NationStates Jolt Archive

What’s your social class?

This is so political incorrect that I have to ask it. :)

I consider myself as middle class.

What's yours?

:eek: Another poll!

*tosses pc out the window*

I would have to go with lower middle class...

I think that my family is lower middle class (high school teachers), while I am on the upper end of the lower class (yearly income under 20 k€).

I don't work but I think my family would belong to the lower middle class. My dad's a high school teacher and my mother works part time in a shop. I voted working class in the poll.

middle class, by virtue of being the product of a union between a working class father and an ex-landed gentry mother.

I am a scion of privilege.

Grew up in a worker class family and it feels like that identity will stick with me no matter how my own career turns out. I usually don't think in terms of the class concept but I've grown to dislike smug upper class snobs enough to avoid becoming one of them even if my career goes well. I even go as far as avoiding to wear suit and tie other then when it's required.

I'm an independent social context free Asperger. So I neither acknowledge nor belong to any social class. That's for those who need that sense of belonging, or need to get their self confidence from placing themselves above others.
I'm just me.

Gonna go with perhaps.. Around the middle, but, perhaps towards the higher end of middle class.

My family are quite well off but my dad works very hard for his money so i'm not sure how that fits into your poll Edwinasia.

My family are quite well off but my dad works very hard for his money so i'm not sure how that fits into your poll Edwinasia.

Take Middle Class.

I'm a student :D I don't go to classes :p Especially not early ones ;)

Homeless.:p

I've always been told I'm in a class of my own, though rarely in a good way :mad:

I'm a middle class bourgeois counter-revolutionary enemy of the proletariat, or something amounting to that, anyway.

Working class scum and proud of it.:p

Stop with all the damned info threads, we have already have one.

I'm an independent social context free Asperger. So I neither acknowledge nor belong to any social class.

:rolleyes:

As it's impossible to be free from social context or social class, I'm going to say that you are, in fact, a pretentious middle-class wanker.

As for me - I'm upper-middle class by dint of education, social network, and experience. Doesn't stop me being not very well off tho' :p

"Working class hero".

:rolleyes:

As it's impossible to be free from social context or social class, I'm going to say that you are, in fact, a pretentious middle-class wanker.


Which is exactly my point: YOU have some compulsive need to attribute a social class to me, I'm not interested in such labeling.

i'm probably middle class. i went to private schools, i talk kinda posh, and i like some middle class things like fine food, rugby, and... stuff. but i work damn hard and don't have much money. what does that make me?

I don't think the idea of class is a particularly valid concept and don't think of myself in terms of belonging to a class.

Stop with all the damned info threads, we have already have one.

You're the only one, who's moaning -again-

You're the only one, who's moaning -again-

Just because nobody else cares doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I don't know. Economically, my parents are probably lower middle class, but I've been to Grammar school, talk, to quote PM "kinda posh", have "kinda posh" middle class friends, and enjoy middle classy activities.

Just because nobody else cares doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Can you teach us, little insect brains, to be as enlightened as you do?

hmm, highly rewarded proffessional in ones industry. I could say that i am upper middle class. But in a few years i may became nouveauie riches. Or not.

I don't know. Economically, my parents are probably lower middle class, but I've been to Grammar school, talk, to quote PM "kinda posh", have "kinda posh" middle class friends, and enjoy middle classy activities.
isn't your dad a police chief? no way that's a lower middle class job.

Can you teach us, little insect brains, to be as enlightened as you do?

No, but I can direct you to the spam (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=29) forum.

isn't your dad a police chief? no way that's a lower middle class job.

He's either an inspector, or chief inspector. I can't recall which, but that is not particularly high paying as a position. About £50,000 per annum if memory serves.

No, but I can direct you to the spam (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=29) forum.


You can always opt not to join.
Besides everything what I post, all my opinions are dumb anyway, in your eyes.

And I don't think it can be considered as spam.
It is teaching me something about the forum users.

It's making them more human and less 'just' a nickname above a posting.

I know this forum for several years.
Most subjects are rather serious, a few are light and a few are worthless.
And some subjects do not interest me, so I don't post anything in those threads.

Common sense is overrated probably...

I like the variation.

He's either an inspector, or chief inspector. I can't recall which, but that is not particularly high paying as a position. About £50,000 per annum if memory serves.

...



£50 grand a year is well high. firmly middle class at least.

