NationStates Jolt Archive

This Saturday will see the return of the greatest rivalry in all of sports. For over 100 years Michigan and OSU have been in an all out war on the gridiron.

Michigan is looking to refind the dominance they had against Cooper. With Tressel's 6-1 record vs. Michigan, Lloyd Carr is desperately fighting to ensure his fate is not the same as Cooper's. Should Michigan lose, this could be the end of Lloyd Carr's tenure as head coach of the Michigan Wolverines.

The Big Ten Championship and a trip to the Rose Bowl are at stake on Saturday. Who will win this game?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan-Ohio_State_rivalry

This Saturday will see the return of the greatest rivalry in all of sports.

Really? Have people died?

Really? Have people died?

They don't kill each other. Destruction of property is as far as it goes. Makes it more fun that way - when you kill someone, the pissed-off look on their face just isn't as good.

Anywho, I secretly hope Michigan wins it just so I can see the anguished looks on Buckeye Nation's faces after they realize they lost to the same team that got nosed out by Appalachian Fucking State in September.

Seriously - the only way that could have been funnier is if, instead of Michigan losing, it had been Ohio State.

They don't kill each other. Destruction of property is as far as it goes. Makes it more fun that way - when you kill someone, the pissed-off look on their face just isn't as good.

Anywho, I secretly hope Michigan wins it just so I can see the anguished looks on Buckeye Nation's faces after they realize they lost to the same team that got nosed out by Appalachian Fucking State in September.

Seriously - the only way that could have been funnier is if, instead of Michigan losing, it had been Ohio State.

Well, it can hardly be called the 'greatest rivalry in all of sports' if the fans don't kill each other.

It happens pretty regularly in plenty of other sports.

Well, it can hardly be called the 'greatest rivalry in all of sports' if the fans don't kill each other.

It happens pretty regularly in plenty of other sports.

They don't kill eachother, but it is dangerous to go to the opposing school in the other team's colors. I wen to OSU for the 2002 game wearing an Anthony Thomas jersey. I'm lucky to be alive today. If Braylon Edwards wasn't called of offensive pass interference in the end zone, then I would've been killed by drunk OSU fans who saw a National Championship go bye bye.

BTW, did anyone see the HBO special? http://www.hbo.com/events/rivalry/

It can safely be called the biggest rivalry in all of sports when ESPN called it that. ESPN is only biased when it comes to covering East Coast sports. If they dub a Midwest rivalry to be bigger than the fake Yankee$-BlowSawx rivalry, then you know it's big.

Well, it can hardly be called the 'greatest rivalry in all of sports' if the fans don't kill each other.

It happens pretty regularly in plenty of other sports.

So just because the fans are more civilized, it can't count as a great rivalry? Forgive us if we don't go out and blow off the starting quarterback's head for throwing a key interception or if we don't light opposing fans' cars on fire with them inside.

So just because the fans are more civilized, it can't count as a great rivalry? Forgive us if we don't go out and blow off the starting quarterback's head for throwing a key interception or if we don't light opposing fans' cars on fire with them inside.

Guns? Pah.. Real hooligans use fists. Or bottles. Metal chairs are also good. So is a nice Molotov here and there.

They don't kill eachother, but it is dangerous to go to the opposing school in the other team's colors. I wen to OSU for the 2002 game wearing an Anthony Thomas jersey. I'm lucky to be alive today. If Braylon Edwards wasn't called of offensive pass interference in the end zone, then I would've been killed by drunk OSU fans who saw a National Championship go bye bye.

BTW, did anyone see the HBO special? http://www.hbo.com/events/rivalry/

It can safely be called the biggest rivalry in all of sports when ESPN called it that. ESPN is only biased when it comes to covering East Coast sports. If they dub a Midwest rivalry to be bigger than the fake Yankee$-BlowSawx rivalry, then you know it's big.

link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan-Ohio_State_rivalry)

The game was ranked by ESPN in 2000 as the greatest North American sports rivalry.

North American sports only. Doesn't take in the likes of any of the Brazilian football rivalries or India vs Pakistan in cricket.

India vs Pakistan in cricket.

Good example. I think a sports rivalry that's become a proxy for nuclear war kinda overshadows anything else.

Well, it can hardly be called the 'greatest rivalry in all of sports' if the fans don't kill each other.

It happens pretty regularly in plenty of other sports.

The fans may not kill each other, but there is a historical basis for the Michigan-Ohio rivalry. See: Toledo War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War).

Edit: Oh yeah, about the game...Buckeyes take out a shitload of frustration on the Wolverines. Chad Henne remains a loser. THE Ohio State University: 45 Meechigan: 3

The fans may not kill each other, but there is a historical basis for the Michigan-Ohio rivalry. See: Toledo War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War).

