NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm sending this letter out to as many major video game producers as I can get contact information for. This addresses the problem that I, and many of my friends have with the state of modern combat simulators. Who here agrees with me?

I want a real gamer’s flight combat simulator; I want a my World War II fighter ace game to be a real, true to life, deadly, draining, nerve racking experience that I feel truly involved in. I want a world where only the quick thinking and bold men come home and everyone else is just cannon fodder. I want to find myself a hair’s breadth away from destruction every time an enemy gets the drop on me and come back from each mission feeling like I have accomplished something just by making it back!


Give me dogfighting!
No more pussy footing it around with dime a dozen enemies and easy to pluck out of the air pansy fighter pilots who float around as if they have barely had a few hours of air time. I want my enemy to be brash and smart, I want my enemies to know their planes like they know their lovers, every little button and knob is so familiar that the aircraft is like an extension of themselves. I want it to be truthful; just because I shoot my enemy doesn’t mean he’s done yet! I want the chance that the damage I dealt is merely superficial, when smoke pours from my enemy’s nearly ruined fuselage I want to be able to grin and close in for the kill like a shark that smells blood only to have it stolen from me by the (un)timely intervention of his wingman so he has just enough time to limp back home to fight me again; I WANT TO EARN MY ACE WINGS!

Every kill should be a challenge, sending my enemy spiraling from the air toward the earth should be an accomplishment in and of itself! No more mindlessly blasting away at closely packed enemy formations and dropping them from the sky like a toddler throwing his toys around the bedroom like every ‘dogfight’ game ever conceived; no no no no no! My enemy has one objective, too kill me! His one and only job is to shoot me and my mates out of the sky and do his damndest to make sure we never get back home to fly a fighter plane ever again. I want to hate and respect my opponents in every mission; I want to fear them while simultaneously laughing at their efforts to make sure that I won’t get out of this without a closed casket. GIVE DADDY THRILLS BABY!

I want my wingman to be my only real friend, I want him to hold my life in his hands and expect the same from me. I want to know that without him there to save my ass I’m toast and I want to fight back the urge to scream and choke back my tears when a stray round strikes his cockpit and ends his life prematurely. I want teamwork; nobody goes out to fly the unfriendly skies alone. I want to know that I can count on my squadron to help me pull through the hard times, just as my enemy can. I want to see enemy pilots throw themselves in the line of fire to keep their buddy alive for one more mission, I want the weakest pilots in the squad to act as bait so that the seasoned veterans can pop out of the clouds at the last minute and rain a deadly hail of .50 caliber rounds on me for being so naive.

No more assisted aim! Aim assistance is for the weak… I want little more than a target painted onto the glass or a metal ‘hood ornament’ with a crosshairs on it for aiming, just like my real world counterparts dealt with. Don’t track my enemies for me, I want to have to deal with not knowing whether or not my opponent is the same Jerry I just shot at or a totally new one… hell I want to find myself chasing a target just to end up shooting my own man! No easy to use HUD for me either, just the bare minimum… my fuel gauge, my altimeter, and only those other things I’d have in real life. No ammo counters! I want to have to conserve ammo; make me guess how many bullets I have left over and punish me for blindly firing at everything that moves by finding myself completely helpless in the air.

I don’t want it easy, I want to struggle through each mission; barely conscious of what else goes on around me as I struggle to stay alive in the aerial hell above Europe, Africa, and the Southern Pacific.

Make it real!
Between missions I want to be able to adjust my plane to my own personal tastes, give me the option to adjust my guns for the ranges I like best; don’t automatically adjust my guns to pinpoint accuracy, make me and a team of trained mechanics work laboriously in a hanger somewhere to make sure my cannons are spot on the target. I want mechanical problems too! That shell that shredded my ailerons in the last mission comes back later to bite me in the ass when the replacement part doesn’t quite fit right and my whole plane drags to port giving me a true challenge to my skills. I want a new guy to forget that he’s supposed to grease something in my flight controls one evening and have to deal with reduced maneuverability while I try to shoot down German bombers over the English Channel.

I want to do more than just see the difference in my aircraft! I want to actually tell the difference between the handling of my Spitfire and the smooth acceleration of my Mustang. I want to know that my Hawker Hurricane can take those hits to her body but grimace every time a shot zips past my canvas wings… and I want to be terrified when my Swordfish is set upon by even the least experienced German pilot! I want Japanese Zeros that fly circles around my Wildcat while I try desperately to pluck them from the sky with my superior firepower.

