NationStates Jolt Archive

And let me tell you, he was amazing. The whole speech was brilliant and brilliantly executed. I don't understand why people (non-Muslims, that is) hate him so much.

His basic message was:

1. Islam is outpopulating, outmaneuvering, and outpoliticizing Europe.
2. Islam is a dangerous religion that seeks to impose its "values" on other cultures.
3. Islam is in direct opposition to Western culture and its law system is in direct opposition to Western Common Law.
4. Therefore, Islam is an immediate threat to Western civilization.
5. Muslim population in Europe is set to double in the next thirty years.
6. Therefore, Islam is a long-term threat to Western civilization.
7. Therefore, if we are to retain our culture, something must be done.
8. Therefore, exeunt Marxism and leftist-Liberalism, enter the BNP.

I especially enjoyed his points on how the Saudis are forcing Wahhabism down everyone's throats with their gobs and gobs of petrodollars. I found it interesting, too, that the Saudis were spending so much money trying to force a war with Iran because that would a) prevent them from getting their nuclear weapon which would b) prevent them from being a threat to the Saudis. The Saudis, being Sunnis, stand to lose a lot were they to be muscled out of Mecca by the Shi'a Iranians. Interesting, interesting.

Well, I've got to say that were I ever to become eligible to vote in Britain, only one political party would have my vote: BNP, and its leader, Nick Griffin!

I think your enumeration of his points pretty well answers your question about why people don't like him.

The BNP is a racist far-right organisation that is using any message that works now to get support. It was jews and blacks and now muslims have become the acceptable target. They're a bunch of brainless thugs and how anyone could think otherwise is mind-boggling.

Edit to add: And if anyone honestly believe what the say is half as bad as what they mean (and what they say should be plenty bad enough) then naivety is not the word. Google to see what they say when they think the outside world isn't watching.

I like how it takes Britain's far-right nazi party to say what America's "Mainstream" Republicans say all the time.

Of course, he's dead wrong, and he's a Nazi thug, but that goes without saying. After all, he's BNP.

What a jest of a reply from Sirmomo. The BNP has been actively involved with Sikh and Hindu organizations, has Jewish members and a Jewish councilor, and many of its members are Poles whose grandparents emigrated during the Second World War. As to racist? Opposition to a religion isn't racist. Furthermore, you show that you're just a classless buffoon because you have to resort to ad-hominem (and an emotion-laden one at that) to try to get your point across.

If anyone is brainless, it is you.

Oh, and cue the "Nazi" card. You sods can't do shit without calling someone a name--no matter how wrongly given it is.

The funny thing is that all you've done is call him and the BNP names and not given a second thought to attacking the ideas that he is promoting.

What a jest of a reply from Sirmomo. The BNP has been actively involved with Sikh and Hindu organizations, has Jewish members and a Jewish councilor, and many of its members are Poles whose grandparents emigrated during the Second World War. As to racist? Opposition to a religion isn't racist. Furthermore, you show that you're just a classless buffoon because you have to resort to ad-hominem (and an emotion-laden one at that) to try to get your point across.

If anyone is brainless, it is you.

Oh, and cue the "Nazi" card. You sods can't do shit without calling someone a name--no matter how wrongly given it is.

A) Because there is nothing racist at all about having a party constitution which declares it is "committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by legal changes, negotiation and consent the overwhelmingly white makeup of the British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948."

B) Which is more classless, calling Nazis Nazis or sending razorblades to Jews?

C) One should call white-supremacist, Nationalist, Totalitarians with racists ties what they are: Nazis.

If you're so proud of the BNP, why use a puppet to shower them with praises?

I like how it takes Britain's far-right nazi party to say what America's "Mainstream" Republicans say all the time.

Of course, he's dead wrong, and he's a Nazi thug, but that goes without saying. After all, he's BNP.

Yeah, fuck those republicans and their workers co-operatives. And organic farming too.

What a jest of a reply from Sirmomo. The BNP has been actively involved with Sikh and Hindu organizations, has Jewish members and a Jewish councilor, and many of its members are Poles whose grandparents emigrated during the Second World War. As to racist? Opposition to a religion isn't racist. Furthermore, you show that you're just a classless buffoon because you have to resort to ad-hominem (and an emotion-laden one at that) to try to get your point across.

If anyone is brainless, it is you.

Oh, and cue the "Nazi" card. You sods can't do shit without calling someone a name--no matter how wrongly given it is.

Here's the thing: They were anti-jew. Massively, massively anti-semitic. I'm assuming that as you're at University you're not old enough to remember but the rest of us do. They are racist and key members have been caught on camera being overtly racist.

Not to mention that key members are holocaust deniers.

Muslims are just the acceptable target of hate.

And because you're not going to take my word for it, here's wikipedia saying pretty much the same thing:
"Historically, under John Tyndall's leadership, the BNP had strong anti-Semitic tendencies, but in recent times, the BNP has tended to focus on Muslims as its main adversary "

Yeah, fuck those republicans and their workers co-operatives. And organic farming too.

Because this post was about organic farming and workers co-ops?

Maybe you didn't notice, but the College Republicans are running an event this week called, "Islamofacism Awareness Week" on college campuses. The hateful message of Nick Griffin and the hateful message of David Horowitz are not so dissimilar.

Now why the strawman?

The funny thing is that all you've done is call him and the BNP names and not given a second thought to attacking the ideas that he is promoting.

That's because we can't think of a good reason not to deport all them darkies!!

The funny thing is that all you've done is call him and the BNP names and not given a second thought to attacking the ideas that he is promoting.

OK...

1. Islam is outpopulating, outmaneuvering, and outpoliticizing Europe.
Proof?

2. Islam is a dangerous religion that seeks to impose its "values" on other cultures.
Which makes it different from Christianity in what way?

3. Islam is in direct opposition to Western culture and its law system is in direct opposition to Western Common Law.
Again, proof?

4. Therefore, Islam is an immediate threat to Western civilization.

But not nearly as big a threat as the racists who say things like this.

5. Muslim population in Europe is set to double in the next thirty years.

And in that same time frame, what is projected for the non-Muslim population?

6. Therefore, Islam is a long-term threat to Western civilization.
Again, not nearly as big a threat as the racist rantings of this Nick Griffin character.

7. Therefore, if we are to retain our culture, something must be done.
8. Therefore, exeunt Marxism and leftist-Liberalism, enter the BNP.