Which is exactly my point: YOU have some compulsive need to attribute a social class to me, I'm not interested in such labeling.

Hurr no.

Do you interact with other people?

If the answer is yes, then you have a social context. If no, then you are a liar and a fantasist, or quite possibly the first and only solipsist to be right.

The manner in which you interact with other people, and they with you, provides your social class.

It is impossible to opt out of social context or class, I'm afraid, that's the way society is constructed and unless and until a different society is created which has incredibly radical ways of forming social relationships you will have class and social context.

You can always opt not to join.
Besides everything what I post, all my opinions are dumb anyway, in your eyes.

And I don't think it can be considered as spam.
It is teaching me something about the forum users.

It's making them more human and less 'just' a nickname above a posting.

I know this forum for several years.
Most subjects are rather serious, a few are light and a few are worthless.
And some subjects do not interest me, so I don't post anything in those threads.

Common sense is overrated probably...

I like the variation.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=444888

I'd say upper middle class. My parents work very hard and own their own company (which they founded). We do make a good amount of money but we have alot of expensives as my parents have to pay for university and private schooling for their children, not to mention the travelling and the money the put into their company.

But I work for my dad's company during the breaks when I don't have classes, otherwise my parents beleive that my occupation is being a student, so I am not forced to work. I am very fortunate and I apreaciate that, of course.

As for the whole "talk posh" thing..I think that's more of a British thing because in America there isn't as much of a defined class system..there is alot more social mobility and you usually can't tell who is middle class-upper-class, lower-class when they are kids/teens/young adults (in school and in college/university).

We have the same accents and many times like the same music and such.

... in America there isn't as much of a defined class system

BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHA :p

You're joking, right?

Hurr no.

Do you interact with other people?

If the answer is yes, then you have a social context. If no, then you are a liar and a fantasist, or quite possibly the first and only solipsist to be right.

The manner in which you interact with other people, and they with you, provides your social class.

It is impossible to opt out of social context or class, I'm afraid, that's the way society is constructed and unless and until a different society is created which has incredibly radical ways of forming social relationships you will have class and social context.


It is not impossible, but it is indeed hard.

If your parents are working class than odds are high that you'll be working class as well.

But not always. Some manage to enter university or college and get a nice job later.

They will get to know another subculture, other kind (but not better or worse) of people and can make themselves familiar with them.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=444888

The list is not complete. By instance, Edwinasia is missing.

And lots of data is incomplete.

And look, what started as a 'light' thread, can become a serious one...

It is not impossible, but it is indeed hard.

You've mistaken 'opting out of the class system and society itself altogether' with social mobility, whereby a very very small number of people move up (very rarely down - an aristocrat with no money is still an aristocrat) the class ladder.

I am upper middle class. My mother is a teacher, my stepfather owns an air conditioning and heating system installation company and my father is vice president of a wireless internet company.

BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHA :p

You're joking, right?
Nope. Of course we still have alot of rich and alot of poor and not as much of that "fantastic equality" that Europeans tend to crave....but I said "not as much" aka, a comparison....

In Europe, class mobility is generally much more limited than in America...and classes are still much more what you're born into....

It's generally not so common for a low class person to marry a high class person.

In America, class doesn't really matter as much and can be changed over night. You go to college/university, you're really good at what you do, you make connections in college and you do internships, you have opportunities waiting outside when you're done...you have people who know what you can already do...and bam, you got a good steady paying job. (Doesn't make you rich, but certainly not poor) and then there is the posibility to go up after that.

And don't tell me that's not possible, people are doing that all around me, I'm in a university right now....

Also, before you say "what if they can't pay for college"...there is so much acedemic based scholarship it's not even funny. I hardly even pay for university.

Look here at Edwinisas' comment:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13163360&postcount=37
"If your parents are working class than odds are high that you'll be working class as well."

That's simply not so in America....

You've mistaken 'opting out of the class system and society itself altogether' with social mobility, whereby a very very small number of people move up (very rarely down - an aristocrat with no money is still an aristocrat) the class ladder.

Yes I did, sorry :)

You can always opt not to join.
Besides everything what I post, all my opinions are dumb anyway, in your eyes.

And I don't think it can be considered as spam.
It is teaching me something about the forum users.

It's making them more human and less 'just' a nickname above a posting.

this is not spam.

this forum has become dull with all the endlessly repeated "debates" and lack of social interactivity, or real camaraderie with other posters. this kind of thread is just what this place needs.
Stop with all the damned info threads, we have already have one.

