probably yet another reason why licenses to become parents might be a good idea.

Aren't there laws against coercing a young, mentally unstable child to commiting suicide? Also, harrasment laws. I don't think that they should be torture however there should be some form of punishment for those two offenses.

Also I agree that Intestinal Fluids is taking a similar train of thought too far.

Fuck, I could walk up to IF and shoot him in the face and say "That's life, suck it up champ," and walk away, following his logic.

Even if this was true, what part of this is illegal and deserving of torture and imprisionment? They simply expressed thier opinion which they are legally entitled to.

The Drews are certainly allowed to think Meaghan Meier was being silly in "dumping" their daughter as a friend and they're certainly allowed to dislike (or even hate) her for doing that. However, creating a fake MySpace profile with a direct intent to harass and intimidate her oversteps the bounds- there was direct intent to harm, and, if nothing else, they are being disrespectful of Meier's opinion (of which she's also entitled to) that she didn't want to be friends with their daughter.

No one is saying that Meier "has to be liked"- the only point of contention is how it was handled.

No she died as a direct result of a sucessful suicide. If your going to assert that those things the neighbors said about her indirectly resulted in her suicide then you have to look at the millions of other indirect factors that could have led to her suicide as well. She was depressed and some depressed people kill themselves for absolutly no apparent reason at all. Maybe she had a fight with her parents a month ago and just hadnt gotten over it maybe this internet thing was just the straw that broke the camels back so to speak or any of a billion other indirect things that could cause a suicide in a disturbed persons death. And often these are questions that can never really be answered. Calling for these neighbors to be tortured and imprisioned without knowing the answers to these vital questions is simple insanity.

All of those things you said "might" be true, but based on the evidence at hand (Meier receives derogatory and hurtful messages from her former friends' parents posing as a "new boy") and the result (Meier hangs herself), there's no reason to suspect any other conclusion. Granted, the article itself is just one source, but, based on that source anyway, there's no evidence that anything other than the Drews' complete lack of people skills did anything to cause Meier to end her life.

At first I was so staggered by this story that I looked it up in Snopes.com as a possible hoax. Unfortunately, I'm reeling from finding out that it. is. very. true.

This just sickens me and makes me think we need to institute a licensing process before anyone is allowed to have children. In the case of people like the Drews, that should include emotional-psychological profiling. Doesn't matter if they're 30, 45, 58 or otherwise, their joint emotional age is hovering right about 12. At best. Prove you're emotionally mature enough to raise a kid, and you can have one.

Maybe what the Drews did wasn't breaking any specific laws but I think CPS should yank their kid, and the Meiers would be extremely justified in suing them back to the clothes they're wearing. That's the rule-of-law answer. A fair street justice application would be to surgically sterilize and brand "Child-Killer" on the Drews' chests and run them out of St. Charles, MO with torches and pitchforks.

I'm glad there are laws being initiated against cyber-bullying coming out of this.

Get used to it. And no it shouldnt be punished as its called life.

Intestinal Fluids, you are very deserving of your screen name.

You wouldn't be involved with Dobson's gang, would you?

Did you tell the families of the tower-fall victims that it was their own damn fault for working there?

Since you seem to follow the path of the scorched heart and built up a body-wide callous that goes down to the bone, I'm sure none of this would touch you in the least. Enjoy your fucked-up life, and I feel sorry for your kids.

:upyours:

that should be manslaughter at least. despicable.



i'd try to get the parents for that. they deserve jail time

Indeed.

I never said common-place, I said "not that rare". "Not that rare" is still rare, and yeah I think a little consistency would be nice, where are the other threads calling for the torture and imprisonment of bullies?

I understand that the reactions are due to adults and a death being involved, but it still seems like a big jump from what I usually see. It's possible that I'm just not seeing it, but one way or another I'm not seeing it.

Also I agree that Intestinal Fluids is taking a similar train of thought too far.

For the record yeah I agree with you, I would like to see a huge hue and cry over every instance of bullying.

