NationStates Jolt Archive

Spanish royal sex cartoon banned (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6909047.stm)

I didn't find any earlier thread on this subject, so either it's new to the world (hard to believe considering it's on the BBC) or it somehow just isn't considered attention worthy.

When Danish cartoonists published pictures of the prophet Muhammed wearing a bomb for a turban and Muslims were outraged by that, there were just plenty of people across the world and NSG who were defending the cartoonist's "Freedom of Expression" and proclaiming t3h 3b1l m05l3mz need to grow a thicker skin.

Where are those people now? Why hasn't there been a massive rally of people defending these cartoonists' freedom of expression? Where are the people saying that the Spanish Royal Family need to grow a thicker skin?

Or is it just freedom of expression only when you're satirizing Muslims and their beliefs?

When Danish cartoonists published pictures of the prophet Muhammed wearing a bomb for a turban and Muslims were outraged by that, there were just plenty of people across the world and NSG who were defending the cartoonist's "Freedom of Expression" and proclaiming t3h 3b1l m05l3mz need to grow a thicker skin.

To be fair, I don't see people burning down embassies or killing people over this.

That said, banning the cartoon is stupid.

To be fair, I don't see people burning down embassies or killing people over this.

That said, banning the cartoon is stupid.

To be fair, the Muslim populace couldn't imprison the cartoonist and order every copy of the cartoon confiscated either.

What's good for the goose should be good for the gander as well.

Or is it just freedom of expression only when you're satirizing Muslims and their beliefs?

Yes.

And on with all the claims of massive Muslim violence over Danish cartoons and blah blah blah blah.

Pah, more censorship. Censorship is bad.

I actually want to see that cartoon now.


Perv :p

To be fair, I don't see people burning down embassies or killing people over this.

That said, banning the cartoon is stupid.

Who was killed?

I actually want to see that cartoon now.

To be fair, the Muslim populace couldn't imprison the cartoonist and order every copy of the cartoon confiscated either.

True.

What's good for the goose should be good for the gander as well.

I'm not disagreeing. IMO, censorship is always made of 100% phail.

Who was killed?

Quite a few people. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_and_human_costs_of_the_Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy#Social_consequences)

I actually want to see that cartoon now.

If it was any good there would probably be more protests.

So, you're pissed off because people showed their support for freedom of speech for a highly publicized incident, but didn't for an incident that isn't highly publicized outside of Spain? Perhaps many people didn't know this was happening? There are many incidences of censorship; some get more media attention and those are the ones people will rally around.

I'm not pissed. Merely pointing out people's selectiveness and hypocrisy. And given that the link is to a BBC article on the subject, I hardly consider it to be an obscure story.

If it was a Turkish cartoonist being charged with "Insulting Turkishness" as opposed to a Spanish cartoonist being charged with "Insulting the Spanish Royal Family," of course it'll get more international attention. Didn't you know that t3h 3b1l m05l3mz are always good for ratings grabbers?

So, you're pissed off because people showed their support for freedom of speech for a highly publicized incident, but didn't for an incident that isn't highly publicized outside of Spain? Perhaps many people didn't know this was happening? There are many incidences of censorship; some get more media attention and those are the ones people will rally around.

Quite a few people. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_and_human_costs_of_the_Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons_controversy#Social_consequences)

Almost every single one of those deaths was not directly related to the cartoons, the majority of them being protesters killed by the police or possibly stampeded on. There were a few murders seemingly perpetrated because of the cartoon, however it is doubtless that there were other factors involved as well. As well, the cartoonist wasn't physically hurt, so just about all of those deaths are indirectly related to the cartoons at best.

Depends on how crude it was, if it was just bashing them I say put it on, but if it was sexually crude I would say no.

I actually want to see that cartoon now.

seen it

I actually want to see that cartoon now.

Linked, because it's so utterly horrible and perverse (http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1188/cartoonmockbe0.png)

Yeah. About 30 seconds in paint.

