NationStates Jolt Archive

USA authorities treated British minister as a terrorist

Shahid Malik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahid_Malik), Britain’s minister for International Development was being detained at Dulles Airport in Washington DC, where his hand luggage was analysed for traces of explosive materials.

This is so ridiculous and frightening as well.

If they can’t notice the difference between a minister and a suspected terrorist, then they can’t stop the real terrorists as well.

It’s obvious that the US authorities are using some weird parameters to check people. Having an Arab name seems enough.

This is making it easy for Muslim terrorists. All what they have to do is sending some ‘Smiths’, ‘Johnsons’ or ‘Williams’ to USA to perform a terrorist attack INSIDE America...

Just a question for the law guys here: Aren't ministers having diplomatic immunity, anyway?

When president miss Bush (http://www.commondreams.org/views01/images/0330-01.jpg) would return to UK, they should check everything, including a butt inspection.

You never know, what one can find in that hole, isn’t? And lock him up, he is a war criminal!

Source:
http://news.aol.co.uk/muslim-minister-detained-at-airport/article/20071028164809990010

I've often noted that Americans who takes jobs with a position of authority, from police to immigration, tend to adopt an air of complete and officious ass-holiness.

From being pulled over, in a wedding car (was not the groom), to be inspected for DUI, to joking with a policeman and being severely reprimanded as well as hauled off at immigration to have my bags inspected for, again, essentially being friendly, I've rarely met an official in America who doesn't expect complete subservience and humility in the face of their awesome powerz.

Perhaps I've been unlucky but the lack of approachability has always disturbed me.

Here's another example, I'm not sure sure it's an indicator of paranoia as opposed to simply exerting their powers in the face of all common sense and humanity.

Welcome to Airport Security, lead by the efficient, oh so competent TSA (Throughly Shitty Agency).

This is far from rare. Everyone that travels alot by air in the US is subjected to hours of security screening. It seems more often then not, I'm detained for a few while they search me and my things. Mind you, I'm a white male.

And now we see the ingrained xenophobic racism of the American psyche.

I've often noted that Americans who takes jobs with a position of authority, from police to immigration, tend to adopt an air of complete and officious ass-holiness.

From being pulled over, in a wedding car (was not the groom), to be inspected for DUI, to joking with a policeman and being severely reprimanded as well as hauled off at immigration to have my bags inspected for, again, essentially being friendly, I've rarely met an official in America who doesn't expect complete subservience and humility in the face of their awesome powerz.


Strange that you might say that, but I've heard that a number of times, the first being back in the early 1980's...From people who went to work there. They were hardly "fuck the po-po" types either....One was an engineer and the other worked in a bank....

Every time I read something like thia I'm put off more and more about visiting the USA.

I've often noted that Americans who takes jobs with a position of authority, from police to immigration, tend to adopt an air of complete and officious ass-holiness.

From being pulled over, in a wedding car (was not the groom), to be inspected for DUI, to joking with a policeman and being severely reprimanded as well as hauled off at immigration to have my bags inspected for, again, essentially being friendly, I've rarely met an official in America who doesn't expect complete subservience and humility in the face of their awesome powerz.

Perhaps I've been unlucky but the lack of approachability has always disturbed me.

Here's another example, I'm not sure sure it's an indicator of paranoia as opposed to simply exerting their powers in the face of all common sense and humanity.


Ass-holinees. Such an excellent word. :)

Shahid Malik, Britain’s minister for International Development was being detained at Dulles Airport in Washington DC,


It’s obvious that the US authorities are using some weird parameters to check people. Having an Arab name seems enough.

That's not an Arab name. It's Pakistani. Due to the large number of Brit-Paks visiting Pak and it being the place to go for training, British citizens are put through stricter security measures to make sure nobody with a British passport slips through.

This is not new either. They did that with George Fernandes, former defense minister of India. As the name indicates he is a Christian.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3892657.stm
US apologises over body search
The US has apologised to former Indian Defence Minister George Fernandes after he was body searched during visits to Washington in the last two years.

Welcome to Airport Security, lead by the efficient, oh so competent TSA (Throughly Shitty Agency).

This is far from rare. Everyone that travels alot by air in the US is subjected to hours of security screening. It seems more often then not, I'm detained for a few while they search me and my things. Mind you, I'm a white male.

I have put in 80,000+ miles this year. I fly every week. Only once were I asked to go through additional screening. I am brown with an unpronounceable name. It's got nothing to do with looks and names. If you make changes to your flight rather late, you get the SSSS in your boarding pass which means you get additional screening. I have seen frail old grandmas pulled aside. Maybe somewhere somebody is profiling. I have not seen any evidence of that personally, despite my frequent flying.

I have also flown in and out of the country. Immigration officials may not be the most pleasant and warm folks out there...but I have not had any bad experience with them either.

IMO, It is wrong to generalize American staff based on policy set by a few asses up in the hierarchy.

You never know, what one can find in that hole,

His head? Well, that or a few reasons for the Iraq invasion he hasn't pulled out yet.

So you bitch when our airport security system is egalitarian, or is this thread just another NSG "Hate on America" thread? What the fuck do you want us to do?

You want airport horror stories? Frankfurt International is the one that won real big with me. The Grenzschutzdienst opened my bags to inspect them, and didn't close the left latch. As a result, the firmly packed porcelain Stein I had spent 50 Euros on broke into a thousand pieces, and the BRD refused to compensate me for their Employees inability to succeed at life. While in the airport, I got felt up by a creepy middle aged German man in a uniform, whilst his three buddies pointed MP5's at me, It was a truly awful experience.

Hell, I've been searched plenty of times, and I'm all too aware of that swab they use for checking explosives. I'm about as white as they come, with a solid Anglo-Saxon name.

Basically, what happened to Minister Malik is a result of a complete lack of official profiling, just as when they search grandmothers or celebrities.

Experienced fliers such as Aryavartha here are generally able to get through without much hassle because they plan in advance and can go through the checkpoints with ease. Also, I notice that if I look hassled or irritated my chances go up of getting the wand treatment. That's about the only criteria for minimizing your chances of getting pulled aside.

If the good minister claims he was treated as a terrorist, then he's just grandstanding for political points (stick it to the yanks... etc). He has to know how things work. If he just criticized the system of airport security then kudos, I agree.

^lol. I never fly through Europe. If I am in west coast, I take Korean or Singapore. If I am in east coast, I take Delta or even the goddamned Indian Airline, but never an European connection after the whole transit visa moneymaking scam they started in many European countries.

Welcome to Airport Security, lead by the efficient, oh so competent TSA (Throughly Shitty Agency).

This is far from rare. Everyone that travels alot by air in the US is subjected to hours of security screening. It seems more often then not, I'm detained for a few while they search me and my things. Mind you, I'm a white male.

And he's a Member of Parliament and a Minister in the British government (not a religious minister, he heads a Ministry in government), so it's a bit absurd to be searching him.