No she died as a direct result of a sucessful suicide.
Which she wouldn't have attempted if not for the actions of the Drews. Actions which were carried out with full intent to do harm.
If your going to assert that those things the neighbors said about her indirectly
They didn't just say things about her, they made a fake myspace profile in an attempt to gain her trust and learn embarrassing things about her so they could spread them around at school and humiliate her.
resulted in her suicide then you have to look at the millions of other indirect factors that could have led to her suicide as well. She was depressed and some depressed people kill themselves for absolutly no apparent reason at all. Maybe she had a fight with her parents a month ago and just hadnt gotten over it maybe this internet thing was just the straw that broke the camels back so to speak or any of a billion other indirect things that could cause a suicide in a disturbed persons death. And often these are questions that can never really be answered. Calling for these neighbors to be tortured and imprisioned without knowing the answers to these vital questions is simple insanity.

Where have I called for them to be tortured? I want them to be tried to the full extent of the law for what they've done. If what they did is legal then the laws should be reconsidered.

Fuck, I could walk up to IF and shoot him in the face and say "That's life, suck it up champ," and walk away, following his logic.

I disagree. My point was adults asserting themselves in the real world happens every day. No arguement there right? No one ever screams that there should be a law because the bosses girlfriend is a bossy bitch to the employees. This bullying happens in a million similar forms across the country every day. In order to survive in society you must learn to deal with these issues as they are considered a normal part of complex human interaction. Dealing with bullies is a life skill that needs to be learned just like most other life skills. Walking up to someone and shooting them in the face and therefore committing a felony is not normal behavior that happens millions of times a day and is therefore a false analogy.

doublepost

I disagree. My point was adults asserting themselves in the real world happens every day. No arguement there right? No one ever screams that there should be a law because the bosses girlfriend is a bossy bitch to the employees. This bullying happens in a million similar forms across the country every day. In order to survive in society you must learn to deal with these issues as they are considered a normal part of complex human interaction. Dealing with bullies is a life skill that needs to be learned just like most other life skills. Walking up to someone and shooting them in the face and therefore committing a felony is not normal behavior that happens millions of times a day and is therefore a false analogy.

So harrassing someone because they don't want to be friends with your daughter is just adults asserting themselves?

So harrassing someone because they don't want to be friends with your daughter is just adults asserting themselves?

And that it is acceptable to do it in such a vicious way to an child..?

This was posted on the Transformers site I frequent a while ago...

Sick, sick buggers - people like that are a very reasonable argument for the death penalty

Not that I don't agree with you. You do realise though that logic is not the 'default' mode for us human animals don't you?

Yes. But humans need to overcome their defaults. A common default may be to rape, but it must be overcome.

All of those things you said "might" be true, but based on the evidence at hand (Meier receives derogatory and hurtful messages from her former friends' parents posing as a "new boy") and the result (Meier hangs herself), there's no reason to suspect any other conclusion. Granted, the article itself is just one source, but, based on that source anyway, there's no evidence that anything other than the Drews' complete lack of people skills did anything to cause Meier to end her life.

Be careful with the assumption that the Drews caused anything. Let me put it in a different perspective. I know there isnt a thing in the WORLD that someone could put in a MySpace page to make me commit suicide. I suspect this is also true for 99.9999% of the rest of humanity. So to draw a "cause" from an action that has no reasonable expectation of this result is weak at best. The "Cause" here was mental illness not the Drews. The Drews may or may not have been part of a trigger of the disease, but the Drews didnt give the girl depression, and didnt give her a mental illness that has a propensity to commit suicide. In a nutshell, The Drews are assholes but broke no laws.

Yes. But humans need to overcome their defaults. A common default may be to rape, but it must be overcome.


Over come some of their defaults yes.

Be careful with the assumption that the Drews caused anything. Let me put it in a different perspective. I know there isnt a thing in the WORLD that someone could put in a MySpace page to make me commit suicide. I suspect this is also true for 99.9999% of the rest of humanity.

But your suspicions have no real basis. Further, you're wilfully ignoring most of the situation, watering it down to putting something on a MySpace page.

