NationStates Jolt Archive

Why is it that Americans not the American government raise millions of dollars everytime there is a natural disaster somewhere in the world. Why is it that the people of European nations aren't as giving as the Americans? I really don't expect people from third world nations to donate what they don't really have...

When the Tsunami hit in 2004, I raised over 2,000 myself to help out the displaced people. I know of people who raised or just donated more. I was barely making ends meet but I could come up with that much. I don't understand why others can't.

'Hi. I live in the San Bernardino Valley. I need money.'
Strange, doesn't quite fit...

Why is it that Americans not the American government raise millions of dollars everytime there is a natural disaster somewhere in the world. Why is it that the people of European nations aren't as giving as the Americans? I really don't expect people from third world nations to donate what they don't really have...

When the Tsunami hit in 2004, I raised over 2,000 myself to help out the displaced people. I know of people who raised or just donated more. I was barely making ends meet but I could come up with that much. I don't understand why others can't.


1) That's how Americans roll.

2) Everyone in the world believes that we are rich therefore can take care of ourselves.

1) That's how Americans roll.

2) Everyone in the world believes that we are rich therefore can take care of ourselves.

Didn't some people offer support and Aide after Katrina, but Bush, being the pinnacle of Geniusetry that he is, turned it down?

What's your point?

I hardly think that Southern California is in 'need' of donations. And, I am sure that most people there are adequately insured.

Didn't some people offer support and Aide after Katrina, but Bush, being the pinnacle of Geniusetry that he is, turned it down?

I was out of the country the whole time Katrina was happening but I do recall that BBC coverage of offers. Believe it or not help was accepted.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/07/AR2006090701341_pf.html

http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2005&m=September&x=20050902172415mbzemog0.1903803

Didn't some people offer support and Aide after Katrina, but Bush, being the pinnacle of Geniusetry that he is, turned it down?

It was Castro's "medical" teams, who are 50% about spreading the ideas of socialism and how great Socialized medicine is.

It was Castro's "medical" teams, who are 50% about spreading the ideas of socialism and how great Socialized medicine is.

I believe Cuba was turned down but don't believe anyone else was.

What's your point?

I hardly think that Southern California is in 'need' of donations. And, I am sure that most people there are adequately insured.

Maybe a plane load of sushi from Japan?

What's your point?

I hardly think that Southern California is in 'need' of donations. And, I am sure that most people there are adequately insured.

There are many middle class and poor that will need help to replace all they have lost. Sure the people in Malibu don't really need much help, but a lot of the people I know in Southern California live pay check to pay check and will have a horrible time trying to rebuild their lives.

It was Castro's "medical" teams, who are 50% about spreading the ideas of socialism and how great Socialized medicine is.

And the other 50% is about proving it by actually getting something done. :p

Why is it that Americans not the American government raise millions of dollars everytime there is a natural disaster somewhere in the world. Why is it that the people of European nations aren't as giving as the Americans? I really don't expect people from third world nations to donate what they don't really have...

When the Tsunami hit in 2004, I raised over 2,000 myself to help out the displaced people. I know of people who raised or just donated more. I was barely making ends meet but I could come up with that much. I don't understand why others can't.

Why don't you pull your head out of your @ss and consider that maybe, just maybe, your local news sources report on what Americans do to help in foreign crises and tend not to bother mentioning contributions by others (http://www.oecd.org/document/38/0,2340,en_2649_34447_35818278_1_1_1_1,00.html). And this just details the official, governmental response.

As to your assertions regarding the level of PERSONAL contributions, have you anything other than anecdotal xenophobia to back your allegations up?


I'm betting that you also assume that such personally involved aid groups like Médecins Sans Frontières are based out of Europe for tax reasons, but are actually American-based......

The US also turned down Chavez' offer to send Venezuelan peacekeeping troops.

And while I think the US can probably handle this one itself, I doubt we would turn down foreign donations of money... or firefighters.

Yeah, that's what foreigners can do - donate firefighters!

The US also turned down Chavez' offer to send Venezuelan peacekeeping troops.

And while I think the US can probably handle this one itself, I doubt we would turn down foreign donations of money... or firefighters.

Yeah, that's what foreigners can do - donate firefighters!

Already happening: http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20071023/ca_pr_on_na/wildfires_california_canada

Why is it that Americans not the American government raise millions of dollars everytime there is a natural disaster somewhere in the world. Why is it that the people of European nations aren't as giving as the Americans? I really don't expect people from third world nations to donate what they don't really have...

