NationStates Jolt Archive

I know, I know. It sounds like a total flame.

But hear me out.

See, for starters, I am American, so I'm not too keen on insulting myself. Nevertheless, I was reading the topic about whether Jews were teh uber-race, and the post that said smart Americans had 0 results on Google (untrue, by the way) intrigued me so that I tried it myself.

The result? This blog post that I found fairly interesting.

Why the hell are Americans so stupid?
A caveat: A great many Americans are culturally and geographically literate. Typically, they're people in business, people online (AOL and WebTV users excepted), most (but not all) teachers... these Americans are culturally and geographically literate. With that out of the way, here are some personal theories. (Ain't the Web a great place to vent?)

1. Hollywood.
No, it's not a nefarious Hollywood plot. The vast majority of popular movies and television shows are either set in the US or some bizarre fantasy world. American viewers rarely see other cultures or other countries. Meanwhile, the rest of the world gobbles up this Hollywood crap. The result? People in the world think they know more about the US than the average American knows about, say, Switzerland. For the most part, they're right, although they do form rather weird misconceptions about the US.

2. Lazy Parents.
I come from a family of voracious readers, and if you've read this far you probably did too. I've always loved to read. I've also always loved maps, and my parents encouraged this. Kids can easily discover the pleasures of learning about the rest of the world, but too many parents don't give a crap. Their kids are in day care all day, and when they come home Mom is content to plop their butts in front of the television, placated on a diet of Nintendo and bad Korean animation. (Not to pick on Mom, because she works hard. Mom and Dad are usually divorced at this point, if they were ever married in the first place, and Dad is out trolling the bars.)

I am convinced that this is the primary reason why so many of our kids are illiterate and/or oblivious to the world around him. Parents, get off your lazy asses and act as good role models.
3. Nonsense in our schools.
Schools have become warehouses for children, underpaid teachers having to spend more time dealing with bureaucratic bullsh**, stupid education theories (i.e., the Open Classroom concept and "self-esteem"), and disciplinary action than actual teaching. It doesn't help that so many parents don't give a hoot once their kid's in school - the school's simply now a free combination day care/restaurant/medical dispensary/discipline center for them to drop their kids off. Public education is a big suckhole that devours more of our tax dollars each year, so where the hell does our tax money go? It sure doesn't go to our teachers.
4. Self-Gratification
So many American kids get no direction in life other than self-gratification. "If it feels good, do it!" seems to be their motto, and since their parents live that way why should they be any different? I've never understood parents allowing their high-school age children to go on "spring break". Spring break is an excuse for children to get drunk without any supervision. It's natural for kids to want to do that. What's NOT natural is that so many parents think it's OK.
5.

Perhaps Americans aren't that stupid.

The co-worker I mentioned above is highly skilled at what he does, working on sophisticated electronics. He does it well. He just doesn't know much about geography. Since the US is an enormous country compared to individual European countries, Americans haven't had to be as "international" as the residents of the many small European countries. While this is changing with the expansion of global trade, most Americans still only deal with other Americans in the course of their everyday lives, as opposed to Europeans who regularly deal with neighboring countries that have different cultures.

It all boils down to the fact that knowledge and intelligence are two different issues. Rote memorization of world capitals does not equate intelligence.

I do find it interesting that Europeans have such strong opinions on this, considering that there are many more pressing issues to be concerned about. Perhaps the steady European refrain of "Americans are stupid" is a reflection of their own deep-rooted insecurity. You know -- an inferiority complex.

It is also interesting to note that Europeans are as shit-stupid as Americans. (I get lots of hate letters from EuroTrash for pointing this fact out)

For instance, many French believe that the US government flew a 757 into the Pentagon on September 11. This belief is incredibly stupid, yet a shockingly large percentage of the French find it perfectly reasonable. It is ironic that a society so opinionated about Americans believes something so absurd.

The Germans are stupid as well. For instance, the Mayor of Berlin does not know when World War II started. According to a recent study published by Die Welt, more than half of all Germans under 24 do not know what the Holocaust was.

Same with the British. According to a recent poll, "Nearly Half of Britons Are Unaware of Auschwitz." My theory is that these are Guardian readers.

So what are the answers, Mr. Smart Guy?
I don't know. I do know that I'm raising my kid to appreciate and enjoy geography, science and history. It's not difficult to do.

Source: http://www.scribd.com/doc/45795/Why-the-hell-are-Americans-so-stupid-

Quoth the Wiki, nevermore
An open classroom is a student-centered classroom design format popular in the United States in the 1970s. In its most extreme form, entire schools were built without walls, which made teaching loudly disruptive. The idea of the open classroom was that a large group of students of varying skill levels would be in a single, large classroom with several teachers overseeing them. It is ultimately derived from the one-room schoolhouse, but sometimes expanded to include more than two hundred students in a single multi-age and multi-grade classroom.

So what are your thoughts? I think he may have had a good point regarding the lack of US need to go international versus that of Europeans, but I hardly know enough to say that I agree fully.

I, for one, blame the homocommunist public education system.

I blame the media blamers

I blame the media blamers

*shakes head*

It's the hippies.

I blame the liberal media.

i just assume that americans like to goof on poll takers and that they really DO know where the US is on the map but its much more fun to pretend that you dont.

I blame stupid education policies paired with psuedo-scientific (if that) indoctrination, and a side order of a disproportionate amount of unmotivated teachers working in public school systems.



Fix that and it will actually work like intended. Of course, everyone would rather just dump tax money into the schools so they get a more fancy teacher's lounge...

I blame it on the rain.

I agree about the reading thing. My parents love reading, and I'm always stunned when I see a family that has no books in their house except the phone book. Sometimes they're die hard christians, but they don't own a bible. I grew up thinking it's normal to have a house full of books, but most people don't have that. I'm one of the only people who actually has a bookcase in my dorm.

I think americans sound a lot stupider than they are, because in america you're expected to speak your mind loudly, and whether you think before speaking is less important.

Same with the British. According to a recent poll, "Nearly Half of Britons Are Unaware of Auschwitz." My theory is that these are Guardian readers.*blinks* Huh? Why has this guy got an axe to grind against the Guardian? Not that I particularly care for the Guardian... but...

I agree about the reading thing. My parents love reading, and I'm always stunned when I see a family that has no books in their house except the phone book. Sometimes they're die hard christians, but they don't own a bible. I grew up thinking it's normal to have a house full of books, but most people don't have that. I'm one of the only people who actually has a bookcase in my dorm.

I think americans sound a lot stupider than they are, because in america you're expected to speak your mind loudly, and whether you think before speaking is less important.

I actually don't have space for some of my books on my shelves.

Which is a crime that should be punishable by death seeing as how Terry Pratchett's books are among the shelfless.

I agree. 'Knowledge' and 'intelligence' are not synonymous. I'm also a staunch isolationist/anti-globalizationist, so I'm cool with the whole "not going international" thing.

And it's humorous and tragic that that many Germans do not know what the holocaust was. I don't know if it's true, but if it is, it could sure be explained quite easily by pointing out the fact that people get arrested for denying it. If you aren't allowed to talk about it in a certain, government-approved way (i.e., you aren't allowed to deny it), there's a good chance you'll be loathe to talk about in in general. This deprives Germans of a major part of their own history for the sake of sensitivity. Isn't there a saying about people who ignore history are doomed to repeat it or something?

I agree. 'Knowledge' and 'intelligence' are not synonymous. I'm also a staunch isolationist/anti-globalizationist, so I'm cool with the whole "not going international" thing.

And it's humorous and tragic that that many Germans do not know what the holocaust was. I don't know if it's true, but if it is, it could sure be explained quite easily by pointing out the fact that people get arrested for denying it. If you aren't allowed to talk about it in a certain, government-approved way (i.e., you aren't allowed to deny it), there's a good chance you'll be loathe to talk about in in general. This deprives Germans of a major part of their own history for the sake of sensitivity. Isn't there a saying about people who ignore history are doomed to repeat it or something?

The liberal media (movies, television, news, etc.) is to blame. This includes so called "conservative" things like FOX News. They're nothing but liberals in the guise of the Republican Party. True conservatives are anti-war, anti-globalist, and for limited government.

Americans are smart because they realize that an endless pursuit of greater knowledge conflicts with the practical necessities of something called "reality."

Considering most polls cited are outside or in malls, it's pretty obvious that they aren't reaching the intelegent part of the population ;)

More seriously, I blame the structure of the education system. We're taught that it's OK to forget everything after the major test and re-cram right before the final. Once we leave the system, pop culture fits right into the mental process: memorizing who's doing what and forgetting about it a month later.
Throw in the fact that grades are based entirely on what you accomplish rather than what you've learned and what results is a perfect environment to avoid learning anything at all.

Finally, I blame the word 'blame'.

Le sigh.

I blame the liberal media.

I blame the media period be it liberal or conservative.

Americans are smart because they realize that an endless pursuit of greater knowledge conflicts with the practical necessities of something called "reality."

Reality excludes intelligence?

This answers so many questions...

According to a recent study published by Die Welt, more than half of all Germans under 24 do not know what the Holocaust was.
I'm trying to find that study, but I can't. Help would be appreciated.

It seems pretty much impossible, considering that we did the topic in primary school and then both in German (twice, actually, first just like that and then when we read Anne Frank's diary) and history in high school.