Give it real depth!
I want to follow the story of an American pilot laying it on the line for his British allies in the Eagle Squadron during the battle of Britain. I want to see through the eyes of a German pilot as I engage Russians over the skies of Stalingrad. I want to watch Pearl Harbor go up in flames from the cockpit of a Betty as I unleash my ordinance onto the unprepared ships below. I want to spend time in the shoes of a limey wannabe hero over the barren deserts of North Africa. I feel the need to take to the skies as a Russian; desperately trying to defend the air above the motherland, and finally I want to go one on one as a Tuskegee airman against an elusive Nazi Ace in a nail biting hairpin turn dogfight to the death!

We can rebuild it, we have the technology…
We can make it stronger, faster, and tougher than any flight combat simulator before it! We have the talent and the computing power to make the skies above WWII come to life in 3D animation that will have your hair blowing in the wind and your stomach churning with each barrel roll as you fly at 250 knots three thousand feet above the imagined safety of the ground. Why the fuck do these games still suck?

does ace combat 6 look like it is going to meet any of your requests? just curious since i think it looks cool but i agree with you

Troll answer: It's called real life. If you want that, step outside, and join the airforce.

Nice answer: Yeah, I agree with you.

Maybe answer: Dunno, never played flight sims.

There ya go, you can pick and choose which answer you want!

I want a persistent world battlefield MMO, but that's not going to happen for ages either :(

Troll answer: It's called real life. If you want that, step outside, and join the airforce.

Unless you play them for 50 hours straight in an Internet cafe and die of heart failure, game consist of 100% less death than the air-force.

Troll answer: It's called real life. If you want that, step outside, and join the airforce.


I tried... had the ASVAB scores needed, sadly I am about 6 and a half inches too tall.

That's a bit creepy, you're basically saying you would rather murder people than play a video game.

Not at all... I'm saying I'd like a challenging flight simulator.

That's a bit creepy, you're basically saying you would rather murder people than play a video game.

Eh. I think the gaming industry is horse/dog racing, casinos, etc. Video games are a subcategory of the entertainment industry. I think. :p

As to WWII flight sim, I'm partial to Dynamix's "Aces Over the Pacific." Not sure which other games have come along in the past decade or so, though.

Semi-related answer-Have you ever tried unreal world?Awesome game,with death if you screw up even a little bit.
Related answer:With all due respect, about 8.3% of the Modern war gaming population wants a realistic fight sim.The rest want to blow up hundreds of planes and buildings.
Unrealated answer-Planeshift and soda go together like soda and chips!

There are several problems with making very realistic simulators. One is that it would severely punish failure (or even your lack of extreme luck), making the game very frustrating for all but the hardcore fans of... self abuse? Another problem is that the kind of AI you're talking about is difficult to pull off. I doubt any game, in any genre, would meet your standards in this area.

But most importantly, the market for this type of game isn't nearly large enough to justify the budget for it. Making games is expensive you know.

I'm with you on this SaintB. We now have a few rally GOOD, challenging FPS and RTS games, why can't we have a really good flight combat sim? Personally, I'd prefer modern air-to-air rather than WWII or WWI, but the same complaints apply.

most importantly, the market for this type of game isn't nearly large enough to justify the budget for it. Making games is expensive you know.
This is it. Yes, the computational power exists to create startlingly accurate simulations of any of a vast array of combat (or other) environments. However, the proportion of gamers who a) own the hardware to deal with such a complicated simulator and b) actually want simulation to that kind of depth (i.e. very complex games with extremely steep learning curves) is very small when compared to the number of gamers overall.

Nobody is going to run a project requiring huge numbers of designers and coders to create a game which would only appeal to a small slice of the market.

Things I am aware of, its all about the profits these days. I still want to see it though, just once.

I know it isn't air combat, but Silent Hunter 3 and 4 are pretty damned realistic Submarine combat sims, if you're interested.

Seriously it's thrilling, hunting for merchantmen whilst trying to remain undetected by the Royal Navy. It's terribly difficult as well. You'll be very lucky to come back to port with even 1 kill.

I think the game you're looking for is ... an air force flight simulator which probably means you'll have to join the air force to use it.

