NationStates Jolt Archive

The man may produce the sperm, but he has no part in the creation of the baby, so I say "no".

Do you agree? If you don't agree, you're like, wrong.

The man may produce the sperm, but he has no part in the creation of the baby, so I say "no".

Do you agree? If you don't agree, you're like, wrong.

Genetically, the man would be the father.
Practically.. well, not unless he raised it afterwards, but who raises babies when ye can eat 'em?

Do you agree? If you don't agree, you're like, wrong.

The proper term is Incorrect Thought.

It depends. If a couple is incapable of conceiving normally and must use IVF, then the couple stays together and raises the children together, the sperm donor is the father.

If it's some anonymous donor then no, he's the biological father, but that's it. But then I'd say the same if two people had sex, the woman got knocked up, never heard from the guy and carried to term.

He's still the biological father, he just didn't get to enjoy the process as much as normal.

Unless he's really good at masturbating, and lets face it, no matter how much we practice we never really get that good at it....

Whoa - misread the title. Thought you said "feathers", and this was gonna be a dinosaur-human cloning thread.

Actually, Ruffy, you already know this stuff!

I think Ruffy is going through an identity crisis.
No matter how hard his mother and father tried to hide that test tube, he still found it in the closet, next to 20% of the GOP members and the Christmas presents.

Well are we discussing fatherhood in a biological or social sense? Because biologically yes, a male contributed his DNA. Socially, in my mind the father is which ever male (if any) helps raise the children in that position of 'father'.

Traditionally my people could care less who the sperm donor was. The children belonged to the mother. The father was whomever was with the mother.

So romance the test tube Ruffy. Romance it hard.

Is the test tube required to pay child support? Those irresponsible test tubes get away with everything.

Is the test tube required to pay child support? Those irresponsible test tubes get away with everything.

No, but turkey basters are.

No mother, no father... but at least test tube babies have a womb with a view!!


IN seriousness... yes they are the father... not the dad. A father and a dad are two different things.

They are the "biological fauther"tes ... but whoever raises the kid is the real father if that makes any sense.

They are the "biological fauther"tes ... but whoever raises the kid is the real father if that makes any sense.

Yes, that seems to be the consensus.

The biological definition of a father is clear and not debatable.

In terms of everything else. I think the father is the person who sticks by the kid and raises it. And I don't think that a person who wants to donate their sperm to a lab has any more right to their biological kid than does any stranger in the world.

The man may produce the sperm, but he has no part in the creation of the baby, so I say "no".

Do you agree? If you don't agree, you're like, wrong.

He had no part in the creation of the baby? It's his sperm... Therefore he is the "father" of the baby... Since the baby is a production of the combination of the ovum and a sperm cell...

Biologically yes. Do they pass on their genes? Yes. That's it. As far as bio dad versus adoption dad. Very complicated. It would have to be on a case by case level. No way you can cover it all in one broad swoop. Even on case by case.. one can be made to look better 'on paper' than the other. When the other is more loving. Too freakin complicated. Sad.

I didn't vote cause sperm donation does not equal 'father. 'Father means more than a sperm donor. But yeah biologically .. kin.

They are immoral SOBs that should be shot.

They are immoral SOBs that should be shot.

Test tube babies?
The sperm donors?
Homosexuals?

Coming from you, you might mean anything...

They are immoral SOBs that should be shot.

" Anyone who lip-synchs in public on stage when you pay 75 pounds [US $134] to see them should be shot. "

Doesn't really have anything to do with this topic.. But your statement reminded me of it. And I like it!.

So romance the test tube Ruffy. Romance it hard.
http://www.gearsandwidgets.com/external/wherethisthreadgoing.jpg

They are immoral SOBs that should be shot.

I think I love you.

I think I love you.

So what are you so afraid of?

The man may produce the sperm, but he has no part in the creation of the baby, so I say "no".

Do you agree? If you don't agree, you're like, wrong.

Define "Father".

