NationStates Jolt Archive

First off, I am not a paedophile and I strongly don't agree with children having sexual intercourse or child pornography of any kind.

Paedophilia isn't a modern thing, its been around forever like homosexuals and lesbians. Therefore, you could say it was a sexual orientation, but in todays society, its like, 'Don't even go there!'. In less devolped countries, boys and girls as young as 13 can get married. And in the past, all over the world people saw it as completely acceptable. So why is it any different today? Mabye because its outlawed so much that it drives people to rape. But surely if both parties agree then whats the big problem?

Now before the flaming starts, these are not my views. This is just an extract from an article I stumbled across.

forgive my imminent generalization [too tired to source] but many cultures that had pre-teen or early teen marriage also had very short life spans compared to our own and it was [is in some places] culturally acceptable - it would be unthinkable to many of us; however there are still places in the US where a very young girl can get married with her parents consent

paedophilia is quite profoundly different - while there may be many arguments against, to me the main issue is one of 'consent'

paedophiles are traditionally highly intelligent people with excellent interpersonal skills - it is not difficult for such a person to seduce a vulnerable child into 'consenting' to an act or relationship that they simply do not have the intellectual or emotional capacity to discern

a child is a child is a child is a child - not a sexual object, not a means for gratification because of an adult's stunted or warped sexuality. Many paedophiles claim that they are acting out of love for the child and that there is something pure about what they are doing. What a tragedy for all concerned and that is what paedophilia brings about - utter devastation and tragedy.

Mabye because its outlawed so much that it drives people to rape.
Are you actually suggesting that making it illegal to rape a 10 year old makes people more likely to rape 10 year olds?

Yeah yeah, it's "just something you read." Well, if you're not going to bother to think about what you read, then don't bother reading at all. Just go drool in front of the TV.

First off, I am not a paedophile and I strongly don't agree with children having sexual intercourse or child pornography of any kind.

Paedophilia isn't a modern thing, its been around forever like homosexuals and lesbians. Therefore, you could say it was a sexual orientation, but in todays society, its like, 'Don't even go there!'. In less devolped countries, boys and girls as young as 13 can get married. And in the past, all over the world people saw it as completely acceptable. So why is it any different today? Mabye because its outlawed so much that it drives people to rape. But surely if both parties agree then whats the big problem?
The problem is twofold:
1: The obvious fact that children cannot legally consent.
2: The less obvious, but much more important fact that a child's brain is simply not fully developed. A child may say they agree to something, but it is unlikely that they understand fully what they are agreeing too, because they are not physically capable.

Now before the flaming starts, these are not my views. This is just an extract from an article I stumbled across.

Link to this article? Also, you're expected to provide some commentary when you post an article.

First off, I am not a paedophile and I strongly don't agree with children having sexual intercourse or child pornography of any kind.

Paedophilia isn't a modern thing, its been around forever like homosexuals and lesbians. Therefore, you could say it was a sexual orientation, but in todays society, its like, 'Don't even go there!'. In less devolped countries, boys and girls as young as 13 can get married. And in the past, all over the world people saw it as completely acceptable. So why is it any different today? Mabye because its outlawed so much that it drives people to rape. But surely if both parties agree then whats the big problem?

Now before the flaming starts, these are not my views. This is just an extract from an article I stumbled across.

Simple really because a child is not mature enough to know what he or she is agreeing too.

By the same logic is it fine to let all 6 year olds vote?

Generally, paedophilia is defined as being attracted to children that are pre-pubescent i.e. below aged 13. Being attracted to teenagers that may or may not be sexually mature and are younger than the official age of consent is termed Ephebophilia (or Pedarasty in homosexual males).

The former is outlawed for good reason, the latter is more of a grey area (ages of consent varying widely in different cultures), but I'd suggest that an adult of greater than, say, 25 trying to have a relationship with an adolescent still has a huge range of problems concerning adult power abuse and giving consent. I don't think teenagers should ever be punished for experimenting sexually with each other, but when the age gap becomes too great then problems are going to be far too common to ignore. The laws exist to protect children and adolescents from abuse by adults.

