NationStates Jolt Archive

Now, it's been linked to pedestrian deaths, not because of more or less daylight, but because of the switch itself. There is no benefit to DST/ST that isn't countered. Therefore, it should be repealed.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071103/ap_on_sc/time_change_accidents)

WASHINGTON - After clocks are turned back this weekend, pedestrians walking during the evening rush hour are nearly three times more likely to be struck and killed by cars than before the time change, two scientists calculate. Ending daylight saving time translates into about 37 more U.S. pedestrian deaths around 6 p.m. in November compared to October, the researchers report.

Their study of risk to pedestrians is preliminary but confirms previous findings of higher deaths after clocks are set back in fall.

It's not the darkness itself, but the adjustment to earlier nighttime that's the killer, said professors Paul Fischbeck and David Gerard, both of Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh.

Fischbeck, who regularly walks with his 4-year-old twins around 6 p.m., is worried enough that he'll be more cautious starting Monday.

"A three times increase in the risk is really dramatic, and because of that we're carrying a flashlight," he said.

Fischbeck and Gerard conducted a preliminary study of seven years of federal traffic fatalities and calculated risk per mile walked for pedestrians. They found that per-mile risk jumps 186 percent from October to November, but then drops 21 percent in December.

They said the drop-off by December indicates the risk is caused by the trouble both drivers and pedestrians have adjusting when darkness suddenly comes an hour earlier.

The reverse happens in the morning when clocks are set back and daylight comes earlier. Pedestrian risk plummets, but there are fewer walkers then, too. The 13 lives saved at 6 a.m. don't offset the 37 lost at 6 p.m., the researchers found.

The risk for pedestrian deaths at 6 p.m. is by far the highest in November than any other month, the scientists said. The danger declines each month through May.

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety of Arlington, Va., in earlier studies found the switch from daylight saving time to standard time increased pedestrian deaths. Going to a year-round daylight saving time would save about 200 deaths a year, the institute calculated, said spokesman Russ Rader.

"Benjamin Franklin conceived of daylight savings time as a way of saving candles," Rader said Friday. "Today we know it saves lives."

The risk at 6 p.m. in November, after daylight saving time ends, is 11 times higher than the risk for the same hour in April, when daylight saving begins, according to the Carnegie Mellon researchers.

Fischbeck and Gerard used federal traffic fatality data that they've incorporated into a searchable database for different risk factors. Their analysis was not peer-reviewed or being published in a scientific journal.

But it does jibe with other peer-reviewed studies that looked at raw fatalities.

A 2001 study by John M. Sullivan at the University of Michigan looked at national traffic statistics from 1987 to 1997 and found that there were 65 crashes killing pedestrians in the week before the clocks fell back and 227 in the week after.

Fischbeck and Gerard found the increase in fatality risk after the end of daylight saving time is only for pedestrians. No such jump was seen for drivers or passengers in cars.

Once everyone "springs forward" to daylight saving time in April, there is a 78 percent drop in risk at 6 p.m., they said.

But overall for the evening rush hour, turning the clock back is a killer. In seven years there have been 250 more deaths in the fall and 139 fewer deaths in the spring.

"This clearly shows that both drivers and pedestrians should think about this daylight savings adjustment," Gerard said. "There are lives at stake."

Now, it's been linked to pedestrian deaths, not because of more or less daylight, but because of the switch itself. There is no benefit to DST/ST that isn't countered. Therefore, it should be repealed.

It is God's revenge for screwing with the time. :eek::p

I think it should be abolished simply because I didn't notice last time and am simply bitter about losing that hour of extra sleep.

Time is bunk. *nod*

Time is bunk. *nod*

"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."

Sel Appa, did you bloody read the thing? It's the switching OFF OF DST that increases the danger, not switching TO DST! If anything this is an argument for keeping it on all the time.

"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."

:)

Now, it's been linked to pedestrian deaths, not because of more or less daylight, but because of the switch itself. There is no benefit to DST/ST that isn't countered. Therefore, it should be repealed.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071103/ap_on_sc/time_change_accidents)

Lets do some back of the hand math, shall we?

There are roughly 300,000,000 people in the US. Of these, we might guess that about 1% walk at the right sort of time every evening.

That's 3,000,000 people.

Now, apparently about 40 extra of these people will die. 40 people out of 3,000,000? This is about 0.001%. Obviously, people dying is a bad thing and so on, but still. 0.001%?

On the other hand, 10 who walk in the morning will live. I'm willing to bet that far fewer people go walking at the right time of the morning - would about 1/10th as many sound right? That's 300,000. If we remember that 10 extra lives are saved, we've saved 0.003% - three times the percentage.

Combine this with the other benefits of DST, and I say we keep it.

Also, please note that most of the numbers have been rounded in your favour.

Now, it's been linked to pedestrian deaths, not because of more or less daylight, but because of the switch itself. There is no benefit to DST/ST that isn't countered. Therefore, it should be repealed.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071103/ap_on_sc/time_change_accidents)

Nice, except the article is complete bullshit.... Darkness comes earlier NOT because of DST; but because the DAYS actually get SHORTER due to the offset rotational axis of the earth. A month ago the sun was setting around 8:00PM; it's now setting around 6:00pm.... In addition, a month ago the sun was rising at about 6:30AM and now is rising closer to 8:00AM... Arguments against DST switching have no bearing on the complaints.... People simply need to alter their schedules (regardless of DST switches) to mesh with the change in daylight hours which occur regardless of it.... If someone is walking their children at 6:00pm in the summer months; they need to walk the kids EARLIER as the days shorten, DST or no DST.

I actually found it quite exciting this year, especially with all those sudden lateness scares you get



oh dear.

Sel Appa, did you bloody read the thing? It's the switching OFF OF DST that increases the danger, not switching TO DST! If anything this is an argument for keeping it on all the time.

That makes no sense at all. You can't have it all the time. You switched timezones then.

Lets do some back of the hand math, shall we?

There are roughly 300,000,000 people in the US. Of these, we might guess that about 1% walk at the right sort of time every evening.

That's 3,000,000 people.

Now, apparently about 40 extra of these people will die. 40 people out of 3,000,000? This is about 0.001%. Obviously, people dying is a bad thing and so on, but still. 0.001%?

On the other hand, 10 who walk in the morning will live. I'm willing to bet that far fewer people go walking at the right time of the morning - would about 1/10th as many sound right? That's 300,000. If we remember that 10 extra lives are saved, we've saved 0.003% - three times the percentage.

Combine this with the other benefits of DST, and I say we keep it.

Also, please note that most of the numbers have been rounded in your favour.

Every "benefit" is replaced by a disbenefit. Everything gets balanced out in the long run. There are then disbenefits, such as messing with people's heads and bioclocks that aren't balanced out.

Every "benefit" is replaced by a disbenefit. Everything gets balanced out in the long run. There are then disbenefits, such as messing with people's heads and bioclocks that aren't balanced out.

Zombie Jesus does not approve of your neologism. Further, how is 0.003% of people being saved by the change balanced with 0.001% of people dying? Some simple maths says thats a net gain of 0.002%

I'm just glad it'll be light out when I leave for school instead of being so dark, and it'll be dark when I go to bed. :)

This seems like a real stretch...maybe it's just due to the fact that the days are getting shorter overall rather than because of the hour change.

That makes no sense at all. You can't have it all the time. You switched timezones then.

I was talking about society as a whole leaving it on, dippy.

I was talking about society as a whole leaving it on, dippy.

Then move to Hawaii. no DST here! :p

I was talking about society as a whole leaving it on, dippy.

Then it wouldn't exist.

Then move to Hawaii. no DST here! :p
Are you kidding me?! No! Horrible climate in Hawaii...just horrible...
Then it wouldn't exist.
Well, that's true, but what makes it existent now? Either way it's just us humans imposing specific definitions upon a specific passage of time.

Hawaii isn't the only DST-free zone.

"For the U.S. and its territories, Daylight Saving Time is NOT observed in Hawaii, American Samoa, Guam, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, the Commonwealth of Northern Mariana Islands, and Arizona . The Navajo Nation participates in the Daylight Saving Time policy, even in Arizona, due to its large size and location in three states."

Having been brought up in a land that has used DST for a very long time, I am personally in favour of keeping it. Those of you who are opposed to it, how would you like being woken up at five in the morning with the sun shining in your face - when I travelled into Queensland last year, that is exactly what happened; and of course not being able to do anything at night because the sun set at 6:45 in the evening.

DST has been a pile of worthless shit since the advent of the Industrial Revolution and everyone knows it.

Now, it's been linked to pedestrian deaths, not because of more or less daylight, but because of the switch itself. There is no benefit to DST/ST that isn't countered. Therefore, it should be repealed.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071103/ap_on_sc/time_change_accidents)
37 deaths?

OH THE WOE AND HORROR!

Combine this with the other benefits of DST, and I say we keep it.

Other Benefits?? DST has no benefits.

Having been brought up in a land that has used DST for a very long time, I am personally in favour of keeping it. Those of you who are opposed to it, how would you like being woken up at five in the morning with the sun shining in your face - when I travelled into Queensland last year, that is exactly what happened; and of course not being able to do anything at night because the sun set at 6:45 in the evening.

Don't live there then.

Other Benefits?? DST has no benefits.
It makes stupid people late / early on the next Monday. This can only be a good thing.

Can someone explain the "extra hour of sleep" thing? I keep thinking about ti and I can't figure it out. You go to bed an hour later, you get up an hour later.

DTS sucks.

Just screws up your sleeping habits for the first 3 days or so.

Plus it's really sucks when it's lonly like 5 o'clock and its pitch black out.

Living at the corner of the closest major intersection to a highschool, I notice that the month after the week after DST allot less accidents occur.

Hawaii isn't the only DST-free zone.

"For the U.S. and its territories, Daylight Saving Time is NOT observed in Hawaii, American Samoa, Guam, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, the Commonwealth of Northern Mariana Islands, and Arizona . The Navajo Nation participates in the Daylight Saving Time policy, even in Arizona, due to its large size and location in three states."

So Arizona doesn't do DTS or Martin Luther King Day. Wierd, they just really don't fit in.

Can someone explain the "extra hour of sleep" thing? I keep thinking about ti and I can't figure it out. You go to bed an hour later, you get up an hour later.

DTS sucks.

Just screws up your sleeping habits for the first 3 days or so.

