NationStates Jolt Archive

It's a states issue! :D God Republicans crack me up, good thing too, cause the Dems just make me sad.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/18/romney.beck/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney said this week that if elected president he would punish states that provide illegal immigrants with tuition breaks or those that issue them driver's licenses.

As president, Romney told Headline News talk show host Glenn Beck, he would reduce federal highway funds to any state that issued driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.

The former Massachusetts governor got in a dig at GOP rival former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee while explaining his view on tuition breaks for undocumented workers.

"If you have a state like Mike Huckabee's state in Arkansas that fights to give people a tuition break if they're an illegal in their state, you say, 'no, you're not going to do that,' " Romney explained. "If you do that, we're going to cut back on higher education funding."

Huckabee has disputed similar claims. In an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer earlier this month, Huckabee said, "You don't punish a child for the crime of a parent." Huckabee added that the Arkansas tuition program also required illegal immigrants to apply for citizenship.

In a similar vein, Romney repeated his attacks on former Mayor Rudy Giuliani, calling New York City a "sanctuary city," and promising as president, he would reduce federal funding to such cities.

During the interview, the White House hopeful defended the health care plan he implemented as governor of Massachusetts as anything but the "road to socialism."

Romney also promised that as president he would push to have the United States "entirely" independent of foreign oil within 20 years. That plan includes building more nuclear power plants and using more liquefied coal with sequestered carbon dioxide.

"Once we let the world know we're committed, the worldwide markets are going to change because America is going to be on a pathway to getting itself off of foreign oil," said Romney, a Harvard MBA who was a successful businessman before entering politics

On the economic front, Romney told Beck he would make President Bush's tax cuts permanent, institute a tax-free savings plan for middle-income Americans, and get rid of the estate tax. Asked about the subprime mortgage mess, Romney explained that "the credit crisis is something which could spread throughout our economy," adding, "I hope it does not."
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Beck declared Romney's Mormon faith off-limits, starting the interview: "I've decided that as soon as the rest of the media asks Sen[s.] [Orrin] Hatch [R-Utah] and Harry Reid [D-Nevada] when they're going to give a speech on Mormonism and how it affects their job, I'll ask you that question. In the meantime, why don't we talk actual issues."

Beck, himself Mormon, joined the church and embarked on a career in talk radio following a bout with alcoholism and drug addiction, according to his online bio.

Mike "Chuck Norris" Huckabee is getting in on the same sort of action.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21880014/

WASHINGTON - Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee rejects letting states decide whether to allow abortions, claiming the right to life is a moral issue not subject to multiple interpretations.

"It's the logic of the Civil War," Huckabee said Sunday, comparing abortion rights to slavery. "If morality is the point here, and if it's right or wrong, not just a political question, then you can't have 50 different versions of what's right and what's wrong."

"For those of us for whom this is a moral question, you can't simply have 50 different versions of what's right," he said in an interview on "Fox News Sunday."

The former Arkansas governor, who has drawn within striking distance of Mitt Romney in Iowa's leadoff presidential caucuses, said he was taken aback by the National Right to Life Committee's recent endorsement of Fred Thompson, the ex-Tennessee senator.

"But my surprise was nothing compared to the surprise of people across America who had been faithful supporters of right to life," said Huckabee, who is challenging Thompson's claim that he is the most reliable conservative in the GOP field.

"Fred's never had a 100 percent record on right to life in his Senate career. The records reflect that. And he doesn't support the human life amendment which is most amazing because that's been a part of the Republican platform since 1980," Huckabee said.

In a separate interview aired Sunday, Thompson said Roe v. Wade, the landmark Supreme Court decision allowing legal abortion, should be overturned, with states allowed to decide whether to permit abortions. "We need to remember what the status was before Roe v. Wade," he said.

Thompson spokeswomen Karen Hanretty said Thompson has a very strong record on abortion. The National Right to Life Committee said when it endorsed him that Thompson "has had a strong, consistent pro-life voting record throughout his political career."

Huckabee on TV
Huckabee also previewed his first television ad of the campaign on the program. The 60-second spot, which features actor Chuck Norris, was to begin running in Iowa on Monday.

"My plan to secure the border. Two words: Chuck. Norris," says Huckabee, who stares into the camera before it cuts away to show Norris standing beside him.

"Mike Huckabee is a lifelong hunter who'll protect our Second Amendment rights" on gun ownership, says the tough-guy actor, who takes turns addressing viewers.

"There's no chin behind Chuck Norris' beard, only another fist," Huckabee says.

"Mike Huckabee wants to put the IRS out of business," Norris adds.

"When Chuck Norris does a push-up, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the earth down," Huckabee says.

"Mike's a principled, authentic conservative," says Norris.

In closing, Huckabee says: "Chuck Norris doesn't endorse. He tells America how it's going to be. I'm Mike Huckabee and I approved this message. So did Chuck."

Huckabee acknowledged that the ad probably will not change many minds.