Be careful with the assumption that the Drews caused anything. Let me put it in a different perspective. I know there isnt a thing in the WORLD that someone could put in a MySpace page to make me commit suicide. I suspect this is also true for 99.9999% of the rest of humanity. So to draw a "cause" from an action that has no reasonable expectation of this result is weak at best. The "Cause" here was mental illness not the Drews. The Drews may or may not have been part of a trigger of the disease, but the Drews didnt give the girl depression, and didnt give her a mental illness that has a propensity to commit suicide. In a nutshell, The Drews are assholes but broke no laws.


And as already has been said what about harresment laws. I'm pretty sure that it is also against the law for an adult to pose as a minor over the internet.

I'm pretty sure that it is also against the law for an adult to pose as a minor over the internet.

I doubt this very highly.

So harrassing someone because they don't want to be friends with your daughter is just adults asserting themselves?

Your taking my responce out of context. The proper context was in responce to someone making a statement that all Bullying in all forms should be made illegal and i was discounting that with statements that happened to involve adults.

Your taking my responce out of context. The proper context was in responce to someone making a statement that all Bullying in all forms should be made illegal and i was discounting that with statements that happened to involve adults.

And I'm relating that to the situation at hand by asking if adults harrassing a child can be seen as adults asserting themselves, and thus equivilant(apparently) to one adult bullying another.

Intestinal Fluids, you are very deserving of your screen name.

You wouldn't be involved with Dobson's gang, would you?

Did you tell the families of the tower-fall victims that it was their own damn fault for working there?

Since you seem to follow the path of the scorched heart and built up a body-wide callous that goes down to the bone, I'm sure none of this would touch you in the least. Enjoy your fucked-up life, and I feel sorry for your kids.

:upyours:

Sounds like someone needs an antidepressent. I hope to god you dont have a MySpace page...

But your suspicions have no real basis. Further, you're wilfully ignoring most of the situation, watering it down to putting something on a MySpace page.

Really my suspicions have no real basis? Please cite the legions of dead from MySpace pages gone bad. Ill wait here.

Really my suspicions have no real basis? Please cite the legions of dead from MySpace pages gone bad. Ill wait here.

You suspected that there was nothing in the world that could provoke 99.9999% of people into committing suicide. I don't see how you could possibly have any way of knowing what, if anything, would provoke each of those ~5.9 billion people into committing suicide. And you'd have to know that if you were to know if those various things could be conveyed on a MySpace page.

And I'm relating that to the situation at hand by asking if adults harrassing a child can be seen as adults asserting themselves, and thus equivilant(apparently) to one adult bullying another.

Adults should never ever harass a child. However adults ARE allowed to have an opinion about a child. Harassment is a legal term and the legal definition of harassment does not seem to apply in this situation so therefore is a misnomer.

You suspected that there was nothing in the world that could provoke 99.9999% of people into committing suicide. I don't see how you could possibly have any way of knowing what, if anything, would provoke each of those ~5.9 billion people into committing suicide. And you'd have to know that if you were to know if those various things could be conveyed on a MySpace page.

I enjoy speaking with you but im beginning to suspect your being intentionally obtuse. My statement is that a VAST VAST VAST majority of people dont go running around offing themselves if they read something unflattering about themselves on a Myspace page. Do we really need to argue this point?

Adults should never ever harass a child. However adults ARE allowed to have an opinion about a child. Harassment is a legal term and the legal definition of harassment does not seem to apply in this situation so therefore is a misnomer.
Harassment refers to a wide spectrum of offensive behavior. When the term is used in a legal sense it refers to behaviors that are found threatening or disturbing, and beyond those that are sanctioned by society.
There are a number of harassments that fall into this category.

* Bullying
Harassment that can occur on the playground, school, in the workforce or any other place. Usually physical and psychological harassing behavior perpetrated against an individual, by one or more persons.
* Psychological harassment
This is humiliating or abusive behavior that lowers a person’s self-esteem or causes them torment. This can take the form of verbal comments, actions or gestures. Falling into this category is workplace mobbing. Community Based Harassment - stalking by a group against an individual using repeated distractions that the individual is sensitized to, such as clicking an ink pen. See the following website: http://www.c-a-t-c-h.ca/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrassment


I enjoy speaking with you but im beginning to suspect your being intentionally obtuse. My statement is that a VAST VAST VAST majority of people dont go running around offing themselves if they read something unflattering about themselves on a Myspace page. Do we really need to argue this point?