Plus it's really sucks when it's lonly like 5 o'clock and its pitch black out.Extra hour of sleep: when DST goes out of effect, you turn the clock back one our at midnight. Say you go to bed at 2200. You sleep 2200-0000, then your clock turns back, and you sleep from 2300 to 0000 again. Then you sleep from 0000-whatever time your lazy ass wakes up at on a regular day. If you are among the lucky few that can sleep until they naturally wake up on the weekend, it makes no difference; you would just wake up an hour earlier. To the rest of us, it means we get an extra hour of sleep.

This seems like a real stretch...maybe it's just due to the fact that the days are getting shorter overall rather than because of the hour change.

Shhhh, how else can we not admit it is our stupidity unless we blame someone else for our problems?

This seems like a real stretch...maybe it's just due to the fact that the days are getting shorter overall rather than because of the hour change.

because normally, on the next day, it gets dark a few minutes earlier, rather than a whole hour.

Whoever dreamed DST up needs to be rode like a rented mule. What a pile of useless horseshit. I hate it, especially in the spring.

Clocks are only right twice a year.

The sun rising is the best measure of time, and using ntp and the cell-phone network, there is no reason we cannot make "standard time" correct by the sun every single day of the year.

No 1-hour lurch. Sunrise is 6 AM, and there's a little lurch at 3 AM local time. Every single day of the year.

I got this great idea while talking to a cat. And no, I'm not joking.

Clocks are only right twice a year.

The sun rising is the best measure of time, and using ntp and the cell-phone network, there is no reason we cannot make "standard time" correct by the sun every single day of the year.

No 1-hour lurch. Sunrise is 6 AM, and there's a little lurch at 3 AM local time. Every single day of the year.

I got this great idea while talking to a cat. And no, I'm not joking.But then 600 is at different times in different places in the same time zone. This summer, I had the pleasure of living in Fort McMurray, in the northern portion of Alberta. The sun rose just before 400 late June. Go further north, and you will end up at a place where the sun rises once a year. Go further south and the sun will only rise within an hour of 600 at any given time of the year.

Clocks are only right twice a year.

The sun rising is the best measure of time, and using ntp and the cell-phone network, there is no reason we cannot make "standard time" correct by the sun every single day of the year.

No 1-hour lurch. Sunrise is 6 AM, and there's a little lurch at 3 AM local time. Every single day of the year.

I got this great idea while talking to a cat. And no, I'm not joking.

On that note, the day should commence at 6AM, not 12AM.

Considering how much crap it would screw up REMOVING it. (Computers, etc) I don't much care.

Considering how much crap it would screw up REMOVING it. (Computers, etc) I don't much care.

No it won't. Most of the clocksetting is manual. Computers just need a patch.

No it won't. Most of the clocksetting is manual. Computers just need a patch.Only two of my clocks is manual set. My TV, Computer, Cell, etc all use ntp to get the proper time. Only my car and microwave need to be changed.

Though my friends with XP actually had to do it twice to their computer. It tried to change it the wrong weekend. They had to change it the actually weekend when the computer did not, and some random weekend when the computer did change the time. I use Vista and Linux. Both got it right.

But then 600 is at different times in different places in the same time zone. This summer, I had the pleasure of living in Fort McMurray, in the northern portion of Alberta. The sun rose just before 400 late June. Go further north, and you will end up at a place where the sun rises once a year. Go further south and the sun will only rise within an hour of 600 at any given time of the year.

Time zones? Old fashioned rubbish. We have GPS now.

Anyone who can't figure out the time-change before driving across town deserves to turn up late (going east) and lose their job.

North and south does rather kill the idea though. Meanie.

Ugh, I almost forgot that this is the weekend we 'fall back'. I think I'll switch the clocks tonight so that it doesn't kill me Monday morning.

This is the only, the ONLY reason I would consider living in Saskatchewan...because they refuse to follow DST. It's fucking stupid and annoying and I always manage to fuck it up :D

Time zones? Old fashioned rubbish. We have GPS now.

Anyone who can't figure out the time-change before driving across town deserves to turn up late (going east) and lose their job.

North and south does rather kill the idea though. Meanie.But GPS isn't standard in anything. Not cars. Not cellphones. Not pants. They are expensive as sin too. That would quickly change in a world where everyone has to have one, but don't think there won't be massive gouging on the initial buy. Besides, we invented time zones to get rid of such inconveniences. Would you also suggest we give up our cars to go back to horse drawn carriage?

Does anyone support this shit?

I go to school with a guy from a northern BC town that voted to not use DST. So within their little town, the time is x, and in the rest of the province, it's y :P

Daylight Savings Time is stupid. I hate it.

Ugh, I almost forgot that this is the weekend we 'fall back'. I think I'll switch the clocks tonight so that it doesn't kill me Monday morning.

This is the only, the ONLY reason I would consider living in Saskatchewan...because they refuse to follow DST. It's fucking stupid and annoying and I always manage to fuck it up :DI cannot believe people can fuck up something as simple as DST. Spring forward, fall back. It is really quite simple. Your calender will tell you what weekend to do it. With the level of high-teching going on, you shouldn't have to even think about it much longer.

Besides, I rather like not seeing children getting hit by cars on their way to school all winter and would not change it because a few people are far to dumb to operate a clock.

I cannot believe people can fuck up something as simple as DST. Spring forward, fall back. It is really quite simple. Your calender will tell you what weekend to do it. With the level of high-teching going on, you shouldn't have to even think about it much longer.

Besides, I rather like not seeing children getting hit by cars on their way to school all winter and would not change it because a few people are far to dumb to operate a clock.
One, I don't have a calendar. Or a watch for that matter. Nor do I have television (just DVDs) and the only time I listen to the radio is on my way to school...so if I happen to hear it, then great.

And two, DST works for what...two weeks before it's dark in the mornings again anyway? It's a mighty crock of shit...especially when I was living in Inuvik and had 32 days of darkness for a month anyway, something that DST had absolutely no impact on.

It's kind of bizarre how clocks that have to be set manually are hanging on so persistently. There is a signal containing the precise universal time available in every populated corner of the earth, and it's GPS. All a clock needs to know is the local daylight-saving regime.

Yet people have to figure out what is "forward" and "back" on a clock, and remember to change it. Amazing numbers of us still favour clocks with hands that can't even distinguish between daytime and night-time.

Oh, I'm getting depressed now. Humans are fucktards.

Extra hour of sleep: when DST goes out of effect, you turn the clock back one our at midnight. Say you go to bed at 2200. You sleep 2200-0000, then your clock turns back, and you sleep from 2300 to 0000 again. Then you sleep from 0000-whatever time your lazy ass wakes up at on a regular day. If you are among the lucky few that can sleep until they naturally wake up on the weekend, it makes no difference; you would just wake up an hour earlier. To the rest of us, it means we get an extra hour of sleep.

*ahem*

At 200AM tomorrow morning, we are to set our clocks back an hour.

Clocks are only right twice a year.

The sun rising is the best measure of time, and using ntp and the cell-phone network, there is no reason we cannot make "standard time" correct by the sun every single day of the year.

No 1-hour lurch. Sunrise is 6 AM, and there's a little lurch at 3 AM local time. Every single day of the year.

I got this great idea while talking to a cat. And no, I'm not joking.

You do realize that there is a 4 minute gap inbetween each degree of latittude right?

But GPS isn't standard in anything. Not cars. Not cellphones. Not pants. They are expensive as sin too. That would quickly change in a world where everyone has to have one, but don't think there won't be massive gouging on the initial buy. Besides, we invented time zones to get rid of such inconveniences. Would you also suggest we give up our cars to go back to horse drawn carriage?

Absolutely not! Carriages were the start of that whole bad idea.
And horses are dangerous, far too spirited. Water buffalo FTW!

Yeah, now I'm just being silly. Something about the concept of time does that to me.

/me thinks DST/Summer Time is essentially useless nowadays.

You do realize that there is a 4 minute gap inbetween each degree of latittude right?

Well yes. If you read down a bit though, Posi points out a far more critical flaw in my idea. You mean "longitude" anyway.

Well yes. If you read down a bit though, Posi points out a far more critical flaw in my idea. You mean "longitude" anyway.

:headbang: yea that's what I ment. Tired over here :D

One, I don't have a calendar. Or a watch for that matter. Nor do I have television (just DVDs) and the only time I listen to the radio is on my way to school...so if I happen to hear it, then great.

And two, DST works for what...two weeks before it's dark in the mornings again anyway? It's a mighty crock of shit...especially when I was living in Inuvik and had 32 days of darkness for a month anyway, something that DST had absolutely no impact on.In Inuvik, yes it is a crock of shit. Very much so. A politician is simply retarded for suggesting it up there.

Down south (ie Vancouver, maybe even Calgary), it gets us an extra month and a half. Then multiply that by two as it is the same situation before we go into DST again.

The weird part is, that winter is regular time, but everyone thinks that summer is. DST creates more hours of daylight after work during the summer. Otherwise it is wasted when everyone is either asleep or getting ready for work.

It's kind of bizarre how clocks that have to be set manually are hanging on so persistently. There is a signal containing the precise universal time available in every populated corner of the earth, and it's GPS. All a clock needs to know is the local daylight-saving regime.

Yet people have to figure out what is "forward" and "back" on a clock, and remember to change it. Amazing numbers of us still favour clocks with hands that can't even distinguish between daytime and night-time.

Oh, I'm getting depressed now. Humans are fucktards.

It's called looking outside to see if there is sun or not.

Well, I'll speak in favour of Summer Time, while acknowledging that no-one will take me very seriously after my posts to the thread so far.

In the summer, when there are more hours of sunlight in the day, it makes perfect sense to start work early, leaving a bigger block of sunlight hours for doing healthy outdoor things in the afternoon.

In the winter, it makes perfect sense to start work later, because it's cold and dark when you get up, if you have to allow time to travel to work.

The only way in which that idea is now obsolete is that the 9-to-5 working day is not as universal as it used to be. Globalization (even the smaller scale of such, trade within one country which spans timezones) means that companies see a competetive advantage in a wider range of business hours. They are competing with businesses which open earlier or close later, in different timezones.

Now, some employers may allow their employees to come in earlier in the summer and later in the winter, but how to co-ordinate that between businesses? "Yeah, I can see how that would suit you, but it will cost me money because you won't be behind the counter when my competitor down the street opens shop." And employment being what it is, the business making money trumps the employee having a more useful block of sunlit recreation time.

If all businesses agreed to change business hours depending on the time of year, it wouldn't cost them a cent in total, employees would have healthier routines which allowed for more worthwhile recreation (eg going to the beach) and didn't involve getting up while it's still dark. Healthier and happier employees means more profit, so EVERYONE BENEFITS from working hours which at least partially track the rising of the sun.

