NationStates Jolt Archive

Wow how deep into the pockets of Congress is the music industry? This brings the Music industry to a new all time low. Now they are threatening the funding of innocent students that have done NOTHING wrong if Universities dont do exactly what they say. Unbelievable.http://www.news.com/Democrats-Colleges-must-police-copyright%2C-or-else/2100-1028_3-6217943.html?tag=nefd.lede

"According to the bill, if universities did not agree to test "technology-based deterrents to prevent such illegal activity," all of their students--even ones who don't own a computer--would lose federal financial aid."

Ridiculous.

I agree it is ridiculous but compared to the oil and tobacco industries this is a trifle.

It's a threat. I'd assume it's not meant to be carried out.

It's a threat. I'd assume it's not meant to be carried out.
You underestimate the record industry and the school funding commissions.

Don't worry, it's just the US. The youth of the US didn't have a future anyway, this is just speeding the process up.

Don't worry, it's just the US. The youth of the US didn't have a future anyway, this is just speeding the process up.

I'm a US citizen (and young) and I wholly agree with this statement.

Wow. Fuck the music industry. Fuck the greedy corporate bitch Democrats in office too.

Not content with trying to stupefy the younger generation with its output of drivel, the "music" industry is now threatening them with a curtailment of their education. I trust that any software used to block content won't be that produced by the IT divisions of congolerates who contain media divisions.

Colleges should respond to this by refusing to allow students to play any music that is under copyright of any form. Let them hear Mozart. They should then demand that the "music" industry reimburse them for the difficulty of teaching students who have been dumbed down by listening to garbage that emanates from their "artistes".;)

I must be very tired, but what exactly would the universities have to do if this bill passes?

Every voter in the country should get on the phone with their representative and also write a letter which states categorically, "If you vote for this piece of extortion, you're out of a job come election time."

I'd love to see the Mall full of furious parents, professors, consumers, and students demanding to know why the record industry is determining what happens to THEIR TAX DOLLARS.

And then, I believe, the absolute best thing to do: stop buying CDs. Stop downloading from legitimate sites. Doesn't everyone have a large enough music collection already? Just go see local bands and let the record industry take one where it hurts -- the pocketbook.

Of course, people are so short-sighted they will not do it, because hey, the next piece of commercial drivel coming down the pike is a must-have, but if people just stopped buying CDs altogether, stopped paying iTunes and places like that, and didn't download music illegally you can bet the industry and their bedmates in Congress would sit up and take notice.

What are they going to do, start tracking USB drive and blank CD sales then?

"According to the bill, if universities did not agree to test "technology-based deterrents to prevent such illegal activity," all of their students--even ones who don't own a computer--would lose federal financial aid."

Not the key word in the article. "Democrats: Colleges must police copyright, or else"

And there are those on this forum who say Democrat does not equal Socialist. :(

This seems to target students who live on campus primarily, though it would affect all who attend. This raises an interesting question, how does this bill intend to curb the "illegal" activities of students who live off campus or at home while they attend school? The monitoring of those computers would be impossible. So then in practice, this bill would violate the privacy rights of students on campus who have their own computers (not school equipment) being subject to rules that don't apply to others.

This contravenes the right to innocent until proven guilty. This bill assumes that all students are automatically guilty.

Further, this bill interferes with the right to liberty, life and happiness. It would remove a student's ability to pay for their education should they be unable to afford it otherwise, thus hurting their life and destroying their chance at liberty and happiness.

What are they going to do, start tracking USB drive and blank CD sales then?

Even if they don't, there is already a surtax levied on blank media on the assumption that we're going to use it for music and not just storage. It assumes a certain level of guilt over innocence and that somehow anyone who buys blank media is going to download music and never buy any.

Every voter in the country should get on the phone with their representative and also write a letter which states categorically, "If you vote for this piece of extortion, you're out of a job come election time."

I'd love to see the Mall full of furious parents, professors, consumers, and students demanding to know why the record industry is determining what happens to THEIR TAX DOLLARS.