The Toledo War (1835–1836), also known as the Ohio-Michigan War, was the bloodless boundary dispute between the U.S. state of Ohio and the adjoining territory of Michigan

Both militias were mobilized and sent to positions on opposite sides of the Maumee River near Toledo, but there was little interaction between the two sides besides mutual taunting. The single military confrontation of the "war" ended with a report of shots being fired into the air, incurring no casualties.

Not much compared to the long history England has with the Celtic Nations or Australia, India and Pakistan have with each other, or France and Germany have.

Good example. I think a sports rivalry that's become a proxy for nuclear war kinda overshadows anything else.

I recall reading in Sports Illustrated a little about a few international blood feuds a la India/Pakistan (USSR/Hungary was another.) They described it as "war, but no one has to die." See, if it keeps people from blowing each other up...

You could call it the Battle of New Orleans since neither side has any national title shot.

I'm guessing the Big Ten title is the consolation prize.

Good example. I think a sports rivalry that's become a proxy for nuclear war kinda overshadows anything else.

Seconded :)

Michagin is going down. hard. just like last year.
end of story, good bye.
*runs off to don gear*
I don't give a damn for the whole state of Michagin,
the whole state of Michagin
the whole state of Michagin
I don't give a damn for the whole state of Michagin

If OSU loses, then UConn still has a (well, small) chance to make the Top Ten. This is the first year that UConn has ever been RANKED, let alone make the Top Ten.

This is a grand year for New England sports!

Guns? Pah.. Real hooligans use fists. Or bottles. Metal chairs are also good. So is a nice Molotov here and there.

The problem would be greater, but the city and state deploy what amounts to a regiment and a half of police to the Campus area when the game is here in Columbus. Last year there was a column, a column, of mounted police 5 across and twenty long going up Lane Avenue. Helicopters, heavily armed riot cops, omnipresent cruisers, and quonset hut gymnasiums turned into police processing facilities are all present. It's like living in a police state.

Michagin is going down. hard. just like last year.
end of story, good bye.
*runs off to don gear*
I don't give a damn for the whole state of Michagin,
the whole state of Michagin
the whole state of Michagin
I don't give a damn for the whole state of Michagin

Actually, last year we lost by 3 points.

This year we will have our revenge. MUHAHHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

poll fails.

Well, it can hardly be called the 'greatest rivalry in all of sports' if the fans don't kill each other.

It happens pretty regularly in plenty of other sports.

Indeed.

I think Cal vs. Stanford is a better rivalry than Michigan vs. Ohio State. Partly because the two schools are part of the same metropolitan area.

Indeed.

I think Cal vs. Stanford is a better rivalry than Michigan vs. Ohio State. Partly because the two schools are part of the same metropolitan area.

The Big Game is a fun one. My favorite has to be the band though. "And the band is on the field!"

I detest Michigan with every fibre of my being. Ergo, I will be cheering for the lesser of the two evils.

The Big Game is a fun one. My favorite has to be the band though. "And the band is on the field!"

My opinion is heavily biased, naturally, due to growing up in the East Bay (true blue).

That's gotta be one of the greatest events in sports history, lol. So utterly crazy. The 1982 Big Game (that ended in The Play) was also my parents' first date, lol.

My opinion is heavily biased, naturally, due to growing up in the East Bay (true blue).

That's gotta be one of the greatest events in sports history, lol. So utterly crazy. The 1982 Big Game (that ended in The Play) was also my parents' first date, lol.
The Stanford Band is a riot. My uncle was in it so I know all the lore and have seen all the videos from the spotted owl formation, conducting the band with a wooden cross (vs. ND of course), the Mormon incident at BYU, and of course the 1997 halftime vs. ND. They are so politically incorrect and hilarious.

snip

Do you want to make a sig wager on this?

If Michigan wins, you have to have "go blue" in your sig for a week. If OSU wins, I have to have "go buckeyes" in my sig. I won't be able to change mine until the day after the game though so it would be from the 18th-25th only. (I'm getting fucked up at IU and watching us get win #8)

The Stanford Band is a riot. My uncle was in it so I know all the lore and have seen all the videos from the spotted owl formation, conducting the band with a wooden cross (vs. ND of course), the Mormon incident at BYU, and of course the 1997 halftime vs. ND. They are so politically incorrect and hilarious.

I don't know, I kind of hate them as a duty, being a Cal fan. It's nothing personal really, just kind of tradition to boo them, and I don't think they sound very good. Their wearing of hardhats started because we'd throw things (like oranges) at them.

As far as rivalries go, it's one of the more light-hearted ones, not too ugly. But it's fun.

Frontline update from Columbus:

Drunk OSU students are jumping into Mirror Lake (ask me about how disgusting Mirror Lake is later) in sub-freezing weather!

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6848/1115072329ark4.jpg
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/5402/1115072325cew5.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7313/1115072330alo2.jpg
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1217/1115072330yu8.jpg
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1377/1115072325bqm2.jpg

As a side note, I've never jumped in, and it's always worked, the Bucks have won every year! So, once again I'm staying warm and dry.