Except that's not at all what happened in this case and you know it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrassment




Except that's not at all what happened in this case and you know it.

Huh? How is this statement "I know there isnt a thing in the WORLD that someone could put in a MySpace page to make me commit suicide. I suspect this is also true for 99.9999% of the rest of humanity. " and "My statement is that a VAST VAST VAST majority of people dont go running around offing themselves if they read something unflattering about themselves on a Myspace page." NOT virtually synonymous?

Huh? How is this statement "I know there isnt a thing in the WORLD that someone could put in a MySpace page to make me commit suicide. I suspect this is also true for 99.9999% of the rest of humanity. " and "My statement is that a VAST VAST VAST majority of people dont go running around offing themselves if they read something unflattering about themselves on a Myspace page." NOT virtually synonymous?

I never said they're not equivalent, I said that that's not at all what happened in this case and you know it. As in Megan Meier did not just up and kill herself when the Drews said something unflattering about her on MySpace, and you know this.

I never said they're not equivalent, I said that that's not at all what happened in this case and you know it. As in Megan Meier did not just up and kill herself when the Drews said something unflattering about her on MySpace, and you know this.

I dont know this, you dont know this, nobody knows this. Only a dead girl knows this. This is why you cant imprison the Drews.

I dont know this, you dont know this, nobody knows this. Only a dead girl knows this. This is why you cant imprison the Drews.

Megan was destroyed. Especially after one last hateful message from Josh. "You are a bad person and everybody hates you," he said. "The world would be a better place without you."

He got his wish just hours later. Megan Meier hanged herself that night.

Weeks later, her family got the punch line. There never was a Josh. He was a fiction, created by the parents, Curt and Lori Drew, of the girl who had once been Megan's friend.

I guess the Miami Herald just made up those details.

The parents did it. That's fucking despicable. Reading that makes me angry...:mad:

I guess the Miami Herald just made up those details.

Would someone posting "You are a bad person and everyone hates you" or saying "The world would be a better place without you" cause you to commit suicide? Yea me either. I called you obtuse a few posts back. What if you took that to heart and you killed yourself over it. Should i then expect the police at my door with handcuffs? What if in real life your only 14. Am i an even bigger criminal?

Would someone posting "You are a bad person and everyone hates you" or saying "The world would be a better place without you" cause you to commit suicide? Yea me either. I called you obtuse a few posts back. What if you took that to heart and you killed yourself over it. Should i then expect the police at my door with handcuffs?

I guess that depends on whether it was a one off or whether it was a sustained personal attack over a course of time. In other words was it the once flung in anger, or was it harassment.

I guess that depends on whether it was a one off or whether it was a sustained personal attack over a course of time. In other words was it the once flung in anger, or was it harassment.

Ahh i see, i wasnt familiar with the "off the cuff" defence. Could you cite where this arguement has been sucessfully used, like ever? I may need it for my defence. Are you asserting that it isnt harassment if your angry?

Over come some of their defaults yes.

Any of their defaults without a distinct purpose. For instance: we would do well to overcome emotions. Despite what you may believe, anger does not help you in battle. It might help you get through the pain if you're shot (and there are even better ways to do this), but otherwise it's completely unless.

If a default does not have a clear logical purpose then it should be overcome. Everyone should think of the purpose of their actions, especially the government.

Ahh i see, i wasnt familiar with the "off the cuff" defence. Could you cite where this arguement has been sucessfully used, like ever? I may need it for my defence. Are you asserting that it isnt harassment if your angry?

No I am saying that for the majority of people a one off remark effects your psyche less than a sustained personal attack.

To be told you are an idiot is less harmful, than to be told you are an idiot every day by the same person for a year.

And when you factor in that we are talking about children, then not being careful of which words you use, can be very harmful indeed.

