NationStates Jolt Archive

As an active, online Ron Paul supporter who likes to seek out debate with his detractors, I can’t tell you how many times I and others like me have encountered the "He’s a closet Nazi/Racist/Fascist" nonsense. I have literally lost track of how many times I’ve sighed at yet another blatant attempt at character assassination—all stemming from the same worn out issue surrounding his newsletter in the 80’s; an issue which has been thoroughly explained/debunked ... and yet this drivel persists. Obviously, many on the Right and Left feel threatened by him and his burgeoning popularity, and they’re grasping for some potential crack in his armor, something that will stain the entire perception of him and his motivations because, for a lot of people out there, Ron Paul is almost too good to be true. Its almost as if people want to believe he’s a closet racist or neo-Nazi ... It would humanize him. The existence of someone like Ron Paul, agree or disagree with him, essentially serves to remind us of how compromised and debased the vast majority of our representatives are ... and that reflects on us, doesn't it?

When people see a man who says he is the champion of freedom unabashedly accepting money from groups who one would not associate with such a message, they think “something smells” and look for a “there” there. I think this is due to our loss of consciousness of what non-politically correct notions of liberty really amount to, but it remains a detriment to his accessibility and trustworthiness. Through generations of political whoremongering, we’ve become accustomed to the idea of politicians as panderers and implements-for-hire, and many of us don’t know how to asses a candidacy that doesn’t fit that mold. We don’t know how to interpret a man who said, standing before an Arab-American political consortium at which he was invited to speak, “Someone asked me if I had prepared a special speech to address this organization, and I said no, it’s the same speech I give everywhere.” And it was.

To answer the constant slurs directed at Ron Paul, I give an example of why “guilt by association” is a fallacy (which is sadly no longer self-evident).

Ron Paul supports dismantling the Fed (in theory) because he believes fiat currency is bad monetary policy, and inflationary central banking is destructive to the long term sustainability of the middle class and economic prosperity. White supremacists want to dismantle the Fed because they believe international banking institutions are controlled by a secretive cabal of Zionist Jews who want to control the world, and being anti-Semitic, they think this is a terrible development. A rational mind can clearly see why Ron Paul would garner the support of white supremacists and neo-Nazis for reasons wholly unrelated to what Ron Paul actually stands for. It is a simple case of conspiracy-minded “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”. This holds true for virtually any “fringe” group expressing discomforting support for Ron Paul (9/11 Truthers, neo-Confederates etc) the common ground all of these disparate groups, along with a great many “normal” Americans, share with Ron Paul is “Anti-Establishmentarianism”. The Establishmentarians don’t know what to make of this abrupt groundswell, and so they predictably lash out with smears designed to keep Ron Paul and his ideas/philosophy at the margins of the national discourse.

Thing is, it’s not working, this is taking on a life of its own, and it’s an incredible political adventure in the making. Sometimes I feel like I’m fighting with a modern William Wallace against the forces of tyranny. It’s exhilarating, and addictive. When Ron Paul is eventually defeated, (or killed, if he gets too close), this thing he tapped into will continue on. We’re already talking about the future. People are being inspired on a massive scale. Young adults I’ve encountered are already floating ideas of running for local or state office as Ron Paul Republicans. Children of the 80’s are living “Goldwater Redux”. This should be a positive development for anyone who calls themselves conservative. Nevertheless, it isn’t—we get more hostility from Neocons than from the Left. When can we all admit these people were never conservatives to begin with, just carpet-baggers from LBJ’s Guns and Butter Brigade? I really think its time to hang these neo- Jacobins and Christian Theocrats out to dry, and pick up the mantle of the American Experiment. No one else seems to be using it.

-The Daily Dish

He sort of looks like President George W. Bush.

As an active, online Ron Paul supporter who likes to seek out debate with his detractors, I can’t tell you how many times I and others like me have encountered the "He’s a closet Nazi/Racist/Fascist" nonsense. I have literally lost track of how many times I’ve sighed at yet another blatant attempt at character assassination—all stemming from the same worn out issue surrounding his newsletter in the 80’s; an issue which has been thoroughly explained/debunked ... and yet this drivel persists.

remind me of the explanation for his john bircher, new world order, patriot movement, conspiracy theory nonsense again.

As an active, online Ron Paul supporter who likes to seek out debate with his detractors, I can’t tell you how many times I and others like me have encountered the "He’s a closet Nazi/Racist/Fascist" nonsense. I have literally lost track of how many times I’ve sighed at yet another blatant attempt at character assassination—all stemming from the same worn out issue surrounding his newsletter in the 80’s; an issue which has been thoroughly explained/debunked ... and yet this drivel persists. Obviously, many on the Right and Left feel threatened by him and his burgeoning popularity, and they’re grasping for some potential crack in his armor, something that will stain the entire perception of him and his motivations because, for a lot of people out there, Ron Paul is almost too good to be true. Its almost as if people want to believe he’s a closet racist or neo-Nazi ... It would humanize him. The existence of someone like Ron Paul, agree or disagree with him, essentially serves to remind us of how compromised and debased the vast majority of our representatives are ... and that reflects on us, doesn't it?

When people see a man who says he is the champion of freedom unabashedly accepting money from groups who one would not associate with such a message, they think “something smells” and look for a “there” there. I think this is due to our loss of consciousness of what non-politically correct notions of liberty really amount to, but it remains a detriment to his accessibility and trustworthiness. Through generations of political whoremongering, we’ve become accustomed to the idea of politicians as panderers and implements-for-hire, and many of us don’t know how to asses a candidacy that doesn’t fit that mold. We don’t know how to interpret a man who said, standing before an Arab-American political consortium at which he was invited to speak, “Someone asked me if I had prepared a special speech to address this organization, and I said no, it’s the same speech I give everywhere.” And it was.

To answer the constant slurs directed at Ron Paul, I give an example of why “guilt by association” is a fallacy (which is sadly no longer self-evident).

Ron Paul supports dismantling the Fed (in theory) because he believes fiat currency is bad monetary policy, and inflationary central banking is destructive to the long term sustainability of the middle class and economic prosperity. White supremacists want to dismantle the Fed because they believe international banking institutions are controlled by a secretive cabal of Zionist Jews who want to control the world, and being anti-Semitic, they think this is a terrible development. A rational mind can clearly see why Ron Paul would garner the support of white supremacists and neo-Nazis for reasons wholly unrelated to what Ron Paul actually stands for. It is a simple case of conspiracy-minded “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”. This holds true for virtually any “fringe” group expressing discomforting support for Ron Paul (9/11 Truthers, neo-Confederates etc) the common ground all of these disparate groups, along with a great many “normal” Americans, share with Ron Paul is “Anti-Establishmentarianism”. The Establishmentarians don’t know what to make of this abrupt groundswell, and so they predictably lash out with smears designed to keep Ron Paul and his ideas/philosophy at the margins of the national discourse.

Thing is, it’s not working, this is taking on a life of its own, and it’s an incredible political adventure in the making. Sometimes I feel like I’m fighting with a modern William Wallace against the forces of tyranny. It’s exhilarating, and addictive. When Ron Paul is eventually defeated, (or killed, if he gets too close), this thing he tapped into will continue on. We’re already talking about the future. People are being inspired on a massive scale. Young adults I’ve encountered are already floating ideas of running for local or state office as Ron Paul Republicans. Children of the 80’s are living “Goldwater Redux”. This should be a positive development for anyone who calls themselves conservative. Nevertheless, it isn’t—we get more hostility from Neocons than from the Left. When can we all admit these people were never conservatives to begin with, just carpet-baggers from LBJ’s Guns and Butter Brigade? I really think its time to hang these neo- Jacobins and Christian Theocrats out to dry, and pick up the mantle of the American Experiment. No one else seems to be using it.

-The Daily Dish


cut & paste spam... how about some of your own thoughts, poster?