The blame falls on five groups. The parents for not inspiring their children to love learning. The teachers for not putting in as much effort as they should, and for just handing out stupid worksheets all the time. The kids themselves for not being interested and lazy. The administrators for sucking at their job. And their politicians for making up fucked up education policies.

Of course, most people in these groups (most parents, most teachers, etc.)aren't to blame, but when you see someone that isn't very knowledgeable, you know at least one of the groups failed.

#1 US(we) are not stupid.
#2 IMO, US are somewhat Ignorant.

When I talk to some of my fellow paysanos I am under the impression most of them feel that we dont need to know anything about the Rest of the World's Cultures, Geopolitics, History, etc etc.

Of course when a plane blows the World Trade Center.. then yes.. they all want to know where is Afghanistan? who are they?? and what the hell is going on outside our crystal ball???

I blame the people who stereotype the lot of us. The small minded nimrods who think that their own redneck family and bad education are the majority. I also blame the people who get their information from blogs and *shudder* anything with the "word" wiki in it. You get stupid people no matter what country you are in. People everywhere seem have this half-assed theory that anyone not of their own nationality are unintelligent. Then again most morons have the theory that everyone around them regardless of race or nationality are less intelligent then they. And the pollsters aren't helping. They interview not so random people walking out of a mall or a gas station. You never see them at the library. "Hey he has overalls, interview him!!!" "She looks about 20 and has 5 kids, interview her!!!" they say. Not by any means necessarily stupid people. But pollsters are like bloodhounds when it comes to low intelligence. So I blame the individual.

And porn. I blame porn.

Oh and to the post above mine. Nobody gives a rat's ass about their dangerous crack smoking neighbor. But when that neighbor kills your dog then you want to know everything about them.

I have to agree whole heartedly with what the blogger wrote about the reasons(though not necessarily his method of writing itself or some of the unnecessary insults he tossed about.) I would like to add an extra point:

Politicians and the Media Exploitation: Most likely the situation was not intended by them, but once it came about the media and politicians happily exploited it with all their might to sell as many products and buy as many votes as possible. We see it all the time, especially today where places like Fox News drum up the war effort, disgusting fuckwits like Chris Hanson do their thing and politicians on both sides argue the same stupid talking points every damned debate, making one wonder why they bothered with a debate at all if all they're going to do is that.

In response to this sentsnce in the original post:

The Germans are stupid as well. For instance, the Mayor of Berlin does not know when World War II started. According to a recent study published by Die Welt, more than half of all Germans under 24 do not know what the Holocaust was.


Part of this is because the Germans have decided to ignore the whole Nazi era as much as possible, even to the point of glossing over it in their school textbooks.

Stupid people are more likely to do stupid things, which means they're more likely to be featured in the media doing said stupid things. And, of course, since a lot of people outside of the US in particular have little experience with the majority of Americans, they see this stupid stuff and think "LOL WUT? Americans must be pretty stupid" regardless of whether it is true or not. Mind you, it works both ways; I cringe whenever I hear blatant ignorance about another part of the world, especially when advanced by someone in a position that involves making decisions about said region.

I mean, how often do you see a special news report on new scientific research or advances in FASB legislation as opposed to "Unwed Mother With 12 Kids Eaten by Wild Tiger in the Backseat of a Burning Monster Truck"?

*snip* I mean, how often do you see a special news report on new scientific research or advances in FASB legislation as opposed to "Unwed Mother With 12 Kids Eaten by Wild Tiger in the Backseat of a Burning Monster Truck"?


I was at the fairgrounds when that happened. It was awesome.

*resumes lurking*

I blame the Jews, of course.

I blame movies for portraying us as ignorant and the rest of the world for buying into it.

That's like people in the U.S believing that everyone in England drinks tea...oh wait.

I blame.

Part of this is because the Germans have decided to ignore the whole Nazi era as much as possible, even to the point of glossing over it in their school textbooks.
Eh, wrong.....

Actually, German students are taken on school trips to the Concentration Camps to enforece the idea of "never again" into their minds.

I studied in Germany and was taken to Dachau, and I'm an American.

i just assume that americans like to goof on poll takers and that they really DO know where the US is on the map but its much more fun to pretend that you dont.
You've stumbled on our secret, which is actually very clever. If the US does things such as invade Iraq but can't find it on a map, the rest of the world pulls their hair and mumbles about the idiocy of the US. But if Iraq is invaded and not only can Americans find it on the map, they can see what is occurring there with the View-O-Tron 3000 they have built, the rest of the world tries to kill us. Thus, the country protects itself by releasing polls that indicate we are not so much an Evil Empire as a slow, clumsy child.

Now that I think about it, americans get a lot of unfair criticism. A lot of people accuse americans of being lazy. Americans are lazy in their thinking, but we are very productive.

I blame it on the rain.

-10 points for referencing Milli Vanilli.:p

's dat uh ritericul queshtun:confused:

I blame the rest of the world for being so dull.
Whenever you look at world news it's either a bunch of fat people forming committees to condemn this or that, or it's a bunch of skinny people staring plaintively at a camera and waiting for someone to send another airplane of bags filled with curry-flavored oatmeal (or whatever damned stuff they eat in the absence of real food). Sure, there's the occasional war or genocide, but that's not anything that one can't see whenever AMC does a WW2 marathon.
If the world wants to be noticed, it's going to have to recover some of the old glamor it once had. What happened to the adventure and magic of 19th Century India? The mystery of 18th Century China? Or the uncharted darkness of 17th century Africa? Where are all the grand European wars of conquest and religion?

I blame the rest of the world for being so dull.
Whenever you look at world news it's either a bunch of fat people forming committees to condemn this or that, or it's a bunch of skinny people staring plaintively at a camera and waiting for someone to send another airplane of bags filled with curry-flavored oatmeal (or whatever damned stuff they eat in the absence of real food). Sure, there's the occasional war or genocide, but that's not anything that one can't see whenever AMC does a WW2 marathon.
If the world wants to be noticed, it's going to have to recover some of the old glamor it once had. What happened to the adventure and magic of 19th Century India? The mystery of 18th Century China? Or the uncharted darkness of 17th century Africa? Where are all the grand European wars of conquest and religion?See, this is part of the speaking before thinking thing. You're judging the world by the tv.

See, this is part of the speaking before thinking thing. You're judging the world by the tv.

That's the point: why can't the rest of the world be like TV? I would like that much better, even with the commercials.

See, this is part of the speaking before thinking thing. You're judging the world by the tv.
And trashy Victorian novels. Don't forget the trashy novels!

See, this is part of the speaking before thinking thing.

Look who's talkin'.

:p

If the world was like tv, my only career options would be doctor, lawyer, politician, bad guy, cop, or cartoon. Cartoon would be pretty cool, except you would randomly get hit with stuff all the time.

There's something else to blame - American tourists.

As much as the stereotype of Japanese camera-clacking tourists was built on the early group tours to America, the American tourist doesn't always do America much justice.

My elder brother worked on a cruise ship as a bartender and was asked many, simply odd, questions of which the most surreal was:

Do these stairs go down? (They were just stairs, not even escalators, just your bog-standard stairs)

To some extent, all tourists are stupid, and ask stupid questions, it's just that there tends to be more more American tourists than from any other country.

That's the point: why can't the rest of the world be like TV? I would like that much better, even with the commercials.

"This famine brought to you by Comerica Bank. Comerica Bank, we have good service. And no skinny Africans."

Stupid compared to who? A handful of other nations out of the 200+ in the world that are far behind us in education? You mean in terms of knowing the capital of Slovenia? I'd rather have people who know to change a tire over those who know the name of the fifth Roman Emperor.

I would like to give props to the guy who mentioned people screwing around with their answers to poll questions. Phone polls are complete bullshit. The questions are always presented to fit one political position and people treat them no different than telemarketer. They also poll area that are likely to give them the answers they want.

I'll give you a good example of using these ridiculous polls for propaganda.

"Do you think it's possible that Al-Qaeda or another terrorist group that was involved in 9/11 received some funding directly or indirectly from Saddam Hussein's regime, which has publicly funded Hamas and other terrorist groups?"

I know I would answer yes, it's possible.

World headlines: Americans say that Saddam was behind 9/11!

That's the enlightened progressive European coverage.

You've stumbled on our secret, which is actually very clever. If the US does things such as invade Iraq but can't find it on a map, the rest of the world pulls their hair and mumbles about the idiocy of the US. But if Iraq is invaded and not only can Americans find it on the map, they can see what is occurring there with the View-O-Tron 3000 they have built, the rest of the world tries to kill us. Thus, the country protects itself by releasing polls that indicate we are not so much an Evil Empire as a slow, clumsy child.

i guess i did distance myself from my answer but i am an american. im just so old that when i went to school we actually studied a bit of geography even in the crappy rural school i went to.

i guess i did distance myself from my answer but i am an american. im just so old that when i went to school we actually studied a bit of geography even in the crappy rural school i went to.
So you already know? That's good, we shouldn't let the secret leave the country.

I blame the rest of the world for being so dull.
Whenever you look at world news it's either a bunch of fat people forming committees to condemn this or that, or it's a bunch of skinny people staring plaintively at a camera and waiting for someone to send another airplane of bags filled with curry-flavored oatmeal (or whatever damned stuff they eat in the absence of real food). Sure, there's the occasional war or genocide, but that's not anything that one can't see whenever AMC does a WW2 marathon.
If the world wants to be noticed, it's going to have to recover some of the old glamor it once had. What happened to the adventure and magic of 19th Century India? The mystery of 18th Century China? Or the uncharted darkness of 17th century Africa? Where are all the grand European wars of conquest and religion?

