NationStates Jolt Archive

There is very little I can't do in a car, and very few conditions I can't handle without thinking about it. I've never lost control of my car even in teenage years when I was, lets call it 'spirited.'

However, I have advantages beyond growing up in race cars. I live in a very temperate climate where it does not snow. So I never had to deal with this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk).

To me and my spoiled "my roads don't freeze" eyes, that looks damn hopeless.

But I've seen people respond to those videos with "Har har, dumb people don't know how to drive." And honestly, snow cities can't just shut down during the snow, do they? There has to be a technique that doesn't involve slowly sliding down the road like a 1 ton hockey puck.

So, snow bound drivers, on the off chance that I wander out of my weather paradise and into your snowy town, lay it on me-aside from chains, what's going to keep me from the slow slide into your side panels?

A lightweight car with properly suitable tyres?

Slower speeds, for one. Proper snow tires. Applying the brake slowly and sparingly. Knowing how to avoid a skid by not turning your wheel precipitously. Knowing how to get out of a skid by steering out of it. NEVER slamming on the brake. Not following too closely.

Think of it as driving on wet leaves or in hydroplaning conditions and you pretty much have the gist of it.

A lightweight car
Check!

with properly suitable tyres?
Doom!

Though in a rain race heavier cars can push through the water and aren't as prone to hydroplaning as light weight cars, as shown at Turn 3 of Road Atlanta (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2365087456334518154&q=2007+road+atlanta+speed+gt&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0) (although with enough rain, even the tank like Cadillacs were on skates). This doesn't apply to snow?

Slower speeds, for one.
This is a natch, but the cars in that video are poking along, barely moving. Seems like 5 mph at times.
Proper snow tires. Applying the brake slowly and sparingly. Knowing how to avoid a skid by not turning your wheel precipitously.
This makes sense, just like most other low grip condition, don't shift the weight dramatically to throw the car one way or another.
Knowing how to get out of a skid by steering out of it. NEVER slamming on the brake.
It doesn't seem like they have any grip at all, which is the only way counter-steering can have any effect.
Not following too closely.
One would hope! But most of the cars in that video are all by their lonesome until they play pinball down the street.

Think of it as driving on wet leaves or in hydroplaning conditions and you pretty much have the gist of it.
In both of those conditions, though, I have to be going pretty fast and I have at least some grip (well, not when hydroplaning...) it's the low speed sliding with seeming no input from the tires that weirds me out. I might be mistaking the SUV for competence-it would seem to me it should have some ability to handle adverse conditions to at least pretend to be a truck...but I guess it can have 'summer' tires on it and not be as sorted as it pretends to be.

I tend to put 'all season' tires on my car, but I have a feeling it's all of my seasons, and we only have two and half...

Check!
Hurrah.
Doom!
Super grippy tyres ftw in icy conditions.
Though in a rain race heavier cars can push through the water and aren't as prone to hydroplaning as light weight cars, as shown at Turn 3 of Road Atlanta (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2365087456334518154&q=2007+road+atlanta+speed+gt&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0) (although with enough rain, even the tank like Cadillacs were on skates). This doesn't apply to snow?
The heavier your car is, the faster it'll gain momentum when things start to go wrong.

Because of the fact that you don't want to be driving at all quickly, the fact that your car is light and hence might hydroplane is of low importance, and the fact that it's not going to pick up speed really quickly when sliding down a hill if things go wrong is pretty handy.

Okay, in that video, that's not just "driving in snow" and not knowing how to do it. The street doesn't look like it's an incline so it must have been about as covered in ice as an ice rink. There is no way you can drive on that, no matter how experienced you are. This is a whole different thing than hitting a surprise patch of ice on an otherwise dry road, where, with nerves and luck and experience you can just sail over.

What I wanted to yell at the screen, though, was "Leave your fucking cars where they are and walk, you morons!" Like, seriously.

I've used studded snow tires, down shifting my transmission to slow down, being in 4WD, and going at a reasonable speed (although I've never has studded snow tires on my current truck). There's a nasty hill in the town I live in, and when it has snow/ice on it, it's pretty scary. I've never had a problem on that hill though (knock on wood), because I've been driving in this kind of crap every winter since 1992. That's not to say I haven't had problems on snow/ice, though (back when all I had was relatively powerful RWD vehicles from the late '70s).