I actually am a free-market libertarian, and I still think Ron Paul is a fraud. He's not a champion of freedom, he's a champion of state rights. As far as I can tell, he wouldn't mind 50 little North Koreas as long as Washington keeps out of it.

Then there's his stance on immigration, which is just so blantantly contradictory to libertarianism that I seriously have to wonder whether the guy understands the underlying mindset behind this particular ideology.

All in all, he seems to me like a washed version of one of those hermits living in forest huts proclaiming he can eat all the squirrels he wants and therefore needs no government. The whole newsletter stuff is just one unimportant piece of a much larger picture. Ultimately he'd do more damage to "the cause" by being in power than by being ignored.

Ah wait? So a couple rednecks don't like the feds so Ron is not a racist because.... :confused:

Oh lawd, you right-wingers are as bad as Trots and Maoists, always at each other's throats....

Ron Paul supports dismantling the Fed (in theory) because he believes fiat currency is bad monetary policy, and inflationary central banking is destructive to the long term sustainability of the middle class and economic prosperity.
Ron Paul couldn't give two shits about the middle class or economic prosperity. He would hand over the reigns to the big corporations without any government oversight before you could go "what the fuck was that?"

Ron Paul couldn't give two shits about the middle class or economic prosperity. He would hand over the reigns to the big corporations without any government oversight before you could go "what the fuck was that?"
Huh? By dismantling the Fed?

I think there are enough things wrong with Paul to criticise him without using the c-word.

i suppose youre right.

what is the sense of dissing ron paul over racist statements made 20+ years ago when his current politics suck?

to use your example, why should i care that antisemites love ron paul when his desire to dismantle the federal reserve would be a disaster? i dont need to worry whether or not he is in bed with racists when he advocates terrible policies. that is enough to never vote for him. the racist overtones is just icing on the cake, not the cake itself.

I actually am a free-market libertarian, and I still think Ron Paul is a fraud. He's not a champion of freedom, he's a champion of state rights. As far as I can tell, he wouldn't mind 50 little North Koreas as long as Washington keeps out of it.

this is precisely what the 'anti-government' patriot movement types see in him, and in american libertarianism more generally. they don't want liberty, they want those damn feds to stop preventing them from enacting their fascist policies. and since he not only has their support, but actively courts it, the idea that the OP pushes, that its all just guilt by association, provides no excuse at all. the association, after all, is hardly an irrelevant one, as required to make the association fallacious.

Then there's his stance on immigration, which is just so blantantly contradictory to libertarianism that I seriously have to wonder whether the guy understands the underlying mindset behind this particular ideology.

gotta play to the base, you know

I dont think it really matters since he hasnt got a hope in hell of actually getting elected.

I don't know, he's gaining a lot of support, and can raise $4 million in a single weekend. He may soon have more support than Rudy and Mike.

I dont think it really matters since he hasnt got a hope in hell of actually getting elected.

I frankly don't understand his popularity. His paeans to states rights are beginning to remind me of a certain Strom Thurmond, and he isn't even a libertarian by any reckoning. So long as Washington isn't involved, he could care less if each of the states had their own NKVD/Gestapo.

I don't know, he's gaining a lot of support, and can raise $4 million in a single weekend. He may soon have more support than Rudy and Mike.

But he really hasnt got a prayer of gaining the republican nomination.
End of race.

"...the 16th amendment which, by the way, has been questioned by some historians as not being correctly ratified."
- ron paul and any random 'patriot movement' nutjob (though few of those get to read things into the congressional record)

Lets not forget this lil beauty wherein Paul suggests that blacks are politically unaware...

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2007/05/ron_pauls_past_.html

But he really hasnt got a prayer of gaining the republican nomination.
End of race.

Hehe, I really would love to see the Republican not nominate him. If my predictions are accurate by the time the Republican Nomination Party comes along, Ron Paul would be enjoying support for about 40-50% of the party. It'll be interesting to see what happens when they feel disenfranchised.

Politicians in general suck.

Ron Paul and his supporters are a joke by Anonymous.

If my predictions are accurate by the time the Republican Nomination Party comes along, Ron Paul would be enjoying support for about 40-50% of the party.

also, everyone will have a pony

also, everyone will have a pony

Yay! :)

also, everyone will have a pony

What if you are not republican?

Hmmm I wonder whose puppet the OP belongs?

What if you are not republican?

wishes are free, therefore all wishes can be betterized by increasing the number of people who receive ponies in them.

Hehe, I really would love to see the Republican not nominate him. If my predictions are accurate by the time the Republican Nomination Party comes along, Ron Paul would be enjoying support for about 40-50% of the party. It'll be interesting to see what happens when they feel disenfranchised.

Interesting, since there isnt a Rep frontrunner yet.
My guess is its gonna be between Hilary and Rudy, with Hillary winning by a large margin.

also, everyone will have a pony

Except immigrants. Who figures an immigrant's going to need a pony? Why would anybody come here if they need a pony?





Ignore this post. It's about nothing. (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Seinfeld#The_Pony_Remark_.5B2.2.5D)

I have given significant evidence regarding this issue that creates a much stronger argument than the above post, that does not provide any evidence, and depends upon the word of a politician who also provided no proof for his claims. If the above plagarism is worth posting, why was it not posted in the pre-existing thread? Were you attempting to avoid the substantive and accurate critiscism of "doctor" Paul's positions, connections, and past statements?

Perhaps you'd like to defend his New World Order Conpiracy theories? His "Once and Future Republic of Texas" comment? Maybe his assertion that all black people were crazy? His long-term connection to far right talk radio and far right organizations? His support of secessionist groups? His long term support FROM Neo Nazi and White Supremacist groups, and the fact that he has never tried to dissasociate himself from them?

I don't know, he's gaining a lot of support, and can raise $4 million in a single weekend. He may soon have more support than Rudy and Mike.

You use "may" as if you mean "it is possible" when in fact your belief of that would make you a degenerate Ron Paul Love Revolution Troofer whackjob.


Make NO MISTAKE

DAWKTER RON PAUL and the RON PAUL LOVE REVOLUTION stands for:

TROOF

PIRACY

GOLDEN NUGGETS

HALE BOPP

DAWKTER Ron has prescribed 500cL of Kool Aid, and you RonBot Paulistinians have had a double dose.

Its the Dennis Kucinich Pissant Spam Scum Mob all over again, a hoard of pea brained knuckle draggers who know, just k-n-o-w that the Only Man Who Can Save America will somehow break the bonds of < 3% support and become Pre-zee-dent of america.

Or, in DAWKTER Ron's case, shoo his 66,666 frothy mouthed supporters up to Constitution Heaven in the tail of Space Comet HALE BOPP.

My guess is its gonna be between Hilary and Rudy, with Hillary winning by a large margin.

That is the epitome of same shit, different asshole. Hopefully, there will either be a Republican congress for Hillary or a Democratic one for Rudy, but I'm not counting on it. Chances are, it will be rubber-stamp time all over again; perhaps we can set a new record for the US budget deficit this time around. I'm looking forward to the national debt exceeding the GDP of the entire country.

God damn...just God damn. Well, at least there's money to be made in shorting the US dollar.

That is the epitome of same shit, different asshole. Hopefully, there will either be a Republican congress for Hillary or a Democratic one for Rudy, but I'm not counting on it. Chances are, it will be rubber-stamp time all over again; perhaps we can set a new record for the US budget deficit this time around. I'm looking forward to the national debt exceeding the GDP of the entire country.

God damn...just God damn. Well, at least there's money to be made in shorting the US dollar.

Y'know, it's not too late to leave the country.

I plan to do so, as soon as possible. Things are going to Hell in a handbasket, and it's only going to get worse.

Y'know, it's not too late to leave the country.