I note that the BBC's report on this says that last November he was over in the US as the keynote speaker at an event organised by the Department of Homeland Security, and the FBI. On leaving the country he was searched, that time as well, by...the Department of Homeland Security!

Hell, what am I thinking, I (Mr. Whitebread with Mayonnaise) flew through Dulles with a Pakistani this spring, now that I think about it, and I was the one who got searched. How about that one?

People I know who've visited the US recently have come back with "interesting" stories of going through customs.

When my sister went to California with her boyfriend, they asked her how come she spoke good English and he didn't. (They're both French, but she's half-British.) Apparently, they found that suspicious. Then they asked her what hotel she'd be staying at. She explained that she didn't know: she was joining an organised tour who were waiting to pick her up at the airport. They liked that even less, and detained them, holding them both in a room for a while and barraging them with questions before finally allowing them into the country.

More recently, my cousin went to Florida with his aunt and cousin. They asked him how old he was.

My cousin: "I'm 16."
Official: "You don't look 16."
My cousin: "Well, I am."
Official: "Are you sure?"
My cousin: "You've got my passport in your hand. If you look at my date of birth, you'll see I'm 16."
Official: "Hmmm. You don't look 16."
My cousin: "Uhm... Just... look at my passport, please?"
Official: "Are you sure you're 16? You're not trying to lie to us?"
My cousin: "Look, you've got my passport, I'm not sure what more proof I can give you..."

Once that was settled, they asked him why his bag was much smaller than his cousin's.

My cousin: "Well, I haven't packed much."
Official: "So why is his bag bigger than yours?"
My cousin: "Well... Presumably because he's packed more."

Anyway, detaining Mr. Malik -twice within the span of 11 months, according to the BBC article- proves there's something rather wrong with their system.

And he's a Member of Parliament and a Minister in the British government (not a religious minister, he heads a Ministry in government), so it's a bit absurd to be searching him.

I note that the BBC's report on this says that last November he was over in the US as the keynote speaker at an event organised by the Department of Homeland Security, and the FBI. On leaving the country he was searched, that time as well, by...the Department of Homeland Security!

So? This is the TSA, TSO peons have low morale, low expertise and low pay. They're liable to not be able to tell the difference between an MP and Cabinet Minister and an English Muffin.

Hell, what am I thinking, I (Mr. Whitebread with Mayonnaise) flew through Dulles with a Pakistani this spring, now that I think about it, and I was the one who got searched. How about that one?

Maybe you look ugly. I don't know.

People I know who've visited the US recently have come back with "interesting" stories of going through customs.

When my sister went to California with her boyfriend, they asked her how come she spoke good English and he didn't. (They're both French, but she's half-British.) Apparently, they found that suspicious. Then they asked her what hotel she'd be staying at. She explained that she didn't know: she was joining an organised tour who were waiting to pick her up at the airport. They liked that even less, and detained them, holding them both in a room for a while and barraging them with questions before finally allowing them into the country.

Sounds like when I went through German customs, only without the gun-toting krauts.

Seriously, we can bitch and moan about airport security everywhere for the simple reason that everywhere airport security sucks. It's a major hassle, it's a pain. You, and several other posters here, are acting like it's something that's only endemic in the United States. It isn't, your precious magical paradise of Europe has airport security douchebaggery as well.

Maybe you look ugly. I don't know.

Oh for the love of...

In the US airport screening is a genuinely random process. That's why we routinely hear about this sort of thing for celebrities, politicians and others. They get all indignant that some underpaid peon in a crappy uniform doesn't know who they are, make a stink with the press, how "there's no way they could be a terrorist", and after a little while it gets forgotten about.

Maybe you look ugly. I don't know.

Or the process is random :rolleyes:.

Or the process is random :rolleyes:.

You’re not a minister of some country. You’re just Andaluciae, with all respect.

Sure, I understand that such airport people can’t know all faces of the government people from the entire globe. But I think it’s rather easy to solve this problem, isn’t?

And if they are checking people at random then I wouldn’t feel safe at all.

Goddamn, my last name is almost the same as his and I'm flying to the states soon.

In the US airport screening is a genuinely random process. That's why we routinely hear about this sort of thing for celebrities, politicians and others. They get all indignant that some underpaid peon in a crappy uniform doesn't know who they are, make a stink with the press, how "there's no way they could be a terrorist", and after a little while it gets forgotten about.
Yes, it's purely random, the brown people with arabic sounding names just happen to be unlucky.

So you know, one of my american friends was visiting the states for school. On the way back, he was travelling with his iranian officemate. Now, my friend had never been searched at the airport until his officemate, who had to arrive 12 hours early to get her visa "cancelled without prejudice" requested a bulkhead seat for her and her friend who was going to show up later in the day. Once he mentioned that he was travelling with his iranian friend, they wrote "SSS" on his boarding ticket (they'd already written this on hers) and they both got searched before before they could leave. So yes, tell me that searches are completely random.

Goddamn, my last name is almost the same as his and I'm flying to the states soon.

...

You're not white?

Yes, it's purely random, the brown people with arabic sounding names just happen to be unlucky.

As well as some of Cheney's staffers, multiple congressmen (Tim Ryan comes readily to mind) and others. I just know that some Arabic folks are more willing to bitch about it than anyone else.

Yes, it's purely random, the brown people with arabic sounding names just happen to be unlucky.

So you know, one of my american friends was visiting the states for school. On the way back, he was travelling with his iranian officemate. Now, my friend had never been searched at the airport until his officemate, who had to arrive 12 hours early to get her visa "cancelled without prejudice" requested a bulkhead seat for her and her friend who was going to show up later in the day. Once he mentioned that he was travelling with his iranian friend, they wrote "SSS" on his boarding ticket (they'd already written this on hers) and they both got searched before before they could leave. So yes, tell me that searches are completely random.

That one's because your friend's friend requested a seating change. Not because of race.

Seating changes require automatic extra security.

Sounds like when I went through German customs, only without the gun-toting krauts.

Seriously, we can bitch and moan about airport security everywhere for the simple reason that everywhere airport security sucks. It's a major hassle, it's a pain. You, and several other posters here, are acting like it's something that's only endemic in the United States. It isn't, your precious magical paradise of Europe has airport security douchebaggery as well.

Panama Customs were nice. Of course...that was back in 1998 so maybe customs has changed there over the years. Actually...when I came back to the US, I had zero problems as well.

Shahid Malik, Britain’s minister for International Development was being detained at Dulles Airport in Washington DC, where his hand luggage was analysed for traces of explosive materials.
He should be grateful they didn't 'nap him and post him off to Egypt or someplace where he could have had his balls crushed in a vice til he admitted to whatever terrorist activities they felt like accusing him of.

As well as some of Cheney's staffers, multiple congressmen (Tim Ryan comes readily to mind) and others. I just know that some Arabic folks are more willing to bitch about it than anyone else.

