NationStates Jolt Archive

Why is it that some people believe that they're immune from criticism if they say "well, that's just my opinion"?

depends on whether it's an objective opinion or a subjective opinion.

"I think that rose is pretty" is a subjective opinion. It can not by definition be wrong, as it is based entirely on the person. "I think that rose is red" is an objective opinion. It is either true or it is false. An objective opinion can most certainly be wrong. A subjective one, by definition, can not be.

Why is it that some people believe that they're immune from criticism if they say "well, that's just my opinion"?

it's not that they are not saying they're immune to criticisms, but that what they are presenting are not facts.

Opinions are not only based on facts, but personal experience, gossip, and even their own personally drawn conclusions.

But that doesn't make their personally drawn conclusions necessarily right if it conflicts with conclusions based on scientific data...nor any less stupid if the opinion happens to be stupid as well.

Why is it that some people believe that they're immune from criticism if they say "well, that's just my opinion"?
Some people are silly that way, I guess.

Having said that it is valid to use "in my opinion", or some variant thereof, as a sort of disclaimer. I'm thinking of situations where hypotheticals are being discussed, or any number of other places such as most of the threads on NSG, for example. It's valid as long as the opinion that people are putting forward is not one that they are claiming to be the "one true way" or that they are trying to claim as fact.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

it just my opinion...:p but many opinion can be unfounded and uneducated which in turns qualifies them as...dumb. And some also have the potential to be correct but people are uneducated making them loose precedent.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

Well your opinion is wrong!

:p

Well your opinion is wrong!

:p
Fair enough... it's not the first time that's been the case :)

the OP
Can opinions be wrong and/or stupid?
You read NSG, and you need to ask this question?

depends on whether it's an objective opinion or a subjective opinion.

"I think that rose is pretty" is a subjective opinion. It can not by definition be wrong, as it is based entirely on the person. "I think that rose is red" is an objective opinion. It is either true or it is false. An objective opinion can most certainly be wrong. A subjective one, by definition, can not be.
I agree. I would only add that if the person's objective opinion is wrong on the facts it claims to be based on, and if the person belligerently refuses to correct himself but instead tries to claim that he has some right to maintain an opinion based on factual errors, then his opinion becomes stupid as well as wrong.

Likewise, if the person is dishonest about whether his opinion is subjective or objective -- claiming factual bases that simply do not exist. That can qualify an opinion for the "stupid" label as well.

So essentially, an objective opinion can be either right or wrong. Both objective and subjective opinions can be rendered stupid by the actions of the opinion holder.

You read NSG, and you need to ask this question?


I felt I needed to have my opinion heard.

I agree. I would only add that if the person's objective opinion is wrong on the facts it claims to be based on, and if the person belligerently refuses to correct himself but instead tries to claim that he has some right to maintain an opinion based on factual errors, then his opinion becomes stupid as well as wrong.

Likewise, if the person is dishonest about whether his opinion is subjective or objective -- claiming factual bases that simply do not exist. That can qualify an opinion for the "stupid" label as well.

So essentially, an objective opinion can be either right or wrong. Both objective and subjective opinions can be rendered stupid by the actions of the opinion holder.

Fair enough, I agree so I'll do it for you:

/thread

An opinion can be wrong if it's founded upon inaccurate information.

Although it sh ould be noted that a "wrong" opinion in this case doesn't necessarily indicate that the opposite is right. For example:

If I state an opinion that all Nissans are of poor quality due to an article I read that Nissan uses dish soap for engine oil, then my opinion is invalid because it's based upon an erroneous assumption. Nissans may very well be considered to be of poor quality by others, in this example, but not for the reason I cited. This also, by the way, in no way suggests in and of itself that Nissans are of high quality.

Then there are opinions that cannot be evaluated in this way like "Roses are pretty" or "SciFi's Flash Gordon is a miserable failure as a TV show." because they're based purely on personal preference and not on objective information.

I like to say, "I respect your opinion, even though it sucks."

Yes they can be stupid and wrong.

Now you can go on about "what is truth?", and if you want to really look at it, then yes, there is no such thing as "truth" and everything is a matter of perception. And I will say I am an individualist, I live it as my principle and think it's total bullshit when people try to tell you what is "normal". But there's a line to draw. Yes, truth is all perception and you have the right to believe anything you want. But if you say something like "Water causes cancer" or "the color blue doesn't exist", you're still a fucking retard.

