NationStates Jolt Archive

I always wanted to make a thread about making money to be able to share some wisdom and hopefully help out others in their endeavors. So please share any ways in which you have been able to make a decent amount of money and give details so that others can learn. I always believe in a hand up over a hand out for people. I personally have made a decent amount of money in my life and I will share in this thread a few main areas where I have made the majority of my money.

find a way to have multiple sources of income. Every rich person I know has more than one source of income. Moonlight.

Also, network, it may seem smarmy but those who succeed are those who have a rep of being successful. Work hard, do your job better than anyone else, and let everyone know about it.

Investments. Secure GICs. Money goes in, more money comes out. :)

I always wanted to make a thread about making money to be able to share some wisdom and hopefully help out others in their endeavors. So please share any ways in which you have been able to make a decent amount of money and give details so that others can learn. I always believe in a hand up over a hand out for people. I personally have made a decent amount of money in my life and I will share in this thread a few main areas where I have made the majority of my money.
Liquidate all your holdings and when the market crashes, buy, buy, buy!! Just like the Rockefellers did way back in 1929.

MARKET CRASH as PROCESS (http://gorillaradioblog.blogspot.com/2007/08/market-crash-as-process.html)

Real estate in my opinion is tops in most millionaires bag of tricks. I personally have made well over a million net already in real estate without doing anything extraordinary. I will point out a couple ways and anyone want to add please do.


Rental property:

This can be very lucrative and has made me the most in real estate. Most people will not bother with renters because they believe it is a hassle. The hassle is well worth it in my opinion. I am going to give a example here and ask questions if you do not get it. You need only to have a decent credit score and job to do this method that I employ. If one were to buy a home for lets say $150,000 at 100% financing your payment would be $997 + taxes & Ins. at 5.75%. You may not be able to rent for the P&I with taxes and ins. Let's assume a per year 3.5% increase in property values. That means your property will be worth 163,909 in 3 years. That is an increase of over $4000 a year. On a investment of $0 that is not a bad return. But wait if you could not rent that home for the $1100 approx. that you would have as a payment you would be most likely negative of only a $100 if you choose right. Again raise rents at minimum the rise in inflation of about 3.5% a year. That means if you were to charge $1000 year one the second year would be $1035. After 3 years you would be breaking even and then raise every year after that. Your negative cash flow for the first year would be $1200 but the property increased $4000! You are still ahead and over the years it will even out and be a positive cash flow. Keep in mind that with a min 3.5% avg gain over the years combined with the pay down of the mortgage by the renters will gain you about an 8-9% return on the initial purchase price. You get 10 of these for example and you can easily see how money piles up. I also have owned rental for 14 years now. I never and I mean never had a major expense in any given year fixing one particular house that would have put me at a net loss for any given year on the property. There are horror stories out there with rentals but very rarely do they mean a net loss on the property. With risk comes rewards.

Note: When it comes to financing if you cannot get traditional loans because of your debt to income ratio's try doing stated income and be a bit more careful on your calculations for each property.



Building homes:

I have learned fairly recently first hand that this can be the most lucrative of ways in real estate. Will give you some basics for my particular area. Now rule number one is build in an area that is selling homes. Rural Michigan vs metro Seattle are two completely different animals. So do your homework on where you build. Will give you an example of a project I started last month in the city of Tacoma about 30 miles south of Seattle. The housing market is decent and expect to do well with this property. I bought a 10,000 sq ft property for the complete cost of $48,000. I am building a 5 bedroom 2700+ sq ft home on this property from a low cost builder at $114,000 finished. I have about $17,000 in other costs with power, sewer and a bit of landscaping. My projected total costs for this property will be $179,000. This property will be worth close to $300,000 when done. Even with the costs of selling this property I should have a gross of a bit over $100,000. Even if I were to pay capital gains on this at the full rate I would be still ahead. From start to end this project will take 6 months. Do two of these a year and you will not have another money worry in your life. Again make sure you do your homework on the area, property and the builder.


Any questions please ask.

find a way to have multiple sources of income. Every rich person I know has more than one source of income. Moonlight.

Also, network, it may seem smarmy but those who succeed are those who have a rep of being successful. Work hard, do your job better than anyone else, and let everyone know about it.