And then, I believe, the absolute best thing to do: stop buying CDs. Stop downloading from legitimate sites. Doesn't everyone have a large enough music collection already? Just go see local bands and let the record industry take one where it hurts -- the pocketbook.

Of course, people are so short-sighted they will not do it, because hey, the next piece of commercial drivel coming down the pike is a must-have, but if people just stopped buying CDs altogether, stopped paying iTunes and places like that, and didn't download music illegally you can bet the industry and their bedmates in Congress would sit up and take notice.

What are they going to do, start tracking USB drive and blank CD sales then?

I would. Unfortunately, I don't have a representative in the US at the moment, and by the time I do, it will be too late.

I'll just end up having to go to a different University if they manage to pass this piece of crap, as I won't be able to afford going to Caltech, where I want to, without a fair bit of funding.

And there are those on this forum who say Democrat does not equal Socialist. :(
Even us socialists are outraged at this proposition. The idea of depriving funds from education because of the actions of an unrelated industrial organisation is an absolute disgrace. I certainly won't be buying any CDs from American Publishers for some time.

The idea that Congress (and yes, Democrats, but if this trash passes it's because Republicans will have added their votes too, remember) are this blatantly in bed with the music industry and would happily remove financial aid from the table, making many unable to become college educated, is what sticks in my craw.

They will never go after the individuals who do it, or the sites that put up the music -- but they will go after Federal financial aid to prevent people who may not have had anything to do with this from bettering themselves. OR, force colleges to pony up "subscriptions" to prevent this.

Excuse me? Isn't that the whole scheme behind protection money? "You pay this fee or your business might get burned to the ground. Accidents happen."

Revolting.

For once, I agree with the Democrats -- any step towards abolishing the forced redistribution of wealth that is "federal financial aid" is a move in the correct direction. The Democrats need to abandon their socialist stances and embrace the future; it appears that they are beginning to do so, albeit tortuously and maddeningly slowly.

Not the key word in the article. "Democrats: Colleges must police copyright, or else"

And there are those on this forum who say Democrat does not equal Socialist. :(

Do you even know what a socialist is?

For once, I agree with the Democrats -- any step towards abolishing the forced redistribution of wealth that is "federal financial aid" is a move in the correct direction. The Democrats need to abandon their socialist stances and embrace the future; it appears that they are beginning to do so, albeit tortuously and maddeningly slowly.

Thank you, you have reinforced my opinion that 10 people cant agree on the color of shit.

The idea that Congress (and yes, Democrats, but if this trash passes it's because Republicans will have added their votes too, remember) are this blatantly in bed with the music industry and would happily remove financial aid from the table, making many unable to become college educated, is what sticks in my craw.

Don't you see? Education has always been a favorite whacking toy for politicians. Nobody wielding power cares because hey, children can't vote, are easily distracted and parents as a whole are more than willing to fob it off entirely on the education board for their child's knowledge base. It's the school's fault for not being able to make a $200,000 annual budget run on $2 and not the politician's who slashed in their eyes.

And since the MPAA has probably almost all the politicians of note in their pocket, they figure that here's another place to suck dry that nobody would make an uproar about because those of note who have the pull are either too stupid and ignorant while those who do understand either are in bed with the MPAA or are treated as a fringe group.

It may not be some grand conspiracy, but come 20 years time, America as a whole will be frighteningly ignorant, if not already.

And ignorant people are easier to oppress than knowledgeable people anyway.

May I quote MC Lars (http://music.download.com/mclars/3600-8520_32-100912467.html) on this issue:

It’s 2006, the consumer’s still pissed
Won’t take it anymore so I’m writing a list
Don’t try to resist this paradigm shift
The music revolution cannot be dismissed
$18.98 Iggy pop CD
What if I can get it from my sister for free?
It’s all about marketing Clive Davis see
If fans buy the shirt then they get the mp3
Music was a product now it is a service
Major record labels why are you trying to hurt us
Epic’s up in my face like don’t steal our songs Lars
While Sony sells the burners that are burning CD-R's
So Warner EMI hear me clearly
Universal music, update your circuitry
They sue little kids downloading hit songs
They think that makes sense
When they know that it’s wrong

