NationStates Jolt Archive

Filipino girl, 11, hangs herself in despair because family were poor (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=492472&in_page_id=1811)
(if you are picky... AFP (http://www.afp.com/english/news/stories/071108080114.weye6g99.html), Independent (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article3143286.ece), Philippine Daily Inquirer (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/topstories/topstories/view_article.php?article_id=99479), GMA News (http://www.gmanews.tv/story/67775/DSWD-to-probe-girls-poverty-triggered-suicide))

Filled with despair at her poverty-stricken life in a shack, an 11-year-old girl wrote in a diary how she wished for new shoes and jobs for her parents – then slipped a rope around her neck and hanged herself.
...
The tragic case came to light on the day President Gloria Arroyo told a business forum that her economic changes were bearing fruit.

"The common people are now feeling the benefits of a growing economy," she said.
...
And for a shamed little girl who hanged herself with a nylon rope in a shack, government assurances meant nothing.

How sad. Yes, there shouldn't be poverty like this, but I have to say that there must be something horribly wrong, I cannot just pinpoint what it is.

It somehow starkly contrasts with this news:

Japan's Suicide Rate Remains High (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jHtu6vV62dgZwf9L3W_354vJbRmwD8SQ1UVO0)
TOKYO (AP) — Japan's employers should provide mental health services to workers suffering from depression and other illnesses, the government said Friday after reporting that more than 30,000 people killed themselves last year.
Here we have a prosperous nation with relatively well-off people with a high suicide rate, though almost half of the people who committed suicide were unemployed.

Now I am not making connections, I am just posting two seemingly related recent news articles (about suicide). I want to know what NSG thinks.

Despair is probably the common denominator with the two. In one case it's due to poverty, in the other, peer pressure, stress, loss of identity... not sure.

I have come from a poor family(by american standards). The only time I though about suicide was because of teen angst, not because of my poverty.

But I might be able too see a connection. I think its also connected to why there is a lot of crime in poor areas..Because people have nothing left to lose, so they throw all their chips in at once. Violent crime, and suicide are two of the outcomes.

Suicide is a psycho-social phenomenon, related to internal sentences and external influences.

Now I seriously am not trying to make a stereotypic remark, but do Japanese still believe in the concept of honor? Maybe that's why the suicide rate in Japan is so high, is that when you fail, that you no longer have honor, and you bring shame to yourself and family?

Just wondering, sorry if I offended anyone.

What I found to be disconcerting was that the girl wanted these things so badly she had to kill herself. I do not imply that nothing should be done about the poverty that strikes many, but there is something wrong with her. She seems to think that the weight of everything is upon her shoulders.

As for Japan, well, I do not know. Do we have any Japanese here who can enlighten us?

What I found to be disconcerting was that the girl wanted these things so badly she had to kill herself. I do not imply that nothing should be done about the poverty that strikes many, but there is something wrong with her. She seems to think that the weight of everything is upon her shoulders.

Interesting, isn't it? One might wonder about the family dynamics that led to such a situation, although I would argue that this child's response is far from rare. In the US it is fairly common for a child to blame themselves when their parents get divorced, and I see this as acting by the same mechanisms.

As for Japan, well, I do not know. Do we have any Japanese here who can enlighten us?

I believe at least a couple are present, as well as western imports to Japan as well.

Bleh. You used the Mail as a 'source'?

I refuse to read it. Who does it blame exactly? Terrorists or immigrants?

Interesting, isn't it? One might wonder about the family dynamics that led to such a situation, although I would argue that this child's response is far from rare. In the US it is fairly common for a child to blame themselves when their parents get divorced, and I see this as acting by the same mechanisms.
I deem it rare here. BTW, the Philippines does not have divorce, and we have low suicide rates compared to other countries (though the data may be outdated). Suicide because of relationships seem to be more common than suicide due to poverty. Nevertheless, it exposes the state of a lot of people in this country.

I think there's something fundamentally mistaken with our idea of material economy. Physical things are simultaneously a limited resource and a focal point of how we run our world. Why should the primary system by which we make our living (protecting the one thing we know we -do- have) be based on that which we don't have?

With increasing industrialisation, it will eventually be possible to manufacture at a zero cost through mechanical advances. When that point comes, we will have to use a completely new system of trade and commerce, and hopefully with that we'll see an end to the culture of materialism, at least, if not to poverty itself.

Bleh. You used the Mail as a 'source'?

I refuse to read it. Who does it blame exactly? Terrorists or immigrants?
Read the article.

If she had been rich, she would probably have hanged herself for another reason. People always find something to be sad about. :(

If she had been rich, she would probably have hanged herself for another reason. People always find something to be sad about. :(
How true. I don't know what is wrong with folks... :(

I am going to keep your quote. :)

Read the article.

Right after I finish reading Mein Kampf.

I try to stay away from blatant fearmongering and propaganda.

Bleh. You used the Mail as a 'source'?

I refuse to read it. Who does it blame exactly? Terrorists or immigrants?

Neither. It was simply highlight how inferior Johnny Foriegner is to pure blooded, white, Protestant Britons. It didn't say as much, but it's the Mail, it was implied.

Right after I finish reading Mein Kampf.