Only that's not the sort of thing private enterprise is good at. Never has been, never will be. Co-operation for mutual benefit is in the remit of government.

So we have a socialist solution, applied by government for the benefit of everyone with enough nous to set their own timepiece. Businesses keep the same clock-hours year round, we just change the clock time.


Yeah, someone will probably destroy this analysis with a few words, but let it not be said that the working day isn't an important factor any more. If you look at the history of clocks, it's ALL about business and employment. That we let the nasty things rule our private lives as well is our own stupid fault.

And my own preference? Two hours of daylight saving, an hour forward in summer, an hour back in winter, and noon set to when the sun is at its zenith for the other two seasons. Oh, and equal length seasons centred around the equinoxes and solstices.

*stands back from post to avoid incoming*

It's called looking outside to see if there is sun or not.

So I point out a failing of analogue clocks which is obvious to any five-year-old, and that's your brilliant refutation?

Fucking brilliant. Why not chuck out the clock and get a sundial?

So I point out a failing of analogue clocks which is obvious to any five-year-old, and that's your brilliant refutation?

Fucking brilliant. Why not chuck out the clock and get a sundial?

who needs time anyway? just get up when you want to and do what you want when you want.

who needs time anyway? just get up when you want to and do what you want when you want.

We call that "Indian time" :D

who needs time anyway? just get up when you want to and do what you want when you want.

Well, I do! It's a major factor in my being as poor as a church mouse.

We call that "Indian time" :D
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/Tonito44/ThatsRacist.gif

lmao i must be thick or something .... how the heck does changing the time on c clock means a car will hit you???
How the heck do you people that believe this cope when you need to change clock batteries?? a delay of 20-30 seconds when the batteries are out must atleast equal a broken arm

(other than that i dont really care it doesnt make a real difference as the weather is so messed up (like months out of allignment) being forward or backwards an hour hardly effects normal peoples life
(by normal i mean people that arent dying because they changed the time on there clock lol)

Now, it's been linked to pedestrian deaths, not because of more or less daylight, but because of the switch itself. There is no benefit to DST/ST that isn't countered. Therefore, it should be repealed.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071103/ap_on_sc/time_change_accidents)

The deaths WERE DUE TO IT BEING DARKER AT NIGHT AFTER THE THE CHANGE.

If we just had it all year long, we'd have more light later in the day instead of it being light out when not many utilize it.

lmao i must be thick or something .... how the heck does changing the time on c clock means a car will hit you???

Let it be noted that YOU said that ... people are going about their business according to the clock. They are more likely to have an accident because their environment has suddenly become less familiar (ie, it is dark.)

Personally, I see this as the healthy functioning of natural selection. But then, I'm in a bastard mood.

Let it be noted that YOU said that ... people are going about their business according to the clock. They are more likely to have an accident because their environment has suddenly become less familiar (ie, it is dark.)

Personally, I see this as the healthy functioning of natural selection. But then, I'm in a bastard mood.


Lmao i got no probs with it being known i said that ... im not the idiot that doesnt know how to avoid being hit by a car :headbang: natural selection rocks :)


seriously if thats a reason for changing it it sucks .... you should also ban anything that you do differently each day ... say you work an hours over time then with whats said in the op's thing you wont be used to finshing then so are likly to get hit by a car (well 36 people are lmao) and gah if you go for lunch an hour early 36 people will die from being hit .... and thats not even changing the times on the clocks

stupidest reason ever for arguing for the clocks to not be changed


hey ditto on the mood thing :)

Let it be noted that YOU said that ... people are going about their business according to the clock. They are more likely to have an accident because their environment has suddenly become less familiar (ie, it is dark.)

Um they have dealt with it all of their lives. Just because some people are stupid is no cause to do away with something.

Personally, I see this as the healthy functioning of natural selection. But then, I'm in a bastard mood.

LOL!

lmao i must be thick or something .... how the heck does changing the time on c clock means a car will hit you???
How the heck do you people that believe this cope when you need to change clock batteries?? a delay of 20-30 seconds when the batteries are out must atleast equal a broken arm

(other than that i dont really care it doesnt make a real difference as the weather is so messed up (like months out of allignment) being forward or backwards an hour hardly effects normal peoples life
(by normal i mean people that arent dying because they changed the time on there clock lol)

Could you post in an understandable English?

The deaths WERE DUE TO IT BEING DARKER AT NIGHT AFTER THE THE CHANGE.

If we just had it all year long, we'd have more light later in the day instead of it being light out when not many utilize it.
The increase only occurs when we switch back.

Again, having it all year long makes no sense. If you have it all year long, you don't have it.

Again, having it all year long makes no sense. If you have it all year long, you don't have it.

Well, you have something, even if it isn't called "summer time."
Everybody does their scheduled things an hour later by the sun, all year 'round.

Actually, thinking about that I like it. Let's have six hours of daylight saving year round, so no-one is obliged to do diddley until the sun is "over the yardarm." And parties don't get shut down for noise until the sun comes up. Just like college, but for everybody! Yay!

Could you post in an understandable English?



with ease lol (though i do have bad grammer and spellings unfortunatly but its something i am trying to better)


lmao i must be thick or something! .... how the heck does changing the time on clock mean a car will hit you???
How the heck do you people that believe this cope?
When you need to change clock batteries?? a delay of 20-30 seconds when the batteries are out must atleast equal a broken arm!!

(other than that i dont really care. It doesnt make a real difference as the weather is so messed up (like months out of allignment) being forward or backwards an hour hardly effects normal peoples life.
(by normal, i mean people that arent dying because they changed the time on there clock lol)


that better?? (im guessing you really struggled to read what i said with just spaces and capitals and the odd letter wrong - and the other thing ive noticed is usually people on the losing side of an arguement resort to making the petty comments about spelling to save giving a real answer ;)

(and double checking seen as your are so good with spelling etc and like pointing out others errors .... petty is spelt P E T T Y isnt it?? ;))

with ease lol (though i do have bad grammer and spellings unfortunatly but its something i am trying to better)


lmao i must be thick or something! .... how the heck does changing the time on clock mean a car will hit you???
How the heck do you people that believe this cope?
When you need to change clock batteries?? a delay of 20-30 seconds when the batteries are out must atleast equal a broken arm!!

(other than that i dont really care. It doesnt make a real difference as the weather is so messed up (like months out of allignment) being forward or backwards an hour hardly effects normal peoples life.
(by normal, i mean people that arent dying because they changed the time on there clock lol)


that better?? (im guessing you really struggled to read what i said with just spaces and capitals and the odd letter wrong - and the other thing ive noticed is usually people on the losing side of an arguement resort to making the petty comments about spelling to save giving a real answer ;)

(and double checking seen as your are so good with spelling etc and like pointing out others errors .... petty is spelt P E T T Y isnt it?? ;))

Unless English isn't your native language, you have no excuse for not typing in a readable way. Even so, non-native speakers are quite able to type in a readable way.

Unless English isn't your native language, you have no excuse for not typing in a readable way. Even so, non-native speakers are quite able to type in a readable way.

I can read him quite easily. How come you are having so much trouble?

it's just another confusing thing in a whole string of everyday confusing thing that happen to me. but it has a bonus, the confusion only last maximum four days a year. fuck it, i don't care, i'm confused by the sight that greets me every time i open my eyes of a morning (or afternoon).

Sel Appa, did you bloody read the thing? It's the switching OFF OF DST that increases the danger, not switching TO DST! If anything this is an argument for keeping it on all the time.
I'm happy to see that I wasn't the only one to actually read the whole thing. :D

Or, instead of making a big deal out of the clocks changing, here's a wacky idea: if it's the pedestrian's fault that they got hit, we stop wringing our hands over it since their own stupidity killed them, and if it's the driver's fault that they hit the pedestrian, we throw the book at them as a deterrant to careless drivers so those f**kers will learn to pay attention. ZOMG personal responsibility! It'll never fly!

People wonder why the species seems to be getting stupider? It's because of all the padding and warning labels and other insane, inconvenient, and downright insulting concessions that the rest of us are forced to make in order to protect stupid, careless f**kers from themselves. Stop the madness and let natural selection take its course!

Uh, wow. What happened to 'left, right, left'?

Yeah, I have never really liked the concept of daylight savings time, either. It has always done nothing but confuse and surprise me and the benefits of shifting time an hour have always eluded me.

It should be repealed because people are stupid and can't remember what the new time is? Right...


Of course I now live in Arizona and this state doesn't have DST so... :D

Thank God we have no DST. It's confusing.

Actually...it is not confusing. It is easy! Spring Forward and Fall Back.

Thank God we have no DST. It's confusing.

Actually...it is not confusing. It is easy! Spring Forward and Fall Back.
We don't have spring. Neither do we have autumn.

I despise summer time, because I want my afternoons as brief as possible so that the night can begin. Stupid sun-lovers and their damned clock-manipulations.

I despise summer time, because I want my afternoons as brief as possible so that the night can begin. Stupid sun-lovers and their damned clock-manipulations.

Re, O Father, Bringer of Life: Smite this blasphemer and all he stands for.

Or, instead of making a big deal out of the clocks changing, here's a wacky idea: if it's the pedestrian's fault that they got hit, we stop wringing our hands over it since their own stupidity killed them, and if it's the driver's fault that they hit the pedestrian, we throw the book at them as a deterrant to careless drivers so those f**kers will learn to pay attention. ZOMG personal responsibility! It'll never fly!

People wonder why the species seems to be getting stupider? It's because of all the padding and warning labels and other insane, inconvenient, and downright insulting concessions that the rest of us are forced to make in order to protect stupid, careless f**kers from themselves. Stop the madness and let natural selection take its course!

Yeah seriously. We should ban like all tort law and go back to caveat emptor. Malpractice should only apply when the surgery is necessary. So if the doctor leaves chopsticks in you during a breast/penis enlargement, tough cookies.

Could you post in an understandable English?


The increase only occurs when we switch back.

Again, having it all year long makes no sense. If you have it all year long, you don't have it.

Yes, "switch back".... That is switch back to STANDARD TIME... Under standard time it is DARK at 6pm in the winter...

Unless English isn't your native language, you have no excuse for not typing in a readable way. Even so, non-native speakers are quite able to type in a readable way.