Frankly, if the choice is Islam or Nazi, I will take Islam, thanks. Fortunately, these are not the only choices, so I am not worried about either being forced on the world. I am worried that attitudes like this are being made to sound to some (the OP for instance) as reasonable and right. So much so that the threat of another holocaust seems more and more possible daily. I can only hope for continued reason and sense from a greater part of the population.

The funny thing is that all you've done is call him and the BNP names and not given a second thought to attacking the ideas that he is promoting.

Here's the ideas he's promoting...

“The electors of Millwall did not back a Post-Modernist Rightist Party, but what they perceived to be a strong, disciplined organisation with the ability to back up its slogan 'Defend Rights for Whites' with well-directed boots and fists. When the crunch comes, power is the product of force and will, not of rational debate.” Nick Griffin, BNP leader.

Yup, boots and fists are the best means to get people to think the way you do but wait, there's more...

“I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated or turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the earth is flat…I have reached the conclusion that the ‘extermination’ tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter day witch-hysteria.” Nick Griffin, BNP leader.

Can these people not have an original opinion, why do these things always go hand in hand?

I'm not in politics for cheap cheers; if I was I could probably have had a safe Tory seat years ago. I'm in it, among other things, because I want to help stop the immigration which is destroying this and every other white nation in the world. Then I want to see that deadly tide turned. I want to see Britain become the 99 per cent genetically white country she was just eleven years before I was born, and I want to die knowing that I have helped to set her on a course whereby her future genetic makeup will one day not even resemble that of January 1948, but that of July 1914. Nothing will ever turn me from working towards that final vision - Nick Griffin, No More Time for Peter Pan

Fantastic stuff Nick.

If you're so proud of the BNP, why use a puppet to shower them with praises?

Check my IP. I had a nationstates account over two years ago but I've only recently returned. I'm no sock puppet as you so blithely assume.

Nick Griffin and the BNP are made of phail.

Check my IP. I had a nationstates account over two years ago but I've only recently returned. I'm no sock puppet as you so blithely assume.

What was your old nation named?

Check my IP. I had a nationstates account over two years ago but I've only recently returned. I'm no sock puppet as you so blithely assume.

Which university are we talking about.

Frankly, if the choice is Islam or Nazi, I will take Islam, thanks. Fortunately, these are not the only choices, so I am not worried about either being forced on the world. I am worried that attitudes like this are being made to sound to some (the OP for instance) as reasonable and right. So much so that the threat of another holocaust seems more and more possible daily. I can only hope for continued reason and sense from a greater part of the population.

I'd prefer to take neither... in fact... a quick death is more palatable.

But yes, this Griffin character is just a Nazi thug.

Nick Griffin and the BNP are made of phail.

And AIDS. And they also suck at this game. Additionally, they could be said to be "doing it wrong."

Because this post was about organic farming and workers co-ops?

Maybe you didn't notice, but the College Republicans are running an event this week called, "Islamofacism Awareness Week" on college campuses. The hateful message of Nick Griffin and the hateful message of David Horowitz are not so dissimilar.

Now why the strawman?

Actually I'm disagreeing with the characterization of the BNP as 'far right'. It's primarily aimed at the working class and disenfranchised labour voters.

The xenophobes from the right vote UKIP.

And let me tell you, he was amazing. The whole speech was brilliant and brilliantly executed. I don't understand why people (non-Muslims, that is) hate him so much.

His basic message was:

1. Islam is outpopulating, outmaneuvering, and outpoliticizing Europe. erm even if it why is that a problem ... muslim majority countries have to put up with christians going over there (not a clue what the out manouvering bit means :confused: surely that means its europe problem for having less babies ... not a clue how islam as a religion could even come close to having all the ploicies of europe
2. Islam is a dangerous religion that seeks to impose its "values" on other cultures. Since when?? its a religion based on peace like i thought ... if its not then doesnt that means the extremists are right when they refere to the west doing stuff in there countries as crusades etc?)
3. Islam is in direct opposition to Western culture and its law system is in direct opposition to Western Common Law. erm you reckon ... id just say they havent caught up .. lets look at it .. women have really only just got rights in europe/the west really and are the equal all the time?? nope
as for the punishments prison and hands chopped off ... well we got prisions we have the death penalty and we used to have hands chopped off and floggings etc etc blah blah
4. Therefore, Islam is an immediate threat to Western civilization. So they are going to be forcing you to go and pray at a mosque soon??
5. Muslim population in Europe is set to double in the next thirty years. and?? if there were more roman catholics etc then there population would double etc
6. Therefore, Islam is a long-term threat to Western civilization. Why because theyve had more babies?? oh noes run away babies are making us go to the mosques to pray. Its a democray in most of Europe .. you think that people wont vote against a extremist view with a majority (some idiots always fall for the extremist crap ;)
7. Therefore, if we are to retain our culture, something must be done. Agree's bring back the law where you can shoot a welsh man with a longbow on a sunday :D (nah i agree we need to retain our history and culture but the future is more important to me.. pretty sure we do that already though... what culture and history do you think we arent retaining?)
8. Therefore, exeunt Marxism and leftist-Liberalism, enter the BNP.
You mean move to wales with nick and annoy the welsh??

I especially enjoyed his points on how the Saudis are forcing Wahhabism down everyone's throats with their gobs and gobs of petrodollars. I found it interesting, too, that the Saudis were spending so much money trying to force a war with Iran because that would a) prevent them from getting their nuclear weapon which would b) prevent them from being a threat to the Saudis. The Saudis, being Sunnis, stand to lose a lot were they to be muscled out of Mecca by the Shi'a Iranians. Interesting, interesting.
whats Wahhabism?? as to the other stuff not heard anything about that either (but its probably only the extremists trying to push the other lot out

Well, I've got to say that were I ever to become eligible to vote in Britain, only one political party would have my vote: BNP, and its leader, Nick Griffin!

Hopefully by the time you become eligable the BNP will have either disbanded or grown a pair and actually focus its policies on something other than skin colour and religion

And AIDS. And they also suck at this game. Additionally, they could be said to be "doing it wrong."

for the loss

And let me tell you, he was amazing. The whole speech was brilliant and brilliantly executed. I don't understand why people (non-Muslims, that is) hate him so much.