Also, to argue by it being present in historical cultures is a bad idea. Past cultures have little bearing on our own. By the same argument, slavery used to be legal in many cultures therefore it's not too bad and should be ok now - see the problem?

http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/8balldoomed.jpg

<snip unpleasantness>

If you're not going to at least try to contribute to the thread then don't post. Please.

Generally, paedophilia is defined as being attracted to children that are pre-pubescent i.e. below aged 13. Being attracted to teenagers that may or may not be sexually mature and are younger than the official age of consent is termed Ephebophilia (or Pedarasty in homosexual males).

The former is outlawed for good reason, the latter is more of a grey area (ages of consent varying widely in different cultures), but I'd suggest that an adult of greater than, say, 25 trying to have a relationship with an adolescent still has a huge range of problems concerning adult power abuse and giving consent. I don't think teenagers should ever be punished for experimenting sexually with each other, but when the age gap becomes too great then problems are going to be far too common to ignore. The laws exist to protect children and adolescents from abuse by adults.

Also, to argue by it being present in historical cultures is a bad idea. Past cultures have little bearing on our own. By the same argument, slavery used to be legal in many cultures therefore it's not too bad and should be ok now - see the problem?
Ninja'ed me. But yeah, pedophilia =/= pederastry and/or ephebophilia.

There's a difference between someone having sexual intercourse with a sexually mature teenager, and someone abusing a child. The former can consent(at least where I live), the latter cannot.

Your wish is granted.

Ninja'ed me. But yeah, pedophilia =/= pederastry and/or ephebophilia.

There's a difference between someone having sexual intercourse with a sexually mature teenager, and someone abusing a child. The former can consent(at least where I live), the latter cannot.

There's also a difference between being a paedophile and abusing a child. Just like how there's a difference between being a common or garden heterosexual and being a rapist.

<snip>.

u mek mi laf 4 srsly.

No, I'm not kidding. You DO make me laugh. Your sheer idiocy is astounding.

It's also funny.

First off, I am not a paedophile and I strongly don't agree with children having sexual intercourse or child pornography of any kind.

Paedophilia isn't a modern thing, its been around forever like homosexuals and lesbians. Therefore, you could say it was a sexual orientation, but in todays society, its like, 'Don't even go there!'. In less devolped countries, boys and girls as young as 13 can get married. And in the past, all over the world people saw it as completely acceptable. So why is it any different today? Mabye because its outlawed so much that it drives people to rape. But surely if both parties agree then whats the big problem?

Now before the flaming starts, these are not my views. This is just an extract from an article I stumbled across.

sooooo you are suggesting that we should allow our children to be preyed upon by pervs to prevent rape? at least with rape you can send the bastards to jail. in your system we would have to look helplessly on as they abuse children.

There's also a difference between being a paedophile and abusing a child. Just like how there's a difference between being a common or garden heterosexual and being a rapist.

Good point. As long as someone never abuses a child, no crime is committed and no victim suffers. Hence, nothing morally wrong.

First off, I am not a paedophile and I strongly don't agree with children having sexual intercourse or child pornography of any kind.

Paedophilia isn't a modern thing, its been around forever like homosexuals and lesbians. Therefore, you could say it was a sexual orientation, but in todays society, its like, 'Don't even go there!'. In less devolped countries, boys and girls as young as 13 can get married. And in the past, all over the world people saw it as completely acceptable. So why is it any different today? Mabye because its outlawed so much that it drives people to rape. But surely if both parties agree then whats the big problem?

Now before the flaming starts, these are not my views. This is just an extract from an article I stumbled across.

Well, not to burst your bubble or anything; but sexual relations with a 13 year old is not "paedophilia"... considering most 13 year olds have entered puberty. Paedophilia is sexual attraction to a PREpubescent...

I thought Pedo Threads are banned.

I assume not, since the mods(well, one of them at least) is aware of this thread and hasn't smoten it.

Though this thread isn't going anywhere, so it wouldn't be much of a loss.

lets make this clear, I DO NOT SUGGEST THIS, its an article I found interesting, I just wanted to see other peoples reaction to it. Before you are going to argue with me that my views are disgusting, these are not my views, these are the views of 'D' from the letters page of my university's newspaper.

