NationStates Jolt Archive

I may be mistaken about a certain very important issue. Because I've been bashed for being intolerant, I've been called ignorant, and I've been called a bigot. And while those words have certainly lost some of their seriousness to people today, I still like to think that most Americans won't throw them around as if they're meaningless. Because of that, I won't bash anything anyone says here. I just need FACTS, please.

Does it or does it not state, explicitly, in the Koran, that it is the duty of all Muslims to kill infidels (that is, those who do not follow the Islamic faith)?
It is possible that I have read a bad translation. You can probably guess which side I've taken, based on the above paragraph, although I could, under some circumstances, be called a bigot either way. Anyway, I won't take any personal stance on this. I just want answers, which can be backed up and verified.
Thanks, please reply soon :)

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

Bible, for comparison.

read the Quran how you wish, its not like a mythical sky God is going to come down and debate the deep and profound meaning to words (because omnipotent beings/artists are like that)

also I want to hear more about your these sides you seem to be mentioning

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html

The disbelievers used to laugh at the believers. But the final laugh will be on them.

:p

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

Bible, for comparison.
"Cruelty and Violence" is the Koran and Bible isn't the same as advocating it, it just makes it a better read.

As for what the Koran says, I have heard from a Muslim scholar that jihad is hardly mentioned. Not only that, but the idea of "holy war" is not necessarily a real war, more like "The War on Drugs" than "The War on the Evil Americans."

"Whosoever killeth a human being ... it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind."

-- Koran, 5:32.

Does that answer your question?

The Qu'ran earges soldiers of faith to protect the lives of non-combatants, aged-ones, children and woman ad well as the life of imprisoned soldiers.

It's a holy book, so there is bound to be lots of stuff about how you have to kill people - most likely atheists, polytheists and homosexuals.

But I wouldn't take anyone's word for it on NSG since this place is filled with drippy theists who refuse to see that there might be anything wrong with these silly superstitions.

I suggest instead you visit a reputable centre of islamic learning - say the Green Lane Masjid - where you can hear directly from the horses mouth how they feel the koran instructs them to treat Kuffr (and gays).

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

Bible, for comparison.

Where does it say to kill people?

I may be mistaken about a certain very important issue. Because I've been bashed for being intolerant, I've been called ignorant, and I've been called a bigot. And while those words have certainly lost some of their seriousness to people today, I still like to think that most Americans won't throw them around as if they're meaningless. Because of that, I won't bash anything anyone says here. I just need FACTS, please.

Does it or does it not state, explicitly, in the Koran, that it is the duty of all Muslims to kill infidels (that is, those who do not follow the Islamic faith)?
It is possible that I have read a bad translation. You can probably guess which side I've taken, based on the above paragraph, although I could, under some circumstances, be called a bigot either way. Anyway, I won't take any personal stance on this. I just want answers, which can be backed up and verified.
Thanks, please reply soon :)

No, you are not a bigot, nor are you "reading a bad translation"; you are correct about the Koran. It DOES, in fact, state that Muslims are to kill all "infidels" that do not wish to convert to Islam.

Where does it say to kill people?

Well, there are some verses in the OLD Testament where God, or the leader of His people, instructed said people to kill certain other groups of people, but those were instructions for an Old Testament Jewish Theocracy, and they are NOT instructions for New Testament Christians.

Paul wrote, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness". In other words, we in the 21st Century can profit spiritually from all of the Bible, but not all of it applies to us as instructions for everyday behavior, for example, the part where God told Saul to "utterly destroy the Amalekites". We NT Christians are not to literally go out and kill people; OUR warfare is a SPIRITUAL one, NOT a physical one.

This is the only one I could find.

Book 2 (The Cow)

And fight in the way of God with those
who fight with you, but aggress not:
God loves not the aggressors.
And slay them wherever you come upon them,
and expel them from where they expelled you;
persecution is more grievous than slaying.
But fight them not by the Holy Mosque
until they should fight you there;
then, if they fight you, slay them-
such is the recompense of unbelievers-
but if they give over, surely God is
All-forgiving, All-compassionate.

This one seems to be saying that you should slay unbelievers, but it's prefaced by a warning against being the one to start the fight, so I'm not sure that's what you were looking for.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/

Do a search on your own if you like.

