NationStates Jolt Archive


Supporters of the Toyota Prius...

Zahrebska
23-10-2007, 14:24
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BDNdH9pVdsE

Defend yourselves...
Forsakia
23-10-2007, 14:35
Are you unable to write down an argument rather than just linking to videos?
Zahrebska
23-10-2007, 14:42
Are you unable to write down an argument rather than just linking to videos?

I'd like the argument to speek for itself from said video.
OceanDrive2
23-10-2007, 14:43
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BDNdH9pVdsE

Defend yourselves...some 2 months ago I rented an hybrid for a week, It did cost me about half the $$ I usually pay at the pump.
HC Eredivisie
23-10-2007, 14:48
I'd like the argument to speek for itself from said video.
That it has a nice blue color?
Zahrebska
23-10-2007, 14:48
some 2 months ago I rented an hybrid for a week, It did cost me about half the $$ I usually pay at the pump.

Are you American? If so do you have acess to the other European cars that will proerbly have done the same.
Zahrebska
23-10-2007, 14:49
That it has a nice blue color?

Did you actually watch the video?
HC Eredivisie
23-10-2007, 14:52
Did you actually watch the video?
Yes, how else should I know it was blue?
Lunatic Goofballs
23-10-2007, 14:53
Also the guy in the video sounded funny. I think he's constipated.
Zahrebska
23-10-2007, 14:53
Yes, how else should I know it was blue?

But if thats all you know you clearly didn't watch it.
Infinite Revolution
23-10-2007, 14:54
that's a rubbish top gear video. this one's way better: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jrmNf6ZD0Zw&NR=1
HC Eredivisie
23-10-2007, 14:55
But if thats all you know you clearly didn't watch it.I did, at the end he mentions he got 75 mpg.;)

Now make the point you want to make.
Skaladora
23-10-2007, 14:58
Also the guy in the video sounded funny. I think he's constipated.

Actually, he's just British.
Chumblywumbly
23-10-2007, 14:58
Defend yourselves...
From what?

Jeremy Clarkson; a man who believes climate change doesn’t exist because there is still ice at the North Pole? A man who believes emissions from cars have no effect whatsoever on the Earth?

A man who’s every word is scripted and who spends his days in a large hanger surrounded by people orgasming over his xenophobic witticisms?

I think not.
Lunatic Goofballs
23-10-2007, 14:59
Actually, he's just British.

Is that it?

Maybe he's both.
Chumblywumbly
23-10-2007, 15:02
Is that it?
He’s not just British, he’s a British twat.
Zahrebska
23-10-2007, 15:13
From what?

Jeremy Clarkson; a man who believes climate change doesn’t exist because there is still ice at the North Pole? A man who believes emissions from cars have no effect whatsoever on the Earth?

A man who’s every word is scripted and who spends his days in a large hanger surrounded by people orgasming over his xenophobic witticisms?

I think not.

1. Its not scripted, and if you believe it is, kindly prove it.
2. His beliefs on climite change are irrelevent to this point.
3. Its not efficent, diesels are more so
4. It lies about its efficency. Not just advertising exageration, flat out lies.
5. Its not especially green because when the petrol engine is being used to charge the battery its still producing fumes and it harly every uses its battery
Skaladora
23-10-2007, 15:22
Is that it?

Maybe he's both.

Is one not the equivalent of the other?
Chumblywumbly
23-10-2007, 15:46
Its not scripted, and if you believe it is, kindly prove it.
It has a script editor (http://uk.imdb.com/name/nm1642968/), and is so painfully obviously scripted.

Just listen to Clarkson and his little friends talk on-screen.
The blessed Chris
23-10-2007, 15:51
Supporters of the Prius are more than entitled to buy one. A tatoo reading "twat" on their forehead would, admittedly, be cheaper, and achieve much the same effect.

Clarkson = God. :)
Chumblywumbly
23-10-2007, 16:20
Clarkson = God. :)
How unsurprising. :p
Walther Realized
23-10-2007, 16:28
Setting aside the fact that the video is fairly biased, it still has a point. How can a car with an elecric engine that's charged by a gasoline one be that much better than a car with only a gasoline one? You can't get energy from nothing, so that gasoline engine is still what's powering the car.