When the Tsunami hit in 2004, I raised over 2,000 myself to help out the displaced people. I know of people who raised or just donated more. I was barely making ends meet but I could come up with that much. I don't understand why others can't.
The International community doesn't offer assistance? How about hurricane Katrina:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/dis_hur_kat_int_aid_res-hurricane-katrina-international-aid-response

Even Cuba, Venezuela, and China offered assistance.

France offered assistance and was initially turned down. That is politics for ya?

The US also turned down Chavez' offer to send Venezuelan peacekeeping troops.



Do you have a link for that?!

'Hi. I live in the San Bernardino Valley. I need money.'
Strange, doesn't quite fit...

LOL, maybe we need to set up a NSG fund for you.

Why is it that Americans not the American government raise millions of dollars everytime there is a natural disaster somewhere in the world. Why is it that the people of European nations aren't as giving as the Americans? I really don't expect people from third world nations to donate what they don't really have...

When the Tsunami hit in 2004, I raised over 2,000 myself to help out the displaced people. I know of people who raised or just donated more. I was barely making ends meet but I could come up with that much. I don't understand why others can't.

I award you the "Douche Post Of The Week."

Congratulations!!!

I award you the "Douche Post Of The Week."

Congratulations!!!

I wonder how vinegar does against fires? Maybe this award can be shipped to Cali?

Then there is the:

Disasters Statistics (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/dis_cen_eme_res_fun_con_ple-emergency-response-fund-contributors-pledged)> Central Emergency Response Fund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Emergency_Response_Fund)> Contributors > Pledged (most recent) by country

Then there is the:

Disasters Statistics (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/dis_cen_eme_res_fun_con_ple-emergency-response-fund-contributors-pledged)> Central Emergency Response Fund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Emergency_Response_Fund)> Contributors > Pledged (most recent) by country

OK, so this is a graph for one fund out of how many? Would you like to better clarify the position you are taking here?

More?

Fire Response - Southern California (http://www.directrelief.org/EmergencyResponse/2007/FiresSouthernCalifornia/FiresSouthernCalifornia.aspx)

Here: The various national Red Cross organizations locations of rebuilding efforts in Aceh after the tsunami. Red Cross organizations are funded by appeals to avoid political complications.

http://www.ifrc.org/what/disasters/response/tsunamis/images/factsheet/n24/acehmapb.jpg

Gee, a whole lot of "not America" in there.....

OK, so this is a graph for one fund out of how many? Would you like to better clarify the position you are taking here?
The OP was whining about the International community not offering aid to the richest country in the world. I am disputing his claims.

Here: The various national Red Cross organizations locations of rebuilding efforts in Aceh after the tsunami. Red Cross organizations are funded by appeals to avoid political complications.

http://www.ifrc.org/what/disasters/response/tsunamis/images/factsheet/n24/acehmapb.jpg

Gee, a whole lot of "not America" in there.....

Borrowed from Canuck's nice little charts and graphs web page.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/dis_fun_com_to_aid-disasters-funds-commited-tsunami-aid

These are just funds not included is military aid.

The OP was whining about the International community not offering aid to the richest country in the world. I am disputing his claims.

Alright but the web page didn't specify what the graph was for that is why I was trying to figure out what exactly it represented.

Borrowed from Canuck's nice little charts and graphs web page.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/dis_fun_com_to_aid-disasters-funds-commited-tsunami-aid

These are just funds not included is military aid.
Nice twist?

Try this:

Disasters Statistics > Funds commited to Tsunami aid (per capita) (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/dis_fun_com_to_aid_percap-commited-tsunami-aid-per-capita) (most recent) by country

US = # 19 :eek:

/end pissing match :)

Now, this topic just plain irks me. I live in San Diego county; my home was in one of the areas evacuated early Monday morning as the Witch Creek fire got out of control near Ramona. The flames burned within about two hundred feet of my house; we were just able to return late this afternoon and there are areas just down the street where people still cannot come home (and just across the street where people will never be abole to return). I believe I can say that I have more first-hand experience with this situation than the OP.

And I can tell you that the international response, even within the first few hours of the fires was far more than we had any right to expect. I refer, of course, to the Mexican firefighters (http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/10/25/news/sandiego/12_56_5510_24_07.txt) who were fighting the fires in Escondido in Santa Ana conditions, which is extremely dangerous, while other wildfires were tearing through Mexico proper. True, many of them were later withdrawn to help in their own country, but I still think the OP is damn ignorant to not know of the efforts and sacrifices foreign nationals were making on the front lines of this disaster and damn foolish to automatically asume that, just because he couldn't be bothered to read about them, they didn't exist.