I detest Michigan with every fibre of my being. Ergo, I will be cheering for the lesser of the two evils.

You would actually cheer for a team from "That Place To The South Which Shall Not Be Named?"

I'd cheer for Toyota before I'd do that.

Anyway, I think it's clear that our current losing streak to Ohio is the cause of our recent economic downturn. This streak started in 2001, the same time as the downturn and will continue until we beat them at least two years in a row again. And of course, this downturn is because God/Allah/FSM is angry with us for being unable to best the team that stands for everything that is evil in this world.

You would actually cheer for a team from "That Place To The South Which Shall Not Be Named?"

I'd cheer for Toyota before I'd do that.


Yes. My hate for the University of Michigan goes deeper then my body and soul. I would cheer for Hitler (lulz godwin) before I would cheer for Michigan. The University of Michigan is a bourgeoisie institution based on oppression of those below it. It is all consuming, and will not rest until all is under it's rule.

Frontline update from Columbus:

Drunk OSU students are jumping into Mirror Lake (ask me about how disgusting Mirror Lake is later) in sub-freezing weather!

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6848/1115072329ark4.jpg
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/5402/1115072325cew5.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7313/1115072330alo2.jpg
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1217/1115072330yu8.jpg
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1377/1115072325bqm2.jpg

As a side note, I've never jumped in, and it's always worked, the Bucks have won every year! So, once again I'm staying warm and dry.


Ok, I saw at least a Canadian and German flag. What's up with that?

Oh lord, I can't wait for b-ball season.

*snip* And of course, this downturn is because God/Allah/FSM is angry with us for being unable to best the team that stands for everything that is evil in this world.

G-d does have a hand in Michigan's downturn. And a Sweater Vest. (http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5467/ncfgtressel195ht2.jpg)

And I'll take the opportunity to post this (http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3786/michye7.jpg).

This Saturday will see the return of the greatest rivalry in all of sports. For over 100 years Michigan and OSU have been in an all out war on the gridiron.

Michigan is looking to refind the dominance they had against Cooper. With Tressel's 6-1 record vs. Michigan, Lloyd Carr is desperately fighting to ensure his fate is not the same as Cooper's. Should Michigan lose, this could be the end of Lloyd Carr's tenure as head coach of the Michigan Wolverines.

The Big Ten Championship and a trip to the Rose Bowl are at stake on Saturday. Who will win this game?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan-Ohio_State_rivalry

It can't be that great, I've never heard of it.

Let it be a tie, Lord.

G-d does have a hand in Michigan's downturn. And a Sweater Vest. (http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5467/ncfgtressel195ht2.jpg)

Well, it is a little known fact that Jim Tressel is in fact Satan. Why do you think he wears red all the time?

It can safely be called the biggest rivalry in all of sports when ESPN called it that. ESPN is only biased when it comes to covering East Coast sports. If they dub a Midwest rivalry to be bigger than the fake Yankee$-BlowSawx rivalry, then you know it's big.

Pfft. It's not a patch on the old firm.

Well, it is a little known fact that Jim Tressel is in fact Satan. Why do you think he wears red all the time?

Actually, the truth is a wears a substantial quantity of grey :)

And his shoes are bright white.

Ok, I saw at least a Canadian and German flag. What's up with that?

Ohio State does have a couple of hundred students from both places, and they assimilate shockingly well :)

Oh lord, I can't wait for b-ball season.
My poor old pop is already despairing on the chances of his beloved Kentucky.

This Saturday will see the return of the greatest rivalry in all of sports.

I think you are going to have to take this back unless you can prove it objectively

Pfft. It's not a patch on the old firm.
Indeed. Or any given Scotland vs England encounter (in whatever sport). Or a Merseyside derby, a Spurs v Arsenal game, last weekend's Sunderland v Newcastle game. I'm sure the denizens of Milan and Rome and, just about any other large European city, or South American city for that matter, would argue their cases too. What of Brazil vs Argentina football matches? Bah, I could go on and on and on.

However, to those who are caught up in it, it probably does feel like the "biggest rivalry in all of sports". Whatever, I'd still never heard of it until today :)

They don't kill eachother, but it is dangerous to go to the opposing school in the other team's colors. I wen to OSU for the 2002 game wearing an Anthony Thomas jersey. I'm lucky to be alive today. If Braylon Edwards wasn't called of offensive pass interference in the end zone, then I would've been killed by drunk OSU fans who saw a National Championship go bye bye.

BTW, did anyone see the HBO special? http://www.hbo.com/events/rivalry/

It can safely be called the biggest rivalry in all of sports when ESPN called it that. ESPN is only biased when it comes to covering East Coast sports. If they dub a Midwest rivalry to be bigger than the fake Yankee$-BlowSawx rivalry, then you know it's big.