Instead of convincing people that the laws of thermodynamics don't apply to them, shouldn't we encourage them to get a more fuel-efficient vehicle?
CthulhuFhtagn
23-10-2007, 16:31
Setting aside the fact that the video is fairly biased, it still has a point. How can a car with an elecric engine that's charged by a gasoline one be that much better than a car with only a gasoline one? You can't get energy from nothing, so that gasoline engine is still what's powering the car.

The electric engine is powered by a battery as well as gasoline. That's why it gets more mpg than a car powered by gasoline alone.
Lunatic Goofballs
23-10-2007, 16:33
Setting aside the fact that the video is fairly biased, it still has a point. How can a car with an elecric engine that's charged by a gasoline one be that much better than a car with only a gasoline one? You can't get energy from nothing, so that gasoline engine is still what's powering the car.

Instead of convincing people that the laws of thermodynamics don't apply to them, shouldn't we encourage them to get a more fuel-efficient vehicle?

Well, I don't want to get too technical, but the simplified version is that an engine powering the car has to run harder or softer as the demands of the vehicle change. An engine produing electricity to power a motor only has to run at one speed; the most efficient. It has only one power mode: on. Thus, it can produce more power on the same amount of fuel.

Add to that recovery of lost energy in the form of braking recovery systems and you produce a much more eficient system.
Chumblywumbly
23-10-2007, 16:33
Instead of convincing people that the laws of thermodynamics don’t apply to them, shouldn’t we encourage them to get a more fuel-efficient vehicle?
And that’s one of the problems I have with Clarkson.

Yes, he’s (potentially) identified a glaring stupidity in a car designed by people interested in profit as opposed to combating climate change, but in later statements he identifies all supporters of action against climate change as Prius drivers, scoffs at the very idea of climate change, and argues that cars have little effect, if none at all, on the Earth.

Eejit.
Kecibukia
23-10-2007, 16:35
I just traded my truck for one :( and am now getting 48mpg compared to 12mpg. That's all the justification I need. Don't believe it? I drove 300 miles starting w/ a full tank and only put in a little over 6 gallons when I refueled.
Intangelon
23-10-2007, 16:44
I did, at the end he mentions he got 75 mpg.;)

Now make the point you want to make.

He did. The 75mpg figure was when he drove the same route as the Prius (on which he got 45mpg), but with a Volkwagen Lupo diesel. Make sure you're really paying attention to the videos when they're on, m'kay?

As far as the hybrid debate, I figure anything that gets people thinking about green driving is better than doing bugger all. A 1.5 Toyota engine will be just about as efficient and clean as a gasoline engine can be, so it still beats larger engines. I would never own a Prius in North Dakota, because the vast majority of your miles here are highway, so there'd be no big advantage, if any, over a well-tuned diesel or a Honda. However, in majority city driving, you'd use the battery/electric far more often and see substantial savings compared even to a diesel. So it's all a matter of what kind of driving you do.

So long as we're not sucking the horsepower teat as much, I don't care how it gets done. Some people think we're entitled to drive whatever the hell we want to and nuts to gas prices and supply or the environment or what have you. But driving is, as it always has been, a privilege we earn and not a right. As such, governments have, and should have, a say as to how the roads they build are used, and since (nominally) government is by representation, everyone (in a representative government) has a say in some form. My opinion would be that it's time we grew up and got out of automobile adolescence and made people pay shitloads for vehicles they don't need. Show me four birth certificates or adoption papers (or business license, farm subsidy check stub, or whatever you'd need a huge engine and multiple seats or hauling capacity for) and you can have the SUV/minivan/pickup.
HC Eredivisie
23-10-2007, 17:02
He did. The 75mpg figure was when he drove the same route as the Prius (on which he got 45mpg), but with a Volkwagen Lupo diesel. Make sure you're really paying attention to the videos when they're on, m'kay?
Where do I say he got that mileage with the Prius?;)
Pan-Arab Barronia
23-10-2007, 17:05
Is it just me that sees Top Gear for what it is? A comedy-cum-car review show?
OceanDrive2
23-10-2007, 17:08
Are you American?Yes I am.

If so do you have acess to the other European cars that will proerbly have done the same.I have nothing against smaller engines and/or Diesel cars.

But If you believe everything that idiot says.. you are a pogo. :D (yes I just made up that word)
Creepy Lurker
23-10-2007, 17:22
I think one of the major problems with the Prius is what goes into making one. I remember reading about a place in America somewhere that has been turned into a toxic wasteland due to the mine that was created purely for nickle or cadmium (I can't remember which) for the batteries.