Should 16 year olds be considered mature teenagers? Do 15 year olds and 14 year olds suddenly go from not knowing what they want to coming to a deep understanding of everything?

I totaly agree with most of the points made here, like the fact that people used to live shorter, therefore marriage must be made earlier etc.

Personaly, if the thread was not full of people just angry at me for raising this subject, the thread might not be so 'doomed'.

lets make this clear, I DO NOT SUGGEST THIS, its an article I found interesting, I just wanted to see other peoples reaction to it. Before you are going to argue with me that my views are disgusting, these are not my views, these are the views of 'D' from the letters page of my university's newspaper.
You know most of us aren't going to start flaming you if you put forward a position we don't agree with. And if someone does, well that's what the mods are for.

Should 16 year olds be considered mature teenagers? Do 15 year olds and 14 year olds suddenly go from not knowing what they want to coming to a deep understanding of everything?
A mature teenager is still a teenager.


Personaly, if the thread was not full of people just angry at me for raising this subject, the thread might not be so 'doomed'.

Except there's nobody in the thread who is angry at you. There's one guy committing suicide by mod, but other than that it's a perfectly civil thread.

lets make this clear, I DO NOT SUGGEST THIS, its an article I found interesting, I just wanted to see other peoples reaction to it. Before you are going to argue with me that my views are disgusting, these are not my views, these are the views of 'D' from the letters page of my university's newspaper.

If 'D' is talking about teenagers as much as you are and still referring to "pedophilia", then 'D' doesn't know what he is talking about.

Should 16 year olds be considered mature teenagers? Do 15 year olds and 14 year olds suddenly go from not knowing what they want to coming to a deep understanding of everything?

This is all a matter of degree, really. Some 14 year olds are more mature than some 18 year olds. Age of consent and the like is set at an age at which we can expect that most people would have matured enough to handle the right/responsibility in question.

But, again, that has nothing to do with pedophilia.

I thought Pedo Threads are banned.
I thought so too, and believe this rule should be rigorously enforced.

In other words, my similar thread was banned as soon as it left the gate, and am bitter about it.

Paedophilia isn't a modern thing, its been around forever like homosexuals and lesbians. Therefore, you could say it was a sexual orientation, Whether or not it is a sexual orientation (and I doubt it is), it is not one simply because it's been around for a long time.

I thought Pedo Threads are banned.I thought so too, and believe this rule should be rigorously enforced.

In other words, my similar thread was banned as soon as it left the gate, and am bitter about it.

I didn't think pedophilia threads were banned outright, but I did think there was some limitation on them a while back (as there occasionally is on copycat threads), so I checked with a game mod while dealing with the suicide-by-mod bloke last night.

The answer was, as it often is, judgement call. Decide on the basis of the thread. This was, at that stage (just after Tekania's post), a perfectly reasonable discussion. I think it still is, now the litter has been cleaned out.

Sorry you're bitter, New Limacon, but you'll just have to deal with it.

Yeah yeah, it's "just something you read."

...y'know if there is going to be a workable thread about something so sensitive, it's probably wise to post the link to the original material or at least some form of source, it helps to clear up the issue of whose opinion it is, etc....

i don't think paedophilia is a sexual orientation - to me, it is a sexual abberation and children have the right to not have their childhoods complicated by an adult's dysfunction

a child is a child is a child is a child ...Should 16 year olds be considered mature teenagers?Well.. one of "my" :D Lawyers (Neo Art) told me that 16 or 17 years-olds are Children (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13159020&postcount=29) in the US.

So that should answer that question.

>> Not-EGOcentric DISCLAIMER: it answers it for the US only.. The Laws are usually different once you cross that imaginary line called border.. For example you dont need to be 21 to drink in Mexico >>

I don't see anyone supporting this. We're missing a good troll, eh?

Sorry you're bitter, New Limacon, but you'll just have to deal with it.

