NationStates Jolt Archive

No, that's not my intention.

I think even racist postings can have a life in a mod-poor forum.

Currently, the mods say 'we are here to protect YOU from racism and stuff'.

While they sometimes allow racism and then I'm starting to ask questions about the purpose of a mod...
Trolls and Flamers can have a life in a mod-poor forum.

Spammers and Cyber'ers can have Life in a Mod-Poor forum.

AS COUNTLESS others have been saying, there are other forums out there that are Mod-Poor. Go ahead and try them out and see how you like it.

No, that's not my intention.

I think even racist postings can have a life in a mod-poor forum.

Currently, the mods say 'we are here to protect YOU from racism and stuff'.

While they sometimes allow racism and then I'm starting to ask questions about the purpose of a mod...

No, you're completely and deliberately misunderstanding the Mods' job. They're here to ensure relative civility and delete or move bad or spammy threads. They let some threads on racism stay because they're full of honest, open debate ON THE TOPIC. The racism threads they delete are the ones that degenerate into flames and trolling and are otherwise breaking the forum's clearly-stated rules.

I swear, I feel like I'm talking to a turnip.

What?!? You said "paid" and then said it again in the same sentence in italics -- how does that change the meaning of the word if you have no other context around it for us to draw from? Mods don't get pain in any way, shape or form.

:eek:Wow! Are mods like super human or something? Do their modly powers make them immune to pain? ;)

I think some modicum of civility should be enforced. But let's not have a bunch of junior hall monitors and whiners either.

I think some modicum of civility should be enforced. But let's not have a bunch of junior hall monitors and whiners either.

The way Edwinasia has been whining about teh modz, you'd think this was some twisted reality where Nazi Germany meets the fucking KGB.

The way Edwinasia has been whining about teh modz, you'd think this was some twisted reality where Nazi Germany meets the fucking KGB.

I'm Ha-Mosad le-Modi'in u-le-Tafkidim Meyuchadim. :)

Isn't this whole thread a contradiction? Edwinasia wants a forum "respecting total freedom of speech" and yet has been arguing against letting racist views be discussed.

Is that not unfree speech, aka censored speech?
Not in his view, no, because he said "free speech as long as it doesn't say anything clearly illegal" (like child porn) and insists that "racism is illegal."

*shrug*

No, that's not my intention.

I think even racist postings can have a life in a mod-poor forum.

Currently, the mods say 'we are here to protect YOU from racism and stuff'.

While they sometimes allow racism and then I'm starting to ask questions about the purpose of a mod...
*double take*

That is most certainly not what you have been saying.

Quoth you:
And I agree that some stuff still need to be moderated:

* deleting unlawful stuff
* preventing system hacks
* commercial spam
There are good reasons to have a moderated section:

• It prevent flames
• They kick out spam
• They delete illegal or unlawful things (such as promoting child porn or racism)
• …

And that’s all good.

In my opinion in a moderator-poor channel, these entire things should continue.
(bold mine)

You might want to make up your mind.

Not in his view, no, because he said "free speech as long as it doesn't say anything clearly illegal" (like child porn) and insists that "racism is illegal."

*shrug*


*double take*

That is most certainly not what you have been saying.

Quoth you:


(bold mine)

You might want to make up your mind.


If it is fighting the law, then we don't have a chance isn't?

If it is fighting the law, then we don't have a chance isn't?

What?

What?

Things like:

Promoting child porn.
Promoting child prostitution.
Shouting racist lines.
...

If jolt was located in Germany then it would be unlawful to deny the holocaust.

Things like:

Promoting porn child.
Promoting child prostitution.
Shouting racist lines.
...
No, I meant "What?" as in "I don't understand that sentence".

But I'm going to guess that you mean that one has to ban illegal things because one would not have a chance against the police. Correct?

Which, really, doesn't address my post and the problem in your argumentation at all.


See here:

1) You say your non or little moderated free speech forum would still ban illegal things.

2) You insist that racism is illegal. Which it isn't, but okay, in your own world view it is so banning it from your free speech forum is the logical thing to do.
(In the real world, however, it would very much curtail free speech. In fact, it would curtail it much more than this forum right here which you find so oppressive and un-free-speech-like. But nevermind that now).

3) You say that "even racist postings can have a life in a mod-poor forum".


You do see that 3) isn't possible with 1) and 2), right?

Hence the "make up your mind".

No, I meant "What?" as in "I don't understand that sentence".

But I'm going to guess that you mean that one has to ban illegal things because one would not have a chance against the police. Correct?

Which, really, doesn't address my post and the problem in your argumentation at all.


See here:

1) You say your non or little moderated free speech forum would still ban illegal things.