I'm willing to bet at least a bit of profiling is happening somewhere in the system though. Not necessarily widespread, but somewhere. I'd be far more surprised if it wasn't happening.

Yes, it's purely random, the brown people with arabic sounding names just happen to be unlucky.

Then tell me why most of the people searched are not of Arabic desent?

He should be grateful they didn't 'nap him and post him off to Egypt or someplace where he could have had his balls crushed in a vice til he admitted to whatever terrorist activities they felt like accusing him of.

Oh for the love :headbang:

This affront to Her Majesty's Government can not go unpunished. I say we send a couple of gunboats to blockade their ports. That will soon bring their economy to its knees.

I'm willing to bet at least a bit of profiling is happening somewhere in the system though. Not necessarily widespread, but somewhere. I'd be far more surprised if it wasn't happening.

Of course, that sort of thing is nearly impossible to weed out, but it's not systemic or institutional. After all, when I flew into Port Columbus half of the screener staff were Muslim Women, one of them a Somali. Like they're going to profile Muslims.

...

You're not white?
I am white.

Of course, that sort of thing is nearly impossible to weed out, but it's not systemic or institutional. After all, when I flew into Port Columbus half of the screener staff were Muslim Women, one of them a Somali. Like they're going to profile Muslims.
That doesn't mean the profiling that does happen should be accepted though. It simply means that we need to be more careful to weed it out, to use your metaphor.

I am white.
Well now I'm confused. I just want to make sure I get the mental image I picture right, though, not that you being anything means anything in terms of how I'd treat you or something, in case I accidentally gave you that impression.

Then tell me why most of the people searched are not of Arabic desent?
Because people of arabic descent are a minority of travellers? Also it probably doesn't help that they don't distinguish between travellers of arabic descent and "anyone who looks brown/is from a country in the middle east" i.e., my friend's officemate is persian, not arabic. Apparently she doesn't care much for the arabs either. But every time she travels through the US she gets searched and questioned for an extended time.

Well now I'm confused. I just want to make sure I get the mental image I picture right, though, not that you being anything means anything in terms of how I'd treat you or something, in case I accidentally gave you that impression.
My last name seems to pop up a bunch in eastern europe and the middle east. Parts of my family are from the former.

Oh for the love :headbang:
Yes, because it's not like they didn't illegally detain a canadian citizen originally from Syria and manage to get him shipped back there to be tortured.

Goddamn, my last name is almost the same as his and I'm flying to the states soon.

Maybe they welcome you as a British Minister, big limo, nice hot and free women, champagne... :)

Yes, because it's not like they didn't illegally detain a canadian citizen originally from Syria and manage to get him shipped back there to be tortured.

We're talking about Air Port Security here and not the CIA!

Because people of arabic descent are a minority of travellers? Also it probably doesn't help that they don't distinguish between travellers of arabic descent and "anyone who looks brown/is from a country in the middle east" i.e., my friend's officemate is persian, not arabic. Apparently she doesn't care much for the arabs either. But every time she travels through the US she gets searched and questioned for an extended time.

Or maybe because repeated studies have shown that profiling is far less distinct than one might assume. There's an active movement amongst some right wing groups to get the TSA to drop it's anti-profiling policy, so if profiling is policy, then why would this group even exist?

My last name seems to pop up a bunch in eastern europe and the middle east. Parts of my family are from the former.

Oh, okay. Everything makes sense now. Thank you.

Maybe they welcome you as a British Minister, big limo, nice hot and free women, champagne... :)
I am a hot woman.

We're talking about Air Port Security here and not the CIA!
Airport security picked the guy up and handed him to other agencies. They held him for a couple of months (or a year, I can't remember), refused to charge him with anything or let him see his lawyer and then got him shipped off to Syria despite the fact that he was travelling from Zurich and just going through New York to catch a connecting flight to get home, was a Canadian citizen and had left Syria to keep from being tortured in the first place.

Just a question for the law guys here: Aren't ministers having diplomatic immunity, anyway?
:rolleyes:
Yes... they should... but "diplomacy" and "US" don't fit easily in the same sentence, to-day.

Btw, "diplomatic" from "diploma", that is, a formal script, like a "diplomatic" passport...

I'd love seeing Her British Majesty challenging His Shrubness to a duel, to wash away the insult. After all, it's Her Majesty, as Head of the State, who grants the diplomatic passports and formally asks all other countries to recognise them.

;) Her British Majesty: A Macho Woman With Guns!

Airport security picked the guy up and handed him to other agencies. They held him for a couple of months (or a year, I can't remember), refused to charge him with anything or let him see his lawyer and then got him shipped off to Syria despite the fact that he was travelling from Zurich and just going through New York to catch a connecting flight to get home.

Linkie please.

Oh, okay. Everything makes sense now. Thank you.
Happy to help.

Or the process is random :rolleyes:.


Or you're really ugly.

Linkie please.


Thats the guy the US house apolgised to, I think. The Canadian.....

Linkie please.
Oh sorry, he was only held for two weeks in the US without a lawyer before being shipped off to Syria. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar

Oh sorry, he was only held for two weeks in the US without a lawyer before being shipped off to Syria. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar

News article?

[SIZE="7"]If they can’t notice the difference between a minister and a suspected terrorist

I'm wondering if you could tell he was a british minister just by looking at him?

Just a question for the law guys here: Aren't ministers having diplomatic immunity, anyway?

Doubtful. They're not diplomats.

:rolleyes:
Yes... they should... but "diplomacy" and "US" don't fit easily in the same sentence, to-day.

Btw, "diplomatic" from "diploma", that is, a formal script, like a "diplomatic" passport...

I'd love seeing Her British Majesty challenging His Shrubness to a duel, to wash away the insult. After all, it's Her Majesty, as Head of the State, who grants the diplomatic passports and formally asks all other countries to recognise them.

;) Her British Majesty: A Macho Woman With Guns!

Immunity from arrest, that's the key there. Airport security is not a process in which you undergo arrest.

Of course, it also depends on what they're up to in that other country. If they're there for state reasons, then likely they do have DI, if they're there for personal pleasure or personal business, then I suspect not.

What is really funny is that the first time this happened to him he had been to a meeting with the Department of Homeland Security.

News article?
Check the bottom of the wiki link, there are tons.

Or go here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/arar/ it's not quite a news article, but the cbc compiled a bunch of articles and all.

Or you're really ugly.

Nah, I'm just so-so. Close cut blonde hair, fifteen extra pounds around the waist, clean face, normal eyes, little (if any) acne. Nothing particularly ugly or handsome.

Doubtful. They're not diplomats.

Of course, it also depends on what they're up to in that other country. If they're there for state reasons, then likely they do have DI, if they're there for personal pleasure or personal business, then I suspect not.