Yep i agree that some non native english speakers put my writing (and reading) to shame .... and i respect them for that! ... but the other side of that is i even respect the people who havent got english as a first language and have worse writing and reading than me as my reading and writing skills of any other language are virtually non existant .... if it takes a few read throughs thats cool with me ... theres no way i mention it unless i knew they wanted help improving it


I guess your likly to be one of the 36 that gets hit by a car if you cant adjust to reading a few errors like adjusting to the time change lol

Yes, "switch back".... That is switch back to STANDARD TIME... Under standard time it is DARK at 6pm in the winter...

Or earlier depending on latittude :D

Or earlier depending on latittude :D

Yep, go high enough and it's dark at 12 noon....

I wrote the following as a response/addition to a couple of posts, a number of hours ago, but NSG went a bit funny on me when I tried to post it, and didn't have enough time to correct it before going out for most of the day. I've not got the same conversational 'hooks' to hang it on, any more, but it does still have some relevance to some 'hanging' questions, so I thought I'd post it whole. I was going to edit it into a reply, but thought that would be more dishonest and, besides, I don't want to give NSG the chance to go funny on me again, so here it is verbatim. A bit long, but all my own work, for good or ill... ;)

I remember a study a few years ago about this sort of thing. Comparing the rate of change of accidents across the clock-changing divide revealed a blip in the trend that wasn't consistent with a similar period either side (wholly on daylight savings or 'normal' time), thus removing most of the "descent into shorter daylight hours" or even "suddenly inconveniently blinding early-morning sun" effect that could also be a negative factor, as well as the positive factors of people having temporarily been driving in half-light finding themselves in normal daylight or 'proper' darkness for which vehicle lights (and a sense of caution) are now fully useful.

The postulated theory were that with the change in clocks you got a 'mix' out on the roads between the people who were studiously clock-watching and set off at their (now shifted) chronological time and were meeting the bunch of people who were still inclined to be scheduled to the solar-cycle. In spring this latter group could include people whose biological clocks were taking a while to adjust and found themselves up to an hour late for meetings (and thus had a tendency to rush) and/or sleepy, and you can imagine the time-keeper's having problems at the latter end of the year having to get used to a sudden amount of solar glare on the roads, or similar, rather than gain experience with the slowly changing time of dawn.

Either way, you now might get someone rushing to work along a street where normally nobody else would be at that time of day[1], and meeting someone who adjusted better that they would never have met at any time outside the few days after a clock-change. Or so is one theoretical cause of the blip, anyway.

(I have half a memory that the autumnal change was in fact a lot more pronounced than the spring one, but it is a half-memory.)


As to the usefulness of DST, Daylight Savings essentially is there to make sure that the expanded daylight that exists in the mornings in the 'sunny' half of year (according to latitude, and n/a within the tropics, of course) doesn't go to waste on farmers and their cows[2] and 'puts' it at the end of the (extending) evenings where it's more useful for general workers who work asymmetrically around noon and would appreciate the lighter evenings for personal time.

OTOH, in the winter daylight is at a premium and you're likely already starting in the dark so you don't typically want to make it worse[3], so you might as well stick to the (region-wide version of the) solar clock.


Of course, people are people, so there's loads of different reasons to be pro or anti the clock-changes. Although on the subject of DSTisity, I believe that most (unaltered, non-DaylightSavings) time zones are, by dint of being calibrated for 'noon' at one longitude and spread across a width of longitudes, biased towards some degree of other of DST-like 'clock advancement', i.e. official time being ahead of the solar day. Again, probably due to the asynchronous distribution of the typical (non-agrarian) worker's hours of business, and the penchant for some free time in the evening.





[1] Unrelated to clock-changes, though not to this one principle of them, one holiday when I was young I was once knocked off my bike. The driver of the car, a commuter who been coming out of the junction concerned the same sort of time every day, had made an (understandable, but still technically negligent) shortcut in his assaying of the road that I was riding down, for on every prior occasion within living memory there would have been no kid on a bike coming along the road, at that time in the morning. It happens. The holiday turned into a driving holiday, after appropriate hospital treatment and parents went back to get the car to allow us to trace the (embellished) route we had previously planned to ride.

[2] There's the (possibly apocryphal) story of the farmer challenging daylight savings by saying that his cows know to start walking towards the milking sheds at dawn, and how if the clocks were changed they'd get all confused and some would be an hour early/later than the others. ;)

[3] I believe that during WW2, here in Britain we actually 'kept' DST over a winter and then 'doubled' it in the summer as some sort of war-effort in saving resources, before taking the opportunity to revert at some future date by not re-doubling in spring and 'dropping back' to GMT as normal in the autumn, but I haven't got the details at hand and I may misremember. I think it was an experiment to save fuel use by reducing the darker evenings all round the year (whereas people weren't expected to build up their fires and warm the house in the morning 'just' for the rush to get ready for work).

theres that film out now ..30 days of night ... its based somewhere up in alaska if i remember right they have a whole month of darkenss every year :eek: ... changing the clock there wont make much difference :D:D:D

This seems like a real stretch...maybe it's just due to the fact that the days are getting shorter overall rather than because of the hour change.

What about repealing short days? That would be awesome.

What about repealing short days? That would be awesome.

That would be the ultimate proof of governments disconnection with reality; superseded only by the repeal of the Law of Gravity.

I guess your likly to be one of the 36 that gets hit by a car if you cant adjust to reading a few errors like adjusting to the time change lol

If people keep telling you that your posts are hard to read (I find them a bit so) surely you can see how it's in your own interest to fix them?

Assuming you actually want people to read and understand your posts, the simplest solution is just to break your sentences into shorter sections, using PUNCTUATION.

"If you find it difficult to adjust to a few errors in what you read, you are probably one of those people who finds it difficult to adjust to the time change. You will probably get hit by a car."

You may not agree, but to me that seems a clearer way (tho not shorter) of saying what I quoted above.

You may not have much incentive to make your posts clearer. I doubt you can defend their content.

*snip essay*

[2] There's the (possibly apocryphal) story of the farmer challenging daylight savings by saying that his cows know to start walking towards the milking sheds at dawn, and how if the clocks were changed they'd get all confused and some would be an hour early/later than the others. ;)


I see the humour in that. But the farmer just milks the cows at the same time by the sun, and not getting the cows confused is his/her responsibility. A more realistic problem is the farmer getting their kids to school on time: the farm continues to work by the sun, but the school does not.

I believe milking times change somewhat throughout the year, though the only farm work I've ever done was fruit-picking.

That would be the ultimate proof of governments disconnection with reality; superseded only by the repeal of the Law of Gravity.

Which I'm in favour of, btw. Obviously the sun and earth would need to still have gravity because it's what holds them together and in mutual orbit.

But I don't see why free citizens should have to put up with a silly law that was only made for really big things. A repeal would have to be phased in, to give people time to tether their children and pets, and we might want to consider a safety-net. But it is definitely time to start seriously considering a repeal of the Law of Gravity as it applies to individuals.

We could entirely give up on surface transportation. People wouldn't get hit by cars AT ALL, kids could play Qidditch for real, and the Mars mission would be a snap.

I see the humour in that. But the farmer just milks the cows at the same time by the sun, and not getting the cows confused is his/her responsibility. A more realistic problem is the farmer getting their kids to school on time: the farm continues to work by the sun, but the school does not.

I believe milking times change somewhat throughout the year, though the only farm work I've ever done was fruit-picking.

I probably told it wrong. The idea is that cows don't care and, moreover, don't even use watches. If they traditionally walk towards the milking sheds at dawn, they walk towards them at dawn, regardless of whether that would be 7AM, 6AM or 5AM. It was the farmer who would need to adjust, and that would not too difficult, for it's just reversing exactly the change that the clock-change makes (getting up an hour earlier/later by the clock that has been made to show an hour later/earlier) and preceding the usual traversal of dawn across the clock exactly as before.

Still, there's parallel to the "You stole twenty-one days of life from us!" argument when they changed the calendar. :)

(And yes, the bit you snipped was a little bit of an essay. Too long. Far too long.)

I probably told it wrong. The idea is that cows don't care and, moreover, don't even use watches. If they traditionally walk towards the milking sheds at dawn, they walk towards them at dawn, regardless of whether that would be 7AM, 6AM or 5AM.

We used to tell those kinds of jokes about Queenslanders (I'm a Welsher). They don't have daylight saving up there, and truly it does have something to do with the rural vote. But to be fair, their state is entirely in the tropic of Capricorn so daylight saving makes no sense for them.

It was the farmer who would need to adjust, and that would not too difficult, for it's just reversing exactly the change that the clock-change makes (getting up an hour earlier/later by the clock that has been made to show an hour later/earlier) and preceding the usual traversal of dawn across the clock exactly as before.

Depends on the farmer I guess. If they're old-school, they get up with the first sparrows and work until it's dark. If they're a modern agribusiness type, it's probably more like reprogramming the milking machine and trying to get technical support on the phone while the cows all stand around complaining!

I've heard that dairy cows can actually suffer injury if they're not milked.

(And yes, the bit you snipped was a little bit of an essay. Too long. Far too long.)

It was an OK read. I just don't like to clutter the page with stuff I'm not really replying to.

Personally, I think we should just split the difference and be done. In other words fall back by thirty minutes in autumn and be done with the whole thing forever.

But it's quite clear that this is just another way of the government subtly reinforcing to us who actually is boss. So that sort of sensible plan will never be put into action.

Which I'm in favour of, btw. Obviously the sun and earth would need to still have gravity because it's what holds them together and in mutual orbit.

But I don't see why free citizens should have to put up with a silly law that was only made for really big things. A repeal would have to be phased in, to give people time to tether their children and pets, and we might want to consider a safety-net. But it is definitely time to start seriously considering a repeal of the Law of Gravity as it applies to individuals.

We could entirely give up on surface transportation. People wouldn't get hit by cars AT ALL, kids could play Qidditch for real, and the Mars mission would be a snap.

Yes, repealing Gravitational Law will save countless lives... We can also repeal the Conservation of Momentum and the First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics.

Yes, repealing Gravitational Law will save countless lives... We can also repeal the Conservation of Momentum and the First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics.

We are doing important work here! The entire universe will thank us for our universal solutions to traffic problems!

Uh, unless we break the future and it isn't there after all.

But never mind! Onwards, with progress! (er, for progress? meh ...)


Free energy is indeed a very desirable thing. We must deregulate the mass/energy market! Repeal the First Law of Thermodynamics!

Onwards to the Second Big Bang!!!!

We are doing important work here! The entire universe will thank us for our universal solutions to traffic problems!

Uh, unless we break the future and it isn't there after all.