OSU fans would kill because of a national championship? Pshhh, they need to grow tougher. When you can go to every home game, and watch your team lose most or sometimes every single one, yet stay until the clock reads 0:00 and bear it all without a tear and with a stiff upper lip, then you're a fan. Or some kind of masochist. But that's what being a Cal Bears fan entailed for most of my life.

Anyway, ESPN is crap. They air dumbass poker games (which isn't even a sport) instead of showing Rugby championship games.

Pfft. It's not a patch on the old firm.

QFT. Even though they arent as intense these days. The Rome Derby is very tasty at the moment. And of course, Barca v Real Madrid is still the daddy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Firm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome_derby

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Cl%C3%A1sico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Cl%C3%A1sico)

I'm also hearing good things about the Al-Ahly v Zamalek game in Cairo. The Old Firm of the Muslim World.

But im sure two schools playing each other is bigger. :p

Go Bucks!

The time is now GMT 12:44...and Michigan still sucks (http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8716/1500dayspy1.jpg). :)

But im sure two schools playing each other is bigger. :p

You have no idea. None at all.

You have no idea. None at all.

So games between Irish Catholics and British Protestants, Italian Fascists against Communists, Secular Muslims versus Islamacists, Serbs v Croats etc etc pale into insignificance when two bunches of pimply teenage students go head to head?

Maybe its you who has no idea of the near limitless boundaries of sporting rivalry outside of the US?

So games between Irish Catholics and British Protestants, Italian Fascists against Communists, Secular Muslims versus Islamacists, Serbs v Croats etc etc pale into insignificance when two bunches of pimply teenage students go head to head?

Maybe its you who has no idea of the near limitless boundaries of sporting rivalry outside of the US?

No. I simply stated that you should not pass judgment on things you have not experienced. You are not entitled.

They don't kill eachother, but it is dangerous to go to the opposing school in the other team's colors. I wen to OSU for the 2002 game wearing an Anthony Thomas jersey. I'm lucky to be alive today. If Braylon Edwards wasn't called of offensive pass interference in the end zone, then I would've been killed by drunk OSU fans who saw a National Championship go bye bye.

BTW, did anyone see the HBO special? http://www.hbo.com/events/rivalry/

It can safely be called the biggest rivalry in all of sports when ESPN called it that. ESPN is only biased when it comes to covering East Coast sports. If they dub a Midwest rivalry to be bigger than the fake Yankee$-BlowSawx rivalry, then you know it's big.

Gotta disagree with you there. ESPN generally covers American sports. They don't spend nearly as much time on footbal (which is very popular world-wide) as they do on football (American) and baseball, which really aren't too popular outside of the US.

No. I simply stated that you should not pass judgment on things you have not experienced. You are not entitled.

But I have. I have been to both College and NFL American Football games and a number of major soccer derbies. And if you think the gridiron games are even approaching the intensity of a Rome derby, or Celtic v Rangers, you are kidding yourself.

I'm not belittling these US rivalries. But they aren't even at the races compared to the politicised soccer ones.

But I have. I have been to both College and NFL American Football games and a number of major soccer derbies. And if you think the gridiron games are even approaching the intensity of a Rome derby, or Celtic v Rangers, you are kidding yourself.

I'm not belittling these US rivalries. But they aren't even at the races compared to the politicised soccer ones.

US professional sports don't have real rivalries (some baseball excluded)

Ohio State and Michigan is different then other rivalries. The hatred is extreme. Experience that, and get back to me.

Ohio State and Michigan is different then other rivalries. The hatred is extreme. Experience that, and get back to me.

And it's not limited to just this one sport. It's in all sports in which the two universities play each other.

And it's not limited to just this one sport. It's in all sports in which the two universities play each other.

It goes beyond sports, even. Ohio and Michigan just really don't like eachother. Recall that we nearly fought a war for that little shithole known as "Toleto". Thank god we came out on the better end of that.

But I have. I have been to both College and NFL American Football games and a number of major soccer derbies. And if you think the gridiron games are even approaching the intensity of a Rome derby, or Celtic v Rangers, you are kidding yourself.

I'm not belittling these US rivalries. But they aren't even at the races compared to the politicised soccer ones.

The fact that you even mentioned the NFL pretty much voids any point you made in your post.

This is about actual rivalries.

It goes beyond sports, even. Ohio and Michigan just really don't like eachother. Recall that we nearly fought a war for that little shithole known as "Toleto". Thank god we came out on the better end of that.

Oh, I'm fully aware of that. During my time in the Michigan Guard we had to work with the Ohio Guard on several occasions, and let's just say that rarely were there good vibes floating around. Especially when those bastards want to fly their flag from JFHQ in Grayling. Imagine, an Ohio flag flying from the HQ of the home of the Michigan military! Absurd!

Woohoo! Buckeyes win again! No losses to Michigan whilst I've been at OSU! Oh yeah! Tressel 6-1 against Carr!

On a more sober note, should Lloyd Carr choose to leave his position as head coach, my best wishes go with him. He's been a top notch coach, and he shouldn't be remembered for such a bum year like this.

