NationStates Jolt Archive

71-50 with 35.7% counted! 5 more seats and Labor has won government. Labor also looks set to take Bennelong, unseating the Prime Minister in his own seat.

Sit back and watch.

As the Right Honourable Prime Minister John Howard said "when the government changes, the country changes"

We're ready for change, Mr Howard.

I'd give it an hour or so before calling it proper, but so far it looks good for a labor win.

It sure is looking that way, the real question is by how much.

79-55, with 51.5% of the votes in. 76 seats are required for victory.

LABOR HAS WON THE ELECTION!

Yep looks like the poor buggers will take it. Gotta feel sorry for them. Only be in for a single term.

Congrats, Australia. :)

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200711/r205839_783780.jpg

Woot!

Nevermind the suckers of my own seat, Ryan, who managed to still retain the Liberal candidate. And nevermind the weird new sensation of not actually being against the government...for a while at least. The beauty of being a libertarian is that you're always against the establishment - the bad thing is that the establishment is always against you. ;)

But that's for another day...now, where's that dancing smiley?

EDIT: ABC just said nationwide stands at 54 vs 46 percent, with 81 seats to Labor, 55 to the Coalition and only 12 still in doubt.

It's over.

I'm glad to see Howard gone and a more anti-climate change party coming to power. The whole "Man of Steel" rhetoric was getting annoying.

Queensland has done really well for Labor, but at the monent WA is where the Libs are performing strongly.

http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2007/results/stateindex.htm

==========

Curiously though, it looks like the Senate might actually be retained by the Coalition. I suppose that's not a bad thing though.

http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2007/results/senate/

==========

And what's up with that mob in the background at the ABC? Is it actually the Chaser guys behind it?

But that's for another day...now, where's that dancing smiley?

I don't know, but there is always this
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/4273/howardspasmwmvih3.gif

Woot!

Nevermind the suckers of my own seat, Ryan, who managed to still retain the Liberal candidate. And nevermind the weird new sensation of not actually being against the government...for a while at least. The beauty of being a libertarian is that you're always against the establishment - the bad thing is that the establishment is always against you. ;)

But that's for another day...now, where's that dancing smiley?

EDIT: ABC just said nationwide stands at 54 vs 46 percent, with 81 seats to Labor, 55 to the Coalition and only 12 still in doubt.

It's over.
You're from Ryan? I'm in Brisbane now, but I went to highschool at Springwood High!

When I was younger, I was a pentecostal christian, and I can tell you Ryan is held by the Liberals because mega-churchs like Dunamis Christian Centre, Liberty Christian Church and so on, literally parade Liberal candidates on stage and threaten that God will punish Labor voters. Each one of those churchs has at least 3,000 members, the majority of which is active.

ROFLMAO, Turnbull's from a rich-people seat and talks about how egalitarian the place is. That was a preparation for a leadership challenge if there ever was one.

Queensland has done really well for Labor, but at the monent WA is where the Libs are performing strongly.

http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2007/results/stateindex.htm

==========

Curiously though, it looks like the Senate might actually be retained by the Coalition. I suppose that's not a bad thing though.

http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2007/results/senate/

==========

And what's up with that mob in the background at the ABC? Is it actually the Chaser guys behind it?
We knew we'd lose the west, the economic boom makes change very scary.

And the Senate is unforunately something we have to accept, trying to undo eleven years of coalition gains in the Senate is difficult, to say the least. If a whole Senate election were called (for non-aussies, this only happens if the Senate blocks the Bill of Supply, the Prime Minister retains the confidence of the House, and the governor-general agrees) Labor would probably take it.

They keep blaming The Chaser, but its mostly commercial tv channels who have placed crowd warmers

Yay! http://209.85.12.231/11055/49/emo/dance_male.gif

Congratulations Australia http://209.85.12.231/11055/49/emo/king.gif

Wish y'all the best! Have fun at the barbie, mates!

The news article about Liberal Party supporters caught planting fake 3b1l m05l3m leaflets trying to libel Labor as a collection of dhimmis is just a delicious nail in the coffin of John Howard and his AussieBushevik ways.

Howard's conceded.

He's talking about what a privilege it was, and what a great government he led and that Australia is the "greatest country on earth". Very 20th century of him.

EDIT: Lol, he's being heckled by his own Young Liberals, obviously drunk.

I liked his speech, and the shouting and whistling drunkards were hilarious.

Oh, BBC, do you ever fail to entertain?

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=2&forumID=3858&edition=1&ttl=20071124130330&#paginator

Oh, BBC, do you ever fail to entertain?

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=2&forumID=3858&edition=1&ttl=20071124130330&#paginator
Lawl. English people just don't understand that New Labour isn't actually a labour party.

Congrats to the Ozzies!

I liked his speech, and the shouting and whistling drunkards were hilarious.

Lol, I think half his speech consisted of "Please, Please" trying to get the crowd to shut up.

Congrats to Rudd

Oh, BBC, do you ever fail to entertain?

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=2&forumID=3858&edition=1&ttl=20071124130330&#paginator
:p
Best news from Australia for donkey's years. Let Rudd pull Aussie troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan and set the proper example for Cameron's incoming UK Government and Clinton's incoming US Administration !

Gerard Mulholland, Paris, France

huh

from what i recall Rudd said we sending more troops to Afghanistan and lest to Iraq

from what i recall Rudd said we sending more troops to Afghanistan and lest to Iraq

Indeed he did.

People who comment on the BBC's website (or any website, really) often tend to be ill-informed and not particularly bright. As demonstrated by the number of posters on the BBC page predicting gloom and devastation now that Australia has a Laboir (pardon, Labor) leader.

People who comment on the BBC's website (or any website, really)
Well, NSG is kind of a website, is it not?:p

often tend to be ill-informed and not particularly bright. As demonstrated by the number of posters on the BBC page predicting gloom and devastation now that Australia has a Laboir (pardon, Labor) leader.
Not just a Labor leader, but an Evil Socialist!! leader that supports "multiculurism."

Indeed he did.

People who comment on the BBC's website (or any website, really) often tend to be ill-informed and not particularly bright. As demonstrated by the number of posters on the BBC page predicting gloom and devastation now that Australia has a Laboir (pardon, Labor) leader.

i would like to see what they would have say if they knew that and that we just lose a third soldier in Afghanistan

Not just a Labor leader, but an Evil Socialist!! leader that supports “multiculurism.”
Dun dun duuuuuuuuuuuun!

Luckily, we’ve got Brian Phillips (http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/profile.jspa?userID=7403486&edition=1&ttl=20071124140333) to warn us of impending doom.

Luckily, we’ve got Brian Phillips (http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/profile.jspa?userID=7403486&edition=1&ttl=20071124140333) to warn us of impending doom.

So Kevin Rudd is a "socialist" and John Howard was "the envy of the world"? Brilliant. :D

Yay! Nice going Australia! Smart people you are! :) Good job on voting in a sensible government. Now I know where I can flee to if Canada doesn't come to its senses next election.

Wow...the Liberals got thrashed.