His basic message was:

1. Islam is outpopulating, outmaneuvering, and outpoliticizing Europe.
2. Islam is a dangerous religion that seeks to impose its "values" on other cultures.
3. Islam is in direct opposition to Western culture and its law system is in direct opposition to Western Common Law.
4. Therefore, Islam is an immediate threat to Western civilization.
5. Muslim population in Europe is set to double in the next thirty years.
6. Therefore, Islam is a long-term threat to Western civilization.
7. Therefore, if we are to retain our culture, something must be done.
8. Therefore, exeunt Marxism and leftist-Liberalism, enter the BNP.

I especially enjoyed his points on how the Saudis are forcing Wahhabism down everyone's throats with their gobs and gobs of petrodollars. I found it interesting, too, that the Saudis were spending so much money trying to force a war with Iran because that would a) prevent them from getting their nuclear weapon which would b) prevent them from being a threat to the Saudis. The Saudis, being Sunnis, stand to lose a lot were they to be muscled out of Mecca by the Shi'a Iranians. Interesting, interesting.

Well, I've got to say that were I ever to become eligible to vote in Britain, only one political party would have my vote: BNP, and its leader, Nick Griffin!

Unfortunately, his type are needed to balance out the extremism that is rising in Britain among Muslim youth.

Unfortunately, his type are needed to balance out the extremism that is rising in Britain among Muslim youth.

Rather than balancing each other, it'd be nice if they cancelled each other out. :D

Nick Griffin and the BNP are made of phail.

Word.

And I second the preference of Muslims to Nazis. In fact, I would honestly prefer to live under full-blown Sharia law than under a Nazi regime. Why?

Under Sharia, I am a dhimmi - a second-class citizen, with restricted rights.

Under Nazism, I am an Untermenchen - sub-human, fit only for extermination.

Rather than balancing each other, it'd be nice if they cancelled each other out. :D


That would be the preferred result ;)

Unfortunately, his type are needed to balance out the extremism that is rising in Britain among Muslim youth.

agrees with everyone else saying cancelled each other out would be better .... im sure the muslim youths that lean towars the extremist views think they are balancing out Mr Blairs and Bush's (in there eyes) extremism(?) ... who are balancing out Bin Laden etc etc etc

Lol ive just seen the university bit of the thread title .... maybe they should ban universities in the UK altogether as im sure Bin Laden came to a university over here

and lmao ive just realised the OP of this thread isnt from this country as he said this

Well, I've got to say that were I ever to become eligible to vote in Britain, only one political party would have my vote: BNP, and its leader, Nick Griffin!

sorry .... if you got to vote for the BNP party it would mean you would lose your right to vote and would be asked to leave this country if the BNP were in power .... great arguement youve got going on for voting for him lol

What a jest of a reply from Sirmomo. The BNP has been actively involved with Sikh and Hindu organizations, has Jewish members and a Jewish councilor, and many of its members are Poles whose grandparents emigrated during the Second World War.

"The enemy of my enemy..."

The BNP's subtle attempts to use Sikhs, Hindus, and Jews against Muslims does not mean the BNP tolerates these groups; they merely use them for politically expedient reasons.

As to racist? Opposition to a religion isn't racist.

No, opposition to a religion is not racist, but it is bigoted. And the BNP has amply proven on many occasions, through both words and deeds, that it is indeed racist.

Furthermore, you show that you're just a classless buffoon because you have to resort to ad-hominem (and an emotion-laden one at that) to try to get your point across.

Stating facts =/= "ad-hominem"

If anyone is brainless, it is you.

Don't flame.

Oh, and cue the "Nazi" card. You sods can't do shit without calling someone a name--no matter how wrongly given it is.

And calling them "Nazis" is certainly appropriate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party#Relations_with_neo-Nazi.2C_terrorist_and_paramilitary_groups).

I don't understand why people (non-Muslims, that is) hate him so much.


i thought this thread was going to be a joke after reading that.

don't feed the trolls!

When I saw the title I thought 'surely the BNP won't find any support in a university?' so I'm quite surprised. Given the nature of my university, with a high proportion of overseas students (brown and yellow ones, no less!) who get along with the UK students, I think he'd have difficulty drumming up support here. Not to mention that the students union is firmly committed to multi-culturalism.

Maybe Nick Griffin is targeting the failed art student crowd, who blame their lack of talent on foreigners. I hear that some of the far right's most famous leadership come from this sort of background.

I like to show this stuff to me flatmate, it makes him feel special that people are willing to go to such lengths to send him to a country he's never visited.

If you're so proud of the BNP, why use a puppet to shower them with praises?

QFT(Quoted For Tacos)

:)

The BNP proposes "firm but voluntary incentives for immigrants and their descendants to return home."

This line comes from Wikipedia and the BNP website. I'm sorry but India was my grandparents home not mine. I've lived in Britain all my life and consider myself British. If the BNP ever got into power I'd probably be put in some camp.

I'd like to see Nick Griffin come to my university and try and preach that message here. It wouldn't work and I'm sure he'd get some form of injury.

1. Islam is outpopulating, outmaneuvering, and outpoliticizing Europe.
2. Islam is a dangerous religion that seeks to impose its "values" on other cultures.
3. Islam is in direct opposition to Western culture and its law system is in direct opposition to Western Common Law.
Newsflash; Western culture isn't infallible. Granted, Islam is similarly fallible, but its opposition to the west doesn't make it worthy of destruction, nor does it mean we should vote a group of intolerant bigots into power.

I'm an opponent to the way the west works too, because I see its materialism and selfishness as unsustainable and destructive. Does that render me someone that you should call the BNP to take care of?

Yes, radical Islam is something that needs to be addressed, but dissolving into a racist fascism to eliminate Islam altogether it is throwing the baby out with the bathwater; not just for Islam, but for Britain as a whole.

The BNP have no credible policies on anything - they would not even know where to start in terms of the economy, foreign policy. Essentially they are just an outlet for morons to express their bigotry by voting for them.

... the economy...
Well, actually, economics has traditionally been the one thing Fascists have been any good at, due to them having no problems with nationalising large industries by force and dictating their operation to the letter. Undoubtedly, the BNP would screw up foreign relations, social justice, freedom of speech, education etc. etc., and their attitudes towards the British people can be at best be considered woefully negligent (if not actually completely maleficient), but it might be difficult to fault them on economic terms.

I'd stick to the more obvious points in opposing them.