And anyone who knocks Tressel as a weasel, or a slimy used car salesman, look at how he handled that last play. He could have run up another seven points, and he held them back. That is practically the definition of class.

On a more sober note, should Lloyd Carr choose to leave his position as head coach, my best wishes go with him. He's been a top notch coach, and he shouldn't be remembered for such a bum year like this.

Sweet god, I hope he does. In the minds of myself and many other Michigan fans there is only one stat that matters from a Michigan coach, and he's 1-6. And thus, he's an epic failure.

And anyone who knocks Tressel as a weasel, or a slimy used car salesman, look at how he handled that last play. He could have run up another seven points, and he held them back. That is practically the definition of class.

I don't know him like that, I knock him for representing all that is evil in this world :p

Michgan and Ohio is the exact same as Red Star Belgrade versus Dinamo Zagreb

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinamo_Zagreb-Red_Star_Belgrade_riot

You yanks have a bizarre sense of self importance.

Sweet god, I hope he does. In the minds of myself and many other Michigan fans there is only one stat that matters from a Michigan coach, and he's 1-6. And thus, he's an epic failure.

Yes, but in comparison to our own equivalent, John Cooper, he's been wildly successful. I hate to admit it, but Carr beats the pants off of Coop.



I don't know him like that, I knock him for representing all that is evil in this world :p

Really? On the inverse, I love Lloyd Carr, he's great. I wish he could stay on for, like, twenty years.






As a side note, the police are omnipresent. I just went to the bar to have a beer with a friend, and before that I walked back to my apartment from where I was watching the game, and with a total of over twenty minutes on foot outdoors, I was never out of sight of an officer, bike, horse, cruiser and helicopter. It's craziness here in C-bus.

Yes, but in comparison to our own equivalent, John Cooper, he's been wildly successful. I hate to admit it, but Carr beats the pants off of Coop.

Yeah, but that's like comparing getting stabbed in the arm to getting stabbed in the stomach. Either way, it still sucks.

Really? On the inverse, I love Lloyd Carr, he's great. I wish he could stay on for, like, twenty years.

You and every other Ohioan.

Michgan and Ohio is the exact same as Red Star Belgrade versus Dinamo Zagreb

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinamo_Zagreb-Red_Star_Belgrade_riot

You yanks have a bizarre sense of self importance.

You clearly don't get it.

The OSU-UM rivalry, whilst lacking in the political overtones of soccer rivalries, is a brutal event. My parents got angrier when I went to Michigan than when I fed my youngest sister booze at my cousin's wedding. I know union members who refuse to buy cars from Detroit because of the rivalry. It's serious, man.

Yeah, but that's like comparing getting stabbed in the arm to getting stabbed in the stomach. Either way, it still sucks.

True.



You and every other Ohioan.

I wouldn't be surprised if our legislature offered him a pension when he retires :D

You clearly don't get it.

The OSU-UM rivalry, whilst lacking in the political overtones of soccer rivalries, is a brutal event. My parents got angrier when I went to Michigan than when I fed my youngest sister booze at my cousin's wedding. I know union members who refuse to buy cars from Detroit because of the rivalry. It's serious, man.

I wish American sports had the political overtones of soccer rivalries.
Hell, I wish my local university HAD a rival. I mean, yeah, Tennessee for womens basketball, but Uconn seems to have nothing in terms of local rivalries.

You clearly don't get it.

The OSU-UM rivalry, whilst lacking in the political overtones of soccer rivalries, is a brutal event. My parents got angrier when I went to Michigan than when I fed my youngest sister booze at my cousin's wedding. I know union members who refuse to buy cars from Detroit because of the rivalry. It's serious, man.

Im not doubting its serious, but to say its more intense than a game like the old firm is laughable.

You clearly don't get it.

The OSU-UM rivalry, whilst lacking in the political overtones of soccer rivalries, is a brutal event. My parents got angrier when I went to Michigan than when I fed my youngest sister booze at my cousin's wedding. I know union members who refuse to buy cars from Detroit because of the rivalry. It's serious, man.

Your parents get angry? People don't buy cars from Detroit? Compare that to the Ultras and hooligan gangs you find in South American and some European football as well as other places. Riots are common and people die. In some cases you'll see guns being used. There's serious, and then there's serious.

Your parents get angry? People don't buy cars from Detroit? Compare that to the Ultras and hooligan gangs you find in South American and some European football as well as other places. Riots are common and people die. In some cases you'll see guns being used. There's serious, and then there's serious.

I'm providing examples of how non-hooligan people respond. Look at how students at Ohio State behaved in 2002. The entire campus area was engulfed in riots, it was pure chaos. Not only that, but look at the response of the authorities to that event.

Im not doubting its serious, but to say its more intense than a game like the old firm is laughable.

Hardly.