:rolleyes: shut it, you.

I'm a teacher. I'd have to say I'm lower middle-class. It's difficult to say, in France; we don't really think in terms of "social classes".

Nope.

...

That's simply not so in America....

Utter, utter tosh.

The US is just as class-based as any other society is; from 'trailer trash' to the Ivy League's scions who have butlers and servants via the middle American (passing over, of course, the various impoverished ethnic minorities and the bottom-of-the-heap American Indians), it is a mistake to think that the US of A is classless, or even not-as-much-class. Hells' bells, you've even got a Presidential 'dynasty' in Bush II (and probably Clinton II, soon, as well)...!

this is not spam.

this forum has become dull with all the endlessly repeated "debates" and lack of social interactivity, or real camaraderie with other posters. this kind of thread is just what this place needs.
.

Exactly my opinion as well.

I adore champagne, but I don't mind to drink a Coke as well.

Utter, utter tosh.

The US is just as class-based as any other society is; from 'trailer trash' to the Ivy League's scions who have butlers and servants via the middle American (passing over, of course, the various impoverished ethnic minorities and the bottom-of-the-heap American Indians), it is a mistake to think that the US of A is classless, or even not-as-much-class. Hells' bells, you've even got a Presidential 'dynasty' in Bush II (and probably Clinton II, soon, as well)...!
hell's bells! i love that expression.

I'm a teacher. I'd have to say I'm lower middle-class. It's difficult to say, in France; we don't really think in terms of "social classes".

Is *everybody* watching the football?

How is 'France' looking at the immigrants in Saint-Denis?

How do they look at the people of the north (Pas-de-Calais region), which are in general rather poor...?

Maybe "Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité" is working a little, but I have the feeling there're 'classes' as well.

I live in Belgium. The differences between your and mine country aren't that big.

But I can assure we have 'classes'.

hell's bells! i love that expression.

It's a good 'un. I'm just ashamed that I misspelt it. :(

Originally Posted by Atopiana

Utter, utter tosh.

The US is just as class-based as any other society is; from 'trailer trash' to the Ivy League's scions who have butlers and servants via the middle American (passing over, of course, the various impoverished ethnic minorities and the bottom-of-the-heap American Indians), it is a mistake to think that the US of A is classless, or even not-as-much-class. Hells' bells, you've even got a Presidential 'dynasty' in Bush II (and probably Clinton II, soon, as well)...!


I'm wondering how they will call Bill when Hillary is elected...

The First Lady?
The First Gentleman?

I'm hoping for something like First House-President :p

In my country, I'm middle class. I was in the lower middle class when I was born, but my family has moved up a bit during my lifetime and I'm now starting out at a slightly higher level than my parents were at when they were my age.

However, if my situation is put in a global context, I'm obscenely wealthy.

However, if my situation is put in a global context, I'm obscenely wealthy.

Not really. You're just rich. You want truly obscene wealth? Try Bill Gates, at 56 billion dollars.

I don't know. How does one know this?

Not really. You're just rich. You want truly obscene wealth? Try Bill Gates, at 56 billion dollars.
I guess that's a matter of opinion. Personally, I consider the income disparity between me and the average person world-wide to be pretty fucking obscene.

I guess that's a matter of opinion. Personally, I consider the income disparity between me and the average person world-wide to be pretty fucking obscene.

I probably count as obscenely wealthy on a world scale, and maybe even in my area I am wealthy, but probably nationally I am lower middle class. I have enough money to pay my bills, running water, enough food to eat, my kids get health care, we have a vehicle, and enough money to keep pets, we have 2 days of the week when we don't have to work and we have an entertainment budget.

I was once told by a missionary that if you have ever read a book for fun, you are probably wealthy on a world scale, first for being able to afford to buy a book, second for having enough education to be able to read it, and third for having the leisure time to read it in. I check my books out at the library though :p

I don't know. How does one know this?

How do you define class, is the answer to that. :p

Is it purely social? Is it purely economic? Is it, in fact, a mix of the two - and if so, which is more important? That it exists is agreed by most academic commentators, and the majority of sociologists.

What sort of school did you go to, how rich are you, how well read are you, what forms of entertainment do you prefer... all of these are questions that can be asked to ascertain what your socio-economic class is.

The simplest form of class is this:

Do you have the power of hire and fire over others?