The difference being that there is no Danish law prhoibiting that cartoon, whereas there is a Spanish law prohibiting this cartoon.

Not that the Spanish law is good or correct, or even that I support it...quite the opposite, actually. I think it is bullshit. But thems the breaks, and it isn't my place to dictate Spanish law.

And yes, the Spanish Royal Family does need to grow a thicker skin. Which is an ironic statement, considering their history of hemophilia...

Linked, because it's so utterly horrible and perverse (http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1188/cartoonmockbe0.png)

Yeah. About 30 seconds in paint.

the real thing may as well been this

Almost every single one of those deaths was not directly related to the cartoons, the majority of them being protesters killed by the police or possibly stampeded on. There were a few murders seemingly perpetrated because of the cartoon, however it is doubtless that there were other factors involved as well. As well, the cartoonist wasn't physically hurt, so just about all of those deaths are indirectly related to the cartoons at best.

Even so, people did get killed.

The difference being that there is no Danish law prhoibiting that cartoon, whereas there is a Spanish law prohibiting this cartoon.

Not that the Spanish law is good or correct, or even that I support it...quite the opposite, actually. I think it is bullshit. But thems the breaks, and it isn't my place to dictate Spanish law.

When Orhan Pamuk and Elif Shafak were charged with Insulting Turkishness, nobody said "Thems the Breaks" about that. Instead they bitched about how the government of Turkey was way fucking out of line.

And yes, the Spanish Royal Family does need to grow a thicker skin. Which is an ironic statement, considering their history of hemophilia...

Agreed. The British Royal family likely went through just as much if not a hell of a lot worse, especially with the Windsors themselves providing the ammunition for a lot of satire. But nobody's been arrested over in London for that.

When Orhan Pamuk and Elif Shafak were charged with Insulting Turkishness, nobody said "Thems the Breaks" about that. Instead they bitched about how the government of Turkey was way fucking out of line.I did, actually.
Know the laws of your country. If you disagree, get them changed. If you choose not to abide by them, be prepared to fight, and potentially lose.

I actually enjoy it when people get arrested under arcane laws...it tends to create dialogue which tends to lead to progress.

Do I hate the law? Yes. Is it my place to dictate Spanish or Turkish law? Nope. That is for the Spaniards and Turks.



Agreed. The British Royal family likely went through just as much if not a hell of a lot worse, especially with the Windsors themselves providing the ammunition for a lot of satire. But nobody's been arrested over in London for that.

England also does not have laws explicitly prohibiting such satire. Spain does.

Universal free speech is great. But it doesn't come without struggle. It is time for the Spaniards to fight their battle. Me bitching about it from across the ocean in my apartment doesn't do much aside from making me feel like I'm being heard. Or read, as the case may be.

Linked, because it's so utterly horrible and perverse (http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1188/cartoonmockbe0.png)

Yeah. About 30 seconds in paint.

hot

The difference being that there is no Danish law prhoibiting that cartoon,
Actually, it arguably violated laws against hate speech.

Actually, it arguably violated laws against hate speech.

Interesting. Well, anyway, as far as I know, they weren't prosecuted under those laws.

It should not be banned. No political cartoon should be.

Heh. It's like being in a Wizard of Id cartoon.

The Prince is a Fink! :D

It should not be banned. No political cartoon should be.

What about false and damaging ones?

And also politicans are people too, how'd you like it someone drew a pic of you and your spouse/parter getting on and then copies it hundreds of times and published it?

What about false and damaging ones?

And also politicans are people too, how'd you like it someone drew a pic of you and your spouse/parter getting on and then copies it hundreds of times and published it?

I'd want royalties. :D

It should not be banned. No political cartoon should be.

QFT

It should not be banned. No political cartoon should be.

What about the ones that rape the artistic medium to death? Can we ban those?

It should not be banned. No political cartoon should be.

So if someone made a political cartoon for example promoting Nazis and glorifying holocaust it would be ok to publish it widely?