But never mind! Onwards, with progress! (er, for progress? meh ...)


Free energy is indeed a very desirable thing. We must deregulate the mass/energy market! Repeal the First Law of Thermodynamics!

Onwards to the Second Big Bang!!!!

Also we should shift to DC current for our households; it's absurd that the Electric supply industry gets to keep selling us the same electrons OVER and OVER again.... We bought those electrons! They are ours now! Stop selling them to us all over again.

Also we should shift to DC current for our households; it's absurd that the Electric supply industry gets to keep selling us the same electrons OVER and OVER again.... We bought those electrons! They are ours now! Stop selling them to us all over again.

Edison was a huge fan of DC. And he was no idiot.

But the wires thing, that's not really very imaginative. It's just a copy of water pipes and sewage lines, and it's a major factor in how terribly centralized human society is. Civilization, y'know. Living in cities.

The future is wireless!

Got any ideas how we get our electrons? The ones we paid for?

Meh, I always thought of DST as some sort of anachronism. Just pick one timezone(dependent on E/W location in the US and other horizontally large nations) and stick to it. My own country has been 1 hour ahead of its "correct" time since creation.

Meh, I always thought of DST as some sort of anachronism. Just pick one timezone(dependent on E/W location in the US and other horizontally large nations) and stick to it. My own country has been 1 hour ahead of its "correct" time since creation.

Iceland?

Now, it's been linked to pedestrian deaths, not because of more or less daylight, but because of the switch itself. There is no benefit to DST/ST that isn't countered. Therefore, it should be repealed.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071103/ap_on_sc/time_change_accidents)

If 'number of auto related fatalities' is our measure for everything, then banning cars should be WAY higher on the list than banning DST.

Yes, that's right. It's not a one-response issue. There are other ramifications. For example, there is a visible drop in energy consumption at each transition. Simply put - people use less power when they don't have the TV and the lights on for an extra hour.

Yeah, it's just stupid at this point.

I need one of those dawn simulator lamps so I'm not all screwed up in the morning and it's dark. :(

Yeah, it's just stupid at this point.

I need one of those dawn simulator lamps so I'm not all screwed up in the morning and it's dark. :(

A "simulator lamp"? Screw that, just sleep in.

wrt to your sig, you'll get the discount at Subway if you take two bearded guys with a big bright light and something that looks like a boom mic.

one hour is exactly one hour long, whatever the sun is doing, whatever we choose to call it. if people weren't idiots they wouldn't want to, nor to have everyone else, work the same days and hours as each other anyway.

and if all the days and hours we distributed arround the clock evenly, we wouldn't have rush hours and the need for capacity that sits idle most of the time and is less then adiquite when needed.

the only thing 'savings time' saves, is idiots who run bussinessess from having to think about having people come in at different times.

we don't even need time zones really, or am and pm. ALL time COULD BE "zulu" time, and the world would get along just fine.

so effing what if the sun rose and set at hours that currently would seem odd, because of where in the world you were living.

and resetting clocks twice a year. that is just a bunch of insane nonsense.

the only reason i ever care what time it is, is to know when the bussess are running so if i go somewhere i can get home without having to walk.

or of course when i'm working somewhere for someone else, to get there when they say it would be useful for me to do so.

and even that, if it weren't for a bunch of other goofyness, everyone who works in transportation would work shifts, and it would be available 24-7-365

=^^=
.../\...

If 'number of auto related fatalities' is our measure for everything, then banning cars should be WAY higher on the list than banning DST.

Of course, banning cars is up there with "enforced atheism" and "universal welfare" on the whack agenda.

The smart solution achieves the same end: come up with something better. Obsolete the nasty things.

Yes, that's right. It's not a one-response issue. There are other ramifications. For example, there is a visible drop in energy consumption at each transition. Simply put - people use less power when they don't have the TV and the lights on for an extra hour.

So, let's obsolete Daylight Saving time. With something better.

If people keep telling you that your posts are hard to read (I find them a bit so) surely you can see how it's in your own interest to fix them?

Assuming you actually want people to read and understand your posts, the simplest solution is just to break your sentences into shorter sections, using PUNCTUATION.

"If you find it difficult to adjust to a few errors in what you read, you are probably one of those people who finds it difficult to adjust to the time change. You will probably get hit by a car."

You may not agree, but to me that seems a clearer way (tho not shorter) of saying what I quoted above.

You may not have much incentive to make your posts clearer. I doubt you can defend their content.


Nope i agree ... me adding punctuation would make it alot easier for all to read.
As to rewording the sentence like you did .... your sentence reads to me like the kids back when i went to school who were in the top sets/classes etc for english wrote stuff ... i could never word stuff like them and nor it appears can i now. (thats meant as praise by the way as your sentence does read better)
Needless to say yep your way looks 150% better written the way you wrote than mine did ... unfortunatly i was never really able to grasp english in school let alone online. So the punctuation i can maybe do something about and maybe the spelling ... but as for moving the sentences around that is one skill i never seemed able to grasp. Sorry

(on the plus side atleast you could read mine and didnt just flame but tried to explain so get my thanks ... Sel just flamed me ... which is worse flaming someone for having it or having bad spelling?)

(i did see an interesting thing in a forum the other day that as long as you get the first and last letter right the human brain automatically puts the letters in the middle into the right order .... so spelling shouldnt be to much of an issue (thank god lol)

(and as far as i can remeber you are only the 4th person to point out my poor english online (Sel being the third, and the other two were also people that had made stupid posts i replied to who could say nothing back apart from the flame me persoanlly)

Guess i will have to look for an online grammer checker later lol but cheers for not being a total ass pointing it out my crap english :)

Cameroi, on this subject I welcome your insights. I'm guessing you are one who savours seasons and other natural cycles of time.

one hour is exactly one hour long, whatever the sun is doing, whatever we choose to call it. if people weren't idiots they wouldn't want to, nor to have everyone else, work the same days and hours as each other anyway.

An hour is one of the old measurements, like pounds or feet. Designed to be divided, not multiplied as the metric measurements are.

12 can be divided by 2, 3, 4 and 6.
24 can be divided by 2, 3, 4, 6, 8 and 12.

A "Day" (day + night) is a natural measurement of time. It has existed almost unchanged from when there were no humans, no mammals ... no life.

Even the week, 7 days, which many take for granted, is a natural cycle. One-fourth of the cycle of the moon. 4 x 7 = 28.
By the moon, we could have 2 x 14-day weeks, 4 x 7-day weeks, or 7 x 4-day weeks.
We made the only sensible choice, long long ago.

Fertile women have a 28-day cycle, it synchronizes to the moon very readily when they are even trivially exposed to nature.

Capitalism messes with that at its peril.
Even in these days, business has not conquered the "week."

I know you know these things. Few others will read it I'm sure, but it's there for them. I can do no more.

and if all the days and hours we distributed arround the clock evenly, we wouldn't have rush hours and the need for capacity that sits idle most of the time and is less then adiquite when needed.

I am horrified, my sibling! Shush, the capitalists will hear.

the only thing 'savings time' saves, is idiots who run bussinessess from having to think about having people come in at different times.

we don't even need time zones really, or am and pm. ALL time COULD BE "zulu" time, and the world would get along just fine.

Time zones are a crazy thing. Two people a mile apart have a different time. It's a geographical arbitrary distinction, the exact physical equivalent of the temporal arbitrary distinction which so offends those who are confused by Daylight Saving Time.

Yes, we could use Zulu time, AKA Greenwich Mean Time. Yes, I agree with what you say next, we would get used to it quickly.

But I'm not happy with it. I'm not happy with anything to do with time, but there's no cure for that.

I'd rather that the sun rising should rule our days. In hot climes, the sun being high and making everything uncomfortably hot must also be accounted for, and in cold climes, avoiding the cold makes travel and work in the warmest hours sensible.

Sensible. Yes, we can warm and cool ourselves, yes we can light our environment and travel when it is dark. But in my gut I feel it is wrong to disregard the natural light, the natural warmth which suffices all wild creatures and strictly rules the life of plants.

For humans to be arrogantly self-reliant, to completely scorn what is offered there for free ... can only make us worse, magnify our hubris. We're perilously close to fucking everything as it is.

I don't think it is widely appreciated just how much of our cohesion, our sense of community, depends apon the monthly cycle of the moon. On women and their menstrual cycle. It's no great mystery, it's an obvious pattern that's right there in almost any posters life. I'll answer questions on it, but I don't claim to know anything but the bleeding obvious.

so effing what if the sun rose and set at hours that currently would seem odd, because of where in the world you were living.

and resetting clocks twice a year. that is just a bunch of insane nonsense.

It's not. It's a very clumsy attempt to make our rational, mechanical measurement of time conform to our planets very real and fundamental measurement of time.

the only reason i ever care what time it is, is to know when the buses are running so if i go somewhere i can get home without having to walk.

or of course when i'm working somewhere for someone else, to get there when they say it would be useful for me to do so.

Yes. Mutually agreed time is a socially cohesive custom.
It was much simpler before the telegraph and before travel at the speed of sunrise.
I love talking to people on the other side of the world. I love what trade has brought us to, a global community, and I look forward to where we take that, nested sets of community which are not just based on geographical location.
But it costs us simplicity, it costs us common sense as regards time. What we must call time now is a more artificial regime, which demands more of us each individually, that we should all feel we live in and on the same world.

and even that, if it weren't for a bunch of other goofyness, everyone who works in transportation would work shifts, and it would be available 24-7-365

I'm not fussed. When we get transportation right, it will be fully mechanized.

=^^=
.../\...

Dude, that is no way a cat.
I know, I drew it big on a sheet of paper and showed it to a cat. :D

*snip*

(on the plus side atleast you could read mine and didnt just flame but tried to explain so get my thanks ... Sel just flamed me ... which is worse flaming someone for having it or having bad spelling?)

Sel Appa says some very interesting things sometimes, but when he gets personal it's like being hugged by a fish.

(i did see an interesting thing in a forum the other day that as long as you get the first and last letter right the human brain automatically puts the letters in the middle into the right order .... so spelling shouldnt be to much of an issue (thank god lol)

I remember that. There's a passage with almost every word mis-spelled, but it's still easy to understand. I'll dig it up sometime.

(and as far as i can remeber you are only the 4th person to point out my poor english online (Sel being the third, and the other two were also people that had made stupid posts i replied to who could say nothing back apart from the flame me persoanlly)

I hope I never said your english was crap. It's not really. Really crap English seems to make sense but what the reader 'hears' is totally different from what the writer thought they meant.
Never use words you don't know the meaning of ... it causes huge confusion.