This is the best solution.

http://www.spacehoppersite.co.uk/space-hopper-mega.gif

This could lead to tragicomedy, mind, so it might be worth giving a go, if only for the amusement of everyone else around you.
I'll just stand here and watch your landing on the icerink after the first jump, okay? :D

What I wanted to yell at the screen, though, was "Leave your fucking cars where they are and walk, you morons!" Like, seriously.
This is the best solution.

http://www.spacehoppersite.co.uk/space-hopper-mega.gif

This could lead to tragicomedy, mind, so it might be worth giving a go, if only for the amusement of everyone else around you.

Okay, in that video, that's not just "driving in snow" and not knowing how to do it. The street doesn't look like it's an incline so it must have been about as covered in ice as an ice rink. There is no way you can drive on that, no matter how experienced you are. This is a whole different thing than hitting a surprise patch of ice on an otherwise dry road, where, with nerves and luck and experience you can just sail over.

What I wanted to yell at the screen, though, was "Leave your fucking cars where they are and walk, you morons!" Like, seriously.

In the comments from the person that posted the video, he/she states that the hill is steep. The reason it doesn't look steep is perspective (notice though that the further the cars move to the right of the screen, the more speed they seem to pick up).

Okay, in that video, that's not just "driving in snow" and not knowing how to do it. The street doesn't look like it's an incline so it must have been about as covered in ice as an ice rink. There is no way you can drive on that, no matter how experienced you are. This is a whole different thing than hitting a surprise patch of ice on an otherwise dry road, where, with nerves and luck and experience you can just sail over.

What I wanted to yell at the screen, though, was "Leave your fucking cars where they are and walk, you morons!" Like, seriously.

Alright, so again, spoiled fair weather driver (who put houses there? Keep going west, dammit! It gets better! (ignoring the video is from Portland and any more west requires a boat...))-So, then, this is a shutdown condition, the road is ice and impassable except with specially equipped vehicles. How often does that happen, and how do those places function like that? Do buses have spiked tires to keep things moving along, or what?

First of all, why doesn't he just stop. Hit the brakes, and put it in park. When you crash that many times its time to get on a bus.

Anyway I guess you just get used to it.

Screw that, I'd walk.

First of all, why doesn't he just stop. Hit the brakes, and put it in park. When you crash that many times its time to get on a bus.

Anyway I guess you just get used to it.
Hitting the brakes is the exact opposite of what to do. Gradually slowing down is the way forward.

Hitting the brakes is the exact opposite of what to do. Gradually slowing down is the way forward.

It does seem like things went south for that Prius (the second car) when it tried to stop, and that SUV seemed like it was trying all kinds of nonsense...what was dragging behind it, anyway?

In the comments from the person that posted the video, he/she states that the hill is steep. The reason it doesn't look steep is perspective (notice though that the further the cars move to the right of the screen, the more speed they seem to pick up).Ah, didn't read the comments, thanks!
When the first car, the one that just keeps pinballing, kept going so fast I figured it had to be an incline but it really didn't look like it.
That it's a steep fucking hill of course only makes the people even bigger morons than I already thought. Gah. I mean, it's not like when they stepped out of the house and walked to their cars they didn't already notice that it's an icerink out there. :rolleyes:

Alright, so again, spoiled fair weather driver (who put houses there? Keep going west, dammit! It gets better! (ignoring the video is from Portland and any more west requires a boat...))-So, then, this is a shutdown condition, the road is ice and impassable except with specially equipped vehicles. How often does that happen, and how do those places function like that? Do buses have spiked tires to keep things moving along, or what?
Here (Germany) this kind of total shutdown conditions happens maybe a handful of times per winter, if that. In bigger cities, that is - if it's in some village somewhere it wouldn't exactly make the news and we'd never know about it.
And the places sorta don't function at all, at least not until the city trucks have come by putting salt on the streets.
If there's a subway and people can actually walk on the sidewalks they'll go to work, others will take the car and promptly slam it into something, most will have to stay home.
But usually, such conditions are over quickly here, because the ice doesn't really get thick enough to not be killable by salt.

Oh, almost forgot: the buses would be sliding, too, and hence very likely not be running.

Also, the city trucks would have to have snow chains, I'm guessing.

First of all, why doesn't he just stop. Hit the brakes, and put it in park. When you crash that many times its time to get on a bus.

