NationStates Jolt Archive

The Hare Krishnas (officially the International Society of Krishna Consciousness or ISKCON) is a Matha (Dharmic religious establishment) of the sect of Gaudiya Vaishnavism of the Hindu denomination of Vaishnavism. They consider themselves "Krishnians" (a parody of "Christians") or "Krishnites" and don't consider themselves "Hindu". Mainstream Hinduism (I.E. every Hindu sect besides ISKCON) consider them a Hindu cult. They probably represent the 2nd most popular "type" Hinduism practiced in the West (2nd to Advaita Vedanta).

I'm interested in other's thoughts on this sect/cult. Those who lived in the 60s know a lot about them and usually have distaste towards them. George Harrison is probably a famous convert to this Hindu sect. Here are where they differ from mainstream Hinduism:

1) They take Hindu mythology as 100% literal fact
2) They believe that Krishna is supreme and all other gods are subordinate
3) They believe that the word of their Guru, A.C. Bhakitvedanta Swami Prabhupada, is infallible (similar to the Catholic's position on the Pope)
4) They worship Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, a medieval Bengali Hindu saint
5) They chant "Hare Krishna" (sometimes it's really, REALLY annoying)
6) They believe that sex (premarital and non-procreative sex), drugs, alcohol, meat, fish, eggs, and poultry are sinful indulgences and block one's path to "Krishna Consciousness" (some reject tofu and soy)
7) They believe in a God similar to the Abrahamic God (I.E. created everything, adores and demands worship, we live to worship him, etc.)
8) They believe that Krishna has 25 avatara and not 10
9) They claim that all other denominations/sects of Hinduism (such as Shiva's sect, Tripura Sundari's sect, etc.) are all "materialistic" and "misguided" and that only their sect (the sect of Krishna) will lead one to salvation
10) They reject the Vedas (even if they claim not to)

Something about these guys just screams "CULT, CULT, CULT!!!!!111ONE" to me. But, I want to know your opinions. After comparing them to mainstream Hinduism (which they sometimes claim to be a part of) and after observing some of their practices and beliefs, what are your thoughts: Cult or Not?

The Hare Krishnas (officially the International Society of Krishna Consciousness or ISKCON) is a Matha (Dharmic religious establishment) of the sect of Gaudiya Vaishnavism of the Hindu denomination of Vaishnavism. They consider themselves "Krishnians" (a parody of "Christians") or "Krishnites" and don't consider themselves "Hindu". Mainstream Hinduism (I.E. every Hindu sect besides ISKCON) consider them a Hindu cult. They probably represent the 2nd most popular "type" Hinduism practiced in the West (2nd to Advaita Vedanta).

I'm interested in other's thoughts on this sect/cult. Those who lived in the 60s know a lot about them and usually have distaste towards them. George Harrison is probably a famous convert to this Hindu sect. Here are where they differ from mainstream Hinduism:

1) They take Hindu mythology as 100% literal fact
2) They believe that Krishna is supreme and all other gods are subordinate
3) They believe that the word of their Guru, A.C. Bhakitvedanta Swami Prabhupada, is infallible (similar to the Catholic's position on the Pope)
4) They worship Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, a medieval Bengali Hindu saint
5) They chant "Hare Krishna" (sometimes it's really, REALLY annoying)
6) They believe that sex (premarital and non-procreative sex), drugs, alcohol, meat, fish, eggs, and poultry are sinful indulgences and block one's path to "Krishna Consciousness" (some reject tofu and soy)
7) They believe in a God similar to the Abrahamic God (I.E. created everything, adores and demands worship, we live to worship him, etc.)
8) They believe that Krishna has 25 avatara and not 10
9) They claim that all other denominations/sects of Hinduism (such as Shiva's sect, Tripura Sundari's sect, etc.) are all "materialistic" and "misguided" and that only their sect (the sect of Krishna) will lead one to salvation
10) They reject the Vedas (even if they claim not to)

Something about these guys just screams "CULT, CULT, CULT!!!!!111ONE" to me. But, I want to know your opinions. After comparing them to mainstream Hinduism (which they sometimes claim to be a part of) and after observing some of their practices and beliefs, what are your thoughts: Cult or Not?