Hmm, I sometimes write stuff I can't understand the next day. I start a lot of sentences which don't work out, so I do them over.

There is some kind of trick to reading your own stuff as though it was just words from a book. Then looking for the bit that makes least sense, and fixing that. I don't think I can explain it, though.

Guess i will have to look for an online grammer checker later lol but cheers for not being a total ass pointing out my crap english :)

:)

There's a huge improvement already. The dot-dot-dot (...) is punctuation. Like commas it helps with understanding if not used too many times in one sentence.

As to the "online grammar checker" I don't use one. I have the spelling checker of Firefox turned on, but it keeps pointing out the same spelling mistakes so I'm not sure it's really teaching me anything.

<snip>
(i did see an interesting thing in a forum the other day that as long as you get the first and last letter right the human brain automatically puts the letters in the middle into the right order .... so spelling shouldnt be to much of an issue (thank god lol)
<snip>

I've seen that as well. I'm also afraid it's been debunked --- the example you saw was specially designed to work. Consider, for intnsace, this snceente. Fairly hard to read that, wasn't it? Eaeicllpsy long words, right? Your brain can do it to some degree, but in general, I'm afraid it doesn't work. There's still no excuse for incorrect spelling and grammar.

In fact, the biggest reason to use correct spelling, grammar, and punctuation is to help increase people's opinions of you. Because we can't see other members of the forum, you get rated on your opinions, how skilled you are at discussion, and your spelling and grammar. If you misspell regularly, and miss out punctuation, you'll be considered a 13 year old n00b.

I'm from Singapore, for whoever asked.

I would much rather everyone just works as and when they feel like it. Hell, I wish every home had an exercise bike(or several) that generated electricity to be stored and consumed. But you know the governments would outlaw them simply because they can't control/tax it.:upyours:

Of course, banning cars is up there with "enforced atheism" and "universal welfare" on the whack agenda.


You can't enforce Atheism. Universal Atheism would be a good idea though. As is 'universal welfare'.


So, let's obsolete Daylight Saving time. With something better.

Better? What is 'better'?

Simply changing the clock an hour twice a year enables us to fairly neatly overlap our mechanical adherence to schedules, with the actual rotation of the earth.

Changing the clock twice a year (and hourly increments at that, pretty simple really) just doesn't seem like that much work to me.

Maybe pedestrians should stop walking in front of cars?

I'm from Singapore, for whoever asked.

Not me. But best regards from Australia.

I would much rather everyone just works as and when they feel like it. Hell, I wish every home had an exercise bike(or several) that generated electricity to be stored and consumed. But you know the governments would outlaw them simply because they can't control/tax it.

It would help, but it's not a full energy solution. A fit man can generate about 200 Watts. Enough to run a laptop, and a few CF lights ... while pedalling.

Storage in batteries halves that, or worse.

And no, it's not banned. Build one yourself. (http://www.motherearthnews.com/DIY/1981-01-01/Cycle-Power.aspx)

Sel Appa says some very interesting things sometimes, but when he gets personal it's like being hugged by a fish.
COuld you give an example of interesting?

I've seen that as well. I'm also afraid it's been debunked --- the example you saw was specially designed to work. Consider, for intnsace, this snceente. Fairly hard to read that, wasn't it? Eaeicllpsy long words, right? Your brain can do it to some degree, but in general, I'm afraid it doesn't work. There's still no excuse for incorrect spelling and grammar.

In fact, the biggest reason to use correct spelling, grammar, and punctuation is to help increase people's opinions of you. Because we can't see other members of the forum, you get rated on your opinions, how skilled you are at discussion, and your spelling and grammar. If you misspell regularly, and miss out punctuation, you'll be considered a 13 year old n00b.

Actually, I was able to read that...

I think we should keep it, if only because I like commuting in the dark. Has a cool feel to it.

Maybe pedestrians should stop walking in front of cars?

Cars should learn to jump.

This is one of the beautiful things about bicycles. If I run a pedestrian down while riding my bike, I'm far more likely to be injured than they are. Broken leg for them, broken spine for me.

It's not that drivers are callous, but the physical danger to themselves of hitting other cars gets their attention a lot more. Of course, other cars are bigger and easier to see than cyclists or pedestrians.

(Grave'n, your post is harder. Reply coming.)

COuld you give an example of interesting?

Now you're just fishing for compliments. :D

I see I've found my way into your sig. :) So I must have guessed your gender right? Happy to edit it if not.

You can't enforce Atheism. Universal Atheism would be a good idea though. As is 'universal welfare'.



Better? What is 'better'?

'Better' is anything that given a choice, people prefer.

To save you the effort, I'll sink that myself. "Cars are better than bicycles. Even though the bicycle is cheaper and keeps the rider fit and doesn't generate even a hundredth the greenhouse gas a car does, cars are better because they are overwhelmingly preferred."

If we come up with something which does what a car does well, and does it better (physical isolation from strangers, flexibility of route, speed, capability to carry passengers for company, capability to carry half a ton of cargo) but overcomes some failings of same (expensive, dangerous, wasteful of energy, requires skills and responsibility to use) ... people will buy one of those instead when their old car packs it in.

"Dad, I want to go to Monica's place. It's her ninth birthday. Can I take the Kar?"
"Sure. Be back for dinner please. Kar, bob is going to monica's. He can go other some other place if monica's mom says so. OK?"
"Sure boss. Bob going to monica's and back. Monica's mom can send us some other place. Monica still has the same mom as last wednesday."

Kid goes into garage, gets in Kar. Kar goes to monica's place at 400 km/h in perfect safety. Kid gets out in monica's garage.

Dad goes out the back to potter with his antique car and dream of the old days when driving was exciting and you were allowed to do it yourself on a public road.

No need to force a choice on anyone until the adoption of Kars is like 90% and "only criminals drive cars."

So where's our smart solution for daylight savings? The existing system has actually been repealed in quite a few countries, I just saw in Wiki. Clearly some countries have decided that having none is better than one-step, dumb daylight-saving.

Simply changing the clock an hour twice a year enables us to fairly neatly overlap our mechanical adherence to schedules, with the actual rotation of the earth.

Well, it's not bad. But there are obvious problems with it.

Here's a picture from wikipedia. The top line is the sunrise, the bottom one sunset (it's labelled, but I make this point because I'm going to talk about what I think would make daylight saving better, and it's to do with that top line.):

Link instead then. Whatever. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Greenwich_GB_DaylightChart.png/300px-Greenwich_GB_DaylightChart.png)

My first suggestion (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13186700&postcount=33), the one which suddenly exploded while Posi was tinkering with it, was to take a ruler and draw that top line dead straight.

If you get up around dawn and get to school two hours later in the summer, it will be exactly the same in the winter. Lovely.

Clocks have to be reset every day. That needs a technological solution, but as I say, it's there already. GPS.

But I also want to get rid of timezones. Perhaps "microzones" which are a few minutes different from each other. Now my idea is getting really ... ugly. Unless you know just where you are, and just where your time is being measured, and which microzone something you are trying to co-ordinate with is in ... you might as well be squinting at the sun and going "meh, it's lunchtime ..."

I'd add another number to the time, the microzone number, and if the microzones were one minute wide, the time at one place could be converted to the time at another place by subtraction of the microzone number.

But this isn't really making things simpler. There's a lot of people out there, apparently, who need written instructions in front of them in order to reset their clocks correctly for the Summer Time we have already. I don't think they're going to like my idea.

The usual response to "excuse me, can you tell me the time?" would become "fuck you buddy, do I look like Einstein?" and people would start throwing themselves in front of cars because it's quicker than trying to catch a bus.

So, that's what I mean by "better." Worse, far worse. What do you mean by better?

Changing the clock twice a year (and hourly increments at that, pretty simple really) just doesn't seem like that much work to me.

Four times a year, hourly increments, would make an flatter dawn curve, above some latitude. I tried to draw nice maps for the different latitudes (north-ness for anyone who finds lat and long confusing) but I screwed them up somehow.

What is appropriate for 51 degrees North (the chart up there, for Greenwich) is utterly cockeyed at the equator. It makes things WORSE not better. As is shown in this map, also from Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:DaylightSaving-World-Subdivisions.png

...equatorial countries which presumably adopted DST because it was modern and scientific have repealed it in droves because the benefits are questionable when there's plenty of sunlight anyway. It's still used in temperate zones.

I'd rather have the one-hour DST I have now, than have none. I'm at 33 degrees South. Even just 500 km north of here, I didn't like it so much.

So there's no one right answer for everybody. A better system would make clock time and sun time harmonize for everyone everywhere.

'Better' is anything that given a choice, people prefer.

To save you the effort, I'll sink that myself. "Cars are better than bicycles. Even though the bicycle is cheaper and keeps the rider fit and doesn't generate even a hundredth the greenhouse gas a car does, cars are better because they are overwhelmingly preferred."

If we come up with something which does what a car does well, and does it better (physical isolation from strangers, flexibility of route, speed, capability to carry passengers for company, capability to carry half a ton of cargo) but overcomes some failings of same (expensive, dangerous, wasteful of energy, requires skills and responsibility to use) ... people will buy one of those instead when their old car packs it in.

"Dad, I want to go to Monica's place. It's her ninth birthday. Can I take the Kar?"
"Sure. Be back for dinner please. Kar, bob is going to monica's. He can go other some other place if monica's mom says so. OK?"
"Sure boss. Bob going to monica's and back. Monica's mom can send us some other place. Monica still has the same mom as last wednesday."

Kid goes into garage, gets in Kar. Kar goes to monica's place at 400 km/h in perfect safety. Kid gets out in monica's garage.

Dad goes out the back to potter with his antique car and dream of the old days when driving was exciting and you were allowed to do it yourself on a public road.

No need to force a choice on anyone until the adoption of Kars is like 90% and "only criminals drive cars."

So where's our smart solution for daylight savings? The existing system has actually been repealed in quite a few countries, I just saw in Wiki. Clearly some countries have decided that having none is better than one-step, dumb daylight-saving.



Well, it's not bad. But there are obvious problems with it.

Here's a picture from wikipedia. The top line is the sunrise, the bottom one sunset (it's labelled, but I make this point because I'm going to talk about what I think would make daylight saving better, and it's to do with that top line.):

Link instead then. Whatever. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Greenwich_GB_DaylightChart.png/300px-Greenwich_GB_DaylightChart.png)

My first suggestion (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13186700&postcount=33), the one which suddenly exploded while Posi was tinkering with it, was to take a ruler and draw that top line dead straight.