Anyway I guess you just get used to it.
Yeah, no. Like Yootopia said above. Also, the whole point of sliding on ice is that you can't just stop. Otherwise it wouldn't be much of a problem.

Incidentally, I think I've only *really* slid on ice once in my life and it was the most horribly powerless feeling ever.

It does seem like things went south for that Prius (the second car) when it tried to stop, and that SUV seemed like it was trying all kinds of nonsense...what was dragging behind it, anyway?Its bumper? Or maybe it nicked a bumper from one of the other cars. It's not like it was lacking opportunity. :p

It does seem like things went south for that Prius (the second car) when it tried to stop
Yep, whereas the Beamer (somewhat lighter) was kind of OK.
SUV seemed like it was trying all kinds of nonsense...what was dragging behind it, anyway?
The weight of its carbon footprint :)

The weight of its carbon footprint :):p

Ah, didn't read the comments, thanks!
When the first car, the one that just keeps pinballing, kept going so fast I figured it had to be an incline but it really didn't look like it.
That it's a steep fucking hill of course only makes the people even bigger morons than I already thought. Gah. I mean, it's not like when they stepped out of the house and walked to their cars they didn't already notice that it's an icerink out there. :rolleyes:


Here (Germany) this kind of total shutdown conditions happens maybe a handful of times per winter, if that. In bigger cities, that is - if it's in some village somewhere it wouldn't exactly make the news and we'd never know about it.
And the places sorta don't function at all, at least not until the city trucks have come by putting salt on the streets.
If there's a subway and people can actually walk on the sidewalks they'll go to work, others will take the car and promptly slam it into something, most will have to stay home.
But usually, such conditions are over quickly here, because the ice doesn't really get thick enough to not be killable by salt.

Oh, almost forgot: the buses would be sliding, too, and hence very likely not be running.

Also, the city trucks would have to have snow chains, I'm guessing.
Yeah, at the end of that video there is that fire truck parked in the intersection as a kind of, "Yeah, no. Seriously, what are you guys thinking?"

I totally forgot about the salt! That would rot the hell out of my old cars. No CToaN visits until the sun shines, snow bound places!

Yeah, no. Like Yootopia said above. Also, the whole point of sliding on ice is that you can't just stop. Otherwise it wouldn't be much of a problem.

Incidentally, I think I've only *really* slid on ice once in my life and it was the most horribly powerless feeling ever.
I was a passenger when a roommate hit black ice on the freeway over the Tahoe mountains and we ended up backing into a cliff face and eventually a hole. Ah, good times...
Its bumper? Or maybe it nicked a bumper from one of the other cars. It's not like it was lacking opportunity. :p
It certainly seemed like it was going for high score...
Yep, whereas the Beamer (somewhat lighter) was kind of OK.
It also bailed out of the hill and went for the side road earlier, though. And is a 3-series really lighter than a Prius?

The weight of its carbon footprint :)
Zing!

Man I would've been out on that porch all day, keeping scores of how many drivers drove and how many cars they hit.

Sweet. It finally snowed here about a week ago, and we got freezing rain last night. I love it.

As for driving in snow? People need to take it easy. Drive slow, and use controlled movements, sudden steering changes, hitting the brakes or throttle hard all result in that video. The conditions dictate how one must drive, these people can't seem to figure this out and drive like it's a sunny afternoon, regardless if they are sideways sliding into a powerpole.

As for me driving in the snow? Depends on the car. Depends on the snow. Depends how sideways I wanna stay.;)

Man I would've been out on that porch all day, keeping scores of how many drivers drove and how many cars they hit.
This guy was, there's a news report on the sidebar which has most of the same footage, and it mentions that the guy noticed about 15 or so accidents that day.

There is very little I can't do in a car, and very few conditions I can't handle without thinking about it. I've never lost control of my car even in teenage years when I was, lets call it 'spirited.'

However, I have advantages beyond growing up in race cars. I live in a very temperate climate where it does not snow. So I never had to deal with this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk).

To me and my spoiled "my roads don't freeze" eyes, that looks damn hopeless.

But I've seen people respond to those videos with "Har har, dumb people don't know how to drive." And honestly, snow cities can't just shut down during the snow, do they? There has to be a technique that doesn't involve slowly sliding down the road like a 1 ton hockey puck.