Hey Mr. Record man the joke’s on you
Running your label like it was 1992
Hey Mr. record man your system can’t compete
It’s the new artist model file transfer complete

La la la la la la la la
Download this song
La la la la la la la la
Download this song
La la la la la la la la
Download this song

I know I’m rhyming fast but the message is clear
You don’t need a million dollars to launch a career
If your style is unique and you practice what you preach
Minor threat and jello both have things to teach
I’ve got G5 production concept videos
Touring with a laptop rocking packed shows
The old-school major deal it makes no sense
Indentured servitude the costs are too immense
Their finger’s in the dam but the crack keeps on growing
Can’t sell bottled water when it’s freely flowing
Record sales slipping down 8 percent
Increased download sales you can’t prevent
Satellite radio and video games
Changed the terrain it will never be the same
Did you know in ten years labels won’t exist?
Goodbye DVDs and compact disks

Hey Mr. record man what’s wrong with you
Still living off your catalogue from 1982
Hey Mr. record man your system can’t compete
It’s the new artist model file transfer complete

La la la la la la la la
Download this song
La la la la la la la la
Download this song
La la la la la la la la
Download this song

You know we just wanted a level playing field. You’ve overcharged us for music for years and now we’re just trying to find a fair balance. I hate to say it but...welcome to the future

La la la la la la la la
Download this song
La la la la la la la la
Download this song
La la la la la la la la
Download this song

Hey Mr. Record man the joke’s on you (download this song)
Running your label like it was 1992 (download this song)
Hey Mr. record man your system can’t compete (download this song)
It’s the new artist model file transfer complete

Which is why, NAS, I would like people to tell their representatives -- they people they put in power -- "You do this and there will be housecleaning."

The reason such crap passes is because 30% of the eligible voting public is voting, and therefore they dictate to everyone what happens.

If everyone who could vote would get on the phone or type a letter and threaten to put their local reps out of a job should they vote for this, we'd see how fast Congress stops fellating the Music Industry.

Of course, with the apathy in this country, that will never happen, and people will bitch and complain after the fact how rotten it is.

Reps. George Miller from California and Ruben Hinojosa of Texas are behind the bill according the the article. Clearly these two assholes need to be kicked out and to have the Democratic party have replacements run for them in '08. I'm sure it won't happen though. Disgusting, I hope the MPAA is paying these guys a lot of money to blackmail universities and students over their opportunity to go to college.

Of course it is just two people, I didn't see anything in the article of the bills chances of making it out of committee. With any luck it will die there.

Even if they don't, there is already a surtax levied on blank media on the assumption that we're going to use it for music and not just storage. It assumes a certain level of guilt over innocence and that somehow anyone who buys blank media is going to download music and never buy any.
Maybe people should start arguing that buying blank media to burn 'stolen' songs on counts as paying for said songs because of the tax levied on blank media by the entertainment industry.

Maybe people should start arguing that buying blank media to burn 'stolen' songs on counts as paying for said songs because of the tax levied on blank media by the entertainment industry.

Actually, I'm not arguing that, that's how it works in Canada for now (we're taxed on blank media), hence, why the CRIA has the biting power of a toothless cat. However, I'm not saying that it is the same as paying for the songs. What I'm saying it, we're subject to a surtax on the grounds of presume guilt, which is that a person only buys blank media solely for the purpose of burning music or movies and not something else.

Actually, I'm not arguing that, that's how it works in Canada for now (we're taxed on blank media), hence, why the CRIA has the biting power of a toothless cat. However, I'm not saying that it is the same as paying for the songs. What I'm saying it, we're subject to a surtax on the grounds of presume guilt, which is that a person only buys blank media solely for the purpose of burning music or movies and not something else.

Right. Because I'd have no interest in say, burning my financial records to disc and putting them in a safe deposit box -- burning my digital pictures to disc... burning my years of lesson plans to disc... burning all my gradebooks to disc... making a video about my cat and burning it to disc... and no, I couldn't possibly have bought a ton of discs recently to burn pictures of my students performing in skits they wrote so that each of them could have one...