If yes, you're a member of the boss class.
If no, you're a member of the working class.

@ Bottle - Da, is true, but the income disparity between you and Bill Gates is even more obscene still. What's it like for the people on US$2/day? ;)

I was once told by a missionary that if you have ever read a book for fun, you are probably wealthy on a world scale, first for being able to afford to buy a book, second for having enough education to be able to read it, and third for having the leisure time to read it in. I check my books out at the library though :p
Oy, if books are used as the measure then I'm probably richer than Bill Gates after all. I grew up in a home where there were bookshelves in the bathroom.

I don't know. How does one know this?
I don't know either, but more importantly, I don't care.

Without wishing to sound like some idealist socially inclusive dreamer I think that the whole concept of 'class' and class division, much like the caste divisions in India, are anachronistic and damaging to society as a whole. It is only because people allow themselves to be brainwashed into self-identifying as such and such a class that the ideas have even been able to last this long.

Seriously, we should all be getting over this. It's not like (in most of the places we are posting from) your right to vote, or your right to work, or to hold public office, or to access education, or any of a multitude of other aspects of society that have, at one time or another, been restricted to an elite, are still restricted in such a way.

It just boils down to more bloody labels to try and categorise people. They're people, dammit!

It's a good 'un. I'm just ashamed that I misspelt it. :(

eh, punctuation is merely a formality ;)

I don't know either, but more importantly, I don't care.

Without wishing to sound like some idealist socially inclusive dreamer I think that the whole concept of 'class' and class division, much like the caste divisions in India, are anachronistic and damaging to society as a whole. It is only because people allow themselves to be brainwashed into self-identifying as such and such a class that the ideas have even been able to last this long.

Seriously, we should all be getting over this. It's not like (in most of the places we are posting from) your right to vote, or your right to work, or to hold public office, or to access education, or any of a multitude of other aspects of society that have, at one time or another, been restricted to an elite, are still restricted in such a way.

It just boils down to more bloody labels to try and categorise people. They're people, dammit!
Your mistake is in assuming that anybody who is aware of class differences must be happy about them.

I'm aware that I belong to the middle class in my country, just like I'm aware that I have white skin. Whether I like it or not, my country has a whole lot of classism and racism floating around in it, and I'm going to be impacted by it. Being AWARE that this happens does not in any way constitute an ENDORSEMENT of it. Indeed, I think that I must be aware in order to have any chance at helping to fix the problems that result from classism and racism.

You're probably middle class or above, which is why you have the luxury of "not caring" what class you belong to. That's one of the unearned perks that classism awards you. Just because you magnanimously state that you don't care about it doesn't mean you aren't enjoying the perks of classism.

Oy, if books are used as the measure then I'm probably richer than Bill Gates after all. I grew up in a home where there were bookshelves in the bathroom.

If books are used as a measure as a librarian does that make me President of the World Bank.

Do you have the power of hire and fire over others?

If yes, you're a member of the boss class.
If no, you're a member of the working class.
I own my own businesses. I still have to work like 80 hours a week.

working class for me. Although my kids look like moving up.

Your mistake is in assuming that anybody who is aware of class differences must be happy about them.

I'm aware that I belong to the middle class in my country, just like I'm aware that I have white skin. Whether I like it or not, my country has a whole lot of classism and racism floating around in it, and I'm going to be impacted by it. Being AWARE that this happens does not in any way constitute an ENDORSEMENT of it. Indeed, I think that I must be aware in order to have any chance at helping to fix the problems that result from classism and racism.

You're probably middle class or above, which is why you have the luxury of "not caring" what class you belong to. That's one of the unearned perks that classism awards you. Just because you magnanimously state that you don't care about it doesn't mean you aren't enjoying the perks of classism.
I'm not sure where in my post you're getting the idea that I think that people should be happy about class differences.

On endorsement, I am not suggesting that you (or any other poster in the thread, with the possible exception of the one who decided that (s)he was richer than everyone else because of their location) are endorsing it, or claiming it to be a good thing. What I am saying is that, via our self-identification as belonging to this or that class, we are simply perpetuating it for yet another generation.

Of course awareness of the situation is the primary precondition for attempting to fix the problem, you'll get no disagreement from me on that.

On my own situation, I really don't know how I would be classified. One of my parents was very well educated, but they both worked to support the family. I myself worked for 15 years after leaving school until I had finally put away enough money to be able to fund my degree at University (I'd probably have been able to afford it all a lot sooner if I hadn't decided to get married and buy a house along the way). Regardless, whether or not that makes me middle class or above in someone else's view is of absolutely no interest to me.