In biological terms, your argument makes no more sense than arguing that naturally conceived male DNA doners are not "fathers" in that they did not gestate. After all, the male part of "creation" ends at orgasm - which must have occured both in natural conception and in invitro fertilization.

In societal terms, fatherhood occurs by being a male parental figure to a child. Speaking as someone who has one adopted child and one natural one, I take exception to anyone implying that I am more or less a father to either of my children.

Call me "wrong" all you like, however I don't feel compelled to take your opinion on this as gospel.

Define "Father".

In biological terms, your argument makes no more sense than arguing that naturally conceived male DNA doners are not "fathers" in that they did not gestate. After all, the male part of "creation" ends at orgasm - which must have occured both in natural conception and in invitro fertilization.

In societal terms, fatherhood occurs by being a male parental figure to a child. Speaking as someone who has one adopted child and one natural one, I take exception to anyone implying that I am more or less a father to either of my children.

Call me "wrong" all you like, however I don't feel compelled to take your opinion on this as gospel.

A father in the sense that they were there for the conception and/or part of creation.

Sure, they ejaculated, but the doner isn't the father.

So what are you so afraid of?

:gundge:

A father in the sense that they were there for the conception and/or part of creation.

Sure, they ejaculated, but the doner isn't the father.

What if they dropped the sperm into the 'tube'?

What if they dropped the sperm into the 'tube'?

I'd think of the doctor as the father, more than the doner.

:gundge:

You don't like it rough?

Of course he has part in the creation of the baby! I'm not saying it's the kid's "daddy" or anything, but he's the biological father.

:gundge:

Ah well, i hadn't seen it on the whole net all day. It was quota time.

The man may produce the sperm, but he has no part in the creation of the baby, so I say "no".

Do you agree? If you don't agree, you're like, wrong.

Now here's a question. If you found the child which you knew was created from your donated sperm and knew he/she was yours would you treat him/her like your son/daughter?

Now here's a question. If you found the child which you knew was created from your donated sperm and knew he/she was yours would you treat him/her like your son/daughter?

If he/she was very wealthy and generous.

A father in the sense that they were there for the conception and/or part of creation.

Sure, they ejaculated, but the doner isn't the father.

Your statement makes no sense.

Location matters to the definition? Why?

If I masterbate into a turkey baster, run over and pop it into my wife myself - which part makes me the father? The ejaculation or the insertion? And why would you even bother to try to split that hair?

There are two definitions to father: biological and social. A sperm doner, by definition, satisfies the former definition - especially given that a large segment of in vitro fertilizations are done with married couples where they just aren't having any luck conceiving the old-fashioned way. Same sperm as usual, same ovum.

In that respect it is just another sexual position for a married couple that happened to get the woman pregnant - in this case, the position is in seperate rooms, but it does not invalidate paternity!

Your statement makes no sense.

Location matters to the definition? Why?

If I masterbate into a turkey baster, run over and pop it into my wife myself - which part makes me the father? The ejaculation or the insertion?

Insertion.

Insertion.

Yeah, well, you don't have to insert to get a woman pregnant. You just have to be pointing in the right direction during a dry hump.

Frankly, your argument fails to convince. Nowhere, in any definition I'd bet you can find, is there a requirement for proximity at point of conception. And by arguing that it's the hand that holds the turkey baster that defines paternal designation, then all men would have to do to "be fathers" by your logic is to be there with one hand on the syringe when the doctor inserts the fertilized eggs.

As if that somehow really matters....

Based on my personal experience the answer is no. My mother left my "father" before I was born and he got killed before I got to meet him. It feels like I have only one parent, a mother but no father. My "father" isn't any different then any other of the billions of complete strangers I've never met, he never even existed in my world. Those who have fathers seem to think it would be sad not to have one but it's not, it's just normal and natural for me, the way it should be, the way it has always been for as long as I can remember.

turkey baster

Winner of Thread, by default.
*nods in Sark's direction*

Yeah, well, you don't have to insert to get a woman pregnant. You just have to be pointing in the right direction during a dry hump.

