NationStates Jolt Archive

The Oklahoma bill 1084 is the toughest illegal immigrant law in the country and went into effect Nov 1st. The bill makes it illegal to hire or hide illegal immigrants and denies all illegal immigrants all social services except medical care. It also denies drivers licenses to all illegal immigrants. Foreign nationals can still get a license but it will expire when their visa expires. If you scroll down about 1/2 way on the link it gives a pretty good summary of what the new law does http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=126684

It sure has the local Hispanic community and the Catholic Church in an uproar. http://kotv.com/special/immigration/

Rumors are that about 20,000 illegal immigrants have left the state to go back to Mexico or neighboring states.

The law has already been upheld twice by a Federal judge, but the opponents plan on appealing all the way to the Supreme Court.

After reading the summary, do you support the law? I do. If the Federal Government is not going to do something to control the illegal immigration into this country, then the states have no choice but to take matters into their own hands.

Damn straight it's a good law.

After all, the US didn't get to where it is today by letting undocumented workers stick around, no sir.It's not like they have any useful function or anything... Jesus.

If it's already shifted the burden of 20,000 illegal immigrants away from the state, then the law is obviously working. What do opponents of the law want? Completely open borders?

After reading the summary, do you support the law?

No, I don't, because I think it is and should be a federal issue.

If it's already shifted the burden of 20,000 illegal immigrants away from the state, then the law is obviously working.

"Rumors are..."

"Rumors are..."

No smoke without fire. It doesn't matter if it's 20,000 or 20, it's moving things in the right direction.

No smoke without fire.

No lies without someone somewhere to fall for them, either, it would seem.

No smoke without fire. It doesn't matter if it's 20,000 or 20, it's moving things in the right direction.
Pfft!

And if it's only been legal immigrants moving away? You know, it can be difficult to tell, because they all look so decidedly foreign. Is that a step in the right direction too?
No lies without someone somewhere to fall for them, either, it would seem.
Indeed. :D

No lies without someone somewhere to fall for them, either, it would seem.

So you're saying that not a single illegal immigrant will have left the state upon the passing of a law that denies them all the priveliges they came in search of? I find that distinctly less likely.

So you're saying that not a single illegal immigrant will have left the state upon the passing of a law that denies them all the priveliges they came in search of? I find that distinctly less likely.

And you're saying that just because a journalist heard that 20,000 illegal immigrants have left, then it must be true?

Pfft!

And if it's only been legal immigrants moving away? You know, it can be difficult to tell, because they all look so decidedly foreign. Is that a step in the right direction too?


What, all foreigners moving away? You attempting to paint me as a racist or a xenophobe because I see it as unfair on the law-abiding citizens of a country (or a state) to let people to move in undetected, untracked and untaxed and take advantage of it's facilities while giving nothing back is slightly foolish.

This has nothing to do with how people look, or where they come from, and everything to do with how they got to where they are, and what they do when they get there.

And you're saying that just because a journalist heard that 20,000 illegal immigrants have left, then it must be true?

Nope, just more likely than "OK family, we can no longer work, drive or even find a place to live. But hey, let's stay here anyway, I like the scenery" when it would be far easier to just up and leave for another country or state.

It attacks the symptoms rather than the cause. Immigration shouldn't be abhored in this country, it should be welcomed. The reason it's not has to do with the fact that our tax burden is already ridiculous enough and that these people generally add to it. Eliminate welfare, and moochers don't have a reason to come here and drop down a brood of children anymore; and those who do come to this country to work (like just about every family that came here before we had welfare) will help the economy.

Immigration legislation is just one more way of sweeping the real problems under the rug. I think we should have more or less open borders, but that can't happen as long as immigrants have the potential to take advantage of us via tax revenue. Welfare and similar policies are the major cause of this problem, but not one politician on either side of the aisle has had the cajones to say so. People used to come to America because it was the "Land of Opportunity," now they come to America because it's the "Land of We'll-Pay-For-Your-Kids-As-Long-As-They-Were-Born-Here." Seriously, it's like a retirement plan for third-world folks.

