NationStates Jolt Archive

http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/23-10-2007/99346-island_trash-0

Article
Island of trash larger than Texas floats in the Pacific Ocean
Front page / World / Americas
23.10.2007 Source:


Pages: 1

An enormous island of trash twice the size of Texas is floating in the Pacific Ocean somewhere between San Francisco and Hawaii.

The California Coastal Commission in San Francisco said the so-called Great Pacific Garbage Patch, has been growing a brisk rate since the 1950s.

The enormous stew of trash - which consists of 80 percent plastics and weighs some 3.5 million tons, say oceanographers - floats where few people ever travel, in a no-man's land between San Francisco and Hawaii.

Marcus Eriksen, director of research and education at the Algalita Marine Research Foundation in Long Beach, said his group has been monitoring the Garbage Patch for 10 years.

"With the winds blowing in and the currents in the gyre going circular, it's the perfect environment for trapping," Eriksen said. "There's nothing we can do about it now, except do no more harm."

The patch has been growing, along with ocean debris worldwide, tenfold every decade since the 1950s, said Chris Parry, public education program manager with the California Coastal Commission in San Francisco.

Ocean current patterns may keep the flotsam stashed in a part of the world few will ever see, but the majority of its content is generated onshore, according to a report from Greenpeace last year titled "Plastic Debris in the World's Oceans."

The report found that 80 percent of the oceans' litter originated on land. While ships drop the occasional load of shoes or hockey gloves into the waters (sometimes on purpose and illegally), the vast majority of sea garbage begins its journey as onshore trash.

That's what makes a potentially toxic swamp like the Garbage Patch entirely preventable, Parry said.

"At this point, cleaning it up isn't an option," Parry said. "It's just going to get bigger as our reliance on plastics continues. ... The long-term solution is to stop producing as much plastic products at home and change our consumption habits."

Parry said using canvas bags to cart groceries instead of using plastic bags is a good first step; buying foods that aren't wrapped in plastics is another.

The Great Pacific Garbage Patch is particularly dangerous for birds and marine life, said Warner Chabot, vice president of the Ocean Conservancy, an environmental group.

Sea turtles mistake clear plastic bags for jellyfish. Birds swoop down and swallow indigestible shards of plastic. The petroleum-based plastics take decades to break down, and as long as they float on the ocean's surface, they can appear as feeding grounds.

"These animals die because the plastic eventually fills their stomachs," Chabot said. "It doesn't pass, and they literally starve to death."

The Greenpeace report found that at least 267 marine species had suffered from some kind of ingestion or entanglement with marine debris.

So, it turns out that we've created a new continent of floating plastic in the Pacific Ocean...

Cool. Who's going to claim it? NSG? Bush? Hitler-look-alikes in a landfill annexing spree?

I blame Fiji.

So why can't they clean it up? Sure, it will take a while, but if it's all in one place it should be doable.

Is that mound of trash supposed to be a picture of it? Why don't I ever see pictures of it, or satellite images? I'm not doubting its existence, I'm just wondering why I never see it.

So why can't they clean it up? Sure, it will take a while, but if it's all in one place it should be doable.

my thoughts exactly, they see it measure it but don't do anything about it?

Is that mound of trash supposed to be a picture of it? Why don't I ever see pictures of it, or satellite images? I'm not doubting its existence, I'm just wondering why I never see it.

If it's twice the size of Texas, it ought to stick out like a sore thumb on Google Earth, should it not?

So why can't they clean it up? Sure, it will take a while, but if it's all in one place it should be doable.
And dump it where? Lots of cities, states, and nations are already dumping trash in the "indestructible ocean". There's nobody who wants that pile transported to their land, where it will sit and fail to biodegrade for centuries. Besides, where do you dump a mass of trash twice the size of Texas (area: 261,797 sq mi)?
Is that mound of trash supposed to be a picture of it? Why don't I ever see pictures of it, or satellite images? I'm not doubting its existence, I'm just wondering why I never see it.
I googled it and found no pics. I'm imagining a plastic variant of an iceberg, where the bulk is under water; or perhaps a thin layer of surface, coated with kelp and relatively indistinguishable from most seawater, apart from small bits of color.