Just because we Americans are sufficiently civilized to not kill each other over sports doesn't degrade from the degree of rivalry. The old firm is a single sport issue, the Ohio State-Michigan rivalry crosses all boundaries, without the pre-existing political backlight of the Old Firm. Our rivalry is born entirely of sports.

Hardly.

Just because we Americans are sufficiently civilized to not kill each other over sports doesn't degrade from the degree of rivalry. The old firm is a single sport issue, the Ohio State-Michigan rivalry crosses all boundaries, without the pre-existing political backlight of the Old Firm. Our rivalry is born entirely of sports.

Well, there are those who believe the rivalry started with the Toledo War. And the rivalry isn't just sports, it's just that sports is where is manifests most strongly.

This Saturday will see the return of the greatest rivalry in all of sports.

Not only is it NOT the best rivalry in all of sports...or in US sports...it's not even the greatest rivalry in NCAA football.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army-Navy_Game

As for the game...what a snoozefest. As a fan of neither team, I could hardly stay awake. If you expect me to get excited about your rivalry, you're going to have to do much better than that.

Hardly.

Just because we Americans are sufficiently civilized to not kill each other over sports doesn't degrade from the degree of rivalry. The old firm is a single sport issue, the Ohio State-Michigan rivalry crosses all boundaries, without the pre-existing political backlight of the Old Firm. Our rivalry is born entirely of sports.

You've just had people pointing out the history with regards of the Toledo war. You've referred to the rivalry as 'brutal' and mentioned riots etc. Plus you've got a limited number of people interested in it. Compare that to River Plate and Boca in Argentina wher about 73% of the country is listed as supporting one of the other. Or the history between England and the Celtic nations which goes back centuries or the India-Pakistan rivalry with all the recent history behind it.

In terms of how much victory matters to the supporters the Ohio-Michigan one may be the biggest in North America, but pales compared to the largest on the world stage.

Not only is it NOT the best rivalry in all of sports...or in US sports...it's not even the greatest rivalry in NCAA football.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army-Navy_Game

As for the game...what a snoozefest. As a fan of neither team, I could hardly stay awake. If you expect me to get excited about your rivalry, you're going to have to do much better than that.

The Army-Navy game would be far more exciting if either team were to have actually mattered at any point since World War II.

You've just had people pointing out the history with regards of the Toledo war. You've referred to the rivalry as 'brutal' and mentioned riots etc. Plus you've got a limited number of people interested in it. Compare that to River Plate and Boca in Argentina wher about 73% of the country is listed as supporting one of the other. Or the history between England and the Celtic nations which goes back centuries or the India-Pakistan rivalry with all the recent history behind it.

The Toledo War is an irrelevant event that was forgotten until someone dragged it up well after the rivalry started, and these other large world rivalries are, once more, not borne of sports, but of politics. Debases them somewhat, turns them into mere proxies for external conflict, rather than actual sports rivalries in my opinion.

I would challenge the influence of these rivalries if the ethnic and political animosities did not exist.

In terms of how much victory matters to the supporters the Ohio-Michigan one may be the biggest in North America, but pales compared to the largest on the world stage.

Once again, it's not driven by politics, unlike the soccer rivalries you and others have provided. It is a pure sports rivalry, and the Toledo War has nothing to do with it.

The Toledo War is an irrelevant event that was forgotten until someone dragged it up well after the rivalry started, and these other large world rivalries are, once more, not borne of sports, but of politics. Debases them somewhat, turns them into mere proxies for external conflict, rather than actual sports rivalries in my opinion.

I would challenge the influence of these rivalries if the ethnic and political animosities did not exist.



Once again, it's not driven by politics, unlike the soccer rivalries you and others have provided. It is a pure sports rivalry, and the Toledo War has nothing to do with it.

How are you judging sporting rivalries? And I also cited several Brazillian football rivalries that are purely sporting in origins. In terms of fan emnity, how much it matters to the supporters to win, number of supporters?

If the geographical situation didn't exist would this rivalry exist?

I wish American sports had the political overtones of soccer rivalries.
Hell, I wish my local university HAD a rival. I mean, yeah, Tennessee for womens basketball, but Uconn seems to have nothing in terms of local rivalries.

They sometimes do in some ways.

For example, both the Cal/Stanford and UCLA/USC rivalries are between public and private universities. This intensifies the rivalry beyond what I think it would be otherwise, almost a sort of mini-class war.

Another example of this sort of resentment is the rivalry between Ole' Miss and Mississippi State (http://media.www.reflector-online.com/media/storage/paper938/news/2005/04/22/Opinion/Msuole.Miss.Rivalry.Explained-2539258.shtml)

How are you judging sporting rivalries? And I also cited several Brazillian football rivalries that are purely sporting in origins. In terms of fan emnity, how much it matters to the supporters to win, number of supporters?

Number of supporters? Well, there are likely millions of supporters behind each side, with each school having produced hundreds of thousands of active alumni, and hundreds of thousands more directly associated with those alumni. Unaffiliated fans number in the millions for both sides as well, although I doubt that anyone has gone so far as to research how that element operates.