My apologies if this post comes across as bit more angry than I probably intend it; it's just that those Mexican firefighters, along with the thousands from San Diego county and around the state, may have made the difference between me having a bed to sleep in and me being homeless. I have nothing but respect for their humanitarianism and, even if they only stunted the growth of the fire by two hundred feet, then they made all the difference in the world to at least one family. I salute them wholeheartedly, just as I salute the deployment of Canadian air resources more recently.

Now, this topic just plain irks me. I live in San Diego county; my home was in one of the areas evacuated early Monday morning as the Witch Creek fire got out of control near Ramona. The flames burned within about two hundred feet of my house; we were just able to return late this afternoon and there are areas just down the street where people still cannot come home (and just across the street where people will never be abole to return). I believe I can say that I have more first-hand experience with this situation than the OP.

And I can tell you that the international response, even within the first few hours of the fires was far more than we had any right to expect. I refer, of course, to the Mexican firefighters (http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/10/25/news/sandiego/12_56_5510_24_07.txt) who were fighting the fires in Escondido in Santa Ana conditions, which is extremely dangerous, while other wildfires were tearing through Mexico proper. True, many of them were later withdrawn to help in their own country, but I still think the OP is damn ignorant to not know of the efforts and sacrifices foreign nationals were making on the front lines of this disaster and damn foolish to automatically asume that, just because he couldn't be bothered to read about them, they didn't exist.

My apologies if this post comes across as bit more angry than I probably intend it; it's just that those Mexican firefighters, along with the thousands from San Diego county and around the state, may have made the difference between me having a bed to sleep in and me being homeless. I have nothing but respect for their humanitarianism and, even if they only stunted the growth of the fire by two hundred feet, then they made all the difference in the world to at least one family. I salute them wholeheartedly, just as I salute the deployment of Canadian air resources more recently.
Best wishes and stay safe!! :)

Nice twist?

Try this:

Disasters Statistics > Funds commited to Tsunami aid (per capita) (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/dis_fun_com_to_aid_percap-commited-tsunami-aid-per-capita) (most recent) by country

US = # 19 :eek:

Lol, I'm not done pissing here.....

Still doesn't mask the fact that the US donated the most. If I gave 1% of a million to you and another person gave 4% of $100,000 who gave more? See how percentages are not a good way to make a point?

Lol, I'm not done pissing here.....

Still doesn't mask the fact that the US donated the most. If I gave 1% of a million to you and another person gave 4% of $100,000 who gave more? See how percentages are not a good way to make a point?


Yes. A large group each giving a penny may donate more in total than a smaller group each giving a dollar. And all the penny-givers can congratulate themselves on how much more they raised out of the goodness of their tight-fisted little pockets.

So, congrats. Well done. The collective donation certainly is indicitive of the immensity of the individual sacrifices.

Go have youself a cookie, and congratulate yourself again if a crumb happens to drop which might help feed a roach. Another big moment in charitability!

Yes. A large group each giving a penny may donate more in total than a smaller group each giving a dollar. And all the penny-givers can congratulate themselves on how much more they raised out of the goodness of their tight-fisted little pockets.

So, congrats. Well done. The collective donation certainly is indicitive of the immensity of the individual sacrifices.

Go have youself a cookie, and congratulate yourself again if a crumb happens to drop which might help feed a roach. Another big moment in charitability!

You are right those damn Americans are greedy stingy little bastards aren't they. I have learned in life you just cannot win with some people. ;) So usually let them keep walking and talking with themselves. :D

I salute them wholeheartedly, just as I salute the deployment of Canadian air resources more recently.


The additional aerial resources that have been made available to support the firefighting efforts are:

* 1 Martin Mars 7,000 gallon water dropping aircraft from Canada

( http://gov.ca.gov/press-release/7823/ )

Apparently, the aircraft is operated by Coulson Flying Tankers (http://www.martinmars.com/index.htm) of British Columbia.

I suggest we address our aid payments and relief packages to Insurance Corp. Pty. Ltd.

They're the ones who will be needing them.

I suggest we address our aid payments and relief packages to Insurance Corp. Pty. Ltd.

They're the ones who will be needing them.

:D

Yeah I heard about the fires, but I didn't hear about international assitance.

All right, let me make something perfectly clear:

I did not choose to live in California. My mom did.

Also, I am so sick and tired of people assuming that because someone lives in California, they are rich.

California is not a rich state. I don't think any state in the US is. All this stereotyping and bashing of America/California, etc. is pissing me off.

