NationStates Jolt Archive

i have a question that can only be resolved by the internets. what USian states make up the midwest? what sort of distinctions are there between the midwest and the great lakes and the plains states? are there some states that are only partially in the midwest? well?

edit:
we have the winnars!
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2803/nsmweu3.gif

Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Kentucky, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Missouri, Kansas, Michigan.

The midwest is Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, and possibly Ohio and Missouri.

Ohio is definitely part of the Midwest. SW Ohio, anyway.

Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Kentucky, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Missouri, Kansas, Michigan.

As a Midwesterner, that looks right. :cool:

hah! two responses and already there is disagreement over the inclusion of the dakotas, kansas, nebraska, and ohio. this can only be solved by violence. or arguments of some sort, i guess.

As a Midwesterner, that looks right. :cool:

There are those who include Ohio, but frankly it's a little too east coast for my reckoning.

Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Kentucky, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Missouri, Kansas, Michigan.

That sounds about right.

There are those who include Ohio, but frankly it's a little too east coast for my reckoning.

Aye. Too eastern in my book.

There are those who include Ohio, but frankly it's a little too east coast for my reckoning.

interestingly, i would include ohio long before i included the dakotas or kansas. hell, i might even include western new york.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/af/Map_of_USA_showing_regions.png

interestingly, i would include ohio long before i included the dakotas or kansas. hell, i might even include western new york.

Kansas is not the midwest? How do you figure? Its the default midwestern state. 'sides Kansas City is the barbeque capital of the world, any region should be proud to have it!

interestingly, i would include ohio long before i included the dakotas or kansas. hell, i might even include western new york.

Kansas is the stereotypical view of the midwest. It's flat, lots of farmland, and conservative to the point of hilarity.

You know how maps made in New England have that big empty area between the Ohio River and California, labeled "Here There Be Dragons"?

The midwest is in there.

SELECT * FROM States WHERE SPEECH LIKE '%YOU BETCHA%'

Kansas is not the midwest? How do you figure?

cause its all the way over there and has no giant lakes or anything

Its the default midwestern state.

actually, i kinda think of michigan or wisconsin as filling that role

Grblnstench;13158987']SELECT * FROM States WHERE SPEECH LIKE '%YOU BETCHA%'

:D

i have a question that can only be resolved by the internets. what USian states make up the midwest? what sort of distinctions are there between the midwest and the great lakes and the plains states? are there some states that are only partially in the midwest? well?

(i'd post a poll, but there are too many states that would need including and i don't know how to group them without prejudging the results - ideas?)

I highly dislike the term "Midwest" as it's very vague and imprecise. Lumping the relatively liberal and urban states of the Great Lakes in with the rural, conservative plains states doesn't seem right.

Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Kentucky, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Missouri, Kansas, Michigan.

Michigan is so awesome we get mentioned twice.

cause its all the way over there and has no giant lakes or anything



actually, i kinda think of michigan or wisconsin as filling that role

You're confusing midwest with great lakes states.

Kansas is the stereotypical view of the midwest. It's flat, lots of farmland, and conservative to the point of hilarity.

which is precisely why i think of it as not the midwest. or maybe part of the lesser midwest.

Michigan is so awesome we get mentioned twice.

or it could be because this place is physically two places

Kansas is definetly part of the midwest, shoot, nebraska is just right north of them so if we're midwest (nebraska DEFINETLY is) then kansas is.. Lol.

You're confusing midwest with great lakes states.

and you see the relation between them as...?

You're confusing midwest with great lakes states.

Well, most of the great lakes states are part of the midwest (I'm a Michigander myself, before I moved out to Montana). But as a whole, the Great Lakes states are much more heavily industrialized then the rest of the midwest.

The great lakes states are their own region. I've never heard of them considered midwestern.

Well, most of the great lakes states are part of the midwest (I'm a Michigander myself, before I moved out to Montana). But as a whole, the Great Lakes states are much more heavily industrialized then the rest of the midwest.

and that is what makes the midwest so great...no disgusting factories. Miles and miles of some of the best farmland in the world!

I highly dislike the term "Midwest" as it's very vague and imprecise. Lumping the relatively liberal and urban states of the Great Lakes in with the rural, conservative plains states doesn't seem right.



Michigan is so awesome we get mentioned twice.

Only 'cause you twits have your state broken in half. Seriously, give up the upper peninsula.

or it could be because this place is physically two places

Not just physically. The UP is such an odd, interesting, confused place.

Only 'cause you twits have your state broken in half. Seriously, give up the upper peninsula.

Only if we get Toledo back.

and you see the relation between them as...?

Great lakes states are different, there's some overlap, but they're different.

Great lakes states are New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota. Only thing they have in common is that they've got water access.

Great lakes states are different, there's some overlap, but they're different.

Great lakes states are New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota. Only thing they have in common is that they've got water access.

It's kinda like the plains states, Kansas is in the midwest but it's also a plains state.....Oklahoma is in the south but it's a plains state.

Well, the Dakotas, Eastern Montana, Eastern Wyoming, Eastern Colorado, Western Kansas, Oklahoma and parts of Texas and New Mexico (and parts of central Canada) are the Great Plains (http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/5/5f/350px-Map_of_Great_Plains.svg.png) States (defined by precipitation and vegetation zone boundaries).

I always learned that the Great Plains were not part of "the Midwest" but that "the Midwest" is what is to the immediate East of the Great Plains (and not further South than Missouri), i.e. Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Ohio (and, if you really want, the Eastern parts of the Eastern Great Plains states...).