"Toughest illegal immigration law went into effect Nov 1st."

"The Oklahoma bill 1084"

ahem 1084 =/= 2007

well I found that amusing

People used to come to America because it was the "Land of Opportunity," now they come to America because it's the "Land of We'll-Pay-For-Your-Kids-As-Long-As-They-Were-Born-Here." Seriously, it's like a retirement plan for third-world folks.

funny :D

No, I don't, because I think it is and should be a federal issue.

It is more than a federal issue, it is a national issue and the federal government has not acted on it so the states are taking matters into their own hands. If this law is upheld by the Supreme Court you can bet other states will pass similar laws.

And you're saying that just because a journalist heard that 20,000 illegal immigrants have left, then it must be true?

It is known that some have left. It is rumor that the number is 20,000.

It attacks the symptoms rather than the cause. Immigration shouldn't be abhored in this country, it should be welcomed.

Immigration is not abhored in this country and immigration is not the problem. Illegal immigration should be abhored and illegal immigration is the problem. The causes of the problem include but are not limited to:
1. Graft and corruption at all levels of government in Mexico.
2. Limited employment in Mexico and the inaction of the Mexican government to improve the economy and bring more jobs to Mexico.
3. Lack of action by the US government to enforce our immigration laws.
4. Employers who use cheap illegal immigrant labor.
5. Local governments that refuse to do anything about the problem.

The funny thing about this debate is they are illegal immigrants. Both sides can agree to that. Letting them stay is like saying "Oh you murdered 20 people in broad daylight? Well we are not going to put you in prison because that would an inconvenience to you." I challenge anyone to prove me wrong on that. Murder is illegal and therefore murders must pay for their crime. Illegal immigration is by its very name illegal and therefore they must pay for their crime. Does anyone else see this double standard? We will call it illegal but allow you to stay and since you are not here legally you don't have to give anything to the government but you are eligible for all of the benefits of being in this country.

The funny thing about this debate is they are illegal immigrants. SNIP

Some would argue, "Illegal immigration is only a misdemeanor and not a felony" so, what's the big deal? But you are correct, it is illegal and these folks have broken the law. Kind of like someone caught speeding, "But officer I was only 10 MPH over the speed limit so how about just giving me a warning."

funny :D

Yeah, I can't decide if it's satire or an actual opinion, but that doesn't matter because I can laugh at it just the same.

Some would argue, "Illegal immigration is only a misdemeanor and not a felony" so, what's the big deal? But you are correct, it is illegal and these folks have broken the law. Kind of like someone caught speeding, "But officer I was only 10 MPH over the speed limit so how about just giving me a warning."

Well you got the point. No matter what it is or what the punishment for it is, it is still a crime and against the law. Therefore why should they be exempt from punishment? I really don't see the jump between breaking the law is an offense that requires punishment in some form or another to breaking the law is an offense that requires punishment, unless enough people do it that it shouldn't be an issue.

The funny thing about this debate is they are illegal immigrants. Both sides can agree to that. Letting them stay is like saying "Oh you murdered 20 people in broad daylight? Well we are not going to put you in prison because that would an inconvenience to you." I challenge anyone to prove me wrong on that. Murder is illegal and therefore murders must pay for their crime. Illegal immigration is by its very name illegal and therefore they must pay for their crime. Does anyone else see this double standard? We will call it illegal but allow you to stay and since you are not here legally you don't have to give anything to the government but you are eligible for all of the benefits of being in this country.

sorry, even tho I am against Illegal Immigration, I can't equate it to murder.

Equating Illegal Immigration to Criminal Tresspass maybe, but not murder.

sorry, even tho I am against Illegal Immigration, I can't equate it to murder.

Equating Illegal Immigration to Criminal Tresspass maybe, but not murder.

I used murder because at that moment I couldn't think of anything off the top of my head that was an extreme but wasn't too extreme. See my other post for a bit of explanation.