And you don't have any obligation to respect anyone's opinion. You should as a general rule of common sense accept people for how they are, but you don't have to accept what they think and what they do. You don't have to respect someone's religion if you think it's insane, or anything else.

The "free speech" thing is such an awful circle. Very few people get it.

You have the right to say absolutely anything you want, and the rest of the world has the right to condemn absolutely anything you say.

I don't know what idiot started the myth that your right to speak entitles you to respect.

I respect their right to have an opinion, I should say then.

Freedom of speech, etc,

Edit: Whoah, time warp. Kinda makes you question your existence in the flow of time while surfing the internets, doesn't it?

I like to say, "I respect your opinion, even though it sucks."

I don't.

If I respect an opinion that is stupid, it degrades my respect for my own beliefs.

I actually say all the time: "You're wrong, and I have no respect for your opinion because it sucks."

It can not by definition be wrong

Because even subjective opinions are based on "reasons" of a sort, sure it can. Otherwise it would be impossible to have a coherent argument about, say, whether or not a book (or movie, or song, or band) is good.

We may find that in the end our tastes are simply irreconcilable... or we may see something in the book that we did not see before, or recognize that our opinion of it was colored by prejudice, or come to reject as flawed the subjective standard upon which we based our judgment of the book.

Yes.

An opinion can be both wrong and stupid. Lots of people have the opinion that alchohol will not affect their driving ability. That is wrong and stupid.

An opinion can also be RIGHT and stupid. And, it can be wrong and not stupid. Stupid and wrong are always buddies. That's how things work. No one ever said the universe had to make sense to everyone. But that part is much more complex and deserves a thread all of its own.

When someone who is confronted with a factual argument responds with "that's just my opinion", he is really saying "I hold on to my beliefs even in utter ignorance because that's the way I am." It does not make the opinion any less wrong.

Damn it, I wasted my opportunity to vote both yes and no. :(

depending on the outcome, yeah opinions can be wrong.
but everyone has an opinion, when you stop and think about it, most things are subjective and derived from a like/dislike, some visceral response and certainly not empirical. how many people do their homework and offer a balanced opinion? not many, which is why they are opining.
no opinion is tupid. everyone is entitled to their thoughts and expression of those thoughts. it irks me when someone implies that your opinion is the equival of blowing smoke up etc. that is another opinion that strikes the first opinion down, because the person didn't like the opinion. how contradictory is that? personally opinions are good, in fact i would say they are great!

Yes, because people are inherently stupid.

For instance, scientists believed the Earth was flat, the atom was the smallest, Pluto was the most distant, etc.

People's opinions are stupid when they place value judgments on other opinions based on their own self-perceived "intelligence."

In reality, all opinions are of value if only to cause you to examine and reinforce your own perception.

For instance, a doctor told me 14 years ago that I could never have kids, based on a genetic defect in my production plant. I should adopt. His opinion was right at that moment, and stupid. What he should have said was, "based on my limited knowledge, my tunnel vision, and my inability to view the possibility of technological advance, adoption would be the quickest path of least resistance to solve your dilemma. He took scientific data available at a fixed point in time, and made a factual statement."

Of course, he had an advanced degree, so there is no chance he was stupid, correct?

It worked out for me, as I married, adopted her son, and have lived happily for 10+ years, but I use this as a demonstration of how a little perceived knowledge, and a ton of arrogance, can cause someone to believe that other people have "stupid" opinions.

So, my actual answer is "yes/no." Opinions are stupid when not informed and logical, but also stupid when someone believes that, based on information and logic, they are unquestionably correct.

depends on whether it's an objective opinion or a subjective opinion.

"I think that rose is pretty" is a subjective opinion. It can not by definition be wrong, as it is based entirely on the person. "I think that rose is red" is an objective opinion. It is either true or it is false. An objective opinion can most certainly be wrong. A subjective one, by definition, can not be.

suppose they were lying when they said "i think that rose is pretty" - wouldn't that make the subjective opinion false?