I plan to do so, as soon as possible. Things are going to Hell in a handbasket, and it's only going to get worse.

I love the US too much to even consider it. I'd rather stay here and try to prevent things from getting worse than allow these assholes to ruin it any further. If we can avoid a rubber-stamp Congress, I'm pretty optimistic, but given the kind of shit the Democrats have already pulled, it's hard to believe that's going to happen.

I mean, the Democrats have managed to achieve lower approval ratings than when the Congress was under Republican control, a fiasco that cost us dearly over the past six years. I mean, seriously, how the hell do you screw up so badly in such a short time? Even the Republicans only really began to go downhill after the start of the Iraq war, yet the Democrats have successfully managed to torpedo themselves in less than a year. Not that I'm surprised; there was a reason why the Dems lost control back in 1994, and I'm pretty sure most of the same problems that dogged the party then are still around. About the only really, truly good things they've done so far are appropriate money for infrastructure and pass the America Competes Act, which is the only good piece of bipartisan legislation I've seen to date. The payoff from those should be pretty worthwhile, but it takes a lot to compensate for all the other crap.

I love the US too much to even consider it.

I love the U.S., too, but as you said...

I'd rather stay here and try to prevent things from getting worse than allow these assholes to ruin it any further. If we can avoid a rubber-stamp Congress, I'm pretty optimistic, but given the kind of shit the Democrats have already pulled, it's hard to believe that's going to happen.

(emphasis mine, obviously)

Ron Paul and his supporters are a joke by Anonymous.

This explains sooooooooo much.

Ron Paul smells like butt. :)

That is the epitome of same shit, different asshole. Hopefully, there will either be a Republican congress for Hillary or a Democratic one for Rudy, but I'm not counting on it. Chances are, it will be rubber-stamp time all over again; perhaps we can set a new record for the US budget deficit this time around. I'm looking forward to the national debt exceeding the GDP of the entire country.

God damn...just God damn. Well, at least there's money to be made in shorting the US dollar.


Why would you want an opposite allied Congress for the next president?
I can certainly understand your reluctance to see either of the two (or any of the "viable" candidates) in office, but why make it harder for either of them to acheive anything?

I say, give them all the rope they need to hang themselves.
Passing anything of worthy note will still take a 3/4 majority, wouldnt it?
That way, god forbid, some small token of good may just come out of our highest elected position in the country.

Obviously, many on the Right and Left feel threatened by him and his burgeoning popularity, and they’re grasping for some potential crack in his armor, something that will stain the entire perception of him and his motivations because, for a lot of people out there, Ron Paul is almost too good to be true.

Burgeoning popularity and a crack in the armor? Don't kid yourself. In the polls, he trails consistently behind Guiliani, Clinton, Obama, Edwards, and Romney. Libertarian support aside, he's got as much chance of winning the primaries as a goldfish does.

Burgeoning popularity and a crack in the armor? Don't kid yourself. In the polls, he trails consistently behind Guiliani, Clinton, Obama, Edwards, and Romney. Libertarian support aside, he's got as much chance of winning the primaries as a goldfish does.

Lord knows right now the goldfish would be getting my vote.

"I do not recall that period of my administration" ain't something we haven't heard before.

The OP is just a cut-and-paste troll. With "supporters" of that quality, Ron Paul doesn't even really need an opposition. :D

I'm sticking by my theory that the Ron Paul campaign is paying people to post stuff like this on fora such as ours. The OP has 3 posts. 2 of these are thread starters all about how awesome Ron Paul is. My realpolitik sense is tingling.

I don't know, he's gaining a lot of support, and can raise $4 million in a single weekend. He may soon have more support than Rudy and Mike.

Doubtful as most of that $4 Million did not come from republicans.

I'm sticking by my theory that the Ron Paul campaign is paying people to post stuff like this on fora such as ours. The OP has 3 posts. 2 of these are thread starters all about how awesome Ron Paul is. My realpolitik sense is tingling.

Don't be silly, Ron Paul wouldn't pay people to shamelessly promote him. He's doing it himself.

Hehe, I really would love to see the Republican not nominate him.

Me to. It means that they are 100% saner than Ron Paul.

If my predictions are accurate by the time the Republican Nomination Party comes along, Ron Paul would be enjoying support for about 40-50% of the party. It'll be interesting to see what happens when they feel disenfranchised.

Your predictions will be wrong.

You use "may" as if you mean "it is possible" when in fact your belief of that would make you a degenerate Ron Paul Love Revolution Troofer whackjob.


Make NO MISTAKE

DAWKTER RON PAUL and the RON PAUL LOVE REVOLUTION stands for:

TROOF

PIRACY

GOLDEN NUGGETS

HALE BOPP

DAWKTER Ron has prescribed 500cL of Kool Aid, and you RonBot Paulistinians have had a double dose.

Its the Dennis Kucinich Pissant Spam Scum Mob all over again, a hoard of pea brained knuckle draggers who know, just k-n-o-w that the Only Man Who Can Save America will somehow break the bonds of < 3% support and become Pre-zee-dent of america.

Or, in DAWKTER Ron's case, shoo his 66,666 frothy mouthed supporters up to Constitution Heaven in the tail of Space Comet HALE BOPP.
You know, I don't like Ron Paul, but that was really just obnoxious.

I'm sticking by my theory that the Ron Paul campaign is paying people to post stuff like this on fora such as ours. The OP has 3 posts. 2 of these are thread starters all about how awesome Ron Paul is. My realpolitik sense is tingling.
My theory is that the Ron Paul campaign is being entirely supported by leftists who want to malign all libertarians by getting them associated with this lunatic.

My theory is that the Ron Paul campaign is being entirely supported by leftists who want to malign all libertarians by getting them associated with this lunatic.

That or using Ron Paul to split the vote so Hillary can get elected.

You know, I don't like Ron Paul, but that was really just obnoxious.

But very funny :D

But very funny :D

No, just obnoxious. Reduces the debate needlessly. Not that I expect you to understand, all things considered...

No, just obnoxious. Reduces the debate needlessly. Not that I expect you to understand, all things considered...

Um yea...ok whatever. I'm not going to dignify it with a response because frankly, it is not worth it. I had something but I'm going to keep it to myself.

I'm still waiting for somebody to explain why a self-styled 'Libertarian' opposes gay-marriage, euthanasia and abortion...

Lets not forget this lil beauty wherein Paul suggests that blacks are politically unaware...

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2007/05/ron_pauls_past_.html


:rolleyes: another right wing moron smearing one of the last true patriots in America.


From the first comment on that story:


USA Today just told me never to buy another one of their newspapers.

You guys need to do some actual research. I am flabbergasted by your uneducated smear piece here. Slinging feces is different from reporting.

Ron Paul is so far from a racist it's not even funny. He's spoken out publicly against racisim for all of his 10 terms as a congressman in an arguably racist state.

He has support from many many blacks, including popular economist Walter Williams.

Some have also accused him of being an anti-semite, which is an extraordinary statement considering his two MAIN heroes were jewish economists, both of whom agreed with his dislike for the Israeli STATE (not for jews).

There is nothing remotely racist about Ron Paul. Get over yourself and issue an apology for this libel.

I just might consider giving USA TODAY another chance...

also, everyone will have a pony

Sounds about like Ron Paul's promises. Apparently, when we get rid of all social services, let the states infringe upon our civil rights without inhibition, and make all of our money useless, everyone will be rich!

I'm still waiting for somebody to explain why a self-styled 'Libertarian' opposes gay-marriage, euthanasia and abortion...

and immigration.

but that's easy. for freedom™!!!

I'm still waiting for somebody to explain why a self-styled 'Libertarian' opposes gay-marriage, euthanasia and abortion...
Who needs to bother with those once you've got tax cuts for your big business buddies and you don't have to worry about people 'living' off 'your money'?

and immigration.

but that's easy. for freedom™!!!