2) You insist that racism is illegal. Which it isn't, but okay, in your own world view it is so banning it from your free speech forum is the logical thing to do.
(In the real world, however, it would very much curtail free speech. In fact, it would curtail it much more than this forum right here which you find so oppressive and un-free-speech-like. But nevermind that now).

3) You say that "even racist postings can have a life in a mod-poor forum".


You do see that 3) isn't possible with 1) and 2), right?

Hence the "make up your mind".


Well in MY country racism is illegal and so is it in most European countries.

One political party, Vlaams Belang, was convicted for shouting racist words and drawing racist cartoons...

I don't get it why you think that racism is legal?????

Sure you can talk ABOUT racism, but not perform racism in public.

Where do you live, anyway?

I already said before, that we can't allow unlawful stuff. Nor here, nor in a mod-poor board.

Well in MY country racism is illegal and so is it in most European countries.

One political party, Vlaams Belang, was convicted for shouting racist words and drawing racist cartoons...

I don't get it why you think that racism is legal?????

Sure you can talk ABOUT racism, but not perform racism in public.

Where do you live, anyway?

I already said before, that we can't allow unlawful stuff. Nor here, nor in a mod-poor board.

so how can you allow people to talk about racism, yet block out racism on a board that is "Respecting TOTAL FREEDOM of SPEECH"?

The more I read this thread. the more I'm convinced that you don't want a Mod Free, Totally Free Speech area but one where YOU control what is said.

Well in MY country racism is illegal and so is it in most European countries.

One political party, Vlaams Belang, was convicted for shouting racist words and drawing racist cartoons...

I don't get it why you think that racism is legal?????

Sure you can talk ABOUT racism, but not perform racism in public.
:headbang:

Have you, I don't know, READ any of the posts in this thread that are not by you?

Where do you live, anyway?
Germany. You know, the country where holocaust denial is illegal? And yet, incredibly, being racist is legal. Even in public. Imagine that! :eek:

I already said before, that we can't allow unlawful stuff. Nor here, nor in a mod-poor board. I know. I just quoted you saying it. *exasperated*
Which reminds me - whatever happened to actually answering my post? You know, that pesky thing about you contradicting yourself?

I once saw a forum with "Free speech" (An ISP's board that had no moderators whatsoever.)

It quickly degernated into massive trollings, Leftwing and Rightwing nutjobs, scams, spams, End of the world fanatics, I'm going to **** kill you posts, and worse
(Ironicly most of these posters were the +30 crowd)

How can you say that racism isn't obscene?
How can you say that racism is legal?
Do you really think that racism isn't threating the other races?
And isn't racism malicious?
And defamatory?
Most of the times it's even spam. It's just a guy who's poking a bold statement and then leaves without commenting anything in such threads...*


So it's fighting not one point, but all of them!

Did you not even READ what I wrote? I said if the racist post were any or all those things, it was worthy of being deleted. However, it IS possible to discuss racism, even to admit to having prejudice and being a racist WITHOUT crossing any of those lines.

Jolt is located in UK, racism isn't legal in UK, so why are those mods putting themselves above UK law?

The discussion of racism is not illegal. As to racism being illegal, I would venture the guess that it is not illegal to hold racist viewpoints, but it is illegal to act on them.

In my poll options, in not one, you had to make a fool of yourself.


Don't be ridiculous. Go back and read your own poll answers again, but try to put yourself in my position while doing so. Find an answer that I would not find objectionable and explain it to me, because I have quite thoroughly missed it.

And paid isn't the same as paid.

What on earth does that mean? Please define your terms here.

* This f*cking racist replied 2 times in his OWN thread of #210 posting and let us have a look at his smart words of wisdom:

"And just because Nazi Germany was wrong on some things doesn't mean it was wrong on everything. For example Hitler may have stupidly invaded Russia, but he also bet on Volkswagen, and that turned out to be a smashing hit."

Nazi German was wrong in some little innie minnie things, but Volkswagen was a hit!!! :p And a Jew is stating this? Come one, get real!

Yes, Nazi Germany was wrong on some things. Hitler did many things wrong. Does that prove that they were wrong on EVERYTHING? Does that mean that the Volkswagen was NOT a hit? What exactly is the problem here? Sorry, but using this to prove someone racist (other than yourself and your obvious prejudice against Nazis) is not particularly effective. And what difference does it make that the person who obviously likes Volkswagens is Jewish?


"Can any race produce as many geniuses per capita as the Jews?

Statistical probability is the important thing, from which we can make predictions and valid generalizations."


This guy, Trilateral Commission (who has no nation...), was not banned by the current moderators, while he was just provocating by releasing unlawful racist words.