No, you are not a bigot, nor are you "reading a bad translation"; you are correct about the Koran. It DOES, in fact, state that Muslims are to kill all "infidels" that do not wish to convert to Islam.



Well, there are some verses in the OLD Testament where God, or the leader of His people, instructed said people to kill certain other groups of people, but those were instructions for an Old Testament Jewish Theocracy, and they are NOT instructions for New Testament Christians.

Paul wrote, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness". In other words, we in the 21st Century can profit spiritually from all of the Bible, but not all of it applies to us as instructions for everyday behavior, for example, the part where God told Saul to "utterly destroy the Amalekites". We NT Christians are not to literally go out and kill people; OUR warfare is a SPIRITUAL one, NOT a physical one.

Where in the Quran does it state this?

And I wasn't asking about the Bible, but the Quran.

This is the only one I could find.

Book 2 (The Cow)

And fight in the way of God with those
who fight with you, but aggress not:
God loves not the aggressors.
And slay them wherever you come upon them,
and expel them from where they expelled you;
persecution is more grievous than slaying.
But fight them not by the Holy Mosque
until they should fight you there;
then, if they fight you, slay them-
such is the recompense of unbelievers-
but if they give over, surely God is
All-forgiving, All-compassionate.

This one seems to be saying that you should slay unbelievers, but it's prefaced by a warning against being the one to start the fight, so I'm not sure that's what you were looking for.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/

Do a search on your own if you like.

That was my point, there wasn't one in there.

This is the only one I could find.

Book 2 (The Cow)

And fight in the way of God with those
who fight with you, but aggress not:
God loves not the aggressors.
And slay them wherever you come upon them,
and expel them from where they expelled you;
persecution is more grievous than slaying.
But fight them not by the Holy Mosque
until they should fight you there;
then, if they fight you, slay them-
such is the recompense of unbelievers-
but if they give over, surely God is
All-forgiving, All-compassionate.

This one seems to be saying that you should slay unbelievers, but it's prefaced by a warning against being the one to start the fight, so I'm not sure that's what you were looking for.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/

Do a search on your own if you like.

Your words are long and my ability to stay focused on them is non-existant.

Muslims are evil!

That was my point, there wasn't one in there.

I know. I'm just offering the evidence, as the OP requested.

Had I wanted to take a side, I could have mentioned that there are many, many mentions of unbelievers going to hell, and a few exhortations to treat them roughly.

Or I could have mentioned that the skeptics site takes the quote out of context in a rather convenient fashion for those who wish to portray Islam as a religion of violence.

But taking sides for or against Islam does not interest me. I'd much rather have folks decide for themselves.

Your words are long and my ability to stay focused on them is non-existant.

Muslims are evil!

Yes, it's hard to actually read the evidence. Poor DM. *pat pats*

How can Muslims be required to kill all non Muslims when they've lived with people of other faiths throughout it’s history

I may be mistaken about a certain very important issue. Because I've been bashed for being intolerant, I've been called ignorant, and I've been called a bigot. And while those words have certainly lost some of their seriousness to people today, I still like to think that most Americans won't throw them around as if they're meaningless. Because of that, I won't bash anything anyone says here. I just need FACTS, please.

Does it or does it not state, explicitly, in the Koran, that it is the duty of all Muslims to kill infidels (that is, those who do not follow the Islamic faith)?
It is possible that I have read a bad translation. You can probably guess which side I've taken, based on the above paragraph, although I could, under some circumstances, be called a bigot either way. Anyway, I won't take any personal stance on this. I just want answers, which can be backed up and verified.
Thanks, please reply soon :)
Here's one:
"Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.)" 2:191-2

"Whosoever killeth a human being ... it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind."

-- Koran, 5:32.

Does that answer your question?

ummm I'm confused now, I thought they beleived in purgin infidels. :confused:

ummm I'm confused now, I thought they beleived in purgin infidels. :confused:

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/

Look for yourself. Do a simple search for the term "unbelievers" and see what comes up.

This is awsome

This is from the bible link
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

An "angel of the Lord" kills 185,000 men while they sleep. "And when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses." I guess they all woke up and said, "Shucks, I'm dead." 19:35

Is it right that I find entertainment value in the sadism of the bible/koran?

edit: Yes I do realize that source is obviously biased and I don't have anything against Christians/Muslims