Considering the level of freedom of speech (http://news.sawf.org/Gossip/45018.aspx) in America somehow I doubt that the idea would fly ;)

It is time for the Spaniards to fight their battle. Me bitching about it from across the ocean in my apartment doesn't do much aside from making me feel like I'm being heard. Or read, as the case may be.

Heh. Do you really think the Spanish CARE? Most of them are probably for the cartoon being banned.

So if someone made a political cartoon for example promoting Nazis and glorifying holocaust it would be ok to publish it widely?

Sure. It would make great kindling for firewood; great toilet paper; or great for cleaning up cat vomit.

Heh. Do you really think the Spanish CARE? Most of them are probably for the cartoon being banned.
Then that is their choice. The beauty of democracy and self-determination. Society dictates what is and is not acceptable...if you disagree, then fight your battle. If you don't want to fight, enjoy your life on your knees.

So if someone made a political cartoon for example promoting Nazis and glorifying holocaust it would be ok to publish it widely?


Considering the level of freedom of speech (http://news.sawf.org/Gossip/45018.aspx) in America somehow I doubt that the idea would fly ;)
A) yes, it would be fine to publish
B) the opinions of a group of individual citizens and a petition to a private advertising agency in no way reflect upon freedom of speech. The government is not restricting the ad.
If you are going to claim the US has limited free speech, atleast cite the FCC or proposed ban on flag burning...not some idiots petitioning some other idiots entirely outside the realm of the government.

Edit: actually, I take that back. According to your article, and I quote:
However, the billboard has received the backing of city officials.

If anything, the US government is encouraging free speech.

Society dictates what is and is not acceptable...

Sod society. People should be allowed to anything they want, provided they aren't hurting anyone else or violating anyone's rights, regardless of whether or not "society" finds it acceptable.

lol elJuevez

http://www.eljueves.es/revista/imagenes/portadas/1581.png

Linked, because it's so utterly horrible and perverse (http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1188/cartoonmockbe0.png)

Yeah. About 30 seconds in paint. Be careful, the Spanish Gestapo is looking for the smoking gun.. I mean smoking pencil.
They want the guy who draw.

Spanish royal sex cartoon banned (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6909047.stm)

I didn't find any earlier thread on this subject, so either it's new to the world (hard to believe considering it's on the BBC) or it somehow just isn't considered attention worthy.

When Danish cartoonists published pictures of the prophet Muhammed wearing a bomb for a turban and Muslims were outraged by that, there were just plenty of people across the world and NSG who were defending the cartoonist's "Freedom of Expression" and proclaiming t3h 3b1l m05l3mz need to grow a thicker skin.

Where are those people now? Why hasn't there been a massive rally of people defending these cartoonists' freedom of expression? Where are the people saying that the Spanish Royal Family need to grow a thicker skin?

Or is it just freedom of expression only when you're satirizing Muslims and their beliefs?

Heh a post complaining that people are not complaining. Fuckin' sweet!

Gaunthier, why are you getting so worked up about this? Are you Spanish?

As it shows no genitalia, I doubt it can be even dubbed pornographic....In fact, it was (in the context it was made) mildly funny, which was considerably more than can be said about the poxy Mohammed cartoons, where were shite..............

http://www.throneout.com/images/160.png

Gaunthier, why are you getting so worked up about this? Are you Spanish?I am not Spanish (I dont have to be).. and I second this thread

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1278/874526967_b6c1d05d95.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaumedurgell/874526967/

As it shows no genitalia, I doubt it can be even dubbed pornographic....In fact, it was (in the context it was made) mildly funny, which was considerably more than can be said about the poxy Mohammed cartoons, where were shite..............

http://www.throneout.com/images/160.png

Caption:

Title: Gov to give 2500 euros per new born.

Prince Charles (or whatever his name is): Do you realize that if I get you pregnant, this is the closest -in my life- I will ever get to "working" :)

As it shows no genitalia, I doubt it can be even dubbed pornographic....In fact, it was (in the context it was made) mildly funny, which was considerably more than can be said about the poxy Mohammed cartoons, where were shite..............

http://www.throneout.com/images/160.png

How is this offensive?