I was thinking 'Freedom Lite: now with with up to 80% less liberties!'

No, just obnoxious. Reduces the debate needlessly. Not that I expect you to understand, all things considered...

What debate? Paulistinians aren't about debate, they're about spamming message boards, online polls, straw polls, &c &c. What is more, this forum is not actually home to debates, if you hadn't noticed.

Gotta fight fire with fire, for every moron who staggers in dragging his knuckles and mumbling about "viable candidate" "front runner" "wins the polls" "only hope" and every other demented perjury of the Ron Paul Spam Scum Mob, there needs to be a firm response pointing out the sheer weight of the crazy arrayed behind the good Dawkter.

The Ron Paul Love Revolution stands for Troof, Pirates, Golden Nuggets and the space comet Hale Bopp.

I'm still waiting for somebody to explain why a self-styled 'Libertarian' opposes gay-marriage, euthanasia and abortion...

Apparently, only the federal government is supposed to be 'Libertarian'. The state and local governments can be outright oppressive and that's perfectly acceptable.

Somehow or other, you're less oppressed if the oppression comes from the next city over instead of the next state over.


Ron Paul is so far from a racist it's not even funny. He's spoken out publicly against racisim for all of his 10 terms as a congressman in an arguably racist state.

So stating that black youths should be treated differently from white youths in court is speaking out publicly against racism?

How about discussing "black culture" as a monolithic culture designed to steal from and degrade others?

(even if he didn't personally write them, he still chose to publish them under his own name, so he's got no leg to stand on here.)

How about targeting Iranian students in a bill to deny them - and only them - financial aid?

I was thinking 'Freedom Lite: now with with up to 80% less liberties!'

Vote Ron Paul: He defends the Constitution by being the ONLY PERSON that knows what it means so he can tell us what our freedoms are!

Vote Ron Paul: The Benevolent Dictator!

Vote Ron Paul: He's a Doktor! Obviously he knows what he's doing!

Vote Ron Paul: Everything was better in pre-WWII USA!
or
Vote Ron Paul: Everything was better in pre-WWII USA as I imagine it!

Vote Ron Paul: Who needs money?

Vote Ron Paul: If I get my way, everyone will be equal! No one will have any money, rights, or hope!

Vote Ron Paul: Equality for States!

What debate? Paulistinians aren't about debate, they're about spamming message boards, online polls, straw polls, &c &c. What is more, this forum is not actually home to debates, if you hadn't noticed.

Gotta fight fire with fire, for every moron who staggers in dragging his knuckles and mumbling about "viable candidate" "front runner" "wins the polls" "only hope" and every other demented perjury of the Ron Paul Spam Scum Mob, there needs to be a firm response pointing out the sheer weight of the crazy arrayed behind the good Dawkter.

The Ron Paul Love Revolution stands for Troof, Pirates, Golden Nuggets and the space comet Hale Bopp.
So, what point do you think this makes other than "I don't like him, but I sure do like puns and grade-school name calling!" There are plenty of people here making valid points that counter the claims of what you call "Paulistinians" that all you're doing is the equivalent of interrupting while the grown folks are trying to talk. And again, I don't like Paul, I just don't like this kind of post, either. Because honestly, now if I debate against Paul anything I say is dragged down by association with the clownery of posts like this.

It's not even to say that there is no place for humor, if what they say is funny, fun can be had. But what's above? Just childish. You can, and should, do better.

So, what point do you think this makes other than "I don't like him, but I sure do like puns and grade-school name calling!" There are plenty of people here making valid points that counter the claims of what you call "Paulistinians" that all you're doing is the equivalent of interrupting while the grown folks are trying to talk. And again, I don't like Paul, I just don't like this kind of post, either. Because honestly, now if I debate against Paul anything I say is dragged down by association with the clownery of posts like this.

It's not even to say that there is no place for humor, if what they say is funny, fun can be had. But what's above? Just childish. You can, and should, do better.

Ronbot pissants don't deserve to 'talk to the grown ups' (ha! ha!) to begin with. These jackasses are walking comedy - lighten up, Francis.

I was thinking 'Freedom Lite: now with with up to 80% less liberties!'

lol

That great piece of paper called the constitution that's guaranteed to leave you feeling shafted.

Apparently, only the federal government is supposed to be 'Libertarian'. The state and local governments can be outright oppressive and that's perfectly acceptable.

Somehow or other, you're less oppressed if the oppression comes from the next city over instead of the next state over.

Don't you seez!!!11!!one!! Each state can chuz what way they want to oppress their citizens. The left coast can have their NKVD and the Bible Belt can have the Inquisition. Choose your branding iron! :p

No one has said in my previous thread anything remotely fact about Ron Paul. It seems as if all the replies were from people who never gave him a chance, never looked at his voting record and people who don't even know where he stands on issues like abortion and euthanasia and the likes.

First off Ron Paul has his own views on the above. He doesn't stand at a 'pro abortion stance.' He wants the STATES to decide. This brings the American people into the debate more effectively by enfranchising the people of this great country.

Paul wants to get rid of the IRS and Department of education, not because he hates taxes or because he doesn't like educated people, but because these are FAILED systems that are NOT working. If you look at ANY assessment of how the United States is doing with regards to education we are FAR BEHIND MOST DEVELOPED COUNTRIES. By privatizing the system there will be more competition and competition breeds innovation. And innovation breeds better schools.

Ron Paul is against the war in Iraq not because he's Anti-War. He's against the war because we went into Iraq under FALSE PRETENSES AND LIES. He encouraged congress to continue to fight terrorism by tracking down OSAMA BIN LADEN.

The war in Iraq is putting this country in a giant deficit economically. But yet we continue to keep printing money, causing inflation. Eventually these practices are going to catch up to us. The Dollar is already weaker than the Euro. How much further are we willing to go before we go bankrupt?
Ron Paul says get out of Iraq, NO NATION BUILDING, send the troops home so we can save billions.

No one has said in my previous thread anything remotely fact about Ron Paul. It seems as if all the replies were from people who never gave him a chance, never looked at his voting record and people who don't even know where he stands on issues like abortion and euthanasia and the likes.
I'm not going to touch the subject of your post, since I don't have the requisite knowledge to comment, but what -- honestly -- makes you think that this thread will follow a different path to the last one? (y'know, the one that's still on the front page)

How exactly is the IRS a failed system?

Because if we abolish the income tax, that means more money in the pockets of us. More money in the pocket of us = we spend more. We spend more = economic boom.

Because if we abolish the income tax, that means more money in the pockets of us. More money in the pocket of us = we spend more. We spend more = economic boom.

If we abolish the income tax then there is no money to operate the federal government.

The role of the IRS is to collect taxes, they do so, how is it a failed system?

First off Ron Paul has his own views on the above. He doesn't stand at a 'pro abortion stance.' He wants the STATES to decide. This brings the American people into the debate more effectively by enfranchising the people of this great country.


This is a bit of a misnomer. Most conservatives and anti-abortion people will say that it is a state's right issue because it is in their favor. Right now, we are essentially in a free choice area, where it is up to the people involved to make the choice. By moving it to a state's right issue, we allow each state to make laws based for the people. This can ONLY lead to restricting abortions in many states.

snip
More proof of why, if I were an American, I wouldn't vote for this nutter.

How exactly is the IRS a failed system?

Not a single cent goes to any of the services that are expected. 100% of your taxes goes to paying the interest only on money borrowed. All of that is still not enough to cover the expenses that continue to grow by our out of control spend happy gov't. Everyday the US gov't borrows more money at interest to fund itself, increases the credit limit and says all is well.

Please watch

America: Freedom to Facism

Yay Ron PAul!! He's liek the onley hoop 4 AmerIKA!!!!!!!

He'll stop the federal drug war!! Pull the troops out of Iraq!! End the income tax!! And lots of other goodies!!