Any of their defaults without a distinct purpose. For instance: we would do well to overcome emotions. Despite what you may believe, anger does not help you in battle. It might help you get through the pain if you're shot (and there are even better ways to do this), but otherwise it's completely unless.

If a default does not have a clear logical purpose then it should be overcome. Everyone should think of the purpose of their actions, especially the government.

Bwahahah, nope I totaly disagree with you here. Love is not logical at all(there is a logical reason behind it but he process of it is not logical) should we do away with it?

The instinct of the father to smash the face of the boy who raped his daughter, not logical at all.

No I'm afraid that you are living under a bigger delusion than my God loving self.

I enjoy speaking with you but im beginning to suspect your being intentionally obtuse. My statement is that a VAST VAST VAST majority of people dont go running around offing themselves if they read something unflattering about themselves on a Myspace page. Do we really need to argue this point?

Putting sugar into a healthy person's drink: A nicety.

Putting sugar into a well-known patient of diabetes's drink: Murder.

Insulting someone well-balanced over the Internet: An annoyance.

Insulting someone with issues known by the people doing the insulting up to the point where these people commit suicide: Murder.

That's the difference here.

Bwahahah, nope I totaly disagree with you here. Love is not logical at all(there is a logical reason behind it but he process of it is not logical) should we do away with it?

Partially. But if one can love without impairing their judgment I see little wrong with it. The fact that some people say we shouldn't execute terrorists is a sign of judgment impaired by love.

The instinct of the father to smash the face of the boy who raped his daughter, not logical at all.

Not the instinct itself. But the effect (a detrimental member of society is eliminated) is. However, if the father only beats-up the kid, then I must say it's a bad emotion. Why? Because then we have to pour our resources into healing him. If the government gets the kid, then he should be put to death.

No I'm afraid that you are living under a bigger delusion than my God loving self.

Whoa, pal! Don't drag God into the picture, I'm not an atheist.

Putting sugar into a healthy person's drink: A nicety.

Putting sugar into a well-known patient of diabetes's drink: Murder.

Insulting someone well-balanced over the Internet: An annoyance.

Insulting someone with issues known by the people doing the insulting up to the point where these people commit suicide: Murder.

That's the difference here.

I completly disagree. If i offer an alcoholic a drink, even knowing that hes an alcoholic and knowing he has a disease should i be arrested? After all im taking advantage of a disease right? What if the guy has one drink and then leaves on a bender and eventually drives over someone. What if i didnt even give him a single drink but simply made the offer and implanted the idea and temptation in his head? Am i also guilty of murder? I call BS on your analogy.

I would also like you to list all words and phrases that when written on a public message board are known to make people commit suicide so all citizens can know what words are forbidden to say to a mentally ill person. Ill wait here.

Partially. But if one can love without impairing their judgment I see little wrong with it. The fact that some people say we shouldn't execute terrorists is a sign of judgment impaired by love.

Yet love does impair judgment, all of the time.



Not the instinct itself. But the effect (a detrimental member of society is eliminated) is. However, if the father only beats-up the kid, then I must say it's a bad emotion. Why? Because then we have to pour our resources into healing him. If the government gets the kid, then he should be put to death.

No again I totaly disagree. How can we be other than what it is our nature to be? A queen bee can only be a queen bee, never a worker ant. Might as well ask a tree to be a rock.


Whoa, pal! Don't drag God into the picture, I'm not an atheist.

Heh I never said that you are, I only point out my own delusion to highlight yours.

Why the hell would a kid's PARENTS get this involved, and do something so juvenile and stupid? It's incredibly illogical from a parental standpoint. If your kid has been fighting with someone, and that person cuts off contact, GOOD RIDDANCE! You don't have to listen to your brat bitch and moan about some other kid making him or her mad. Seriously...what..the...fuck?!

Yet love does impair judgment, all of the time.

Under such circumstances it requires suppression.

No again I totaly disagree. How can we be other than what it is our nature to be? A queen bee can only be a queen bee, never a worker ant. Might as well ask a tree to be a rock.


We alter our nature. If our nature were not altered we'd be barbarians and cannibals.