;) So when you do think we'll have to start submitting a thumbprint to buy media?

Right. Because I'd have no interest in say, burning my financial records to disc and putting them in a safe deposit box -- burning my digital pictures to disc... burning my years of lesson plans to disc... burning all my gradebooks to disc... making a video about my cat and burning it to disc... and no, I couldn't possibly have bought a ton of discs recently to burn pictures of my students performing in skits they wrote so that each of them could have one...


;) So when you do think we'll have to start submitting a thumbprint to buy media?

I was just thinking the same thing.

Recently we used a blank disc so we could make a recovery disk when my husband's computer started to act weird after HGL hard crashed to POST. Oh no! Not using blank media for something else!

It wouldn't surprise me if blank media was redesigned with some sort of trigger function on it that would analyse the data being selected for storage to determine if it was legal to burn it.

This seems to have been numbered H.R.4137, but Thomas (http://thomas.loc.gov) doesn't have it online yet. We'll see what happens to it. It's in four comittees as of Friday, and the majority of bills never make it out. Also, this thing is like 700 pages long - which is long even for a bill - so it probably doing a number of other things as well.

I was just thinking the same thing.

Recently we used a blank disc so we could make a recovery disk when my husband's computer started to act weird after HGL hard crashed to POST. Oh no! Not using blank media for something else!

It wouldn't surprise me if blank media was redesigned with some sort of trigger function on it that would analyse the data being selected for storage to determine if it was legal to burn it.

I'm not sure you could do that with the media hardware itself - you'd have to write it into the burner.

And then you'd see a massive rise in apps which can conceal data as other things for burning purposes.

And how would it cope with free music, not stuffed full of drm or proprietary filetypes? It would be fun to watch people try, but it would never work.

I'm not sure you could do that with the media hardware itself - you'd have to write it into the burner.

And then you'd see a massive rise in apps which can conceal data as other things for burning purposes.

And how would it cope with free music, not stuffed full of drm or proprietary filetypes? It would be fun to watch people try, but it would never work.

I never said it was going to work. ;) I just said the industry would find a way to scan data before a circumvent was discovered.

I still don't get why they didn't seize the opportunity and take their shit online like every other industry did. What a bunch of saps.

Disgusting. Just fucking disgusting. I have friends who only get to go to college because of federal aid. Taking it away for a few worthless fat cats is vile and unforgivable. I'm going to go download some music. If a band wants my money, they can either start releasing on an independant label, or come tour near to here. I'm more than glad to put up $20 for a ticket and $25 for a shirt. It goes to the band, and not the fucking RIAA, but not another cent for Sony, Universal, or Atlantic.

Not the key word in the article. "Democrats: Colleges must police copyright, or else"

And there are those on this forum who say Democrat does not equal Socialist. :(
Because forcing schools to use "technology-based deterrents" under the threat of removing financial aid for education for the purpose of aiding multi-million dollar corporations, making low-income students suffer and risk loosing their education is socialist how?

And I guess any republicans backing this bill are socialist too?

Trilby63;13207051']Do you even know what a socialist is?
Apparently not - as shown time and time again.

And there are those on this forum who say Democrat does not equal Socialist. :(

How the fuck does this have anything to do with socialism? Screwing the 'little guy' is the opposite of socialism. The Dems and Repubs are both crony-capitalist parties, they like corporate welfare and big goverment and don't give a shit about average people.

Wow how deep into the pockets of Congress is the music industry? This brings the Music industry to a new all time low. Now they are threatening the funding of innocent students that have done NOTHING wrong if Universities dont do exactly what they say. Unbelievable.http://www.news.com/Democrats-Colleges-must-police-copyright%2C-or-else/2100-1028_3-6217943.html?tag=nefd.lede

"According to the bill, if universities did not agree to test "technology-based deterrents to prevent such illegal activity," all of their students--even ones who don't own a computer--would lose federal financial aid."