"But what it does do is exactly what it's doing this morning," he said. "Getting a lot of attention, driving people to our Web site, giving them an opportunity to find out who is this guy that would come out with Chuck Norris in a commercial."

Thompson's campaign said the ad shows Huckabee is not serious about immigration, an issue in Iowa.

"With his new campaign ad featuring Chuck Norris, Mike Huckabee has confused celebrity endorsement with serious policy. What would Huckabee do to secure America's border against millions of illegal immigrants pouring into our country? According to his ad, 'Two words: Chuck Norris,'" said Thompson campaign spokesman Todd Harris.

Thompson was interviewed by ABC's "This Week."

Drivers licenses, yes, tuition breaks, no, at least if the breaks are being provided because they're here in an undocumented fashion. In which case they ought to get a student visa and be here in a documented fashion.

Did I convey my message there? That they ought to get their student visa, then get the requisite tuition breaks that a student from "abroad" would get?

Drivers licenses, yes, tuition breaks, no, at least if the breaks are being provided because they're here in an undocumented fashion. In which case they ought to get a student visa and be here in a documented fashion.

Did I convey my message there? That they ought to get their student visa, then get the requisite tuition breaks that a student from "abroad" would get?

State schools have 2 levels of tuition - state residents (subsidized by the state) and out of state residents (not subsidized, or rather not directly subsidized). Illegal residents, not being legal residents of the state in question, must pay the non-subsidized tuition rate unless they are given a special exemption.

Basically, by giving illegal immigrants subsidized tuition, an illegal immigrant would pay less to go to University of Maryland than a citizen from Ohio would have to pay.

Drivers licenses, yes, tuition breaks, no, at least if the breaks are being provided because they're here in an undocumented fashion. In which case they ought to get a student visa and be here in a documented fashion.

Did I convey my message there? That they ought to get their student visa, then get the requisite tuition breaks that a student from "abroad" would get?

Why get either? why doesn't the US operate like any other country; if you come through the front door, you'll be welcomed with open arms. If you come through the back door, say hello to a jail cell.

You think that any other country just gives out things like the above? you have to earn that right, you have to come in legally. If you're not there legally, you don't get squat.

Why is anyone having this debate what part if ILLEAGAL do you not understand.

Why get either? why doesn't the US operate like any other country; if you come through the front door, you'll be welcomed with open arms. If you come through the back door, say hello to a jail cell.

You think that any other country just gives out things like the above? you have to earn that right, you have to come in legally. If you're not there legally, you don't get squat.

Some actually do, see Sweden.

Some actually do, see Sweden.

That Scandinavia for you; if there were raping and pillaging mobs going through Europe they would remove their clothes to make things a little easier on those 'poor uneducated savages'.

what a xenophobe...

Mike "Chuck Norris" Huckabee is getting in on the same sort of action.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21880014/

Holy crap, really? Using the Chuck Norris thing for a presidential campaign? He doesn't have anyone on staff that can explain ironic appreciation to him? This might top the whole 'Where's the Beef?' thing...

Why is anyone having this debate what part if ILLEAGAL do you not understand.

Well considering "ILLEAGAL" isn't a word it's fairly hard to understand.

Maybe our national bird is sick?

Damned DDT!

Well considering "ILLEAGAL" isn't a word it's fairly hard to understand.

Maybe our national bird is sick?

what a xenophobe...

How am I a xenophobe? - do you even know what the hell a Xenophobe is?!

someone afraid of xylophones?

Why get either? why doesn't the US operate like any other country; if you come through the front door, you'll be welcomed with open arms. If you come through the back door, say hello to a jail cell.

You think that any other country just gives out things like the above? you have to earn that right, you have to come in legally. If you're not there legally, you don't get squat.

The problem is that in the US the door is guarded by beurocrats weilding +4 forms of obliteration.

Let's face it - when immigrants are faced with the choice of coming in the 'legal' way or risking their life crossing the desert on foot the 'illegal' way - it is a sad day when crossing the desert on foot is the easy way...

The problem is that in the US the door is guarded by beurocrats weilding +4 forms of obliteration.

Let's face it - when immigrants are faced with the choice of coming in the 'legal' way or risking their life crossing the desert on foot the 'illegal' way - it is a sad day when crossing the desert on foot is the easy way...

How so - if I desired moving to the US (which I don't btw) it is just a matter of visiting the US Embassy - and signing the appropriate forms.

The US not wanting unskilled, cannot speak/understand english, criminal people from third world shitholes - there is something wrong with that?

How so - if I desired moving to the US (which I don't btw) it is just a matter of visiting the US Embassy - and signing the appropriate forms.

The US not wanting unskilled, cannot speak/understand english, criminal people from third world shitholes - there is something wrong with that?

Not that I can see. For a non-american you grasp this very well.

How so - if I desired moving to the US (which I don't btw) it is just a matter of visiting the US Embassy - and signing the appropriate forms.