I was banned 'cause I called all racists cockroaches! :)


Again, the quotes in question are NOT actionable. He was expressing an opinion. It is not necessarily a popular opinion, but he didn't call anyone names while doing so. You, by your own admission, did, hence you were banned.

Can any race produce as many geniuses per capita as the Jews? If your answer is "Yes, and here is my proof" then good for you! If your answer is "Yes, and you are a cockroach" then you get banned. Pretty simple equation, I think.

Frankly, the whole "statistical probability and generalization" thing would make me ask the guy for sources, which should be fairly easy to refute. So while I too might think him racist, we would be having a discussion that is not at all against the rules here, and as such no mod would feel the need to ban or delete either of us.

Wahaha! Ok! Go to a police station or a school or make sure you're on TV and just say "Whites are the superior race and blacks are not only ugly but man so dumb..."

Wahaha! Poor soul, I want to hear you moaning "I'm not discriminating, I'm just a racist"

And please, don't misuse my source.

And if you did, everyone would say "That person is a racist." You would not be arrested for simply stating your opinion.

If you refused to hire someone, or to rent a room to them, or to sell them something, or you were to beat them up because they were of a different race, you would be arrested.

THAT is what your source said. Discrimination in this context is the ACT of discriminating against someone based on race. It has nothing to do with admitting on television that you hold racist views.

Oh and btw how do we measure that Jews are smarter anyway?

And did you know that they score lower on IQ Test as Belgians ? 94 vs. 100

OK, so you are prejudiced against Jews, is this what you are trying to tell us here? That is terribly unfortunate, and I think it sad that you are a racist.

I don't imagine anyone is going to suggest you are banned for this post, however.

No, that's not my intention.

I think even racist postings can have a life in a mod-poor forum.

Currently, the mods say 'we are here to protect YOU from racism and stuff'.

While they sometimes allow racism and then I'm starting to ask questions about the purpose of a mod...

I've never heard a mod say they were here to protect me from racism. They HAVE clearly said that they intend to keep the discussion civil, to not allow people to behave rudely, to prevent name calling and threats, to stop illegal activities... and in fact I have witnessed them doing all those things and doing them quite well, which is one of the reasons I hang around here.

So when you are asking your questions, perhaps the reason you don't like the answers is that you are assuming the wrong questions in the first place.

The rules of this board are fairly clearly posted. The mods enforce those rules. That is the purpose of a mod.

I was banned 'cause I called all racists cockroaches! :)WRONG!!!

You were banned for REPEATEDLY TROLLING (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13176593&postcount=140)!!!

Emphasis mine...
I never thought I'd have to ban someone for trolling racists, but here goes. Since trolling is a repeated offense for you, have a five-day vacation from this forum.

Learn to use the facts you very correctly wish to cite, without adding the trolling. Seriously.

The Atlantian Islands, I highly recommend that you discontinue that sort of response to other posters, or you'll be looking at a ban too.

Put certain people on your Ignore list if that's what's needed.

NationStates Forum Moderator
HotRodia

So according some of you racism is only a violation when it’s correlated with discrimination.

While I said several times, it is not the case in Belgium and most European countries, I did some homework.

That’s what I found about racism laws in UK:

Three Arsenal season ticket holders have instructed human rights lawyers to bring a legal challenge against their own club over what they allege is racist chanting in the new Emirates Stadium.

Source:
http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/news/article3146389.ece

Encouraging others to be racist known as ‘inciting racial hatred’ is also a criminal offence.
Racist things in newspapers or on TV, radio or the internet break media codes of practice. If you believe you have seen anything racist – in an advert or a story or something similar – you can make a complaint to the Press Complaints Commission at www.pcc.org.uk or the Office of Communications at www.ofcom.org.uk

Source:
http://www.childline.org.uk/pdfs/info-racism.pdf

So, I’m wondering why so many people are just talking sh*t, claiming they are the expert in something, know nothing, but oh man, like to bash people…

So, THAT particular guy, Trilateral Commission was doing clear racism when he wrote “I say this should be attributed to a combination of innate genetic tendency toward intelligence among Jews”

HE claimed that Jews are genetic superior. HE didn’t wrote something as ‘According some people this should be attributed to a combination….’

Now, dear mods, or YOU delete the http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=542000 posting, or I send the link to www.pcc.org.uk.

And you can delete or kill me but then make sure not to allow one single illegal posting ever.

I have enough of it.

I reported the particular posting from the early beginning, you did nothing with it, you even allowed that people were bashing me, 'cause I found it sick ridiculous racism.

I complained several times about it. Ok, let’s see what a higher authority is thinking about the issue.

So according some of you racism is only a violation when it’s correlated with discrimination.
That's what the law looks like, yes.