Some would argue, "Illegal immigration is only a misdemeanor and not a felony" so, what's the big deal? But you are correct, it is illegal and these folks have broken the law. Kind of like someone caught speeding, "But officer I was only 10 MPH over the speed limit so how about just giving me a warning."

yes but getting too many tickets can result in suspension of licence and stiffer fines. :cool:

SHOCK!
A state DARES to enforce laws? How...how...disgusting! Its positivly fascist I tell you!
If people go around enforcing laws, how are we supposed to make any money!?
I demand immidiate dissolution of the entire judicial branch for this OUTRAGE. No more judges! No more juries! Ditch it all! Justice by the people for the people!

SHOCK!
A state DARES to enforce laws? How...how...disgusting! Its positivly fascist I tell you!
If people go around enforcing laws, how are we supposed to make any money!?
I demand immidiate dissolution of the entire judicial branch for this OUTRAGE. No more judges! No more juries! Ditch it all! Justice by the people for the people!

So vigilantes and hangings again? Sounds fun....

Well you got the point. No matter what it is or what the punishment for it is, it is still a crime and against the law. Therefore why should they be exempt from punishment?

I agree with you. The punishment for that offense is deportation. In this case the federal government has abdicated their power and the state doesn't have the power to deport the illegals. So, the state government passed a law that they can enforce.

wow, this is really the least they could do. Its actually rather appalling that laws like this aren't uniform across all of america.

wow, this is really the least they could do. Its actually rather appalling that laws like this aren't uniform across all of america.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Good.

Oklahoma - the best argument, outside of Kansas, as to why you're allowed to take the piss out of the US.

Btw.. I never answered the question...

whatever they want, it's up to them. I wouldn't mind seeing this law (or something similar) here in Hawaii.

and like the last time a state tried this, this law will be declared unconstitutional.

Oklahoma - the best argument, outside of Kansas, as to why you're allowed to take the piss out of the US.

*kicks*

I don't really think the law will be held up, it's pretty harsh. I know for a fact people are leaving the state, mostly brown people, the non-brown illegal immigrants for some reason seem to think they won't be bothered..I think they are probably right. :(

Oklahoma - the best argument, outside of Kansas, as to why you're allowed to take the piss out of the US.

What?

Finally a step in the right direction. Whatever you feel about the border immigration issue, illegal immigration is not good - for both America, Mexico, and the immigrants.

Btw.. I never answered the question...

whatever they want, it's up to them. I wouldn't mind seeing this law (or something similar) here in Hawaii.

There are illegals in hawaii?

There are illegals in hawaii?

I am sure there are, people move all kinds of places and have their visas expire and such and just hang out anyway.

I am sure there are, people move all kinds of places and have their visas expire and such and just hang out anyway.

I heard from a friend who visited hawaii that the natives there beat up white bums.

There are illegals in hawaii?

Why not? There's illegals all the way up in CT. In fact, New Haven, CT came out recently with a city ID card that is intended, at least partially, for undocumented (AKA illegal) immigrants.

The concept is not unreasonable, but one must make a distinction between legal and illegal immigration effectively. This law doesn't seem terrible in what it does on the surface. My fear is that it will deter legal immigration too.

While illegal immigartion is a problem, this is going too far. It just makes them bolder. With Illegal Immagrants, they can stay if they haven't committed a violent crime, have no ties to drug lords, terrorists, or forigen militaries, however as punishment for being here illegially they are stripped of the right to vote, and have to payback every penny they earn while hear illegally. through the legalization process, learn english, learn American Culture, and they only get the get the right to vote once they pay back all of the money they earned hear illegally.

What, all foreigners moving away? You attempting to paint me as a racist or a xenophobe because I see it as unfair on the law-abiding citizens of a country (or a state) to let people to move in undetected, untracked and untaxed and take advantage of it's facilities while giving nothing back is slightly foolish.
I'm not attempting to paint you as anything, I'm rather asking you a question. How do you know that any illegal immigrant has left the state? Has any illegal stood up and said "Fuck this, I'm outta here!"? Or have people observed that people have left? If the last part is what happened, how do they know they were illegals? It's not easy to observe legal status just based on what you can see, you know.

