NationStates Jolt Archive

Rather than chasing ghosts or fighting aliens, Against All Odds guides the gamer through the experience of being a refugee.

The game was designed by workers in the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR).

Its various challenges include escaping from a hostile town, guiding your character across a dangerous border and staying alive in foreign lands with unfamiliar languages.

"We found that children start forming ideas on refugees and similar issues at around the age of 12 to 15," said Katherine Rodriguez-Norman, who helped develop the game. "This seemed like a cost-effective way to target that audience."

The game certainly pitches for that age group. In one section, the player goes through the awkward challenges of making friends in a new classroom.

On another (somewhat more gruesome) level, the player must sign away a series of rights; failure to comply results in blood splashing across the screen.

The game was developed in UNHCR's Stockholm office using money from a local donor. In 2005 staff released it in Norway and Sweden, and set about encouraging teachers to use it in middle school civics lessons.


(link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7087870.stm))

It's certainly an unusual idea...

Sounds boring, they could have at least thrown in some dinosaurs! :sniper: (Sorry, haven't done that before, had to get it out of the system!)

Though actually I think I'll give it a try.

So you basically lose your home, some family members, be pushed out of your home country into a country that doesn't even want you, live in substandard conditions and barely hanging on by a thread?

Fannnntastic.... The UN should stay out of the video game market.

Bit tricky to simulate refugee life to people sitting on their chairs with a PC, no?

Nice thought and all, but I doubt that it'll really give much of what the real experience must be like.

A link to the actual game. (http://www.playagainstallodds.com/)

Edit: It may appear that nothing is happening. Just wait a moment.

looks interesting... gonna try it out...

Apparently, the life of a refugee involves a lot of loading.

To give up what one believes in... just sickening. I had to do the first part multiple times because my beliefs threatened the state too many times.

To give up what one believes in... just sickening. I had to do the first part multiple times because my beliefs threatened the state too many times.

Supporting Your Government automatically means you don't think for yourself? how could your Government gain such power unless it's got people who actually believe and think their Government is right?

talk about Extreme!

and the pack in a hurry, talk about unable to click on objects because the room is moving around too much!

as a game... it's not looking so good.

well, made it out of town... but I guess I'm so fat I can't walk between cars or buildings... :p

Hey, I thought we are the UN Online game...


So you basically lose your home, some family members, be pushed out of your home country into a country that doesn't even want you, live in substandard conditions and barely hanging on by a thread?
Sounds pretty like the story of the best computer games.

Nearly all of them do just that. Lose your home and family, be pushed out, substandard conditions, barely hanging on... heck, it's almost the definition of what starts a great game. Some elements happen from high-grade action like Operation Flashpoint to adventure or RPG like Fallout, Dreamfall, and others.

I made it to the sanctuary but we had to leave George behind because he forgot his papers...again.

I made it to the sanctuary but we had to leave George behind because he forgot his papers...again.

but you did carry "Two Left" Phete to the border... right?

I like the Immigration/Refugee ID Game... anyone notice any trend there? :D

Just beat the game.

Only the first part was cool, everything else was educational.

Just beat the game.

Only the first part was cool, everything else was educational.

I dunno... the 'first day of class' was pretty interesting...

but you did carry "Two Left" Phete to the border... right?

I like the Immigration/Refugee ID Game... anyone notice any trend there? :D

Yeah. He had his papers. It didn't work out badly. I felt bad for leaving my family behind.

this game is pretty beast... though i'm having the crap kicked out of me by the interregators

Yeah. He had his papers. It didn't work out badly. I felt bad for leaving my family behind.

... you choose your family?

I choose the neighbors... :(

I like how they try to make the people inspecting your bag at the mall to be wrong.

I've been in stores where I was asked to prove I bought the merchandise I'm walking out with... even when it's in their bags.

and other places ask that I leave my backpack with them... so far, almost everything they shown I've encountered at one time or another... and I am not a refugee...

I like the Immigration/Refugee ID Game... anyone notice any trend there? :D

You want a slightly different challenge?

Here's three examples. Would any of these be given refugee status (under the Convention relating to the Status of Refugees from 1951, of course...) - and if so, which ones?



Example 1: Ms. Kim is a citizen of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. During the course of her university studies in that country, she became increasingly politically aware, and concerned about the lack of freedom in her state. She is convinced that she will never have the opportunity to express her views without risk of repression, nor be in a position to exercise her entrepreneurial abilities.