Very good advice Smunkee and will second this. I have 3 main lines of income. As far as friends I pick and choose. I do not hang around people that do not have drive and waste my time.

Liquidate all your holdings and when the market crashes, buy, buy, buy!! Just like the Rockefellers did way back in 1929.

MARKET CRASH as PROCESS (http://gorillaradioblog.blogspot.com/2007/08/market-crash-as-process.html)

Not everyone did bad in the depression. ;)

As a college student I don't make a lot of money, but like other people said real estate investment seems like a good idea. I like to read john reed's advice. http://www.johntreed.com

Real estate in my opinion is tops in most millionaires bag of tricks. I personally have made well over a million net already in real estate without doing anything extraordinary. I will point out a couple ways and anyone want to add please do.
This is really not a good time to be jumping into the unstable real estate market?

Stock market bubble ready to burst (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55443)?

Bob Chapman, who publishes a biweekly Internet newsletter, The International Forecaster, http://www.theinternationalforecaster.com/ told his 100,000 worldwide subscribers that, "We are facing the biggest decline in housing values since the 1930s and nobody gets it yet. In former hot markets, prices will fall 15 percent to 25 percent this year and more next year as the tragedy plays out."

Chapman continued to predict a collapse in the heavily leveraged $1.4 trillion dollar unregulated hedge fund market and in the little-understood derivative market where leveraged exposure may be as high as $500 trillion.

Chapman advised his subscribers that gold was one of the few secure asset classes he was recommending for investors.

An article in TheStreet.com credited legendary value investor, Jeremy Grantham – "the man Dick Cheney, plus a lot of other rich people, trusts with his money" – as saying we are experiencing "the first worldwide bubble in history covering all asset classes."
Buy gold instead?

Rob older people. Works every time. :D

This is really not a good time to be jumping into the unstable real estate market?



Buy gold instead?

I bought a bunch of gold a couple years back. Yeah it did well. Remember you always want to be on the begining of a trend rather then the end. I believe that is where gold is.


As far as real estate, rentals are still going to be a good deal because of the fact interest rates are going to go through the roof at sometime over the next couple years. Rentals always do better with higher interest rates due to the fact that people will not be buying homes.

As far as building homes you have an advantage over a owner trying to sell an existing home. Remember your home is "new", your home you built also can be tailored to the buyer if you sell it during construction. They can pick appliances, paint, flooring etc. Also you have leverage on price due to the fact that you have a decent equity. You can undercut other standard home sellers in the area without really hurting yourself to much. The last thing is you can carry part of the contract (10% 5 yr balloon with 30yr am.) to help sell it if need be. You will still make money but some of it will be delayed.

Last thing I have noticed is the real estate bubble was not the same around the US. California was hit the worst. Where I live prices held steady for the most part and have not gone down however they have not gone up to much either. This may change and again do your homework on where you do real estate. Not every area is equal.

This is really not a good time to be jumping into the unstable real estate market?

Stock market bubble ready to burst (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55443)?

Buy gold instead?

Nah, the Fed/ECB/BOE rate cuts and liquidity injections helped stave off a crash and probably saved the US economy from sliding in to a recession. They may need to cut again, but I don't think it is a good idea unless it's clear the inflation rate will begin falling again. Their timing was good, to say the least.

Really, it's commodities that look like they're entering a bubble...oil alone is so divorced from reality right now it's hard to believe it's not going to crash hard and fast. Same is true of the metals, especially gold, copper and silver, and even the food crops are rising despite excellent harvest projections for crops like sugar, soybeans, and wheat. The commodities bull market is near the end of its cycle, so unless you're willing to really pay attention to the market and trade frequently you're going to be burned. Volatility is soaring and the sectors that are doing well are displaying more and more irrational exuberance as opposed to the fundamental justifications of earlier in the cycle.

Personally, I'd hold the majority of my investments in bonds and money market funds at this time and begin shifting in to stocks after the first quarter of next year. Stay away from real estate, obviously, unless you're in the commercial properties market (or are willing to gamble on a sudden recovery) and focus on "safe" sectors with the majority of risk coming from investments in emerging markets.

I bought a bunch of gold a couple years back. Yeah it did well. Remember you always want to be on the begining of a trend rather then the end. I believe that is where gold is.

As far as real estate, rentals are still going to be a good deal because of the fact interest rates are going to go through the roof at sometime over the next couple years. Rentals always do better with higher interest rates due to the fact that people will not be buying homes.