For this I blame the trend of camouflage use in armies - it was so much better when we all had colorful costumes that bore no relation to the landscape around us - the British, in their fancy red coats exemplify this attitude, that if you don't at least put on a show when going to war, well there's not much point going in the first place.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CgmEhy5dsXI

Oh come on, everyone still studies geography. Kids just don't give a shit about where the Ukraine is, unless it's on that particular test.

Personally I loved history and geography, but we are dealing with the politically correct late 20th/early 21st century curriculum which is far more concerned about making sure everyone knows that the white man is to blame for all the evils in society and Republicans are cruel and heartless racists.

I can remember as far back as 3rd grade when I recall hearing my first teacher saying how Republicans were racists and members of the KKK. Oh and ironically, she was the history/geography teacher.

I never really had to study anything except european and american history in school. I knew nothing about the middle east until 9/11. They usually only mentioned asia and africa when they where talking about some war with europe. Until I got to college I really knew nothing about africa except that europeans invaded it at some point, and americans got slaves from there. I was aware that I knew nothing about african history but I assumed it was because africans didn't have written language, but that's not really true. In elementary school, one teacher told me that africans never became very advanced because they didn't have to adapt to winter...

We learned a lot about african AMERICANS though. It seems like the only books I had to read for school where about african americans, written by african americans, or about some war. I wish they had us read at least one good book by a white male, like catcher in the rye or 1984. Those are books high school students are supposed to read.

Terrorists.

I blame NationStates, you should all be ashamed of yourselves...

I think country music proves that Americans are highly sophisticated and intelligent.

In terms of history and geography I blame curriculum and textbooks that favor heroification of past leaders, famous inventors,etc. They rob history of its personal and cultural context. High school history textbooks talk about Woodrow Wilson as a great man and limit the story of Helen Keller to her childhood years to tell an easy folktale. They neglect to mention Wilson being a total racist imperialist who weakened US geopolitical power with frequent underhanded dealings in Latin America. Oh how we loved dictators then. They also neglect to talk about Keller's life after the feel good part. How she was a socialist who voted for Debbs, and wrote a thesis on how your limit in life is not how hard you work but from what socioeconomic class you come from. They do this for a variety of reasons. One is to look back with favor on those who have "helped build our heritage." The other is to instill blind patriotism and belief in the "American Dream." Neither of these are good reasons and rely little on truth. "We don't want to hurt young children's feelings by telling them Wilson wasn't a great guy would we?"

Americans are extremely intelligent, hard working people. It's the, "this is how we teach it" mentality that makes them "stupid." God Bless the history teachers who dare to question the norms and try to be objective with their students. Too often they are thrust down by school boards, angry parents, or both. We Americans have fragile egos you know? Good night all.

In terms of history and geography I blame curriculum and textbooks that favor heroification of past leaders, famous inventors,etc. They rob history of its personal and cultural context. High school history textbooks talk about Woodrow Wilson as a great man and limit the story of Helen Keller to her childhood years to tell an easy folktale. They neglect to mention Wilson being a total racist imperialist who weakened US geopolitical power with frequent underhanded dealings in Latin America. Oh how we loved dictators then. They also neglect to talk about Keller's life after the feel good part. How she was a socialist who voted for Debbs, and wrote a thesis on how your limit in life is not how hard you work but from what socioeconomic class you come from. They do this for a variety of reasons. One is to look back with favor on those who have "helped build our heritage." The other is to instill blind patriotism and belief in the "American Dream." Neither of these are good reasons and rely little on truth. "We don't want to hurt young children's feelings by telling them Wilson wasn't a great guy would we?"

Americans are extremely intelligent, hard working people. It's the, "this is how we teach it" mentality that makes them "stupid." God Bless the history teachers who dare to question the norms and try to be objective with their students. Too often they are thrust down by school boards, angry parents, or both. We Americans have fragile egos you know? Good night all.I can see you've read at least the first 2 chapters of the book lies my teacher told me.

Part of this is because the Germans have decided to ignore the whole Nazi era as much as possible, even to the point of glossing over it in their school textbooks.
Huh?

That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=5Xr_ggeNcgAC&dq=holocaust+modern+germany+culture&pg=PA194&ots=ofuBt0syzk&sig=nJ7Qp2Qq2KoyElUV1Hwv127d6qw&prev=http://www.google.com.au/search%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Dholocaust%2Bmodern%2Bgermany%2Bculture%26meta%3D&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=2&cad=legacy#PPP1,M1 Go look.

My elder brother worked on a cruise ship as a bartender and was asked many, simply odd, questions of which the most surreal was:

Do these stairs go down? (They were just stairs, not even escalators, just your bog-standard stairs)

Well... you didn't finish the story... Did the stairs go down???? Don't leave us Yanks hanging!

-10 points for referencing Milli Vanilli.:p

-50 for knowing the reference! ;)

I blame it on the rampant anti-intellectualism that stems from the First Great Awakening of 1734 and continued to build until this day.

-50 for knowing the reference! ;)


He fell into my cunning trap! :p

I blame it on the rampant anti-intellectualism that stems from the First Great Awakening of 1734 and continued to build until this day.

Oh brother :rolleyes:

If you want to play that game...I blame it all on secularist.

Note: this is to be taken in jest.

Well... you didn't finish the story... Did the stairs go down???? Don't leave us Yanks hanging!

Against all odds, no, the stairs did not, in fact, go down - the entire ship was an M.C. Escher nightmare of design.

(As a patronising and condescending European, I feel I must provide a link as to who M.C. Escher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.C.Escher) is, as it stretches my belief that you Americans would understand the word 'art' let alone know an 'artist')

Oh brother :rolleyes:

If you want to play that game...I blame it all on secularist.

Note: this is to be taken in jest.
Well, what is it that you disagree with on that?

Although from your jest it appears you believe I am talking about religious/secular.

But that is not the case.

The schism I am talking about is between rational religion/ emotive religion. The latter being what those who took part in the Great Awakenings leaned towards.

Although around the time of the Revolution, it becomes more of emotive religion/Deism which is more secular.

It was these experiences that led these evangelicals away from valuing a learned scholar and more towards a passionate and charismatic leader. Which is what American Anti-Intellectualism is about.

I blame the current ways of thinking taught in school.

Slavery was invented by the cruel and evil white people. Theyz rapeded peoplez.

You are special. You don't have to learn if you don't want. I'm giving you an A anyway because you are special.

A boy who humps a teacher is lucky and this is perfectly acceptable. Well, maybe the boy gets called a perv. A 15 year old girl makes out with a 19 year old boy. The boy is now considered a sex-addicted rapist. The girl gets demonized, but the boy now can't get a job (would YOU hire a rapist?) or into college (would YOU want a rapist near women?) or even a wife (would YOU want to live with a rapist?). The guy gets told that he should suck it up a move on. Yeah, because living the rest of your life off of minimum wage and family help is such a great way to live. What good is woman rights if women are still treated as weak? It's nothing but a big redundency.

I, for one, blame the homocommunist public education system.

And let's take this into account.


Additionally, people do not practice Democracy because it is not taught in our schools. History in general is not taught correctly. George Bush’s No Child Left Behind Act only holds schools accountable for student productivity on reading and math tests, causing other subjects, such as history, to get shorted. What better way to prevent people from thinking about the present then by keeping them ignorant of the past. Adolf Hitler once said, “What luck for rulers that men do not think.” The power structure knows that an educated populace is hard to govern, so there has been a well orchestrated plan to dumb down the public school system. It is much easier to govern when students are indoctrinated with nationalism, forced to recite allegiances and bow to flags, and taught to be mindless consumers in a world where everyone is equal in their ability consume and waste.-http://axeman014-political.blogspot.com/

*shakes head*
Guys, we all know what the problem is: Homocommunist-nazi hippie zombies caused by the rain.

*shakes head*
Guys, we all know what the problem is: Homocommunist-nazi hippie zombies caused by the rain.

Quick! MOVWE ALL ZIGS. BEFORE ALL OUR BRANEZ ARE BELONG TO THEM! :sniper::mp5::gundge:

(As a patronising and condescending European, I feel I must provide a link as to who M.C. Escher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.C.Escher) is, as it stretches my belief that you Americans would understand the word 'art' let alone know an 'artist')

M.C. Escher???? Sorry... I'm not into Rap music.

(As a patronising and condescending European, I feel I must provide a link as to who M.C. Escher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.C.Escher) is, as it stretches my belief that you Americans would understand the word 'art' let alone know an 'artist')

Yeah, but I bet you Europeans can't find artistic beauty in a balance sheet.

I postulate this question every time I see two parking spaces taken by a Hummer that serves no practical use in a city. I think it every time I see a morbidly obese man blaming businesses for his own weakness and incompetence. I see it burning behind my retinae every time an unqualified and inattentive parent blames music and video games for the school shooting their child caused.

Why are Americans so stupid?

It's a blunt and generalized statement-cum-question, but it has its valid points. We are lazy, unmotivated, violent, ignorant, bigoted, phobic (in a number of senses), and quick to judge...and let's not forget stupid. I myself blame our shameful ways on the successes of our parents, which coincides with my belief that America will rise from the ashes in a phoenix-esque manner economically and politically.