That is beautifully naive. It is apparent that you have never actually tried to immigrate permanently to the states nor do you know anyone who has. If it were as simple as that then illegal immigration would not be such a popular option.


The US not wanting unskilled, cannot speak/understand english, criminal people from third world shitholes - there is something wrong with that?

english is not a requirement for immigration. Job skills have little to do with it also. I only wish that the only people held up by the immigration process were criminals.

I find it ironic that the same people who believe that 'big government is the problem and not the answer' are the same people who want to create an even bigger, more powerful (and less accountable) beurocracy out of the immigration fiasco.

That is beautifully naive. It is apparent that you have never actually tried to immigrate permanently to the states nor do you know anyone who has. If it were as simple as that then illegal immigration would not be such a popular option.



english is not a requirement for immigration. Job skills have little to do with it also. I only wish that the only people held up by the immigration process were criminals.

I find it ironic that the same people who believe that 'big government is the problem and not the answer' are the same people who want to create an even bigger, more powerful (and less accountable) beurocracy out of the immigration fiasco.

I liked what kinky freidman said, "work hard, learn English, keep out of trouble - and you're more than welcome to come to America" - that has been philosophy.

I do find it interesting that these 'gringo hating Mexicans' love America so much they parade around with Mexican flags flying in the air. Anyone explain that contradiction?

Not that I can see. For a non-american you grasp this very well.

Thats how NZ operates; learn english, have a skill, utilise that skill and voila, residency. You'll be surprised how many egg heads consider that 'tough going'.

I liked what kinky freidman said, "work hard, learn English, keep out of trouble - and you're more than welcome to come to America" - that has been philosophy.
but they aren't - that's the problem. Unless - if you mean by 'welcome' being told they must fill out 50 forms in triplicate, wait three years, do it again because someone lost the originals, wait another three years, then get in.

I do find it interesting that these 'gringo hating Mexicans' love America so much they parade around with Mexican flags flying in the air. Anyone explain that contradiction?

Not sure how holding a mexican flag makes someone a 'gringo hater'... Is it also true if someone holds an Irish flag? Italian? Confeterate?

How so - if I desired moving to the US (which I don't btw) it is just a matter of visiting the US Embassy - and signing the appropriate forms.
I guess that means you're shit outta luck if there's no diplomatic mission. Or can't read english. Or there's a civil war. Or if there's a 3-5 year wait. Whoops, I knew I should've applied before that war!

The US not wanting unskilled, cannot speak/understand english, criminal people from third world shitholes - there is something wrong with that?
Thanks to certain criminal/immoral historical figures with hardline attitudes such as yours towards peoples of other nationalities, some of these places have become what you describe as "shitholes". Even when immigrants are skilled, people will still complain for taking "their" jobs. Sometimes you just gotta have a lil' compassion and understanding - just how is a "shithole" mum and her kids going to constitute "skilled labour" anyway?

Not sure how holding a mexican flag makes someone a 'gringo hater'... Is it also true if someone holds an Irish flag? Italian? Confeterate?

Evidently you have not seen the riots...

but they aren't - that's the problem. Unless - if you mean by 'welcome' being told they must fill out 50 forms in triplicate, wait three years, do it again because someone lost the originals, wait another three years, then get in.

If I remember correctly, you also have to pay a hefty fee if you come from an "undesirable" country like Mexico. Less if you're Canadian or one of the more desirable countries.

I liked what kinky freidman said, "work hard, learn English, keep out of trouble - and you're more than welcome to come to America" - that has been philosophy.

I do find it interesting that these 'gringo hating Mexicans' love America so much they parade around with Mexican flags flying in the air. Anyone explain that contradiction?

As a limey immigrant to the US... you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.... the time, the huge amounts of money, the constant applications for certain 'permissions', the prohibitions on being able to enter/exit the state, the monitoring, the restrictions...

...and I'm from a supposedly 'friend' nation, and married to a citizen, and with US citizen children...

If it were easy, cheap... attainable... there'd be much less illegal immigration.

Also.... there's the whole 'poor and huddled masses' thing. The US is an immigration nation. It didn't start to really embrace this softporn-fascism until it started it's 'war on communism'.

As a limey immigrant to the US... you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.... the time, the huge amounts of money, the constant applications for certain 'permissions', the prohibitions on being able to enter/exit the state, the monitoring, the restrictions...

...and I'm from a supposedly 'friend' nation, and married to a citizen, and with US citizen children...

If it were easy, cheap... attainable... there'd be much less illegal immigration.

Also.... there's the whole 'poor and huddled masses' thing. The US is an immigration nation. It didn't start to really embrace this softporn-fascism until it started it's 'war on communism'.

Its a different world, we no longer have need for a large population boom. And anyway if the U.S is just a facist stink hole like you communists say, why come here?

Its a different world, we no longer have need for a large population boom. And anyway if the U.S is just a facist stink hole like you communists say, why come here?

Because you still market it as "the land of the free and opportunity" you (America) scam artist.