So I'll ask you again. There is a rumor that illegal imigrants have left; If it turns out that it's legal immigrants that have moved away, because they feel that this piece of legislation is just (another) way pf persecuting and harassing them?

After all, from the link in the OP:
Hispanic leaders say fear of the new law is driving some Hispanics to leave and causing some landlords to believe they should be checking citizenship
Many folks think the only people who have a reason to be afraid of Oklahoma's new immigration law are illegal immigrants. The News On 6’s Ashli Sims reports two local educators say that is not the case. The women say they are living in fear that their immigration status will be questioned even though they are both legal residents.

Gabby Dorsett teaches Spanish at a local bilingual preschool, but she says the climate in Tulsa has changed so much, she is afraid her own child will not speak the language in public.

"I love Tulsa. I love to be here, and I love America. I feel part American, I've been here for ten years, but I'm afraid," preschool teacher Gabby Dorsett said.

Dorsett is a permanent legal resident, married to an American. She says legal and illegal immigrants alike feel paralyzed by Oklahoma's sweeping new immigration reform.

"Those people are scared to send their kids to school. They are scared to drive. And as a human being, it's not nice to live in fear. Who wants to live in fear?” said Dorsett.

Proponents of House Bill 1804 have long said legal residents have nothing to fear.

"If you're legal you're welcome here, we welcome you, we don't care what color your skin is, what your background is, what your ethnicity is, this is about rule of law," immigration reform supporter Dan Howard said.

But some say they no longer feel welcome.

"I felt welcome but this last month I am with fear. I am with fear because I don't know what can happen," preschool administrator Marina Savoretti said.

They fear what can happen is they will be arrested for looking Hispanic.

This has nothing to do with how people look, or where they come from, and everything to do with how they got to where they are, and what they do when they get there.
Tell that to the locals.

It is more than a federal issue, it is a national issue and the federal government has not acted on it so the states are taking matters into their own hands. If this law is upheld by the Supreme Court you can bet other states will pass similar laws.
That's why I say I'm against it. The federal government should act, and the law is a testament to their failure.

*kicks*

I don't really think the law will be held up, it's pretty harsh. I know for a fact people are leaving the state, mostly brown people, the non-brown illegal immigrants for some reason seem to think they won't be bothered..I think they are probably right. :(
I think so too...

It is more than a federal issue, it is a national issue and the federal government has not acted on it so the states are taking matters into their own hands.

To bad they can't, you know, do that.

If this law is upheld by the Supreme Court

Don't worry, it won't be. In fact this probably will never get anywhere near the supreme court. It'll get tossed at the trial court levle, upheld on appeal, and that will be that.

and like the last time a state tried this, this law will be declared unconstitutional.

To the best of my knowledge this is the first "state to try this. :rolleyes: The way it is written it will probably be upheld as there is nothing "unconstitutional" about it.

supporrt it. america aint needed dirty immigrants.

Damn illegals. How can citizens compete when citizens are required, BY LAW, to be paid minimum wage. In other words, more than what illegal immigrants are paid. They're nothing but cheap labor in the eyes of business.

That's why this issue needs fixing. It's mostly Mexico's fault. If it wasn't such a shithole, people wouldn't try to illegally imigrate to the US. They'd try to go to Europe if it wasn't for that damn ocean in the way.

To the best of my knowledge this is the first "state to try this. :rolleyes: The way it is written it will probably be upheld as there is nothing "unconstitutional" about it.

ORLY (http://http://www.aclupa.org/pressroom/federalcourtstrikesdowndis.htm)?

Immigration regulation is the power of the federal government, not the states. You really should learn more about the constitution before trying to talk about it.