On the other hand, fan emnity results in serious physical danger to the persons and property fans of the other team when they are attending an away game. In 2002, for example (before the overwhelming police presence was properly utilized), there were multiple reported assaults on Michigan fans, and even more reports of destroyed property (the dreaded flipped cars) for those unlucky enough to have Michigan tags, but not with a pair of OSU related vanity plates.

If the geographical situation didn't exist would this rivalry exist?

Because conferences are organized geographically, without the geographic proximity we would likely not be rivals because we would likely not play each other regularly.

Number of supporters? Well, there are likely millions of supporters behind each side, with each school having produced hundreds of thousands of active alumni, and hundreds of thousands more directly associated with those alumni. Unaffiliated fans number in the millions for both sides as well, although I doubt that anyone has gone so far as to research how that element operates.
Compare that to interntational rivalries though, India's 1 billion against Pakistan's hundred's of millions. River Plate and Boca with about 30 million or so supporters in Argentina alone.


On the other hand, fan emnity results in serious physical danger to the persons and property fans of the other team when they are attending an away game. In 2002, for example (before the overwhelming police presence was properly utilized), there were multiple reported assaults on Michigan fans, and even more reports of destroyed property (the dreaded flipped cars) for those unlucky enough to have Michigan tags, but not with a pair of OSU related vanity plates.

So Americans are just as uncivilized as the rest of us it's just they have a more powerful police force. But in terms of fan emnity and riots etc it hardly rates compared to some of the most bitter ones in the world, example the Brazil or Eastern European club rivalries.


Because conferences are organized geographically, without the geographic proximity we would likely not be rivals because we would likely not play each other regularly.
And the geographical proximity adds nothing to the rivalry?

So we are agreed. Americans need passports to put their school rivalries into some form of context.

Compare that to interntational rivalries though, India's 1 billion against Pakistan's hundred's of millions. River Plate and Boca with about 30 million or so supporters in Argentina alone.

But once again, that's a pre-existing socio-political dispute. The issue at hand with River Plate and Boca in el Superclasico is borne out of the fact that River Plate is an upper class institution, whilst the Juniors are a working class institution. Once again, it is a debased proxy for class conflict.


So Americans are just as uncivilized as the rest of us it's just they have a more powerful police force. But in terms of fan emnity and riots etc it hardly rates compared to some of the most bitter ones in the world, example the Brazil or Eastern European club rivalries.

Hardly, you're just blowing hot air.

Furthermore, looking at how this singular event is a near total exception to the rule of reasonably well behaved student populations, it further highlights the intensity of the rivalry.

And the geographical proximity adds nothing to the rivalry?

There are no such similar rivalries between Ohio State and any of its other conference members. Penn State, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan State and Wisconsin are all regional teams, Michigan stands out as uniquely hated.

So we are agreed. Americans need passports to put their school rivalries into some form of context.

Turning sports into a socio-political conflict debases the event. I would much rather not have it be an issue of such, and remain an issue of my identity with my university.

Turning sports into a socio-political conflict debases the event. I would much rather not have it be an issue of such, and remain an issue of my identity with my university.

Except for most people it's not an issue of identity with a university. When I was in the Army and met a soldier from Ohio the conversation would immediately turn into a pissing contest about football and our respective states. This happened with every single Ohioan I met who had identified himself as such, no exceptions. None of them had attended OSU, nor had I attended UM. In fact, some of them weren't really serious football fans, nor am I, but it was just the generally accepted way to talk shit.

And can we forget such OSU classics as

We don't give a damn for the whole state of Michigan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx5TVBf6cWM)

Bomb Ann Arbor Now (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwGXMryTbwE)

This would go along with the "just sporting rivalry" idea if they didn't go on about bombing a bunch of other cities in Michigan. The line "then bomb Lansing, capital of sin. Blow up the entire state, death to Michigan!"

Despite outer appearances, it's generally a good natured rivalry, but the rivalry is between the two states, it's just that the rivalry manifests itself most strongly and visibly between these two universities.

i like chicago's smug superiority even when all of our teams are losing

Not much compared to the long history England has with the Celtic Nations or Australia, India and Pakistan have with each other, or France and Germany have.

You're right. But India and Pakistan, France and Germany, and England and Ireland think about other things besides cricket. With Michigan and Ohio, a large part of the students' brains are dedicated to football. It's like a religion.

Turning sports into a socio-political conflict debases the event. I would much rather not have it be an issue of such, and remain an issue of my identity with my university.

Fine. But you cant then stand over a claim that its the biggest rivalry in world sport. It remains localised to your alumni and one other. So to say its bigger than an Old Firm is laughable.

Fine. But you cant then stand over a claim that its the biggest rivalry in world sport. It remains localised to your alumni and one other. So to say its bigger than an Old Firm is laughable.