Get a VW Bluemotion Golf!
SeathorniaII
23-10-2007, 17:26
I think one of the major problems with the Prius is what goes into making one. I remember reading about a place in America somewhere that has been turned into a toxic wasteland due to the mine that was created purely for nickle or cadmium (I can't remember which) for the batteries.

Get a VW Bluemotion Golf!

Nickel AND Cadmium. It makes Nickel-Cadmium batteries.
RLI Rides Again
23-10-2007, 17:33
From what?

Jeremy Clarkson; a man who believes climate change doesn’t exist because there is still ice at the North Pole? A man who believes emissions from cars have no effect whatsoever on the Earth?

A man who’s every word is scripted and who spends his days in a large hanger surrounded by people orgasming over his xenophobic witticisms?

I think not.

He also thinks that hunting endangered species to extinction is fine. The man has his cranium permanently stuck up his rectum.
Khadgar
23-10-2007, 17:33
I think one of the major problems with the Prius is what goes into making one. I remember reading about a place in America somewhere that has been turned into a toxic wasteland due to the mine that was created purely for nickle or cadmium (I can't remember which) for the batteries.

Get a VW Bluemotion Golf!

Sounds to me like a job for the EPA.
CthulhuFhtagn
23-10-2007, 17:37
Nickel AND Cadmium. It makes Nickel-Cadmium batteries.

Which are used in plenty of other things besides Priuses, so you really can't blame that on them.
Cosmopoles
23-10-2007, 18:00
Is it just me that sees Top Gear for what it is? A comedy-cum-car review show?

Same here. I dont' take Jeremy Clarkson's political views very seriously as it's quite clear that they are mostly an exaggeration designed to wind up environmentalists. While I certainly don't agree with what he says, I do find it hugely entertaining.
Walther Realized
23-10-2007, 20:26
Well, I don't want to get too technical, but the simplified version is that an engine powering the car has to run harder or softer as the demands of the vehicle change. An engine produing electricity to power a motor only has to run at one speed; the most efficient. It has only one power mode: on. Thus, it can produce more power on the same amount of fuel.

Add to that recovery of lost energy in the form of braking recovery systems and you produce a much more eficient system.

Actually, that really makes sense. Awesome :D

Does the point made in the movie hold up, that there are cars that get much better mileage without an electric engine? If there are cars that get 75 MPG, why aren't we driving them? Is it our (the US's) culture of 'bigger and faster'? Is it some sort of taboo to own a car tiny enough to make that kind of mileage?
Kecibukia
23-10-2007, 20:41
Actually, that really makes sense. Awesome :D

Does the point made in the movie hold up, that there are cars that get much better mileage without an electric engine? If there are cars that get 75 MPG, why aren't we driving them? Is it our (the US's) culture of 'bigger and faster'? Is it some sort of taboo to own a car tiny enough to make that kind of mileage?

It can get 75 in certain conditions. Diesels are less efficient in heavy urban environments and produce more pollutants.

Maybe they should build a hybrid diesel.
Lord Raug
23-10-2007, 20:47
Actually, that really makes sense. Awesome :D

Does the point made in the movie hold up, that there are cars that get much better mileage without an electric engine? If there are cars that get 75 MPG, why aren't we driving them? Is it our (the US's) culture of 'bigger and faster'? Is it some sort of taboo to own a car tiny enough to make that kind of mileage?

Who loses out if cars get 75mpg? Oil Companies. They buy off car companies to keep gas mileage down. I'm sure someone will disagree with me but cars getting that kind of fuel mileage is not anything new.

Anyway for the most part hybrids as of today are somewhat of a scam. Not to say that can't change in the future. For one thing the only time they are really beneficial is in city driving below 50mph. Because when your sitting at a traffic light the gas engine shuts down or nearly does burning very little fuel.

Also the electric motor powers the car to somewhere around 15mph before the gas engine takes over. Most fuel is burned in acceleration not constant speed.

The replacement of batteries also needs to be taken into consideration as well it is not cheap to replace the battery which will need to be replaced. This is going to cut into your savings at the pump; probably around what you actually save in fuel, depending on how much you actually drive before the battery dies.
Kecibukia
23-10-2007, 21:17
Who loses out if cars get 75mpg? Oil Companies. They buy off car companies to keep gas mileage down. I'm sure someone will disagree with me but cars getting that kind of fuel mileage is not anything new.