Cult

Egh, they don't do any harm. The Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's lot are worse.

But OBE meditation is awesome.

Egh, they don't do any harm. The Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's lot are worse.

But OBE meditation is awesome.

Cult does not automatically = harmful

Cult. And the members I have met so far have all lacked education and general understanding/perception. So it's a dumb-people cult.

they seem like every other religious sect ever. And every other cult, for that matter.

Strange how those two overlap to the point of being indistinguisable...actually, the only real difference is the weight we give to the word...the definitions are almost identical.

they seem like every other religious sect ever. And every other cult, for that matter.

Strange how those two overlap to the point of being indistinguisable...actually, the only real difference is the weight we give to the word...the definitions are almost identical.

I separate the "categories" mentally.

Cults believe that "My Path is the Only True Path" and they force initiates to change their lifestyles

Sects believe that "My God's Penis is Bigger than Your's" and they encourage worship to their God alone

Denominations/Sampradayas (as Hindus call them) believe that "My Path is different than your's, but your path is OK too" and they encourage worship to their God alone but will accept worship of the same God

So the Judeo-Christo-Islamic tradition is a cult and sect?

Yuppers

I separate the "categories" mentally.

Cults believe that "My Path is the Only True Path" and they force initiates to change their lifestyles

Sects believe that "My God's Penis is Bigger than Your's" and they encourage worship to their God alone

Denominations/Sampradayas (as Hindus call them) believe that "My Path is different than your's, but your path is OK too" and they encourage worship to their God alone but will accept worship of the same God
So the Judeo-Christo-Islamic tradition is a cult and sect? Interesting.

So the Judeo-Christo-Islamic tradition is a cult and sect? Interesting.

Yes.

Now excuse me while I go call the Firefighters.

Now excuse me while I go call the Firefighters.

Bring a lot of them

I got the marshmallows, chocolate and graham crackers...

Did you bring enough for everyone?

My only experience of Hare Krishnas was when I was in London one time and a young, bald guy in a robe came up to me and the people I was with and said in a very casual and relaxed "Hi, I'm from the Hare Krishnas and we're trying to save the world. Will you give us money?", then boinged my friend's balloon.

I also have a friend who apparently has a distant cousin who joined them a while back and is now on the USA's Most Wanted list. Although that could easily just be not true, and I have no knowledge of the circumstances, so it doesn't count for anything, really.

Therefore I don't know enough to form an opinion of whether or not they're a cult, but the impression I have based on what I do know (everything I mentioned above, so not much) can only be described as "weird".

My personal definition of "cult" (no idea how well it matches up with the definitions of others') is that a cult is a group where certain beliefs are held which are generally designed to benefit the leaders of said cult - financially, or by giving them power or maybe even just an ego boost - often at the expense of members and those outside of the cult. Like Scientology. The way I see the term "sect" is that it can refer to any group of people who share a set of beliefs, so it can include both religions and cults.

Did you bring enough for everyone?

I hope so..*squints at Sarkhaan* We have a rule here that you can't eat anything unless you brought enough for everyone.

Bring a lot of them

I got the marshmallows, chocolate and graham crackers...

So the Judeo-Christo-Islamic tradition is a cult and sect?
Technically, they're a conglomerate of cults and sects, but the reasoning generally holds. There are, however, movements within all three oriented more around mysticism than doctrine (less so in Protestantism) for which this might not necessary be the case, though these movements are often renounced as being too far from the mainstream to be considered part of the Religion.