I played a lot of old DOS flight sims but landing isn't my thing especially landing on a damn carrier.

I think the game you're looking for is ... an air force flight simulator which probably means you'll have to join the air force to use it.

I played a lot of old DOS flight sims but landing isn't my thing especially landing on a damn carrier.

A soreviously mentioned I was 6 and a half inches too tall to become an air force pilot :(

If you want to try a good flight simulator/war game, go for Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe for DOS 5, great game. Although, a joystick is highly recommended.

A soreviously mentioned I was 6 and a half inches too tall to become an air force pilot :(

I think smaller people cope better with G forces than taller people due to the way blood flows the brain. In a taller person, they are more likely to black out.

Had a look at Microsoft Flight Sim 10 (I know, no combat but)?

I think smaller people cope better with G forces than taller people due to the way blood flows the brain. In a taller person, they are more likely to black out.

Had a look at Microsoft Flight Sim 10 (I know, no combat but)?

Love that game... needs combat though :)

I find it extremly relaxing to take a Leer or simaler passenger jet and set it on autopilot while I kick back and watch the scenery go by.

You want a challenging WWII flight sim? Go get Janes WWII Fighters and set the AI to Ace. Then come back and complain. Until then, you have no room to talk.

I want a persistent world battlefield MMO, but that's not going to happen for ages either :(
World War 2 online has been out for fecking ages, and it's exactly that.

@ The OP

They're oh so going to care, not that a fair few of your points aren't wrong anyway - the RAF guys I've talked to have noted that your loadout and gun ranges entirely aren't picked by you, and indeed that modern aerial combat probably wouldn't involved much of your oh-so-beloved dogfighting.

But there you go.

as no-one else wants this, there will never be enough consumer interest to warrant a high budget to such a game. What the general consumer wants is a game that is easy to pick up and enjoy, the game you suggest would never sell enough copies to make back the money it would cost.
The only ways i can think of that a game like this would be made are:
1) an open source game made by like minded developers frustrated with currant flight sims (note that this would also be free, and as far as i know, already exist)
2) a low budget game for a niche market such as yourself, this would mean a lot of compromise in realism due to low funding of certain elements to make gameplay as you want (graphics, physics, game length)
3)a commercial flight sim designed for training purposes, most likely very expensive

All in all, stop whining and get over it.

I'm a retired flight sim fan, but I was told by the people in the know that Il-2 Sturmovik is the closest to the real thing amongst the popular, off the shelf sims. It is made by Russians out of love for the genre (and less out of love for the money, hence the unforgiving learning curve). It has dozens of great rare WWII planes, it's hard to learn and very difficult to master and each mission consists (if you choose the realistic approach) of minutes and minutes of sheer boredom and seconds of pure fury, action and terror.
Oh, and if you want real opposition in games, go online. Nothing has beaten humans yet. In flight sims at least.

I wouldn't bother sending your letter. It's too difficult to make games for hardcore gamers, so nobody will.

Always remember, the primary goal of the gaming industry to to make money, not to make good games.

I'm sending this letter out to as many major video game producers as I can get contact information for. This addresses the problem that I, and many of my friends have with the state of modern combat simulators. Who here agrees with me?

I want a real gamer’s flight combat simulator; I want a my World War II fighter ace game to be a real, true to life, deadly, draining, nerve racking experience that I feel truly involved in. I want a world where only the quick thinking and bold men come home and everyone else is just cannon fodder. I want to find myself a hair’s breadth away from destruction every time an enemy gets the drop on me and come back from each mission feeling like I have accomplished something just by making it back!


Give me dogfighting!
No more pussy footing it around with dime a dozen enemies and easy to pluck out of the air pansy fighter pilots who float around as if they have barely had a few hours of air time. I want my enemy to be brash and smart, I want my enemies to know their planes like they know their lovers, every little button and knob is so familiar that the aircraft is like an extension of themselves. I want it to be truthful; just because I shoot my enemy doesn’t mean he’s done yet! I want the chance that the damage I dealt is merely superficial, when smoke pours from my enemy’s nearly ruined fuselage I want to be able to grin and close in for the kill like a shark that smells blood only to have it stolen from me by the (un)timely intervention of his wingman so he has just enough time to limp back home to fight me again; I WANT TO EARN MY ACE WINGS!