(as a random sidenote, I'd like to kill whoever came up with the phrase, "ignorance is bliss")

It was Castro's "medical" teams, who are 50% about spreading the ideas of socialism and how great Socialized medicine is.

"Oh noes!!! If dem dere Socialist doctors try to help us out, it might work!!!" :eek

California is not a rich state.

Um, yes it is. If it became a independent country tomorrow, it would have the 8th largest economy in the world.

Um, yes it is. If it became a independent country tomorrow, it would have the 8th largest economy in the world.

Tnat is true, however in California there are some vast economic disparities. You can see some very wealthy "nuevo riche" people in living Orange County while some sections of Los Angeles County have some of the poorest places in the Western world.

Nice twist?

Try this:

Disasters Statistics > Funds committed to Tsunami aid (per capita) (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/dis_fun_com_to_aid_percap-commited-tsunami-aid-per-capita) (most recent) by country

US = # 19 :eek:

What's the basis of this graph? Is it purely researched on Government Granted Aid? As in directly from the American Taxpayer via the Government? If so it's still a biased poll. Many private cooperations and religious sects gave a huge amount of money!

Tnat is true, however in California there are some vast economic disparities. You can see some very wealthy "nuevo riche" people in living Orange County while some sections of Los Angeles County have some of the poorest places in the Western world.

For which, obviously, there is no excuse. Kind of a kick-in-the-head, really.

The US as a whole is the same - the whole nation has a GINI index that makes it directly comparable to sub-Saharan states.

Why are we bitching about the tight fists of Europeans, when the richest people in the world are leaving a street away poverty on a daily basis?

Why is it that Americans not the American government raise millions of dollars everytime there is a natural disaster somewhere in the world. Why is it that the people of European nations aren't as giving as the Americans? I really don't expect people from third world nations to donate what they don't really have...

When the Tsunami hit in 2004, I raised over 2,000 myself to help out the displaced people. I know of people who raised or just donated more. I was barely making ends meet but I could come up with that much. I don't understand why others can't.Probably because Bush turned down a lot of support during Katrina when it was offered. Another reason is that the world is seeing that California has its shit together and does not really need the support. California has proven once again that they are the masters at disasters nobody does disasters better than California.

What's the basis of this graph? Is it purely researched on Government Granted Aid? As in directly from the American Taxpayer via the Government? If so it's still a biased poll. Many private cooperations and religious sects gave a huge amount of money!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/dis_tsu_fun_ple_by_ngo_and_pub_percap-pledged-ngos-public-per-capita




Disasters Statistics > Tsunami > Funds pledged by NGOs and public (per capita) (most recent) by country
VIEW DATA: Totals Per capita Per $ GDP
Definition Source Printable version
Bar Graph Map Correlations

Showing latest available data.
Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)
#1 Norway: $19.55 per person
#2 Switzerland: $18.04 per person
#3 Ireland: $13.01 per person
#4 Netherlands: $8.90 per person
#5 Sweden: $8.02 per person
#6 Hong Kong: $7.43 per person
#7 Australia: $7.19 per person
#8 Denmark: $6.63 per person
#9 Belgium: $4.80 per person
#10 Germany: $4.76 per person
#11 Finland: $4.38 per person
#12 Canada: $4.37 per person
#13 Austria: $3.19 per person
#14 United Kingdom: $3.09 per person
#15 Taiwan: $2.62 per person
#16 Saudi Arabia: $2.55 per person
#17 Greece: $2.32 per person
#18 United States: $2.21 per person
#19 New Zealand: $2.05 per person
#20 Italy: $0.99 per person
#21 Czech Republic: $0.98 per person
#22 Portugal: $0.26 per person
#23 Poland: $0.03 per person
#24 China: $0.01 per person


Just to help

Tnat is true, however in California there are some vast economic disparities. You can see some very wealthy "nuevo riche" people in living Orange County while some sections of Los Angeles County have some of the poorest places in the Western world.

In fact, here is a Wikipedia article summarizing some US Census Bureau data from 2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_locations_by_per_capita_income). The counties affected by the current wildfires rank by income thusly:

Orange County
State Ranking: 11
National Ranking: 119
Per Capita Income: $25,826
Median Household Income: $58,820

San Diego County
State Ranking: 18
National Ranking: 253
Per Capita Income: $22,926
Median Household Income: $47,067

Los Angeles County
State Ranking: 26
National Ranking: 481
Per Capita Income: $20,683
Median Household Income: $42,189

Riverside County
State Ranking: 33
National Ranking: 866
Per Capita Income: $18,689
Median Household Income: $42,887

San Bernardino County
State Ranking: 44
National Ranking: 1607
Per Capita Income: $16,856
Median Household Income: $42,066

"The OC" stereotype of palm trees and mansions is true, for a very small number of people in the concentrated urban populations near the coast. Very many more are middle class working stiffs. And, moving inland to the rural desert (as in Riverside and San Bernardino Counties) and central valley areas, there are also lots of poor and migrant labor, especially agricultural. It is my opinion that those who like to go on about how California is a "rich" state have never seen any of California beyond 10 miles inland from the coast.