So, snow bound drivers, on the off chance that I wander out of my weather paradise and into your snowy town, lay it on me-aside from chains, what's going to keep me from the slow slide into your side panels?

Aww man! I wanted to see the fire truck sliding all over the place.

Honestly, you're not supposed to hit your breaks like that on the snow. If you do that you slide around, well, like those guys.

I used to live near the top of a very steep hill. Right after one very heavy blizzard I had to leave the house for something. I started the car and started sliding down the hill. Even with very little momentum the breaks weren't even slowing down my slide. The bottom of the hill was a T intersection with a phone pole and an embankment which my trajectory was going to have me crash into. I turned the wheel and hit the gas. My rear spun out from behind me for a second, but the car came under control and I got to my destination safely. But from then on I parked at the top of the hill so I could go down the less steep side.

There is very little I can't do in a car, and very few conditions I can't handle without thinking about it. I've never lost control of my car even in teenage years when I was, lets call it 'spirited.'

However, I have advantages beyond growing up in race cars. I live in a very temperate climate where it does not snow. So I never had to deal with this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk).

To me and my spoiled "my roads don't freeze" eyes, that looks damn hopeless.

But I've seen people respond to those videos with "Har har, dumb people don't know how to drive." And honestly, snow cities can't just shut down during the snow, do they? There has to be a technique that doesn't involve slowly sliding down the road like a 1 ton hockey puck.

So, snow bound drivers, on the off chance that I wander out of my weather paradise and into your snowy town, lay it on me-aside from chains, what's going to keep me from the slow slide into your side panels?
It really helps to learn through experience, but it's all about slow, careful driving. It's that simple really. Also, make sure that if you do slip you don't do something stupid like slamming on the brakes. All of my driving has been learned on icy mountain roads...they're easily handled.

Now, urban traffic...that's another thing entirely...

First of all, never, ever, ever drive in conditions you are not comfortable with if you can avoid it. Ever.
That being said: It's a good idea when you're on a flat road with no one around you to test your brakes lightly so you know how much traction you have on the road. Drive a little slower than usual to account for changing road conditions, and give yourself more stopping distance than you think you need.

Though in a rain race heavier cars can push through the water and aren't as prone to hydroplaning as light weight cars, as shown at Turn 3 of Road Atlanta (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2365087456334518154&q=2007+road+atlanta+speed+gt&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0) (although with enough rain, even the tank like Cadillacs were on skates). This doesn't apply to snow?

Not no, but hell no. Snow isn't really liquid and isn't all that solid, either. It likes to become compacted and even slicker when it's driven on, especially if it sits overnight and the water on the pavement beneath it has a chance to freeze.

In case you doubt my snow driving pedigree, I lived for 26 in Seattle, and the city does indeed shut down when it snows and any of it sticks. More often than not, Seattle snow (a.k.a. "Cascade Concrete") is heavy and wet, and the temps don't get enoug below freezing for it to be more than mildly slushy as opposed to ice-rink thick (unlike eastern Washington, like Yakima, where freezing rain makes the stuff in your OP video look like sandpaper).

This is a natch, but the cars in that video are poking along, barely moving. Seems like 5 mph at times.

They may have been, but they made the mistake of turning down a steep hill. The camera's aerial perspective makes the road seem flat, but it is most assuredly not. There is very little flat real estate in Portland -- it's at the confluence of two sizeable rivers (Columbia/Willamette) and on the shoulder of a volcano (Mt. Hood).

The trouble is, lots of folks who move to the Pacific Northwest are from California or other flat or snowless places. The ones laughing at them are natives, or they moved from Michigan, the Dakotas, etc., where they're used to snow. Trouble is, again, that even those snowbound states produce drivers of inordinate confidence in snow because they had no genuine hills to negotiate back east. They come to Seattle or Portland or other hilly cities thinking they're invincible, and the smallest of hills proves them expensively wrong. Add to that the false confidence of all- or four-wheel drive, and it's a recipe for an auto insurer's nightmare.

This makes sense, just like most other low grip condition, don't shift the weight dramatically to throw the car one way or another.

Precisely. My father told me that in snow, you must drive as though you have no brakes, because in effect, you don't. "Drive with the accelerator", which meant slowly, and with at least two blocks of anticipation distance.

It doesn't seem like they have any grip at all, which is the only way counter-steering can have any effect.