A step in the right direction, but i'd warn anyone expecting a complete turnaround from the Howard government about being too complacent; many of the same interests that drive the Liberal party at its core are the very same that do or potentially do have equal clout within Labor.

I'm hoping that Labor are amenable to turning back several of the more objectionable Liberal policies (I needn't start) but i'm not entirely certain they will. And especially if they end up controlling both houses, I expect they will prove that they can play just as dirty.

But for the meantime, Howard's gone, and it's party time! :D

Yes. Do you feel that?? That feeling of cleanness?? Its quite enjoyable. I am glad we finally managed to do it. I think they finished doing their benefinical things to the economy in their second term.
now Labor has around a decade to do some stuff. Will be interesting to see what and how well they do it. And how long till Julia Gillard becomes PM.

Im glad Evil Eyebrow man has lost his seat. I think all parties needed reminding that nothing is set in stone.

But reall, we all knew Rudd was going to win. ther was no serious non-labour polls 'til the day before, and I thought immediately it was going to be a dud batch. Okay, libs did improve at the end, but really, they stood on an economic platform. Anyone who can spell economic must have noticed the following:

1) Libs (for BBC viewers and other foreign onlookers our 'Liberals' are conservatives. Howard even said so in his speach) ran a fear campaign on 10, even 17% interest rates, yet when Howard was treasurer (ie. focused more attention on economics) intrestrates hit 22%

2) Libs also ran a fear campaign on national debt which he paid of by flogging all our assets (see Telstra) for a price they would have given the govt in 2 years

3) Like the other fear campaigns (children overboard, 9-11, intrest rates '04) the core of this (anti-union) one was unfounded, but unlike the others they failed the groundwork. Why are Unions evil again? Oh yeah! Of course! Yellow signs on TV said so

4) There was a "risk' from "ex-union lawyers (Gillard), Environmental extremeists (Garret), and learners (Rudd, Swan)" who at the same time were doing 'backflips and not actually sticking to these principles'

5) No-one likes Costello. (well, okay, he got his seat but still)

It's almost as stupid as a sister-in-law of a famous serial killer standing on a pro-guns platform (This also happened this election.) !CHASER REFERENCE!

Anyhow, I'm in mayo, so I still gotta put up with our local lib - MP Alexander Downer :sniper:

Ahhh, damn it. Rudds "appease all" junk has won.

But on the bright side labour will get rid of some of the more distateful liberal policies(AWAs) before the people crawl back to Costello.

Anyhow, I'm in mayo, so I still gotta put up with our local lib - MP Alexander Downer :sniper:

I'm in Makin and not old enough to vote, we lost our MP of forever to retirement :(

EDIT: That first line was wrong, I'm evidently bad at geography.

But on the bright side labour will get rid of some of the more distateful liberal policies(AWAs) before the people crawl back to Costello.

It'll take a lot before "the people" feel the need to crawl back to Costello.

My electorate of Solomon is too close to call, hopefully the postal votes will not help the sitting member Nuclear Dave.

Looks like GW Bush has one less ally in power.

And the senate looks more even now.

Well Done, Kevin Rudd.

I mean, it's great to see a new leader of Australia after having Howard for 11 and a half years. The pulling out of Iraq is good too.

And the senate looks more even now.
I think Wiki gives it a small conservative majority unfortunately.:(

I turn 17 in January so I've only ever known the one Prime Minister, so yeah it'll be a nice change.
Put it this way. I've lived through Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown. Prepare for change to be disappointing.:)

I mean, it's great to see a new leader of Australia after having Howard for 11 and a half years. The pulling out of Iraq is good too.

I turn 17 in January so I've only ever known the one Prime Minister, so yeah it'll be a nice change.

I think Wiki gives it a small conservative majority unfortunately.:(

Oh yes, the Family Last Party!

I'm hoping that Labor are amenable to turning back several of the more objectionable Liberal policies (I needn't start) but i'm not entirely certain they will. And especially if they end up controlling both houses, I expect they will prove that they can play just as dirty.
Things Can Only Get Better (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDMJHYKrHNA).

;)

Hey look, Fox News even covered the win

Australian Opposition Party Claims Election Victory Over Top Bush Ally John Howard
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312705,00.html

Hey look, Fox News even covered the win

Australian Opposition Party Claims Election Victory Over Top Bush Ally John Howard
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312705,00.html

ok we are Doom now, thank you Fox :mad:

Well done Australia. A result for common sense and not too long after the Poles booted out their lunatic rulers too.

All we need now is for the US voters to rid the world of the "head vampire" and we may all have a future!

Yay! Nice going Australia! Smart people you are! :) Good job on voting in a sensible government. Now I know where I can flee to if Canada doesn't come to its senses next election.
NO kidding. New ZEaland was my backup plan, but the way things are looking there, I might just have to move to Tasmania.

Hey look, Fox News even covered the win

Australian Opposition Party Claims Election Victory Over Top Bush Ally John Howard
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312705,00.html

I'll bet Mr. Murdoch snapped a pencil or two. Maybe even swore!

The fuck? "Chinese-speaking diplomat"? Random shot.

Also, LOLWUT at Top Bush Ally.

Hehe, so the top bush ally is now France! :p

Yay! Nice going Australia! Smart people you are! :) Good job on voting in a sensible government. Now I know where I can flee to if Canada doesn't come to its senses next election.

Mmm, but does Australia have legal precedent towards legal file sharing? Canada remains number one in my book. I believe Australia have moved up into a tie for second.

Hey look, Fox News even covered the win

Australian Opposition Party Claims Election Victory Over Top Bush Ally John Howard
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312705,00.html

The fuck? "Chinese-speaking diplomat"? Random shot.

Also, LOLWUT at Top Bush Ally.

Mmm, but does Australia have legal precedent towards legal file sharing? Canada remains number one in my book. I believe Australia have moved up into a tie for second.



The fuck? "Chinese-speaking diplomat"? Random shot.

Also, LOLWUT at Top Bush Ally.

Yay that was most definitely below the belt. Plant the seed of suspicion! (Viewers of Fox's drama series "24", will be aware of Chinese politics.)

I agree with some of the above posts about W thankfully losing an ally, I can't help but be disappointed that Australia elected a government dangerous to Liberty. I think Australia should've voted for one of the two Libertarian parties available to voters. Yes I know both are small and one may have issues being registered but the point is I disagree with those who did have the chance to choose between a statist party and a Libertarian party and unfortunatly chose the former.
:headbang:
Hopefully Australia will do better for itsself next time. Congrats Labor!
www.ldp.org.au/
www.ldp.org.au/quiz/index.html

Hehe, so the top bush ally is now France! :p

Lol. Hardly a "grand coalition". Sarkozy can't even get his citizens to work!

I'm actually quite disappointed. I'm one of those minorities who actually agree with the policies of John Howard. A great man and a great leader for Australia. Kevin Rudd has some big shoes to fill.

Put it this way. I've lived through Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown. Prepare for change to be disappointing.:)

One of those points that I just wish were not true.........