The men and women of the 1920's to about the 1960's were the pride and joy of our nation: industrious, hard-working, temperate people who understood the meaning of a dollar, and the value of a day's work. On the weight of their shoulders, the USA became the greatest force in the world, and there are few who would dare to challenge that statement. However, they themselves gave into the improprieties of arrogance and undue pride. Instead of instilling their greater virtues into their children, making them grow up 'the hard way' as you will, they instead lauded them and, essentially, spoiled the nation's future movers and shakers.

The decline of the nation (and our eventual drift into "stupid Americans") first became clear in the 70's and 80's, eras of decadence and depravity that essentially squandered all of the great feats accomplished by their forebearers. Their arrogant belief that America could never be felled, quickly fell apart in the 90's. Our economy floundered with the bursting of the tech bubble, yet, instead of holding back our excess like our forefathers would have, we splurged money we didn't have, and generally pulled all of the 'strings' we had going for us politically after the end of the two World Wars. That leaves us in the present.

Our society has improved very little since the days of the mohawk and the disco ball...come to think of it, in a large number of ways it has degraded. Our popular culture has sunk from it's former height as intellectually enthralling and morally respectable, to simply banal and regurgitated filth and violence. Of course, I'm not here to make a moral crusade against Britney Spears, T-Pain, and Lindsay Lohan, I'm here for the red white and blue.

As I had said before, I think that America is set for a global reinstatement into credibility. The way I see things, our world moves cyclically; good parents make bad children who in turn become bad parents that make good children. Most American youths and teens are disgusted by the world as they have seen it moulded, and in a number of ways break the stereotype of the 'stupid American'. While it is true that the ignorant, wasteful minority are the ones who receive the most airtime, I see America returning to it's former glory as the world's greatest and most respected superpower in twenty to thirty years...until then, I'm afraid I'll still have to listen to arrogant Europeans making Christina Aguilera jokes.

Every word of this was written by a right-leaning Moderate American college student who owns his own firearm (which he keeps at his residence far away from said college) and reads sci-fi war novels in his spare time.

WHY???

1- The Lawyerization of America.
I'm only 30, but when i was a kid, your parents could whoop your ass and there was nothing you could do about it, but cry or deal with it. Now: if you even look at your kid the wrong way, the Child welfare people swoop in and yank them away and put them in a foster home where the possiblity of any or all of the following could happen: Starvation, sexual abuse, physical abuse, anything involving drugs, etc. Curtail the ACLU a bit and then things will get better.

2- the egostroking and BS they teach in school now.
All my little cousins and relative are now taught BS in school such as: Multi-cultural history (something I personally don't have a problem with, but at least tell the damn truth), Math that doesn't involve real math, etc. And all this BS about how everyone is the same and should be treated the same. FireTruck-THAT! Granted race, religion and sex should not be a factor, but face it, some people don't deserve to be treated the same as everyone else, as NO ONE IS THE SAME! They're trying to make everyone be figurative clones of each other.

3- Celebrities-
KILL THEM ALL. So we don't have to waste 18 hours a day on the lastest Britney crap, Paris hilton, who's she dating this hour, will Nicole Richie eat a potato chip and will or will she not throw it up? WHO CARES! Goes double for athletes as well. I wanna watch one damn movie or sports event without having to hear about the off-field or screen stuff. But since the seemingly vast majority of americans want to know this crap, it dilutes the intelligence of everyone.

4- The Internet (SAYWHAT?)
Even though I am using the internet right now, Wasn't it originally supposed to be used for colleges and univerisities to exchange ideas quicker and help develop more understanding amongst the world? Now you have pedophiles stalking kids on You-Tube or MySpace, SPAM everyday, and other wastes of time like Nationstates.. (uhm.. ingore that last one please...lol). Hell kids now adays can't do math w/out using a calculator or a computer to count past 20 (21 for boys).

there's many other reasons, but these are some of the bigger ones (I could ahve gone into more detail, but i believe i'd just be repeating previous posts)

I'm only 30, but when i was a kid, your parents could whoop your ass and there was nothing you could do about it

Which is why we have CPS, and laws to actually, you know, protect children from being whipped and battered like in the "good 'ol days".

We are lazy, unmotivated, violent, ignorant, bigoted, phobic (in a number of senses), and quick to judge...and let's not forget stupid.

Wait....you guys are human?

The men and women of the 1920's to about the 1960's were the pride and joy of our nation: industrious, hard-working...blah blah good old days blah blah *snip*

I've quoted this song before and I'll quote it again and again but too often we have Americans looking back at the 'good old days', pining for mythical times...

The idea concerns the fact that this country wants nostalgia. They want to go back as far as they can – even if it's only as far as last week. Not to face now or tomorrow, but to face backwards. And yesterday was the day of our cinema heroes riding to the rescue at the last possible moment. The day of the man in the white hat or the man on the white horse - or the man who always came to save America at the last moment – someone always came to save America at the last moment – especially in “B” movies. And when America found itself having a hard time facing the future, they looked for people like John Wayne. But since John Wayne was no longer available, they settled for George Dubya – and it has placed us in a situation that we can only look at – like a “B” movie.

Good read, he does make some really valid points. Though I do think there's a little more to it then what's stated in the blog.

My theory is that these are Guardian readers.
rofl.. best line of the whole thing.


Which is why we have CPS, and laws to actually, you know, protect children from being whipped and battered like in the "good 'ol days".
.........

But I'm pretty sure that was his point though.

But I'm pretty sure that was his point though.

No way, read through it. Anybody who suggests curtailing the ACLU is all for beating small children with tire irons if they "disobey orders".

I know, I know. It sounds like a total flame.

But hear me out.

See, for starters, I am American, so I'm not too keen on insulting myself. Nevertheless, I was reading the topic about whether Jews were teh uber-race, and the post that said smart Americans had 0 results on Google (untrue, by the way) intrigued me so that I tried it myself.

The result? This blog post that I found fairly interesting.



Source: http://www.scribd.com/doc/45795/Why-the-hell-are-Americans-so-stupid-



So what are your thoughts? I think he may have had a good point regarding the lack of US need to go international versus that of Europeans, but I hardly know enough to say that I agree fully.

You forgot the zealous anti-intellectual xtians.

*blinks* Huh? Why has this guy got an axe to grind against the Guardian? Not that I particularly care for the Guardian... but...

Probably meant the Daily Mail.

The liberal media (movies, television, news, etc.) is to blame. This includes so called "conservative" things like FOX News. They're nothing but liberals in the guise of the Republican Party. True conservatives are anti-war, anti-globalist, and for limited government.

I love how you Paulites like to disown your own side.

I agree about the reading thing. My parents love reading, and I'm always stunned when I see a family that has no books in their house except the phone book. Sometimes they're die hard christians, but they don't own a bible. I grew up thinking it's normal to have a house full of books, but most people don't have that.

Indeed. I always loved reading as a kid, and I found it a little sad that not all kids did.


Part of this is because the Germans have decided to ignore the whole Nazi era as much as possible, even to the point of glossing over it in their school textbooks.

You're kidding, right?! They've done no such thing. There's a strong feeling of guilt always very near the surface in most Germans I've met. When I was 16 I had a German penpal, and I was stunned at how guilty he felt about WW2. He assumed no-one in France would have forgiven the Germans yet, and I had to explain to him that most French people rather like the Germans these days (when we bother to think about them at all).


Eh, wrong.....

Actually, German students are taken on school trips to the Concentration Camps to enforece the idea of "never again" into their minds.

I studied in Germany and was taken to Dachau, and I'm an American.

Yup. I spent a week in Germany on a school exchange programme, and they took us to the Buchenwald extermination camp.


In terms of history and geography I blame curriculum and textbooks that favor heroification of past leaders, famous inventors,etc. They rob history of its personal and cultural context. High school history textbooks talk about Woodrow Wilson as a great man and limit the story of Helen Keller to her childhood years to tell an easy folktale. They neglect to mention Wilson being a total racist imperialist who weakened US geopolitical power with frequent underhanded dealings in Latin America. Oh how we loved dictators then. They also neglect to talk about Keller's life after the feel good part. How she was a socialist who voted for Debbs, and wrote a thesis on how your limit in life is not how hard you work but from what socioeconomic class you come from. They do this for a variety of reasons. One is to look back with favor on those who have "helped build our heritage." The other is to instill blind patriotism and belief in the "American Dream." Neither of these are good reasons and rely little on truth. "We don't want to hurt young children's feelings by telling them Wilson wasn't a great guy would we?"

Americans are extremely intelligent, hard working people. It's the, "this is how we teach it" mentality that makes them "stupid." God Bless the history teachers who dare to question the norms and try to be objective with their students. Too often they are thrust down by school boards, angry parents, or both. We Americans have fragile egos you know? Good night all.

Interesting. Thank you for that.

I agree. 'Knowledge' and 'intelligence' are not synonymous. I'm also a staunch isolationist/anti-globalizationist, so I'm cool with the whole "not going international" thing.

And it's humorous and tragic that that many Germans do not know what the holocaust was. I don't know if it's true, but if it is, it could sure be explained quite easily by pointing out the fact that people get arrested for denying it. If you aren't allowed to talk about it in a certain, government-approved way (i.e., you aren't allowed to deny it), there's a good chance you'll be loathe to talk about in in general. This deprives Germans of a major part of their own history for the sake of sensitivity. Isn't there a saying about people who ignore history are doomed to repeat it or something?