The BNP and its neo-Nazi members are - just like other neo-Nazis - immune to reason. Out in the real world, it is fortunate they're near-impossible to shut up, because it makes them easy to find and fight. You cannot, however, harm or cower an online neo-Nazi, thus there is absolutely no reason to give it the impression that it can be heard.

Don't give it a platform.

3. Islam is in direct opposition to Western culture and its law system is in direct opposition to Western Common Law.
This is the second time this week I've heard someone spout this nonsense. Like the first person, I'm presuming that you (and your good friend Nick Griffin) don't really understand what 'Western Common Law' is.

Especially seeing as a huge portion of the West doesn't even use the Common Law model.

Well, I've got to say that were I ever to become eligible to vote in Britain, only one political party would have my vote: BNP, and its leader, Nick Griffin!
Trolls are only funny if they're not blatantly obvious.

Check my IP. I had a nationstates account over two years ago but I've only recently returned. I'm no sock puppet as you so blithely assume.

Mongoose Spatulas?

Well, I've got to say that were I ever to become eligible to vote in Britain, only one political party would have my vote: BNP, and its leader, Nick Griffin!

If you are not eligible to vote in Britain why are you promoting the BNP?

If you are not eligible to vote in Britain why are you promoting the BNP?

To troll us?

To troll us?

Is that a verb now? :p

Is that a verb now? :p

It was a verb first. Trolls are just people who troll.

It was a verb first. Trolls are just people who troll.

I wonder if trolls trawl for people to troll?

I wonder if trolls trawl for people to troll?

I assume so.

I assume so.

How droll!

I just hope he keeps the fuck away from Sheffield - not that it would make any difference if he came here. We're all Guardian reading hippies..:cool:

And let me tell you, he was amazing. The whole speech was brilliant and brilliantly executed. I don't understand why people (non-Muslims, that is) hate him so much.


Because hes a little englander thug. Hes not even a front for a paramilitary organisation, because that would require more braincells than most of them have. Its bigotry, for bigotrys sake. May he die roarin, as the man says.

And let me tell you, he was amazing. The whole speech was brilliant and brilliantly executed.
Such is often the way with what are essentially cult leaders. See also Le Pen, whose speeches you can't fault, although his message is xenophobic bullshit.
I don't understand why people (non-Muslims, that is) hate him so much.
Because he's a neo-Nazi without the balls to admit it.
His basic message was:

1. Islam is outpopulating, outmaneuvering, and outpoliticizing Europe.
Not on European soil it isn't...
2. Islam is a dangerous religion that seeks to impose its "values" on other cultures.
The BNP is a dangerous group that seeks to impose its "values" on others too. Almost every movement could be described in this fashion.
3. Islam is in direct opposition to Western culture and its law system is in direct opposition to Western Common Law.
Have you every actually spoken to a Muslim, or even an Arab in your life?

They're very much like the rest of us, you know, they just don't drink alcohol (more to the point, they often don't). Their culture is actually pretty similar, being brought up at all times under a bit of casual oppression, as monarchies and also Russia are always like.

They have a pretty similar sense of humour and way of life, to be honest.
4. Therefore, Islam is an immediate threat to Western civilization.
Erm, no it isn't. I don't see how their different laws mean that Western civilization is at any immediate risk at all.
5. Muslim population in Europe is set to double in the next thirty years.
Ach, that means we're going from "very, very few" to "very few". I'm practically pissing myself at the thought...
6. Therefore, Islam is a long-term threat to Western civilization.
I think you'll find that it isn't. The people that are over here are going to integrate to an extent, despite what Griffin might tell you, and are going to be a calming influence on the more radical members of the Muslim community that are coming over, which is a very small amount of them anyway.
7. Therefore, if we are to retain our culture, something must be done.
... Erm, no.
8. Therefore, exeunt Marxism and leftist-Liberalism, enter the BNP.
The BNP - Fighting "Islamofascism" with neo-Fascism! (read : pointless racism)
I especially enjoyed his points on how the Saudis are forcing Wahhabism down everyone's throats with their gobs and gobs of petrodollars.
Money used to keep people angry with anyone but the ruling class shock?
I found it interesting, too, that the Saudis were spending so much money trying to force a war with Iran because that would a) prevent them from getting their nuclear weapon which would b) prevent them from being a threat to the Saudis.
Not at all surprising, we do the same all of the time, with the whole middle east. Everyone does. It's a volatile region with a very valuable resource, so people exploit their way to power.
The Saudis, being Sunnis, stand to lose a lot were they to be muscled out of Mecca by the Shi'a Iranians. Interesting, interesting.
Yeah, that's not going to happen very soon at all, seeing as the Saudis have the backing of the US for some reason.
Well, I've got to say that were I ever to become eligible to vote in Britain, only one political party would have my vote: BNP, and its leader, Nick Griffin!
Aye, well hopefully some other political leaders will come to your uni, and seemingly because you have a head that needs filling, they'll convince you to vote otherwise.

How droll!
I think you mean drôle, to pardon your French :p

Unfortunately, his type are needed to balance out the extremism that is rising in Britain among Muslim youth.
Yeah, because as a Yank you'd know a whole ton about it, right?

Such is often the way...SNIP


Excellent post Yootopia (even if you are Cilla Black).

Excellent post Yootopia (even if you are Cilla Black).
Ta, chuck.

Excellent post Yootopia (even if you are Cilla Black).
It unfortunately has one huge flaw. It is based on the assumption that BNP supporters listen to and understand logic and reason, and don't have knuckles dragging on the ground. But I suppose we can but try...

It unfortunately has one huge flaw. It is based on the assumption that BNP supporters listen to and understand logic and reason, and don't have knuckles dragging on the ground. But I suppose we can but try...
I think that the issue with this particular poster is more that he's got an empty mind that needs filling, and as long as it's a reasonable point, he'll take it up.

The issue with the BNP is that they mix truth with half-truth and lies, which makes them extremely dangerous.

I think you mean drôle, to pardon your French :p

No, actually I meant the bastardised English version (http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/droll?view=uk) of the word ;)

Excellent post Yootopia (even if you are Cilla Black).

Yootopia is Cilla Black? Wow!

No, actually I meant the bastardised English version (http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/droll?view=uk) of the word ;)
:eek:

I can't believe we killed such a nice-looking word :(
Yootopia is Cilla Black? Wow!
Based on a true story.