I did a lot of research to determine my social class.

I can now say with authority that my social class is 88-D-007-02-2.

I have no idea what this means.

But I am reasonably certain that the people in 89-C-007-02-5 suck.

I did a lot of research to determine my social class.

I can now say with authority that my social class is 88-D-007-02-2.

I have no idea what this means.

But I am reasonably certain that the people in 89-C-007-02-5 suck.

I'm not allowed, by my parents, to talk with people from the '88-D-007-02-2' class.

But, f*ck them ! :)

Over 50 people voted now and not one Hillbilly!

Liars ! :)

Over 50 people voted now and not one Hillbilly!

Liars ! :)

Yep coz hillbillies can afford a 'puter let alone the internet :rolleyes:

Over 50 people voted now and not one Hillbilly!

Liars ! :)

Well Wikipedia is telling me that one theory about the origin of the word 'Hillbilly' was to describe Ulster-Scots so, if that's true, I suppose I count as one

Here's one situation where i'm hoping Wiki has it's info very very wrong

Protestant King William III, Prince of Orange, led an English counterforce into Ireland and defeated James II at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690. A significant portion of William III's army was composed of Protestants of Scottish descent (Planters) who had settled in Ulster in northern Ireland. The southern Irish Catholic supporters of James II referred to these northern Protestant supporters of King William as "Hill-Billies"[citation needed] and "Billy Boys"--Billy being an abbreviation of William. It is believed that the term "hillbilly" in the United States was conferred during the early 18th century by the occupying British soldiers as a carry over from the Irish term, in referring to Scotch-Irish immigrants of mainly Presbyterian origin, dwelling in the frontier areas of the Appalachian Mountains[citation needed]. These Protestant Irish colonists brought their cultural traditions with them when they immigrated. Many of their stories, songs and ballads dealt with the history of their Ulster and Lowland Scot homelands, especially relating the tale of the Protestant King William III, Prince of Orange.

Note the bold

Born on the borderline of working & middle-class, descended from low working class, partook of education on the border of upper class, but currently living in upper-middle. Complex I know.
Working class morals, upper class ideals, middle-class reality.

Well Wikipedia is telling me that one theory about the origin of the word 'Hillbilly' was to describe Ulster-Scots so, if that's true, I suppose I count as one

Here's one situation where i'm hoping Wiki has it's info very very wrong



Note the bold

You're, worse case, a historical ‘Hillbilly’

I consider myself an aristocrat, which I feel has more to do with my resentment towards egalitarianism and the culture of 'lowest-common denominator', along with the Power that prostitutes itself to it, than my bloodline of expropriated Anglo-Saxon nobility.

bottom upper

What’s your social class?

This is so political incorrect that I have to ask it. :)

I consider myself as middle class.

What's yours?

:eek: Another poll!

I hate your poll I am Middle Class and my family work hard to go from being poor to upper middle class.

I have no idea...

I hate your poll I am Middle Class and my family work hard to go from being poor to upper middle class.

Who is entering the answers in the poll?

You or your family?

If it is you, answer Middle Class.

Who is entering the answers in the poll?

You or your family?

If it is you, answer Middle Class.

What if they don't fit into your idea of a lazy middle class?

Who is entering the answers in the poll?

You or your family?

If it is you, answer Middle Class.

Yea, but we're not a lazy middle class.

Lower middle...

I hate your poll I am Middle Class and my family work hard to go from being poor to upper middle class.
No, they didn't. To clarify, maybe they worked hard, but they're not upper-middle class. Class is more a measure of social status than economic.

Parents both working class but I was born into a relatively privileged position. I work as a 'professional', have a decent education (university) and my lifestyle is comfortable, I guess, so I'm middle class.

Ask a toff, however, and they'll denigrate my bredding and call me working. Or lower.

I repeat: economic status is not the main consideration.

My parents are upper middle class. My dad is an insurance agent and my mom is an operations manager for 1800Flowers.

I personally am upper lower class, and my fiance is without a doubt upper middle class. I'm a hotel front desk clerk and my fiance is a executive at his fathers construction company.

I'm a student, but my family is middle-upper middle class I believe.

Noble here. Except that, as a student, all money is new money.