I'd like to call bullshit on this one.
Recent history, including hours and hours on the Nazi regime, WW II and the Holocaust are mandatory in history classes in Germany from age 12 until you leave school.
However, the term "Holocaust" is not very familiar with Germans, it never caught on. I remember I was 18 when I stumbled over the word in an English book and had to go and look it up. When refering to the Holocaust, most Germans would use the terms Massenmord, Ausrottung der Juden, or Endloesung (if it's clearly understood that the speaker doesn't agree with it, but uses the terminology of the time).

As for Walter Momper not knowing when WW II started, German historians used to be in two minds about the date, I remember reading both 1938 and 1939 in different publications. These days, it's mostly agreed that 1938 marks the begining of the war.

I blame cell phones, iPods, and myspace.

...and James Blunt.

In response to this sentsnce in the original post:

The Germans are stupid as well. For instance, the Mayor of Berlin does not know when World War II started. According to a recent study published by Die Welt, more than half of all Germans under 24 do not know what the Holocaust was.


Part of this is because the Germans have decided to ignore the whole Nazi era as much as possible, even to the point of glossing over it in their school textbooks.

Excuse me?
What part of Germany did you grow up in? I for one had severe nightmares after being shown the photos of the heaps of naked corpses in elementary school.

Which is why we have CPS, and laws to actually, you know, protect children from being whipped and battered like in the "good 'ol days".

There is nothing wrong with taking your hand across your child's backside nor getting a ruler across the fingers in school. If my kid (when I have them) ever misbehaves to the point where a whack is needed, my hand will be across his or her backside.

There is nothing wrong with taking your hand across your child's backside

Spanking is one thing, beating is another.


nor getting a ruler across the fingers in school.

Oh HELL no. If I ever have children, my hand wil be the ONLY one to ever touch my child in such a manner, if I so decide to ever spank them.
Teachers dont get such a priveledge while I draw breath.

I would like to point the finger at "I Love Lucy"

Which is why we have CPS, and laws to actually, you know, protect children from being whipped and battered like in the "good 'ol days".
Children would be smarter if it weren't for CPS. For one thing, they'd all learn how to duck and know when Daddy's been drinking.

There is nothing wrong with taking your hand across your child's backside nor getting a ruler across the fingers in school."

If you need to resort to physical discipline, you've already blown it as a parent.

A teacher who needs to hit kids to keep them in line is a lousy teacher.


If my kid (when I have them) ever misbehaves to the point where a whack is needed, my hand will be across his or her backside.
If your kid is misbehaving to the point where a whack is needed, then you should enroll in some remedial parenting courses pronto.

Spanking or striking a child is a tactic for emergency situations. My mother slapped me once when I kept reaching for a hot burner, and she was right to do it because the sting of the slap was far less serious an injury than what I would have received if I managed to touch the burner. But for disciplining kids, hitting sucks. You're supposed to be the grown up, remember, and if you can't come up with better solutions then you've got no business being anybody's parent.

If you need to resort to physical discipline, you've already blown it as a parent.

Oh bullshit.

If your kid is misbehaving to the point where a whack is needed, then you should enroll in some remedial parenting courses pronto.

:rolleyes:

Spanking or striking a child is a tactic for emergency situations. My mother slapped me once when I kept reaching for a hot burner, and she was right to do it because the sting of the slap was far less serious an injury than what I would have received if I managed to touch the burner. But for disciplining kids, hitting sucks. You're supposed to be the grown up, remember, and if you can't come up with better solutions then you've got no business being anybody's parent.

*sighs*

I think we'll save this for another thread. I disagree with you 100%

"There is nothing wrong with hitting children - my parents hit me and it never did me any harm"

"Well it obviously did, you seem to think violence towards children is acceptable behaviour."

"There is nothing wrong with hitting children - my parents hit me and it never did me any harm"

"Well it obviously did, you seem to think violence towards children is acceptable behaviour."

There's a difference between beating children and a whack on the butt.

There's a difference between beating children and a whack on the butt.


And what exactly would that difference be - are you saying that I could hit you in two different ways and one would be assualt and the other wouldn't?

I postulate this question every time I see two parking spaces taken by a Hummer that serves no practical use in a city.

Hummers help remind poor people that the rich have larger penises. What could be more useful?


I think it every time I see a morbidly obese man blaming businesses for his own weakness and incompetence.

In past centuries, people berated skinny poor people for their laziness as they starved to death. In this century we berate fat people for being lazy because they're too fat. Thankfully, nobody has yet caught on to the laziness of us short people, who remain slothfully unwilling to grow taller.


I see it burning behind my retinae every time an unqualified and inattentive parent blames music and video games for the school shooting their child caused.

It used to be jazz music and demon liquor. Then it was rock music and Mary Jane. Then it was Marylin Manson and Ritalin. Next, my money is on techno-samba and absinthe.


Why are Americans so stupid?

It's a blunt and generalized statement-cum-question, but it has its valid points. We are lazy, unmotivated, violent, ignorant, bigoted, phobic (in a number of senses), and quick to judge...and let's not forget stupid.

Don't forget smelly.


I myself blame our shameful ways on the successes of our parents,

So a fat man blaming businesses for his fatness is bad, but it would be okay if he blamed his parents instead? What if his parents own a McDonald's franchise?


which coincides with my belief that America will rise from the ashes in a phoenix-esque manner economically and politically.

Economically, politically, spirtually, physically, undeniably and reliably!


The men and women of the 1920's to about the 1960's were the pride and joy of our nation: industrious, hard-working, temperate people who understood the meaning of a dollar, and the value of a day's work. On the weight of their shoulders, the USA became the greatest force in the world, and there are few who would dare to challenge that statement.

Whenever I hear this type of nostalgic talk I'm reminded of a trip to Shelbyville that me and the lads took back in ought five. I was wearing an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. You couldn't get the white onions, you could only get those big yellow ones. Where was I? Oh, yeah, the important thing was that I was wearing an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. You couldn't get the yellow ones because of the war...


However, they themselves gave into the improprieties of arrogance and undue pride. Instead of instilling their greater virtues into their children, making them grow up 'the hard way' as you will, they instead lauded them and, essentially, spoiled the nation's future movers and shakers.

I know what you mean. If only my parents had hit me harder when I was a youngin'. That'd have learned me, but good.


The decline of the nation (and our eventual drift into "stupid Americans") first became clear in the 70's and 80's, eras of decadence and depravity that essentially squandered all of the great feats accomplished by their forebearers.

Damn right. Nothing good happened in America during those wasted decades. They certainly didn't invent the very technology which is now allowing you to bash them on this internet forum.


Their arrogant belief that America could never be felled, quickly fell apart in the 90's.

Thankfully, we have President Bush to stand up for arrogant beliefs about America.


Our economy floundered with the bursting of the tech bubble, yet, instead of holding back our excess like our forefathers would have, we splurged money we didn't have, and generally pulled all of the 'strings' we had going for us politically after the end of the two World Wars. That leaves us in the present.

Anybody ever notice how failure suddenly unites the country?

When things are going well, everybody wants to take individual credit for the successes. But as soon as things suck, "we" all get to share the blame.


Our society has improved very little since the days of the mohawk and the disco ball...come to think of it, in a large number of ways it has degraded. Our popular culture has sunk from it's former height as intellectually enthralling and morally respectable, to simply banal and regurgitated filth and violence. Of course, I'm not here to make a moral crusade against Britney Spears, T-Pain, and Lindsay Lohan, I'm here for the red white and blue.

Kids today and their rock music!

I recommend that you shake your fist harder. That should make them get off your lawn.


As I had said before, I think that America is set for a global reinstatement into credibility. The way I see things, our world moves cyclically; good parents make bad children who in turn become bad parents that make good children.

Makes perfect sense. I recommend that all children be immediately placed in homes with alcoholic whore-mongering gamblers who beat them with reeds whenever they are insolent.


Most American youths and teens are disgusted by the world as they have seen it moulded, and in a number of ways break the stereotype of the 'stupid American'. While it is true that the ignorant, wasteful minority are the ones who receive the most airtime, I see America returning to it's former glory as the world's greatest and most respected superpower in twenty to thirty years...until then, I'm afraid I'll still have to listen to arrogant Europeans making Christina Aguilera jokes.

A return to the Americo-centric arrogance of yesteryear is bound to ensure that Europeans stop making fun of us!


Every word of this was written by a right-leaning Moderate American college student who owns his own firearm (which he keeps at his residence far away from said college) and reads sci-fi war novels in his spare time.
A splendid parody on your part. I hope you have enjoyed my contributions!

i just assume that americans like to goof on poll takers and that they really DO know where the US is on the map but its much more fun to pretend that you dont.


YES!

I make it a point to give stupid answers to polls, just to screw with the system.

One anarchistic poll saboteur can have a huge effect. Since a poll samples a small amount, say 2000 out of 300,000,000 Americans, each wacky answer you gives effectively puts 150,000 of us into the nut house.

Once I told the "Pepsi Challenge" that taste had nothing to do with it: I prefer Coke because they use Polar Bears in their commercials and I like Polar Bears. A marketing firm once called me to do a survey about my supermarket use. I gave them small, specialty grocery stores. God help the political poll taker who calls me. I leave them baffled and confused with contradictory nonsense.