The acute food crisis in North Korea – described by the World Food Program as “a famine in slow motion” – continues to take its toll, including the recent death from malnutrition of Ms Kim’s only child. In a desperate search for freedom, Ms Kim escaped across the border into China – narrowly avoiding being shot by the Korean border guards. From China she was smuggled in a container ship to Japan, where she now seeks recognition as a refugee.



Example 2: Mr. Abd Al-Sheik is the leader of an opposition political movement in Saudi Arabia. After challenging the absolute monarchy in his country, Al-Sheik was targeted for vicious persecution by the Saudi government. A year ago, he was apprehended, incarcerated, refused access to legal counsel or the courts, and subjected to brutal torture. Fellow activists engineered his escape from prison, and took him to an isolated region of the country where he has been in hiding ever since.

Saudi Arabia does not permit any criticism of the state. No political organizations are allowed. Even trade unions and independent bar associations are not allowed. Any challenge to official policy invariably results in retaliatory action.



Example 3: Mr. Gabi, a gay Romanian, left his country after he was told that he had “brought shame on the university” where he was studying and would therefore not be allowed to become a physical education teacher (as he had planned). His problems arose during his final year of study at the national university, when it became known that he is homosexual. The university’s director called him to the front of a special assembly of students, and condemned him for his “deviance.”

The university has said that it will grant him his physical education degree, but that it will never recommend him for a teaching position on the grounds that as a homosexual, he poses a danger to children. The Romanian Government has changed its laws to de-criminalize consenting homosexual acts between adults in private. But the public’s attitude has not changed at all, and no remedy exists for homosexuals who believe they are victims of discrimination.

You want a slightly different challenge?
(snipped) Were those the ones that you got?

The ones I had only those from the Middle East were Refugees while those from other European and Asian countries were not. Oh and all the women in my examples were Refugees also.

if they do mix and match the examples, then that won't be so bad... and I'll just chalk mine up to odds.

and to answer your question...

in my opinion,
Example 1: Yes.
Example 2: no since he did not leave his country. once he did, he can seek asylum. but it also depends on how he challenged the monarchy...
Example 3: no since it's not the Country that's persecuting him but the public's opinion. now if the public refuses to let him leave and the Government does nothing to uphold the decriminalized status of homosexuality... then he can then seek asylum.

Were those the ones that you got?

The ones I had only those from the Middle East were Refugees while those from other European and Asian countries were not. Oh and all the women in my examples were Refugees also.

if they do mix and match the examples, then that won't be so bad... and I'll just chalk mine up to odds.

No, these are different ones not related to the game. They're a bit more difficult, and with a different focus. "Immigrant" won't be an alternative, just if they qualify as a refugee under the convention or not. :)

No, these are different ones not related to the game. They're a bit more difficult, and with a different focus. "Immigrant" won't be an alternative, just if they qualify as a refugee under the convention or not. :)Ahh. I would've liked to see some of those on on the quiz.

I put my answer in my other post. note that it would be my opinion only and for some, like your second example, would depend on a lot of missing information.

At this loading speed, I won't make it out of the country...

Well, I here's my view on it...

1) No, she doesn't qualify. Even if it is an unfree country she's leaving, she's not being persecuted. Also, she doesn't appear to leave the country due to fear of persecution, but rather because of the famine and economic reasons. The fact that she skips by China and goes to Japan, strengthens that view, as is the point that she hasn't actually done anything which would make her fear persecution.

2) No, he doesn't qualify. I agree with you, since he hasn't left the country he falls outside the convention. He hasn't shown that he wants to leave the country, and only when he does that would the international community have a duty under the convention to protect him.

3) Yes, he qualifies. He is being persecuted for his sexuality, as seen when the national university refuses to recommend him for a teaching position and the university’s director publicly condemns him. Since there exists no remedies for homosexuals who believe they are victims of discrimination, the government has failed in their duty to protect him.



And yes of course, a lot of information is missing, so these are by no means absolute or definitive answers. But they illustrate the more difficult questions concerning refugees...

(The ones in the game were very black-or-white, though I'm unsure if the Afghani woman actually qualifies as a refugee on her own... Which is why I thought of this :p)

Well, I here's my view on it... <Snip>Well, if were up to me, I'd say yes to all three. Though No.2 might prefer supplies instead.

I don't see why fleeing enforced ruination and extreme political oppression would be a good reason to turn her away. Or are people fleeing such places under immediate threat of physical harm, just because they were foolish enough to challenge the state, somehow more "refugee-y" than people who were wise enough to try to get away before they open their mouths?

