NationStates Jolt Archive

Out-of-Body experiences are performed between your ears


A team of Belgian scientists have linked the sense of disembodiment central to the experience -- the feeling of leaving one's body and then floating outside it -- to abnormal activity in a specific region of the brain.

This activity appears to short-circuit the processing of sensory information and the ability to locate oneself in time and space, the team said.

"Self-perception is nothing else but a creation of your brain," explained study lead author and neurosurgeon Dr. Dirk De Ridder, of the neurosurgical department at Antwerp University. "We found a key spot in the brain in which different areas are normally activated whenever stimulus comes in, so you can relate that stimulus to yourself, which helps create a unified perception of ourselves."

Sources:
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=84921
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/01/health/webmd/main3439659.shtml
http://health.msn.com/healthnews/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100173484


It seems there’s again less room for gods.

...except it doesn't actually say that anywhere, at any point. God is as irrelevant to this discovery as the inflation rate in Guam or the phases of the moon. What it does say is that changes in the brain can create a feeling of disassociation with the body, which is part of the experience noted in most OBE cases. The entire phenomenon is still far from explained or understood, especially the parts that go above and beyond the displacement from the body.

Understanding said phenomena does not make them any less important...in fact, it should catalyze further investigation in to the matter because there is now something to work with rather than just a bunch of loose ends and anecdotal accounts. It would be interesting to see if the techniques that are suggested to produce OBEs correlate to the physical origins of the sensation.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=542460
Was also posted yesterday. Doesn't seem to be a subject that has fired up the denizens of NSG. Perhaps if it had involved cheese it might have gotten a better response. Who knows...

It's not something thats just in the brain; I know this for sure. What I experienced, there's no way it could have just been in my mind.

It's not something thats just in the brain; I know this for sure. What I experienced, there's no way it could have just been in my mind.

Sure. The world is still flat.

Out-of-Body experiences are performed between your ears
Sure, but what triggers them? Is it a biological shutdown process? Does it have something to do with a diminished sense of self? Can it be provoked through non-invasive stimuli?

And where does it come from? Is it just a genetic human trait? Is it disease? Is it some sort of conditioned response?

I mean, we all kinda knew they were psychological anyway, but we haven't really answered any of the interesting questions yet.

Sure, but what triggers them? Is it a biological shutdown process? Does it have something to do with a diminished sense of self? Can it be provoked through non-invasive stimuli?

And where does it come from? Is it just a genetic human trait? Is it disease? Is it some sort of conditioned response?

I mean, we all kinda knew they were psychological anyway, but we haven't really answered any of the interesting questions yet.

I'm kind of wary of that... imagine somebody finds a way to simulate the conditions that cause the mentioned sectors in the brain to overreact/shut down?
I mean look at little Largosnook there, somebody might simulate an experience like that for him and make him believe in just about anything. I have the uneasy feeling that this discovery might eventually lead to more and more people flying planes into skyscrapers and blowing themselves up for little Saudis with kidney failure...

It's not something thats just in the brain; I know this for sure. What I experienced, there's no way it could have just been in my mind.

I'm sure you know much more about the working of the human brain than a team of scientists.

the first out of body experience for us all is the moment of our birth.

the birth can't be denied.

humans and animals get out of a body and experience life, till :sniper:

My brain: My greatest ally and worst enemy all rolled up in on one. :p

the first out of body experience for us all is the moment of our birth.

the birth can't be denied.
You clearly have a strange idea of what an OOBE actually is.

humans and animals get out of a body and experience life, till :sniper:
Elaboration is your friend. Capital letters are also your friends.
My brain: My greatest ally and worst enemy all rolled up in on one. :p

This (http://www.cs.princeton.edu/gfx/proj/sugcon/models/brain.png) is LG's brain. This (http://k-punk.abstractdynamics.org/archives/apocalypse1.jpg) is LG's brain on drugs.

Doesn't seem to be a subject that has fired up the denizens of NSG. Perhaps if it had involved cheese it might have gotten a better response. Who knows...

Put Fass in the title somewhere. There's sure to be a discussion of sorts to follow.
http://www.sciammind.com/article.cfm?articleID=434D7C62-E7F2-99DF-37CC9814533B90D7
Mystical Misfirings
Scientists and scholars have long speculated that religious feeling can be tied to a specific place in the brain. In 1892 textbooks on mental illness noted a link between “religious emotionalism” and epilepsy. Nearly a century later, in 1975, neurologist Norman Geschwind of the Boston Veterans Administration Hospital first clinically described a form of epilepsy in which seizures originate as electrical misfirings within the temporal lobes, large sections of the brain that sit over the ears. Epileptics who have this form of the disorder often report intense religious experiences, leading Geschwind and others, such as neuropsychiatrist David Bear of Vanderbilt University, to speculate that localized electrical storms in the brain’s temporal lobe might sometimes underlie an obsession with religious or moral issues.