I think that the issue with this particular poster is more that he's got an empty mind that needs filling, and as long as it's a reasonable point, he'll take it up.
I personally think it's harder to change an idiot's mind - they often stubbornly stick to bulshit because they can't understand anything else. Hopefully, though, if he/she is at university, something can be done about it. If the worst comes to the worst, all he'll do is vote for some idiot party in whatever country he's from, but I guess that isn't much consolation.

The issue with the BNP is that they mix truth with half-truth and lies, which makes them extremely dangerous.
They manage to come up with facts and then arrive at some ridiculous conclusion, dressed up in populist rubbish.

I personally think it's harder to change an idiot's mind - they often stubbornly stick to bulshit because they can't understand anything else.
Erm can be true, or at other times, if you give them a reasoned argument as to why they're wrong, they can change their mind, even if at first they appear pretty stubborn - leaving a lasting impression that the BNP is not the answer to everything is the important bit.
Hopefully, though, if he/she is at university, something can be done about it.
Yeah, as long as they're kept away from the kind of NME-reading morons who fight stupidity with extra stupidity in terms of combatting the BNP, trotting out the same bloody mantra again and again, getting nods and the odd clap from the already-converted, repeating the same message to the extent that you simply stop listening.

Eugh.
If the worst comes to the worst, all he'll do is vote for some idiot party in whatever country he's from, but I guess that isn't much consolation.
It's the best kind of consolation. The fact that whatever they do, it's completely pointless, and the fact that they lack the charisma to convince other people also completely undermines whatever their chosen movement is in favour of - see also most revolutionary Marxists, who essentially chuck out a few buzzwords about the proletariat and the internation revolution et al and are surprised when most people ignore and/or mock them.
They manage to come up with facts and then arrive at some ridiculous conclusion, dressed up in populist rubbish.
Yeah, essentially, although it's a bit more subtle than that, and as was shown by the OP, they'll add some level of pretty true factual politics at the end, so you feel like everything that was previously said was also fact.

That's how they work. Fact-ettes at the start and end, the rest being essentially a criticism of Islam and immigration, and the facts at the start and end, which are, after all, the most important bit of any speech, leave you feeling like you've had your eyes opened to some incredible new truth.

I wonder which university it is ( thats assuming there was one). I remember him being invited to Bath but he was then barred " amid fears the event would bring chaos to the campus"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/farright/story/0,,2077162,00.html

Unless its in America:

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2007/10/msuyaf_to_host.php

Nick Griffin, the chairman of the British National Party (BNP), will deliver a speech at Michigan State University on the issue of how Europe is rapidly becoming Eurabia. He will be speaking on October 26, from 7 to 9 p.m., in Room E100 of the Veterinarian Medical Center. The student organization that is hosting the event is the Young Americans for Freedom (YAF).

Kyle Bristow, the chairman of Michigan State University chapter of YAF, said, “It is an honor to host Nick Griffin at my university. Griffin is going to explain how multiculturalism, mass immigration, and Islam are destroying Western civilization.”

The Young Americans for Freedom (YAF) is a conservative, non-partisan political organization that was founded on September 11, 1960. Former members of YAF include President Ronald Reagan, author Pat Buchanan, Congressmen Tom Tancredo and Dana Rohrabacher, Vice Presidents Dick Cheney and Dan Quayle, and actor John Wayne.

Over the last year and a half, MSU-YAF has hosted speeches by Congressman Tom Tancredo, Minuteman Civil Defense Corps President Chris Simcox, Center for Immigration Studies Executive Director Mark Krikorian, author of the forthcoming Born Gay Hoax Ryan Sorba, and many others.




Nick Griffin, Chairman of the British National Party, to Speak at Clemson University.

Nick Griffin is to speak at the Palmetto Ballroom, October 24, 8 pm at Clemson University. Mr. Griffin will be giving a guest lecture entitled "Islam, Terror, and Western Civilization." {snip}

Don’t miss this chance to hear him speak. Don’t agree with him? Want something clarified? There will be time set aside for questions and answers after the lecture.

Contact information bnpinusa@gmail.com

Conservative student organizations backed out of hosting Nick Griffin, chairman of the British National Party, because of the Wikipedia article about Mr. Griffin. The article is written largely by anti-BNP leftist. Thanks to one dedicated student the show will go on.

I remember him being invited to Bath but he was then barred " amid fears the event would bring chaos to the campus"
Yeah, I got the mail about that one.

The NUS is completely paranoid about him, and for some reason think that if ever anyone talks to him, ever, then they'll instantly become a super hatefull tool of neo-Fascism.

If anyone else here has ever been to NUS National Conference, then they too will know the Fun Times which occur any time that anyone stands up to say anything of a vaguely conservative viewpoint. Basically, they get boo-ed off stage pretty much instantly, and the Respect Party starts screaming abuse.

Eugh. Especially Owen Rees. What a twat...

Yeah, I got the mail about that one.

The NUS is completely paranoid about him, and for some reason think that if ever anyone talks to him, ever, then they'll instantly become a super hatefull tool of neo-Fascism.

If anyone else here has ever been to NUS National Conference, then they too will know the Fun Times which occur any time that anyone stands up to say anything of a vaguely conservative viewpoint. Basically, they get boo-ed off stage pretty much instantly, and the Respect Party starts screaming abuse.

Eugh. Especially Owen Rees. What a twat...

If anything if people actually hear him in full rant the majority would be put off anyway. Only people with a predisposition to this sort of bile will swallow it

Meh. I'm not a fan of the BNP all things considered. Far too visceral in tone and extreme in policy. That said, the approach to anything further right than Cameron Conservatism at university is a joke; tantamount to censorship in a bastion of free speech and thought.

If anything if people actually hear him in full rant the majority would be put off anyway. Only people with a predisposition to this sort of bile will swallow it
Quite.

It's more that most radical students will believe anything with any level of romanticism, and that quite a few would probably chum up with the BNP if they heard Griffin talk, which would discredit the NUS' pretty-left public face.
Meh. I'm not a fan of the BNP all things considered. Far too visceral in tone and extreme in policy. That said, the approach to anything further right than Cameron Conservatism at university is a joke; tantamount to censorship in a bastion of free speech and thought.
Agreed. The NUS stands up for pricks like Chavez and harps on about Freedom of the Press etc. but when you get anyone Conservative or further right, it becomes some kind of horrid 'socialist' circlejerk.