You can read the text of the opinion here (http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/Hazletondecision.pdf). I suggest you pay close attention to the section on federal pre-emption, starting on page 91

Fail.

Of particular importance one should note page 101, stating "the prevasiveness of the federal [immigration] regulation precludes supplimentation by the states"

The ruling is pretty clear. The states can not step in where congress reigns supreme. Federal immigration law sufficiently encompasses all realistic avenues of and concerning immigration and immigrants, that the states can not add any substantive law that would not tread over other pre-existing aspects of federal law.

In other words, federal law already covers pretty much everything that needs to be covered, and has put in place regulations concerning everything that requires regulation (although, true, perhaps not in ways the states always like the way the government chooses to regulate, but that's their problem).

there's nothing left for the states to do on the matter. Any attempt to regulate anything about immigration would effectively contradict or come in conflict with federal regulation on the matter, and federal regulation wins. Federal regulation is pervasive through the field, there's nothing left to regulate, and any attempt to regulate some aspect of immigration smacks into federal regulations.

In other words, federal law already covers pretty much everything that needs to be covered, and has put in place regulations concerning everything that requires regulation (although, true, perhaps not in ways the states always like the way the government chooses to regulate, but that's their problem).

there's nothing left for the states to do on the matter. Any attempt to regulate anything about immigration would effectively contradict or come in conflict with federal regulation on the matter, and federal regulation wins.

Did you read the Oklahoma bill or at least the summary? I provided a link in the OP. The Oklahoma law does not attempt to regulate or change any immigration law. It denies illegal immigrants social services, drivers licenses, etc. and requires employers to check the immigration status of employees. It also requires state and local law enforcement officers to check the immigration status of individuals arrested for DUI and felonies and turn the illegals over to ICE.

Did you read the Oklahoma bill or at least the summary? I provided a link in the OP. The Oklahoma law does not attempt to regulate or change any immigration law. It denies illegal immigrants social services, drivers licenses, etc. and requires employers to check the immigration status of employees. It also requires state and local law enforcement officers to check the immigration status of individuals arrested for DUI and felonies and turn the illegals over to ICE.

which is largly what the pennsylvania law did, it got cut down, especially the parts about employers.

I just love how folks in this thread who are for this always disclaim that it doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the color of the immigrants skin...

And then in their next post rant about them damn dirty Mexicans and/or Mexico.

Kinda really kills their defence.

I just love how folks in this thread who are for this always disclaim that it doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the color of the immigrants skin...

And then in their next post rant about them damn dirty Mexicans and/or Mexico.

Kinda really kills their defence.

Personally, I'd be for the federal government actually enforcing the laws it has already, instead of making it seem that the only way ANYTHING will get done about illegal immigration is if the states take matters into their own hands.

And I don't care if the illegal is white, black, brown, yellow, green, plaid, or polka dotted. I'm of Irish and Polish ancestry (my grandparents on both sides immigrated legally), and if someone was here illegally from Ireland or Poland, I'd feel the same way about it as if they'd come from Mexico.

The Oklahoma bill 1084 is the toughest illegal immigrant law in the country and went into effect Nov 1st. The bill makes it illegal to hire or hide illegal immigrants and denies all illegal immigrants all social services except medical care. It also denies drivers licenses to all illegal immigrants. Foreign nationals can still get a license but it will expire when their visa expires. If you scroll down about 1/2 way on the link it gives a pretty good summary of what the new law does http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=126684

It sure has the local Hispanic community and the Catholic Church in an uproar. http://kotv.com/special/immigration/

Rumors are that about 20,000 illegal immigrants have left the state to go back to Mexico or neighboring states.

The law has already been upheld twice by a Federal judge, but the opponents plan on appealing all the way to the Supreme Court.

After reading the summary, do you support the law? I do. If the Federal Government is not going to do something to control the illegal immigration into this country, then the states have no choice but to take matters into their own hands.

Believe it or not, I approve of this law because it attacks those that exploit illegal immigrants and will make it clear just how much they actually contribute. Believe me, whether it's upheld or not, it won;t last long. The rich won't stand for it.