Escaping from the town is a bit hard.

Well, if were up to me, I'd say yes to all three. Though No.2 might prefer supplies instead.

I don't see why fleeing enforced ruination and extreme political oppression would be a good reason to turn her away. Or are people fleeing such places under immediate threat of physical harm, just because they were foolish enough to challenge the state, somehow more "refugee-y" than people who were wise enough to try to get away before they open their mouths?

That's because of the rights that follows by having refugee status. They only apply to people who have a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, and who is outside the country of his/her nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it. (Article 1 of the Convention (http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/o_c_ref.htm))

As long as they don't belong to any of the above-mentioned categories, they don't need the protection of the international community. Well, they might need it, but not as refugees.

The apartment scene was a bit too N. American-centric. I would have found it more fun if it simulated the culture of somewhere like Japan or maybe somewhere really unexpected, like Turkey.

The only thing I found "strange" was the guy's willingness to do overtime--which Americans ARE often willing to do, and which I really do find strange, even though I've always lived here! So basically my cultural paradigm wasn't challenged at all, with that part.

I don't get it. I left my stupid friend behind 3 times, and somehow he kept turning back up only to cause more problems so I'd have to leave him behind again. I mean, how many times to I have to drive off without this guy before he gets the hint?

I don't get it. I left my stupid friend behind 3 times, and somehow he kept turning back up only to cause more problems so I'd have to leave him behind again. I mean, how many times to I have to drive off without this guy before he gets the hint?

??

You leave one friend behind, then some other friend gets injured and you have to decide whether or not to carry him on your back (which will slow you down when you have to dash across the border).

??

You leave one friend behind, then some other friend gets injured and you have to decide whether or not to carry him on your back (which will slow you down when you have to dash across the border).

the beginning. where you have to leave six people behind because the truck can't hold you all.

the choices were
Family
Friends
Neighbors.

so that would put it at 3 times.

Fergi America;13204418']The apartment scene was a bit too N. American-centric. I would have found it more fun if it simulated the culture of somewhere like Japan or maybe somewhere really unexpected, like Turkey.

The only thing I found "strange" was the guy's willingness to do overtime--which Americans ARE often willing to do, and which I really do find strange, even though I've always lived here! So basically my cultural paradigm wasn't challenged at all, with that part.

I agree. each one should've been one aspect of a seperate country. say one where women are expected to be subservant, then one where they eat animals others consider pets, perhaps some with varying religous practices...

"You have a dog? just to warn you, we collect and sacrifice stray to our God, so don't let your pet wander and make sure it has a collar on at all times... otherwise... Bwahaha gets a sacrifice."

Do you consider this strange?
() yes
() no

the beginning. where you have to leave six people behind because the truck can't hold you all.

the choices were
Family
Friends
Neighbors.

so that would put it at 3 times.

True. It's not the same friend each time, though.

True. It's not the same friend each time, though.

Unless he was running along side the truck really, REALLY fast like... :p

I like the school situation. no [native language] classes? like they toss a kid with no functioning knowledge of the language into a normal class...

do they actually do that in other countries?

I like the school situation. no [native language] classes? like they toss a kid with no functioning knowledge of the language into a normal class...

do they actually do that in other countries?

No idea... I'd like to know what those kids are saying when they refuse to be part of your group.

No idea... I'd like to know what those kids are saying when they refuse to be part of your group.

I can make a guess.

I can make a guess.

Just look at the faces to know. :)

Man that was a boring game. They really should've spiced it up some.

Man that was a boring game. They really should've spiced it up some.

I don't think it was designed to give you cheap thrills...

I don't think it was designed to give you cheap thrills...

That's pretty much the only way you're liable to get the target market to take any interest in it, though.

??

You leave one friend behind, then some other friend gets injured and you have to decide whether or not to carry him on your back (which will slow you down when you have to dash across the border).
I left all those jerks behind at the scene where you can choose one of 4-ways to leave the country but 3 of them aren't actually ways out of the country.
If nothing else, I wanted the assurance that there would be no one around my new home stopping by unannounced and to "borrow" all my beer, only to "return" it on my couch the next morning.

I left all those jerks behind at the scene where you can choose one of 4-ways to leave the country but 3 of them aren't actually ways out of the country.

No, you just left half a dozen people behind. You kept some of your friends with you.