1) They take Hindu mythology as 100% literal fact...the ones I've talked to do not. I've read ISKCON discussions of the life of Sri Krishna as metaphor for spiritual truths, like each place he visited in the myths being a different loka/stage of spiritual development. I don't see what the problem with taking it literally is anyway, if it motivates them to be ascetics and artists and to provide the homeless free vegetarian food in new york city and not go out killing people it's not a very big deal...2) They believe that Krishna is supreme and all other gods are subordinatethey do? I've talked to several, both of whom were completely fine with my religious preferences (Advaita but in a modern context, I learn towards syncretizing all religions not just the various bhakti movements) - one had lived in a ISKCON temple for years and came out and practiced voudou (which is similar to shakta hinduism in nearly every respect - they're practically identical theologically) and his friends in ISKCON were fine with it and he still had very fond memories of his time in the temple. to my knowledge they only say that Vishnu is accurately identified with Ishvara and believe that all other deities are manifestations of this godhead which are misunderstood through the influence of maya...which is more or less the mainstream position of all Vaishnavas...3) They believe that the word of their Guru, A.C. Bhakitvedanta Swami Prabhupada, is infallible (similar to the Catholic's position on the Pope)this does kind of weird me out - but not any more than the Ismaili Muslims following the Aga Khan or the Mormons following Gordan Hinkley...5) They chant "Hare Krishna" (sometimes it's really, REALLY annoying)and sometimes it's quite lovely. *shrug*6) They believe that sex (premarital and non-procreative sex), drugs, alcohol, meat, fish, eggs, and poultry are sinful indulgences and block one's path to "Krishna Consciousness" (some reject tofu and soy)I agree with them on the drugs, alcohol, meat, fish, and poultry.7) They believe in a God similar to the Abrahamic God (I.E. created everything, adores and demands worship, we live to worship him, etc.)yeah I've noticed that Vaishnavas in general tend to be a bit weird by Hindu standards...that is, a bit abrahamic and evangelical seeming...8) They believe that Krishna has 25 avatara and not 10I'm not seeing this as a major problem.9) They claim that all other denominations/sects of Hinduism (such as Shiva's sect, Tripura Sundari's sect, etc.) are all "materialistic" and "misguided" and that only their sect (the sect of Krishna) will lead one to salvationthat's not particularly unique or frightening.10) They reject the Vedas (even if they claim not to)so do the Lingayats...I'm not sure this is a big deal.

they are vaguely cultish, but they aren't as worrisome to me as the SwamiNarayan folks or the Sathya Sai Babas...the hare krishnas are harmless, whereas the Swaminarayan sect still has absolute devotion to their guru as well as billions of dollars and huge mandirs around the world...

....
they are vaguely cultish, but they aren't as worrisome to me as the SwamiNarayan folks or the Sathya Sai Babas...the hare krishnas are harmless, whereas the Swaminarayan sect still has absolute devotion to their guru as well as billions of dollars and huge mandirs around the world...

Good points.

The Swaminarayans remind me of that troublesome period in my life. I practiced their religion for 3 days until I read "Swaminarayan is Supreme". Then I pulled the plug while eating some beef (which is odd for a Hindu, hm?).

Good points.

The Swaminarayans remind me of that troublesome period in my life. I practiced their religion for 3 days until I read "Swaminarayan is Supreme". Then I pulled the plug while eating some beef (which is odd for a Hindu, hm?).yeah, it's kind of depressing...the Saithya Sai Baba center and the BAPS temple are the only two Hindu houses of worship in my city...I'm creeped out by BAPS but at the same time I have to admit they're really really good at organizing things. as much as I'd like a non-sectarian temple or a Saiva Siddhanta Church branch or something like that BAPS is probably the only Hindu group that's going to be in my vicinity for decades at the very least.

yeah, it's kind of depressing...the Saithya Sai Baba center and the BAPS temple are the only two Hindu houses of worship in my city...I'm creeped out by BAPS but at the same time I have to admit they're really really good at organizing things. as much as I'd like a non-sectarian temple or a Saiva Siddhanta Church branch or something like that BAPS is probably the only Hindu group that's going to be in my vicinity for decades at the very least.

Smarthas and BAPS are in my vicinity. I am a Jamaican convert to Hinduism. I'm not touching that Smartha temple with a 10 foot pole.

Did you bring enough for everyone?