How is this offensive?the Spanish royal are above the Law.. and they cannot be pictured like mere mortals. Censorship is on.

Depends on how crude it was, if it was just bashing them I say put it on, but if it was sexually crude I would say no.

Er, why?

Censoring that was absurd. Of course, it's Spanish law, but hopefully the Spaniards will react and try to get the law changed.

Spanish royal sex cartoon banned (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6909047.stm)

I didn't find any earlier thread on this subject, so either it's new to the world (hard to believe considering it's on the BBC) or it somehow just isn't considered attention worthy.

When Danish cartoonists published pictures of the prophet Muhammed wearing a bomb for a turban and Muslims were outraged by that, there were just plenty of people across the world and NSG who were defending the cartoonist's "Freedom of Expression" and proclaiming t3h 3b1l m05l3mz need to grow a thicker skin.

Where are those people now? Why hasn't there been a massive rally of people defending these cartoonists' freedom of expression? Where are the people saying that the Spanish Royal Family need to grow a thicker skin?

Or is it just freedom of expression only when you're satirizing Muslims and their beliefs?

Well *ahem* according to slander/libel laws you can say anything you want about a person, so long as they aren't alive. If they are, then it's slander/libel. Mohamed isn't alive, the crown prince is. This is what Max Baer jr. found out when he got upset about the movie Cinderella Man, in which his father (who was actually quite nice) is depicted as a loathsome monster.

That said, I would personally afford more freedom to those who mock politicians. I think both cartoons should be perfectly legal.

Sod society. People should be allowed to anything they want, provided they aren't hurting anyone else or violating anyone's rights, regardless of whether or not "society" finds it acceptable.

Idealism is spectacular and all, but I'd prefer to live in the realm of reality.

I can run down the street naked, and when the cops show up, I can tell them "I should be able to do what I want". That doesn't mean I won't be arrested.

I agree that people should be able to do what they want...that just isn't the case.

Sorry, this hasn't been on American new anywhere. If I don't know about it I can't be outraged about it.

btw, I am outraged. Fucking Royals need get off their noble asses and stop exploiting the workers.

To be fair, the Muslim populace couldn't imprison the cartoonist and order every copy of the cartoon confiscated either.

What's good for the goose should be good for the gander as well. I don't think they would've have imprisoned the Danish Artist...

So if someone made a political cartoon for example promoting Nazis and glorifying holocaust it would be ok to publish it widely?


Considering the level of freedom of speech (http://news.sawf.org/Gossip/45018.aspx) in America somehow I doubt that the idea would fly ;) the Government wouldn't have pulled it.

The Papers could CHOOSE to publish it, but it would be their choice.

Those offended by the publishing of those pictures can then respond with lawsuits to the papers.

Just like your link article. the PEOPLE are pettioning to take it down. not the Government.

but this happened in spain. so who knows what their stance on free speech is.

Found this in the article.

Slandering or defaming the Spanish royal family carries a two-year prison sentence.

so the Spanish Government had the right to pull out the cartoon as well as give jail time.

Where are those people now? Why hasn't there been a massive rally of people defending these cartoonists' freedom of expression? Where are the people saying that the Spanish Royal Family need to grow a thicker skin?

Or is it just freedom of expression only when you're satirizing Muslims and their beliefs?
Good question. Maybe it's because people have gotten used to the censorship of sex. Either way, it's absolutely outrageous that the guy is being threatened with a jail sentence.

Besides, it's not defamation to insult someone. You have to show it does damage to their reputation. To be honest, I'm far more annoyed by the crack-down than I am by the initial image.

This happens to be the 21st century and in my view there's actually no use for royalty anymore. Kick the parasites out, for Reason's sake!

OMG! and some of you think America is bad!?

OMG! and some of you think America is bad!?

Saying "omg" doesnt help us out any....