They don't have any grip. To save money, many people simply hope they won't need snow tires in any given winter, and sometimes they'll get lucky a few winters in a row. It's one more expense that most people will avoid if they can. Thing is, snow tires are a prudent investment, even if you don't use them every year.

The other prudent investment is taking the time on a sunny weekend to scout out the routes you take to work or other places you usually need to go. Look at how steep the hills are, and then do your best to plan for snow my scouting out a route that is as flat as it can be. There are towns with populations under 10,000 here in North Dakota that have more sanding and plowing public works vehicles than Seattle does. Major routes will be well sanded in the PNW, but residential streets may never receive sand unless the snow hangs around for a few days. And plows? Emergency routes only unless the snow's staying.

One would hope! But most of the cars in that video are all by their lonesome until they play pinball down the street.

Yeah, that's kinda the pack mentality combined with what we're always told about accidents -- DON'T LEAVE. Well, sometimes it makes sense to get the hell outta the way.

In both of those conditions, though, I have to be going pretty fast and I have at least some grip (well, not when hydroplaning...) it's the low speed sliding with seeming no input from the tires that weirds me out. I might be mistaking the SUV for competence-it would seem to me it should have some ability to handle adverse conditions to at least pretend to be a truck...but I guess it can have 'summer' tires on it and not be as sorted as it pretends to be.

Precisely. Once snow has a chance to set and freeze, it isn't snow anymore, it's compacted snow, which is second only to actual ice, which it can become if you get above-freezing days with freezing nights, as is common with snow patterns in the PNW -- again, the snow is not the cornstarch snow of the Upper Midwest, it's heavy and wet and more like ice when it's compacted than drier, flakier stuff found elsewhere.

I tend to put 'all season' tires on my car, but I have a feeling it's all of my seasons, and we only have two and half...

Thing is, if you drive carefully enough, all-season tires will work fine. I've never owned a set of snow tires in all my driving history. Chains, yes, but that's because I went to school across the Cascade Range, and if I wanted to go home for Thanksgiving or Christmas, I needed chains.

You also have to be wise enough to walk outside before you drive and check the conditions. If you can barely walk on it, driving will not be any easier. You might just have to call in stuck or find alternate means of transportation. Which nicely segues to...

Alright, so again, spoiled fair weather driver (who put houses there? Keep going west, dammit! It gets better! (ignoring the video is from Portland and any more west requires a boat...))-So, then, this is a shutdown condition, the road is ice and impassable except with specially equipped vehicles. How often does that happen, and how do those places function like that? Do buses have spiked tires to keep things moving along, or what?

PNW buses are usually outfitted with chains, and while they can still get stuck, better them than you. Routes will be truncated, as they're not going to risk certain hills or tight quarters in order to minimize potential hazards. You'll likely be late, but you'll get there.

Again, it's an exercise in patience and thoughtful driving, which are two things the average US driver doesn't have, and PNW drivers lack in particular because of insanely-planned freeway and arterial construction (Seattle built Freeway Park and the state convention center over a critical section of downtown I-5, thereby guaranteeing that it will never expand to more than two through lanes).

The good news is that many people have learned from earlier errors and just stay off the roads when the news tells them to. That means less people overall. Be patient, avoid unnecessary lane changes, and budget lots of extra time.

Wow. Just talking about driving in teh snow back there makes me homesick. :(

There is very little I can't do in a car, and very few conditions I can't handle without thinking about it. I've never lost control of my car even in teenage years when I was, lets call it 'spirited.'

However, I have advantages beyond growing up in race cars. I live in a very temperate climate where it does not snow. So I never had to deal with this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk).

To me and my spoiled "my roads don't freeze" eyes, that looks damn hopeless.

But I've seen people respond to those videos with "Har har, dumb people don't know how to drive." And honestly, snow cities can't just shut down during the snow, do they? There has to be a technique that doesn't involve slowly sliding down the road like a 1 ton hockey puck.

So, snow bound drivers, on the off chance that I wander out of my weather paradise and into your snowy town, lay it on me-aside from chains, what's going to keep me from the slow slide into your side panels?
Growing up in Minnesota that was not a normal snow or ice day ...