Besides, if you no longer need the population, where are the hordes of Americans doing work in the orchards, the baggers, the street sweepers, the house cleaning services? Why are they sitting around on their behinds blaming the immigrants when they could be, you know, competing?

You just like to live off the backs of the illegal immigrants while casting your hate on them. America's new almost slaves.

Its a different world, we no longer have need for a large population boom. And anyway if the U.S is just a facist stink hole like you communists say, why come here?

Did you take down the Statue of Liberty, while I wasn't looking? Don't think so... Indeed, the US still attempts to perpetuate that 'liberty' image, from what I can see.

Land of the free, home of the brave... with liberty and justice for all.

Yeah - for all who can afford it. For all those of the right 'race'. 'Our kind' of people.

As for the 'need' for a population boom... the US has something like 300 miliion citizens... in an area of something like 10 million square kilometers. For comparison - the UK has about 61 million citizens (about one-fifth of the US population) in about 240 thousand square kilometers.

It's not that there is a 'need' for a population boom.. but it's also not like the US is crammed to the gills.

By 'you communists'... do you mean 'the English'? Immigrants collectively? It doesn't seem to make sense, that I can see.

Because you still market it as "the land of the free and opportunity" you (America) scam artist.

Besides, if you no longer need the population, where are the hordes of Americans doing work in the orchards, the baggers, the street sweepers, the house cleaning services? Why are they sitting around on their behinds blaming the immigrants when they could be, you know, competing?

You just like to live off the backs of the illegal immigrants while casting your hate on them. America's new almost slaves.

I would change that if I could, but im not the president or a senator and most americans are to lazy about politics to care, so what can I do?

By 'you communists'... do you mean 'the English'? Immigrants collectively? It doesn't seem to make sense, that I can see.

Hmmm from one of your earlier comments I thought you were a communist I guess I was mistaken.

I broke a glass when I read that New York City was a "sanctuary city." I seriously flipped out.

I'm so pissed.

No, pissed doesn't describe it. OMG.

I broke a glass when I read that New York City was a "sanctuary city." I seriously flipped out.

I'm so pissed.

No, pissed doesn't describe it. OMG.

Are you upset bcause you wish it wernt or what?

I would change that if I could, but im not the president or a senator and most americans are to lazy about politics to care, so what can I do?

So you just sit on your behind, rail against illegals, and do nothing that might actually solve the problem.

So you just sit on your behind, rail against illegals, and do nothing that might actually solve the problem.

No, not really but if thats how you want to read it more's the fool you.

Edit: I cant really Do anything other than vote, but I do a few ideas to solve it.

No, not really but if thats how you want to read it more's the fool you.

Either you are either doing something about it, or you are not. It's a yes/no question. You have already answered no.


Edit: I cant really Do anything other than vote, but I do a few ideas to solve it.

Like?

No, not really but if thats how you want to read it more's the fool you.

Edit: I cant really Do anything other than vote, but I do a few ideas to solve it.

Why can't you 'do' anything?

What's stopping you forming a grassroots organisation to present what you consider as 'the solution'? What's stopping you joining and being active? Why are you even here - why not out chaining yourself to mexicans or something?

Of course, the easiest way to actually address the 'illegal immigration' problem... would be to make it all legal...

If the US people elect another GOP candidate then you are truly past the point of saving as a country, we may as well just let you rot in that superstitious, ignorant hole you call a country.

but they aren't - that's the problem. Unless - if you mean by 'welcome' being told they must fill out 50 forms in triplicate, wait three years, do it again because someone lost the originals, wait another three years, then get in.

I don't see it occur in New Zealand; sure, we have Tongan's, Samoan's, Nuian, etc. etc. and when there is the Rugby Sevens they get out their flag and support their home nation - but I don't see them going around making out that they're some sort of seperate entity. They call themselves New Zealanders/Kiwi's - regardless of where they're from.

Not sure how holding a mexican flag makes someone a 'gringo hater'... Is it also true if someone holds an Irish flag? Italian? Confeterate?

Excuse me, learn to read, I said their gringo hating *AND* flag waving, I never said that one caused the other, I never said one was dependent on another. The issue I have is when there is vile spewed towards the US by South American countries but when it comes to actually wanting to make a decent living, they're quite happy to tone it down, suck in their pride and move to the US.

Me? I have Irish and Scottish blood - should I parade up and down main street with a Irish or/and Scottish flag? of course not! I'm a New Zealand - ignoring the fact I wouldn't wave a flag in the first place, but if I were so inclined, I'd wave a New Zealand or the black flag with the white kiwi on it.

As a limey immigrant to the US... you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.... the time, the huge amounts of money, the constant applications for certain 'permissions', the prohibitions on being able to enter/exit the state, the monitoring, the restrictions...

Who said I supported bureaucracy gone mad? I support immigration, but it should be done through the front door, and it shouldn't be so pathetically complicated that people throw up their hands in grief and look for alternative means.

Why is anyone having this debate what part if ILLEAGAL do you not understand.

is someone not missing the point that laws are created by people, and these are people who create laws debating what laws to create?