Heh I never said that you are, I only point out my own delusion to highlight yours.

It's delusional to believe a fat man drives a flying sleigh around, and then comes down your chimney to give you presents. It's also delusional to believe the presents just "appear" there.

Be careful with the assumption that the Drews caused anything. Let me put it in a different perspective. I know there isnt a thing in the WORLD that someone could put in a MySpace page to make me commit suicide. I suspect this is also true for 99.9999% of the rest of humanity. So to draw a "cause" from an action that has no reasonable expectation of this result is weak at best. The "Cause" here was mental illness not the Drews. The Drews may or may not have been part of a trigger of the disease, but the Drews didnt give the girl depression, and didnt give her a mental illness that has a propensity to commit suicide.

First of all, that's anecdotal evidence. Since (I presume) I don't know you (or 99.9999% of the world, for that matter), I have nothing but your word to go on with the idea that you wouldn't do the same thing Meagan Meier did. Furthermore, this is a pretty extreme case- Meier had clinical depression (not something everyone in the world has), and, based on the evidence at hand (the Drews creating a fake profile to gain Meier's trust, use it to spread falsehoods about her and say hurtful things to her), the Drews very well *did* trigger the suicide. Regardless, this experience (which is very much uncommon) would likely be very traumatic for anyone to go through- it may not *cause* suicide for everyone but in some cases (like Meier's) it very well could (and I believe the Drews probably knew Meier was off kilter (considering Meier was once their daughter's friend) and looked to exploit it in some way, although maybe not to that extent).

Now, as I said before, you "might" be right in saying what the Drews did cause nothing, because there's a lot we don't know about the case. However, the onus is on you to prove that. Provide evidence that shows that the Drews were not connected in some way to Meier's suicide and I'll believe you.

In a nutshell, The Drews are assholes but broke no laws.

Well, at least we can agree on that- sadly on the last part.

I disagree. My point was adults asserting themselves in the real world happens every day. No arguement there right? No one ever screams that there should be a law because the bosses girlfriend is a bossy bitch to the employees. This bullying happens in a million similar forms across the country every day. In order to survive in society you must learn to deal with these issues as they are considered a normal part of complex human interaction. Dealing with bullies is a life skill that needs to be learned just like most other life skills. Walking up to someone and shooting them in the face and therefore committing a felony is not normal behavior that happens millions of times a day and is therefore a false analogy.

I think you're confusing the kind of bullying that does happen daily (the co-worker who is difficult and intimidating, the bonehead who disregards a lineup and cuts in front of you, the powertripping boss, etc.) with this particular situation, which is extremely rare. We're talking about a concerted effort by one set of individuals to deliberately and consistently harm another human being, who (I presume, given these were the parents of a former friend) knew that the intimidated was weak psychologically. This is NOT a "normal" situation than can simply be "brushed off".

Furthermore, most workplaces, schools, organizations, etc. do have anti-bullying laws and regulations, so, no, it's not something people necessarily "have to live with". That most people probably don't take advantage of those regulations (for whatever reason) is immaterial, because the truth is they are there.

I completly disagree. If i offer an alcoholic a drink, even knowing that hes an alcoholic and knowing he has a disease should i be arrested? After all im taking advantage of a disease right? What if the guy has one drink and then leaves on a bender and eventually drives over someone. What if i didnt even give him a single drink but simply made the offer and implanted the idea and temptation in his head? Am i also guilty of murder? I call BS on your analogy.

Depends. You offer an alcoholic a drink without the intent of doing them harm and they go over the edge, no, it's not (necessarily) wrong. You offer an alcoholic a drink with the direct intention of "forcing" them over the edge then yes, you are indeed wrong. Likewise, if you say a hurtful thing to a mentally ill person without the intent of driving them over the edge (if, say, you're angry because they left the milk out or something like that) and they do go over the edge you didn't do anything wrong. You say something hurtful to a mentally ill person intending on driving them over the edge then, yes, you are indeed wrong. Intent is everything in this case. What compounds the issue is the fact the Drews didn't just stop on a single message- they kept at it, meaning their intentions were pretty clear.