Anyway for the most part hybrids as of today are somewhat of a scam. Not to say that can't change in the future. For one thing the only time they are really beneficial is in city driving below 50mph. Because when your sitting at a traffic light the gas engine shuts down or nearly does burning very little fuel.

Also the electric motor powers the car to somewhere around 15mph before the gas engine takes over. Most fuel is burned in acceleration not constant speed.

The replacement of batteries also needs to be taken into consideration as well it is not cheap to replace the battery which will need to be replaced. This is going to cut into your savings at the pump; probably around what you actually save in fuel, depending on how much you actually drive before the battery dies.

So what are the numbers of hybrid batteries going bad?
Cannot think of a name
23-10-2007, 21:25
So what are the numbers of hybrid batteries going bad?

I'd like to see this. The Insight has been around now for 10 years, and the all gloomer doomers about the hybrid cars have been talking about the shelf life of hybrids. I still see a fair amount of Insights on the road, saw two yesterday including the first time I've ever seen one gas up. You'd think with all their reaching they'd be jumping up and down about stories of Insights crapping out.

I'm not saying they aren't, what I am saying is that we don't have to speculate, there are 10 year old Insights out there, how are they fairing?

EDIT: Apparently 2000, not 1997. I was pretty sure that it was 1997, but the buying guides only go back to 2000.
Rubiconic Crossings
23-10-2007, 21:29
Are you American? If so do you have acess to the other European cars that will proerbly have done the same.

Other European cars? The Prius is a Toyota...that would be Japanese....
Vetalia
23-10-2007, 22:24
The Prius is pretty much the best you can get in the United States. There aren't any modern diesels (except for conversions and commercial trucks), and the kind of subcompacts you see in Europe aren't widely available due to safety concerns. 45 mpg is pretty damn good compared to the 15-20 mpg of SUVs and the fleet average of 27.5 miles per gallon for cars.
Kecibukia
23-10-2007, 22:33
The Prius is pretty much the best you can get in the United States. There aren't any modern diesels (except for conversions and commercial trucks), and the kind of subcompacts you see in Europe aren't widely available due to safety concerns. 45 mpg is pretty damn good compared to the 15-20 mpg of SUVs and the fleet average of 27.5 miles per gallon for cars.

I'm guessing I'm the only one here who actually owns one.
Hydesland
23-10-2007, 22:34
I just traded my truck for one :( and am now getting 48mpg compared to 12mpg. That's all the justification I need. Don't believe it? I drove 300 miles starting w/ a full tank and only put in a little over 6 gallons when I refueled.

Thats why.
Hydesland
23-10-2007, 22:36
From what?

Jeremy Clarkson; a man who believes climate change doesn’t exist because there is still ice at the North Pole? A man who believes emissions from cars have no effect whatsoever on the Earth?


Source?
Turquoise Days
23-10-2007, 22:49
Source?

Pretty much every column he's written on the subject, most of Top Gear, etc etc. I thought his opinion on climate change was common knowledge. :confused:
Hydesland
23-10-2007, 22:55
Pretty much every column he's written on the subject, most of Top Gear, etc etc. I thought his opinion on climate change was common knowledge. :confused:

From what I've seen, he doesn't support bans on high performance cars and other green measures regarding automobiles. I don't think he actually denies climate change, he's just pissed off about it.
Pure Metal
23-10-2007, 23:50
oh man i just had to post this http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-NZpS_gndDE :p

gotta love top gear (much as i may dislike Clarkson's politics)
Chumblywumbly
24-10-2007, 00:01
Source?
As TD says, pretty much every newspaper column and television show he’s been involved in.

At the end of this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=3eFnAWE7atA) clip, from a Top Gear special where Clarkson & co drive to the North Pole in a car (!), he says:

“they said we’d never get to the pole because of the damage the car has already done to the ice cap... the inconvenient truth is it doesn’t even appear to have scratched the surface”.

Presumably ‘they’ refers to those of us concerned about climate change — which is strange as ‘they’ never make any sort of claim in the show about whether or not a car could make it to the North Pole — but in this light, the entire program seems to be setting out to show how wonderful, and innocent, the car is.

Something he stresses in all his programs and columns.

Now, this shouldn’t get out of perspective; Jeremy Clarkson is just a twat with a big mouth and a strange eroticism for cars. But he’s a twat with a big mouth who a lot of people with a certain mindset (see: TBC’s comments above) seem to hail as some sort of prophet.