He won't even consider invading Iran, or anything else unconstitutional!!

Think about it duuuds!! WEEEEED!!!!

If we abolish the income tax then there is no money to operate the federal government.

The role of the IRS is to collect taxes, they do so, how is it a failed system?

Ah, good first point. That is why we are going to limit the federal government and give more power to each individual state. Therefore it won't be an issue. By failed system I mean flawed in the sense of what the government should be. If you want the government to run your lives, spend billions of dollars on fighting drugs and building empires around the world, then we need giant systems like the I.R.S.

More proof of why, if I were an American, I wouldn't vote for this nutter.

Lol..What proof and can you give a logical argument to support what you are saying? The one liners are getting old.

You've convinced me, NoBoundary; I definitely won't vote for anyone that YOU support. :)

First off Ron Paul has his own views on the above. He doesn't stand at a 'pro abortion stance.' He wants the STATES to decide.

Except, of course, when he voted for the Federal Partial Birth Abortion Act. Being an anti-federalist I'd had hope he wouldn't be a raging dickbag until I found out about that. I also happen to believe that one of the Federal government's few legitimate activities is ensuring a baseline level of human rights, and Paul doesn't see it that way. His "Sanctity of Life Act" and "We The People Act" also killed him for me. I'm also not a fan of his immigration policies.

Ah, the fun of being a leftist anti-federalist.

edit: Oh, and there are more things I dislike about him that I find out every day, but once I heard those I kinda stopped caring about him.

Lol..What proof and can you give a logical argument to support what you are saying? The one liners are getting old.
Want a catalogue? I'll pick through your OP after dinner if you like.

No one has said in my previous thread anything remotely fact about Ron Paul. It seems as if all the replies were from people who never gave him a chance, never looked at his voting record and people who don't even know where he stands on issues like abortion and euthanasia and the likes.

It would appear that you are the one who is guilty of this.

Personally, I first looked into Paul thinking he would likely be a good candidate, as a close friend was a proponent. In doing so, I have found nothing but pretty rhetoric and a voting record that is absolutely abysmal.

First off Ron Paul has his own views on the above. He doesn't stand at a 'pro abortion stance.' He wants the STATES to decide. This brings the American people into the debate more effectively by enfranchising the people of this great country.

(a) No one said he was pro-abortion. In fact, he thinks women shouldn't be able to obtain abortions and, when they medically need them, should not be able to seek out the best possible medical care.

(b) See his votes in favor of federal measures restricting abortion (even one where he point-blank stated that he was breaking his oath of office by failing to uphold the Constitution).

(c) He has point-blank stated that he thinks STATES should decide to ban abortion.

(d) Allowing states to infringe upon civil rights is no better than allowing the federal government to do so.

Paul wants to get rid of the IRS and Department of education, not because he hates taxes or because he doesn't like educated people, but because these are FAILED systems that are NOT working. If you look at ANY assessment of how the United States is doing with regards to education we are FAR BEHIND MOST DEVELOPED COUNTRIES. By privatizing the system there will be more competition and competition breeds innovation. And innovation breeds better schools.

And poor children don't get an education.....

We've had the private system. Very few people were educated. Why should we believe that it will work now? Do you have any idea what tuition at even a tier 4 private school is like?

Ron Paul is against the war in Iraq not because he's Anti-War. He's against the war because we went into Iraq under FALSE PRETENSES AND LIES. He encouraged congress to continue to fight terrorism by tracking down OSAMA BIN LADEN.

How are we going to track down Osama when all of our troops are pulled out of all countries not our own and sent out only with a direct attack on our soil and we pull out of any and all international organizations that might help track him down? Are you under the impression that he is currently on US soil?

The war in Iraq is putting this country in a giant deficit economically. But yet we continue to keep printing money, causing inflation. Eventually these practices are going to catch up to us. The Dollar is already weaker than the Euro. How much further are we willing to go before we go bankrupt?
Ron Paul says get out of Iraq, NO NATION BUILDING, send the troops home so we can save billions.

No nation building, but we should annex part of Panama, eh?
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d106:h.con.res.231:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d094:h.res1410:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d096:h.r.2522:

Yes, there are financial problems, but Paul's proposals to simply do away with US currency in one fell swoop (making all of our money immediately useless) certainly isn't going to help.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:h.r.2779:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d096:h.r.3931:

I'd love for you to.

Let's keep the discussion to the two threads we already have on Ron Paul, ok?

Merged.

NationStates Forum Moderator
HotRodia

Because if we abolish the income tax, that means more money in the pockets of us. More money in the pocket of us = we spend more. We spend more = economic boom.

Yeah, because employers are going to pay you all that money that they are currently sending to the government.

You keep on believing that.


This is a bit of a misnomer. Most conservatives and anti-abortion people will say that it is a state's right issue because it is in their favor. Right now, we are essentially in a free choice area, where it is up to the people involved to make the choice. By moving it to a state's right issue, we allow each state to make laws based for the people. This can ONLY lead to restricting abortions in many states.

Exactly, the entire point of the "state's rights" argument is to take rights away from the individual and hand them over to the government instead.


Not a single cent goes to any of the services that are expected. 100% of your taxes goes to paying the interest only on money borrowed. All of that is still not enough to cover the expenses that continue to grow by our out of control spend happy gov't. Everyday the US gov't borrows more money at interest to fund itself, increases the credit limit and says all is well.

....that isn't a product of the IRS. That is a product of lawmakers who borrow and spend, rather than putting together a balanced budget.

The problem isn't that we have taxes or that the IRS exists. It is the irresponsible practices of our lawmakers when they get that money.

So, once again, how is the IRS a failed system?


Ah, good first point. That is why we are going to limit the federal government and give more power to each individual state. Therefore it won't be an issue.

This won't remove the need of the federal government to have money with which to run itself. It will simply mean that it needs less of it.

By failed system I mean flawed in the sense of what the government should be. If you want the government to run your lives, spend billions of dollars on fighting drugs and building empires around the world, then we need giant systems like the I.R.S.

The IRS just collects the taxes. It doesn't determine how they are spent (or what borrowing Congress decides on).

Because if we abolish the income tax, that means more money in the pockets of us. More money in the pocket of us = we spend more. We spend more = economic boom.

So he is all for eliminating theincome tax, in favor of a consumption tax?

I once agreed with this idea, but have since realized that a consumption places more burden on the poor forcing them to pay more of their money in taxes for the things that they need.

Whereas the rich end of playing a smaller portion of their income in taxes, because there is only so much stuff that they need to buy, the rest of their wealth goes into stocks and such which would have no tax.

BTW the IRS is not the problem with our tax system. The tax code, set forth by Congress over the last 50 or so years, is the problem.

Let's keep the discussion to the two threads we already have on Ron Paul, ok?

Merged.

NationStates Forum Moderator
HotRodia

Thank you. Two too many is better than three too many. :)

You forgot to say "Ron Paul isn't racist against black people. He just misunderstands their situation."

:rolleyes:

I have often found that those who favor Ron Paul because of his economic policies have almost no real grasp on economics.

Because if we abolish the income tax, that means more money in the pockets of us. More money in the pocket of us = we spend more. We spend more = economic boom.

wow that's...stupid.

Because if we abolish the income tax, that means more money in the pockets of us. More money in the pocket of us = we spend more. We spend more = economic boom.

Your logic is flawed. the government doesn't just burn your tax money, it spends it in the private economy. Either way, whether you spend it or the government spends it, money is still spent. In most cases, Keynesian state capitalism in nothing else stabilizes the economy by promoting a slightly more egalitarian distribution of wealth.

Because if we abolish the income tax, that means more money in the pockets of us. More money in the pocket of us = we spend more. We spend more = economic boom.

And just how is the federal government going to get money? no money in the government means no government jobs which means unemployment numbers go sky high.