And I say 'socialist' not because I deride that movement, but more because it's not really socialism.

PS, how're you liking York Uni? TG me or something.

Quite.

It's more that most radical students will believe anything with any level of romanticism, and that quite a few would probably chum up with the BNP if they heard Griffin talk, which would discredit the NUS' pretty-left public face.

Agreed. The NUS stands up for pricks like Chavez and harps on about Freedom of the Press etc. but when you get anyone Conservative or further right, it becomes some kind of horrid 'socialist' circlejerk.

And I say 'socialist' not because I deride that movement, but more because it's not really socialism.

PS, how're you liking York Uni? TG me or something.

You should see the abuse we get for wearing "I love Boris" badges. Apparently, if AfroCarribbean society are correct, its politically incorrect because of Boris's "picaninny" statement. :rolleyes:

York's good anyway. I'll Tg at somepoint and elaborate, but essentially, 5 hours tuition time a week is fun.

If anyone else here has ever been to NUS National Conference, then they too will know the Fun Times which occur any time that anyone stands up to say anything of a vaguely conservative viewpoint. Basically, they get boo-ed off stage pretty much instantly, and the Respect Party starts screaming abuse.
And that’s one of the many, many reasons that Glasgow Uni have repeatedly declined to join the NUS.

Having two student unions controlled and run by Glasgow Uni students beats the pants off a hefty NUS subscription (£50,000 IIRC), forced franchisation of our Union cafeterias, vending machines, etc., the closure of one of our two Unions, and the removal of the student political body.

The NUS are nothing but a bunch of self-important politician wannabes.

You should see the abuse we get for wearing "I love Boris" badges. Apparently, if AfroCarribbean society are correct, its politically incorrect because of Boris's "picaninny" statement. :rolleyes:

York's good anyway. I'll Tg at somepoint and elaborate, but essentially, 5 hours tuition time a week is fun.

Abuse for wearing "I love Boris" badges MASSIVELY deserved.

1. Islam is outpopulating, outmaneuvering, and outpoliticizing Europe.
2. Islam is a dangerous religion that seeks to impose its "values" on other cultures.
3. Islam is in direct opposition to Western culture and its law system is in direct opposition to Western Common Law.
4. Therefore, Islam is an immediate threat to Western civilization.
5. Muslim population in Europe is set to double in the next thirty years.
6. Therefore, Islam is a long-term threat to Western civilization.
7. Therefore, if we are to retain our culture, something must be done.
8. Therefore, exeunt Marxism and leftist-Liberalism, enter the BNP.


I like how you leave number 7 so vague, the things the BNP does is what causes most of the hatred. Not only that, you have completely over simplified his views and conveniently left out his policies on immigration.

You should see the abuse we get for wearing "I love Boris" badges. Apparently, if AfroCarribbean society are correct, its politically incorrect because of Boris's "picaninny" statement. :rolleyes:
Ach, sad times, eh?
York's good anyway. I'll Tg at somepoint and elaborate, but essentially, 5 hours tuition time a week is fun.
5 hours a week?

I thought you were doing History, not History of Art :p
And that’s one of the many, many reasons that Glasgow Uni have repeatedly declined to join the NUS.

Having two student unions controlled and run by Glasgow Uni students beats the pants off a hefty NUS subscription (£50,000 IIRC), forced franchisation of our Union cafeterias, vending machines, etc., the closure of one of our two Unions, and the removal of the student political body.
Aye, fair play.

Oh - regarding Glasgow - is it any good? I'm considering putting it down on my UCAS, but am not really sure. Planning to do History, heard it was quite good.
The NUS are nothing but a bunch of self-important politician wannabes.
Quite.

The only reason our union stays on is basically for National Conference, which is The Most Fun Evar.

I like how you leave number 7 so vague, the things the BNP does is what causes most of the hatred. Not only that, you have completely over simplified his views and conveniently left out his policies on immigration.
More to the point, perhaps Griffin himself left out his policies on immigration and oversimplified his views in this speech - wouldn't exactly be a surprise.

More to the point, perhaps Griffin himself left out his policies on immigration and oversimplified his views in this speech - wouldn't exactly be a surprise.

Yeah probably, but I'm sure the op is well aware of his policies anyway.

Oh–regarding Glasgow–is it any good? I’m considering putting it down on my UCAS, but am not really sure. Planning to do History, heard it was quite good.
Yeah, the History depatment is a good one, at least that’s what my friends doing History say. As a Philosophy student, I have nothing but praise for my department; they bend over backwards to help out.

Glasgow’s a good university, if I do say so myself. It has a lively, active student body, and as campus is in the middle of Glasgow’s West End, there’s always something going on; the student’s are very much part of the West End’s culture. And the West End is beautiful; leafy roads with spacious tenements. I can attest to it being a great, and friendly, place to live.

The uni’s facilities are grand, and there’s plenty of opportunity to get involved. Although I wouldn’t know, the sports facilities/clubs are apparently excellent. More importantly perhaps, Glasgow’s a research university, and IIRC gets the highest research grant anywhere in the UK.

And to top it all off, Glasgow is a barrel of laughs to live in. It’s got the best nightlife outside of London, and if you’re into it, some of the best shopping districts in the UK. Great music scene — live and club — and a 20-min drive or 35-min walk takes you out into the beautiful countryside. I can walk to Loch Lomond from my flat in around an hour.

All in all, I’d highly recommend Glasgow as one of your choices; come up and see for yourself!

Yeah, because as a Yank you'd know a whole ton about it, right?

No, because as a person that speaks daily with Muslims from all around the world, I know of quite a few people in east london that are prime candidates for al-qaeda training camps. They talk to me openly about it. They are no more older, for the most part, than 18. They glorify people such as Juba, the infamous, and now dead, Iraqi sniper. They also glorify IEDs. Now, i know, it'd be stupid for me to say all Muslim youth in Britain is like that, but with my experiences in talking with , plus all the "undercover" research into the rise of radical clerics in the mosques, leads me to believe that there is some sort of problem brewing. Perhaps its because of poverty, or negative influences, or whatever. No matter the cause, if there is a problem, then it should be fixed. Or at least, in this case, be balanced out for the time being.

Have you every actually spoken to a Muslim, or even an Arab in your life?

They're very much like the rest of us, you know, they just don't drink alcohol (more to the point, they often don't). Their culture is actually pretty similar.