Whenever a minister, or a MP, or some other high-ranking officer of the State goes abroad on government businesses, they are given diplomatic passports, either from the Cabinet, or from the Parliament. And since the guy was there to meet members of the US government...

Oh, and about the extent of immunity: DI means not just immunity from arrest, like a MP in his own homeland: it means "not being subjected to the laws of the foreign State they're in". If someone with DI kills someone in a foreign country, he's going to be expelled as persona non grata, and eventually undergo trial in his own country, according to his home country's laws.

In this case, the minister (assuming he had DI) was to be allowed through, because he was being held by the US police acting according to US laws, and he isn't subject to US laws - btw, the US police was violating some other US laws - those who regulate the status of foreign diplomats.

Check the bottom of the wiki link, there are tons.

Or go here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/arar/ it's not quite a news article, but the cbc compiled a bunch of articles and all.

At least its something better than wikipedia.

Whenever a minister, or a MP, or some other high-ranking officer of the State goes abroad on government businesses, they are given diplomatic passports, either from the Cabinet, or from the Parliament. And since the guy was there to meet members of the US government...

which raises the question, was he asked for his passport, and if not, did he offer it?

Nah, I'm just so-so. Close cut blonde hair, fifteen extra pounds around the waist, clean face, normal eyes, little (if any) acne. Nothing particularly ugly or handsome.

Yeah. You're lucky. Some of us are born good lookin and end up payin for it for the rest of our lives.......

At least its something better than wikipedia.

So long as the article doesn't have the "Neutrality of this article is disputed" or "lacks citation" or "something Kyronea has yet to see" it's most likely something you can accept. Wikipedia has at least the standards of the Encyclopedia Brittania, after all, and probably better besides, the insults of Stephen Colbert and other people not withstanding.

At least its something better than wikipedia.
Umm... ok. It contains essentially the same information. Except that the wiki article links to a variety of news sources while the cbc links only to cbc articles. I don't get why wikipedia is considered to be so unreliable, they have done studies and it's just as reliable as any other encyclopedia.

At least its something better than wikipedia.

When my Dad was in Canada the Maher Arar case was on the front page of the Toronto Star, he brought a copy of it home because a guy at the think tank I worked for was quoted in the story. It's legit, and it's a pretty big deal.

He should be grateful they didn't 'nap him and post him off to Egypt or someplace where he could have had his balls crushed in a vice til he admitted to whatever terrorist activities they felt like accusing him of.

leet mie geez. is iet pozibel tat jou heive a gunz in tha houze?

I am a hot woman.

Maybe they welcome you as a British Minister, big limo, nice hot and free men, champagne, a nail service, a fresh hair cut and some haute couture... :)

Yes, because it's not like they didn't illegally detain a canadian citizen originally from Syria and manage to get him shipped back there to be tortured.
Or that German guy they kidnapped and sent to Afghanistan to be tortured, simply because his name's similar to someone else:
Khaled el-Masri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri)
Or the Algerian they kidnapped and sent to Afghanistan to be tortured, simply because they misheard a word he said:
Laid Saidi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laid_Saidi)

But hey, Corny - keep using the wall-headbutt smiley whenever truth jumps up and down in front of you. Best way to ignore reality, innit?

When my Dad was in Canada the Maher Arar case was on the front page of the Toronto Star, he brought a copy of it home because a guy at the think tank I worked for was quoted in the story. It's legit, and it's a pretty big deal.
Yeah really. I mean people here (the RCMP) fucked up too, but they didn't think the US would ship the poor guy to Syria.

Maybe they welcome you as a British Minister, big limo, nice hot and free men, champagne, a nail service, a fresh hair cut and some haute couture... :)
Haha. Well, I'm going to Hawaii to observe at the JCMT, I think I'm getting put up in a place that isn't too expensive and probably some advice on dealing with drastic altitude changes. Not exactly manicures but much more awesome. :)

Umm... ok. It contains essentially the same information. Except that the wiki article links to a variety of news sources while the cbc links only to cbc articles. I don't get why wikipedia is considered to be so unreliable, they have done studies and it's just as reliable as any other encyclopedia.
It's unreliable when it starts using factual information readily available that causes cognitive dissonance within the reader.

Corny doesn't - nay, can't - admit that his beloved Bush admin would do anything as dreadful as sponsor rendition, kidnapping, and being a party to torture (even though they've admitted it themselves) and thus will first blithely dismiss any claims to these facts (usually with a well-considered smiley as added effect) and when confronted with documented proof, then seek to attack the source of the proof.
Easiest thing to do.
Much easier than, say, waking up to the fact that your beloved govt has (and still does) actively play a hand in the kidnapping and torturing of innocent peoples.

Umm... ok. It contains essentially the same information. Except that the wiki article links to a variety of news sources while the cbc links only to cbc articles. I don't get why wikipedia is considered to be so unreliable, they have done studies and it's just as reliable as any other encyclopedia.

In fact it is a little worse, but not hard.

Also, articles that are changed a lot are the most accurate.

The older wiki will be, the more accurate it will be as well.

I consider it for using as reference here on this board a more than adequate source.

which raises the question, was he asked for his passport, and if not, did he offer it?

afaik, showing the diplomatic passport to police officers is mandatory for people with DI - of course.

Yeah really. I mean people here (the RCMP) fucked up too, but they didn't think the US would ship the poor guy to Syria.

I've done a lot of work with Homeland Security, and rendition is the most weasly, useless method of "solving" a problem imaginable. I don't get why we insist on sending these folks off to be tortured by someone else. We're not gonna get useful information out of them anyway if they're tortured, especially if their innocent, but even if they're terrorists.

When my Dad was in Canada the Maher Arar case was on the front page of the Toronto Star, he brought a copy of it home because a guy at the think tank I worked for was quoted in the story. It's legit, and it's a pretty big deal.

Well I figured that hence the request for a link. It was provided and I will be looking at it.

which raises the question, was he asked for his passport, and if not, did he offer it?
Maybe they just decided that it was a fake, cause there's no way possible a Muslim could be a British MP.

In their defence (and being serious for a change), they could well be more scrutinise of a DI, due to the fact with one you can possibly get away with a lot more (what you declare, where you can go, that sort of thing). Doesn't excuse them doing it twice to the guy though.

>>Originally Posted by Edwinasia
[size="7"]If they can’t notice the difference between a minister and a suspected terrorist

>I'm wondering if you could tell he was a british minister just by looking at him?

Of course you can! For one thing, they look, well, Ministerial. And British. So look for a guy with a funny accent, bad teeth, and a peculiar walk. And excellent tailoring. Bad teeth, bespoke suit, there's your British minister, right there. That's called "profiling"- the art of telling at first glance exactly what someone is. Funny thing is, the same people who insist that we should spot a British minister instantly, and provide all customary protocols of state to anyone who matches the profile, are the ones who would get bent out of shape if we did the same to a terrorist. (who is entitled to somewhat different "protocols")

Hey, lighten up, you do what you can do. In the words of Carlos Mencia, that's America, B****! Everyone hates us, and yet, since 9-11 there have been no bombings here. We must be doing SOMETHING right.