Hehe, so the top bush ally is now France! :p

You've just made me very unhappy. :(

A new government is unlikely to mean a large-scale change in Australia's foreign relations, including with the United States — it's most important security partner — or with Asia, which is increasingly important for the economy.

[...] Labor has been out of power for more than a decade, and few in Rudd's team — including him — has any government experience at the federal level.


Doesn't Fox even know basic grammar? :eek:

I'll bet Mr. Murdoch snapped a pencil or two. Maybe even swore!

Didn't Murdoch's papers actually endorse Labor?

Didn't Murdoch's papers actually endorse Labor?

Murdoch endorsing Labour? The world has come to an end!

Wow...the Liberals got thrashed.

A step in the right direction, but i'd warn anyone expecting a complete turnaround from the Howard government about being too complacent; many of the same interests that drive the Liberal party at its core are the very same that do or potentially do have equal clout within Labor.

I'm hoping that Labor are amenable to turning back several of the more objectionable Liberal policies (I needn't start) but i'm not entirely certain they will. And especially if they end up controlling both houses, I expect they will prove that they can play just as dirty.

But for the meantime, Howard's gone, and it's party time! :D

Have five beers, man. You know, an extra one for me in addition to your usual four. :p

Doesn't Fox even know basic grammar? :eek:

No.

Apparently, the press in the U.A.E. are more interested in details of the election. ;)


A candidate in Australia’s election got more than just questions from an encounter with a journalist Saturday — suffering a slap to the face from a high-profile reporter, a report said.

Opposition Labour Party candidate George Newhouse was at a polling station in Sydney’s affluent eastern suburbs when approached by award-winning journalist Caroline Overington, witnesses told the Australian Associated Press.

Overington, who has won Australia’s highest journalistic honour, allegedly shocked voters and booth attendants by walking up and slapping Newhouse across the face before striding off, AAP reported.

[...] Newhouse is a candidate in the rich seat of Wentworth, currently held by government minister and self-made millionaire Malcolm Turnbull but considered winnable by the centre-left Labour Party.

But the seat has provided even more drama than simply politics, with Newhouse’s ex-girlfriend Dani Ecuyer running against him as an independent.

Last week flirtatious emails sent by Overington, who writes for national broadsheet The Australian, to Newhouse were published in rival papers. Overington dismissed the emails as a joke.


(link (http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data/theworld/2007/November/theworld_November698.xml&section=theworld))

Murdoch endorsing Labour? The world has come to an end!

I'm pretty sure his papers actually endorsed New Labour when they first came to power as well.

Question:

I'm not clear on how the Australian version of preferential voting actually works. Does your ballot automatically transfer to another party based on agreements between the party leaders, or does the voter ultimately decide who it transfers to, and the party leaders just ask their supporters to give preferences to a particular party?

Question:

I'm not clear on how the Australian version of preferential voting actually works. Does your ballot automatically transfer to another party based on agreements between the party leaders, or does the voter ultimately decide who it transfers to, and the party leaders just ask their supporters to give preferences to a particular party?
In the house of reps you have to preference all the candidates from 1 to 6 or whatever (1 for first choice, 2 for second etc). This means that if you're first choice does not win the seat, then you're vote goes down to the next one down you picked and so on.

In the house of reps you have to preference all the candidates from 1 to 6 or whatever (1 for first choice, 2 for second etc). This means that if you're first choice does not win the seat, then you're vote goes down to the next one down you picked and so on.

So it is the voter that decides the preferences. Presumably then these agreements between parties are just to encourage their supporters to give their second preferences to a particular party?

So it is the voter that decides the preferences. Presumably then these agreements between parties are just to encourage their supporters to give their second preferences to a particular party?

That's for the house. In the senate it's different, every state elects 5 senators or so to the senate in Canberra, but they are not done on a electoral division system system, it's done state by state. But the thing is the voter has a choice between voting 'above the line' in which they give only '1' vote to one party above the line, and that party decides where all your preferences go so they have to best chance, you can do that you go 'below the line' and preference all other candidates (dozens) in your order. Because it's confusing most people go above the line for their favorite party.

That's for the house. In the senate it's different, every state elects 5 senators or so to the senate in Canberra, but they are not done on a electoral division system system, it's done state by state. But the thing is the voter has a choice between voting 'above the line' in which they give only '1' vote to one party above the line, and that party decides where all your preferences go so they have to best chance, you can do that you go 'below the line' and preference all other candidates (dozens) in your order. Because it's confusing most people go above the line for their favorite party.

Bizarre. I thought it was just a simple STV system for the Senate, but apparently not. I wonder what we'll end up with in Canada if we ever get our Senate reformed ...

I am actually quite happy with the result, if you saw Rudd's victory speech you'll see he's like the embodiment of the 'third way' centrist, which will be good for the country after 11 years of Howard I think.

What's the Labour Policy on War on Terror?

What's the Labour Policy on War on Terror?

Apparently they want less troops in Iraq, more in Afghanistan. Out of the frying pan, into the fire!

Apparently they want less troops in Iraq, more in Afghanistan. Out of the frying pan, into the fire!

Actually Rudd said that he thought the war on terror was going well after 9/11 in Afghanistan until Bush decided to invade Iraq, which he thought was a dud and created the terrorist threat rather than fighting it. He also promised a more 'independent' Australian foreign policy.

So, now that we're all elated with the fact that Howard's gone, it might just be the time to look at that guy who replaced him.

While the election was going on, it was akin to treason to mention this, but his campaign was really just a collection of soundbites. The ALP rightly counted on people's dissatisfaction with Howard, and all they needed to do was present an electable alternative.

That's what Rudd was - "electable". He's a smart guy, but his campaign and even his victory speech yesterday was just one slogan after another.

What do you think he'll actually be like? What will actually change? I mean, the basic wish of the Australian people is clear: they want economic growth and they don't want high inflation and therefore interest rates. That's why a Labor government is ultimately very constrained in its economic policies and will essentially do the same as the Liberals - sit on the side and pat themselves on the back.

They'll probably sign a few agreements on climate change, but do you think it will go beyond that and get to a stage where we actually notice in our daily lives?

And perhaps closer to my heart - do you think we'll see a change on immigration?

And perhaps closer to my heart - do you think we'll see a change on immigration?

Last I saw, Rudd said Australia will maintain a policy of deterrence, turning ships back and parking asylum seekers on Christmas Island, while shutting down the detention centre on Nauru and the (empty) one in PNG.

As for "regular" immigration, I don't know. I can't recall reading his views on the topic.

So, now that we're all elated with the fact that Howard's gone, it might just be the time to look at that guy who replaced him.

While the election was going on, it was akin to treason to mention this, but his campaign was really just a collection of soundbites. The ALP rightly counted on people's dissatisfaction with Howard, and all they needed to do was present an electable alternative.

That's what Rudd was - "electable". He's a smart guy, but his campaign and even his victory speech yesterday was just one slogan after another.