Not a single cent goes to any of the services that are expected.

care to back that up with evidence?

100% of your taxes goes to paying the interest only on money borrowed. All of that is still not enough to cover the expenses that continue to grow by our out of control spend happy gov't. Everyday the US gov't borrows more money at interest to fund itself, increases the credit limit and says all is well.

And people wonder why Hillary Clinton is digging a deep hole at the moment.

Please watch

America: Freedom to Facism

Oh brother. :headbang:

No nation building, but we should annex part of Panama, eh?
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d106:h.con.res.231:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d094:h.res1410:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d096:h.r.2522:

Yes, there are financial problems, but Paul's proposals to simply do away with US currency in one fell swoop (making all of our money immediately useless) certainly isn't going to help.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:h.r.2779:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d096:h.r.3931:

This made my stomach turn. What a complete dipshit!

Don't you seez!!!11!!one!! Each state can chuz what way they want to oppress their citizens. The left coast can have their NKVD and the Bible Belt can have the Inquisition. Choose your branding iron! :p
LOL

care to back that up with evidence?



:


With two-thirds of everyone's personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by Federal Government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government.

GRACE COMMISSION REPORT
WAR ON WASTE
President's Private Sector Survey on Cost Control
__________________________________________________
MACMILLAN PUBLISHING COMPANY

New York

Macmillan Publishing Company

866 Third Avenue, New York, N.Y. 10022

ISBN 0-02-074660-I

Macmillan books are available at special discounts for bulk purchases for sales promotions, premiums. fund-raising, or educational use. Special editions or book excerpts can also be created to specification. For details, contact:
Special Sales Director
Macmillan Publishing Company
866 Third Avenue
New York, New York 10022

10 9 X 7 6 5 4 3 2 1

Printed in the United States of America

January 12, 1984

I'd love for you to.
Your wish is my command...

No one has said in my previous thread anything remotely fact about Ron Paul. It seems as if all the replies were from people who never gave him a chance, never looked at his voting record and people who don't even know where he stands on issues like abortion and euthanasia and the likes.
I did, and so did everybody else who looked at the link on this, or the other, Ron Paul thread.

First off Ron Paul has his own views on the above. He doesn't stand at a 'pro abortion stance.' He wants the STATES to decide. This brings the American people into the debate more effectively by enfranchising the people of this great country.
And how does something decided at the state level rather than the federal level make people more 'enfranchised'? I spy waffle... In any case, why should a woman in one state have fewer rights - granted by the US Constitution - than a woman in another? State's rights with regards to abortion is simply a smokescreen for pro-lifers to try and restrict abortion now they can't get a ban across the board.

And if Paul does believe in 'state's rights' - or a libertarian, for that matter, why did he vote in favour of the partial birth abortion ban?

Paul wants to get rid of the IRS and Department of education, not because he hates taxes or because he doesn't like educated people, but because these are FAILED systems that are NOT working.
IRS is supposed to collect taxes.
IRS collects taxes.
IRS works at least.

If you look at ANY assessment of how the United States is doing with regards to education we are FAR BEHIND MOST DEVELOPED COUNTRIES. By privatizing the system there will be more competition and competition breeds innovation. And innovation breeds better schools.
Which is why all the successful, developed, European school systems are privatised, correct?

Ron Paul is against the war in Iraq not because he's Anti-War. He's against the war because we went into Iraq under FALSE PRETENSES AND LIES. He encouraged congress to continue to fight terrorism by tracking down OSAMA BIN LADEN.
In other words, he'd still be a hawk when he wants to be. I'd rather have someone who is opposed to war as much as possible, thank you very much.

The war in Iraq is putting this country in a giant deficit economically. But yet we continue to keep printing money, causing inflation. Eventually these practices are going to catch up to us. The Dollar is already weaker than the Euro. How much further are we willing to go before we go bankrupt?
And we don't print Euros this side of the Atlantic? We seem to be doing just fine without the gold standard, thank you very much.

Ron Paul says get out of Iraq, NO NATION BUILDING, send the troops home so we can save billions.
Well, you don't have to vote a lunatic into office to do that.

*snip*

The year 1984 is the best you got?

He has support from many many blacks

you know, even if he had the support of every single person of color that votes in republican primaries (which he doesn't), that still isn't "many many", unless you are using many many to mean like 8.

Oh brother. :headbang:

Seconded. That is one of the stupidest, most ignorant films to ever come out.

And we don't print Euros this side of the Atlantic? We seem to be doing just fine without the gold standard, thank you very much.

No, it will be called the Amero. The Denver mint is striking amero coins currently. One has to ask themselves why? Why would we produce a new currency if we are doing just fine. Do you think that they are going to ask us?

Burgeoning popularity and a crack in the armor? Don't kid yourself. In the polls, he trails consistently behind Guiliani, Clinton, Obama, Edwards, and Romney. Libertarian support aside, he's got as much chance of winning the primaries as a goldfish does.

Hmmm...

*convinces a goldfish to run*

The year 1984 is the best you got?

You have brought nothing to this discussion. I am going to have to agree that you should apologize for every single post you have ever made.

No, it will be called the Amero. The Denver mint is striking amero coins currently. One has to ask themselves why? Why would we produce a new currency if we are doing just fine. Do you think that they are going to ask us?

Source?

You have brought nothing to this discussion. I am going to have to agree that you should apologize for every single post you have ever made.

*does his best not to laugh*

*wonders if Drewlio or NoBoundary intend to address my points*

No, it will be called the Amero. The Denver mint is striking amero coins currently. One has to ask themselves why? Why would we produce a new currency if we are doing just fine. Do you think that they are going to ask us?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/amero.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/amero.asp

Of course Snopes is going to say it's false. It's a conspiracy!

I have often found that those who favor Ron Paul because of his economic policies have almost no real grasp on economics.

Most people don't understand economic period. They still think the US is doing swell with its economy, when, from what most sources I have read have said, it is closer to a long term recession, or ever depression.

http://www.halturnershow.com/AmeroCoinArrives.html

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=amero+coins&meta=

Now all we have to do is figure out which one is true? :D

If Hal Turner says it, it MUST be TRUTH!!! OMG NO AMEROOS!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/amero.asp

http://www.halturnershow.com/AmeroCoinArrives.html

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=amero+coins&meta=

Now all we have to do is figure out which one is true? :D

Of course Snopes is going to say it's false. It's a conspiracy!

I will retract my statement ..(officialy retracting beep..) an reserve the right to bring it up another time.. (but when you get your amero look for the "d" )

http://www.halturnershow.com/AmeroCoinArrives.html

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=amero+coins&meta=

Now all we have to do is figure out which one is true? :D

Hal Turner...ewwww.

*vomits profusely*

*wonders if Drewlio or NoBoundary intend to address my points*

My dear Dempublicents1,

Your obivious and well armed oppostition to supporting Ron Paul leaves very little continuing discusion on the matter. I can only hope that you are a registered voter and vote for your candidate. Only time will tell. I rather move on to a constructive converstation with you. I have stated I believe in my candiate and your insight has not swayed me to vote for anyone else.

I would be interested if your arsenal is complete against any other presidential candiate?

Do you campaign for your candiate and organize support for him or her?

Respectively,

Drewlio

No, it will be called the Amero. The Denver mint is striking amero coins currently. One has to ask themselves why? Why would we produce a new currency if we are doing just fine. Do you think that they are going to ask us?
Come back to me when the Amero replaces the US dollar from circulation.

If Hal Turner says it, it MUST be TRUTH!!! OMG NO AMEROOS!
Let's run with this for awhile? Ever hear of the Bilderberg Group?

Bilderberg 2007: Agenda and Participant List (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/250507bilderberg.htm)

$200 Dollar a Barrel Oil Is Bilderberg Plan To Destroy Middle Class (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2007/170907_middle_class.htm)

Conspiracy theories?????