If nothing else, I wanted the assurance that there would be no one around my new home stopping by unannounced and to "borrow" all my beer, only to "return" it on my couch the next morning.

Heh. You know you're not going back there?

This game clearly trivializes the plight of refugees with 0s and 1s.

This game clearly trivializes the plight of refugees with 0s and 1s.

I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic or not.

I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic or not.

Well that statement was kind of an inside joke (and of what, is a long story).

In any case, I'm glad that people are trying hard to show what refugees have to go through, but I don't honestly think this is going to have a huge impact.

In any case, I'm glad that people are trying hard to show what refugees have to go through, but I don't honestly think this is going to have a huge impact.

Perhaps not... But it's aimed at children / young teenagers, who may not have had any prior awareness of such situations. So it may have some impact.

It might have some impact, but I still think that the UN should be focusing its time on resolving conflicts and finding out why some of the worst mass killings of all time happened while they weren't doing anything about them.

It might have some impact, but I still think that the UN should be focusing its time on resolving conflicts and finding out why some of the worst mass killings of all time happened while they weren't doing anything about them.

It's also doing that. Just because people at the HCHR make a short "video game" doesn't mean they're not working on other things. I have a friend who worked for the UN HCHR for a short while (mainly doing paperwork); it's a big organisation, with lots going on.

That's because of the rights that follows by having refugee status. So people only deserve to be treated as human beings, if they're in immediate danger of getting murdered?(Article 1 of the Convention (http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/o_c_ref.htm))I think you fell victim to some poor wording on my part. It's not that I don't already know this, it's that I think it is absurd and insane. And no, I'm not holding you personally responsible for this sad state of affairs.

That's pretty much the only way you're liable to get the target market to take any interest in it, though.
They just need to get some schools to use it, and let them introduce it to the students.
It might have some impact, but I still think that the UN should be focusing its time on resolving conflicts and finding out why some of the worst mass killings of all time happened while they weren't doing anything about them.
Yep, because the UN is such a small organization that it could not possibly have two things going at the same time. I mean, heaven forbid, even outsourcing the idea to a software company would probably shut down the entire UN for a couple of months...

So people only deserve to be treated as human beings, if they're in immediate danger of getting murdered?
No, only get the extensive rights that refugee status offers. For the others, one should consider giving them permission to stay for humanitarian reasons instead.


I think you fell victim to some poor wording on my part. It's not that I don't already know this, it's that I think it is absurd and insane. And no, I'm not holding you personally responsible for this sad state of affairs.
How do you know that it wasn't my idea to make it so? <.<

*Flees*

*Flees*
*Gives Refugee status to Gravlen* :p

*Gives Refugee status to Gravlen* :p

Yay! :D

Too kind :fluffle:

No, only get the extensive rights that refugee status offers. For the others, one should consider giving them permission to stay for humanitarian reasons instead.Extensive rights? That's ridiculous. A refugee in my country doesn't even have the same rights and privileges I do. and that's even more true of people granted asylum for humanitarian reasons, although unlike refugees, it is up almost exclusively in the hands of the state to determine who ought to be allowed in for "humanitarian" reasons. Which sort of makes it an oxymoron. A state is a monopoly on force. It is nothing but an instrument of oppression. To claim that such an entity can do anything humanitarian is laughable.


How do you know that it wasn't my idea to make it so? <.<

*Flees*My wife isn't a refugee. She wouldn't even have left her country if she hadn't met me. Yet the only reason she was allowed into this country, is because my oh so benign state realized there's a lack of people with her kind of education here, and gave her "dispensation".

Hilariously depressing. I have just about the greatest degree of autonomy anyone can experience on this planet at this point in time, yet had I married a mason, I'd have had to leave my own country to be "allowed" to live with her. Whatever happened to freedom of movement and freedom of association?

At least on here I consented to not explaining what I'd like to do with people who wish to deny their fellow human beings the right to govern themselves ;)

Extensive rights? That's ridiculous.
Not really. Remember, it's compared to other immigrants, not the citizens.

A refugee in my country doesn't even have the same rights and privileges I do. and that's even more true of people granted asylum for humanitarian reasons, although unlike refugees, it is up almost exclusively in the hands of the state to determine who ought to be allowed in for "humanitarian" reasons.
My point, as stated above.


Which sort of makes it an oxymoron. A state is a monopoly on force. It is nothing but an instrument of oppression. To claim that such an entity can do anything humanitarian is laughable.
I'm guessing our views differ on this subject ;)