Is that mound of trash supposed to be a picture of it? Why don't I ever see pictures of it, or satellite images? I'm not doubting its existence, I'm just wondering why I never see it.

i'd guess that it wouldn't be solid enough to easily make out, especially with google earth level detail for the area. a soup rather than an iceberg.

Besides, where do you dump a mass of trash twice the size of Texas (area: 261,797 sq mi)?

texas.

twice.

And dump it where? Lots of cities, states, and nations are already dumping trash in the "indestructible ocean". There's nobody who wants that pile transported to their land, where it will sit and fail to biodegrade for centuries. Besides, where do you dump a mass of trash twice the size of Texas (area: 261,797 sq mi)?

start processing it, recycle that which can be recycled.

Twice the fucking size of Texas? Hell, we might as well colonize it.

Wow, it sounds just like The Planet of Junk in the transformers movie, but instead of a planet just twice texas :D

This island is twice the size of Texas? That's 523,594 square miles (135,610,223 hectares, 1,356,102 square kilometers, etc.) If this "island" were a perfect square, that means be 724 miles (1,165 km) on each side.

With Google Maps, I found the area between Hawaii, the West Coast, and Alaska is 1 616 313.992 562 square miles. This means that the island of plastic would take up more than thirty percent of the ocean. That seems...an exaggeration, to say the least.
The area in question is here. It won't show the blue area I covered, but I don't think you need an account with Google, if you want to see for yourself.
http://maps.google.com/maps/mm?ie=UTF8&hl=en&ll=35.46067,-142.03125&spn=40.137258,71.015625&z=4&om=1

Dibs.

Wow, it sounds just like The Planet of Junk in the transformers movie, but instead of a planet just twice texas :D

It's Lex Luthor's third and shittiest crazy real estate scheme for the next Superman movie...

This island is twice the size of Texas? That's 523,594 square miles (135,610,223 hectares, 1,356,102 square kilometers, etc.) If this "island" were a perfect square, that means be 724 miles (1,165 km) on each side.

With Google Maps, I found the area between Hawaii, the West Coast, and Alaska is 1 616 313.992 562 square miles. This means that the island of plastic would take up more than thirty percent of the ocean. That seems...an exaggeration, to say the least.
The area in question is here. It won't show the blue area I covered, but I don't think you need an account with Google, if you want to see for yourself.
http://maps.google.com/maps/mm?ie=UTF8&hl=en&ll=35.46067,-142.03125&spn=40.137258,71.015625&z=4&om=1


Calculations include volume? Most likely the plastic continent is mostly underwater.

Calculations include volume? Most likely the plastic continent is mostly underwater.

Good point, I didn't put that in the calculations. Still, it seems awkward to refer to something "twice the size of Texas" and be talking about volume. Besides, the deepest part of the ocean, the Mariana Trench, is only about seven miles down, which would mean the cube (now a rectangular prism) is still 273 miles on each side. And that's assuming the trench goes on for 273 miles north and east, and plastic does not float. I'm pretty sure both of those are not true.

Pravda is Russia's version of Fox News, only even LESS accurate and with much more and more obvious spin. At least Fox occasionaly tries to hide the fact that its attempting to stand in for Bush's prostate-deprived penis.

[QUOTE=Frisbeeteria;13159764]And dump it where? Lots of cities, states, and nations are already dumping trash in the "indestructible ocean". There's nobody who wants that pile transported to their land, where it will sit and fail to biodegrade for centuries. Besides, where do you dump a mass of trash twice the size of Texas (area: 261,797 sq mi)?

A land fill. Duh

A land fill. Duh

Okay. Let me know when you find one twice the size of texas.

Okay. Let me know when you find one twice the size of texas.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13159776&postcount=9

start processing it, recycle that which can be recycled.

then put the rest in a land fill

Pravda is Russia's version of Fox News, only even LESS accurate and with much more and more obvious spin. At least Fox occasionaly tries to hide the fact that its attempting to stand in for Bush's prostate-deprived penis.

A) Try googling "Great Pacific Garbage Patch". There are more sources than Pravda.