I hope so..*squints at Sarkhaan* We have a rule here that you can't eat anything unless you brought enough for everyone.
of course! now...did anyone bring drinks?

*starts pelting people with marshmallows*

Im sorry but that is not entirely true. The Catholic Church doesn't always think the Pope is infallible. He is only infallible when speaking on church matters or when he sits on the seat of St. Peter.

Similar to Hare Krishna belief (Prabhupada is never wrong when speaking about religious matters). I should've been more specific.

Prabhupada, is infallible (similar to the Catholic's position on the Pope)

Im sorry but that is not entirely true. The Catholic Church doesn't always think the Pope is infallible. He is only infallible when speaking on church matters or when he sits on the seat of St. Peter.

Im sorry but that is not entirely true. The Catholic Church doesn't always think the Pope is infallible. He is only infallible when speaking on church matters or when he sits on the seat of St. Peter.well, on matters pertaining explicitly to salvation* but yeah, in general catholic infallibility creeps me out significantly less than guru-worship...which is odd, since the catholics have been vastly more brutal and done a great many more horrendous and disgusting things in the name of their religion than Hindus ever have. maybe I should be less creeped out by the guru thing...

of course! now...did anyone bring drinks?

*starts pelting people with marshmallows*

I brought the Kool-Aid. ;)
*catches marshmallows*

of course! now...did anyone bring drinks?

*starts pelting people with marshmallows*
I brought the Kool-Aid.


I've got the keg :D

Smarthas and BAPS are in my vicinity. I am a Jamaican convert to Hinduism. I'm not touching that Smartha temple with a 10 foot pole.yeah, I'm white. some tamil brahmins wouldn't even let me step on their yard because I was ritually unclean (their daughter had told them I was gay...I suspect their mom thought I wanted to date her or something, I'm not sure which would be worse) - haha I'm actually significantly more interested in Santeria/Shango/Candomble/Voudou/21 Divisions/I forgot what the Jamaican equivalent is - but I'm also a vegetarian and interested in India, so I tend to lean towards Shakta Hinduism and the Tantric traditions in general. the goddess-oriented sects of Hinduism tend to have medianic possession just like the Afro-Caribbean religions do.

There are, however, movements within all three oriented more around mysticism than doctrine (less so in Protestantism)

In all fairness, it's only the American protestants that are more about doctrine. European protestants aren't that much into religion at all, which leads to it being more about mysticism and symbolism.

The Hare Krishnas (officially the International Society of Krishna Consciousness or ISKCON) is a Matha (Dharmic religious establishment) of the sect of Gaudiya Vaishnavism of the Hindu denomination of Vaishnavism. They consider themselves "Krishnians" (a parody of "Christians") or "Krishnites" and don't consider themselves "Hindu". Mainstream Hinduism (I.E. every Hindu sect besides ISKCON) consider them a Hindu cult. They probably represent the 2nd most popular "type" Hinduism practiced in the West (2nd to Advaita Vedanta).

I'm interested in other's thoughts on this sect/cult. Those who lived in the 60s know a lot about them and usually have distaste towards them. George Harrison is probably a famous convert to this Hindu sect. Here are where they differ from mainstream Hinduism:

1) They take Hindu mythology as 100% literal fact
2) They believe that Krishna is supreme and all other gods are subordinate
3) They believe that the word of their Guru, A.C. Bhakitvedanta Swami Prabhupada, is infallible (similar to the Catholic's position on the Pope)
4) They worship Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, a medieval Bengali Hindu saint
5) They chant "Hare Krishna" (sometimes it's really, REALLY annoying)
6) They believe that sex (premarital and non-procreative sex), drugs, alcohol, meat, fish, eggs, and poultry are sinful indulgences and block one's path to "Krishna Consciousness" (some reject tofu and soy)
7) They believe in a God similar to the Abrahamic God (I.E. created everything, adores and demands worship, we live to worship him, etc.)
8) They believe that Krishna has 25 avatara and not 10
9) They claim that all other denominations/sects of Hinduism (such as Shiva's sect, Tripura Sundari's sect, etc.) are all "materialistic" and "misguided" and that only their sect (the sect of Krishna) will lead one to salvation
10) They reject the Vedas (even if they claim not to)

Something about these guys just screams "CULT, CULT, CULT!!!!!111ONE" to me. But, I want to know your opinions. After comparing them to mainstream Hinduism (which they sometimes claim to be a part of) and after observing some of their practices and beliefs, what are your thoughts: Cult or Not?