It's not localized to the Alumni, though. It's associated with large swaths of people across the Midwest who would otherwise be unaffiliated with either school. American college football crosses boundaries, class, race, age, religion, whatever. To pilfer a metaphor: It is total war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srK6nRDdU_s&feature=related - Dead Schembechler's.

It's not localized to the Alumni, though. It's associated with large swaths of people across the Midwest who would otherwise be unaffiliated with either school. American college football crosses boundaries, class, race, age, religion, whatever. To pilfer a metaphor: It is total war.

As opposed to the Red Star Belgrade v Dinamo Zagreb game which helped start and actual war?

Grab your passport and head to Europe. Then talk about 'Total war' in sport. No offence, but you sound like the typical American who has never been 30 miles from their house.

As opposed to the Red Star Belgrade v Dinamo Zagreb game which helped start and actual war?

Once again, pre-existing socio-political factors make this a rivalry, not sports. It's just a proxy for people's pre-existing hatreds for each other.

Grab your passport and head to Europe. Then talk about 'Total war' in sport. No offence, but you sound like the typical American who has never been 30 miles from their house.

Really? You sound like the stereotypical self-absorbed Eurotrash, who prattles on about how those degenerate Americans don't know anything about the rest of the world. Who uses these idiotic American stereotypes like they're some sort of truism. Who likes to act like he has some sort of superiority over other people, when really, they're just as puny, tiny and bigoted as the crappiest redneck in the backwoods of Carolina.

Once again, pre-existing socio-political factors make this a rivalry, not sports. It's just a proxy for people's pre-existing hatreds for each other.

You are the won who keeps bringing up the notion of 'War' in American sport. A bit of consistancy would be nice.

Really? You sound like the stereotypical self-absorbed Eurotrash, who prattles on about how those degenerate Americans don't know anything about the rest of the world. Who uses these idiotic American stereotypes like they're some sort of truism. Who likes to act like he has some sort of superiority over other people, when really, they're just as puny, tiny and bigoted as the crappiest redneck in the backwoods of Carolina.

I changed my mind. You are just a sap.

This Saturday will see the return of the greatest rivalry in all of sports.


Bollocks to that.

Do you watch Cricket, Football or Rugby?

I could provide any number of European derbies that surpass whatever you suggest as the "greatest rivalry"; Milan/ Inter, Roma/Lazio, United/ Liverpool, Barcelona/ Madrid, Spurs/ Arsenal, Rangers/ Celtic, not even giving consideration to the infinitely more violent and visceral South American derbies.

Then we consider Cricket; at least a billion are estimated to have watched the recent Pakistan/ India ODI series, and the Ashes are amongst the most famous sporting occassions on the planet.

Where Rugby is concerned, anybody/ England tends to be bloody fierce, especially Wales/ England. Poor bloody Taffs, they still got hammered in the Heineken cup...:D

You are the won who keeps bringing up the notion of 'War' in American sport. A bit of consistancy would be nice.

I am using war as an analogy, and if you are too thick to figure that out then you're probably too thick to understand the differences between "won" and "one". Oh, wait, you are.

I changed my mind. You are just a sap.

Read: "Nah, nah, nah, nah, boo, boo, I'm better than you-hoo."

How juvenile.

Bollocks to that.

Do you watch Cricket, Football or Rugby?

I could provide any number of European derbies that surpass whatever you suggest as the "greatest rivalry"; Milan/ Inter, Roma/Lazio, United/ Liverpool, Barcelona/ Madrid, Spurs/ Arsenal, Rangers/ Celtic, not even giving consideration to the infinitely more violent and visceral South American derbies.

Then we consider Cricket; at least a billion are estimated to have watched the recent Pakistan/ India ODI series, and the Ashes are amongst the most famous sporting occassions on the planet.

Where Rugby is concerned, anybody/ England tends to be bloody fierce, especially Wales/ England. Poor bloody Taffs, they still got hammered in the Heineken cup...:D

Once again, you don't get how total this rivalry is. It transcends sports, to be all inclusive.

This thread has become the same sort of worthless tripe that any thread about American sports becomes, because some people aren't willing to admit that something different might just be interesting and intense. It's that same Eurocentric viewpoint that irritates so greatly.

I'm done with this pathetic thread.

This thread has become the same sort of worthless tripe that any thread about American sports becomes, because some people aren't willing to admit that something different might just be interesting and intense. It's that same Eurocentric viewpoint that irritates so greatly.

I'm done with this pathetic thread.
And I'm done with your fucking Buckeyes.

:sniper:

Oh yeah, and fuck IU!

This thread has become the same sort of worthless tripe that any thread about American sports becomes, because some people aren't willing to admit that something different might just be interesting and intense. It's that same Eurocentric viewpoint that irritates so greatly.

I'm done with this pathetic thread.

Despite the fact South American sports were mentioned by all and African by others?

Take your ball and run away home then