B) How about starting your NS posting career with something a bit less trollish, like an actual opinion. Your ability to use scatological metaphors is not necessarily a desirable trait here.

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Game Moderator
The One-Stop Rules Shop

I wonder how much recoverable oil is in that deposit?

We haven't had a good old fashioned atmospheric nuclear test in a long time, let's try out some new designs on this guy.

Probably not a lot, according to the wiki, a lot of the plastic in the patch is starting to photodegrade to smaller and smaller particles and spreading out over a larger area.

This means that the island of plastic would take up more than thirty percent of the ocean. That seems...an exaggeration, to say the least.
You appear to be thinking of an island like those in Hawaii, with greenery, peaks, valleys, things you can see from space. I thinking of a floating layer of semi-transparent crap, with a thickness somewhere between a six-pack holder and (max) discarded plastic 55 gallon barrels, where the 'population' idly bumps against each other as lazy waves roll past. We ain't talkin' solids here.

Most of it would likely be pop bottle size. Go to the beach, toss in a pop bottle, let it wash out to 50 feet offshore, and pick it out of the surf with your eyes. Now, do the same with a six-pack skin. Can you see it, even knowing where it is? I usually can't until it brushes against by body. Now, find it from 100 miles up. Yeah, thought so.


A land fill. Duh
You've only been here a few days, and it would appear that your sole purpose is to be mildly offensive and spammy. Either engage your brain and add to the conversation, or take a hike. Eventually such behavior tends to get you banned from the site.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13159776&postcount=9

Still leaves room for a third, fourth, fifth, and sixth layer for good measure!

Two birds with one stone.

You appear to be thinking of an island like those in Hawaii, with greenery, peaks, valleys, things you can see from space. I thinking of a floating layer of semi-transparent crap, with a thickness somewhere between a six-pack holder and (max) discarded plastic 55 gallon barrels, where the 'population' idly bumps against each other as lazy waves roll past. We ain't talkin' solids here.
In fact, we are. If it is all collected together and "double the size of Texas," it would be a solid surface for all points and purposes, and very visible.

Spread out across 30 percent of the ocean, some one would notice it, but according to the article, it is fairly balled up out of major and minor shipping lanes "between San Francisco and Hawaii" there isn't a really massive area there to talk about considering a major shipping lane takes up half of it.

We haven't had a good old fashioned atmospheric nuclear test in a long time, let's try out some new designs on this guy.

No! I will not stand while the newly formed Continent of Seangolia is destroyed. That's right, I claim it.

Now selling landfill space, by the way.

You appear to be thinking of an island like those in Hawaii, with greenery, peaks, valleys, things you can see from space. I thinking of a floating layer of semi-transparent crap, with a thickness somewhere between a six-pack holder and (max) discarded plastic 55 gallon barrels, where the 'population' idly bumps against each other as lazy waves roll past. We ain't talkin' solids here.
I wasn't thinking of something like Hawaii, but I was thinking of a single mass because of how the article describes it. If you toss some flour on the water, it's not solid, but there's a floating skim which is mostly together, with some stray particles around it. That's what I was imagining.

In fact, we are. If it is all collected together and "double the size of Texas," it would be a solid surface for all points and purposes, and very visible.I'm guessing you've never seen trash floating in the water. It doesn't "collect together", it just floats around other pieces of trash.

Here's a really good example of the way Google Maps displays ocean squares (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=52.117307,4.2801715&z=17&hl=en&t=h). Zoom in. Compare the sea with the land. Look how much detail they have 100' on shore, and how little there is once you get to the end of the pier. Now go out where the water is deep, 2-3 miles offshore. Can you even see the big ships that sail out of Rotterdam from there? I could see several at a time from the beach last month. Where are they in Google Maps?

Fact is, Google doesn't waste resources on closer maps of big-ass ocean. It's big. It's blue. Even with trash floating in it, it's blue. In order to see the satellite resolution between The Hague, NL, and London, England, I had to zoom out until the entire English Channel was visible. You expect to see garbage at that resolution? C'mon, a little logic here.

Supposedly there's an oceanic current that's been collecting marine debris in Pacific and piling it into the area in question for centuries. It's only been recently that human garbage has been added onto the list of things that's been collected by this current.