And I don't care if the illegal is white, black, brown, yellow, green, plaid, or polka dotted. I'm of Irish and Polish ancestry (my grandparents on both sides immigrated legally), and if someone was here illegally from Ireland or Poland, I'd feel the same way about it as if they'd come from Mexico.
You do? You do realize there is actually a number of illegal Irish and Polish immigrants in the US? 600,000 people are from Canada and Europe, and yet I don't hear screaming about building fences on the northen border, nor do I think that the new law in Ok is going to be enforced on anyone who doesn't look hispanic.

Although I WOULD love to see the police start asking for proof of citizenship for everyone who is stopped by them in Ok, I'm willing to bet the laws would be changed really quickly then.

You do? You do realize there is actually a number of illegal Irish and Polish immigrants in the US? 600,000 people are from Canada and Europe, and yet I don't hear screaming about building fences on the northen border, nor do I think that the new law in Ok is going to be enforced on anyone who doesn't look hispanic.

Yes, I do feel that way. Those Polish and Irish illegal immigrants can get out, too (as well as anybody of any nationality that's illegally in this country). As to a fence on the northern border, I don't believe a fence on either border will solve anything, but I believe that both borders should be secured. Once the borders are secured, the US government should start to reform the immigration laws, so that people can LEGALLY immigrate.

Although I WOULD love to see the police start asking for proof of citizenship for everyone who is stopped by them in Ok, I'm willing to bet the laws would be changed really quickly then.

I carry my drivers license and at least one other form of ID (usually either my S.S. card or my birth certificate), so I wouldn't have a problem. Of course, I RARELY get pulled over by the cops (maybe 4 times since 1991, when I started driving), so I shouldn't have a problem anyways. Since I've never been to Oklahoma though, my point is moo.*












*Yes, that was an intentional typo. :D

The law has already been upheld twice by a Federal judge, but the opponents plan on appealing all the way to the Supreme Court.Source?

I see where the district judge has dismissed the case for lack of standing, but can you show me where he's upheld the constitutionality of the law?

To the best of my knowledge this is the first "state to try this. :rolleyes: The way it is written it will probably be upheld as there is nothing "unconstitutional" about it.Sure there is. This is explicitly federal territory.

And while this is the first real attempt at the state level, the federal courts struck down an attempt last year by a town in PA to set its own immigration policy, precisely because they don't have the power to do any such thing. Neither does a state.

I carry my drivers license and at least one other form of ID (usually either my S.S. card or my birth certificate), so I wouldn't have a problem.
Birth certificate, if certified and not a copy MIGHT be accepted, but a DL or a SS card does not constitute proof of US citizenship and none of the above would get you back into the country should you leave it by plane.

Since I've never been to Oklahoma though, my point is moo.*
*Yes, that was an intentional typo. :D
I thought they had mostly corn in Oklahoma. ;)

Birth certificate, if certified and not a copy MIGHT be accepted, but a DL or a SS card does not constitute proof of US citizenship and none of the above would get you back into the country should you leave it by plane.

My birth certificate is certified. And if I were to leave the country for whatever reason, I'd be sure to have a passport.

I thought they had mostly corn in Oklahoma. ;)

*shrugs* I have no idea.

Nice law. I'd be in favour of implementing it in the UK.:)

I would hate to be a project manager in the Oklahoma construction industry right now. All those schedules and timetables must be so much scrap paper now.

And any estimates made before this law will be useless now.

I bet the only people who profit from this are white undocumented workers.

And cops that like to beat up brown people.

I thought they had mostly corn in Oklahoma. ;)

we have mostly wheat, meat cows, and oil derricks.

There are a few corn fields but not like in Kansas and such.

we have mostly wheat, meat cows, and oil derricks.

There are a few corn fields but not like in Kansas and such.
WHAT? You mean Oklahoma lied to me?! There's no 'corn as high as an elephants eye by the Fourth of July'? :( Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get hit now.