And none of you believe me when I say the dems are just as bad as reps if not worse. *sighs* :headbang:

Not the key word in the article. "Democrats: Colleges must police copyright, or else"

And there are those on this forum who say Democrat does not equal Socialist. :(

They are threatening to take funding away from schools. This is the opposite of Socialism. Seriously, learn what socialism/communism actually is as you clearly do not understand it.

Wow how deep into the pockets of Congress is the music industry? This brings the Music industry to a new all time low. Now they are threatening the funding of innocent students that have done NOTHING wrong if Universities dont do exactly what they say. Unbelievable.http://www.news.com/Democrats-Colleges-must-police-copyright%2C-or-else/2100-1028_3-6217943.html?tag=nefd.lede

"According to the bill, if universities did not agree to test "technology-based deterrents to prevent such illegal activity," all of their students--even ones who don't own a computer--would lose federal financial aid."

I don't find the alleged language anywhere in the bill (http://edlabor.house.gov/bills/HEAReauthorizationText.pdf)(747 page pdf).

What I do find is this rather moderate proposal on pages 411-412:

‘SEC. 494. CAMPUS-BASED DIGITAL THEFT PREVENTION.
‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—Each eligible institution participating in any program under this title shall to the extent practicable—
‘‘(1) make publicly available to their students and employees, the policies and procedures related to the illegal downloading and distribution of copy-righted materials required to be disclosed under section 485(a)(1)(P); and
‘‘(2) develop a plan for offering alternatives to illegal downloading or peer-to-peer distribution of intellectual property as well as a plan to explore technology-based deterrents to prevent such illegal activity.

It seems to mean the bill only requires institutions "to the extent practicable" (a) disseminate polices and procedures related to illegal downloading and distribution of copyrighted materials, (b) "develop a plan" for alternatives to illegal downloading and peer-to-peer distribution of IP, and (c) "develop a plan to explore" technology-based deterrents to prevent such illegal activity.

One can debate the merits of such requirements, but they do not match the hysterical claims of your OP article.

Once again people are so quick to vent their spleen against intellectual property protections that they fail to check what it is they are talking about.

I have e-mailed Senators Bond and McCaskill (Missouri) with the following message:

Hello, Senator (WRITING TO), I hope this message sees you well.

I am 20 years old, and I've come across some very disturbing news: that there is currently a bill which would mandate college policement on peer to peer filesharing - or suffer the loss of federal funding for their students.

This is an outrage - a revolting ploy by the MCAA to dip their hands into a defenseless institution's pockets. It is unconstitutional because peer to peer filesharing networks are not necessarily exclusive to (or even inclusive of) the sharing of copyrighted materials in any form. The bill would essentially destroy any college who failed to comply by buying subscriptions sold by the MCAA or denied students the ability to access uncopyrighted materials necessitated by their courses. If there is justice in this country, then the MCAA will have its hand slapped and colleges will not be required to police their students. After all, colleges in the United States have been working with the entertainment industry to help stop illegal filesharing - the threat of government funding being cut to all of a college's students on this unconstitutional basis is ludicrous.

I write to you, and to Senator (OTHER), because I am concerned for my future - I privately educated myself beyond the 8th grade, and so my only hope of continuing my education is to receive funding for it. Would you deny me, and thousands of others like me, that opportunity because a college doesn't want to cheapen their ability to procure resources online? Please consider this carefully.

I strongly encourage you all to go to www.senate.gov, find your senators (there is a dropdown list in the upper right), and send them both a similar message. Each voice is small, but Senators are human too. Perhaps something we say will strike a chord and speak to their emotions.

Not the key word in the article. "Democrats: Colleges must police copyright, or else"

And there are those on this forum who say Democrat does not equal Socialist. :(
What the fuck do copyrights have to do with socialism? Intellectual property should be shared, not owned.

Which is why, NAS, I would like people to tell their representatives -- they people they put in power -- "You do this and there will be housecleaning."

The reason such crap passes is because 30% of the eligible voting public is voting, and therefore they dictate to everyone what happens.