I heard from one of the people with a "Nielsen Box"- the box that monitors TV use so the networks can figure out their ratings- that he left the TV on for his pet parrot. TV market research and commerical ad revenue are now being decided in part by 50,000 statistical parrots.

What I think speaks for itself is this; go down the road in New Zealand and Australia, and count the number of products on yourself that are made in America or owned by American companies.

I go down the road and almost every product is either; Japanese, Korean, Chinese or European (take your pick). Apart from a few odd ball products (hunts desert and some american branded pop corn from conagra), most of it has no connection to a US based company.

How is that a reflection; its an example of how insular, companies, and in turn, Americans are. Talk to the number who have gone overseas. New Zealand has a lower GDP per capita than the US, and yet, I'd say that a good portion have gone overseas and have a passport. If you go overseas, rather than being ridiculed as with the case of Americans who go overseas and ridiculted by their friends, its an expectation in NZ to have an overseas experience; see the old colonial master, make a few bucks, experience the world then come back and settle down.

US is the only empire that went from barbarism to fall without passing the stage of civilization.

In Europe where are far more educated.Why are not so specialised as you,but I bet that a middle European has far more general knowledge than a middle american. Our political system is different,we have many parties expressing many different opinions,liberal,concervatives,socialist,communist,revolutionary socialist, so we deal with more opinions than you and we have more media than you which express the parties views.Last but not least we don't think that we are the centre of the universe.

Oh bullshit.
*sighs*

I think we'll save this for another thread. I disagree with you 100%

Coming from a person who answers the door with a gun in hand at all times, I think I'll take your parental advice with a grain of salt.

Coming from a person who answers the door with a gun in hand at all times, I think I'll take your parental advice with a grain of salt.

You have a problem. I do not even own a gun so there :p

I agree about the reading thing. My parents love reading, and I'm always stunned when I see a family that has no books in their house except the phone book. Sometimes they're die hard christians, but they don't own a bible. I grew up thinking it's normal to have a house full of books, but most people don't have that. I'm one of the only people who actually has a bookcase in my dorm.

I think americans sound a lot stupider than they are, because in america you're expected to speak your mind loudly, and whether you think before speaking is less important.

You think that is bad, there can be 5 people living in a house (apparently as a family) and yet, none of them talk to each other beyond grunts and acknowledgements.

I thank god I was born in this family; we sit around as a family debating politics, religion, philosophy; each of us with a different view on things. People are surprised that as a family we can have enlightening conversations about more than what Britney Spears fucked last week.

US is the only empire that went from barbarism to fall without passing the stage of civilization.

Your knowledge of American History is, for lack of a better term, shit. So already I have to assume your general knowledge is on par.

If there was any barbaric stage in American History, it would be during the colonial period, during which America (excluding Native Americans and slaves) was entirely populated by Europeans. By your argument, Europeans at that time were barbarians. Not too far off in my opinion.

We only developed a decentralized government which the rest of the western world modeled itself thereafter. Even French contemporaries absolutely adored the power that was spread from a single central power to many branches, state legislatures, and even to local communities.

No offense, but throughout 'America's barbaric period', Europe was still warring with each other simply because their Kings and Dictator's told them to.

Americans are smart because they realize that an endless pursuit of greater knowledge conflicts with the practical necessities of something called "reality."

And what has the US contributed by way of philosophy and enlightenment. When the US long gone the only thing it'll be remember for is fat people, war starting and drugged up athletes.

Talk to the number who have gone overseas. New Zealand has a lower GDP per capita than the US, and yet, I'd say that a good portion have gone overseas and have a passport. If you go overseas, rather than being ridiculed as with the case of Americans who go overseas and ridiculted by their friends, its an expectation in NZ to have an overseas experience; see the old colonial master, make a few bucks, experience the world then come back and settle down.


Really bad comparison there. In New Zealand you have to go overseas to experience ANYTHING other than New Zealand. I have travelled overseas quite often, but at the same time, within an hour's travel (unless the subway isn't working) I can reach areas that are solidly Chinese, Korean, Central American, Polish, Russian, PePakistani or Indian in culture. All in the same day, if I push it. If I want furniture from West Africa or Sweden I know where to buy it.

Other than Rohan and Gondor, what am I going to find in New Zealand I can't find here?

Okay, other than bored sheep.

Your knowledge of American History is, for lack of a better term, shit. So already I have to assume your general knowledge is on par.

If there was any barbaric stage in American History, it would be during the colonial period, during which America (excluding Native Americans and slaves) was entirely populated by Europeans. By your argument, Europeans at that time were barbarians. Not too far off in my opinion.

We only developed a decentralized government which the rest of the western world modeled itself thereafter. Even French contemporaries absolutely adored the power that was spread from a single central power to many branches, state legislatures, and even to local communities.

No offense, but throughout 'America's barbaric period', Europe was still warring with each other simply because their Kings and Dictator's told them to.

No offense, you educatedness, but you do realise you're simply attacking a quote by Oscar Wilde, right? ;)

And what has the US contributed by way of philosophy and enlightenment. When the US long gone the only thing it'll be remember for is fat people, war starting and drugged up athletes.

U.S. Constitution
Bill of Rights
The Founding Fathers

Sure if you're eight years old, and your sense of history is what you catch on the evening news then yes, your examples are true. Fortunately the rest of us actually have an education.

Really bad comparison there. In New Zealand you have to go overseas to experience ANYTHING other than New Zealand. I have travelled overseas quite often, but at the same time, within an hour's travel (unless the subway isn't working) I can reach areas that are solidly Chinese, Korean, Central American, Polish, Russian, PePakistani or Indian in culture. All in the same day, if I push it. If I want furniture from West Africa or Sweden I know where to buy it.

Other than Rohan and Gondor, what am I going to find in New Zealand I can't find here?

Okay, other than bored sheep.

If you're like an American, and set your expectation *really* fucking low, you could make New Zealand interesting - but lets face it, New Zealand isn't interesting. America, its ok'ish, but lets face reality, US history can be boiled down into 4-5 key bits of history, the rest is bullshit made up by hicks trying to make their local history sound a lot more interesting than it really is.

ps. Low expectations; look at Mad TV, in the US it apparently passes as a comedy show.

U.S. Constitution
Bill of Rights
The Founding Fathers

Sure if you're eight years old, and your sense of history is what you catch on the evening news then yes, your examples are true. Fortunately the rest of us actually have an education.

All based on the Age of Enlightenment and the French Revolution - Try again.

The 'founding fathers' were not doing anything original; a collation of existing philosophy with an alternative model of government. Sorry if I don't jump around like some wanker waving a US flag in the air whilst chanting USA! USA!

No offense, you educatedness, but you do realise you're simply attacking a quote by Oscar Wilde, right? ;)

Does it matter that I disagree with it?

U.S. Constitution
Bill of Rights
The Founding Fathers

Sure if you're eight years old, and your sense of history is what you catch on the evening news then yes, your examples are true. Fortunately the rest of us actually have an education.

Well, despite being loathe to get into that discusion again, he was asking what it gave the world.
The items you listed had little to no impact on the world as a whole, compared to, say, the Code Civil.

Does it matter that I disagree with it?

If you take that quote to mean that the quoter has no sense of historical proportion, yes. ;)

It's quite simple. It goes right back to the founding of America. We were bred to be stupid.

First, the dregs of Europe were dumped into America. (Can't say that about anyone decended from an African. To survive the Middle Passage you had to be one tough MoFo)

Second, we Americans hate obvious aristocrats. The European tradition was that people with higher education were aristocrats. So Americans are suspicious of smart people. We celebrate the stupid. (GW Bush is a good example. Brittany Spears is another. And for Uber-Stupid - Paris Hilton) If you show any smarts in school you are called all sorts of nasty names and beaten up. It is even worse in African American communities. (Roommate taught in South Central LA...there's a whole culture of stupidity down there with expectations that you either leave the 'Hood as a rap star or b-ball hero.)

Third, stupidity sells because it's easy. It keeps Americans children and god knows they don't want to grow up any time soon. And our society doesn't allow them to. Someone in their 20s is called a child these days and excused from most responsibility. Men and women in their thirties and forties still collecting toys...I'm talking stuffed animals and action figures. Expecting instant gratification without responsibility. Pretty sad when a 35 year old woman has Hello Kitty all over her car. They've even opened a new chain of restaurants that are an adult take on Chuck E Cheese. Do you know what it's like to try working with people like that? Have you seen them as parents? What parents? It's a child of 30 raising a child.

Americans are infantile. And they want to drag the rest of the world right along with it. But be patient. This won't go on for long. Something will come along that will restore balance. A lot of infantile adults will get a rude shock, but that's the way things fall.

BTW...I'm an American. Served my country in the Army, served jury duty, studied in college most of my adult life for the fun of it, pay my taxes, vote carefully and was considered an adult by my family by the time I was 16...


...and expected to act that way.

All based on the Age of Enlightenment and the French Revolution - Try again.

The 'founding fathers' were not doing anything original; a collation of existing philosophy with an alternative model of government. Sorry if I don't jump around like some wanker waving a US flag in the air whilst chanting USA! USA!

Right, The French Revolution, a triumph for the common man...a dictator named Napoleon? That really showed those dictators who abused their power what for. We were one of the first to actually incorporate what was learned from the age of enlightenment into our government.

No, no, you jump around like some wanker burning an American flag growling at anyone from America like a rabid dog.