What do you think he'll actually be like? What will actually change? I mean, the basic wish of the Australian people is clear: they want economic growth and they don't want high inflation and therefore interest rates. That's why a Labor government is ultimately very constrained in its economic policies and will essentially do the same as the Liberals - sit on the side and pat themselves on the back.

They'll probably sign a few agreements on climate change, but do you think it will go beyond that and get to a stage where we actually notice in our daily lives?

And perhaps closer to my heart - do you think we'll see a change on immigration?

Immigration was a non-issue at this election. However ideologically poisonous the "Pacific Solution" has been, it's also worked; Australia is now a much less desired target for illegals. Rudd will probably quietly permit it to continue.

As to climate, Rudd has said he'll sign Kyoto, but when you get right down to it that's pretty much meaningless; Kyoto is useless. Given the economic situation and the anger at Howard for allowing continued interest rate rises, I wouldn't expect any drastic changes to actual policy.

Actually Rudd's campaign was largely a blank slate and the election was won based on an anti-Howard/WorkChoices etc ticket, so Rudd's policy is still largely undefined and will probably up to the new labor caucus, probably with lots of influence if the Greens end up taking the balance in the senate.

The fuck? "Chinese-speaking diplomat"? Random shot.

Also, LOLWUT at Top Bush Ally.

NEWS FLASH!: Former Chinese Embassy Worker Speaks Chinese!!!

News.com.au stories are being spammed literally non-stop by right-wingers now claiming the sky will fall in tomorrow, we will have interest rates of 50%, everyone will be unemployed and illegal immigrants will take our jobs, and that the unions will control the economy. I've never seen such a bunch of ungracious losers.

News.com.au stories are being spammed literally non-stop by right-wingers now claiming the sky will fall in tomorrow, we will have interest rates of 50%, everyone will be unemployed and illegal immigrants will take our jobs, and that the unions will control the economy. I've never seen such a bunch of ungracious losers.I have, when Bush was re-elected...

I have, when Bush was re-elected...

But wasn't there a legal challenge to the validity of the poll in one state when Bush was re-elected? And couldn't the outcome of that challenge have changed the outcome of the election? I'm sorry, I can't remember the details, but that kind of question could account for a certain amount of "we-wuz-robbed" feeling.

There's one seat in the Australian election where there may be a legal challenge, but it's a technical one (when did the Labor candidate resign from his public service job?), there's no doubt that the poll itself was valid, and even if the result were reversed, it wouldn't change the overall outcome.

That said, I don't think the "sky is falling" stuff is all that different from the usual post-election tristesse. It's not like the deep bitterness after the 1975 Dismissal election (which was another case where one side felt the rules had been broken).

EDIT: Costello announces he won't run for leadership Link (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/minisite/election_article.aspx?id=305478&sectionid=6046&sectionname=minisiteelection)

But wasn't there a legal challenge to the validity of the poll in one state when Bush was re-elected? And couldn't the outcome of that challenge have changed the outcome of the election?120,000 votes in Ohio? Not likely.

Anywho, good on Labor. Surely now that you're in power, you will have the resources at your command to find that missing "u." ;)

Australia is a prison camp. It has been since it was settled. It's populated by Bubba's children and their ass-raped uncle's. It should come as no shock to anyone then that the entire population is a mass of lazy, drunken thieves and the people who run the Australian government are no exception. The Australian government spent 84 million on a porno filter that was defeated by a 16 year old boy.

But in all seriousness, Australians take pride in their cultural diversity through such large gatherings as "The Sydney Race Riots" and legislation such as "The White Australia Policy" which luminously highlight the country's warm fuzzy feelings for colored people.

You have no culture except that which you stole from England. Your island nation is mostly desert. You've been ruining your environment with invasive species and beer bottles since you got to the worthless clump of dry mud you call a country. And perhaps worst of all, you can't speak English!

Indri, possum, abuse us all you like, but it's still your shout, mate.

Kenny, I bow, as always, to your research staff.

But the missing "u" was a turn-of-the-century lefty tribute to the progressiveness and shining idealism of America, that haven of the working man and woman. How could we abandon it now?

Howard=n00b

Finally the ugly old fossil is gone.:cool:

This is a highlight of this year! :D

And I have lived in Aus for 4 years, so I know how it feels. ;)

Congratulations, Australia! Your new Prime Minister likes to eat earwax! :D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aQ8YiIV1AI)

Didn't Murdoch's papers actually endorse Labor?

Murdoch made it very clear that he would be staying out of this election, with his comments in the last causing nothing less than a firestorm for his 'interferance' in Australian politics. Like it or not though, I'm almost certain he would have appreciated Howard's reform to laws surrounding foriegn ownership in the media though. I think to some degree, he'll be disappointed (but not undetermined to prevail in a slightly different political atmosphere).

Whether Rudd is able to win a second election in the meantime or not is up to how the Liberals are able to re-organize themselves for it. If they're intelligent, they'll use the slowing of the Australian economy and the inevitable rise of inflation and interest rates under any government to their advantage. Of course, with Peter Costello announcing that he'll retire after this term as the elected member for Higgins...

The future of the Liberal Party ultimately rests on those remaining. Turnbull is an economic moderate, and the lack of people (that I know of) who are members of the New Right school of thought disappoint me.

Maybe its finally time that I ran for Prime Minister. ;)

Murdoch made it very clear that he would be staying out of this election, with his comments in the last causing nothing less than a firestorm for his 'interferance' in Australian politics. Like it or not though, I'm almost certain he would have appreciated Howard's reform to laws surrounding foriegn ownership in the media though. I think to some degree, he'll be disappointed (but not undetermined to prevail in a slightly different political atmosphere).

Whether Rudd is able to win a second election in the meantime or not is up to how the Liberals are able to re-organize themselves for it. If they're intelligent, they'll use the slowing of the Australian economy and the inevitable rise of inflation and interest rates under any government to their advantage. Of course, with Peter Costello announcing that he'll retire after this term as the elected member for Higgins...

The future of the Liberal Party ultimately rests on those remaining. Turnbull is an economic moderate, and the lack of people (that I know of) who are members of the New Right school of thought disappoint me.

Maybe its finally time that I ran for Prime Minister. ;)

I hope for their sake, they don't pick Downer again.

Australia is a prison camp. It has been since it was settled. It's populated by Bubba's children and their ass-raped uncle's. It should come as no shock to anyone then that the entire population is a mass of lazy, drunken thieves and the people who run the Australian government are no exception. The Australian government spent 84 million on a porno filter that was defeated by a 16 year old boy.

But in all seriousness, Australians take pride in their cultural diversity through such large gatherings as "The Sydney Race Riots" and legislation such as "The White Australia Policy" which luminously highlight the country's warm fuzzy feelings for colored people.

You have no culture except that which you stole from England. Your island nation is mostly desert. You've been ruining your environment with invasive species and beer bottles since you got to the worthless clump of dry mud you call a country. And perhaps worst of all, you can't speak English!

So got any more venom for the other ex-English convict dumping ground as well? You know what nation I'm talking about.