Well, the Dakotas, Eastern Montana, Eastern Wyoming, Eastern Colorado, Western Kansas, Oklahoma and parts of Texas and New Mexico (and parts of central Canada) are the Great Plains (http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/5/5f/350px-Map_of_Great_Plains.svg.png) States (defined by precipitation and vegetation zone boundaries).

I always learned that the Great Plains were not part of "the Midwest" but that "the Midwest" is what is to the immediate East of the Great Plains (and not further South than Missouri), i.e. Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Ohio (and, if you really want, the Eastern parts of the Eastern Great Plains states...).

Conclusion: it's a mess.

Wow, people really do argue about anything in these forums. I can't wait for a heated debate to arise from this issue. Something along the lines of, "If Kansas were in the Midwest, then it'd be the ass of the region."

I always learned that the Great Plains were not part of "the Midwest" but that "the Midwest" is what is to the immediate East of the Great Plains (and not further South than Missouri), i.e. Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Ohio (and, if you really want, the Eastern parts of the Eastern Great Plains states...).Same here. The Great Plains and the Midwest are two different regions, as far as I've learned.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/af/Map_of_USA_showing_regions.png

Hmmm... I don't know about that map. Maryland, West Virginia, Oklahoma and Delaware as part of the South? Plus, parts of Texas fit into the South (the Eastern parts), the Great Plains States (the North) and the West (the Western parts).

If I were to break the US by regions, I'd do this:

West Coast: Alaska, Hawaii, Washington, Oregon, California

Southwest: Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Western Texas, Utah

Great Plains: Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Oklahoma, Northern Texas

Midwest: The Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, Missouri, Downstate Illinois, Indiana

Great Lakes States: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Chicago, Michigan, Ohio, Upstate New York

Gulf Coast South: Coastal Texas, Louisiana, Southern Mississippi, Coastal Alabama, Florida

Deep South: Arkansas, inland Mississippi, inland Alabama, Western Georgia

Tidewater: Georgia coast, the Carolinas, Virginia

Appalachia: Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia

Mid-Atlantic: Maryland, District of Columbia, Delaware, New Jersey, Southern Pennsylvania, New York City and suburbs

New England: Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine

Problem is, lines on a map are arbitrary. Look at Pennsylvania, for example- Pittsburgh is a pretty midwestern City, Phillie is very East Coast, and the middle of the state is farm country, with more in common with, say, Kansas or Iowa, then with the other parts.

The great lakes states are their own region. I've never heard of them considered midwestern.

Uh... I'm from Minnesota, and I hear it referred to as the "Midwest" all the freakin' time. Infact, I have never actually heard anyone really refer to us as being in a "great lakes region".

And to think that after all this time, New England is still the only region in this country that can actually claim all of its territories without a problem.

The map below makes more sense than most that I have seen.

http://hpb.efficiencyvermont.com/images/census-map.gif

(i'd post a poll, but there are too many states that would need including and i don't know how to group them without prejudging the results - ideas?)

poll up. no complaining.

The map below makes more sense than most that I have seen.

http://hpb.efficiencyvermont.com/images/census-map.gif

New England FTW.

Though that's not to say I dislike Cheeseland. I love Cheeseland.

The map below makes more sense than most that I have seen.

http://hpb.efficiencyvermont.com/images/census-map.gif

i think the proper midwest should get minnesota. no reason to go lumping them in with the vast empty, just because they're on the other side of the river. they've got trees and everything.

Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Kentucky, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Missouri, Kansas, Michigan.

That looks about right, though I question the inclusion of Indiana, Missouri and Kentucky. Then again, I grew up in North Dakota.

Basically any flat state with a lot of farms.

That looks about right, though I question the inclusion of Indiana, Missouri and Kentucky. Then again, I grew up in North Dakota.

I can see questioning Missouri (Kentucky's definitely not a part of the Midwest --- it's too Appalachian), but Indiana? Indiana is the Midwest.

Wow, people really do argue about anything in these forums.

nah, only things we disagree about. so not anything, just most anything.

No way is Missouri a Midwestern state...

Did you know New York wasn't part of New England?

The Midwest isn't a physical location. It's a place inside our hearts.

The Midwest isn't a physical location. It's a place inside our hearts.

Like, Camp Anawanna?

The Midwest isn't a physical location. It's a place inside our hearts.

Haha.

The Midwest isn't a physical location. It's a place inside our hearts.

the midwest touched me...there

Any state that doesn't touch an ocean.

Any state that doesn't touch an ocean.

arizona? vermont?

arizona? vermont?

Nevada is the heart and soul of the Midwest.

i have a question that can only be resolved by the internets. what USian states make up the midwest? what sort of distinctions are there between the midwest and the great lakes and the plains states? are there some states that are only partially in the midwest? well?

(i'd post a poll, but there are too many states that would need including and i don't know how to group them without prejudging the results - ideas?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwest

I've never liked that definition. I can't agree with putting the heavily industrialized, liberal, urban states of the Rustbelt in with the agrarian, conservative, rural states of the Plains.

Did you know New York wasn't part of New England?

It's a Mid-Atlantic state.

I've never liked that definition. I can't agree with putting the heavily industrialized, liberal, urban states of the Rustbelt in with the agrarian, conservative, rural states of the Plains.