Although I suspect one of the reasons we're hated so much is that there are no bombings here. People hate you if you are obnoxious, arrogant and pig headed; they hate you more if you are obnoxious, arrogant, pig headed, and RIGHT.

Let's face it, we are arrogant and abusive and we are also right. We are the smartass nobody likes to talk to. We would have more friends if we just went a little easier, backed down more often, and had an occassional bomb in a bus, or something cathartic like that.

Of course, it would suck to be in that bus, but hey, all in the interest of world peace, I suppose.

It's unreliable when it starts using factual information readily available that causes cognitive dissonance within the reader.

Um no. I just do not use it for research purposes.

Corny doesn't - nay, can't - admit that his beloved Bush admin would do anything as dreadful as sponsor rendition, kidnapping, and being a party to torture (even though they've admitted it themselves) and thus will first blithely dismiss any claims to these facts (usually with a well-considered smiley as added effect) and when confronted with documented proof, then seek to attack the source of the proof.

Would you care to back up where I denied this occured? I could also dig into this post and prove to you how stupid this makes you sound but I am above such petty squabbing. I see you still love to flamebait.

I've done a lot of work with Homeland Security, and rendition is the most weasly, useless method of "solving" a problem imaginable. I don't get why we insist on sending these folks off to be tortured by someone else. We're not gonna get useful information out of them anyway if they're tortured, especially if their innocent, but even if they're terrorists.
Well, why anybody thinks that torture would get anything useful out of anyone is beyond me. I mean, if you've got someone who's sleep deprived and horribly injured repeatedly, they'll say anything if they think it's going to make it stop. You could probably torture a guy into saying that he's Santa Claus and the easter bunny.

Hey, lighten up, you do what you can do. In the words of Carlos Mencia, that's America, B****! Everyone hates us, and yet, since 9-11 there have been no bombings here. We must be doing SOMETHING right.


You are really trying to bait for conspiracy theorists, aren't you?

Everyone hates us, and yet, since 9-11 there have been no bombings here. We must be doing SOMETHING right.

More time passed between the first world trade center bombings and September 10, 2001 than has between September 11, 2001 and now. By that logic, on September 10, 2001, we were also doing something right.

Well, why anybody thinks that torture would get anything useful out of anyone is beyond me. I mean, if you've got someone who's sleep deprived and horribly injured repeatedly, they'll say anything if they think it's going to make it stop. You could probably torture a guy into saying that he's Santa Claus and the easter bunny.

John McCain, no matter how wrong he is on certain issues, is the classic example of this. When the North Vietnamese attempted to torture the names of his squadmates out of him, he provided them with the names of the starting line of the Green Bay Packers.

Um no. I just do not use it for research purposes.

So that's why you asked for one news link and ignored the dozen or more referenced in that wiki article?

Or was that just laziness?

Would you care to back up where I denied this occured? I could also dig into this post and prove to you how stupid this makes you sound but I am above such petty squabbing. I see you still love to flamebait.

There is a certain delectable irony in this...

Haha. Well, I'm going to Hawaii to observe at the JCMT, I think I'm getting put up in a place that isn't too expensive and probably some advice on dealing with drastic altitude changes. Not exactly manicures but much more awesome. :)

putting up with a bit of shit at the airport is a small price to pay for going to hawaii when its cold where you live. what is jcmt and when are you going?

Um no. I just do not use it for research purposes.

This is just an ordinary bulletin board. Not some scientific research group.

So, for this environment, wiki is more than sufficient.

Hey, if I want to know more about any subject then wiki isn't enough for me as well. But it's a nice start, it can give you an idea about a topic.

Sure, wiki is not 100% accurate but for popular topics it is doing pretty well, comparable to a Britannica.

Unless we are discussing topics that are only knew by a few hundred people on the planet, it’s pretty good.

A few weeks ago, a local serious newspaper compared wiki with other sources and they actually wrote what I already stated: Wiki isn’t bad and it’s getting better.

More time passed between the first world trade center bombings and September 10, 2001 than has between September 11, 2001 and now. By that logic, on September 10, 2001, we were also doing something right.

yeah the first wtc attack happened when clinton was new to the job, the second when bush was new to the job. the next big attack might well be in the first year of the new presidency.

"the terrorists" arent trying to bring us to our knees. they cant do that. they just want to do something big that will get the whole world's attention. they are still getting plenty of attention for 9/11. no need to go to the effort of a new attack just yet.

Um no. I just do not use it for research purposes.
Who said anything about research? This isn't research. You wanted a link, you got a link. You got a link that has carefully documented references. Your first comment was to basically dismiss it as being wiki, thus somehow making it unreliable (even though that's been shown to be erroneous). Ergo, it shows that once again you are not interested in reading anything that conflicts with your beliefs.

Would you care to back up where I denied this occured? I could also dig into this post and prove to you how stupid this makes you sound but I am above such petty squabbing. I see you still love to flamebait.
And I see you still love to ignore reality:
Oh for the love :headbang:
Or are you now going to:
A. weasel out of it by saying your post wasn't directed at dismissing that rendition and torture occurs (in which case, what was it about, considering the post you replied to did nothing else but state that rendition and torture has occurred);
or
B. Suddenly announce that - once again - you have a very pressing matter to deal with in real life?

Sounds like when I went through German customs, only without the gun-toting krauts.

Seriously, we can bitch and moan about airport security everywhere for the simple reason that everywhere airport security sucks. It's a major hassle, it's a pain. You, and several other posters here, are acting like it's something that's only endemic in the United States. It isn't, your precious magical paradise of Europe has airport security douchebaggery as well.

My "precious magical paradise"? When did I ever say any such thing? Don't make yourself look foolish by making such assumptions.

I'm well aware that such things can happen in various countries. Heck, for a while whenever there was a "random security check" at any airport, they'd pick me. Perhaps because of the moustache, I don't know. In New Zealand they stopped and questioned me while letting everyone else through ("Where do you live? Why have you come here?, etc...) but without dragging me off into an isolated room.

Well I figured that hence the request for a link. It was provided and I will be looking at it.

You aren't setting yourself up for crap again, are you? Theres only some many times an anus can be reconstructed....

Who said anything about research? This isn't research. You wanted a link, you got a link. You got a link that has carefully documented references. Your first comment was to basically dismiss it as being wiki, thus somehow making it unreliable (even though that's been shown to be erroneous). Ergo, it shows that once again you are not interested in reading anything that conflicts with your beliefs.


And I see you still love to ignore reality:

Or are you now going to:
A. weasel out of it by saying your post wasn't directed at dismissing that rendition and torture occurs (in which case, what was it about, considering the post you replied to did nothing else but state that rendition and torture has occurred);
or
B. Suddenly announce that - once again - you have a very pressing matter to deal with in real life?