Hal Turner...ewwww.

*vomits profusely*
Yeah, he doesn't seem to be a very nice kinda guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Turner

I would be interested if your arsenal is complete against any other presidential candiate?

Unfortunately not. I don't have that kind of time. A good friend has constantly been shoving Ron Paul in my face, prompting me to look up more and more about him (finding myself more and more disturbed each time).

I know quite a bit about the candidate I currently support and I have looked into the positions of all of the candidates, but I am much more familiar with Obama and Paul than any other candidates.

Do you campaign for your candiate and organize support for him or her?

Not directly for his campaign, no. I'll loudly speak my mind to anyone who will listen, but that's not really organized campaigning. =)

Most people don't understand economic period. They still think the US is doing swell with its economy, when, from what most sources I have read have said, it is closer to a long term recession, or ever depression.

Thank you.

Yeah, we're currently printing money out of thin air.

Here's the Chairman of the federal reserve himself. Oh, and look how nervous he is. The commentator even mentions it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yAwvlDJgJbM

$200 Dollar a Barrel Oil Is Bilderberg Plan To Destroy Middle Class (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2007/170907_middle_class.htm)

More like save the middle class.

If you want to see the savior of the middle class, look towards the high-paying manufacturing, research and development, and operational jobs created by the alternative energy industry. All of it domestic, all of it high-paying, and all of it sustainable. If anyone really thinks cheap oil would save the middle class, they're completely out of their minds...in fact, all that would do is help perpetuate the status quo that they find so undesirable.

More like save the middle class.

If you want to see the savior of the middle class, look towards the high-paying manufacturing, research and development, and operational jobs created by the alternative energy industry. All of it domestic, all of it high-paying, and all of it sustainable. If anyone really thinks cheap oil would save the middle class, they're completely out of their minds...in fact, all that would do is help perpetuate the status quo that they find so undesirable.

You are not thinking about all the costs involved - It will cost more to go to work,feed your family,go on vaction, goods and services go up because they incur the additional costs and pass it on to you. That high paying job will not be any benefit, in addition the costs of re-educating the work force. The price on oil in being hyper inflated and the economy is being distorted. Between the stratigic oil reserve and the oil sands of Canada there is plenty of oil. But the large oil families aren't included in this and they drive the fear and manipulate the oil production thus driving up the costs for profit sake.

I agree that alternative energy is needed but even that is being distorted. It takes more energy to create hydrogen then hydrogen produces yet it is being touted at the way to go. By putting solar arrays on a small percentage of our deserts we can produce enough energy for our country. Most of the technology for the future has been gobbled up by big oil/auto thru buying the patents. A great film is "who kill the electric car?" it speaks of the Ford EV and its sucess but it would not continue to make big money thru gas sales/auto parts/service. The technology patents were bought up and unused this trend can been seen thru a lot of sectors. Plus it is unfair that tax dollars, grants, and tax credits are given to promote technology that is sold back to us as consumers, we end up paying a couple of times over, thus driving up the costs again and spending more of that "high income". I'm not even going to start on those jobs you say will be all domestic, parts can be made by cheap/child/inmate labor in other parts of the world, research and delvelopment is very small, and operational jobs are now limited due to computers and video.

*snip*

Um Vetalia is sort of an economic master on these forums.

Um Vetalia is sort of an economic master on these forums.
Um and you claim to be a master of history :p....what's your point??

Um and you claim to be a master of history :p....what's your point??

Hey, now that's uncalled for. :p

Yeah, he doesn't seem to be a very nice kinda guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Turner

He's a rotten piece of shit. I'm embarrassed to share the same planet as him.

Yeah, he doesn't seem to be a very nice kinda guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Turner

Harold "Hal" Turner is subhuman fail.
Ah, Wikipedia...they just don't write encyclopedias like that anymore.

Ah, Wikipedia...they just don't write encyclopedias like that anymore.

Which is why we have Uncyclopedia. ;)

This is the saddest bunch of bs I have read in a long time. All that you are doing is misquoting Dr. Paul and attacking his base. I guess I thought the Nation States crew would be more issue-oriented. How wrong was I?

How many of you have bothered to watch the GOP debates or one of his speeches?

How about look into his voting record? This man is neither a racist nor a chauvinist.

He also isn`t controled by lobbyists.

People with real integrety are always accused of being lunatics.

No one has said in my previous thread anything remotely fact about Ron Paul. It seems as if all the replies were from people who never gave him a chance, never looked at his voting record and people who don't even know where he stands on issues like abortion and euthanasia and the likes.

Yeah, I've stayed out of Ron Paul debates(I don't much on his position), but I feel like playing. SEANGOLI, COME ON DOWN!



First off Ron Paul has his own views on the above. He doesn't stand at a 'pro abortion stance.' He wants the STATES to decide. This brings the American people into the debate more effectively by enfranchising the people of this great country.


And the Closest amount to the actual retail price is:

No, they shouldn't. We have this thing, called the "constitution". This is the Ultimate Law of the Land. No State can, nor should, be able to deny the rights and liberties both clearly stated and implied. Now "abortions" aren't specifically mentioned in the Constitution, but "right to privacy" is very much so implied within. The reason why implied rights and liberties can be granted is due to the 9th Amendment, which reads:

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

Every state has agreed to follow the Constitution. Right to Privacy is a protected right. Hence, abortion is a protected right. Don't like it? Tough cookies. Your State decided to bite itself in the ass when it joined the union, if you will.


Paul wants to get rid of the IRS and Department of education, not because he hates taxes or because he doesn't like educated people, but because these are FAILED systems that are NOT working. If you look at ANY assessment of how the United States is doing with regards to education we are FAR BEHIND MOST DEVELOPED COUNTRIES. By privatizing the system there will be more competition and competition breeds innovation. And innovation breeds better schools.

And the poor do what? They can barely afford to eat and live as it is. And they constitute a very large sector of the population.

So, under such a system, the poor stay very poor, and the rich very rich(As the very rich can afford the best schools). Huh. I should have figured this, really.

The reason our system is not failing is not because it is federalized, but instead because of largely methodology. Revamp the system, don't destroy it for another, purely idiotic system.


Ron Paul is against the war in Iraq not because he's Anti-War. He's against the war because we went into Iraq under FALSE PRETENSES AND LIES. He encouraged congress to continue to fight terrorism by tracking down OSAMA BIN LADEN.
The war in Iraq is putting this country in a giant deficit economically. But yet we continue to keep printing money, causing inflation. Eventually these practices are going to catch up to us. The Dollar is already weaker than the Euro. How much further are we willing to go before we go bankrupt?
Ron Paul says get out of Iraq, NO NATION BUILDING, send the troops home so we can save billions.


This is common sense. Anyone with half a brain would come to this conclusion. As such, I don't really see what seperates Ron Paul from Joe Shmoe down the street.

As such, I don't really see what seperates Ron Paul from Joe Shmoe down the street.

Then you're clearly missing the Word of the Ron Paul LOVE Revolution!

DAWKTER RON stands for:

TROOF

JUSTICE

PIRACY

GOLDEN NUGGETS

HALE BOPP.

The Only Man Who Can Save America, AKA The Man Who Wins All Polls has special insight into CONSTITUTION and can see that what america needs is a plan.

First step, learn the TROOF and make it know, so that we can exit all foreign entanglements and get rid of the military.

JUSTICE by letting every person fend for himself, as CONSTITUTION calls for.

PIRACY by replacing our professional military with ordinary americans issued Piratical Letters of Marque, and sending these swashbuckling patriots to far away lands to deal death to terrorists, as prescribed in CONSTITUTION.

With the abolition of banks and our economy, and the return to the gold standard, there will be a great many able bodied and unemployed americans who can be put to work in the gold mines, pulling forth constantly a supply of GOLDEN NUGGETS to fund the maintenance of the American Way.