You may not like it, but that's what the census bureau says.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwest

quoth the wiki, "regional definitions vary from source to source." which is why i have turned to the higher authority of NSG

You may not like it, but that's what the census bureau says.

and what they say matters because...?

Nevada is the heart and soul of the Midwest.

well yeah, nobody disputes that.

i have a question that can only be resolved by the internets. what USian states make up the midwest? what sort of distinctions are there between the midwest and the great lakes and the plains states? are there some states that are only partially in the midwest? well?

(i'd post a poll, but there are too many states that would need including and i don't know how to group them without prejudging the results - ideas?)

The geographic center of the contiguous states is here (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=lebanon,+kansas&ie=UTF8&ll=39.842286,-98.525391&spn=38.003726,71.015625&z=4&iwloc=addr&om=1).
I don't know if that helps any, but it seemed interesting.

Ok, then how about an organization WITHIN the Midwest?

http://www.mahsonline.org/exhibitions.asp

and what they say matters because...?

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you wanted an official designation, not something pulled out of a-space.

Carry on.

Ok, then how about an organization WITHIN the Midwest?

http://www.mahsonline.org/exhibitions.asp

includes texas. clearly wrong.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you wanted an official designation, not something pulled out of a-space.

Carry on.

unless the officials have reasons for their designations, then they have also been pulled out of asses. official asses, sure, but asses none the less.

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/usa/statesbw/regions.shtml

Any better? or still wanting to create your own reality?

arizona? vermont?

Exactly. Don't mind me, I'm just being Connecticentric again. And also telling really, really bad jokes.

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/usa/statesbw/regions.shtml

Any better?

since it merely cites the census regions, no. the fact that the census people say something has no bearing on anything by itself.

also, it thinks wyoming is in the northwest. crazy talk.

Kentucky is part of the South.

Illinois is borderline Midwest, the Dakotas /Minnesota/Wisconsin might constitute a significantly separate "northern Midwest" region, but the rest are pure, bible-believing flyover country Midwest.

My proposal is to make all the states of the Midwest one new state called Flyover, with two senators, one elected by the population of California, one by New York, and to let them share their house representation with D.C., killing two birds with one stone.

Any of you unwashed post this yet, or know what it is?

http://www.cs.ru.nl/~freek/pics/steinberg.jpg

since it merely cites the census regions, no. the fact that the census people say something has no bearing on anything by itself.

also, it thinks wyoming is in the northwest. crazy talk.

Or quite possibly the census people say that's the midwest because the map makers, the text books, et cetera say that it is?

Logic talk.

Or quite possibly the census people say that's the midwest because the map makers, the text books, et cetera say that it is?

Logic talk.

explain this:
http://www.fws.gov/midwest/
http://www.cnn.com/LOCAL/midwest/
http://www.seta.iastate.edu/midwestmap.aspx
http://www.umesc.usgs.gov/armi.html

there is a reason wiki says that its not well defined. you can't play "officials say", because even if that was what counted, the officials disagree.

Any of you unwashed post this yet, or know what it is?

Thats ballin'.

And true.

You know how maps made in New England have that big empty area between the Ohio River and California, labeled "Here There Be Dragons"?

The midwest is in there.
Wait wait wait...you mean to tell me there are entire STATES there?! And people too?!


SHE'S A WITCH!

sorry...I may have spent too much time in Salem this weekend...

Did you know New York wasn't part of New England?
Well, it was breifly a part of the Dominion of New England, along with New Jersey...however, it was never considered New England Proper, but only Greater New England.



As for all you other regions, why can't you just come up with a nice, concrete definition for yourselves?

As for all you other regions, why can't you just come up with a nice, concrete definition for yourselves?

we're working on it. NSG decides for all!

Just goes to show you that perception is king. Or queen. Whatever.

Maryland and Delaware, etc are south because they're south of the Mason-Dixon line which is sort of a historical dividing line. Beyond that, those states are definitely schizophrenic - they don't know WHAT they wanna be, but are the only states that are south by default, not inclination. At least not when the wind is in the west and they get that wierd look in their eyes.

Not every "Mid-Atlantic" or "South-Atlantic" states actually have costline. I always figured Pennsylvania should just mug southern New Jersey, beat them over the head, and get some nice Atlantic seaboard. Vermont is just left out in the cold, but hey, they got some nice skiing to make up for it. West Virginia made their choice not to have coastline when they decided to tell the rest of Virginia where to stick it way back when. Pretty much anything that is mainly west of those roadbumps called the Appalachians and north of where people really fight to be considered south is gonna be midwest by default. Thus, Ohio - where people are generally pleasant and land is generally flat is midwest.

About industry? The midwest is an industrial powerhouse - they just don't want anyone else to know about it, so they hide it behind the grain and corn silos and pictures of stern faced farmers and their wives with pitchforks.

Why does the midwest end at the borders of Montana and Wyoming? They're not flat enough - that and even the midwest needs to have people they can look at and say "at least we're not them over thar!"

interestingly, i would include ohio long before i included the dakotas or kansas. hell, i might even include western new york.

i'd actually agree with you on this one - for Ohio and those Plains States.
The Plains States are a different region.
I've also heard of "Great Lakes Region".
I guess it is how you divide up the area.

You might say culturally or sociologically, but geography has an influence on this stuff too.



I went with Michigan, Minnesota, and Wisconsin Illinois and Indiana Iowa & Ohio

we're working on it. NSG decides for all!