Australia is a prison camp. It has been since it was settled. It's populated by Bubba's children and their ass-raped uncle's. It should come as no shock to anyone then that the entire population is a mass of lazy, drunken thieves and the people who run the Australian government are no exception.

Congratulations on your fantastic grasp of the history of WA, SA and NT.

The Liberal party won't recover from this for a long time I am thinking, Costello and many senior MPs gone, Liberals aren't in office anywhere in the country.

Congratulations on your fantastic grasp of the history of WA, SA and NT.

indeed not all of us have convict blood running in us

indeed not all of us have convict blood running in us

Well... WA is a bit iffy, you guys didn't want convicts, but then you got into a spot of trouble and realised that trading convicts for help works pretty well.

Well... WA is a bit iffy, you guys didn't want convicts, but then you got into a spot of trouble and realised that trading convicts for help works pretty well.

thats was a deal

but still not of have convicts in their family tree, i don't my lot came here much later

Howard has finally been brought down, that's all that matters.

He said no GST, we got a GST.
He exploited the Tampa crisis.
He's buried his head in the sand over global warming.
He forgets that the Business Council of Australia (which is 100% pro-Liberal) is as much of a union as any other organisation.

He is gone! :D

Congratulations on your fantastic grasp of the history of WA, SA and NT.

Not to mention that until the American Revolution in the 1770s, America was England's convict dumping ground.

But they have managed to gloss over this part of their history, and at least the beginnings of Europeian settlement in Australia doesn't involve a bunch of Bible bashers who believed they had a "manifest destiny" straight from the Big Volcano Guy himself to take over the continent.

He forgets that the Business Council of Australia (which is 100% pro-Liberal) is as much of a union as any other organisation.

Not really. The Business Council of Australia is pro-business. Just because the Liberal Party of Australia has best captured the spirit of entrepreneurial ism over their Labor counterparts over the past howsoever many years, doesn't mean they're particularly Liberal.

Your conclusion on the other hand is like saying the Unions are 100% pro-Labor, which is not true at all.

Not to mention that until the American Revolution in the 1770s, America was England's convict dumping ground.
Well, mainly Georgia, if I'm not much mistaken.

The future of the Liberal Party ultimately rests on those remaining. Turnbull is an economic moderate, and the lack of people (that I know of) who are members of the New Right school of thought disappoint me.



Meet the new right, same as the old right?

But they have managed to gloss over this part of their history, and at least the beginnings of Europeian settlement in Australia doesn't involve a bunch of Bible bashers who believed they had a "manifest destiny" straight from the Big Volcano Guy himself to take over the continent.

Didn't make the colonization any less brutal though.

Meet the new right, same as the old right?

Actually, not really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Right

Actually, not really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Right

So do they advocate conservative social policies because they believe in them or because they need them in order to get the votes from the Old Right? I still don't understand how one can elevate economic freedoms above social freedoms in that way.

What happened to Pauline Hanson? Did she contest this election and what has become of the One Nation Party, they seemed like a source of hope.

A pity Australia lacks a Ian Smith type figure to rescue the people from their political crisis.

A pity Australia lacks a Ian Smith type figure to rescue the people from their political crisis.

Its a pity every country lacks an Ian Smith type.

A pity Australia lacks a Ian Smith type figure to rescue the people from their political crisis.There's a crisis? And how would a racist help?

There's a crisis? And how would a racist help?

Well, he led the country into the era of inter-racial harmony that exists in Zimbabwe today. :)

71-50 with 35.7% counted! 5 more seats and Labor has won government. Labor also looks set to take Bennelong, unseating the Prime Minister in his own seat.

Sit back and watch.

As the Right Honourable Prime Minister John Howard said "when the government changes, the country changes"

We're ready for change, Mr Howard.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/whereyouthinkyougoing/Smilies/happydance.gif

Let's hope they don't disappoint (too much :/).

(I'm late to the game, I know <<)

I know this is a bit of a sidebar to the main conversation, but it is absolutely ADORABLE reading what Australians have to say, much less hearing them. I think if I actually spoke face-to-face with a hot Australian girl I would probably pass out... (just had to throw that one out there)... I do enjoy reading about different nations' political systems here (<-USA), only on Nationstates.....

Well, he led the country into the era of inter-racial harmony that exists in Zimbabwe today. :)

And Bob Mugabe proved that a black man is just as capable of running a repressive regime as whites are!

Immigration was a non-issue at this election. However ideologically poisonous the "Pacific Solution" has been, it's also worked; Australia is now a much less desired target for illegals. Rudd will probably quietly permit it to continue.
Goddammit.

So I guess there's nothing for it but to wait for either Turnbull to establish himself as boss of the Liberals with an iron fist and remove the conservative and xenophobic elements, or the Greens to go for it in the House of Reps, as Bob Brown hinted might be on the agenda in the future.

What happened to Pauline Hanson? Did she contest this election and what has become of the One Nation Party, they seemed like a source of hope.

A pity Australia lacks a Ian Smith type figure to rescue the people from their political crisis.

Those voters became coalition voters. :D

Mazel Tov to the Aussies!

Yay! Nice going Australia! Smart people you are! :) Good job on voting in a sensible government. Now I know where I can flee to if Canada doesn't come to its senses next election.

You'd get your feet wet, though.

===============

But reall, we all knew Rudd was going to win. ther was no serious non-labour polls 'til the day before, and I thought immediately it was going to be a dud batch. Okay, libs did improve at the end

Primary votes 43% vs 36%, bang down the middle of all polls but that erratic Galaxy poll the day before. I think Galaxy got pranked somehow, perhaps their call list leaked or something.

Anyhow, I'm in mayo, so I still gotta put up with our local lib - MP Alexander Downer :sniper:

Eh, if he gets the leadership he won't be in your face much.

================

I'll bet Mr. Murdoch snapped a pencil or two. Maybe even swore!

Actually, Murdoch is far too smart to take any side but the winning side. You know what else he owns besides Fox? ... no, it's too good. Go see for yourself!
(http://www.newscorp.com/operations/newspapers.html)
================

Didn't Murdoch's papers actually endorse Labor?

Murdoch's Australian is actually a very good paper, our only national broadsheet, founded by him personally. I think he was even the editor in the early years.

================

So, now that we're all elated with the fact that Howard's gone, it might just be the time to look at that guy who replaced him.

While the election was going on, it was akin to treason to mention this, but his campaign was really just a collection of soundbites. The ALP rightly counted on people's dissatisfaction with Howard, and all they needed to do was present an electable alternative.

Yep. "Small target." People just laughed when Beazley tried that ;)

That's what Rudd was - "electable". He's a smart guy, but his campaign and even his victory speech yesterday was just one slogan after another.

What do you think he'll actually be like? What will actually change? I mean, the basic wish of the Australian people is clear: they want economic growth and they don't want high inflation and therefore interest rates. That's why a Labor government is ultimately very constrained in its economic policies and will essentially do the same as the Liberals - sit on the side and pat themselves on the back.