At the end of this odyssey of national suicide, the DAWKTER's 66,666 frothy mouthed fanatics will join him in CONSTITUTION paradise behind the tail of the space comet HALE BOPP.

Then you're clearly missing the Word of the Ron Paul LOVE Revolution!

DAWKTER RON stands for:

TROOF

JUSTICE

PIRACY

GOLDEN NUGGETS

HALE BOPP.

The Only Man Who Can Save America, AKA The Man Who Wins All Polls has special insight into CONSTITUTION and can see that what america needs is a plan.

First step, learn the TROOF and make it know, so that we can exit all foreign entanglements and get rid of the military.

JUSTICE by letting every person fend for himself, as CONSTITUTION calls for.

PIRACY by replacing our professional military with ordinary americans issued Piratical Letters of Marque, and sending these swashbuckling patriots to far away lands to deal death to terrorists, as prescribed in CONSTITUTION.

With the abolition of banks and our economy, and the return to the gold standard, there will be a great many able bodied and unemployed americans who can be put to work in the gold mines, pulling forth constantly a supply of GOLDEN NUGGETS to fund the maintenance of the American Way.

At the end of this odyssey of national suicide, the DAWKTER's 66,666 frothy mouthed fanatics will join him in CONSTITUTION paradise behind the tail of the space comet HALE BOPP.
Will the DAWKTER be supplying the Kool Aid?

How about look into his voting record? This man is neither a racist nor a chauvinist.

He voted for the Partial Birth Abortion Ban, something that has only the effect of endangering women. Why is it that every single person who tells us to look at his voting record hasn't done so themselves?

He voted for the Partial Birth Abortion Ban, something that has only the effect of endangering women. Why is it that every single person who tells us to look at his voting record hasn't done so themselves?I'm not sure, but I bet it's also the explanation for why the people saying "But he's a politician, of course he's a liar" believes what he says.

If it's any consolation though, I'm really fucking curious to hear the explanation too.

He voted for the Partial Birth Abortion Ban, something that has only the effect of endangering women. Why is it that every single person who tells us to look at his voting record hasn't done so themselves?

Maybe because they're hoping you won't look at it, either? :p

The guy is a loony. Heck if his sort win I predict a future right out of Jennifer Government.


Ron Paul and his supporters are a joke by Anonymous.
Nope, even Anonymous hates him.

He voted for the Partial Birth Abortion Ban, something that has only the effect of endangering women. Why is it that every single person who tells us to look at his voting record hasn't done so themselves?

When people here the words "tax cut", they start to drool and ignore everything else.

Kinda like Pavlov's Dog.

Will the DAWKTER be supplying the Kool Aid?

DAWKTER Ron specializes in RX Kool Aid, of which he prescribes 500 cL, although all the Paulistinians have clearly had a double dose.

DAWKTER Ron has appeared on the TROOF and JUSTICE radio program of one of the Princes of the Church of Deranged, Venomous Insanity - Alex Jones, a man fond of using terms like "Bankster" to refer to the people who TROOFfully control international finance and terrorism...

wow that's...stupid.



Why is it stupid you brain dead rightwinger.

wow that's...stupid.

DAWKTER Ron specializes in RX Kool Aid, of which he prescribes 500 cL, although all the Paulistinians have clearly had a double dose.

DAWKTER Ron has appeared on the TROOF and JUSTICE radio program of one of the Princes of the Church of Deranged, Venomous Insanity - Alex Jones, a man fond of using terms like "Bankster" to refer to the people who TROOFfully control international finance and terrorism...

Go play in traffic.

Fixed.

Whoa whoa whoa there buddy. Calm down. Put down the knife. Don't pull that shit.

On the Ron Paul note, maybe his economic ideas show some merit, but his foregin policy is pretty much shit, his reorganization of the government (for the most part) is pretty much shit, and his worldview is pretty much...well...shit.

IMHO

Go play in traffic.

Aww, somebody needs a widdle tissue.

This is the saddest bunch of bs I have read in a long time. All that you are doing is misquoting Dr. Paul and attacking his base.

What misquotes?

I guess I thought the Nation States crew would be more issue-oriented. How wrong was I?

You mean issues like keeping Ron Paul and others from infringing upon our civil rights?

How many of you have bothered to watch the GOP debates or one of his speeches?

I've seen more of him than I'd ever want to. Ron Paul supporters aren't exactly quiet.

Of course, his speeches are nothing but rhetoric. His actions don't back them up.

How about look into his voting record? This man is neither a racist nor a chauvinist.

Yup. I have to wonder, though, if you have. His voting record and the pretty words he touts in his speeches are quite often pretty clearly opposed to each other.

He also isn`t controled by lobbyists.

Maybe not. Well, not all lobbyists anyways. There do seem to be a few industries he wants to throw bones to.

People with real integrety are always accused of being lunatics.

What integrity? We're talking about a "defender of the Constitution" who is willing to vote for laws that he will even tell you are unconstitutional so long as they fit his personal ideology. We're talking about a "defender of the Constitution" who very obviously believes that the 9th and 14th Amendments are irrelevant to law in this country. We're talking about someone who says he will end the war in Iraq, but whose only attempt to do so essentially said, 'Yeah, in 6 months we might maybe possibly start thinking about ending the war." We're talking about someone who will stand up to the military industrial complex by making sure that we never dismantle nuclear weapons and that we pull out of anti-proliferation treaties and the like. We're talking about someone who claims that even economic sanctions against another country are evil, but who will gladly target that nation's students within our own country for disadvantages. We're talking about someone who claims to be a defender of liberty, but who believes that your state government can infringe on any and all of your civil liberties unchecked. We're talking about a man who has, more than once, tried to make all of our money useless in one fell swoop without first replacing it with anything, but claims to want to make us all rich.

Shall I go on?

Where in any of this is there "integrity"?


Why is it stupid you brain dead rightwinger.

Neo Art? Right wing? Are you kidding me?

Why is it stupid you brain dead rightwinger.
Lawlz.

Neo right-wing? You so crazy.

Ron Paul and his supporters are a joke by Anonymous.
Nope, even Anonymous hates him.
*Catlike hissing. Eyes narrowing.*

It is a curse most foul to invoke the support of those with no name!

*Disappearing in a puff of smoke*

Lawlz.

Neo right-wing? You so crazy.

He's banned for a couple of days.

Hey, now that's uncalled for. :p
Ah sorry if you take offense squire but although you have some relevant posts here at NSG, I don't see you as put on pedestal material like my dear friend Corny was attempting to do. :eek:

I was actually trying to get Corny to truly commit to making, um you know, a point!!!!

I was actually trying to get Corny to truly commit to making, um you know, a point!!!!

1857 why start now? - ** listens to the wind for an apology**

He also isn`t controled by lobbyists.

People with real integrety are always accused of being lunatics.

Let me put it this way: despite once supporting revolutionary socialism, within a decade of coming to power in Europe, the Social Democrats became just as corrupt and capitalist as any of the right-wing parties.

No one, repeat, no one is immune to the corruptive influence of parliament and power. Dawkter Ron Paul will be no different if he were president.

Let me put it this way: despite once supporting revolutionary socialism, within a decade of coming to power in Europe, the Social Democrats became just as corrupt and capitalist as any of the right-wing parties.

Which country in particular?

Which country in particular?

Anywhere where the Social Democrats got into power :rolleyes:

Anywhere where the Social Democrats got into power :rolleyes:It's funny, because it's wrong :p

It's funny, because it's wrong :p

All political parties are corrupt :D

All political parties are corrupt :DYeah, but pro-business parties tend to have closer ties with business and usually end up, on average, more corrupt than their left-wing counterparts, hence the statement "just as corrupt as right-wing parties" is inherently false :D