Pssht...we've had a concrete definition since 1620. WE WIN! :)

And to think that after all this time, New England is still the only region in this country that can actually claim all of its territories without a problem.

Um... so can the Pacific Coast.

I'm not fond of the term "midwest" since it's really more "mideast," at least if you look at the whole continent (it may be west of the east coast, but it's all east of the continental divide). It's really more the middle. And often, different parts of it have little in common.

The Big 10 (That's not including Pennsylvania).

Um... so can the Pacific Coast.

I'm not fond of the term "midwest" since it's really more "mideast," at least if you look at the whole continent (it may be west of the east coast, but it's all east of the continental divide). It's really more the middle. And often, different parts of it have little in common.

The Pacific coast is nowhere near as culturally similar as New England

And it is the "midwest" because the east was settled first...and the "west" has always been the US frontier

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28836
and also
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/31079


http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/onion_news3270.jpg

Um... so can the Pacific Coast.

I'm not fond of the term "midwest" since it's really more "mideast," at least if you look at the whole continent (it may be west of the east coast, but it's all east of the continental divide). It's really more the middle. And often, different parts of it have little in common.

I too have a problem with the term "Midwest" I understand where it came from, but it still irks me.

Also, Western NY is definitely not part of the Midwest, thanks. I can barely believe Ohio being part of the Midwest. I guess the problem is that many of our geographical terms are very imprecise and often overlap, add to that the ever changing political, cultural and economic realities...

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28836
and also
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/31079
*snip photo*

I loled. Especially at the first article.

Michigan
Ohio
Indiana
Wisconsin
Illinois
Minnesota
Iowa
Missouri

Best region ever? Yes, I think it must be! :D Remember, we have Cedar Point! Muahaha!

I loled. Especially at the first article.

damn those toll booths!!!

:upyours::fluffle:

I loled. Especially at the first article.

i actually had that one stuck on my dorm door back at UW-point

I classified Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and Indiana as Great Lake states. The Great Lakes are significant enough to merit their own region.

Kentucky is Deep South.

Ohio is at the crossroads of the Great Lake States, Deep South and New England. Many of the people now living there came from New England.

So I put down the Dakotas, Missouri, Iowa, Nebraska and Kansas, and consider Eastern Colorado and Oklahoma to be Midwest, as well.

The Pacific coast is nowhere near as culturally similar as New England

And it is the "midwest" because the east was settled first...and the "west" has always been the US frontier

He didn't say culturally similar, it was just about a region being easily defined. The West Coast is a very easily geographically defined region.

And I know where the term comes from. That doesn't make it accurate though. The "mid" part is, but the "west" part most certainly is not.

I classified Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and Indiana as Great Lake states. The Great Lakes are significant enough to merit their own region.

Kentucky is Deep South.

Ohio is at the crossroads of the Great Lake States, Deep South and New England. Many of the people now living there came from New England.

So I put down the Dakotas, Missouri, Iowa, Nebraska and Kansas, and consider Eastern Colorado and Oklahoma to be Midwest, as well.

so essentially you don't really believe in the existence of the midwest, but rather the great lakes and the great plains as two separate regions?

no state that was carved out of the northwest territories counts as midwest.

As a Midwesterner, that looks right. :cool:

Indeed. I'm from the Midwest myself, so I must agree.

no state that was carved out of the northwest territories counts as midwest.

Indiana isn't midwest? Wow.

Ah. Seems I should go back to edit my post to delete "Kentucky" but that would be cheating. I'd been undecided but thought it qualified for Midwest but I'm never beyond learning something on here. :p
But there is no way Ohio (or Indiana!!) isn't part of the Midwest. That's just crazytalk.

He didn't say culturally similar, it was just about a region being easily defined. The West Coast is a very easily geographically defined region.*shrug* I usually consider regions to be slightly more than just a geographical label...most regions have a cutoff based on some kind of cultural identifier (be it modern, historical, or both)

And I know where the term comes from. That doesn't make it accurate though. The "mid" part is, but the "west" part most certainly is not.

But how is the "west" part any less accurate than calling it the "mideast"? Yes, it's to the east of the continental divide, but it straddles the geographic center of the lower 48.

Screw it...let's just call them the "mid-nowhere" states.;)

no state that was carved out of the northwest territories counts as midwest.

do we get to go back to calling ourselves the northwest again? take that, seattle!

I am disappointed that you grou[ed Michigan (which is part of the midwest) with wisconsin and minnesota (which aren't).

I am disappointed that you grou[ed Michigan (which is part of the midwest) with wisconsin and minnesota (which aren't).

dude, in what way are michigan, minnesota, and wisconsin not a unified entity?

All of the states you mentioned are part of the midwest. Though Kentucky is a stretch.

The Pacific coast is nowhere near as culturally similar as New England

New England isn't that culturally similar. Maine, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island are close, but New Hampshire and Vermont are way out there.

As a person from Michigan, I have to say that only part of Michigan lies in the midwest. The western and northern parts of the state are obviously midwest with their hunting culture and more conservative standing. The east of Michigan, especially Oakland county and the surrounding counties are just too, well, east coast for the rest of Michigan. The region is very metropolitan and has nothing to do with farming and other midwestern characteristics.

Visit the western part of Michigan and then the southeastern part. You'll realize what I'm talking about.