While I said several times, it is not the case in Belgium and most European countries,
Belgium and some European countries =/= the UK

That’s what I found about racism laws in UK:

Three Arsenal season ticket holders have instructed human rights lawyers to bring a legal challenge against their own club over what they allege is racist chanting in the new Emirates Stadium.

Source:
http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/news/article3146389.ece
So? Three Arsenal season ticket holders are no more qualified to judge what is and isn't illegal then you or I.

Encouraging others to be racist known as ‘inciting racial hatred’ is also a criminal offence.
Racist things in newspapers or on TV, radio or the internet break media codes of practice. If you believe you have seen anything racist – in an advert or a story or something similar – you can make a complaint to the Press Complaints Commission at www.pcc.org.uk or the Office of Communications at www.ofcom.org.uk

Source:
http://www.childline.org.uk/pdfs/info-racism.pdf
Are media codes of practice actually enforced by law? And even if they are, jolt hosts game servers. They're not a media company.

So, THAT particular guy, Trilateral Commission was doing clear racism when he wrote “I say this should be attributed to a combination of innate genetic tendency toward intelligence among Jews”

HE claimed that Jews are genetic superior. HE didn’t wrote something as ‘According some people this should be attributed to a combination….’
Which is not inciting racial hatred. You think he broke the law? Which law exactly did he break?

Now, dear mods, or YOU delete the http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=542000 posting, or I send the link to www.pcc.org.uk.
Are you threatening the mods? Oh that's going to go down well.
Oh, and incidentally:
The Press Complaints Commission is charged with enforcing the following Code of Practice which was framed by the newspaper and periodical industry and was ratified by the PCC on 01 August 2007.
The PCC don't seem to have the backing of law. Oh dear, guess it doesn't make a difference whether you send them the link or not. And even if they did, jolt isn't a media company.

Oh my, it seems I've just rendered your threat useless. How clumsy of me. I'm terribly sorry to foil your attempts at blackmail.
And you can delete
Indeed they can, but they won't unless you persist in rulebreaking.
or kill me
Wait, what?
but then make sure not to allow one single illegal posting ever.
They generally don't, but they're only human.

I have enough of it.

So leave.

Don't be ridiculous coward.

You said by yourself it was racism.

You're turning like the wind.

Remember these goodies:

But you're still right, that is a pretty racist view. So? Can you find somehwere in the rules that says that one can't put forward a racist view, even if one does it civilly?

Source:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13209254&postcount=198

Or...



Quote:
First you fight, silly, the racism in that specific thread.

Then you admit it is about racism.

What? Am I not allowed to change my mind?

Source:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13209292&postcount=200

And now you say...

Which is not inciting racial hatred. You think he broke the law? Which law exactly did he break?

Your opinion is uhmm... :)



That's what the law looks like, yes.


Belgium and some European countries =/= the UK


So? Three Arsenal season ticket holders are no more qualified to judge what is and isn't illegal then you or I.


Are media codes of practice actually enforced by law?


Which is not inciting racial hatred. You think he broke the law? Which law exactly did he break?


Are you threatening the mods? Oh that's going to go down well.
Oh, and incidentally:

The PCC don't seem to have the backing of law. Oh dear, guess it doesn't make a difference whether you send them the link or not.

Oh my, it seems I've just rendered your threat useless. How clumsy of me. I'm terribly sorry to foil your attempts at blackmail.

Indeed they can, but they won't unless you persist in rulebreaking.

Wait, what?

They generally don't, but they're only human.



So leave.

Don't be ridiculous coward.

You said by yourself it was racism.

You're turning like the wind.

It was racism. What law is broken by saying that the Jews are genetically superior?

It was racism. What law is broken by saying that the Jews are genetically superior?

Eh? Ah it's back racism?

Are you sure 'cause a few minutes ago it was not inciting racial hatred....

Eh? Ah it's back racism?

Are you sure 'cause a few minutes ago it was not inciting racial hatred....

Inciting racial hatred is not racism. The two are obviously linked, but they are not the same thing.

What law is broken by saying the Jews are genetically superior? If you're so sure it's illegal to do so, point me to the relevant law.

It was racism. What law is broken by saying that the Jews are genetically superior?

What law is broken by saying the Jews are genetically superior? If you're so sure it's illegal to do so, point me to the relevant law.

I believe there are PLENTY of laws that make anti-semetism illegal. Is this what we might called "semite-phile"?

HE claimed that Jews are genetic superior. HE didn’t wrote something as ‘According some people this should be attributed to a combination….’

No he didn't. He claimed that they were genetically predisposed to intelligence, some people are genetically predisposed to be strong and others are predisposed to be healthy and disease resistant. Who's to say which one of these makes a person "genetically superior" to another, personally I don't think it's you.