One should also note that the stereotype of California being a "Democratic" state follows a similar geographic pattern. One need only look at a county-by-county breakdown of the 2000 and 2004 Presidential elections to find that, outside of the Birkenstock and ponytail urban population concentrations nearest the coast, California is still very much a cowboy hat and rodeo state (http://vote2004.sos.ca.gov/Returns/pres/mapComp.htm).

. Why is it that the people of European nations aren't as giving as the Americans?

Per capita/GDP Euros give more. You lot are so rich you give less each and it still adds up to more. Yez are 16th on the list.

Per capita/GDP Euros give more. You lot are so rich you give less each and it still adds up to more. Yez are 16th on the list.

I'm actually quite proud of the Irish position.

Probably because Bush turned down a lot of support during Katrina when it was offered. Another reason is that the world is seeing that California has its shit together and does not really need the support. California has proven once again that they are the masters at disasters nobody does disasters better than California.

Well, they certainly get enough practice at cleaning up disasters. Doesn't California catch fire annually?

Well, they certainly get enough practice at cleaning up disasters.

Fire, drought, earthquakes (http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/recenteqs/), flooding and mudslides, El Nino (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Nino#El_Ni.C3.B1o_and_La_Ni.C3.B1a), occasional periods of open ethnic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoot_Suit_Riots) warfare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_riots_of_1992), and political upset (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_recall) that ends rather poorly (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/T800-in-flames.JPG).

Lol, I'm not done pissing here.....

Still doesn't mask the fact that the US donated the most. If I gave 1% of a million to you and another person gave 4% of $100,000 who gave more? See how percentages are not a good way to make a point?

By that logic the rest of the world is much more generous than the US as they contributed more on aggregate.

I can't believe I used the word logic actually, you've clearly used nothing of the sort.

"The OC" stereotype of palm trees and mansions is true, for a very small number of people in the concentrated urban populations near the coast. Very many more are middle class working stiffs. And, moving inland to the rural desert (as in Riverside and San Bernardino Counties) and central valley areas, there are also lots of poor and migrant labor, especially agricultural. It is my opinion that those who like to go on about how California is a "rich" state have never seen any of California beyond 10 miles inland from the coast.


None of this explains why california needs an international relief effort however. California has more than the required financial wherewithal to handle this easily.

None of this explains why california needs an international relief effort however.


I didn't intend to argue otherwise, but OK.

I'm actually quite proud of the Irish position.


Indeed, though they say that private donations have dropped as the place has become more prosperous. Personally I think a targeted tax on every gobshite carrying a cappuchino/latte in their paw into work would greatly boost the government Foriegn aid budget. Any complaining can be given a note stating "We knew ye when ye hadn't an arse in yer fuckin trousers" as an explanation.

Indeed, though they say that private donations have dropped as the place has become more prosperous. Personally I think a targeted tax on every gobshite carrying a cappuchino/latte in their paw into work would greatly boost the government Foriegn aid budget. Any complaining can be given a note stating "We knew ye when ye hadn't an arse in yer fuckin trousers" as an explanation.

Because we all know how responsible the government is with money...plus, I'd rather give money on my own terms than be forced to do so. We have zero responsibility to give anything to anyone for any reason, and I'd really prefer if the government refrained from forcing us to do so as much as possible.

Why is it that Americans not the American government raise millions of dollars everytime there is a natural disaster somewhere in the world. Why is it that the people of European nations aren't as giving as the Americans? I really don't expect people from third world nations to donate what they don't really have...

When the Tsunami hit in 2004, I raised over 2,000 myself to help out the displaced people. I know of people who raised or just donated more. I was barely making ends meet but I could come up with that much. I don't understand why others can't.
Where (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/27/wfires127.xml) was (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3930507.stm) America (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/europe/2195549.stm)?

Where (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/27/wfires127.xml) was (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3930507.stm) America (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/europe/2195549.stm)?

Where was most of Europe? Hell, they're a lot closer than we are and it looks like most of them didn't do anything.

I'm actually quite proud of the Irish position.

I tried the Irish position and the girl threw the potato at my head.