As a person from Michigan, I have to say that only part of Michigan lies in the midwest. The western and northern parts of the state are obviously midwest with their hunting culture and more conservative standing. The east of Michigan, especially Oakland county and the surrounding counties are just too, well, east coast for the rest of Michigan. The region is very metropolitan and has nothing to do with farming and other midwestern characteristics.

Visit the western part of Michigan and then the southeastern part. You'll realize what I'm talking about.

is chicago part of the midwest?

Illinois, Missouri, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Indiana and Kentucky.Thats the mid west. :)

New England isn't that culturally similar. Maine, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island are close, but New Hampshire and Vermont are way out there.

If anything the divide would be between the urban south (CT, MA, RI) minus Fairfield County, CT and the north (ME, VT, NH) However, none of the states are particularly far from eachother...Compare, for example the culture of Boston to New Hampshire compared to Boston and NYC or even Hartford and NYC. New England tends to focus on education, liberalism (of some form), the Red Sox, and something of the Puritain work ethic, as well as our consistant cuisine throughout the region

If anything the divide would be between the urban south (CT, MA, RI) minus Fairfield County, CT and the north (ME, VT, NH) However, none of the states are particularly far from eachother...Compare, for example the culture of Boston to New Hampshire compared to Boston and NYC or even Hartford and NYC. New England tends to focus on education, liberalism (of some form), the Red Sox, and something of the Puritain work ethic, as well as our consistant cuisine throughout the region

New England is clam chowder, leaves, Patriots, and Red Sox. Anything else got demolished by the new global culture.

Take a look at a map of the US.
*allows time to Google*
Take a look at the east coast.
*allows time to examine found map*
Over there, somewhere.

North and South Dakota, Kansas, Nebraska, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin

Great lakes states are different, there's some overlap, but they're different.

Great lakes states are New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota. Only thing they have in common is that they've got water access.

YOU FORGOT WISCONSIN!! It has the 2nd longest coastline on the great lakes!

Um... so can the Pacific Coast.

I'm not fond of the term "midwest" since it's really more "mideast," at least if you look at the whole continent (it may be west of the east coast, but it's all east of the continental divide). It's really more the middle. And often, different parts of it have little in common.

Not when many maps and bureaus keep stating that Arizona is either part of the Southwest, Pacific Coast, or Mountain. Arizona is the wild card that keeps the Pacific Coast region from being as concrete as New England... Then again, Nevada also gives some similar problems.

Not when many maps and bureaus keep stating that Arizona is either part of the Southwest, Pacific Coast, or Mountain. Arizona is the wild card that keeps the Pacific Coast region from being as concrete as New England... Then again, Nevada also gives some similar problems.

Arizona as Pacific Coast? I've never heard of this. I would think that the term "Pacific Coast" would be fairly self explanatory... that is... that if your state does not touch the Pacific Ocean, it isn't part of the Pacific Coast. The only exception I can think of is the Pac-10 college Athletic conference.

YOU FORGOT WISCONSIN!! It has the 2nd longest coastline on the great lakes!

hey, how long is its coastline compared to the coastal states? i know michigan's coast is longer than the entire east coast of the u.s., but wisconsin's has got be be fairly big too.

bump for one more day of voting before we declare where the midwest is

Kansas is not the midwest? How do you figure? Its the default midwestern state. 'sides Kansas City is the barbeque capital of the world, any region should be proud to have it!

Isn't Kansas Cty in Missouri?

Isn't Kansas Cty in Missouri?

Most of it is.

Isn't Kansas Cty in Missouri?
Actually, there's a Kansas City, Kansas, but I don't know if that Kansas city is the bbq capital of the world...

Actually, there's a Kansas City, Kansas, but I don't know if that Kansas city is the bbq capital of the world...

heh, sadly I agree. However, Kansas City, as a whole, IS the undisputed bbq capital of the world!

As a Native Midwesterner, the generally accepted view of the midwest ( by those who are midwestern) is all states that are:
1)North of the Ohio River
2)West of Pa.
3)East of the Missouri River
4)South of Canada (Duh)
and of couse there is a upper and lower midwest.
States that meet the criteria are: Illlinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Ohio and Wisconsin. Ia, Mi, Mn and Wi are considered the Upper Midwest. The others are considered the Lower Midwest.
Although to some , Ohio is considered an eastern state and Missouri is considered a southern state( probably due to its having both Union and Confederate Governments during the civil war).
Kansas and Nebraska are western states, look at the history books: Dodge City Gunfights, Indian Wars-both happened in the american west,same for the Dakotas. Thats how i was brought up to think of the area.

Ohio in the Midwest? It is south of me so there for is in the south. Duh.

In all seriousness the "Midwest" region is what sociologist use to describe anything that isn't on either coast or down south...

Only 'cause you twits have your state broken in half. Seriously, give up the upper peninsula.
If Kentucky gets to keep Kentucky Bend (an isolated pocket of Kentucky accessible only from Tennessee), I think Michigan can keep the peninsula.

As a Native Midwesterner, the generally accepted view of the midwest ( by those who are midwestern) is all states that are:
1)North of the Ohio River
2)West of Pa.
3)East of the Missouri River
4)South of Canada (Duh)
and of couse there is a upper and lower midwest.
States that meet the criteria are: Illlinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Ohio and Wisconsin. Ia, Mi, Mn and Wi are considered the Upper Midwest. The others are considered the Lower Midwest.
Although to some , Ohio is considered an eastern state and Missouri is considered a southern state( probably due to its having both Union and Confederate Governments during the civil war).
Kansas and Nebraska are western states, look at the history books: Dodge City Gunfights, Indian Wars-both happened in the american west,same for the Dakotas. Thats how i was brought up to think of the area.
This sounds way too sensible. *approves*

I would consider states that were part of the Old Northwest, north of Missouri and part of the Louisiana Purchase to be the Midwest.

Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Kentucky, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Missouri, Kansas.

A traditional response, save the inclusion of Kentucky.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/af/Map_of_USA_showing_regions.png

TX & OK part of the south? Not so much. The few Texans and Okies I know would have a problem with that.

The great lakes states are their own region. I've never heard of them considered midwestern.

Spoken like someone who hasn't spent much time there. I was born in Michigan, and knew it as part of the Midwest. I'm not saying I believe that to be correct, but you having never heard it doesn't enter into the equation. The vast majority have heard it.

It's kinda like the plains states, Kansas is in the midwest but it's also a plains state.....Oklahoma is in the south but it's a plains state.

Oklahoma is not in the south. If it is anything it's a hybrid West Texas ("Southwest") and Plains state. The accents, cuisine and culture show that.

The map below makes more sense than most that I have seen.

http://hpb.efficiencyvermont.com/images/census-map.gif

The divisions make sense, but the names? "West Midwest?" That's really all the more creative they got? And don't get me started on "East South-Central", ffs. Delineation is all about efficiency and ease of remembrance.

i think the proper midwest should get minnesota. no reason to go lumping them in with the vast empty, just because they're on the other side of the river. they've got trees and everything.

Ever been there? I'd wager half to two-thirds of Minnesota is prairie. Where do you think Garrison Keillor set Lake Wobegon and A Prairie Home Companion? Trust me, between the cultural love of mayonnaise and Jell-O, the Canadiesque vowels and accent, the Catholic/Lutheran predisposition and superabundance of Scandinavians, Minnesota and Dakota are quite similar.

That looks about right, though I question the inclusion of Indiana, Missouri and Kentucky. Then again, I grew up in North Dakota.

Where? I teach at U-Mary in Bismarck.

No way is Missouri a Midwestern state...

I hate to keep asking this, but -- ever been there? Everyone I've met from Missouri would disagree with you. Where would you have it? The south?

The geographic center of the contiguous states is here (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=lebanon,+kansas&ie=UTF8&ll=39.842286,-98.525391&spn=38.003726,71.015625&z=4&iwloc=addr&om=1).
I don't know if that helps any, but it seemed interesting.

It doesn't help because it's wrong. The contiguous states are not the whole of the nation. Alaska and Hawaii count, no matter what anyone says to the contrary. That puts the geographical center of ALL of the USA at 20 miles north of Belle Fourche, South Dakota (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-03-22-nation-center_N.htm). The geographical center of the whole of the North American Continent is Rugby, North Dakota.

*snip the good stuff*

Why does the midwest end at the borders of Montana and Wyoming? They're not flat enough - that and even the midwest needs to have people they can look at and say "at least we're not them over thar!"

Uh...one more time...ever been there? The midwest doesn't end there, trust me. Drive from Theodore Roosevelt National Park in Medora, ND to the west, and it will be one long drive before you get to any appreciable mountainous territory. The whole eastern third of MT is flatter than Debra Messing (which is no slam, I think she's hawt -- I dig flat when it comes to women, but not topography...I'm rife with contradictions), and deserves whatever label you'd assign to the Dakotas. The same can be said of northeastern Wyoming.


But how is the "west" part any less accurate than calling it the "mideast"? Yes, it's to the east of the continental divide, but it straddles the geographic center of the lower 48.

"Lower 48" again. Inaccurate as well as provincial. How is anything in the US "lower" than Hawaii that isn't a possession or territory and not a state? Nothing in Ohio comes close to straddling Lebanon, KS; and even farther from Belle Fourche, SD or even Rugby, ND -- so there's that theory shot.

do we get to go back to calling ourselves the northwest again? take that, Seattle!

Fixed.

And no, you don't. Perhaps I'm just in a foul mood today, but all the things labelled "northwest" in Minnesota and the Dakotas and the like have been inaccurate since at least 1859 (Oregon's statehood) and more accurately 1848 (Oregon Territory S. of 49th parallel, by US Congress). You fools have had 150-160 YEARS to change business names and otherwise pull your heads out. Northwesterners even compromised by calling themselves the Pacific Northwest, which had the double bonus of being both accurate and polite with regard to tradition.

I remember as a kid when I learned that Northwestern University was part of the Big-10 and not the Pac-10 when I was just learning how college football worked. I thought, "well that's just stupid". I then learned about the geopolitical history of my nation and let it slide for the sake of longevity and first claim. But all the businesses clearly not in existence before 1859 having the nerve to call themselves "northwest" ANYthing (most egregiously Northwest Airlines, when you consider where the majority of Boeing workers live and work -- founded in 1916, even Washington had been a state for 25 years by then, Oregon for 57 years) need to look at a freakin' map.

As a Native Midwesterner, the generally accepted view of the midwest ( by those who are midwestern) is all states that are:
1)North of the Ohio River
2)West of Pa.

I can take or leave that -- it's fine so far, until...

3)East of the Missouri River

Uh, no. That splits the Dakotas just about in half.

4)South of Canada (Duh)
and of couse there is a upper and lower midwest.
States that meet the criteria are: Illlinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Ohio and Wisconsin.