=^^=
.../\...

If I remember correctly, you also have to pay a hefty fee if you come from an "undesirable" country like Mexico. Less if you're Canadian or one of the more desirable countries.

That is incorrect.

Who said I supported bureaucracy gone mad? I support immigration, but it should be done through the front door, and it shouldn't be so pathetically complicated that people throw up their hands in grief and look for alternative means.

Which is what is happening in the US now. Most people want to vomply with laws - but as the laws become more and more difficult to comply with you get more law evaders. Once a critical mass is reached - the law is ignored and no amount of enforecement will change that...

If the US people elect another GOP candidate then you are truly past the point of saving as a country, we may as well just let you rot in that superstitious, ignorant hole you call a country.

Hopefully so, we don't need your meddlesome interferance.

That Scandinavia for you; if there were raping and pillaging mobs going through Europe they would remove their clothes to make things a little easier on those 'poor uneducated savages'.

Do you have any scientific evidence to back that up?

Do you have any scientific evidence to back that up?

Go there - its like watching sheep being herded by the government - perish the though of actually thinking for one self. Then again, I guess several decades of welfare state have castrated a people to mindless drones.

Go there - its like watching sheep being herded by the government - perish the though of actually thinking for one self. Then again, I guess several decades of welfare state have castrated a people to mindless drones.

That's funny.

You equate castration with mindless....

I lolled.

Do you have any scientific evidence to back that up?

I really don't need scientific evidence to know that coitus of any form is easier without clothing on...

That's funny.

You equate castration with mindless....

I lolled.

I lol because you can't even read, I said: "welfare state have castrated a people to mindless drones"

castrated referring to their brains.

Dear god, read and use your brain - or is this an example of the welfare state on your brain - handing over thinking to the 'all knowing government'.

I lol because you can't even read, I said: "welfare state have castrated a people to mindless drones"

castrated referring to their brains.

Dear god, read and use your brain - or is this an example of the welfare state on your brain - handing over thinking to the 'all knowing government'.

Uh, right. On what are you basing your accusations? You're basically saying that Scandinavians are stoopid stoopids and can't use their brainz, even though they have very high literacy rates, schools of relatively high standard (Oh Em Gee, unlike in the US, the schools are of the same high standard practically EVERYWHERE, as they don't have to actually compete over the money they are going to get and such and such)... And so forth. Sure, Scandinavians pay high taxes, but they get a lot in return: Schooling, health care, pensions, policing, public works, fire departments, public transportation and so on and so on. Not to mention that they have quite low corruption.

You know, in Scandinavia they have these things called "parliaments" and supposedly democratic elections where they get to choose from not ONE, not TWO, not even THREE, but from a MULTITUDE of parties with different agendas (this means that you don't have to choose between this right wing nutjob here, or the right wing nutjob standing next to him - and vice versa on lefties). Unlike in the US of A, where you have a two party system, where you can choose between this Republican who's extreme right or this Democrat who is also extreme right, just with a slight twist. How does that translate to "handing over thinking to the 'all knowing government'", when they can actually change their leadership if the current one isn't to their liking anymore? And unlike in the US of A, they also don't have this one guy who gets to choose whether they go leeroying in some wasteland or not.

I guess the biggest problem you have with Scandinavia is that they don't whine about their governments more in places that you inhabit. But that's the thing: Why would you whine about the government in foreign forums when you can do it in national ones (you know, ones where they use their native tongue rather than English)? I mean, seriously, if you lived in a country that's at peace, and isn't affecting the entire world when it chooses to do stupid things, and isn't a country where English is the native tongue... Would YOU go off whining about things to people who have NO IDEA what you're talking about, and probably don't care, either?

I'm guessing you're just trolling the Scandinavians because someone from one of those countries has accused you of having a small dick. :|

(And if one of you guys find typos from my text and get an urge to point it out, I'm just gonna say right now that I'm ill (flu) and I don't really care. :p)

Hopefully so, we don't need your meddlesome interferance.


How about you stop meddling with the rest of the world first ?

Uh, right. On what are you basing your accusations? You're basically saying that Scandinavians are stoopid stoopids and can't use their brainz, even though they have very high literacy rates, schools of relatively high standard (Oh Em Gee, unlike in the US, the schools are of the same high standard practically EVERYWHERE, as they don't have to actually compete over the money they are going to get and such and such)... And so forth. Sure, Scandinavians pay high taxes, but they get a lot in return: Schooling, health care, pensions, policing, public works, fire departments, public transportation and so on and so on. Not to mention that they have quite low corruption.

You know, in Scandinavia they have these things called "parliaments" and supposedly democratic elections where they get to choose from not ONE, not TWO, not even THREE, but from a MULTITUDE of parties with different agendas (this means that you don't have to choose between this right wing nutjob here, or the right wing nutjob standing next to him - and vice versa on lefties). Unlike in the US of A, where you have a two party system, where you can choose between this Republican who's extreme right or this Democrat who is also extreme right, just with a slight twist. How does that translate to "handing over thinking to the 'all knowing government'", when they can actually change their leadership if the current one isn't to their liking anymore? And unlike in the US of A, they also don't have this one guy who gets to choose whether they go leeroying in some wasteland or not.