Lowering taxes and increasing government spending; now that's a negative on the economy. If Americans really want to hunt down the real culprits that are ruining the American economy, they should be going after their government and not the scapegoats (Mexicans, Latinos, none-whites or foreigners). Same thing with how the American Senate was hunting down insignificant foreign oil businessmen that allegedly profited from the food-for-oil scheme while at the same time, the Senate shied away from the real questions relating to the shady business activities of American corporations like Halliburton and Kellogg’s. But thank god the American Senate made a hearing with George Galloway (British MP) and it was a good hearing even though most Americans probably missed it.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj0m0dSUPR8&mode=related&search=)

The funny thing about this debate is they are illegal immigrants. Both sides can agree to that. Letting them stay is like saying "Oh you murdered 20 people in broad daylight? Well we are not going to put you in prison because that would an inconvenience to you." I challenge anyone to prove me wrong on that. Murder is illegal and therefore murders must pay for their crime. Illegal immigration is by its very name illegal and therefore they must pay for their crime. Does anyone else see this double standard? We will call it illegal but allow you to stay and since you are not here legally you don't have to give anything to the government but you are eligible for all of the benefits of being in this country.

The enforcement of a law depends on funding and an expected low number of violations.

The reason why the tactic of civil disobedience defeated the colonial overlord in India after WWII is that vast numbers of people chose, together and peacefully, to defy that colonial power, and the reason why U.S. copyright law is honored in the breach today is that the number of people in the U.S. who are in the habit of downloading or making copies of music or commercial software that they like without paying for it includes almost everybody under the age of 30.

In either case, it was/is not feasible to arrest, prosecute, and either jail or fine all violators except for relatively few attempts to create examples.

Similarly, the illegal immigration problem won't be resolved through the enforcement of existing laws for lack of sufficient funding to address the large numbers of violations of that body of laws.

While illegal immigartion is a problem, this is going too far. It just makes them bolder. With Illegal Immagrants, they can stay if they haven't committed a violent crime, have no ties to drug lords, terrorists, or forigen militaries, however as punishment for being here illegially they are stripped of the right to vote, and have to payback every penny they earn while hear illegally. through the legalization process, learn english, learn American Culture, and they only get the get the right to vote once they pay back all of the money they earned hear illegally.

Buh?

Since when do illegal immigrants have a right to vote? My father was a legal resident in the US for over thirty years and he couldn't vote...

You do? You do realize there is actually a number of illegal Irish and Polish immigrants in the US? 600,000 people are from Canada and Europe, and yet I don't hear screaming about building fences on the northen border, nor do I think that the new law in Ok is going to be enforced on anyone who doesn't look hispanic.


There's not much point in building a fence on the northern border because the number of Canadian illegals into the US is but a fraction of the number of illegals coming in from the south. It should also be noted that not all those who come in from the south are Mexican or even hispanic.

Besides, we have an open border with Canada. What would be the point?

And a fence wouldn't help against illegals from Europe ;)

It is more than a federal issue, it is a national issue and the federal government has not acted on it so the states are taking matters into their own hands. If this law is upheld by the Supreme Court you can bet other states will pass similar laws.

Actually, I think that it is best if most Federal issues evolve from the states. Incidentally, my wife works for a Department of Human Services in Oklahoma, and I can tell you, without question, that illegals are in fact leaving. My wife dealt with a case yesterday where a husband and wife came into the DHS to get formula. The wife asked if she could have three months vouchers, as she was having to leave the state until she could attain citizenship. Policy only allows one month. She was informed that her husband (legal citizen) could receive the vouchers on the first of each following month, to which she replied that she didn't know how he would get the formula to Mexico, where the rest of the family is.

Notice two things..... One, the ease with which the person assumed that the system could be circumvented (Wonder why illegal immigrants would believe that). Two, she is now attempting to attain citizenship in the correct manner.

Maybe, just maybe, the system is working.