I’m a student, but my family is middle-upper middle class I believe.
Middle-upper middle class?

Psssh, I’m part of a middle-upper middle-lower upper-middle middle class family.

:p

I'm sure my family would be considered upper Middle

Higher middle-class. Both my parents are psychologists. One has her own company, and one is employ by the state.

Well, I work and I have class..

Upper-middle-middle class. Not upper class, not lower class, not upper-midddle, nor middle-middle.

Of course, as this little bit of hyphenation shows what I believe to be the abject failure of the popular construction of this so-called class system. It's blurred and imprecise. It's a continuum, society, not with clear delineation between the "classes" or anything.

Although, if you ask a Marxist, given that I'm a student I'm actually classless, because my relations to the means of production is zilch. I just sit around, eat Fritos and bother my profs.

Middle-upper middle class?

Psssh, I’m part of a middle-upper middle-lower upper-middle middle class family.

:p

So basically, if the lower and upper canceled each other out and just became middle, you'd be between middle and upper-middle middle class, which is still middle-upper middle class. It means we're the same.:p

I still think talking about personal information on the forums is still rather disturbing. So I'll get it over with now, as long as you are pursuing demographic information.

I am male, 25 years old; I am middle class, I assume; in a very loving relationship with my girlfriend; I do work, strenuously, but by your definition of 'hard work', no, not since first jobs back in the teens; I am getting my Ph.D in Physics very soon now, and intend to do research afterwards, and find random time to post on NSG; my political views are strongly Libertarian, leaning slightly to the left on some issues and slightly to the right on others; I attend a Presbyterian church, and apply various theological ideas to the practice; and all I say about where I live is 'Eastern half of the United States'. All I will say. Gender, Age, Class, Relationship/ Sexual Orientation, Education, Politics, Religion, and generic Location.

I'm pretty sure that in the event of the "Glorious Revolution" both sides will be coming to kill me. I'm too far up to join the peasant masses, and am thus a potentially dangerous counterrevolutionary bourgeoisie. On the other hand, I'm not high enough to be an actual counterrevolutionary bourgeoisie, and am thus a potentially dangerous revolutionary peasant.

This is probably why I find the whole idea of revolution so revolting. No matter what happens, it ends poorly for me.

So...whatever the above makes me.

I think you can break "class" down both economically and socially.

For example, a plumber who owns his own company can make significantly more money than a college professor. Economically, he might be considered upper class, but socially he would still fall into the working class.

What am I? I'm a lawyer married to another lawyer, our income is on the same level as our social standing. I would say, characterize us as professional upper class.

I'm a working class hero. I'm not starving, but I'll never be rich as well.

I'm a gal who has worked very hard, walked tall, kept my chin up and am now enjoying life's rewards.

I guess you could say I'm lucky ;) Perhaps that should be included.

Upper middle class, born and raised. I'd like to move in to the upper class.

I don't believe in Social Class. There's only those who have money, and how much they own.

My mom is an elementary school teacher and my dad works for the county child support enforcement office. Is that middle class, probably?

I can't tell if my family has new money or old money..

How many generations back do you need to be to have old money?

I'm a card-carrying member of the Neu Leonstein class. We're immigrants whose families come from reasonably well-off lifestyles but fell on hard times in more recent years. We work as pizza delivery drivers and university students. Our economic interest is mainly in getting rich through work and achievement, while our political leaning is towards free-market libertarianism. We enjoy cars and making fun of the notion of class on an internet forum.

Lower middle class. Somewhat poor in this area.

So basically, if the lower and upper canceled each other out and just became middle, you’d be between middle and upper-middle middle class, which is still middle-upper middle class. It means we’re the same.:p
Damn.

Anyhoo, in actuality I’m a student, and as Andaluciae noted, most modern forms of Marxism would label me as ‘classless’.

I'm a card-carrying member of the Neu Leonstein class. We're immigrants whose families come from reasonably well-off lifestyles but fell on hard times in more recent years. We work as pizza delivery drivers and university students. Our economic interest is mainly in getting rich through work and achievement, while our political leaning is towards free-market libertarianism. We enjoy cars and making fun of the notion of class on an internet forum.

Class exists. Sorry if it doesn't really fit in with your world view.

Class exists.
That depends entirely on how you define it. Class in the marxist sense clearly does not.

That depends entirely on how you define it. Class in the marxist sense clearly does not.