I think they will spend big on Education -- by the next election Iraq and Workchoices will be gone. Particularly the 18-26 demographic (hugely pro-Labor this time) will be looking at higher interest rates, and forgetting about owning their own home without a really good job. There will be even more demand, therefore, for higher education and technical skills training.
Education is also a key to economic growth, and the Howard government knew it towards the end. They chose not to spend the billions it would take, there just wasn't time enough left for the good effects to work through to the economy -- Rudd will want to spend early to show results by the next election.

They'll probably sign a few agreements on climate change, but do you think it will go beyond that and get to a stage where we actually notice in our daily lives?

Yes. Under Hawke/Keating, Australia punched way above it's weight in the drafting of the Kyoto Protocol. Our international reputation is relatively poor now (in Asia particularly) but an early ratification of Kyoto will send a nice clear signal that things have changed.

Australia is one of the most heinous greenhouse emitters (per capita) and we have absolutely no excuse for it. I think there'll be stopgap measures like gas instead of coal electricity generation, and a bit more spending on research. And definitely no nuke plants.

And perhaps closer to my heart - do you think we'll see a change on immigration?

Not much. Sorry. Maybe some lateral solutions, like immigration only to regions with labour shortages (ie farm workers) and increased opportunities for skilled or wealthy immigrants.

=============

Australia is a prison camp. It has been since it was settled. It's populated by Bubba's children and their ass-raped uncle's. It should come as no shock to anyone then that the entire population is a mass of lazy, drunken thieves and the people who run the Australian government are no exception. The Australian government spent 84 million on a porno filter that was defeated by a 16 year old boy.

But in all seriousness, Australians take pride in their cultural diversity through such large gatherings as "The Sydney Race Riots" and legislation such as "The White Australia Policy" which luminously highlight the country's warm fuzzy feelings for colored people.

You have no culture except that which you stole from England. Your island nation is mostly desert. You've been ruining your environment with invasive species and beer bottles since you got to the worthless clump of dry mud you call a country. And perhaps worst of all, you can't speak English!

Lol. You talk like a real Aussie. Why not apply for citizenship?

==============

Congratulations, Australia! Your new Prime Minister likes to eat earwax! :D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aQ8YiIV1AI)

That's Kevin showing his commitment to renewable sources of energy!

==============

I hope for their sake, they don't pick Downer again.

It's a long shot compared to Turnbull, but it could happen. The reason I say that is that every other contender (well, Abbott and Nelson anyway) need more time to have a chance, and they'll try to keep Turnbull out at least for now. They'll grow old waiting for their turn if he gets in.

After Costello, Downer was the most loyal to Howard. He'll be associated with the old days, and getting him out of the leader's position will be a simple matter of asking him nicely. Big ol' teddy-bear that he is.

I'm watching Costello with great suspicion, too. "Mentoring some of the younger members" could mean "working the numbers and getting up a posse" for when he snatches the leadership and purges most of the front bench.

================

What happened to Pauline Hanson? Did she contest this election and what has become of the One Nation Party, they seemed like a source of hope.


0.3 % nationally.

They got thumped by parties most people have never heard of. The late departed Democrats got more than twice that.

No hope for you.

===============

I know this is a bit of a sidebar to the main conversation, but it is absolutely ADORABLE reading what Australians have to say, much less hearing them. I think if I actually spoke face-to-face with a hot Australian girl I would probably pass out... (just had to throw that one out there)... I do enjoy reading about different nations' political systems here (<-USA), only on Nationstates.....

Here's a hot Aussie chick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbrXfbpBL44) for ya! EDIT: Oh, bummer "she goes, she goes, she just goes" has been taken down. Oh well, here's more Kylie.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzRIuy4MO1U)
===============

There hasn't been much mention of the Senate in this thread.

The Liberal/National coalition continues to hold the Senate until the new Senate sits in July. Labor is making threatening noises about their "mandate" but the fact is the Coalition can block legislation until then.

The damn Senate count still isn't complete, but the new Senate will almost certainly look like:

Lib/Nat . . . 37
Labor. . . . . 32
Green. . . . . 5
Family Fist . 1
Indep. . . . . 1

The independent is former South Austrlian MLC Nick Xenophon, mr. No Pokies. He opposes WorkChoices and is somewhat green (brown perhaps?).

Two Democrats were swept away and three new Greens elected. Both Labor and the Coalition won 18 seats this round (half-Senate election), so the only way the Coalition is keeping any grip on the Senate at all is the half of the Senate who weren't up for re-election.

In the next half-Senate contest, the Coalition needs to reproduce this to keep the same claim on the Senate (these are the sitting Senators who were not up for re-election this time):

Lib/Nat . . . 19
Labor. . . . . 14
Green. . . . . 2
Family First . 1

... and that I believe shows why Costello doesn't want the leadership. Rudd would have to nuke NZ to lose that much support.

But it's a very interesting Senate, precise deadlock if Xenophon votes with the Greens and Labor, while Family First vote with the Coalition.

I'll just add: Senator Barnaby Joyce for Senate President!

If I'd lived in Australia at some point in the past three years I would've voted for Rudd. Despite him being hugely against gay marriage.

..I really don't know enough about Aussie politics to have a valid opinion on this. On the other hand, hooray, maybe there will be some better progress on environmental issues now.

I'm watching Costello with great suspicion, too. "Mentoring some of the younger members" could mean "working the numbers and getting up a posse" for when he snatches the leadership and purges most of the front bench.

It reminds me of Beazley's 2001 pledge to leave Parliament at the 2004 election.

I'll just add: Senator Barnaby Joyce for Senate President!

He's quite a character indeed. He's make things very entertaining.

Abbott wants to be leader
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/26/2101115.htm

Mark Vaile (Nationals leader) quits! (3 hours ago) (http://www.theage.com.au/news/federal-election-2007-news/shock-as-mark-vaile-quits/2007/11/26/1196036786139.html)

Jeepers, I'm starting to feel sorry for Coalition supporters. It must be like I felt watching Meg Lees quit the Democrats. Explosive malfunction.

If I were a Lib supporter, I might even feel as angry as I did with the exit of Mark Latham from Labor.

Listen now to the sad wail of ol' Jeff Kennett (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/11/25/1195975866027.html):



I pen this contribution having just heard the Costello Declaration. I am angry, profoundly disappointed. That Peter Costello, the man who so desperately sought the leadership of the Liberal Party now, totally unexpectedly, indicates he no longer wishes to serve the party in a leadership role.

For years, Costello has demanded that the Liberal leadership — and the prime ministership of this country — be handed to him on a platter. That was not to be. Now when the leadership is there for the taking, albeit with a heavy workload attached, he reneges.

Costello says he has withdrawn in the interests of renewal within the party. For goodness sake, he is only 50 years of age, he has overseen the best economic times Australia has lived through, and he has a bucket-load of experience.

You can imagine the profound sense of anger and hurt by so many, particularly those Liberals who worked so hard in his electorate for his return to Parliament at this election, expecting they were working for the next leader of the party. Hundreds of Victorian Liberals were counting on him being the next Victorian-bred leader of the party.

Well, one news conference today has destroyed that dream. This one announcement says more about the character of the man than his 11 years as Treasurer of this country.