1) In Baptist church the Bible is 100% literal fact

2) Baptists beleive that they are the superior and one true religion and that their interpretation is the only true one and that all others are insubordinate

3) Baptists(or at least the ones I've observed/talked to/got basterded/bitched out by) beleive in infallible obedience

6)Baptists beleive that (premarital and non-procreative sex), drugs, alcohol are sinful indulgences that codemn one to hell

7) Its a given that Baptists share that beleif

9) The Baptist church claims that all other Christian denominations are false, strayed away from God, are wrong and misguided.

The Baptist church of Hinduism. :p

I brought the Kool-Aid. ;)

I fell off my chair laughing. You bastard. :p

I fell off my chair laughing. You bastard. :p

Buahaha. I'm glad someone got that. :)

Religions are just large cults.

Religions are just large cults.by that definition Hinduism is not a religion.

Thought of replying to the OP and then saw the excellent replies from Vegan Nuts.

Some members of my family are initiated devotees. I visit the temple sometimes...but not a member or even a staunch believer/devotee (due to the agnostic and advaita thinking I am having currently). I go for the excellent food and the relatively better atmosphere than most other hindu temples.

The proclamation of a prescribed "correct path" by ISKCON can put off many hindus brought up in the "all paths are ok..don't judge other ways of worship" type of thinking. I myself was put off by that in the beginning but I think ISKCON serves an important gap in the spectrum of hindu philosophies. So I am quite sympathetic to them in certain things they do...even though I will probably never become a devotee in that matha.

If we take the "all religions are cult" then yeah they are a cult...but IMHO they are not a cult. They are increasing of late in the west with the influx of recent Indian immigrants and in India too.

Thought of replying to the OP and then saw the excellent replies from Vegan Nuts.

Some members of my family are initiated devotees. I visit the temple sometimes...but not a member or even a staunch believer/devotee (due to the agnostic and advaita thinking I am having currently). I go for the excellent food and the relatively better atmosphere than most other hindu temples.

The proclamation of a prescribed "correct path" by ISKCON can put off many hindus brought up in the "all paths are ok..don't judge other ways of worship" type of thinking. I myself was put off by that in the beginning but I think ISKCON serves an important gap in the spectrum of hindu philosophies. So I am quite sympathetic to them in certain things they do...even though I will probably never become a devotee in that matha.

If we take the "all religions are cult" then yeah they are a cult...but IMHO they are not a cult. They are increasing of late in the west with the influx of recent Indian immigrants and in India too.

I don't know. I just can't accept the fact that my path (Shakta Dharma) is deemed "tamaasik" and is ridiculed by them.

I don't know. I just can't accept the fact that my path (Shakta Dharma) is deemed "tamaasik" and is ridiculed by them.

lol...tell me about it..

From their POV, if something is tamasik then they should not feel shy in saying so. They are taking a stand in defining things as they see it. You (and I) don't have to agree with their stand. But to say that it is wrong for them to make that stand is...well...wrong.

You are quite free to ridicule their philosophy of Bakthi Yoga too. ;)

One time my buddy Dave's dad, Niel, had his car break down in BFE somewhere in Michigan in the middle of the night. This was probably around 1980 or so. A van full of Krishnas rolled up and asked if he needed a lift. So Niel hopped in the van, town after town rolled by and it became apparent the Krishnas weren't planning on stopping until they were good and ready. I guess they explained that Niel was to be taken to a place of sanctuary where he could get the help he needed.