Now we end up with these sort of days only maybe 2 times a Year ... you know what the fuck we do ... WAIT for like two hours for sand/salt trucks to hit the roads

The sort of days that cause what the video shows are rare for the most part ... that was beyond the norm. And in that case many of thoes drivers are very guilty of 1) not recognizing the conditions as being beyond the norm 2) some of them when coming to a stop rather then just staying in position they try to move causing the big slides and such

A TVR with a loud, loud horn might be the best option here. :D

I loled at the video.

Anyway, it's basically all been said. Be slow and deliberate. The brakes are not your friends. I drive a Miata in rural Michigan winters, where the roads normally look like this, and if I can do that (I consider myself a rather average driver) most people with a bit of experience should be able to get around just fine with a more suitable car.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a353/tuebor/CIMG0621.jpg

Trouble is, again, that even those snowbound states produce drivers of inordinate confidence in snow because they had no genuine hills to negotiate back east.

Have you ever been to northern Michigan? It gets quite hilly up there (such as on M-115 and M-55 between Clare and Manistee if you're familiar with the area).

edit: And sort of off-topic, I've always thought it interesting that people out west (I've only been as far west as Colorado) say "back east" whereas here we say "out east". I wonder where exactly the line is that separates the two.

A standard transmission helps. Rear wheel drive is impossible - you need front-wheel or, preferably, 4-wheel drive.

I moved to Colorado Springs last December and got a quick and dirty lesson in driving in snow and ice. Always keep your car in first gear - speed really does kill. Like Kat says, use your brakes sparingly - you use your brakes and you lose control. Always allow plenty of time - you won't want to drive 40-50 miles an hour to get somewhere but more like 5-15 miles per hour. Always be aware of the drivers around you and what they're doing.

I don't have snow tires, but I do have good, new all-weather tires.

Above all, if you don't have to drive, don't!

A lightweight car with properly suitable tyres?

lightweight car=small car=small tyres -> ok on icy roads, terrible on snowy (lots of it) roads

C'mon guys, it's Portland (OR) doesn't snow much there and drivers are not used to those conditions.
When you live in a country where road conditions in winter are like this (http://pda.ceskenoviny.cz/archiv/index_img.php?id=70783) you get more used to this kind of driving.

Anyways:

Use always winter tyres (I use Pirelli Scorpion Mud & Snow on my Forrester and Nokian Winter Tyres on my ZX. Never had to use chains).
Use chains if your tyres are cold and there's ice on the road.
Take a course in safe driving.
Drive slowly.
Don't break hard (ABS might help, but not much on ice).
Don't steer too hard.
.

The most important thing in winter driving is to know when it isn't safe to drive, and then not driving. New England had a massive blizzard/ Nor'easter back in 1993 where many of the roads were solid ice. To drive in that is stupidity.

Drive slowly. If you are driving a standard, stay in lower gears. If you drive an automatic, shift it down...there is a reason automatics still have a shift. Go down to 2nd. The engine power will slow you down if the brakes aren't working.

Slow down before you start to take a corner. Breaking in a turn is asking for a skid.
If you skid, know how to steer out of it. Go to a high school parking lot and practice.
Carry salt or kitty litter with you. Throw something heavy in the trunk.
NEVER slam on your breaks. If you don't have ABS, pump them. If you do have ABS, don't pump them. Let them do their job.
Keep an eye out for black ice.
Buy studded snow tires. If you drive something bigger, consider chains.

There is very little I can't do in a car, and very few conditions I can't handle without thinking about it. I've never lost control of my car even in teenage years when I was, lets call it 'spirited.'

However, I have advantages beyond growing up in race cars. I live in a very temperate climate where it does not snow. So I never had to deal with this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk).

To me and my spoiled "my roads don't freeze" eyes, that looks damn hopeless.

But I've seen people respond to those videos with "Har har, dumb people don't know how to drive." And honestly, snow cities can't just shut down during the snow, do they? There has to be a technique that doesn't involve slowly sliding down the road like a 1 ton hockey puck.

So, snow bound drivers, on the off chance that I wander out of my weather paradise and into your snowy town, lay it on me-aside from chains, what's going to keep me from the slow slide into your side panels?

Winter tires.

Btw, while watching the snow and cars video, saw this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os16l7oeFjE

LMAO

To me and my spoiled "my roads don't freeze" eyes, that looks damn hopeless.Pfft, that's nothing. You can actually see the road!!