They have a pretty similar sense of humour and way of life, to be honest.

It's so easy to hate people you don't know. I know two Muslims fairly well, and I've had fascinating conversations with them. They're -quite honestly- among the most intelligent, educated, open-minded and progressive people I've met. Feminists, in favour of gay marriage... The kind of people ultra-conservative white "traditionalists" would hate.

And let me tell you, he was amazing. The whole speech was brilliant and brilliantly executed. I don't understand why people (non-Muslims, that is) hate him so much.


I'm sure you're a puppet... I just wonder who is pulling the strings.

No, because as a person that speaks daily with Muslims from all around the world, I know of quite a few people in east london that are prime candidates for al-qaeda training camps. They talk to me openly about it. They are no more older, for the most part, than 18. They glorify people such as Juba, the infamous, and now dead, Iraqi sniper. They also glorify IEDs. Now, i know, it'd be stupid for me to say all Muslim youth in Britain is like that, but with my experiences in talking with , plus all the "undercover" research into the rise of radical clerics in the mosques, leads me to believe that there is some sort of problem brewing. Perhaps its because of poverty, or negative influences, or whatever. No matter the cause, if there is a problem, then it should be fixed. Or at least, in this case, be balanced out for the time being.

I really can't see how having extremists on both sides is a good thing. If anything, it will just encourage even more idiots to take sides.

I really can't see how having extremists on both sides is a good thing. If anything, it will just encourage even more idiots to take sides.

I just figured if you have two groups of idiots that oppose each other the middle, more intelligent people would stray away from them. It works well in American politics ;)

I wonder if trolls trawl for people to troll?

Truly.









Sorry.

And let me tell you, he was amazing. The whole speech was brilliant and brilliantly executed. I don't understand why people (non-Muslims, that is) hate him so much.

I'm a Jew.

The last time a bunch of fascist, bigoted fuck-holes like the BNP came around talking about what a great danger a religious minority group was, it was bad news for me and my people. I am under no illusions that just because the BNP is against Muslims instead of Jews, that this makes them any less of a danger.

No, the BNP is a stinking, festering, open wound on the genitals of western civilization, and must be eradicated, its members thrown back to whatever country they came from. Stupidfuckholistan, I think.


His basic message was:

1. Islam is outpopulating, outmaneuvering, and outpoliticizing Europe.
2. Islam is a dangerous religion that seeks to impose its "values" on other cultures.
3. Islam is in direct opposition to Western culture and its law system is in direct opposition to Western Common Law.
4. Therefore, Islam is an immediate threat to Western civilization.
5. Muslim population in Europe is set to double in the next thirty years.
6. Therefore, Islam is a long-term threat to Western civilization.
7. Therefore, if we are to retain our culture, something must be done.
8. Therefore, exeunt Marxism and leftist-Liberalism, enter the BNP.

Yeah I can't wait to hear his plan about how Muslims should be deported (like the Jews) or forced to wear special identification (like the Jews) and how they are a clear and present danger to the nation (like the Jews) and the economy (like the Jews) and to traditional family values (like the Jews) and how maybe even rounding them all up in train cars (like the Jews) and sending them to Happy Camps (like the Jews) would be a good idea.

Ah...irrational xenophobia and racism. Makes me proud to be British.

York's good anyway. I'll Tg at somepoint and elaborate, but essentially, 5 hours tuition time a week is fun.
Five? Down in Sheffield (and that's the real Sheffield, not Hallam) we get three, although considering we get graded in our performance in each one, I'd rather keep it that way. And I've got enough coursework to do without having to prepare for two more each week.

Up with the Yorkshire History Student Crew!:p

Well, I've got to say that were I ever to become eligible to vote in Britain, only one political party would have my vote: BNP, and its leader, Nick Griffin!

Oh you poor dear! It appears that you've caught the deadly "fascist flu". Luckily, there is a quite simple cure. It just involves talking to an everyday non-Jihadist Muslim, or reading up from an informed (non-tabloid) source on topics such as Middle East issues, and the real contribution made by immigrants to the economy. Suddenly, miraculously, the illness will be cured. I call this novel, information-based approach "facting it out"

The BNP and the NDP (Germany) are probably the worst nationalist parties in Europe, except for the outright National-Socialist parties..which are the worst.:rolleyes:

Five? Down in Sheffield (and that's the real Sheffield, not Hallam) we get three, although considering we get graded in our performance in each one, I'd rather keep it that way. And I've got enough coursework to do without having to prepare for two more each week.

Up with the Yorkshire History Student Crew!:p

Ha! None of my first year matters! At all, I just have to pass it!:D

No, because as a person that speaks daily with Muslims from all around the world, I know of quite a few people in east london that are prime candidates for al-qaeda training camps. They talk to me openly about it. They are no more older, for the most part, than 18. They glorify people such as Juba, the infamous, and now dead, Iraqi sniper. They also glorify IEDs. Now, i know, it'd be stupid for me to say all Muslim youth in Britain is like that, but with my experiences in talking with , plus all the "undercover" research into the rise of radical clerics in the mosques, leads me to believe that there is some sort of problem brewing. Perhaps its because of poverty, or negative influences, or whatever. No matter the cause, if there is a problem, then it should be fixed. Or at least, in this case, be balanced out for the time being.
The main problem is that of the right-wing press looking for any excuse to say that Muslims should get out - they go around the shittier ends of East London and basically quote the most mindless drones.

There will always be impressionable, angry people in places like the East End - it's a breeding ground for supporters of both the BNP and also radical Muslims, but luckily for the rest of us, it's in London, and hence they basically can't say a single word without someone hearing it 'for our own good'. Which is nice.

“We must preserve the white race, because it has been responsible for all the good things in civilisation”.

Nick Griffin, 1996.

BNP is a fucking racist group as is its fuhrer.

Five? Down in Sheffield (and that's the real Sheffield, not Hallam) we get three, although considering we get graded in our performance in each one, I'd rather keep it that way. And I've got enough coursework to do without having to prepare for two more each week.

Up with the Yorkshire History Student Crew!:p
:eek:

Sheffield is my first choice and everything... 3 hours of tutelage a week? Not much, no?

Ha! None of my first year matters! At all, I just have to pass it!:D
Same here, but we get graded for every single damned thing we say in every single History seminar - a problem for someone who likes to say stupid things on purpose...