Never mind, he is always acting like that.

Last time, he was asking for proof (“and show no wiki link!”) for things that are part of the common knowledge or are retrieved by Google in less than 30 seconds.

A few years ago, another guy on another board asked me if I could provide evidence that airplanes actually could fly... *sight*

He is reminding me more or less to that guy.

My "precious magical paradise"? When did I ever say any such thing? Don't make yourself look foolish by making such assumptions.

Your post operated on making the accusation that shitty airport security was somehow unique in its degree and scope in the US. It isn't, it's just as bad everywhere, and everyone, everywhere likes to bitch about it.

I'm well aware that such things can happen in various countries. Heck, for a while whenever there was a "random security check" at any airport, they'd pick me. Perhaps because of the moustache, I don't know. In New Zealand they stopped and questioned me while letting everyone else through ("Where do you live? Why have you come here?, etc...) but without dragging me off into an isolated room.

No, it's because you're French and bearing a moustache :D

Who said anything about research? This isn't research.

You are right that this is not research but when Wikipedia articles get involved as links to conduct said research in regards to a question about a link to a particular story, I ignore it in favor of an actual story.

You wanted a link, you got a link. You got a link that has carefully documented references.

So do most articles dealing with history. Guess what? Its still an F on a paper.

Your first comment was to basically dismiss it as being wiki, thus somehow making it unreliable (even though that's been shown to be erroneous). Ergo, it shows that once again you are not interested in reading anything that conflicts with your beliefs.

Which is a strawman.

And I see you still love to ignore reality:

Or are you now going to:
A. weasel out of it by saying your post wasn't directed at dismissing that rendition and torture occurs (in which case, what was it about, considering the post you replied to did nothing else but state that rendition and torture has occurred);

Considering that it was the CIA that sent him off and not Airport security...All they did was detain him. That was all. It was the CIA that did the rest. The post made it sound like it was all Airport Security's fault.

Just a question for the law guys here: Aren't ministers having diplomatic immunity, anyway?

They should, yes. Including their own special airport check point.

So do most articles dealing with history. Guess what? Its still an F on a paper.


So you're a History teacher now...?

So you're a History teacher now...?

I doubt, 'cause he didn't know that MiG-25s were flying above Israel for 10 years.

So you're a History teacher now...?

Um no. I'm not a history teacher. I'm just a History graduate who is applying to graduate school to get a masters and maybe a doctorate one day.

Now upon looking at the timeline so thoughtfully given, Arar was detained by the INS and not Airport Security back in 2002. I am still looking at the timeline.

I doubt, 'cause he didn't know that MiG-25s were flying above Israel for 10 years.

Talk about nonsequiter.

It doesn't matter, this is the country where an old lady was searched for a bomb (I think it was at the LAX). I can't even watch American images from New York terminals where security teams are carrying military styled weapons in public. Only few Americans profit from this "scare-tactic" scenarios.

Upon looking a little deeper into the current discussion, looks like canada was just as much at fault (at least their intelligence) as the US was if the timeline is anything to go by.

Um no. I'm not a history teacher. I'm just a History graduate who is applying to graduate school to get a masters and maybe a doctorate one day.


I see a job for you in a number of think-tanks. Your ability to deny facts will greatly aid The American Enterprise Institute and the Heritage Foundation in their battle against realitys liberal bias.

>>Originally Posted by Edwinasia
[size="7"]If they can’t notice the difference between a minister and a suspected terrorist

>I'm wondering if you could tell he was a british minister just by looking at him?

Of course you can! For one thing, they look, well, Ministerial. And British. So look for a guy with a funny accent, bad teeth, and a peculiar walk. And excellent tailoring. Bad teeth, bespoke suit, there's your British minister, right there. That's called "profiling"- the art of telling at first glance exactly what someone is. Funny thing is, the same people who insist that we should spot a British minister instantly, and provide all customary protocols of state to anyone who matches the profile, are the ones who would get bent out of shape if we did the same to a terrorist. (who is entitled to somewhat different "protocols")

Hey, lighten up, you do what you can do. In the words of Carlos Mencia, that's America, B****! Everyone hates us, and yet, since 9-11 there have been no bombings here. We must be doing SOMETHING right.

Although I suspect one of the reasons we're hated so much is that there are no bombings here. People hate you if you are obnoxious, arrogant and pig headed; they hate you more if you are obnoxious, arrogant, pig headed, and RIGHT.

Let's face it, we are arrogant and abusive and we are also right. We are the smartass nobody likes to talk to. We would have more friends if we just went a little easier, backed down more often, and had an occassional bomb in a bus, or something cathartic like that.

Of course, it would suck to be in that bus, but hey, all in the interest of world peace, I suppose.

No, the American system as it stands is arrogant, abusive, and downright wrong. Did you know, for instance, that the terror watch list contains 755,000 people? And that people are being added at a rate of 200,000 a year?

If there were one tenth that many terrorists in the US, you would all be dead.

Face it. It's not that security is doing anything, it's that no-one is actually trying to launch a major terrorist attack. I can think of half a dozen ways off the top of my head, each of which could be implemented with a few people and a million dollars or so of funding --- many need less.

The only reason there have been no recent terrorist attacks in the US is because nobody wants to. As far as they're concerned, they don't need to bother. The US is currently happily making itself internationally hated, removing it's own freedoms, and so on.

I see a job for you in a number of think-tanks. Your ability to deny facts will greatly aid The American Enterprise Institute and the Heritage Foundation in their battle against realitys liberal bias.

Care to show where I denied he was detained by the INS and deported? I just disputed that Airport Security had something to do with it. How is that denying facts when I used facts to disprove that Airport Security detained Arar.

I can't even watch American images from New York terminals where security teams are carrying military styled weapons in public. Only few Americans profit from this "scare-tactic" scenarios.

The European police forces have been carrying military arms in airports since the seventies, because of the increased threat that they have had to deal with far longer than we Americans have.

Further, no one profits from these increased levels of security, no one. Not even the politicians behind their implementation, because these sorts of things just piss people off.

http://images.newstatesman.com/resource/22169
Well come on, look at him! It's obvious that he was trying to sweet talk his way through security with his prestigous British upper class accent all the while smuggeling deadly explosives in his beard which clearly needs a trim and good cleaning through security and into the United States of Freedom. Thankfully, glorious American patriots sniffed out his devious plot to bring his injustice ways upon us and got a hold of him before he could Muslimify our lands O' freedom, that punk bitch.

http://images.newstatesman.com/resource/22169
Well come on, look at him! It's obvious that he was trying to sweet talk his way through security with his prestigous British upper class accent all the while smuggeling deadly explosives in his beard which clearly needs a trim and good cleaning through security and into the United States of Freedom. Thankfully, glorious American patriots sniffed out his devious plot to bring his injustice ways upon us and got a hold of him before he could Muslimify our lands O' freedom, that punk bitch.