If everyone who could vote would get on the phone or type a letter and threaten to put their local reps out of a job should they vote for this, we'd see how fast Congress stops fellating the Music Industry.

Of course, with the apathy in this country, that will never happen, and people will bitch and complain after the fact how rotten it is.

The last paragraph is exactly why there will never be a change. Those who care are too small a minority for those who are in power to care about.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The only way to affect real change is by throwing out the entire political population.

The last paragraph is exactly why there will never be a change. Those who care are too small a minority for those who are in power to care about.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The only way to affect real change is by cleansing the entire political population. In fact, do the same for all lobby groups as well.

Not just remove from office. Remove from life, or at least deport them to the moon.

The new ones who fill their shoes might do things differently then.

No, because those apathetic masses you were just talking about would be the ones to fill the shoes. And the cycle would continue.

The only way to institute a political system that isn't backwards is to revert to despotism, and then be a very open-handed and liberal dictator.

No, because those apathetic masses you were just talking about would be the ones to fill the shoes. And the cycle would continue.

The only way to institute a political system that isn't backwards is to revert to despotism, and then be a very open-handed and liberal dictator.

You will still have unhappy people. So you really haven't fixed anything. You need a balance. In this case, it would be a moderate or centrist position that makes the most of each side of the spectrum.

You will still have unhappy people. So you really haven't fixed anything. You need a balance. In this case, it would be a moderate or centrist position that makes the most of each side of the spectrum.

There will always be unhappy people no matter what. The closest thing to the contrary would be a theocracy.

If I could snap my fingers and turn the USA into whatever form of government I wanted with me as leader, it would be a despotism and I would focus most of my attention and resources on the educational system and encourage open-mindedness and critical thinking. Practicality. Logic over emotion, but not the deadening of emotion. Honesty above all else. These things I would promote as strongly as possible without brainwashing.

Then, a generation later, the country would have an overwhelming majority of assertive thinkers. Of course this whole thing would severely distress the various resident doomsday cults staining the country and its policies, but hey, I did say if *I* was in charge...

No, because those apathetic masses you were just talking about would be the ones to fill the shoes. And the cycle would continue.

The only way to institute a political system that isn't backwards is to revert to despotism, and then be a very open-handed and liberal dictator.

Who said anything about stopping the deportation/killing process?

The problem is that you don't have a decent set of consequences for those caught being corrupt.

Now if you adopted China's policy of shooting corrupt politicians and combined it with Singapore's scrupulous anti-corruption measures, you'd have something decent.

The price of good governance is eternal vigilance. If it's vigilance against being killed for being corrupt, all the better.

music isn't an industry


although there is a "music industry"

Not the key word in the article. "Democrats: Colleges must police copyright, or else"
This is really, really pathetic, given the climate of the past SEVERAL years.
Contract on America, my ass.

And there are those on this forum who say Democrat does not equal Socialist. :(

And they'd be right.

And none of you believe me when I say the dems are just as bad as reps if not worse. *sighs* :headbang:

That's because we're not suckers who believe any chance people like you get to spread bullshit about your political ideals. :headbang:
No offense.

What a pain in the ass

And this is coming from someone who was a school network administrator (until two months ago)

But to be fair we already had forced "best efford" denial of service upon request through the state school system. Which meant that if the RIAA or MPAA put a request in through formal channels we were required to make a best effort intervention on the students ability to download illegal content

What that meant for us was shutting off their internet access until we could "talk" to them. For the most part I am sure this is ineffectual but a few of them I think were truly confused about the situation ... some had thought for example that paying for Kazaa paid for the content...

But either way no information was ever given out but we did have to record that the student was informed of the risks of copyrighted material downloading.

Either way I dont envy my replacement if this sort of shit actually went through

... stop buying CDs. Stop downloading from legitimate sites.Which will then all be attributed to piracy by record companies, leading to even stricter measures, strengthening the feedback effect even further, etc. Which I actually find good, because these cartels are screwing with all of the western world (as seen here, too, though their influence is thankfully not as ridiculously strong), and the sooner they smash right into the ground and finally die, the better.