Frankly, your argument fails to convince. Nowhere, in any definition I'd bet you can find, is there a requirement for proximity at point of conception. And by arguing that it's the hand that holds the turkey baster that defines paternal designation, then all men would have to do to "be fathers" by your logic is to be there with one hand on the syringe when the doctor inserts the fertilized eggs.

As if that somehow really matters....

You're being way too logical for this debate. *nod*

Biologically, yes, but that doesn't automatically make one a parent.

The man may produce the sperm, but he has no part in the creation of the baby, so I say "no".

This is the case for "natural" pregnancies, too.

A male contributes sperm, but his body does not participate in the making of a baby. Such is human biology.

So what are you so afraid of?

He's afraid that he's not sure of a love there is no cure for.

This is the case for "natural" pregnancies, too.

A male contributes sperm, but his body does not participate in the making of a baby. Such is human biology.

No, but his body makes the initial step in the baby making process much more attractive ;)

No, but his body makes the initial step in the baby making process much more attractive ;)

That depends on the guy. I made the mistake of going to the pub solo this weekend, and I encountered several males who made me question my lingering heterosexuality...

Seriously, straight men need to sit down and have a long talk with some of their brethren. When a woman looks around and finds that the most appealing males in the bar are the ones who are obviously homosexual, it means straight men are doing something wrong. :P

That depends on the guy. I made the mistake of going to the pub solo this weekend, and I encountered several males who made me question my lingering heterosexuality...

Seriously, straight men need to sit down and have a long talk with some of their brethren. When a woman looks around and finds that the most appealing males in the bar are the ones who are obviously homosexual, it means straight men are doing something wrong. :P

That's just it. Straight men don't know what to look for in other straight men. And if they ask one of their gay/lady friends, they'll be kicked out of the Manly Men's Club for Real Men(TM). In fact, they'll probably kick me out if they find out I wrote this.

That's just it. Straight men don't know what to look for in other straight men. And if they ask one of their gay/lady friends, they'll be kicked out of the Manly Men's Club for Real Men(TM). In fact, they'll probably kick me out if they find out I wrote this.
This is true. One thing that never fails to get a chuckle from me is how Manly Men must dedicate so much of their energy to making sure they never seem like they want to attract women. Only faggots and communists do fruity things like groom themselves or wear flattering clothing.

Indeed, I've found that a lot of hetero men care more about what other men will think of them than about attracting women, so much so that these hetero men spend as much time dressing to impress men as any gay guys do.

Wow I wonder what prompted this? Yes of course he is the father.

It turns out that Fiddly made a donation and Ruffy is the result.

The man may produce the sperm, but he has no part in the creation of the baby, so I say "no".

Do you agree? If you don't agree, you're like, wrong.

Wow I wonder what prompted this? Yes of course he is the father.

This is true. One thing that never fails to get a chuckle from me is how Manly Men must dedicate so much of their energy to making sure they never seem like they want to attract women. Only faggots and communists do fruity things like groom themselves or wear flattering clothing.

Indeed, I've found that a lot of hetero men care more about what other men will think of them than about attracting women, so much so that these hetero men spend as much time dressing to impress men as any gay guys do.

We're quite the paradox, us men. Very very simple, yet very very confusing, all in one smelly, badly dressed package.

We're quite the paradox, us men. Very very simple, yet very very confusing, all in one smelly, badly dressed package.
Guys always bitch about how hard it is to know what women want, but really it's pretty simple:

I want you to groom yourself to at least the level that would be appropriate for a male lowland gorilla.

I want your butt to be displayed pleasingly in a pair of well-fitted trousers or jeans.

I want you to PUT DOWN THE COLOGNE AND STEP AWAY SLOWLY. Thou shalt not bathe in CK For Men.

Congratulations, you are now ready to be oggled by me.