I try to stay away from blatant fearmongering and propaganda.
How picky.

*throws (http://www.afp.com/english/news/stories/071108080114.weye6g99.html) lots (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article3143286.ece) of (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/topstories/topstories/view_article.php?article_id=99479) articles (http://www.gmanews.tv/story/67775/DSWD-to-probe-girls-poverty-triggered-suicide)*

How picky.

*throws (http://www.afp.com/english/news/stories/071108080114.weye6g99.html) lots (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article3143286.ece) of (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/topstories/topstories/view_article.php?article_id=99479) articles (http://www.gmanews.tv/story/67775/DSWD-to-probe-girls-poverty-triggered-suicide)*

Much better :D

The Mail has a (deserved) reputation for regularly fabricating stuff or performing major spin-jobs to promote their agenda.

*goes off to read articles*

Yay I found a video (http://www.gmanews.tv/largevideo/home/14021/Expert-believes-depression-drove-girl-to-commit-suicide)!

It's in Filipino, by the way. :D

Unemployment tends to make people feel socially rejected. Poverty does one no favors, and if on top of that she was mentally ill already, then suicide is simply a matter of time.

Sad thing to see, I suppose. Then again, when you consider how predictable the cycle is I start to wonder why more people don't do something about it rather than comment on it's emotional value.

Now I seriously am not trying to make a stereotypic remark, but do Japanese still believe in the concept of honor? Maybe that's why the suicide rate in Japan is so high, is that when you fail, that you no longer have honor, and you bring shame to yourself and family?

Just wondering, sorry if I offended anyone.

If anything, I'd call the cultural belief in a strong sense of honour the reason they get so depressed. They use it to ignore the stresses in their life. This used to be important back when our society wasn't advanced enough to give people enough free time, energy, and so on to be able to freely worry about their emotional problems, but it's not important now. It'd be more important for the Japanese to start thinking about their emotional problems.

That's not to say their belief in honour is all bad though. Far from it...once molded sufficiently so it doesn't discriminate against others based on race or what have you, it's a very intriguing and worthwhile tradition to preserve.

Despair and the thought that the world (or at least your immediate surroundings/environment) would be better without you, though always exaggerated by your internal perception of them. The suicidal person needs to realise how ultimately selfish they are being.

Erm depression can have a whole load of factors, and when you get a Milieu of Tragedy going, people start to consider suicide. Loads of things can be responsible.

Despair and the thought that the world (or at least your immediate surroundings/environment) would be better without you, though always exaggerated by your internal perception of them. The suicidal person needs to realise how ultimately selfish they are being.
*nods*
What alot of people don't realize is exactly how many lives are touched by them. One person can affect hundreds of lives without their knowing. even someone poor or someone who believes they are alone.

Despair is probably the common denominator with the two. In one case it's due to poverty, in the other, peer pressure, stress, loss of identity... not sure.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

I don't think it's neccisarily the money, but the desperation felt in both circumstances. That being said, of course financial struggle would be a huge cause of despair & thus depression, and there are statistics to prove that suicide rates are higher in less affluent society.

But, mental illness is common in those who are financially stable as well. I personally have battled mental illness and I have never been below the poverty line, so depression can't be soley linked to finances, but it can be linked to despair or desparation, as you said.

I think all societies need to be much more aware of mental illness and strive to give the best health care and oppertunities to their people.

Despair and the thought that the world (or at least your immediate surroundings/environment) would be better without you, though always exaggerated by your internal perception of them. The suicidal person needs to realise how ultimately selfish they are being.

Umm, no.
Logically, the thought that the world would be better without you is SELFLESS rather than selfish.

Now I seriously am not trying to make a stereotypic remark, but do Japanese still believe in the concept of honor? Maybe that's why the suicide rate in Japan is so high, is that when you fail, that you no longer have honor, and you bring shame to yourself and family?

Just wondering, sorry if I offended anyone.

That's a valid question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_views_of_suicide#Japan

From Wikipedia.

Similarly to China and India, Japanese culture takes a view that, in comparison to European and American cultures, is relatively tolerant of suicide. However, recent events in Japan and some of the highest rates of suicide in the world among younger people have forced the Japanese government to take a more critical view of suicide as a "problem". As in China, suicide is traditionally viewed as a means of maintaining one's honor, perhaps more so - a ritual self-disembowelling known as Seppuku was in common use in Feudal Japan, and while this tradition largely faded out with the demise of the Samurai and the introduction of a western-style society, many young Japanese people of today still perceive suicide as an acceptable means to avoid bringing shame or dishonor upon their family. In the early 21st century, an average of 30,000 Japanese killed themselves every year.

Umm, no.
Logically, the thought that the world would be better without you is SELFLESS rather than selfish.

According to the perception of the person, not when you factor in EVERYONE else who has/is/will be affected by them.

Great analysis here. (http://www.gmanews.tv/story/68149/The-tragic-life-of-Mariannet-Amper-or-why-children-commit-suicide)

Though it is pretty obvious that suicide is caused by a lot of factors, it cannot be denied that in this case, poverty was one of them. Even though we could succeed in the hard task of eliminating poverty, if many other factors still remain, (as in Japan), suicides would still happen.