No offense, you educatedness, but you do realise you're simply attacking a quote by Oscar Wilde, right? ;)

:D:D:D

My dear american friend,I admire your revolutionaries father like Jeferson,but you must understand that we are not in the 18th century and Europe has made more steps in democracy than US.You only have two parties which are exactly the same!Sounds to me like the USSR.:D

Well, despite being loathe to get into that discusion again, he was asking what it gave the world.
The items you listed had little to no impact on the world as a whole, compared to, say, the Code Civil.

I forgot that not a single inventor came from American...nope, not a one. Not Benjamin Franklin or Robert Fulton.

Also take into account American has been around for just over 200 years, where as European civilization has been around for the better part of 2,000 years. Just slightly more time to come up with ideas.

:D:D:D

My dear american friend,I admire your revolutionaries father like Jeferson,but you must understand that we are not in the 18th century and Europe has made more steps in democracy than US.You only have two parties which are exactly the same!Sounds to me like the USSR.:D

Actually we've always had those same two parties, just under different names.

Federalists (Alexander Hamilton) -> Whigs (John Tyler) -> Modern Republicans

Republicans (Thomas Jefferson) -> Modern Democrats

I really hate the fact that I have two bowls of crap to chose from each election.

I forgot that not a single inventor came from American...nope, not a one. Not Benjamin Franklin or Robert Fulton.

Also take into account American has been around for just over 200 years, where as European civilization has been around for the better part of 2,000 years. Just slightly more time to come up with ideas.

Now you've confused me... wasn't the question what originated in the USA in the fields of philosophy and enlightenment?

I forgot that not a single inventor came from American...nope, not a one. Not Benjamin Franklin or Robert Fulton.

Also take into account American has been around for just over 200 years, where as European civilization has been around for the better part of 2,000 years. Just slightly more time to come up with ideas.

One problem, good old Ben wouldn't have counted himself as part of the 'mainstream' of US society, neither would have Edison.

An acceptable answer as to why Americans are Stupid would have been:

The American voting process is a obtuse method of registering, which most people just don't have the patience for...except the elderly. Local elections are decided largely in part by the elderly, so you can bet your children that spending good amounts of funding on Education would be committing political suicide. Seeing as why should the elderly care about money spent on children as opposed to money spent on them.

Instead, there is a strange assumption that Americans are born stupid because it's in our heritage. Present your argument for that one and I'll be impressed.

Our public education system is awful because the younger generation is not getting adequate representation when funds are dispersed.

Oh for the love of...

Let's just end this now:

America's dick:

http://county-map.digital-topo-maps.com/florida-county-map.gif

Europe's dick:

http://www.big-italy-map.co.uk/maps/italy%20400.jpg

There, now we can measure and all go home...

Now you've confused me... wasn't the question what originated in the USA in the fields of philosophy and enlightenment?

Again, 200 years is not a lot of time considering any major period of enlightenment happens once every thousand years.

Sartre's nemesis was actually an American doctor. (His name is on the tip of my tongue.) He was more of a scientist than a philosopher but he was the main brain behind conditioning.

One problem, good old Ben wouldn't have counted himself as part of the 'mainstream' of US society, neither would have Edison.

Just about anyone who has done anything wouldn't be considered part of mainstream society. That's what makes them above the average.

Oh for the love of...

Let's just end this now:

America's dick:

<snip>

Europe's dick:

<snip>

There, now we can measure and all go home...

And here was me thinking the Scandinavian peninsula was Europe's dick... :D

Oh for the love of...

Let's just end this now:

America's dick:

http://county-map.digital-topo-maps.com/florida-county-map.gif

Europe's dick:

http://www.big-italy-map.co.uk/maps/italy%20400.jpg

There, now we can measure and all go home...

The funny part; the two are obsticles to reform. Florida is an obsticle to agricultural reform - and *shock* Italy is too!

And here was me thinking the Scandinavian peninsula was Europe's dick... :D

Europes dick is on the top of it's head???

Neat.

but lets face it, New Zealand isn't interesting.

New Zealand is actually fascinating. I did my pre-doctoral thesis on New Zealand history, society and identity. Very interesting indeed.

For anyone whose interests go beyond the trite and superficial, that is.

Europes dick is on the top of it's head???

Neat.

So North is always on top? Cultural fascist! :p


;)

Oh for the love of...

Let's just end this now:

America's dick:

http://county-map.digital-topo-maps.com/florida-county-map.gif

Europe's dick:

http://www.big-italy-map.co.uk/maps/italy%20400.jpg

There, now we can measure and all go home...

America doesn't seem to have any balls...

So North is always on top? Cultural fascist! :p


;)

Oh yeah, well America's cock is Mexico...

That turned out more metaphorical than I wanted it to.

Oh yeah, well America's cock is Mexico...

That turned out more metaphorical than I wanted it to.
So that makes the States an enormous beerbelly or something?:p

So that makes the States an enormous beerbelly or something?:p

No, it's a 50 pack, that's how great of shape we Americans are in.

No, it's a 50 pack, that's how great of shape we Americans are in.That makes Canada the brains of the continent.:p

That makes Canada the brains of the continent.:p

No, just New Brunswick. :(

Are brain no large.

New Zealand is actually fascinating. I did my pre-doctoral thesis on New Zealand history, society and identity. Very interesting indeed.

For anyone whose interests go beyond the trite and superficial, that is.

I was born in New Zealand, I can assure you when ever New Zealand history is trotted out in the class room, there is a groan of 'do we have to learn this shit, can't we learn something a little more interesting".

We New Zealanders don't want to learn about New Zealand, it is as boring as bat shit. Give us something interesting like European or Asian History.

I was born in New Zealand, I can assure you when ever New Zealand history is trotted out in the class room, there is a groan of 'do we have to learn this shit, can't we learn something a little more interesting".

We New Zealanders don't want to learn about New Zealand, it is as boring as bat shit. Give us something interesting like European or Asian History.

Thats sad when you can't find the history of your own nation interesting :D

And here was me thinking the Scandinavian peninsula was Europe's dick... :D

I was going to use the whole European peninsula, but it just seemed unfair...

Mercure;13179017']It's quite simple. It goes right back to the founding of America. We were bred to be stupid.

First, the dregs of Europe were dumped into America. (Can't say that about anyone decended from an African. To survive the Middle Passage you had to be one tough MoFo)

Second, we Americans hate obvious aristocrats. The European tradition was that people with higher education were aristocrats. So Americans are suspicious of smart people. We celebrate the stupid. (GW Bush is a good example. Brittany Spears is another. And for Uber-Stupid - Paris Hilton) If you show any smarts in school you are called all sorts of nasty names and beaten up. It is even worse in African American communities. (Roommate taught in South Central LA...there's a whole culture of stupidity down there with expectations that you either leave the 'Hood as a rap star or b-ball hero.)It's strange that when people talk about smart people, they usually talk about the smart person's flaws. If the smart person has no flaws, the make up flaws, like saying they're arrogant or antisocial. Smart people aren't born antisocial, they sometimes end up that way because everyone hates them.

When I hear people talk about einstein, they don't talk about how great he was and how big an impact he had on the world. They talk about some lame thing he said about world peace, or they exaggerate his flaws by saying he couldn't talk until he was 5, he was a terrible student, ect.

People treat celebrities the same way though. People really abuse celebrities, their personal lives are torn apart sometimes completely fabricated.

Thats sad when you can't find the history of your own nation interesting :D

Well, we could do what the Americans do; find some obscure battle that happened between a soldier and a disgruntled goat herder then claim it was a 'major turning point in the nations history' - but given the cynical nature of the average NZ'der, it wouldn't fly.

Well, we could do what the Americans do; find some obscure battle that happened between a soldier and a disgruntled goat herder then claim it was a 'major turning point in the nations history' - but given the cynical nature of the average NZ'der, it wouldn't fly.

Such as?

According to wikipedia new zealand the only country where women are more promiscuous than men. That's all I remember about that country.

According to wikipedia new zealand the only country where women are more promiscuous than men. That's all I remember about that country.

Something about an evil lesbian prime minister too. Not my words.

It's strange that when people talk about smart people, they usually talk about the smart person's flaws. If the smart person has no flaws, the make up flaws, like saying they're arrogant or antisocial. Smart people aren't born antisocial, they sometimes end up that way because everyone hates them.

When I hear people talk about einstein, they don't talk about how great he was and how big an impact he had on the world. They talk about some lame thing he said about world peace, or they exaggerate his flaws by saying he couldn't talk until he was 5, he was a terrible student, ect.

People treat celebrities the same way though. People really abuse celebrities, their personal lives are torn apart sometimes completely fabricated.

Actually, the flaws you talk about with Einstein are used as examples of a person who got off their ass, worked hard and became a success.

As for anti-social; one becomes more anti-social as one becomes smarter as one becomes less naive about the world around.

I find its difficult to be optimistic given how aware I am of how stupid people are. I mean, we're talking about people who have children knowing full well they can't afford to have them! we're talking about people who struggle to pay their bills and yet, put their pay-tv above the education of their children. Fucking common sense stuff.

The people you find that are the most social and happy, are the ignorant and the stupid.

According to wikipedia new zealand the only country where women are more promiscuous than men. That's all I remember about that country.

We also drink apparently dangerous amounts of alcohol - one of the highest in the world.

On, and Helen Clarke, its a well known secret that she is at least bisexual.