I guess the biggest problem you have with Scandinavia is that they don't whine about their governments more in places that you inhabit. But that's the thing: Why would you whine about the government in foreign forums when you can do it in national ones (you know, ones where they use their native tongue rather than English)? I mean, seriously, if you lived in a country that's at peace, and isn't affecting the entire world when it chooses to do stupid things, and isn't a country where English is the native tongue... Would YOU go off whining about things to people who have NO IDEA what you're talking about, and probably don't care, either?

I'm guessing you're just trolling the Scandinavians because someone from one of those countries has accused you of having a small dick. :|

(And if one of you guys find typos from my text and get an urge to point it out, I'm just gonna say right now that I'm ill (flu) and I don't really care. :p)

If you took the time you'd realise that I'm not from the US, but from New Zealand - no, its not in the Netherlands.

Its a different world, we no longer have need for a large population boom. And anyway if the U.S is just a facist stink hole like you communists say, why come here?

People will put up with a lot for money

People will put up with a lot for money

Well that should not be an issue much longer with the dollar dropping.

Some actually do, see Sweden.

Let's talk about Sweden.

http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=2599&date=20051130 (http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=2599&date=20051130)

Illegal immigrants in Sweden are being denied access to potentially life-saving medical treatment, a new report from Medecins Sans Frontieres claims.

In a survey of 102 illegal immigrants in the Stockholm area, MSF found that eighty percent of those questioned said they were excluded from the healthcare system. Two thirds of those questioned said their mental and physical health had declined while living illegally in Sweden.
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“We are aware that this result is not necessarily representative of all illegal immigrants in Sweden, but we think that the trend is clear,” said Matthias Ohlson, who conducted the survey, to TT.

"Many refugees encounter obstacles to getting medical treatment,” he added.

Ohlson gave the example of cancer patients who are denied life-saving treatment until they can make an advance payment. One such case involved a woman with cancer of the uterus who needed an operation and radiotherapy.

Other immigrants say that they have not been given treatment because they do not have a personal number. Twelve women in the study were pregnant, but got no access to antenatal care.

Sweden places more restrictions on healthcare provision for illegal immigrants than almost any other country in the European Union, according to MSF. Countries including Spain, France and Italy provide free emergency healthcare to all immigrants.

Yep, looks like the "moral super-power" is definitely living up to its name.

Now, on to the subject at hand.

While I am not a fan of Mit Romney (I think he's an idiot), let's examine what he really said about states giving aid to illegal immigrants.

Did he say he was going to make it illegal for them to do so? Nope. Did he said he'd send the Army down there to beat up anyone who gave illegal immigrants aid? Nope. Did he threaten to nuke the state that gave aid to illegal immigrants? Nope.

What he did was say the FEDERAL dollars which went to every state could be cut in the event a state CHOSE to give money to illegal immigrants.

Federal dollars. Money given by the federal government to states.

This doesn't infringe on state's rights. They can still choose to give money to illegal immigrants. This is simply a comment that the federal government won't monetarily support this decision.

Huckabee's comments are a bit more serious, as he wants to remove choice from the state level and assign it to federal level. That's far more an infringement on state's rights than anything Romney has said.

I lol because you can't even read, I said: "welfare state have castrated a people to mindless drones"

castrated referring to their brains.

Dear god, read and use your brain - or is this an example of the welfare state on your brain - handing over thinking to the 'all knowing government'.

Let's look... "Then again, I guess several decades of welfare state have castrated a people to mindless drones"

Castrated a people... to... mindless drones.

Yep. Looks like you are saying one becomes 'mindless' by being 'castrated'. Castrated refers to their brains, you say? Then why does it say "castrate a people"... and well.. you know that "castration" isn't usually considered a psychological procedure, yes?

I think you were going for some kind of 'clever' joke about how liberals, or Europeans, or whoever it was, are 'emascualted'. Or something.

But, you said something about castrating a people to mindless drones... and that just makes me laugh. Sorry if your result is off base... the joke just wasn't that good.

I'm not sure where your little ad hominem about education was going... where do you think I was educated?

If you took the time you'd realise that I'm not from the US, but from New Zealand - no, its not in the Netherlands.

Well, I apologize for thinking that you are an American, because as far as I know your system isn't that different from the European ones. So it's kinda surprising, I gotta admit.

So kiwis can be kinda crazy, too.

Good to know!

And Aardweasels brought up a good point. I have no idea where the notion of Scandinavian nations being safe havens for immigrants has come from, really. Since they're not. Illegal immigration doesn't work too well in the north because you ALWAYS need to show your ID and social security card and so on. Without them you're not getting anything except "Sorry, no ID, no halp!"