NIce sarcasm.

Further, no one profits from these increased levels of security, no one. Not even the politicians behind their implementation, because these sorts of things just piss people off.

Actually, no. It works like this:
1.Have all your media scream about "danger! peril! we want security! the enemy is coming! what is the police doing? the enemy is at the doors! they're here to eat your babies, rape your daughters and steal your car!" (of course, this is an ascending climax: we all know that most men like their cars more than their families;) )
2.Watch as the media polls report that the citizens feel threatened by the "enemy" (be it terrorists, criminals, immigrants, feminists, black people, jews, gypsies, communists, anti-communists, kulaki, gays...) and demand action.
3.Implement nasty "security" measures, advertise them a lot, and, while you're there restrict civil rights and freedom claiming that such measures are necessary to fight the "enemy".
4.Watch as the media polls report that most people support tighter measures, and will vote for you at the next polls.


add: as a fact, I can give you something. The italian Ministry of Internal Affairs (includes police) has recently published the yearly survey on crime. In the last 15 years, homicides have decreased from about 1500/year to about 300/year. House thefts have decreased in 7 years from 380/year every 100000 citizens to 260/year every 100000 citizens. Yet people feel less secure than 15 years ago.

NIce sarcasm.
....or was it....

http://images.newstatesman.com/resource/22169
Well come on, look at him! It's obvious that he was trying to sweet talk his way through security with his prestigous British upper class accent all the while smuggeling deadly explosives in his beard which clearly needs a trim and good cleaning through security and into the United States of Freedom. Thankfully, glorious American patriots sniffed out his devious plot to bring his injustice ways upon us and got a hold of him before he could Muslimify our lands O' freedom, that punk bitch.

The pink tie is a dead give away. He might as well have the explosives on the outside of the jacket....

Care to show where I denied he was detained by the INS and deported? I just disputed that Airport Security had something to do with it. How is that denying facts when I used facts to disprove that Airport Security detained Arar.

I was referring to your attitude generally. Your historical record, as it twere...

Actually, no. It works like this:
1.Have all your media scream about "danger! peril! we want security! the enemy is coming! what is the police doing? the enemy is at the doors! they're here to eat your babies, rape your daughters and steal your car!" (of course, this is an ascending climax: we all know that most men like their cars more than their families;) )
2.Watch as the media polls report that the citizens feel threatened by the "enemy" (be it terrorists, criminals, immigrants, feminists, black people, jews, gypsies, communists, anti-communists, kulaki, gays...) and demand action.
3.Implement nasty "security" measures, advertise them a lot, and, while you're there restrict civil rights and freedom claiming that such measures are necessary to fight the "enemy".
4.Watch as the media polls report that most people support tighter measures, and will vote for you at the next polls.


Except, in the US there has been substantial blowback to the increased airport security, and concessions have been made to both travelers groups and to the airlines to make the process of traveling by air less painful. For example, the preferred traveler program allows for frequent travelers to register so they can skip the long lines, it comes at a cost, but it's a concession. The list of banned items has also experienced major retractions in size. Scissors, for example, are no longer universally forbidden.

Hell, what am I thinking, I (Mr. Whitebread with Mayonnaise) flew through Dulles with a Pakistani this spring, now that I think about it, and I was the one who got searched. How about that one?

I am brown, and it the past have been unable to shave before flying. Granted I've only flown international a handful of times, mostly to India, but I've never been taken aside for additional screening.

Maybe they thought you were a convert? :confused:

The pink tie is a dead give away. He might as well have the explosives on the outside of the jacket....
Agreed! But wait, there's more! Notice the way his eyes are shifting, evily off to make sure he plan all goes according to, eh, well....plan.

Agreed! But wait, there's more! Notice the way his eyes are shifting, evily off to make sure he plan all goes according to, eh, well....plan.

Oh please stop trying to act as if you actually think it was a bad thing he was searched. Given the opinions you've expressed in the past you're probably disappointed he wasn't shot on sight.

Agreed! But wait, there's more! Notice the way his eyes are shifting, evily off to make sure he plan all goes according to, eh, well....plan.

More like shifting evilly off to the side to lock onto the pile of delicious, scrumptious donuts off to the side, those very donuts which he was promised if he'd show up to this ridiculous photo shoot.

This affront to Her Majesty's Government can not go unpunished. I say we send a couple of gunboats to blockade their ports. That will soon bring their economy to its knees.

http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/9695/owltrouble1rq.jpg

Umm... ok. It contains essentially the same information. Except that the wiki article links to a variety of news sources while the cbc links only to cbc articles. I don't get why wikipedia is considered to be so unreliable, they have done studies and it's just as reliable as any other encyclopedia.

It's because I can go in there and edit it to say what I want. I can put in there that he eats poop, did acid in college, and has 3 wives. Granted, assuming it's all untrue, it may not last long in there, but the opportunity to make it say what I want is there. The encyclopedia doesn't have that ability, nor does any article from a news source.

leet mie geez. is iet pozibel tat jou heive a gunz in tha houze?

Er, what? English, please?

Er, what? English, please?

leet mie geez. is iet pozibel tat jou heive a gunz in tha houze?

translates into Let me see. Is it possible that you have a gun in the house?

It's because I can go in there and edit it to say what I want. I can put in there that he eats poop, did acid in college, and has 3 wives. Granted, assuming it's all untrue, it may not last long in there, but the opportunity to make it say what I want is there. The encyclopedia doesn't have that ability, nor does any article from a news source.

Semantics. If enough people fuck with an article, the mods will lock it. I would literally trust Wikipedia with my life.

And let me just say, in response to the general topic of the thread, sometimes I really honestly am ashamed to be an American. I would say that I'm still proud of my nationality and what it stands for, but so many people have grossly twisted that pride that I don't even care any more. It's getting to the point now where I am seriously considering just leaving.

<climbs under table, gets into fetal position, waits to be labeled a terrorist>

Hell, what am I thinking, I (Mr. Whitebread with Mayonnaise) flew through Dulles with a Pakistani this spring, now that I think about it, and I was the one who got searched. How about that one?

I was searched 3 times (at each connection, in Baltimore, Chicago and Detroit) when I was flying home on mid-tour leave from Iraq. Not only did I have a military ID, but I was in my DCU's (Desert Combat Uniform) and carrying my helmet and body armor.

Unless security opened up a diplomatic bag then I don't see the problem. Why should you assume a person does not engage in illegal activities simply from the virtue of the position they hold.

This is really not a big deal. Airport security randomly checks bags for explosive residues. They did it to me one time.

This is really not a big deal. Airport security randomly checks bags for explosive residues. They did it to me one time.

Some people around these parts seem to think that this is some evidence of...I dunno, America being an awful place or something. People promptly showed up and started sharing their airport horror stories about traveling in the US, seemingly to make it seem like this is endemic to the US, and not to other countries.