Please elaborate

I was born into a $250,000 per year family... And then, in 1997, things really fell apart. We became a $0 per year "family" (I say "family" because a dad and two kids who really don't connect so well aren't a real family).

My brother and I now work at a supermarket and clean houses and offices in between, and make around $30,000 combined. My dad does nothing. After college, things will change, but for now, I'm strictly Working Class, descended from that lofty plateau of Upper-Middle Classmen.

My personality is... Well, I'm just me. The money I make or sit on has never been who I am, nor will it ever be. The only thing my monetary wealth defines is my ability to buy things.

I was born into a $250,000 per year family... And then, in 1997, things really fell apart. We became a $0 per year "family" (I say "family" because a dad and two kids who really don't connect so well aren't a real family).

My brother and I now work at a supermarket and clean houses and offices in between, and make around $30,000 combined. My dad does nothing. After college, things will change, but for now, I'm strictly Working Class, descended from that lofty plateau of Upper-Middle Classmen.

My personality is... Well, I'm just me. The money I make or sit on has never been who I am, nor will it ever be. The only thing my monetary wealth defines is my ability to buy things.

Keep on truckin' dude - make your future :)

I'm a middle class bourgeois counter-revolutionary enemy of the proletariat, or something amounting to that, anyway.

I second that.

Proletariat scum...

No one heard that!

I was born into a $250,000 per year family... And then, in 1997, things really fell apart. We became a $0 per year "family" (I say "family" because a dad and two kids who really don't connect so well aren't a real family).

My brother and I now work at a supermarket and clean houses and offices in between, and make around $30,000 combined. My dad does nothing. After college, things will change, but for now, I'm strictly Working Class, descended from that lofty plateau of Upper-Middle Classmen.

My personality is... Well, I'm just me. The money I make or sit on has never been who I am, nor will it ever be. The only thing my monetary wealth defines is my ability to buy things.

Can I ask what happened?

I was raised in a upper-middle class household. Both my parents were computer programmers before my twin sister and I were born. My mother took some time off to raise us when we were young, decided she hated putting up with corporate bullshit, and became a massage therapist. My sister got her masters degree in electronic engineering last year, strongly influenced by our engineer godfather. I am now working on my doctorate in Psychology. So we'll probably stay upper-middle class.

Please elaborate
Marxism holds that people are more or less defined by their economical and material environment, correct?

Classes in marxist theory are defined by their relation to capital, right?

One's economical and material environment (at least in Marx' time) was directly related to one's relation to capital, correct?

Therefore people, in their needs, wishes and wants as well as their outlook on life, should be defined by their class, right?

They aren't, therefore there's something wrong here. It's not the second or third point, and the fourth is just a logical follow-up from the previous assumptions.

So something's wrong with the first one.

Or, if you didn't like that one, I'd suggest that you try and determine exactly what your relation to the productive capacity in the economy is. Or that Wal-Mart worker's, who just got a few shares in the company for finishing his shift supervisor training. Whatever relationships Marx believed to have identified in his time, they're not around anymore. So where does that leave classes and especially class struggle?

Inept.

:(

Marxism holds that people are more or less defined by their economical and material environment, correct?

Classes in marxist theory are defined by their relation to capital, right?

One's economical and material environment (at least in Marx' time) was directly related to one's relation to capital, correct?

Therefore people, in their needs, wishes and wants as well as their outlook on life, should be defined by their class, right?

They aren't, therefore there's something wrong here. It's not the second or third point, and the fourth is just a logical follow-up from the previous assumptions.

So something's wrong with the first one.

Or, if you didn't like that one, I'd suggest that you try and determine exactly what your relation to the productive capacity in the economy is. Or that Wal-Mart worker's, who just got a few shares in the company for finishing his shift supervisor training. Whatever relationships Marx believed to have identified in his time, they're not around anymore. So where does that leave classes and especially class struggle?

Well, sure there are problems with the marxist theory (and not just that, as with any theory, it places too much weight on the subject of the investigation). But class does play a role in developing your identity. It's more pronounced somewhere like England (where no one would say class doesn't exist) but it does exist in the US and it shapes your identity. The Wal-mart worker isn't the best example as he still doesn't control the means of production. I'm not the best example either as I produce independently.

Can I ask what happened?

You're asking to ask a question you already asked by writing this?

Bah!

I've said this probably a dozen times on this forum, but, I'm from Connecticut. Not pompous, just true.