If you're including the Missouri as a boundary, you're including about 3/5 of North Dakota and about 2/5 of South Dakota. Which is it?

Ia, Mi, Mn and Wi are considered the Upper Midwest. The others are considered the Lower Midwest.

When I moved here over two years ago, I was welcomed "to the Upper Midwest" by damn near everyone. Others said "Northern Plains".

Upper Midwest: IA, ND, MI, MN, SD, WI
Lower Midwest: IL, IN, KS, MO, NE

That's the only way it makes sense, and Ohio gets to be a region unto itself, 'cause I know lots of folks from there, and they don't consider them selves "lower" Midwest, not ever, not once, and "upper" wouldn't fit it, either.

Although to some , Ohio is considered an eastern state and Missouri is considered a southern state (probably due to its having both Union and Confederate Governments during the civil war).

At least there's some logic to that...

Kansas and Nebraska are western states, look at the history books: Dodge City Gunfights, Indian Wars-both happened in the american west,same for the Dakotas. Thats how i was brought up to think of the area.[/QUOTE]

...unlike this. The "wild west" type of frontier lawlessness you're referring to merely spread THROUGH those states on its way west. Those states are no more western now than ANY state really is, save perhaps Nevada. Kansas and Nebraska are Plains States, pure and simple. When registered vehicles vastly outnumber people, you're in a Plains State, more often than not (or, as in my case, when the county you left has a higher population than the state in which you arrived...).

Okay, I'll give this a try without cutting any states up. I've done that already.

New England is as it was: ME, NH, VT, MA, RI, CT.
Mid-Atlantic applies to states with atlantic coastline south of New England (sorry, PA), so that's NY, NJ, MD, DE, VA, DC.
Mideast: PA, OH, WV, KY.
Southeast: NC, SC, GA, FL.
South: TN, AL, MS, LA, AR.
Midwest: MI, IN, IL, WI.
Northern Plains: ND, SD, IA, MN.
Southern Plains: KS, OK, MO, NE.
That's a nice 4:4 division, and a fair fraction of IA is farther north than Nebraska. Now, as for where to put Texas. I lived there for a summer and saw Waco, Austin, Dallas, Houston, Galveston, Beaumont, Port Arthur, and San Antonio. Folks, the place is flat. The hill country is no more hilly than some of the hills around Bismarck. It's a Plains State. But it's also on the Gulf Coast, and from around Houston to the east is as much "the South" as any part of Louisiana (and I visited there, too). So you can catcall all you want, but I'm gonna do this, and set up what we all know is true and Texans believe in their heart of hearts anyway...
Texas: TX. :cool:
Mountain West or, as I've heard from a good friend in Wyoming, the Inter-Mountain West: MT, WY, CO, UT, ID, NV.
Southwest: AZ, NM, TX*
*For those of you who can't stand Texas having its own region, despite it's size and range of possible sub-divisions. ;)
Pacific: AK, HI, CA, OR, WA.

How's that? I know that regional contiguities cross these borders, but this is geographical, not cultural.

As a Native Midwesterner, the generally accepted view of the midwest ( by those who are midwestern) is all states that are:
1)North of the Ohio River
2)West of Pa.
3)East of the Missouri River
4)South of Canada (Duh)
and of couse there is a upper and lower midwest.
States that meet the criteria are: Illlinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Ohio and Wisconsin. Ia, Mi, Mn and Wi are considered the Upper Midwest. The others are considered the Lower Midwest.
Although to some , Ohio is considered an eastern state and Missouri is considered a southern state( probably due to its having both Union and Confederate Governments during the civil war).
Kansas and Nebraska are western states, look at the history books: Dodge City Gunfights, Indian Wars-both happened in the american west,same for the Dakotas. Thats how i was brought up to think of the area.

So Michigan doesn't count? You do have to drive north from Windsor to get here :p

Fuck Missouri. Get out. We don't want you.

Fuck Missouri. Get out. We don't want you.

Such anger.

Where did that come from?

Such anger.

Where did that come from?

People trying to stick a bunch of random crap in the Midwest. We already have to deal with Ohio. :mad:

Okay, I'll give this a try without cutting any states up. I've done that already.

New England is as it was: ME, NH, VT, MA, RI, CT.
Mid-Atlantic applies to states with atlantic coastline south of New England (sorry, PA), so that's NY, NJ, MD, DE, VA, DC.
Mideast: PA, OH, WV, KY.
Southeast: NC, SC, GA, FL.
South: TN, AL, MS, LA, AR.
Midwest: MI, IN, IL, WI.
Northern Plains: ND, SD, IA, MN.
Southern Plains: KS, OK, MO, NE.
That's a nice 4:4 division, and a fair fraction of IA is farther north than Nebraska. Now, as for where to put Texas. I lived there for a summer and saw Waco, Austin, Dallas, Houston, Galveston, Beaumont, Port Arthur, and San Antonio. Folks, the place is flat. The hill country is no more hilly than some of the hills around Bismarck. It's a Plains State. But it's also on the Gulf Coast, and from around Houston to the east is as much "the South" as any part of Louisiana (and I visited there, too). So you can catcall all you want, but I'm gonna do this, and set up what we all know is true and Texans believe in their heart of hearts anyway...
Texas: TX. :cool:
Mountain West or, as I've heard from a good friend in Wyoming, the Inter-Mountain West: MT, WY, CO, UT, ID, NV.
Southwest: AZ, NM, TX*
*For those of you who can't stand Texas having its own region, despite it's size and range of possible sub-divisions. ;)
Pacific: AK, HI, CA, OR, WA.