Abbott wants to be leader
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/26/2101115.htm
His Policies:

- Turning up late for everything.
- Swearing on live tv frequently.

His Policies:

- Turning up late for everything.
- Swearing on live tv frequently.

Rhodes scholar. Hawkie was too. *nod*

Even Andrew Bolt, a fervant conservative columnist, thinks the coalition is doomed, and without partisanism I have to agree, for these reasons:

- Election obviously, you don't recover from such an absolute thrashing overnight.

- Costello, Vaile and possibly Brough out of politics forever, throwing the party into possibly a protracted leadership struggle and possibly an even nastier struggle between the old-school social conservatives (Howards gang: Abbot, Ruddock etc) and the new 'left' classic libertarians such as Turnbull. Also without the big public and well-known face of Howard they will struggle.

- Liberals are not in government in any public office in the country, no state governments, Labor is in power in all states and now federally with a strong majority and possibly with the greens a strong labor senate. The Liberals have never been strong in the states, they haven't been in government in years and the parties in each state are pretty inept and behind in polls despite Labor scandals etc.

My prediction is that Rudd will be a pretty consistent 'third way' centrist, but that the influence of the Greens (preferences which won labor many seats in the election, possible balance in the senate) and the left in his own party and unions will make the government more center-left over time.

And in the Northern Territory ... we have a new Chief Minister and deputy (this one was planned).

I don't want Abbott as Opposition leader, and my reasons are neither partisan nor personal. It's because of his stance on abortion.

If there is one thing Abbott is known for (other than saying stupid things) it's his deeply-ingrained opposition to abortion, based in his Catholicism.

Now that's fine, he's entitled to have a position on abortion, but the problem is that Rudd is also "concerned" about abortion. Rudd without Abbott will bow to his party, which is unquestioningly pro-choice, and keep very quiet on the issue. Abbott without Rudd (eg against Swan or Gillard) wouldn't dare try to put it on the agenda as leader. Abortion on demand is very popular in Australia.

But, put the two leaders head to head, and it will come up even if the debate benefits neither party. Abbot will put it up because he believes Rudd won't fight back with full strength ... and worst of all, he might be right.

And what we've learnt from the US, is that once abortion is on the national agenda it's going to stay there for years. It's a toehold for theocrats who want legislation to enforce their beliefs, and it could seriously weaken the Labor party in years to come, as it has been a burden to the US Democrats.

Of course, Rudd might finnesse it, pass some mildly unpopular requirements for counselling in some cases (for instance) ... but it's a bad risk.

Turnbull isn't going to come with that crap. Not that I like him, but that really is just personal.

The small massacre of the Liberals may not be all bad for them -- more like the bushfire that clears the undergrowth. Queensland Labor had its own wipeout in the '70s, leading to Federal intervention that forced an end to some of the inbred factional battles. But look at Labor's base in that State today.

There's no doubt the Libs have got a lot of undergrowth to clear, not least in NSW, where their right has been so busy keeping their own dangerous "lefties" at bay they've seemed unable to look beyond that struggle.

But with a presentable front -- and Turnbull's so new to Parliament that he's still presentable as a fresh start -- and a pragmatic approach to candidate selection, they could come about quite quickly, even though they don't have the resources of an incumbent government anywhere.

I suspect they may have to look at whether they actually have an ideology/philosophy/reason for being there, other than being Not-Labor. Good pollies need something beyond the thought of a safe income, a good pension and a bit of influence to keep them going. If the outcome of this is a clearer definition of what their "light on the hill" is, they could actually benefit.

Keating was no doubt being mischievous when he praised Petro Georgiou and Julie Bishop, but I'll bet the thought of a Turnbull-Bishop pairing against a Rudd-Gillard set has crossed more minds than mine.

Maybe the Lib faithful really are disheartened about Costello backing off and Downer making noises that sound suspiciously like "what a good ambassador I'd make if you asked me". But if I were a Young Lib, I'd be seizing the day.

EDIT: BTW, what about GetUp? They're 200,000-plus strong, insist they're not into party politics and seem to want the "keeping the bastards honest" mantle. Might that be where all the lost Democrats go?

Oh yes, the Family Last Party!

I can't believe so many people voted for them.

*snip*

And perhaps closer to my heart - do you think we'll see a change on immigration?

I don't actually know what Labor's policies on immigration are, but I am glad to see a "Chinese-speaking diplomat" in power rather than an Asian-hating racist!

Australia is a prison camp. It has been since it was settled. It's populated by Bubba's children and their ass-raped uncle's. It should come as no shock to anyone then that the entire population is a mass of lazy, drunken thieves and the people who run the Australian government are no exception. The Australian government spent 84 million on a porno filter that was defeated by a 16 year old boy.

But in all seriousness, Australians take pride in their cultural diversity through such large gatherings as "The Sydney Race Riots" and legislation such as "The White Australia Policy" which luminously highlight the country's warm fuzzy feelings for colored people.

You have no culture except that which you stole from England. Your island nation is mostly desert. You've been ruining your environment with invasive species and beer bottles since you got to the worthless clump of dry mud you call a country. And perhaps worst of all, you can't speak English!

The White Australia Policy no longer exists. Australia is actually very multi-cultural. In more rural or less-educated/less-affluent areas there is still a little racism against those with dark skin or those of Asian-descent, however, in the city, racism is rare. There is still more that could be done, but I believe our nation suffers much less from racism than other countries.

Australia is a young country, and the current Australian culture is largely different to England's.

This "clump of dry mud" is actually home to some of the most beautiful landscapes in the world.

The Great Barrier Reef: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/22/24577309_d996e50113.jpg

The Gold Coast: http://p.vtourist.com/1391947-Looking_South_down_the_Gold_Coast-Gold_Coast.gif

Uluru: http://www.muenster.org/abendgymnasium/faecherprojekte/projekte/aborigines/uluru50.jpg

We do speak English, and we use the correct English spelling.

You're obviously ignorant.

Howard=n00b

That's the most intelligent remark I've heard all day. :rolleyes:

What happened to Pauline Hanson? Did she contest this election and what has become of the One Nation Party, they seemed like a source of hope.

A pity Australia lacks a Ian Smith type figure to rescue the people from their political crisis.

Pauline Hanson is dead. I rolled her up in a carpet and through her off a bridge.

I know this is a bit of a sidebar to the main conversation, but it is absolutely ADORABLE reading what Australians have to say, much less hearing them. I think if I actually spoke face-to-face with a hot Australian girl I would probably pass out... (just had to throw that one out there)... I do enjoy reading about different nations' political systems here (<-USA), only on Nationstates.....

Haha, I'm a hot Australian girl!

*snip*Lol. You talk like a real Aussie. Why not apply for citizenship?*snip*

Touche.

If I'd lived in Australia at some point in the past three years I would've voted for Rudd. Despite him being hugely against gay marriage.

..I really don't know enough about Aussie politics to have a valid opinion on this. On the other hand, hooray, maybe there will be some better progress on environmental issues now.