New Rich, I guess (There isn't exactly old money in the US, to be fair). My folks made their money off of the tech boom. They'd like to say we're upper middle class, but I go to a 40,000 a year school and my father has basically said he could quit his job and still pay for my schooling and my brothers' schooling without discomfort, so...

I've said this probably a dozen times on this forum, but, I'm from Connecticut. Not pompous, just true.

Look pal, I grew up with quite a few people from Connecticut, and they were nowhere near wealthy...

New Rich, I guess (There isn't exactly old money in the US, to be fair). My folks made their money off of the tech boom. They'd like to say we're upper middle class, but I go to a 40,000 a year school and my father has basically said he could quit his job and still pay for my schooling and my brothers' schooling without discomfort, so...

Your name states that you're kinda sensible, so...

...Can I have some of that delicious money?

From the upper-middle class, currently a college student (I don't have an income of my own). My parents worked for Microsoft for years, and as a result, college won't be a big drain on our wallets (though my whopping academic scholarship won't hurt either).

I was born into a $250,000 per year family... And then, in 1997, things really fell apart. We became a $0 per year "family" (I say "family" because a dad and two kids who really don't connect so well aren't a real family).

My brother and I now work at a supermarket and clean houses and offices in between, and make around $30,000 combined. My dad does nothing. After college, things will change, but for now, I'm strictly Working Class, descended from that lofty plateau of Upper-Middle Classmen.

My personality is... Well, I'm just me. The money I make or sit on has never been who I am, nor will it ever be. The only thing my monetary wealth defines is my ability to buy things.

similar thing happened here too, dude. parents ran their own business, did very well, then the 1992 recession hit and Black Wednesday, and all of a sudden all our continental EU partners couldn't afford to work with us any more. after that things turned extra hairy and its basically taken this long to build the business up again, still badly in debt.

so i went from spoiled brat to (i hope) a normal, decent person overnight, in terms of my personality. my folks still work like 80 hours a week each (7 days) though. so we're middle class still in some ways, working class in others. tis confusing!

I was born into a $250,000 per year family... And then, in 1997, things really fell apart. We became a $0 per year "family" (I say "family" because a dad and two kids who really don't connect so well aren't a real family).

My brother and I now work at a supermarket and clean houses and offices in between, and make around $30,000 combined. My dad does nothing. After college, things will change, but for now, I'm strictly Working Class, descended from that lofty plateau of Upper-Middle Classmen.

My personality is... Well, I'm just me. The money I make or sit on has never been who I am, nor will it ever be. The only thing my monetary wealth defines is my ability to buy things.

It's only money. I lost 10 years ago everything, I had to restart from minus.

I was a snobbish materialistic bitching asshole.

Now, I'm just an asshole. :)

The worth of toys (cars and houses), nice clothes& furniture is overrated when it comes down to personal happiness.

I consider myself now richer compared to the times I was financial richer.

And the money will return maybe. And if not, I don’t care anymore.

I can't tell if my family has new money or old money..

How many generations back do you need to be to have old money?

If you're worrying about being new money or old money, you're new money.

Old rich worry about the same thing the rest of us do: money.

I'd say Im at the top of middle class. My dad earns 500 000 - 1 000 000 euros a year, depending on his bonus. But he still works somewhere and we've only been getting rich for about 3 generations, so I think im the top of the middle class (upper is own company/nobility)

I second that.

Proletariat scum...

No one heard that!
Erm... I don't hate working class people at all, I was just taking the piss ;)

insignificant Rural Peasant

upper is own company/nobility

owning a company =/= upper class, and certainly not on a par with nobility


some companies, yes. i'd say Alan Sugar of Amstrad would be upper class. but not an awful lot of SME owners

owning a company =/= upper class, and certainly not on a par with nobility


some companies, yes. i'd say Alan Sugar of Amstrad would be upper class. but not an awful lot of SME owners

Not all owners of companies are rich. I would rather think it's the opposite. :)

A company is not always 1000 employees big. Most companies exist from 1 person.

I know lots of one-man-stores that aren't making huge profits.

Not all owners of companies are rich. I would rather think it's the opposite. :)

A company is not always 1000 employees big. Most companies exist from 1 person.

I know lots of one-man-stores that aren't making huge profits.

exactly my point :)

Decadent aristocracy.

Born to win a Nobel Prize. Currently employed as a Hobo.

Nice thread, btw. Of course, the poll sucks.