I'll just continue feeding off of my bile in Satis House, where my fiancée abandoned me on our wedding day forty years ago.

lets make this clear, I DO NOT SUGGEST THIS, its an article I found interesting, I just wanted to see other peoples reaction to it. Before you are going to argue with me that my views are disgusting, these are not my views, these are the views of 'D' from the letters page of my university's newspaper.
Reading comprehension isn't a strong point on this board. ;)

Should 16 year olds be considered mature teenagers? Do 15 year olds and 14 year olds suddenly go from not knowing what they want to coming to a deep understanding of everything?
Ages of consent are rather arbitrary, yes; however, it should be noted that in MOST PEOPLE, by age 16 they have started to fully command adult reasoning skills and can therefore be said to know what it is they are actually consenting to. Some teens get there earlier, and some later, but since we as a society don't bother with giving reasoning tests to teens for the purpose of seeing if they can consent to sex, 16 is a fairly good age.

Hmmm... Since nothing much is happening in this thread and the thread starter hasn't posted a link to the article (of which it is my personal opinion there is no such), I suppose it's up to me to be contrary to everyone else!

-- Paedophilia --
The desire for sexual activity with a child or children. The meaning of the word literally is "child love", and it can be a fetish (Something, such as a material object or a nonsexual part of the body, that arouses sexual desire and may become necessary for sexual gratification.) or a sexual orientation, in that an adult can experience sexual desire only for children which appear to be under a certain age, or have a certain quality or qualities that are child-like (such as rounded, "chipmunk" cheeks). It is a clinically recognized paraphilia. (this should clear up the doubt as to whether or not it is a sexual orientation of its own)

This is what paedophilia is. Whether or not someone should be considered disturbed in some way for holding those desires is up for debate. No research has been done into the subject, but it is theorized that a child in a non-abusive sexual encounter will not suffer trauma unless exposed to emotionally bound sentiments from outside sources that the act they participated in was wrong. This theory stems from the fact that sexual contact without abuse involved has not been shown to instigate traumatic disorders; only abuse has shown this.

-- Ephebophilia --
A relatively new word, less than 100 years old despite its Greek etymology. It is literally "pubescent love." Ephebophilia describes an attraction toward postpubescent individuals rather than prepubescent (pedo) individuals, and ephebophiliac thought oftentimes considers adolescents to no longer be children. This is supported by three things:
1. Children aged between 5 and 7 gain cognitive thought and with it advance from the first mental stage of life.
2. Children aged between 8 and 10 gain critical and analytical thought skills.
3. With the advent of puberty, a person becomes an adolescent and is capable of reproduction.

Although many "pre-teens" reach adolescence, it is not acceptable in any known (to my knowledge) cultures to pursue sexual relations with any person below the age of 14. Although it has been acceptable in many cultures and religions throughout history, modern concern seems to be that without fully grasping the ramifications of their actions, a person cannot give consent.

-- Legality --
As above: Although it has been acceptable in many cultures and religions throughout history, modern concern seems to be that without fully grasping the ramifications of their actions, a person cannot give consent.

This concern in and of itself is fallacious in that an understanding of the possibility of pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, and social stigma is not a matter of maturity; it is something that a person of any age can be taught and also is something that it is possible to not know and understand when one is well beyond the age at which, legally, one is expected to know and understand.

By the age of 12 the human brain has advanced sufficiently in a human without genetic, chemical, or physical brain damage to form comprehension, logical thought, intuitive thought, and critical analysis. A human aged 12 years (excepting brain damage as stated above) has the capacity to know and understand the possibility of pregnancy, sexually transmitted disease, and social stigma, and what the long-term effects of those things could be.

-- My View --

I personally do not believe that the age of consent should be 12; nor do I think that a 30 year old person should be able to manipulate a young teenager into intercourse. But that is my morality speaking - the arguments brought against ephebophilia are nothing short of ridiculous. There is no basis of fact in them. The human brain is sufficiently developed to hold and analyze the knowledge that is said to be absent until a later stage of maturity. Maturity has nothing to do with it - I am 20 years old, and my significant other, who will be 21 in two weeks, is less mature than any single 15 year old of either gender that I personally know. I would extend that age further, but there is one 14-year old (a male cousin of mine) who acts his shoe size at all times. Maturity and sexual maturity are two different things, and every adolescent has sexual maturity if not maturity.