NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7104552.stm


Thoughts?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7104552.stm


Thoughts?

I hope he's actually dead before they bury him and not just in a coma.

*shrug*

so thats why Ian Duncan Smith emphasizes the Duncan part

so thats why Ian Duncan Smith emphasizes the Duncan part

Ian Douglas Smith.


And people, can we please be serious? I was hoping for an intelligent discussion on Smith's legacy, whether it was good, bad, in between, etc.

Ian Douglas Smith.


And people, can we please be serious? I was hoping for an intelligent discussion on Smith's legacy, whether it was good, bad, in between, etc.

He was a scuz bucket leader in a land known for it's scuz bucket leaders. He wasn't the scuzziest scuz bucket, and that's to his credit. But he's still a scuz bucket.

Well, not anymore. :p

Ian Douglas Smith.

no Duncan

http://www.supportforafrica.org/images/okpic3.jpg

And people, can we please be serious? I was hoping for an intelligent discussion on Smith's legacy, whether it was good, bad, in between, etc.

oh it was bad the current regime in Zimbabwe is of a direct reaction to the previous rule and so the idea that Zimbabweans would be better off is silly

who?

The former prime minister of Rhodesia

oh...who cares...

someone mind telling me what's there to celebrate about the passing of one of Africa's few leaders with any moral clarity whatsoever?

who?


oh...who cares...

Ask the thousands of Ndebele who have been massacred by the 5th Brigade

Ask the millions of starving men, women, and children

Ask the thousands rotting in Mugabe's prisons

Ask the thousands of whites expelled simply because of their race

Smith was certainly better than the current tyrant, no?

Ask the thousands of Ndebele who have been massacred by the 5th Brigade

Ask the millions of starving men, women, and children

Ask the thousands rotting in Mugabe's prisons

Ask the thousands of whites expelled simply because of their race

Smith was certainly better than the current tyrant, no?

Yep.

Smith was no saint. He was a racist, short tempered, and apparently a pain in the ass to work with; and he almost certainly knew of the use of bioweapons against the rebel-occupied areas of Rhodesia, which could reasonably be called a war crime.

But under his rule Rhodesia developed a strong economy, fed it's people, and, in the end, it was under his aegis that majority rule did finally occur. That's a hell of a lot better than Mugabe has managed.

Yep.

Smith was no saint. He was a racist, short tempered, and apparently a pain in the ass to work with; and he almost certainly knew of the use of bioweapons against the rebel-occupied areas of Rhodesia, which could reasonably be called a war crime.

But under his rule Rhodesia developed a strong economy, fed it's people, and, in the end, it was under his aegis that majority rule did finally occur. That's a hell of a lot better than Mugabe has managed.

However, its through the example of him and men like him that African conceptions of "Modern" European Government were born. Putting ones own "tribe" first. Self-enrichment at the cost of the majority. Violence to secure power.

Lets remember Ian with a song.....
"I was reading in New Zealand about Ian Smith
I was thinking they were lucky to be rid of that shit."
linky (http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Boomtown-Rats/Another-Piece-Of-Red.html)

However, its through the example of him and men like him that African conceptions of "Modern" European Government were born. Putting ones own "tribe" first. Self-enrichment at the cost of the majority. Violence to secure power.

Lets remember Ian with a song.....

linky (http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Boomtown-Rats/Another-Piece-Of-Red.html)

What bloody tribe? he ran the country for the country - not for a 'tribe' - there were blacks who went form South African to Rhodesia; thats telling you something about the state of affairs in the country.

Poor, poor country. Douchebag government upon douchebag government.

I knew that name from somewhere, but thought it was the guy who wrote James Bond...:rolleyes: and not some jerkoff...

He was a scuz bucket leader in a land known for it's scuz bucket leaders. He wasn't the scuzziest scuz bucket, and that's to his credit. But he's still a scuz bucket.

Well, not anymore. :p

In a sense, he kicked the scuz bucket.

Smith was trying to make the best of a bad situation. Britain was pushing him for majority rule as soon as possible, but the fact of the matter was that it couldn't be done without a drop in standards. Indeed, Britain had promised Rhodesia independence as early as 1961 but they refused to grant it to them--so really, what options did he have?

Smith was trying to make the best of a bad situation. Britain was pushing him for majority rule as soon as possible, but the fact of the matter was that it couldn't be done without a drop in standards. Indeed, Britain had promised Rhodesia independence as early as 1961 but they refused to grant it to them--so really, what options did he have?

Easy, for the 'black majority' to look around at Africa and realise they had it pretty sweet compared to the third world shit holes in the region.

Smith was bad, but compared to many other African leaders, he was an enlightened despot. I just hope he died peacefully, repentent of what he did.

I think he deserves a little respect. After all, he maintained a high level of prosperity in Rhodesia even with the sanctions. Under his rule, Rhodesia was the highest agriculture producing country in Africa, and the people weren't treated nearly as bad as under his successor. I think the reason he didn't want to give Blacks the balance of power was because he knew what would end up happening: Mugabe and all his crazy escapades. I still have family in Zimbabwe, and I sure hope they get the hell out of there.
R.I.P. Mr. Smith.