Why is it that some people believe that they're immune from criticism if they say "well, that's just my opinion"?

i would assume its because they heard something like that somewhere and haven't thought it through any further. in my experience, an amazing amount of strange beliefs and behaviors fit this model.

self-sustain, how was the doctor stupid? He listed a good alternative and made a pretty accurate prediction...

no opinion is [s]tupid.

i disagree. and based on your premise that no opinion is stupid, then my opinion that some opinions are stupid is not stupid. hmmm, we seem to be running into a slight difficulty here...

it's not that they are not saying they're immune to criticisms, but that what they are presenting are not facts.

Opinions are not only based on facts, but personal experience, gossip, and even their own personally drawn conclusions.

Sure they are. The word "opinion" seems to have bad connotation, but it's really just a, "belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge." As such, they can't really be "wrong," although the facts they present can often be wrong.

As such, they can't really be "wrong"...

why not?

You read NSG, and you need to ask this question?Remember, no stupid questions, only ...
Some people seem to think the best cure for being wrong is being more wrong.
:)

they can be ignorant, uninformed, based on arbitrary or inaccurate data, and often are.

the opinion disclaimer is merely meant to say "don't take what i say as holy writ. i may or may not have the slightest idea what i'm talking about, but based on what i know, or think i do, this is how i feel".

it is NOT a weasiling out of responsibility for those feelings or what they might otherwise imply.

i also liked having the option to click BOTH yes AND no on this one. and i DID.

=^^=
.../\...

I am sure a noted Russian American philosopher would be able to tell us. Where is David Duchovny when you need him....

it just my opinion...:p but many opinion can be unfounded and uneducated which in turns qualifies them as...dumb. And some also have the potential to be correct but people are uneducated making them loose precedent.

It amuses me that you misuse the word 'loose' in a post about things being dumb.

Can opinions be wrong and/or stupid?


Of course not...

depends on whether it's an objective opinion or a subjective opinion.


Opinion, from latin opinari :

opinabilis -e [conjectural].
opinatio -onis f. [supposition , conjecture].
opinator -oris m. [one who supposes or conjectures].
opinatus (1) -a -um partic. from opinor; q.v.
opinatus (2) -us m. [conjecture , supposition].
opinio -onis f. [opinion , conjecture, supposition; repute, rumor, report].
opiniosus -a -um [set in opinion].
opinor -ari dep. and opino -are , [to be of opinion, suppose, conjecture]. Partic. opinatus -a -um, in pass. sense, [supposed, fancied].

http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookup.pl?stem=opin&ending=are


Main Entry: opin·ion
Pronunciation: \ə-ˈpin-yən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin opinion-, opinio, from opinari
Date: 14th century
1 a: a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b: approval, esteem
2 a: belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b: a generally held view
3 a: a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b: the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based

hence, opinions are necessarily subjective.

I don't.
I actually say all the time: "You're wrong, and I have no respect for your opinion because it sucks."

I often find myself saying this to hippies.

hence, opinions are necessarily subjective.

only in the sense that all statements made by subjects are subjective

only in the sense that all statements made by subjects are subjective

Heh which means of course that all statements made by objects are objective?

Because even subjective opinions are based on "reasons" of a sort, sure it can. Otherwise it would be impossible to have a coherent argument about, say, whether or not a book (or movie, or song, or band) is good.

We may find that in the end our tastes are simply irreconcilable... or we may see something in the book that we did not see before, or recognize that our opinion of it was colored by prejudice, or come to reject as flawed the subjective standard upon which we based our judgment of the book.

So if a person thought for instance Master of Disguise wasn't funny, and someone else thought it was, are you suggesting that it's possible that one of them is right and the other is wrong? I'd say that they were both right (even though it is a god-awful movie) because humor is subjective.

Sure, you can say that someone's objective opinion is wrong, but that doesn't make it so.

So if a person thought for instance Master of Disguise wasn't funny, and someone else thought it was, are you suggesting that it's possible that one of them is right and the other is wrong?

it might be. depends on what the reasons given are.

suppose they were lying when they said "i think that rose is pretty" - wouldn't that make the subjective opinion false?

In fact, no. It would make the STATEMENT false, but the opinion (which was not stated) would still be that the person did not think that the rose was pretty.

You do not have to state an opinion to have one, and simply misstating a subjective opinion does not invalidate the opinion itself.

Can opinions be wrong and/or stupid?


Of course not...
That is your opinion, and it is both stupid and wrong.

















well, someone had to say it. :D