But I've seen people respond to those videos with "Har har, dumb people don't know how to drive."Indeed. And honestly, snow cities can't just shut down during the snow, do they?Get enough of it, and they will. During a blizzard several years back, everyone was ordered to stay in their homes and businesses were ordered closed. The only people allowed out were hospital workers and the like: my mom, a nurse, was picked up by the National Guard so she could go to work.

There has to be a technique that doesn't involve slowly sliding down the road like a 1 ton hockey puck.Sure. First, get good tires. Second, learn to use the break sparingly--it's breaking that will kill you, because once you get into a really good slide there's nothing to do but ride it out and try to avoid a spin.

The tough part is probably learning the right "sensitivity": not every snow behaves the same way, and in some you can drive rather normally if you're sensitive to road conditions and you have a feel for how your vehicle is responding to the road. But I think that only comes with experience.

There is very little I can't do in a car, and very few conditions I can't handle without thinking about it. I've never lost control of my car even in teenage years when I was, lets call it 'spirited.'

However, I have advantages beyond growing up in race cars. I live in a very temperate climate where it does not snow. So I never had to deal with this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk).

To me and my spoiled "my roads don't freeze" eyes, that looks damn hopeless.

But I've seen people respond to those videos with "Har har, dumb people don't know how to drive." And honestly, snow cities can't just shut down during the snow, do they? There has to be a technique that doesn't involve slowly sliding down the road like a 1 ton hockey puck.

So, snow bound drivers, on the off chance that I wander out of my weather paradise and into your snowy town, lay it on me-aside from chains, what's going to keep me from the slow slide into your side panels?

I live in Iceland, and the law says that during wintertime, you must switch to these sort of winter tires:
http://www.bilaverid.is/files/Image/Myndir/Myndir_dekk/hkpl2_tuote_iso.jpg
The white spots are pointy nails which give you better grip so your car won't slide.

They are safer and prevent accidents, but the downside is that they cause alot of wear and tear on the roads and cause air pollution because they grind the asphalt to dust.

Ride a bike. When I hit a long patch of black ice in the winter on a downhill slope, I just stick both my feet out and sorta ski down. A pair of studded tires will cost you about 75$ and will last two winters. Mind you, I'm not such a huge fan of them. On wet asphalt, the metal nails can actually be more slippery than rubber.

Have you ever been to northern Michigan? It gets quite hilly up there (such as on M-115 and M-55 between Clare and Manistee if you're familiar with the area).

edit: And sort of off-topic, I've always thought it interesting that people out west (I've only been as far west as Colorado) say "back east" whereas here we say "out east". I wonder where exactly the line is that separates the two.

All I'll say is Google up-close pictures of downtown Seattle and tell me Marquette has anything like those hills. Now picture them with a layer of snow that's melted and re-frozen. It is the height of hilarity to watch someone slavishly obeying a red light when it means he's going to slide backwards at least until the previous intersection if not all the way down to (and possibly off) a pier.

I guess we said "back east" because we were born in Lansing and lived in Detroit and other places in the LP and then moved to California and eventually stopped in Seattle. My uncle and cousins are long-time Yoopers ever since my uncle got his job at the State Pen in the 70s.

All I'll say is Google up-close pictures of downtown Seattle and tell me Marquette has anything like those hills. Now picture them with a layer of snow that's melted and re-frozen. It is the height of hilarity to watch someone slavishly obeying a red light when it means he's going to slide backwards at least until the previous intersection if not all the way down to (and possibly off) a pier.

By northern Michigan I meant between Clare and Mackinack. I'm very much a troll in my geographical definitions. The hilly portion I'm talking about is Manistee, Traverse City, Petoskey, that sort of area. Not quite as hilly as Seattle, but hilly nontheless. When I was growing up I spent severals hours on the schoolbus because it was stuck in the saddle between two hills, unable to get out due to the snow. We didn't get out until a wrecker from the local Guard unit (apparently someone in the Guard unit worked for the school system and got a favor) came and extracted us.

I guess we said "back east" because we were born in Lansing and lived in Detroit and other places in the LP and then moved to California and eventually stopped in Seattle. My uncle and cousins are long-time Yoopers ever since my uncle got his job at the State Pen in the 70s.

Even the native Coloradoans said "back east". I just think it's an interesting phrase with the implication of being settlers and all. It just sounds so western.