And why should you get any help without paying yourself, when you aren't a tax payer, from the EU AND you aren't even applying for citizenship (since you might get kicked out of there if it turns out that you're actually just trying to be a parasite and take a place of real refugees, and never even thought about actually working) and are in general just trying to leech off the system? There's no plausible reason to be an illegal immigrant in there unless you're pretty much certain that you'd get sent back home if you tried to seek asylum/citizenship.

Haven't you heard of people whining that they were told in the place they left how things would be so much nicer in a Nordic country, and it turned out they actually have to WORK? And it's cold? And you have to learn a strange language? And stuff?

Indeed, I think someone has instead lobotomized you, my good kiwi friend.

Aardweasels, the difference between Europe and the US is that Europe is far more sensitive to immigration than the US because the US is big and can handle it, while a small population and homogeneous culture is needed for maintaining a comfortable welfare state lifestyle for Europeans, especially in Sweden.

Aardweasels, the difference between Europe and the US is that Europe is far more sensitive to immigration than the US because the US is big and can handle it, while a small population and homogeneous culture is needed for maintaining a comfortable welfare state lifestyle for Europeans, especially in Sweden.

Now I understand! You all hold up Sweden and other European countries as the epitome of moral superiority, and go on and on and on about how well they treat those poor illegal immigrants...and then, when someone points out these centers of moral superiority aren't actually treating illegal immigrants that well, you point out that you can't be expected to do so because of underlying social causes.

Frankly, there's not a country out there which can take in over a certain percentage of population that doesn't support the governmental, social and financial infrastructure of that particular country. In other words, too many people coming in illegally and not paying back into the society they've snuck into causes problems for that country, through having to support a group of people who have no interest in paying back in.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing Sweden for wanting illegal immigrants to pay for their health care (or any other social benefit). I completely understand the financial needs of any country faced with that large a population of illegal immigrants.

I am, however, criticizing the hypocritical masses who loudly declaim Sweden as a giant of moral behaviour. Sweden is in the same boat with the rest of the world, and when push comes to shove (as it so apparently has) they are forced to react in the same way the rest of the world has. Kind of hurts when you're knocked off that pedestal, doesn't it?

I lol because you can't even read, I said: "welfare state have castrated a people to mindless drones"

castrated referring to their brains.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/castration

You fail at the English language.

Or perhaps you believe that one's intellectual capabilities is housed in the testicles/ovaries. Which upon reflection, does seem to explain much about you.

It seems that lack of intellect isn't limited to welfare states either. Do come back once you have gotten a proper education hmm?

Aardweasels, the difference between Europe and the US is that Europe is far more sensitive to immigration than the US because the US is big and can handle it, while a small population and homogeneous culture is needed for maintaining a comfortable welfare state lifestyle for Europeans, especially in Sweden.

Dear god, reminds me of Japan and their excuse for 'hating foreigners' using the 'unique culture' excuse for xenophobia and blatent racism. Look around Japan for the 'no white/foreign people' signs.

Racism is racism, no matter how it is panted. I agree that the ship needs to be filled, but at the same time, there needs to be an orderly boarding of that ship - not some sort of 'free for all'.

Edit: I am pro-immigration. Our growth and competitiveness has decreases each time the government panders to the red necks.

Edit 2: That ship being a 'symbol' of the country

Dear god, reminds me of Japan and their excuse for 'hating foreigners' using the 'unique culture' excuse for xenophobia and blatent racism. Look around Japan for the 'no white/foreign people' signs.

What do you mean by this? That now you think that Scandinavians are racist because they can't (nor shouldn't) cater to illegal immigrants who aren't paying taxes (and not even citizens of the EU) to the country and trying to leech off it while contributing nothing? LEGAL immigrants that actually CONTRIBUTE to the society... Are a different thing altogether.

You know what? You're weird.

FYI, there are no "no black/Asian/whatever race who ain't us" signs prominently in sight in Scandinavian cities.

Racism is racism, no matter how it is panted.

Like you calling Scandinavians mindless drones? Maybe this is just a case of nationalism, but still...

I agree that the ship needs to be filled, but at the same time, there needs to be an orderly boarding of that ship - not some sort of 'free for all'.

And this is why people who try to stow away shouldn't be given the same privileges as those who don't. Thus, they do not receive free healthcare, schooling or anything, because they have never paid a cent to keep it running.

Edit: I am pro-immigration. Our growth and competitiveness has decreases each time the government panders to the red necks.

And yet you call the peoples of other countries "mindless drones" due to your twisted perception of their welcoming of all refugees and the sorts with open arms, which isn't true? You lack consistency.

Look around Japan for the 'no white/foreign people' signs.

Prove this statement. And no, you can't say "Go to Japan and see for yourself". That is an automatic fail.