:rolleyes:

Airport security is full of assholes, but they are equal oppurtunity assholes. White guys get searched just as often as Arabs. And don't pretend that this is just America-oh wait, I forgot, America is teh devil lulz :rolleyes:

So you bitch when our airport security system is egalitarian, or is this thread just another NSG "Hate on America" thread? What the fuck do you want us to do?

You want airport horror stories? Frankfurt International is the one that won real big with me. The Grenzschutzdienst opened my bags to inspect them, and didn't close the left latch. As a result, the firmly packed porcelain Stein I had spent 50 Euros on broke into a thousand pieces, and the BRD refused to compensate me for their Employees inability to succeed at life. While in the airport, I got felt up by a creepy middle aged German man in a uniform, whilst his three buddies pointed MP5's at me, It was a truly awful experience.
Agreed. Most Western European airports are just as bad as American airports where it comes to security. Actually -- oddly enough -- the only place I've really felt that security was both efficient and useful was at Israel's Ben-Gurion Airport, for the obvious reason that bomb-toting terrorists are a much more common sight there than at Yoknapatawpha County International Airport and their practices have been modified accordingly.

In fact, airlines in general suck. I don't know why they make us pay more money in return for reduced services, ancient aircrafts, and the obligatory airport body search. It's almost enough to make you get a job as a security guard.

This affront to Her Majesty's Government can not go unpunished. I say we send a couple of gunboats to blockade their ports. That will soon bring their economy to its knees.
Absolutely spiffing idea, old thing. A taste of the good old Emparh should show the bloody colonials, what.

Absolutely spiffing idea, old thing. A taste of the good old Emparh should show the bloody colonials, what.

Nothing as it would be all but impossible to blockade the US in this day in age.

mmm I love America!

http://www.agathaandlouise.com/catalog/Dog-bless-america-big.jpg

Nothing as it would be all but impossible to blockade the US in this day in age.

Oh come now, my good sir.... a gunboat on the Atlantic side, a gunboat on the Pacific, and the colonials will soon see their pathetic little economy beaten under by the manufacturing capabilities of Her Majesty's Britannic United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. They'll jolly well see what a dreadful mistake they made in parting ways with the Empire upon which the sun never sets, what!

Oh come now, my good sir.... a gunboat on the Atlantic side, a gunboat on the Pacific, and the colonials will soon see their pathetic little economy beaten under by the manufacturing capabilities of Her Majesty's Britannic United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. They'll jolly well see what a dreadful mistake they made in parting ways with the Empire upon which the sun never sets, what!

And a couple of fighters destroys gunboat and walla. Blockade over with :D

You know, if we really wanted to treat the UKian minister like a terrorist, you would never know it.

I was searched 3 times (at each connection, in Baltimore, Chicago and Detroit) when I was flying home on mid-tour leave from Iraq. Not only did I have a military ID, but I was in my DCU's (Desert Combat Uniform) and carrying my helmet and body armor.

Yes, but the 5 Iraqi heads hanging from your belt, were making you suspicious.

And a couple of fighters destroys gunboat and walla. Blockade over with :D

You Sir are not a gentleman, fighting with flying machines is no way to wage war.

You know, if we really wanted to treat the UKian minister like a terrorist, you would never know it.

Is it?

We know pretty much, how USA are treating terrorists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Camp_x-ray_detainees.jpg) in Guantánamo Bay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp) and Iraqi soldiers (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AbuGhraibAbuse-standing-on-box.jpg) in the Abu Ghraib (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prison) prison.

Some people around these parts seem to think that this is some evidence of...I dunno, America being an awful place or something. People promptly showed up and started sharing their airport horror stories about traveling in the US, seemingly to make it seem like this is endemic to the US, and not to other countries.

Actually, it was a guy who made the point about the attitude of 'those with thoritay' in the US in general, on which I chimed in. Generally, customs and excise, immigration are not the nicest lot to deal with, regardless of nation.

You know, if we really wanted to treat the UKian minister like a terrorist, you would never know it.
Which might cause something of a conflict. It is kind of difficult to loose a Minister.

Unless security opened up a diplomatic bag then I don't see the problem.

The whole person has diplomatic immunity. Including the stuff he hides in his anus.

Why should you assume a person does not engage in illegal activities simply from the virtue of the position they hold.

True that. If doctors can be plotting to murder for the glory of their God, so can ministers.

Oh please stop trying to act as if you actually think it was a bad thing he was searched. Given the opinions you've expressed in the past you're probably disappointed he wasn't shot on sight.
....

Well it's quite obvious really that the airport security would have been well within their rights to shoot him, given that he was breaking airport rule numero uno, FWA: Flying While Arab.

.....

:rolleyes:

Maybe over time you'll be able to convince that stupid masses of people that being critical of immigration (even more so with non-compatible cultures) equates to shooting people on sight for international travel, but for now it doesn't. Okay cup-cake?
More like shifting evilly off to the side to lock onto the pile of delicious, scrumptious donuts off to the side, those very donuts which he was promised if he'd show up to this ridiculous photo shoot.
Nah I think it must be that it was such an awkward conversation at hand, he just hand to glance off to avoid locking eyes with the security that was questioning him:

Security: "Sir we're gonna need to have to pat you down."
Him: "Oh, jolly good then, carry on with it."
Security: "Sir, as my fingers were slowly travelling along your upper thigh, I couldn't help wondering; is that a suicide-nuke in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"
Him: *Shifts eyes and glances around room in an attempt to buy time*

Ha! See! I told you that's what happend!:p

You Sir are not a gentleman, fighting with flying machines is no way to wage war.

Oh ok! Um....what about a couple of Ticondegra (Yea I know its misspelled) class crusiers then?

Yes, but the 5 Iraqi heads hanging from your belt, were making you suspicious.

:rolleyes:

Why haven't you been banned yet?

:rolleyes:

Why haven't you been banned yet?

Because he's been within the rules for the most part.

The whole person has diplomatic immunity. Including the stuff he hides in his anus.My impression of diplomatic immunity was that the diplomat is immune from prosecution and lawsuits. If the diplomat breaks some law then the diplomat is declared persona non grata and is forced to the leave the country. That's all.

So this doesn't stop the diplomat and their staff from being immune to other effects of the law. If an officer of the law found a diplomat inebriated and being disorderly in a bar then they could force him to leave the bar. This is where diplomatic bags come in. They're just not allowed to be searched or held by anyone other than diplomatic staff. Period.

Yes, but the 5 Iraqi heads hanging from your belt, were making you suspicious.

Actually, they made me put them in my checked luggage along with my necklace of ears.

Seriously though, when I was getting read to leave Iraq for good the Military Police briefed us on what exactly we could or could not take home with us. They actually had "human body parts" on their list, which means that someone actually tried such a thing. Disturbing.