Worrying.
Zahrebska
24-10-2007, 00:32
It has a script editor (http://uk.imdb.com/name/nm1642968/), and is so painfully obviously scripted.

Just listen to Clarkson and his little friends talk on-screen.

Erm, a script EDITOR not writer. Its not to edit a script, its to edit what they say. If it was scripted, it would have a script WRITER.
Zahrebska
24-10-2007, 00:35
Other European cars? The Prius is a Toyota...that would be Japanese....

Erm, I was saying other as an alternative to the Prius. Other cars, that are European and are as good if not better
Chumblywumbly
24-10-2007, 00:52
Erm, a script EDITOR not writer. Its not to edit a script, its to edit what they say. If it was scripted, it would have a script WRITER.
If the show isn’t scripted, then why have a script editor in the first place?

Script editors are employed on scripted shows, usually to help out the script writers, develop storylines, etc. They're also, AFAIK, more permanent members of the crew compared to script writers, which is why you can find the script editors name on IMDB, but not the writers.

Again, why have someone who edits scripts work for a non-scripted show?

Moreover, just listen to the words coming out of Clarkson’s mouth. The one-liners, the mad analogies, the intonation, the cuts from him starting a sentence in voice-over, then finishing the sentence inside a car (too many of my friends watch this bloody show...). Do you really think he walks up to a car, drives it around, then just comes up with the crap on the spot?
Cannot think of a name
24-10-2007, 00:53
Erm, a script EDITOR not writer. Its not to edit a script, its to edit what they say. If it was scripted, it would have a script WRITER.

Shows of that nature are written by Associate Producers (sometimes called 'Story Producers,' depending on the show) and sometimes the hosts themselves have input. But you bet your ass they are in fact carefully scripted. You don't just aim a camera at someone and hope they manage to get in all the good car bits in under 22 minutes. The stand ups are scripted and the packages are carefully scripted because they have to go into the edited package and fit a very specific amount of time for the show.
The Infinite Dunes
24-10-2007, 01:07
Erm, a script EDITOR not writer. Its not to edit a script, its to edit what they say. If it was scripted, it would have a script WRITER.You seriously believe that these people write their own material? Next you'll be claiming that everyone on HIGNFY wrote their own material despite their own production team only have a script supervisor.

For the record most script writers normally go uncredited as they are not a regular or exceptional member of the production team. Nor is there just one script writer. Look up 'spec scripts'.
Sel Appa
24-10-2007, 01:08
That show is awesome from the two clips I've watched.
Chumblywumbly
24-10-2007, 01:10
Next you’ll be claiming that everyone on HIGNFY wrote their own material despite their own production team only have a script supervisor.
That’s what’s so great about Annually Retentive.
Cannot think of a name
24-10-2007, 01:22
For the record most script writers normally go uncredited as they are not a regular or exceptional member of the production team. Nor is there just one script writer. Look up 'spec scripts'.
Magazine style shows like Top Gear don't have spec writers writing for them and most of the scripting is done, like I said, by associate producers. Those producers are responsible for the content of the segment they are put in charge of including length, composition, and script.

Spec scripts are done for narrative shows and at least in the US the WGA requires credit be given for those shows. The reason why you might not find them listed on an IMDb page is because as pointed out one show might have several writers responsible for different episodes, and in narrative shows this would include your spec writers who write a script before it is sold in the hopes of selling it. Star Trek was famous, for a while, for accepting spec scripts until the load and dealing with unprofessional writers (not in their content, but in how they understood the process) became too much.

However, I am lost as to how it matters one way or another whether it was scripted.
Turquoise Days
24-10-2007, 01:24
That show is awesome from the two clips I've watched.

You aint seen nothing yet.
Their magnum opus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdceEUas--U)
JuNii
24-10-2007, 01:32
However, I am lost as to how it matters one way or another whether it was scripted.

someone said the show wasn't scripted.

oh and the job of script writer (http://www.imdb.com/Glossary/S)
Script Editing
AKA: Script Editor, Script Doctor, Story Editor
A process whereby a script is reviewed and changed, based on input from various sources such as the director or producer. Writers who specialize in script editing are called "script doctors", and are frequently uncredited.
Peisandros
24-10-2007, 01:40
As TD says, pretty much every newspaper column and television show he’s been involved in.

At the end of this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=3eFnAWE7atA) clip, from a Top Gear special where Clarkson & co drive to the North Pole in a car (!), he says:

“they said we’d never get to the pole because of the damage the car has already done to the ice cap... the inconvenient truth is it doesn’t even appear to have scratched the surface”.