I wish he was pro-gay marriage. At least he recognises that gay couples are in fact couples. Howard referred their relationships as "homosexual liasons". I suppose Rudd's religious beliefs "get in the way", but I still believe that there is no reason not to let loving gay couples marry.

The dream of Aus leadership Abbot and Costello is fading.

Not since Hawke v. Peacock has Aus politics had such an opportunity to be a world laughing stock.

So, for my final unprompted contribution to the thread, I suggest this:

Costello bails out, gets a job. Senator Barnaby Joyce moves from the Senate, runs for that safe seat in the by-election. Jeff Kennett comes out of retirement, taking that merchant-bankers safe seat, and Wilson "Iron Bar" Tucky moves on up to the Deputy Leadership.

Tell me this mob:

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc215/Nobel_Hobos/The_Coalition_Squad.jpg

... can't beat this mob:

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc215/Nobel_Hobos/The_Labor_Squad.jpg

The Coalition takes this little Christian nancy-boy back to school. OLD SCHOOL! Fist fights on the floor of Parliament! Members literally pissing in each others pockets! "Parliamentary language" reduced to four-letter words! Guns! In the Parliament!

Bring on the Old Boys.

:p HAH! Our Jules could take 'em all wif one hand tied behind her back!

Then Kevvie could give 'em a Sincere Talking-To.

I think they will spend big on Education -- by the next election Iraq and Workchoices will be gone.
Meh, I don't actually think throwing money at primary or even high schools is going to make that big a difference in economic terms. There are two agendas to be furthered by the modern education system: one is the economic need for more tradies and other skilled but non-academic jobs and the other is world-class universities. Neither is going to be helped by computers in school.

But maybe I'm just being selfish, since I've left school years ago and have no plans of going back, but money isn't really the answer (http://www.economist.com/world/international/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9989914) to getting schools to perform.

Iraq I am fairly neutral about, because it won't make much of a difference. And on Work Choices, I need to see how his alternative turns out - but then my politics aren't such that I'm naturally against people choosing the terms of their contracts themselves anyways. To me, industry-wide unions are cartels trying to monopolise a market. If a business does it, you have the ACCC all over it, but for unions it's somehow okay. I'd much prefer a seperate union for each employer, so they can actually deal with the issues that affect them.

Australia is one of the most heinous greenhouse emitters (per capita) and we have absolutely no excuse for it. I think there'll be stopgap measures like gas instead of coal electricity generation, and a bit more spending on research. And definitely no nuke plants.
As sad as this might sound, wind and solar isn't going to be good enough. So either you stick with coal or gas, or you pick the one technology that is actually efficient, reliable, proven and clean, which is nuclear. I didn't understand the anti-nuclear movement in Germany and I don't understand it here. Australia is made for it - we've got uranium deposits at home, huge empty stretches of land to build waste storage facilities in (pending the conditions of the soil and rock formations) and the spare cash and expertise to have it create domestic jobs as well.

Anyways, I guess there's nothing for it but to wait and see. But I think the reality that the ALP just isn't the Greens, that they aren't the sort of polar opposition I was going for on social issues, is already setting in. I'll end up judging Rudd on the quality of his policies moreso on just across-the-board rejection, but methinks the change we'll see won't be as great as many would have hoped.

If we are to have nuke plants, the main issue is they consume large amounts of water. Which means they'll probably have to be near or connected to main water sources, affecting local water supply. At the moment water supply isn't exactly reliable at all.

If we are to have nuke plants, the main issue is they consume large amounts of water. Which means they'll probably have to be near or connected to main water sources, affecting local water supply. At the moment water supply isn't exactly reliable at all.

So build it on the coast. The water needn't be fresh.

Congratulations, Australia. I wonder if mandatory elections have anything to do with this outcome.

EDIT: I've been reading about this on the BBC. What's a Bennelong, and why doesn't America have one?

(EDIT: Sorry, New Limacon, I hit the wrong button)

EDIT: I've been reading about this on the BBC. What's a Bennelong, and why doesn't America have one?

Bennelong is an electoral division.

So build it on the coast. The water needn't be fresh.
Can nuclear power plants use salt water? I doubt it somehow.

Bennelong (http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/barani/themes/theme7.htm).

In one story, he was a creator of songs and corroborees.

(This time, I hit the right button.)

Can nuclear power plants use salt water? I doubt it somehow.

The Israelis use their nuke plants to power desalination plant which are very hungry power users. So you'll end up with nuke and desal plant at the same time should you put one by the sea. This also means desal water would be rather expensive too.

Can nuclear power plants use salt water? I doubt it somehow.

Yeah, they can. It's slightly more expensive, because you need a larger flow-through (salt water having a lower boiling point than fresh, you need to use more of it) and you need to use salt-resistant pipes; other than that, since the water is only used in the tertiary cooling cycle, it isn't a problem.

We're not even going to start building nuke plants in this term of government, and they take quite a few years to build.

Nuclear power might be on the agenda for a future election. I'd want a referendum before going ahead with any new plants, and that's even before deciding where to put the damn things.

Sure, we can debate it but it's not going to happen anytime soon.

We're not even going to start building nuke plants in this term of government, and they take quite a few years to build.

Nuclear power might be on the agenda for a future election. I'd want a referendum before going ahead with any new plants, and that's even before deciding where to put the damn things.

Sure, we can debate it but it's not going to happen anytime soon.

Unfortunately true. Australia will continue to damage the environment and not even look at the sole rational solution.

We're not even going to start building nuke plants in this term of government, and they take quite a few years to build.

Nuclear power might be on the agenda for a future election. I'd want a referendum before going ahead with any new plants, and that's even before deciding where to put the damn things.

Sure, we can debate it but it's not going to happen anytime soon.

We'll get them but where they go is another issue. I doubt most Australians would want live too close to nuke plant or a nuke dump.

Tony Abbott speaking on Lateline, now. (10:30 AEST)

(Tony Abbott has pulled out (http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200711/r206161_785510.asx) of the Liberal leadership contest today)

He can be very blunt (revealing even) and this could be a good one to watch.

The show will appear here (http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/), though I don't think it goes live with the free-to-air Lateline. If someone has a link to watch it live, please do post it. I'll be watching it on my old analogue tube.

OK, sorry about that. The show has been on for fifteen minutes, and Abbott's interview isn't on yet.

The preview of the interview wasn't promising, Abbott was very defensive, very guarded.

OK, the interview is starting NOW.

Tony Abbott speaking on Lateline, now. (10:30 AEST)

(Tony Abbott has pulled out (http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200711/r206161_785510.asx) of the Liberal leadership contest today)

He can be very blunt (revealing even) and this could be a good one to watch.

The show will appear here (http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/), though I don't think it goes live with the free-to-air Lateline. If someone has a link to watch it live, please do post it. I'll be watching it on my old analogue tube.

Yeah I just watched it. I think electing Turnbull as party leader might be very divisive, Howard essentially ruled the party with his socially conservative iron fist, but putting a social progressive in leadership may fracture the right-wing factions.