Exploring this hypothesis, neuroscientist Vilayanur S. Ramachandran of the University of California, San Diego, asked several of his patients who have temporal lobe epilepsy to listen to a mixture of religious, sexual and neutral words while he tested the intensity of their emotional reactions using a measure of arousal called the galvanic skin response, a fluctuation in the electrical resistance of the skin. In 1998 he reported in his book Phantoms in the Brain (William Morrow), co-authored with journalist Sandra Blakeslee, that the religious words, such as “God,” elicited an unusually large emotional response in these patients, indicating that people with temporal lobe epilepsy may indeed have a greater propensity toward religious feeling.

The key, Ramachandran speculates, may be the limbic system, which comprises interior regions of the brain that govern emotion and emotional memory, such as the amygdala and hypothalamus. By strengthening the connection between the temporal lobe and these emotional centers, epileptic electrical activity may spark religious feeling.

To seal the case for the temporal lobe’s involvement, Michael Persinger of Laurentian University in Ontario sought to artificially re-create religious feelings by electrically stimulating that large subdivision of the brain. So Persinger created the “God helmet,” which generates weak electromagnetic fields and focuses them on particular regions of the brain’s surface.

In a series of studies conducted over the past several decades, Persinger and his team have trained their device on the temporal lobes of hundreds of people. In doing so, the researchers induced in most of them the experience of a sensed presence—a feeling that someone (or a spirit) is in the room when no one, in fact, is—or of a profound state of cosmic bliss that reveals a universal truth. During the three-minute bursts of stimulation, the affected subjects translated this perception of the divine into their own cultural and religious language—terming it God, Buddha, a benevolent presence or the wonder of the universe.

...

The researchers found six regions that were invigorated only during the nuns’ recall of communion with God. The spiritual memory was accompanied by, for example, increased activity in the caudate nucleus, a small central brain region to which scientists have ascribed a role in learning, memory and, recently, falling in love; the neuroscientists surmise that its involvement may reflect the nuns’ reported feeling of unconditional love. Another hot spot was the insula, a prune-size chunk of tissue tucked within the brain’s outermost layers that monitors body sensations and governs social emotions. Neural sparks there could be related to the visceral pleasurable feelings associated with connections to the divine.

And augmented activity in the inferior parietal lobe, with its role in spatial awareness—paradoxically, the opposite of what Newberg and Davidson witnessed—might mirror the nuns’ feeling of being absorbed into something greater. Either too much or too little activity in this region could, in theory, result in such a phenomenon, some scientists surmise. The remainder of the highlighted regions, the researchers reported in the September 25, 2006, issue of Neuroscience Letters, includes the medial orbitofrontal cortex, which may weigh the pleasantness of an experience; the medial prefrontal cortex, which may help govern conscious awareness of an emotional state; and, finally, the middle of the temporal lobe.

This thread needs a little more DMT (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt.shtml)!

This thread needs a little more DMT (http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt.shtml)!

Might as well dose up a smidge with Anafranil as well.

My brain: My greatest ally and worst enemy all rolled up in on one. :p

In your case it's like when the superhero and super villain are so torqued that the outside observer can't tell who is who.

So Persinger created the “God helmet,” which generates weak electromagnetic fields and focuses them on particular regions of the brain’s surface.

In a series of studies conducted over the past several decades, Persinger and his team have trained their device on the temporal lobes of hundreds of people. In doing so, the researchers induced in most of them the experience of a sensed presence—a feeling that someone (or a spirit) is in the room when no one, in fact, is—or of a profound state of cosmic bliss that reveals a universal truth. During the three-minute bursts of stimulation, the affected subjects translated this perception of the divine into their own cultural and religious language—terming it God, Buddha, a benevolent presence or the wonder of the universe.


When will this be available recreationaly?

When will this be available recreationaly?

I'd give it no more than 5 or 6 years, maybe a little more for testing. The economic potential of these devices is pretty significant and there are a lot of potentially positive benefits from using them. It could mark the transition from just treating the effects of mental illnesses to actually curing them, which would be a very big deal and would make the company who develops it first the leader in the field.

(personally, I'd like to get in on the ground floor of an implantable device that enhances intelligence...get one for myself, of course, but the profits are in selling them to others)

In your case it's like when the superhero and super villain are so torqued that the outside observer can't tell who is who.

Loki dies/lives.

When will this be available recreationaly?

Hmmmm .... n't.
I've got video footage of someone using one, though - quite entertaining.

I think there's some potential for an awful lot of cool shit in responsible hands, whereas in irresponsible hands .... :eek:

the profits are in selling them to others
This .... coming from you? :p

This .... coming from you? :p

Well, I could make profits from selling them to myself, but investors frown on that. Just look at Qwest, Enron, and Global Crossing to see it in action.

Well, I could make profits from selling them to myself, but investors frown on that. Just look at Qwest, Enron, and Global Crossing to see it in action.

They're easy to see ... they've got brand, yo.
Even though you've got it here ... you need to make yourself a little bigger and brawnier.

They're easy to see ... they've got brand, yo.
Even though you've got it here ... you need to make yourself a little bigger and brawnier.

Brawnier...I bet there's another implant I could produce for that! All the muscle and none of the work, unless of course you want to, in which case the implant would just produce even more results. If I can get both of these together, I'm in a prime spot to get some government funding, maybe through DARPA or something like that. We'd be rolling in the money then.