Prove this statement. And no, you can't say "Go to Japan and see for yourself". That is an automatic fail.

http://images.google.co.nz/imgres?imgurl=http://www.debito.org/nogaijinnodrunkhotel2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.debito.org/roguesgallery.html&h=1191&w=1000&sz=275&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=Ue0yeWahbjRqAM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dno%2Bwhite%2Bpeople%2Bsign%2Bjapan%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

What do you mean by this? That now you think that Scandinavians are racist because they can't (nor shouldn't) cater to illegal immigrants who aren't paying taxes (and not even citizens of the EU) to the country and trying to leech off it while contributing nothing? LEGAL immigrants that actually CONTRIBUTE to the society... Are a different thing altogether.

You know what? You're weird.

FYI, there are no "no black/Asian/whatever race who ain't us" signs prominently in sight in Scandinavian cities.

And yet, you expect the US to provide support to illegal immigrants?

Who said it was in Scandinavia?

Like you calling Scandinavians mindless drones? Maybe this is just a case of nationalism, but still...

Have you been there?

And this is why people who try to stow away shouldn't be given the same privileges as those who don't. Thus, they do not receive free healthcare, schooling or anything, because they have never paid a cent to keep it running.

And yet, you're quite happy for the US to provide it.

And yet you call the peoples of other countries "mindless drones" due to your twisted perception of their welcoming of all refugees and the sorts with open arms, which isn't true? You lack consistency.

Mate, I've got friends in Sweden and they rip out their hair having to pay all the taxes they do. Its a joke, a fiction to say that all the taxes they pay actually result in a superior society.

We should turn the U.S.-Mexico border that's not covered by the Rio Grande into a toxic waste dump with land mines on both sides. And then we should domesticate wild alligators into the Rio Grande.

And to deal with the ones that come by sea, keep a bunch of gunboats in the water within view of each other to inspect all vessels coming. FYI, shore-based inspections don't work, cause the illegals board a small "go-fast" before the ship gets to the shore.

This is not an issue based on race; Illegals come from all corners of the world, including Europe. It's just that most come from Mexico.

And yet, you expect the US to provide support to illegal immigrants?

No, I don't. But they do provide support to them. I'd say they are much more mindless than the Scandinavians as a result. That's what you get for actually listening to what the Mexicans say ("hay don't close the border we still have people here!").

Who said it was in Scandinavia?

I thought the whole thing about "OUTRAGE! Racism in the cloak of uniqueness! Reminds me of the Japanese!" implied that it was about Scandinavia since you just bashed it.

Have you been there?

Yes. A bit chilly in the winters, but I like the cold.

And yet, you're quite happy for the US to provide it.

No, the US is quite happy to provide it. What I think doesn't really matter, but I'll say it anyway. I think they're insane.

And I know it's the government that's the reason behind it, since the Americans I've had conversations with don't really appreciate the constant illegal immigrant flood. Tough cookies.

Mate, I've got friends in Sweden and they rip out their hair having to pay all the taxes they do. Its a joke, a fiction to say that all the taxes they pay actually result in a superior society.

Never said it results in a superior society. I said, however, that it results in "free" healthcare (which is free to them due to them paying taxes), policing, schooling (includes Universities) and so forth. I know I would much prefer a system where I pay crazy taxes than a place where I might not get healthcare if I'm down on my luck and happend to manifest a cancer of some sort.

Mate, I've got friends in Sweden and they rip out their hair having to pay all the taxes they do. Its a joke, a fiction to say that all the taxes they pay actually result in a superior society.

Anecdotal.

Well considering "ILLEAGAL" isn't a word it's fairly hard to understand.

WTF? :confused: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/illegal

I'd rather have a big government Republican cracking down on illegal immigration than a huge government Democrat letting them destroy our country.

Actually, I'd rather neither.

Ron Paul for President in 2008!

WTF? :confused: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/illegal

"Illegal" does not equate "illeagal". :eek:

"Illegal" does not equate "illeagal". :eek:

It's close enough for you to understand that he means illegal. You're just avoiding his question.

It's close enough for you to understand that he means illegal. You're just avoiding his question.

Uh, I just pointed out that the word was "ILLEAGAL" rather than illegal. I did answer this guy's "wtf" question!

As for what question you meant, I have no idea what you're talking about.

EDIT:

Oh yeah, the guy who was wondering why we are even talking about illegal immigrants. A fair question, and I actually share his view. I don't know why we are even having a debate about them when it's obvious that they are illegal and as such shouldn't even be around where ever they are.

No, on page 2 I think, maybe page 1, he asked "What part of ILLEGAL do you not understand?"

No, on page 2 I think, maybe page 1, he asked "What part of ILLEGAL do you not understand?"

Direct quote:

"Why is anyone having this debate what part if ILLEAGAL do you not understand."

He wasn't asking which part of illegal don't people understand - he was asking why we are having this debate in the first place since they are illegal immigrants and as such the entire debate is meaningless!

Direct quote:

"Why is anyone having this debate what part if ILLEAGAL do you not understand."
Stop picking on the ill eagle!

Stop picking on the ill eagle!

I'm an ill human being and no one cares for me :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
buhuu u r meany!!!