Rather hard to read some of the comments. I can only believe some people really think that death, starvation, ecological disaster, and racial mongering are good things for a nation. Smith played the hand he was deal with dignity and honor. He was truthful and fair and had the British and US Governments even tried to help make a reasonable transition Rhodesia/Zimbabwe would be a totally different country today.

My condolences, Ian Smith, R.I.P.

One of these days Pervez Musharraf is going to get tossed out of Pakistan (or shot, or blown to bits) by a radical Islamist regime that he helped create by stifling and jackbooting the moderate opposition. Whenever he kicks it, people will condemn the new regime and claim "Musharraf did the best he could" or somesuch rubbish that completely ignores his role in polarizing the country.

Ian Smith? Same sh*t, different pile.

Ian Smith was a god among men compared to his contemporaries.

The boycotts of Rhodesia and South Africa were just more proof of the racist hypocrisy and political bias of the UN and it's minion organizations.

Now of course it's all about Israel.

What bloody tribe?

The white people. The priveleged minority. Those ones.

Mugabe being worse by no means absolves Smith.

The white people. The priveleged minority. Those ones.

They did a pretty bloody good job given what the alternative is today.

Smith is responsible for Mugabe?

Can't we at least give Mr. Mugabe credit for his own actions? Can't we accept that a black man can think for himself?

Mugabe is certainly worse than Smith, and incompetent.

They did a pretty bloody good job given what the alternative is today.

They were scum. The fact that Mugabe is also Scum doesnt let them off the hook one iota.

[QUOTE=E Guano;13233215]Can't we accept that a black man can think for himself?[QUOTE]
That's a very odd thing to say.

People aren't arguing that Mugabe is some mindless clone, but that the actions of his predecessor led to him.

So Mugabe isn't responsible brcause of the actions of a predecessor? What kind of contorted thinking is that? So Bush isn't responsible for the invasion of Iraq because someone (Clinton, Bush the Elder, or maybe Nixon) screwed up?

The difference between Smith and whatever is happening in Pakistan is that Smith very clearly told the world what would happen if the transition was not managed with some care. And he was right. The British Government stood by while intimidation and worse took place before and during the first "majority" rule vote. What is even sadder is that the USA and RSA stood by as well.

Now the US is reaping the seeds it sowed of supporting "guerilla" warfare, although now they are "terrorists" since they are attacking the USA. I have a signed letter from the US Embassy in Pretoria that clearly states that the shooting down of an Air Rhodesia aircraft and the slaughter of the survivors was a sad but understandable outcome of "the situation" in Rhodesia. The RSA is gradually following the Rhodesia/Zimbabwe pattern of racial division by tribe and party.

Some people and some governments just never learn...

The boycotts of Rhodesia and South Africa were just more proof of the racist hypocrisy and political bias of the UN and it's minion organizations.

your calling the U.N racist for boycotting racist governments...

So Mugabe isn't responsible brcause of the actions of a predecessor? What kind of contorted thinking is that?

clever thinking you don't just appear at the present there is a road to it

if there had been racial harmony in Rhodesia Mugabe would of never gotten to power

if there had been racial harmony in Rhodesia Mugabe would of never gotten to power

Indeed, a Mugabe was inevitable, in the same way that a Hitler was an inevitability of the aftermath of WWI.

Did I just pull off a legitimate Godwin?

I don't know enough about him to make a judgement with any authority, however, neither do most posters here. The majority of whom, no doubt, will scream "racist", throw some Guatamalan peace crisps at their computer screens and pillory the nasty, dastardly colonials for all of Africa's ills.

Yes, the UN is racist for boycotting then white controlled nations who are perceived to be repressing minorities, yet do nothing about Zimbabwe engaging in the same practices or the countless other nations who repress people in far worse conditions. They were targeted because the leaders were white, not because conditions were so much worse than anywhere else. In fact, they were the two most stable and free nations in Africa.

The only nation that was reprimanded by the UN racism meeting or whatever was Israel. Out of the entire world, that's it.

Racist hypocrisy is the only way to describe it.

My friend's dad is a Bush War vet.

Too bad he died. One of like three countries in Africa that didn't suck at the time.

Hopefully Mugabe will croak soon. He looks way too youthful for an 83 year old.

They were scum. The fact that Mugabe is also Scum doesnt let them off the hook one iota.

Exactly. Ian Smith was an ultra-conservative racist jackass. I hope he died in pain.

The majority of whom, no doubt, will scream “racist”, throw some Guatamalan peace crisps at their computer screens and pillory the nasty, dastardly colonials for all of Africa’s ills.
Or we could recognise a government that favoured one skin colour over another, eat some Frazzles and note that although corruption and power struggles have buggered Africa, colonialism didn’t exactly help.

Ever thought about journalism Chris? There's a number of red-topped papers who'd put your hyperbole to use.

Thought it meant Ian Smith the NZ cricketer, but false alarm lol

Just a politician who had lived a long, full life and whose time was up.

Mugabe is a great hero and consistent Marxist-Leninist in his struggle to rid imperialist capitalist influence from Zimbabwe. Hail to him!

Mugabe is a great hero and consistent Marxist-Leninist in his struggle to rid imperialist capitalist influence from Zimbabwe. Hail to him!

Evidently you didn't see this post:

And people, can we please be serious? I was hoping for an intelligent discussion on Smith's legacy, whether it was good, bad, in between, etc.

Please, take your trolling elsewhere.