Actually, the flaws you talk about with Einstein are used as examples of a person who got off their ass, worked hard and became a success.

As for anti-social; one becomes more anti-social as one becomes smarter as one becomes less naive about the world around.

I find its difficult to be optimistic given how aware I am of how stupid people are. I mean, we're talking about people who have children knowing full well they can't afford to have them! we're talking about people who struggle to pay their bills and yet, put their pay-tv above the education of their children. Fucking common sense stuff.

The people you find that are the most social and happy, are the ignorant and the stupid.Gifted kids who are allowed to skip grades when they're young grow up to be socially adjusted. Most gifted kids are forced to stay back with their less intelligent peers so they don't make friends and often become withdrawn. It depends on how the people they're surrounded by act.

Einstein did have some problems when he was younger, but he wasn't as dysfunctional as people make him out to be. He was a quiet kid, not incapable of talking like people often say.

I can see you've read at least the first 2 chapters of the book lies my teacher told me.

While I did model my prose after Zinn the ideas are a compilation of both Master's work and my current Ph.D in Psychology and Education. One of the books I have quoted in my study was Zinn's book, however in just under (200 pages so far) I delved a little deeper than that. But I'm glad someone else has read his work as it does hold a lot of truth.

This concept is not new. Many Americans view the world through an ethnocentric, and even xenophobice lens. The more educated people get the less they tend to rely on these safe stereotypes. Due to the fact that many of us never leave the country, or sometimes even our home states, we are limited in how we see the world. So along with a skewed view of our country we have an even worse picture of the world around us. As far as intelligence goes we're at the top of the food chain. Our innovation is mirrored by many. When it comes to cultural awareness we are severely lacking.

While I did model my prose after Zinn the ideas are a compilation of both Master's work and my current Ph.D in Psychology and Education. One of the books I have quoted in my study was Zinn's book, however in just under (200 pages so far) I delved a little deeper than that. But I'm glad someone else has read his work as it does hold a lot of truth.

This concept is not new. Many Americans view the world through an ethnocentric, and even xenophobice lens. The more educated people get the less they tend to rely on these safe stereotypes. Due to the fact that many of us never leave the country, or sometimes even our home states, we are limited in how we see the world. So along with a skewed view of our country we have an even worse picture of the world around us. As far as intelligence goes we're at the top of the food chain. Our innovation is mirrored by many. When it comes to cultural awareness we are severely lacking.

What I also notice is a lack of adopting of culture in a two way fashion. The US is very happy to export their culture but unwilling to incorporate other cultures as part of the larger "American Culture".

Come to New Zealand for example and look at the fusion of Polynesia/Maori/European/Asian culture. The New Zealand culture of today, looks like nothing from 50 years ago. Compare that to America, it looks the same as it did when I went there 20 years ago. Father said the same thing, looks the same as it did 30 years ago.

What I also notice is a lack of adopting of culture in a two way fashion. The US is very happy to export their culture but unwilling to incorporate other cultures as part of the larger "American Culture".

Come to New Zealand for example and look at the fusion of Polynesia/Maori/European/Asian culture. The New Zealand culture of today, looks like nothing from 50 years ago. Compare that to America, it looks the same as it did when I went there 20 years ago. Father said the same thing, looks the same as it did 30 years ago.

Hey, we got rid of Disco. One step at a time, please.

Hey, we got rid of Disco. One step at a time, please.

yeap, swapped it for Mexican food - the only food which has atleast one sort of baked bean in every dish. Its like the spam skit from Monty Python.

While I did model my prose after Zinn the ideas are a compilation of both Master's work and my current Ph.D in Psychology and Education. One of the books I have quoted in my study was Zinn's book, however in just under (200 pages so far) I delved a little deeper than that. But I'm glad someone else has read his work as it does hold a lot of truth.

This concept is not new. Many Americans view the world through an ethnocentric, and even xenophobice lens. The more educated people get the less they tend to rely on these safe stereotypes. Due to the fact that many of us never leave the country, or sometimes even our home states, we are limited in how we see the world. So along with a skewed view of our country we have an even worse picture of the world around us. As far as intelligence goes we're at the top of the food chain. Our innovation is mirrored by many. When it comes to cultural awareness we are severely lacking.

I think part of this is that we are taught, from a very early age, a form of History of the US that is very goody-goody, gumdrops and happy ness, daisys and unicorn version. The Revolutionary War was all about gaining freedom, and "No representation blah blah blah", when in actuality it was mostly an economic war(Damn those English for putting a few pence tax on the colonies, most of which those in England were paying out the ass for, and Damn those English for enforces taxes on French rum being illegally imported into the colonies). Or the Mexican American war, and the Texas revolution. Few people know, or realize, that once Texas gained independence, the made an agreement to have Texas basically be smaller than it is today. Texans were happy with this. The US wanted to incorporate a bit of a bigger part of Texas into the Union, sent troops over the agreed upon boundary of Texas, who were shot at by the Mexicans(Who had claim to that area, of course), which began the whole mess. Or the mere fact that the Texans were given their land by the Mexicans, and the whole fact that one of the Texans main concerns was that Mexico outlawed slavery, which the Texans did not want to give up, really. That's not usually mentioned.

Move into modern day, we have our current Idiot in Chief saying that we were attacked on 9/11 because "terrahists hate our freedoms!", when instead it is due largely to our actions in the middle during the 1980's(Not justifying the actions, just explaining them), and all you get is this this pretty, non-realistic, idealistic view that America is always right, always does the good thing, and doesn't do anything bad.

Of course, when you get down to it, the US has done many things which are shit-covered shit balls with a nice nuggety center of shit. But, it's hard to criticize your own nation, and easy to accept that it always does the best possible thing evar. Basically, people are lazy.

yeap, swapped it for Mexican food - the only food which has atleast one sort of baked bean in every dish. Its like the spam skit from Monty Python.

That's Tex-Mex. Actual Mexican food is edible.

That's Tex-Mex. Actual Mexican food is edible.

Should give it a try. Mind you, the worse meal - chinese made by a New Zealander - dear god its crap. What is it with flavourless crap like 'sweet and sour'? designed for the white trash contingent who like all their meats with sweet sauces ontop?

Should give it a try. Mind you, the worse meal - chinese made by a New Zealander - dear god its crap. What is it with flavourless crap like 'sweet and sour'? designed for the white trash contingent who like all their meats with sweet sauces ontop?

You know, I haven't figured that out myself. "Sweet and sour" beef? What. The. Hell. It's like eating slimy rotting food. Only that is actually pallatable, but "sweet and sour" anything is just to far.

However, that's not saying all chinese food is great. Just look up 100 year-old-eggs. Eck.

However, there is some "chinese"(A very loose term, as anything chinese in the US is bound to Americanised, and I have yet to find anything remotely authentic) that is good. Usually anything spicy. I love spicy.

You know, I haven't figured that out myself. "Sweet and sour" beef? What. The. Hell. It's like eating slimy rotting food. Only that is actually pallatable, but "sweet and sour" anything is just to far.

However, that's not saying all chinese food is great. Just look up 100 year-old-eggs. Eck.

However, there is some "chinese"(A very loose term, as anything chinese in the US is bound to Americanised, and I have yet to find anything remotely authentic) that is good. Usually anything spicy. I love spicy.

Most of the 'chinese food' which chinese eat are very basic at best. Mind you, when it comes to health, Chinese food, with all the oil and so forth isn't very healthy.

For me, I love Indian, especially the vegetarian dishes - I could go vegetarian (I only eat chicken and fish) but I'm too lazy going to all the effort trying to find innovative ways of making meals with meat substitutes.

becasue most americans are to lazy or ignorant to care about learning or the outside world

Thank you for your kind and well-considered words there, Sycorema.

All countries are, by necessity, partisan. It fosters patriotism and solidarity. Unfortunately, such also breeds parochialism, such as the infamous Christian fundamentalists that are apparently prevalent in the US Deep South or the lamentable football hooligans that are rife in the UK.

All nations have stupid people. Statistically, large nations have more stupid people. The USA is only 5% of the world's population and thus is likely to only have 5% of the world's genetically stupid people. Any shortfall in numbers may simply be down to shoddy education, falling standards or suchlike.

There is of course the truism, though, that those with the biggest mouths are likely to be noticed more, for better or for ill.

That's Tex-Mex. Actual Mexican food is edible.
:gundge:

Obviously you've never had any really good homemade tamales.

Indeed. I always loved reading as a kid, and I found it a little sad that not all kids did.



You're kidding, right?! They've done no such thing. There's a strong feeling of guilt always very near the surface in most Germans I've met. When I was 16 I had a German penpal, and I was stunned at how guilty he felt about WW2. He assumed no-one in France would have forgiven the Germans yet, and I had to explain to him that most French people rather like the Germans these days (when we bother to think about them at all).



Yup. I spent a week in Germany on a school exchange programme, and they took us to the Buchenwald extermination camp.



Interesting. Thank you for that.

Welcome Sir. I must say that I took the basic premise from lies my teacher told me by Zinn. It is part of a number of different things that have shaped my views towards pyschology and education. The underlying theme of my thesis is that almost "everything I was ever told was a lie." I was lied to by my father, the colonel. I was lied to by my teachers, leaders, and boot and OCS superiors. The wanted me to be patriotic and I am. Perhaps I am not blindly patriotic like they wanted me to be, but who cares about that? I value my country, its people, and all of humanity far too much to see things in black and white.