The story went that Niel played it cool like he didn't mind the change of plan, and when they finally stopped at a gas station or rest stop or something he lit out. He was someplace in Ohio by the time he finally got away though.

Niel isn't really the "storytelling" type of guy so I always took it to be true. But he is kind of a closet homo so it may have been his spin on a case of cruising gone wrong.

But when I was a kid, whenever the subject would come up my mom would always tell me to watch myself around the "Hares", but she never really elaborated why.

1) In Baptist church the Bible is 100% literal fact

2) Baptists beleive that they are the superior and one true religion and that their interpretation is the only true one and that all others are insubordinate

3) Baptists(or at least the ones I've observed/talked to/got basterded/bitched out by) beleive in infallible obedience

6)Baptists beleive that (premarital and non-procreative sex), drugs, alcohol are sinful indulgences that codemn one to hell

7) Its a given that Baptists share that beleif

9) The Baptist church claims that all other Christian denominations are false, strayed away from God, are wrong and misguided.

The Baptist church of Hinduism. :p

Hmm so I guess every religion has their "Baptist".

Can we send them to another planet so they'll leave the rest of us alone?

I heard Mercury is nice this time of year.

But when I was a kid, whenever the subject would come up my mom would always tell me to watch myself around the "Hares", but she never really elaborated why.

They had a child sex abuse issue in some of their "gurukuls" (children boarding schools) many years back (early 80s?).

I guess celibacy can be prone to such abuses, regardless of the religion.

So I am quite sympathetic to them in certain things they do...even though I will probably never become a devotee in that matha.ditto. is your family Indian? I was under the impression that most ISKCON folks were actually white desiphiles and not actual Desis...One time my buddy Dave's dad, Niel, had his car break down in BFE somewhere in Michigan in the middle of the night. This was probably around 1980 or so. A van full of Krishnas rolled up and asked if he needed a lift. So Niel hopped in the van, town after town rolled by and it became apparent the Krishnas weren't planning on stopping until they were good and ready. I guess they explained that Niel was to be taken to a place of sanctuary where he could get the help he needed.

The story went that Niel played it cool like he didn't mind the change of plan, and when they finally stopped at a gas station or rest stop or something he lit out. He was someplace in Ohio by the time he finally got away though.

Niel isn't really the "storytelling" type of guy so I always took it to be true. But he is kind of a closet homo so it may have been his spin on a case of cruising gone wrong.

But when I was a kid, whenever the subject would come up my mom would always tell me to watch myself around the "Hares", but she never really elaborated why.weird. people love to hate religious minorities, and they'd probably believe anything about them, so I'd take this story with a grain of salt...but I won't say it's not possible. heh, my parents told me stories about a relative who got brainwashed by the Moonies into selling flowers on street corners (doesn't really sound unpleasant, to be honest), then again, my parents work for an evangelical christian organization and will admit some of their friends told them it was a cult...(they live off of donations, come to think of it - the Moonies may not be all that different...they just don't have a corporate HQ for their "ministry")

Hmm so I guess every religion has their "Baptist".

Can we send them to another planet so they'll leave the rest of us alone?

I heard Mercury is nice this time of year.

EXCELLENT *builds space rocket*

every belief is a cult in the eyes of fanatics of any other.

christianity is a cult! (one that is only redeamed by revered billy and the church of don't go shopping)

=^^=
.../\...

Has anybody yet asked how easy it is to leave them? I guess if they make it almost impossible to leave then, yep cult, if not then nope not cult.

Has anybody yet asked how easy it is to leave them? I guess if they make it almost impossible to leave then, yep cult, if not then nope not cult.

another acid test to apply to mainstream belief systems.

yes, people do leave them occasionally, but not, for most of them, easily.

=^^=
.../\...

ditto. is your family Indian? I was under the impression that most ISKCON folks were actually white desiphiles and not actual Desis...weird.

Yes, I am an actual desi. ISKCON used to be full of whites because when their founder acharya Prabhupada started the org in New York, he attracted a lot of the white suburban disillusioned crowd (hippies?)