Supposedly there's an oceanic current that's been collecting marine debris in Pacific and piling it into the area in question for centuries. It's only been recently that human garbage has been added onto the list of things that's been collected by this current.
According to this article (http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/master.html?http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/1103/1103_feature.html), it's the plastics that have been making it worse.

Historically, the kind of drastic accumulation I encountered is a brand-new kind of despoilment. Trash has always been tossed into the seas, but it has been broken down in a fairly short time into carbon dioxide and water by marine microorganisms. Now, however, in the quest for lightweight but durable means of storing goods, we have created a class of products—plastics—that defeat even the most creative and voracious bacteria.

Unlike many discarded materials, most plastics in common use do not biodegrade. Instead they “photodegrade,” a process whereby sunlight breaks them into progressively smaller pieces, all of which are still plastic polymers. In fact, the degradation eventually yields individual molecules of plastic, but these are still too tough for most anything—even such indiscriminate consumers as bacteria—to digest. And for the past fifty years or so, plastics that have made their way into the Pacific Ocean have been fragmenting and accumulating as a kind of swirling sewer in the North Pacific subtropical gyre.

As to why I can't see it or never see pictures:
It seemed unbelievable, but I never found a clear spot. In the week it took to cross the subtropical high, no matter what time of day I looked, plastic debris was floating everywhere: bottles, bottle caps, wrappers, fragments. Months later, after I discussed what I had seen with the oceanographer Curtis Ebbesmeyer, perhaps the world’s leading expert on flotsam, he began referring to the area as the “eastern garbage patch.” But “patch” doesn’t begin to convey the reality. Ebbesmeyer has estimated that the area, nearly covered with floating plastic debris, is roughly the size of Texas.
Disturbing:
There was plenty of larger debris in our path as well, which the crew members retrieved with an inflatable dingy. In the end, we took about a ton of this debris on board. The items included

* a drum of hazardous chemicals;
* an inflated volleyball, half covered in gooseneck barnacles;
* a plastic coat hanger with a swivel hook;
* a cathode-ray tube for a nineteen-inch TV;
* an inflated truck tire mounted on a steel rim;
* numerous plastic, and some glass, fishing floats;
* a gallon bleach bottle that was so brittle it crumbled in our hands; and
* a menacing medusa of tangled net lines and hawsers that we hung from the A-frame of our catamaran and named Polly P, for the polypropylene lines that made up its bulk.

Transported and concentrated by plastic pellets, some of the most toxic pollutants known are being released into the food web. Farmers can grow pesticide-free organic produce, but can nature still produce a pollutant-free organic fish? After what I have seen firsthand in the Pacific, I have my doubts.

A fucking cathode ray tube and a gallon of bleach, as if the chemicals weren't enough.

I wish I lived in the future, so when we fuck up a planet, we can just get a new one.

A fucking cathode ray tube and a gallon of bleach, as if the chemicals weren't enough.

I wish I lived in the future, so when we fuck up a planet, we can just get a new one.

A bleach bottle, not a gallon of bleach.

Fact is, Google doesn't waste resources on closer maps of big-ass ocean. It's big. It's blue.
Yeah, from miles up. But, I would expect to see a hint of something "twice the size of Texas" occupying at least half of the space between San Francisco and Hawaii.

Yeah, from miles up. But, I would expect to see a hint of something "twice the size of Texas" occupying at least half of the space between San Francisco and Hawaii.

Google Maps (and Google Earth) doesn't use much resources on oceans. Like Fris said before me, check out how much more detail shorelines and lakes have, and then go about a mile or so offshore, and the detail is gone completely.

That's why you can't see any hint of the garbage patch. There's no visual detail whatsoever, just a blue placeholder for the ocean images layered over elevation data for the ocean floor.

At least we'll know where the Autons will invade from.

Although I heard on public radio that eventually microscopic life will eventually adapt and learn how to digest plastic. Of course it will take probably a lot longer than most of our lives for that to happen and if it does manage to occur then it just means plastic is no longer the long-lasting material it was designed to be. At that point plastic can be eaten or corroded just like wood or metal.