Presumably ‘they’ refers to those of us concerned about climate change — which is strange as ‘they’ never make any sort of claim in the show about whether or not a car could make it to the North Pole — but in this light, the entire program seems to be setting out to show how wonderful, and innocent, the car is.

Something he stresses in all his programs and columns.

Now, this shouldn’t get out of perspective; Jeremy Clarkson is just a twat with a big mouth and a strange eroticism for cars. But he’s a twat with a big mouth who a lot of people with a certain mindset (see: TBC’s comments above) seem to hail as some sort of prophet.

Worrying.

Sorry you still haven't shown a source were Clarkson states that he doesn't believe climate change to be real. More worrying is perhaps your inability to read and understand questions put forward to you.
Cannot think of a name
24-10-2007, 01:43
someone said the show wasn't scripted.



I saw that, I still don't know why it is supposed to matter to the discussion at hand.
Peisandros
24-10-2007, 01:50
Oh... And tell me Top Gear isn't awesome.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWoo82zNUA
Chumblywumbly
24-10-2007, 10:10
Sorry you still haven’t shown a source were Clarkson states that he doesn’t believe climate change to be real. More worrying is perhaps your inability to read and understand questions put forward to you.
Ignoring your brashness and, more importantly, pointing you to the video and comments I have just posted, I’ll take my leave.

First though, an amusing anecdote from Clarkson’s WikiP page: “[Top Gear won an] International Emmy in 2005, for the best non-scripted entertainment show that was not broadcast in the United States. Clarkson said: ”I didn’t attend the awards ceremony because I didn’t know that we had won, and I only found out after a 4am text message, whilst I was busy writing the script for the next show....".
CthulhuFhtagn
24-10-2007, 20:33
I'm guessing I'm the only one here who actually owns one.

I drive one, but I don't own it.
Soyut
24-10-2007, 20:50
Something interesting I heard form a power plant engineer:

More pollution is made when cars are made in the factory than all the exhaust the car will produce in its lifetime.

Hybrid cars really are quite pointless in my opinion.
Rubiconic Crossings
24-10-2007, 21:04
Erm, I was saying other as an alternative to the Prius. Other cars, that are European and are as good if not better

Fair enough...

I think the Japanese do quite well in the small car stakes...Europe is still mainly built for large cars. The space is there. Of course the amount of traffic has increased significantly in recent years and many cities have taken measures. All very good. Problem is Japan also has very fast public transport as well. So 3 hour car journeys take half the time via high speed trains. In Europe only France has a high speed train network. Germany has a few as well I think...to be honest I am not sure. England certainly does not! LOL

So its a question of infrastructure. If you are going to drive such distances often you don't want a pokey little car with no umph. Well I don't. I'm happy to take the train though.

Anyway. Fact is some think that the peak in oil has hit us and things are going to get dicey (http://www.guardian.co.uk/oil/story/0,,2196435,00.html).

So...I think I might look at getting a tank and a Mi-24 soon.

And a secret base. With a production line of over sized armoured dinky Toyota's....

Show me the $$$ !
Pure Metal
24-10-2007, 21:25
The Prius is pretty much the best you can get in the United States. There aren't any modern diesels (except for conversions and commercial trucks), and the kind of subcompacts you see in Europe aren't widely available due to safety concerns. 45 mpg is pretty damn good compared to the 15-20 mpg of SUVs and the fleet average of 27.5 miles per gallon for cars.
i own a new french diesel (2006 Peugeot HDI136) and i get about 41mpg on average. if we're talking just motorways it goes up to more like 50+, but i wasn't too sure what Clarkson was saying about modern diesels getting way better than 45. my dad's D5 volvo (2003) gets about 46mpg average. did he mean really modern... like made this year? or do we just have two very inefficient diesels :confused:

cos, basically, he was saying 45mpg like it was a bad thing.
still better than many cars

Oh... And tell me Top Gear isn't awesome.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWoo82zNUA

lol... saw it, laughed at his face..... want one now :D
Hydesland
24-10-2007, 21:27
I feel sorry for Americans, I don't know what I would do if I didn't have my top gear.
Lacadaemon
24-10-2007, 21:31
I feel sorry for Americans, I don't know what I would do if I didn't have my top gear.

Top Gear is on in the states. Just not on every cable company.