Of late, the ranks are filled with recent immigrant desis who outnumber whites in congregations in places where I have visited (7 or 8 temples across the country). But the priest types are mostly whites and it sometimes feels funny seeing a white foreigner* explain Bhagvad Gita in Sanskrit to desis from India who have no clue on those things. :D

* I am not saying they shouldn't...I am no racist...but it is sometimes a funny picture especially when contrasted with the "foreigners are mlecha/out castes" thinking in India.


Has anybody yet asked how easy it is to leave them? I guess if they make it almost impossible to leave then, yep cult, if not then nope not cult.

I guess you can just stop going to the temple if you want to. I have seen ex-ISKCON initiated devotees who have now left the order. I myself have never felt pressured to join, despite a few of my family being initiated devotees in that order.

I guess you can just stop going to the temple if you want to. I have seen ex-ISKCON initiated devotees who have now left the order. I myself have never felt pressured to join, despite a few of my family being initiated devotees in that order.


Sooo harmless nutters then?

But I don't like some of his thinking - he wanted India to be a theocracy run by Sanjay Gandhi (Indira's son) with him as adviser...his ideas on sexual morality and his arguments against evolution etc.

Heh and just to stir the pot a little, isn't India a theocracy anyway? I refer of course to laws surrounding class(caste in disguise).;)

Sooo harmless nutters then?

I guess so. I like the food, their advocation of vegetarianism, the basic philosophy of Bakthi Yoga, some books (especially "Bhagvad Gita as it is") etc etc. You have to admire the man Prabhupada for what he achieved. He came to the US in 1965 at the age of 68 or 69. He was frail and suffered two heart attacks on the way. He was literally penniless and without any support structure and was thrown out of his residence into the streets once. In a decade before his death in 1977 he started ISKCON, wrote about 60 books, traveled around the world fourteen times on lecture tours that took him to six continents and ISKCON grew to more than 100 institutions in that time.

But I don't like some of his thinking - he wanted India to be a theocracy run by Sanjay Gandhi (Indira's son) with him as adviser...his ideas on sexual morality and his arguments against evolution etc.

* I am not saying they shouldn't...I am no racist...but it is sometimes a funny picture especially when contrasted with the "foreigners are mlecha/out castes" thinking in India.*snort* this will be me in 10 years. I'm thinking I will most likely look up ISKCON when I move back to NYC, though largely to learn from them and not necessarily become a member of the order. (I'll be more actively looking to join a Candomble house...which, as far as I'm concerned, is just another Shakta Samprayada)I guess so. I like the food, their advocation of vegetarianism, the basic philosophy of Bakthi Yoga, some books (especially "Bhagvad Gita as it is") etc etc. You have to admire the man Prabhupada for what he achieved. He came to the US in 1965 at the age of 68 or 69. He was frail and suffered two heart attacks on the way. He was literally penniless and without any support structure and was thrown out of his residence into the streets once. In a decade before his death in 1977 he started ISKCON, wrote about 60 books, traveled around the world fourteen times on lecture tours that took him to six continents and ISKCON grew to more than 100 institutions in that time.

But I don't like some of his thinking - he wanted India to be a theocracy run by Sanjay Gandhi (Indira's son) with him as adviser...his ideas on sexual morality and his arguments against evolution etc.it really is rather impressive, and while I know there's a debate between the liberal and conservative children of immigrants (who I have most experience with, I need to learn Hindi) over whether vegetarianism should be compulsory, I was veg long before I was interested in Hinduism so I really do think that's a strong point in its favour - I actually lean Jain with the (sometimes) veganism. the one thing that gets me is their ideas on sex...I guess it's fairly standard, but as a gay guy it's kind of annoying, particularly when in the scriptures themselves you have Krishna turning the cross-dressing Arjun into a woman so they can do it...Ardhanarishvara ftw!