If you get up around dawn and get to school two hours later in the summer, it will be exactly the same in the winter. Lovely.

Clocks have to be reset every day. That needs a technological solution, but as I say, it's there already. GPS.

But I also want to get rid of timezones. Perhaps "microzones" which are a few minutes different from each other. Now my idea is getting really ... ugly. Unless you know just where you are, and just where your time is being measured, and which microzone something you are trying to co-ordinate with is in ... you might as well be squinting at the sun and going "meh, it's lunchtime ..."

I'd add another number to the time, the microzone number, and if the microzones were one minute wide, the time at one place could be converted to the time at another place by subtraction of the microzone number.

But this isn't really making things simpler. There's a lot of people out there, apparently, who need written instructions in front of them in order to reset their clocks correctly for the Summer Time we have already. I don't think they're going to like my idea.

The usual response to "excuse me, can you tell me the time?" would become "fuck you buddy, do I look like Einstein?" and people would start throwing themselves in front of cars because it's quicker than trying to catch a bus.

So, that's what I mean by "better." Worse, far worse. What do you mean by better?



Four times a year, hourly increments, would make an flatter dawn curve, above some latitude. I tried to draw nice maps for the different latitudes (north-ness for anyone who finds lat and long confusing) but I screwed them up somehow.

What is appropriate for 51 degrees North (the chart up there, for Greenwich) is utterly cockeyed at the equator. It makes things WORSE not better. As is shown in this map, also from Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:DaylightSaving-World-Subdivisions.png

...equatorial countries which presumably adopted DST because it was modern and scientific have repealed it in droves because the benefits are questionable when there's plenty of sunlight anyway. It's still used in temperate zones.

I'd rather have the one-hour DST I have now, than have none. I'm at 33 degrees South. Even just 500 km north of here, I didn't like it so much.

So there's no one right answer for everybody. A better system would make clock time and sun time harmonize for everyone everywhere.

The obvious problem with your microzones is that people move around. The obvious problem with the idea of a universal hamonised time zone, is that we have decided to annoyingly live all over the damn planet. No one said DST was perfect, but it works almost really well, almost all the time. That's got to be better than wishing for a Unified Theory of Everything (Timezone Edition).

The obvious problem with your microzones is that people move around. The obvious problem with the idea of a universal hamonised time zone, is that we have decided to annoyingly live all over the damn planet. No one said DST was perfect, but it works almost really well, almost all the time. That's got to be better than wishing for a Unified Theory of Everything (Timezone Edition).

Problem? What problem? There's ... hey! :mad:

TWO problems? GRAAGGH! :mad: :upyours:

We'll see about that!!


Ban east / west travel. All citizens to stay in their microzone of birth.
Ban timespeech -- the irresponsible issuing of confusing "time" information in the media.
Ban time profiteering by the introduction of an obligatory random offset for all opening /closing times, appointments, deadlines, etc.


Now we're getting somewhere. We'll have this planet straightened out in ...

Hey! That's an even better idea! Straighten the planet up, do away with the stinking seasons as well!

Problem? What problem? There's ... hey! :mad:

TWO problems? GRAAGGH! :mad: :upyours:

We'll see about that!!


Ban east / west travel. All citizens to stay in their microzone of birth.
Ban timespeech -- the irresponsible issuing of confusing "time" information in the media.
Ban time profiteering by the introduction of an obligatory random offset for all opening /closing times, appointments, deadlines, etc.


Now we're getting somewhere. We'll have this planet straightened out in ...

Hey! That's an even better idea! Straighten the planet up, do away with the stinking seasons as well!

I hear the sound of top-secret black-ops government rofflecopters...

I hear the sound of top-secret black-ops government rofflecopters...

Yeah, how do they do that?
It sounds like maniacal laughter, but when I go outside I can't see anything there?

Yeah, how do they do that?
It sounds like maniacal laughter, but when I go outside I can't see anything there?

And the laughing stops too, right? That very minute...?

I think I have an answer... :D

And the laughing stops too, right? That very minute...?

I think I have an answer... :D

You're one of THEM!
Tell me anyway.

Cheers noble :D


COuld you give an example of interesting?

Im only newish here, but the best post ive seen (though i didnt comment as id read some other posts by you so wasnt sure how you meant it) was in the Kurdistan thread. It was only about 2 lines about Palastine wanting to be an offical state but them not wanting the same for Kurdistan (pointed out the error and two sides of the situation brilliantly)


(But... maybe your best post ever was the one in this thread ... has got me typing slower and making more efforts with my posts. :D (Big thanks to you and Noble!))


Still votes for not changing the DST though :P
(but only becuase ive not read an arguement for changing it that makes sense in my eyes) (and i friggin hate the clocks changing as im usually out when it happens and the clubs close an hour early the gits lol)

Cheers noble :D

If you absolutely insist on mis-spelling MY NAME, please go with Nigel.

I chose "Nobel" because "Nobel-Prize-Winning Hobos" was made of lose.
I wanted a nation which only did education. Everything else was up to the citizens.
First day in, I found NSG.

I've since discovered that Alfred Nobel wasn't that nice a guy ... but hey, maybe it fits after all.

Like this:

"Hey, I've got this great idea.
"Yeah, this is going well.
"Wow, I'm gonna be rich!
"Wups, I just killed a million people and it hasn't stopped yet ...
"Is there anything I can do to make up for this terrible thing called my life?"

If you have no idea what I'm talking about ... google or Wikipedia "Alfred Nobel"

If you still have no idea what I'm talking about ... that would be because the analogy above refers to me and my "posting career" on NSG.

I'm quite insane, and my "posting career" is completely out of my control. Just so you know.

Im only newish here, but the best post ive seen (though i didnt comment as id read some other posts by you so wasnt sure how you meant it) was in the Kurdistan thread. It was only about 2 lines about Palastine wanting to be an offical state but them not wanting the same for Kurdistan (pointed out the error and two sides of the situation brilliantly)

Good. I don't remember if it was I who wrote that (I think not) but yay, I'm pleased that something you wred here made a lasting impression.

That you read and understand is more important, than that you write nicely and are easily understood. What you say may enlighten someone else, but what you read and understand will enlighten you, enrich your own thinking and inform your real-world decisions.

What your English teachers did to you is a disgrace. And never mind the kids who wrote so nicely. Never tell yourself "I can't do that." Read what you want to read, think for yourself ... where that can take you no words can tell.

EDIT: I NOTICE NOW that you were replying to Sel Appa. I leave the following in to demonstrate that I make mistakes. BIG mistakes.

Oh, and because I spent two hours writing it. I leave it there as testimony to my ego, my self-obsession, and my beautiful writing style.

I'm no student of Middle Eastern affairs. I know what I read in the newspaper (I mostly read the Sydney Morning Herald, it's OK but not a great paper like the Guardian or the New York Times. Most of the World news is from AAP or the Guardian), and what posters here link to. If their post is persausive but contains things I'm not familiar with, I'll look at the link.

(Tabbed browsing is a must. Forward and back buttons are VCR technology in the age of media-players. A browser without tabs is like a one-station radio, utterly obsolete)

My (not very well-informed) opinion on Kurdistan is this: a whole lot of Kurds live in Turkey, near the border with Iraq. Turkey would be better off with smaller borders and a small but stable Kurdistan to their south, than defending their border with Iraq by intervening over that border.

Larger borders (ie invading the Kurdish north of Iraq) are not in Turkey's interests. Yes, they look bigger, yes their government takes more taxes, but they have a rebel province, like Chechnya for the Russians or the occupied territories for the Israelis.

Don't take the bait, Turkey. Do the hard thing, give up some land to make an independent Kurdistan between you and Iraq. Better a grateful stranger than a rebellious slave. Ill-informed, lazy Hobos to proud, democratic Turkey, OUT.

Long rave from someone who doesn't know much. Don't do that, SKW.

In fact, the pertinent point of what I replied to was "about two lines."

Don't waffle, don't justify a simple opinion with examples or parallels. Say what you think in ONE OR TWO LINES.

You will be wred by far more people if you keep it short.

I am certain that beyond fifty words, most people here only read a post if it is: (a) a reply to them, (b) from a poster they have been reading just above, and the poster is 'on the spot,' under attack, or (c) it is insanely funny all the way through. Or (d), it's their favourite poster. Or (e, joke option) they wrote it themselves.

I'm a huge fan of AnarchyeL, but reading a thread she/he posts to takes an hour or more, even just reading AL's and skimming the rest. Sometimes I look at the vast expanses of text, and just bookmark it.

Some of the posters here are good. They read the posts of others with great acuity, and hold in their minds many different positions while not getting them confused or divided into 'camps' or sides, they keep a focus on what they have themselves been talking about, know when to let the subject change, and always always post to inform or persuade. Yet they still manage to "talk" to others, to respond to them in their own terms. I want to be like them, even though I keep "flying off the handle" and hiding behind my humour.

I love those posters so well, I will not name them. The pantheon keeps changing, anyway.

Heh, it changes day to day. Some posters are more consistent than others. There are days I really should not have posted at all, and that goes for a lot of my favourite posters too. It hurts to see a good poster having a bad day.

I have a lot of bad days. I consider it a favour when a poster I recognize gives me a hint (that I get, of course) that it is time to shut up. If they say it right, I can see just what I'm doing wrong without having my face rubbed in it publicly. "They also serve who only stand and wait."

In fact, I'll end this insanely long discourse with that quote, once more:
"They also serve who only stand and wait." It's from Milton, and you don't want to go there unless you really have a lot of time on your hands.

I don't have MSN or any of that new-fangled iron-bangled tort-wrangled nonsense. But I read my NS Telegrams every day! Horray for the telegraph! Onwards to the Turd International! Heh, let's see who replies only to the last paragraph! Hehe!

Maybe pedestrians should stop walking in front of cars?
Don't be ridiculous
Problem? What problem? There's ... hey! :mad:

TWO problems? GRAAGGH! :mad: :upyours:

We'll see about that!!


Ban east / west travel. All citizens to stay in their microzone of birth.
Ban timespeech -- the irresponsible issuing of confusing "time" information in the media.
Ban time profiteering by the introduction of an obligatory random offset for all opening /closing times, appointments, deadlines, etc.


Now we're getting somewhere. We'll have this planet straightened out in ...

Hey! That's an even better idea! Straighten the planet up, do away with the stinking seasons as well!