How's that? I know that regional contiguities cross these borders, but this is geographical, not cultural.

No Great Plains?

Okay, I'll give this a try without cutting any states up. I've done that already.

New England is as it was: ME, NH, VT, MA, RI, CT.
Mid-Atlantic applies to states with atlantic coastline south of New England (sorry, PA), so that's NY, NJ, MD, DE, VA, DC.
Mideast: PA, OH, WV, KY.
Southeast: NC, SC, GA, FL.
South: TN, AL, MS, LA, AR.
Midwest: MI, IN, IL, WI.
Northern Plains: ND, SD, IA, MN.
Southern Plains: KS, OK, MO, NE.
That's a nice 4:4 division, and a fair fraction of IA is farther north than Nebraska. Now, as for where to put Texas. I lived there for a summer and saw Waco, Austin, Dallas, Houston, Galveston, Beaumont, Port Arthur, and San Antonio. Folks, the place is flat. The hill country is no more hilly than some of the hills around Bismarck. It's a Plains State. But it's also on the Gulf Coast, and from around Houston to the east is as much "the South" as any part of Louisiana (and I visited there, too). So you can catcall all you want, but I'm gonna do this, and set up what we all know is true and Texans believe in their heart of hearts anyway...
Texas: TX. :cool:
Mountain West or, as I've heard from a good friend in Wyoming, the Inter-Mountain West: MT, WY, CO, UT, ID, NV.
Southwest: AZ, NM, TX*
*For those of you who can't stand Texas having its own region, despite it's size and range of possible sub-divisions. ;)
Pacific: AK, HI, CA, OR, WA.

How's that? I know that regional contiguities cross these borders, but this is geographical, not cultural.

^this sounds logical and in line with my experience.

Ever been there? I'd wager half to two-thirds of Minnesota is prairie. Where do you think Garrison Keillor set Lake Wobegon and A Prairie Home Companion? Trust me, between the cultural love of mayonnaise and Jell-O, the Canadiesque vowels and accent, the Catholic/Lutheran predisposition and superabundance of Scandinavians, Minnesota and Dakota are quite similar.

i'll admit that the dakotas are similar to the sucky part of minnesota. but if the sucky part of illinois isn't enough to lump it in with the vast empty, it isn't enough for minn either. the glacial carved lakey and foresty landscape and great lakes connection and multiple sizable population centers win out over any grassy connection.

also, fargo calls itself the gateway to the west (as does omaha, for that matter), while sioux falls calls itself the gateway to the plains. so they seem to be making the distinction between the state they are in and the state they sit just on the other side of the border from.

As for the dakota's super abundance of scandanavians, that's just because they didn't get any further immigration on top of that, while the rest of the midwest did, combined with the fact that nobody lives there. you have more people with scandinavian ancestry in chicago than you do in the dakotas

interestingly, i would include ohio long before i included the dakotas or kansas. hell, i might even include western new york.

Western New York ?!!! Are you insane?

The mid-west is Ohio, Indiana and Illinois. Kansas, in American history, is considered one of the 'Great Plains' states (along with Iowa and Nebraska). The Dakotas are, simply, the Dakotas...for the great Indian tribe. Minnesota is part of the 'Great Lakes Region' and Kentucky (or most of it) is south of the Mason-Dixon line....it's considered a southern state.

I've never heard of a 'mid-east' state in my life and why does Texas get to stand alone? I know it's big but Honey, why isn't California just 'California'?

Just where is the Midwest, anyway?

somewhere over the brainbow

=^^=
.../\...

Uh...one more time...ever been there? The midwest doesn't end there, trust me. Drive from Theodore Roosevelt National Park in Medora, ND to the west, and it will be one long drive before you get to any appreciable mountainous territory. The whole eastern third of MT is flatter than Debra Messing (which is no slam, I think she's hawt -- I dig flat when it comes to women, but not topography...I'm rife with contradictions), and deserves whatever label you'd assign to the Dakotas. The same can be said of northeastern Wyoming.

I know it's a late in coming but as a matter of fact, yes I have been there - half my family is from Wisconsin (which breaks the flat rule itself in a lot of places) and I've been all over the midwest. I enjoy it. :-D

The divide is more psychological than anything else, of course - and is honored in the breach as much in the keeping of the "what is the midwest" tradition.

The midwest is comprised of the "states/territories" that were purchased during the Louisiana Purchase. Then they were given boundaries and names.

The midwest is comprised of the "states/territories" that were purchased during the Louisiana Purchase. Then they were given boundaries and names.

Yes, Louisiana and Colorado are very Midwestern states.

Actually I've decided that the Midwest is everywhere that sucks. That means you, Wyoming! :upyours:

ns decides! tells great plains to fuck off!

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2803/nsmweu3.gif

midwest fer damn sure in green. ns is less sure about ohio, so it gets to be differenter colored.

Am I the only one getting sick of the USian thing? It just makes those that use it look stupid. I'd also inculde the Dakotas as a gray area but I could understand their exclusion.

Am I the only one getting sick of the USian thing?

nope, lots of people complain about it. which is really half the fun for some who use it.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/af/Map_of_USA_showing_regions.png

wiki loses, nsg wins
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2803/nsmweu3.gif


though this one on wiki is pretty close to the truth
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/US_map-Midwest.PNG