^ the underlying philosophy of Bakthi Yoga and the exposition of it in various ISKCON literature make for compelling reading. They do have a very eloquent theology. Not just Prabhupada, but the earlier gurus (Bhaktivinoda Thakura etc), were also prolific writers. Prabhupada's Bhagvad Gita as it is, is the best book on the Gita - despite his obvious leanings towards Vaishnavism.

But my distaste for organized religion will prevent me from signing up for any organized religion, however eloquent the underlying theology may be.

hare krishna used to be THE cult that american parents worried their children would fall into. they solicited money/sold flowers at every airport.

since getting run out of the airports they kinda dropped out of the common consciousness. where do you see them these days? are they having their followers beg for money still?

hare krishna used to be THE cult that american parents worried their children would fall into. they solicited money/sold flowers at every airport.

since getting run out of the airports they kinda dropped out of the common consciousness. where do you see them these days? are they having their followers beg for money still?only thing I've heard of them doing is feeding the homeless in brooklyn. never seen any of them though, actually...

since getting run out of the airports they kinda dropped out of the common consciousness. where do you see them these days? are they having their followers beg for money still?

No, they're too busy selling Bhagavad Gita-s for an outrageous price of $29.95.

In a world where I can order a free Bible and a free Qur'an, $30 books on philosophy that were written for the poor is inexcusable.

I got mine for free at Dallas temple. In Seattle, they only take donations and not a fixed price for books. I dunno about other places....but obviously you cannot generalize. ;)

The official Bhaktivedanta book fund sells the books.

Maybe I should clarify my position. The organization's "government" is the problem, not the members themselves.

No, they're too busy selling Bhagavad Gita-s for an outrageous price of $29.95.

In a world where I can order a free Bible and a free Qur'an, $30 books on philosophy that were written for the poor is inexcusable.

I got mine for free at Dallas temple. In Seattle, they only take donations and not a fixed price for books. I dunno about other places....but obviously you cannot generalize. ;)

hare krishna used to be THE cult that american parents worried their children would fall into. they solicited money/sold flowers at every airport.

since getting run out of the airports they kinda dropped out of the common consciousness. where do you see them these days? are they having their followers beg for money still?

they hang out around the park we used to attend, meditating or something, also they seem to be around the mall during Christmas shopping. (same 5 or 6 of them though, every time)

we have a ton of Moonies here though, they are annoying......."we love you!" bleh.

I remember when I was in Washington DC and this guy was taking donations and for every dollar or so that you give, they would give you one of their prayer books or a necklace. So my friend, through the belief that he was helping the poor (like the guy said), gave some money and chose the prayer book. So while we were in one of the museums, he opens it to take a look at it and he sees that its Hare Krishna, so he goes crazy and goes outside and asks the guy questions on if it is a cult or not, but the guy completely denied it. Of course when my friend asked if he could leave anytime he wanted to, he completely dodged the question.

They sound like the Hindu version of Evangelical Christians.

By definition Hare Krishna is a cult, however the word cult is complicated to define and usually the definition overlaps with the word sect, generally a cult is an offshoot of an imported religion, whereas a sect comes from an established religion in the area it appeared if a sect goes abroad in the country it travels to it will become a cult, however cults can have elements of foreign and native religions, then to further complicate things cults/sects(and major religions) are usually split into world affirming, world accommodating and world rejecting cult/sects/churches/denominations, Hare Krishna would be an example of a World Rejecting cult that believes the values of modern/post-modern society are wrong, the Church of England is an example of a World Accommodating church, that believes that modern/post-modern values are wrong but will be tolerated, a world affirming cult would be something like scientology, that seeks to teach that this world is how it should be and that people should strive for material gain. So, officially it is in the west regarded as a cult in the east a sect, or maybe a denomination I'm not too sure, but generally cult/sects will be relatively small and have or will have had a charismatic leader at its head, which I believe Hare Krishna did have at one point.

Oh and cult doesn't always equate to dangerous, hare kirshna is far from dangerous I often donate money, I'm an athiest but I also know that they give food to homeless people in Manchester. The People's Temple would be an example of a past dangerous cult and scientology would be an example of a present dangerous cult.