And one of my favourite Simpsons lines just came on: "Drinking, Violence, Destruction Of Property...Are These The Things We Think Of When We Think Of The Irish?":D

Oh you poor dear! It appears that you've caught the deadly "fascist flu". Luckily, there is a quite simple cure. It just involves talking to an everyday non-Jihadist Muslim, or reading up from an informed (non-tabloid) source on topics such as Middle East issues, and the real contribution made by immigrants to the economy. Suddenly, miraculously, the illness will be cured. I call this novel, information-based approach "facting it out"

*applauds sincerely*

:eek:

Sheffield is my first choice and everything... 3 hours of tutelage a week? Not much, no?
And seven hours of lectures. But that doesn't really count.

No, because as a person that speaks daily with Muslims from all around the world, I know of quite a few people in east london that are prime candidates for al-qaeda training camps. They talk to me openly about it. They are no more older, for the most part, than 18. They glorify people such as Juba, the infamous, and now dead, Iraqi sniper. They also glorify IEDs. Now, i know, it'd be stupid for me to say all Muslim youth in Britain is like that, but with my experiences in talking with , plus all the "undercover" research into the rise of radical clerics in the mosques, leads me to believe that there is some sort of problem brewing. Perhaps its because of poverty, or negative influences, or whatever. No matter the cause, if there is a problem, then it should be fixed. Or at least, in this case, be balanced out for the time being.

Juba must only be infamous amoung the extremists and the people he shot at .. i for one have never heard of of him ... Infamous is only relevant if your amoungst the circle that talk about them ... If youd didnt follow the grande prix you might not know who ever wins that is highly paid/famous ... im pretty sure the world ping pong champions are pretty infamous/famous amongst the ping pong fans (Like Juba) ive never heard of him/her/them either ... would that mean that if they are not famous because i dont know them Juba isnt famous??
I bet with in a few miles of where ever it is you know these people that think extremism is good you could find people thinking extremism against your friends would be good for there beliefs (and i bet they go on about infamous people ive never heard of to lol)

As to the rise in undercover stuff happening in mosque etc erm yeah of course theres more of it after whats happened in the rest of the world .... funny how you mention that but im sure if you looked into it more you would find the number of non extremist viewed chelrics and mosque vastly out number the extremeist one .... but 'gasp's' you dont here about them because its hardly a headline is it ..... can see it now 'People go to Mosque and ....Pray :confused: ' sounds well interesting .. not


The only problem brewing is action by people who get sucked into the extremist views (you hang around long enough with a group of people and dont ever get anyone elses views and you start to believe the whole world thinks that way)... of course lots of muslims are going to be pissed at the USA and UK because whats going on ... but are you going to lay the blame totally on the USA and the UK after september the 11th ... nope it was extremists and i guess they were actibg on something they considered extremist against them that happened before

Next you will be saying if all most muslims sympathis with the extremists most brits want the UK and USA to pull out of iraq and Afaganastan .... well i know i dont! I support the reason they went into afganistan but i dont support the reason they went into iraq (they are well in the wrong for that) but if they pull out of iraq and afganastan now the countries will go crazy ..... heck the USA and UK could be said to be helping the extremists stay alive in Iraq ... Bin Ladens supporters there are the minority right?? and i believe if we pulled out most of them would die at the hands of 'gasps' other muslims

And seven hours of lectures. But that doesn't really count.
I'd say it does. A bit.

Balancing out extremists with extremists will only cause problems.

No matter the cause, if there is a problem, then it should be fixed. Or at least, in this case, be balanced out for the time being.
What good would come from 'balancing' a small set of (religious) extremists with a small set of (nationalist) extremists?

What good would come from 'balancing' a small set of (religious) extremists with a small set of (nationalist) extremists?

We can bet on the outcome.

Who came to your uni?

I just figured if you have two groups of idiots that oppose each other the middle, more intelligent people would stray away from them. It works well in American politics ;)

OK, got you. Still not convinced though. I can't help but worry that each group of extremists will use the other as a recruiting tool. Much like the OP claims Nick Griffin is doing.

Balancing out extremists with extremists will only cause problems.

Now that's the most reasonable response I've heard here.

I'd say it does. A bit.
It's hardly strenuous work.:p

I just found out that the very same Nick Griffin is speaking at my university tonight! I think I might just go and listen.

I also here there's going to be a large protest outside. It could get interesting, if what happened when Tancredo visited is anything to go by.

And let me tell you, he was amazing. The whole speech was brilliant and brilliantly executed. I don't understand why people (non-Muslims, that is) hate him so much.

His basic message was:

1. Islam is outpopulating, outmaneuvering, and outpoliticizing Europe.
2. Islam is a dangerous religion that seeks to impose its "values" on other cultures.
3. Islam is in direct opposition to Western culture and its law system is in direct opposition to Western Common Law.
4. Therefore, Islam is an immediate threat to Western civilization.
5. Muslim population in Europe is set to double in the next thirty years.
6. Therefore, Islam is a long-term threat to Western civilization.
7. Therefore, if we are to retain our culture, something must be done.
8. Therefore, exeunt Marxism and leftist-Liberalism, enter the BNP.

I especially enjoyed his points on how the Saudis are forcing Wahhabism down everyone's throats with their gobs and gobs of petrodollars. I found it interesting, too, that the Saudis were spending so much money trying to force a war with Iran because that would a) prevent them from getting their nuclear weapon which would b) prevent them from being a threat to the Saudis. The Saudis, being Sunnis, stand to lose a lot were they to be muscled out of Mecca by the Shi'a Iranians. Interesting, interesting.

Well, I've got to say that were I ever to become eligible to vote in Britain, only one political party would have my vote: BNP, and its leader, Nick Griffin!

YOU FAIL.

I just found out that the very same Nick Griffin is speaking at my university tonight! I think I might just go and listen.

I also here there's going to be a large protest outside. It could get interesting, if what happened when Tancredo visited is anything to go by.

If Nick Griffin came to speak at my university... I think I will use an equation to express this:

Muslim Student Association + Zombie Awareness Committee = Jihad with Nerf guns

I just found out that the very same Nick Griffin is speaking at my university tonight! I think I might just go and listen.

I also here there's going to be a large protest outside. It could get interesting, if what happened when Tancredo visited is anything to go by.

give him a heckle for me :)

give him a heckle for me :)

Nah, I'm one of those few people that see value in listening to other people's beliefs. I shall listen and take mental notes.