Globalise time! From now on the time will always be half an hour after lunch! Take that, lazy workers.

Yeah, Sel, you make some great posts but you can also be a bore and a pest.

I tell you this because someone really should have told me. Still can tell me, when I'm boring or pestilential. I read my TG's.

Look at your own posts. The ones that make you wince, which you look away from before finishing: these are pestilence.

The ones that you read right through, then start over to try to get the point: these are boring.

Among the others are some gems.

If this post seems bitter, 'tis because I envy you. Not for your youth, that bright but untested kite, but for something related, a lightness or levity I never had. You move easily, a sign of health in any creature.

Don't forget I'm an Aussie. Sentimental statements like the above are usually a sign one of us is about to vomit beer and a half-chewed meat pie on your hired tuxedo!

Again, having it all year long makes no sense. If you have it all year long, you don't have it.

yes you do - all year long. by definition.

...a lightness or levity I never had. You move easily, a sign of health in any creature.


Nonsense. Your quick responses to the rofflecoptor insurgency suggest you are trying to hide your light(-ness and levity, perhaps) under a bushel.

yes you do - all year long. by definition.

Don't define character and future simultaneously.

And, by what definition? Sources, please!

Don't define character and future simultaneously.

And, by what definition? Sources, please!

Well DST is when the clocks are set back an hour, in order to save time. DST could be all year round if the clocks were set back an hour and then enver set forward.

Firstly, I am deeply alarmed that something like 15 minutes elapsed between the post you, Iffy (you right with that, mate?) made and my insane post ... above it ... er, not elapsed, but y'know, the other way 'round.

I think I might have been asleep. But I don't remember.

Don't be ridiculous

Delicately put. I found it ridiculouse too!

But one must make allowances. Pedestrians are wild animals, not subject to stupid road rules, which are there to tame the domesticated animals in cars.

I think it was a corollary of the Three Laws of Robotics, or summin.

Globalise time! From now on the time will always be half an hour after lunch! Take that, lazy workers.

You have to take into account cultural differences, though. "Lunch" is not the same thing to all people.

For me, it's "when I'm hungry and my gut is acting up from too much morning coffee."

YMMV.

My life is potentially lengthened by summertime; since I am born in october I will have gained an hour if I die in the winter. Sadly those born during wintertime will lose an hour if they die in summer.

Firstly, I am deeply alarmed that something like 15 minutes elapsed between the post you, Iffy (you right with that, mate?) made and my insane post ... above it ... er, not elapsed, but y'know, the other way 'round.

I think I might have been asleep. But I don't remember.
I blame time.



Delicately put. I found it ridiculouse too!

But one must make allowances. Pedestrians are wild animals, not subject to stupid road rules, which are there to tame the domesticated animals in cars.

I think it was a corollary of the Three Laws of Robotics, or summin.
Yeah, there was something in there abour car rules being for cars, not people.



You have to take into account cultural differences, though. "Lunch" is not the same thing to all people.

For me, it's "when I'm hungry and my gut is acting up from too much morning coffee."

YMMV.

The point is that lunch is over, so get back to work you damned hippies!

Well DST is when the clocks are set back an hour, in order to save time. DST could be all year round if the clocks were set back an hour and then enver set forward.

Rockin! Now we'r thinking some harcore clock-smashin fashist-bashin inchlechual ... ere 'scuse me

*takes garden-fertilizing break*

... stuff. Like I was saying:

STICK IT TO THE MAN! Father Time, up your arse, you fffpch-ing FASCIST CPFT!"

We'll see him reight, mate. Just you see!"

Rockin! Now we'r thinking some harcore clock-smashin fashist-bashin inchlechual ... ere 'scuse me

*takes garden-fertilizing break*

... stuff. Like I was saying:

STICK IT TO THE MAN! Father Time, up your arse, you fffpch-ing FASCIST CPFT!"

We'll see him reight, mate. Just you see!"

Father Time is clearly a worse version of Hitler. After all, the Third Reich was only going to last 1000 years. Father Time's evil reign will last for all time!

My life is potentially lengthened by summertime; since I am born in october I will have gained an hour if I die in the winter. Sadly those born during wintertime will lose an hour if they die in summer.

I'm pretty sure you posted that to the wrong thread.

We are talking sweet reason here, only slightly leavened with common sense.

Your chronological accountancy is not welcome here. Or probably anywhere.

Oh hell, I'm feeling generous...

*shoves plastic hourglass up PU's rectum*

Father Time is clearly a worse version of Hitler. After all, the Third Reich was only going to last 1000 years. Father Time's evil reign will last for all time!

The "Third Reich" was proof enough that Hitler couldn't count.

The whole sad thing could have been averted by a decent tertiary education scheme in the Weimar Republic.

(Oh fuck, that accidentally made snese!)

Yeah, that was rather over-the-line. Sorry PU.

*retrieves hourglass, licks it clean to show contrition*

Father Time is clearly a worse version of Hitler. After all, the Third Reich was only going to last 1000 years. Father Time's evil reign will last for all time!

Wups. Missed the point again.

(you know, I really wonder what's with this "miss the point" thing? A point is one-dimensional, so missing it isreally the default condition, surely? Like, missing the line, missing the plane, and worse of all, missing the solid, are pretty dumb, mess-up things. But missing the point? How can people blame each other for that?)

Fathen Time is a fashing fuckist, and whatever with the Hitler shit. Yeah, eyah, y'facking humans, alwatys with the "we did it better" shit.

Yr Hitler wasnt even a real fashist!

Show me hisfaggot. Where's Htlers faggot, then??

Not a fashist. You lose. Human! Human! Human!

I'm pretty sure you posted that to the wrong thread.

We are talking sweet reason here, only slightly leavened with common sense.

Your chronological accountancy is not welcome here. Or probably anywhere.

Oh hell, I'm feeling generous...

*shoves plastic hourglass up PU's rectum*

You are just jealous, because you cannot cheat death! :rolleyes:

I cannot wrap my mind around how high NH must be.

I cannot wrap my mind around how high NH must be.

'm drunk. Lowered inhibitions. 's all.

Engjoy.Nothing illegal happening here! :D

Now I reply to PU, who copped an insult and comes back with wit. You may retire ifyou wish.

NO I DIDN"T SAY THAT!

I lov your name, actually. I didn't mean that.

You are just jealous, because you cannot cheat death! :rolleyes:

Really, sorry. It seemed funny at the time. I don't assault people with timepieces, nor sexually assault them with same, nor sexually assault anyone.

Really, it's not my thing. I just thought of the hourglass, and had to find some way to 'give it to you' and ... well, these things happen. Honest mistake.

As to cheating Death, I'd have to know the rules before I could cheat the bastrd, right?

As I understand it, you don't find out the rules until you mett death, and ya only get one chance.

Rotten odds. No, hang on, let me thing about this, not just rotten but excuse me --

*waters NSG potted palm*

... ah. Yes. It's all much clearer now. But no. No, I think. Um. I mean.

Yep. The thing. Thae thing is, with Death, he's shit scared of his father. So you don't really got to know his father, you just say his name. Then Death is ytour gitch!

Get it now ? Is there any mnore beer? Wine? Anything?

I cannot wrap my mind around how high NH must be.

Actually you can ... if you want to .. and I let you.

It's that ten-minute raging thing before you suddenly have to lie down.

D'ya go to dance gigs? It's that thing where someone jumps onto the floor and starts shaking it, and they're really crap for a minut or so but they don't care, and they're recklessly shaking it but really uncoordinated and people stand or dance well out of arms reach of them.
Then the band start the next song and he or she is right there in the groove and dances the greatest bit of go-go ever, but doesn't quite make it to the end of the song but instead all of a sudden wants a cigarette or a drink and lunges over that way and something chaotic happens but yuo can't really hear it over the band and if you glance over that way you see something like a starfish, but wearing black.

'ts like that. No problem really. Damn, this potted plant smeels good! What sort is it?

Is that your drink? It looks funny, i could test it for yOU?

Hobos, it might just be time to take a break and sober up. Just a thought.

As for your comment on short posts. Unfortunately, I often don't do that. I also tend to read all the posts in a debate, mostly because I'm rarely walking in at the beginning. So I make fairly lengthy posts, but try to use short paragraphs to make up for it.

Hobos, it might just be time to take a break and sober up. Just a thought.

Actually, a stint in rehab might be more to the point. But thanks, that was rather egregious spam I was dishing out.

As for your comment on short posts. Unfortunately, I often don't do that. I also tend to read all the posts in a debate, mostly because I'm rarely walking in at the beginning. So I make fairly lengthy posts, but try to use short paragraphs to make up for it.

OK. I'm not claiming some arcane knowledge of who reads what.

I suppose what I was getting at is that long posts with bad spelling and no punctuation aren't a good way to get a point across. If it can be expressed in a couple of sentences, it should be.

"Read lots, post little" is how I'd sum up good posting. I don't read as much as I should, and I've been posting too much. :)

EDIT: G'n'I, I missed that. "Hiding ones lightness under a bushel" ... very nice.

Now you're just fishing for compliments. :D

I see I've found my way into your sig. :) So I must have guessed your gender right? Happy to edit it if not.

I am a he.

Cheers noble :D




Im only newish here, but the best post ive seen (though i didnt comment as id read some other posts by you so wasnt sure how you meant it) was in the Kurdistan thread. It was only about 2 lines about Palastine wanting to be an offical state but them not wanting the same for Kurdistan (pointed out the error and two sides of the situation brilliantly)


(But... maybe your best post ever was the one in this thread ... has got me typing slower and making more efforts with my posts. :D (Big thanks to you and Noble!))


Still votes for not changing the DST though :P
(but only becuase ive not read an arguement for changing it that makes sense in my eyes) (and i friggin hate the clocks changing as im usually out when it happens and the clubs close an hour early the gits lol)

Well, it's true. This Turkish guy who strongly supports Palestine said to me that Kurdistan does not exist. I feel that way about Palestine. Also, good for you. Your posts are easier to read now :)

If you absolutely insist on mis-spelling MY NAME, please go with Nigel.

I chose "Nobel" because "Nobel-Prize-Winning Hobos" was made of lose.
I wanted a nation which only did education. Everything else was up to the citizens.
First day in, I found NSG.

I've since discovered that Alfred Nobel wasn't that nice a guy ... but hey, maybe it fits after all.

Wow, I just realized it was Nobel and not Noble. He wasn't bad. He realized his blessing was also a curse and tried to make good on it.

yes you do - all year long. by definition.

Then, you're just in the next time zone.