Every kill should be a challenge, sending my enemy spiraling from the air toward the earth should be an accomplishment in and of itself! No more mindlessly blasting away at closely packed enemy formations and dropping them from the sky like a toddler throwing his toys around the bedroom like every ‘dogfight’ game ever conceived; no no no no no! My enemy has one objective, too kill me! His one and only job is to shoot me and my mates out of the sky and do his damndest to make sure we never get back home to fly a fighter plane ever again. I want to hate and respect my opponents in every mission; I want to fear them while simultaneously laughing at their efforts to make sure that I won’t get out of this without a closed casket. GIVE DADDY THRILLS BABY!

I want my wingman to be my only real friend, I want him to hold my life in his hands and expect the same from me. I want to know that without him there to save my ass I’m toast and I want to fight back the urge to scream and choke back my tears when a stray round strikes his cockpit and ends his life prematurely. I want teamwork; nobody goes out to fly the unfriendly skies alone. I want to know that I can count on my squadron to help me pull through the hard times, just as my enemy can. I want to see enemy pilots throw themselves in the line of fire to keep their buddy alive for one more mission, I want the weakest pilots in the squad to act as bait so that the seasoned veterans can pop out of the clouds at the last minute and rain a deadly hail of .50 caliber rounds on me for being so naive.

No more assisted aim! Aim assistance is for the weak… I want little more than a target painted onto the glass or a metal ‘hood ornament’ with a crosshairs on it for aiming, just like my real world counterparts dealt with. Don’t track my enemies for me, I want to have to deal with not knowing whether or not my opponent is the same Jerry I just shot at or a totally new one… hell I want to find myself chasing a target just to end up shooting my own man! No easy to use HUD for me either, just the bare minimum… my fuel gauge, my altimeter, and only those other things I’d have in real life. No ammo counters! I want to have to conserve ammo; make me guess how many bullets I have left over and punish me for blindly firing at everything that moves by finding myself completely helpless in the air.

I don’t want it easy, I want to struggle through each mission; barely conscious of what else goes on around me as I struggle to stay alive in the aerial hell above Europe, Africa, and the Southern Pacific.

Make it real!
Between missions I want to be able to adjust my plane to my own personal tastes, give me the option to adjust my guns for the ranges I like best; don’t automatically adjust my guns to pinpoint accuracy, make me and a team of trained mechanics work laboriously in a hanger somewhere to make sure my cannons are spot on the target. I want mechanical problems too! That shell that shredded my ailerons in the last mission comes back later to bite me in the ass when the replacement part doesn’t quite fit right and my whole plane drags to port giving me a true challenge to my skills. I want a new guy to forget that he’s supposed to grease something in my flight controls one evening and have to deal with reduced maneuverability while I try to shoot down German bombers over the English Channel.

I want to do more than just see the difference in my aircraft! I want to actually tell the difference between the handling of my Spitfire and the smooth acceleration of my Mustang. I want to know that my Hawker Hurricane can take those hits to her body but grimace every time a shot zips past my canvas wings… and I want to be terrified when my Swordfish is set upon by even the least experienced German pilot! I want Japanese Zeros that fly circles around my Wildcat while I try desperately to pluck them from the sky with my superior firepower.

Give it real depth!
I want to follow the story of an American pilot laying it on the line for his British allies in the Eagle Squadron during the battle of Britain. I want to see through the eyes of a German pilot as I engage Russians over the skies of Stalingrad. I want to watch Pearl Harbor go up in flames from the cockpit of a Betty as I unleash my ordinance onto the unprepared ships below. I want to spend time in the shoes of a limey wannabe hero over the barren deserts of North Africa. I feel the need to take to the skies as a Russian; desperately trying to defend the air above the motherland, and finally I want to go one on one as a Tuskegee airman against an elusive Nazi Ace in a nail biting hairpin turn dogfight to the death!

We can rebuild it, we have the technology…
We can make it stronger, faster, and tougher than any flight combat simulator before it! We have the talent and the computing power to make the skies above WWII come to life in 3D animation that will have your hair blowing in the wind and your stomach churning with each barrel roll as you fly at 250 knots three thousand feet above the imagined safety of the ground. Why the fuck do these games still suck?

What you want is to join the Air Force. Any Air Force. And you'll have the benefit of being maimed or killed when you mess up a level! Won't that be fun?

Hint: they suck because they are games and by definition are NOT REALITY.