As far as building homes you have an advantage over a owner trying to sell an existing home. Remember your home is "new", your home you built also can be tailored to the buyer if you sell it during construction. They can pick appliances, paint, flooring etc. Also you have leverage on price due to the fact that you have a decent equity. You can undercut other standard home sellers in the area without really hurting yourself to much. The last thing is you can carry part of the contract (10% 5 yr balloon with 30yr am.) to help sell it if need be. You will still make money but some of it will be delayed.

Last thing I have noticed is the real estate bubble was not the same around the US. California was hit the worst. Where I live prices held steady for the most part and have not gone down however they have not gone up to much either. This may change and again do your homework on where you do real estate. Not every area is equal.
If you have over invested in real estate, you could be in trouble?

Warnings mount over U.S. housing slump (http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071016.wpaulson1016/GIStory/)

WASHINGTON — U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Board chief Ben Bernanke and have acknowledged the housing slump isn't nearly over, rekindling economic gloom on Wall Street.

In his starkest take yet on the housing and credit mess, Mr. Paulson called the situation “troubling” and warned the crisis would take “some time yet” to ease.

“Despite strong economic fundamentals, the housing decline is still unfolding, and I view it as the most significant risk to our economy,” Mr. Paulson said Tuesday in speech at Georgetown University in Washington.

“The longer housing prices remain stagnant or fall, the greater the penalty to our future economic growth.”

......“The housing market is choking on unsold inventory that continues to rise as homes sales plunge and foreclosures surge,” he said.

The mood of home builders sank to its lowest level yet in September, according to the U.S. National Association of Home Builders monthly index. Tighter credit conditions and weak demand are the main cause.

There are 2.5 million homes sitting vacant across the United States. The only way to work off the inventory is for prices to come down enough to make homes affordable again, Mr. Zandi said.
Even with rental properties, if the economy continues to decline, there will be increased unemployment and less ability for people to pay their rents.

If you have over invested in real estate, you could be in trouble?



Even with rental properties, if the economy continues to decline, there will be increased unemployment and less ability for people to pay their rents.

I haven't over invested at all. My equity position in my properties is around 50%. The economy would have to do a complete collapse before I got worried. As far as rentals they will always be in demand in the areas where I have them. My income flow will remain even if property prices plunge. If demand went down I still have enough room to adjust to regain renters if need be.

Also wanted to add a side note if one could not sell a home they build they could always rent it. If you built to rent you would have instant cash flow.

Another thing is be wary of the doom and gloom reports out there. Always do your homework and be smart about what you get into. I noticed in my life that media can be manipulated to increase wealth of certain peoples out there.

Even with rental properties, if the economy continues to decline, there will be increased unemployment and less ability for people to pay their rents.

This is why I say be careful where you have your properties. Buy your property in an area that has had steady growth for years. Don't buy in general in Detroit as an example. The area you do this in should be picked very carefully.

This is why I say be careful where you have your properties. Buy your property in an area that has had steady growth for years. Don't buy in general in Detroit as an example. The area you do this in should be picked very carefully.
Well good luck with your real estate investments. Despite our differences in the past, I surely bode no ill will towards you. :)

Well good luck with your real estate investments. Despite our differences in the past, I surely bode no ill will towards you. :)

Well Canuck whatever our differences on here as far as politics go I don't take it to seriously. In the end everyone is just trying to survive in this world. I always am willing to lend my advice to someone who wants to listen if they are Libertarian, Republican or Democrat.

Anyone have advice about making money doing something that isn't supposed to make a lot of money, like illustration? Not everyone can be a real estate investor.

Anyone have advice about making money doing something that isn't supposed to make a lot of money, like illustration? Not everyone can be a real estate investor.

Everyone can be a real estate investor but it may not be everyone's interest. ;)

As far as illustration I don't know of anyone getting rich off of it personally. However if that is really your passion I would suggest finding another investment vehicle to get to a point where you can do that full time and not worry about how you are going to pay the mortgage and feed the kids.

If you want to make money, do something worth the money.

Invest in yourself - pick up extra skills and education to get better jobs. This all depends on just how devoted you are to making a better life for yourself.

Find a market opportunity and exploit it. I found one, so I started a business to sell my stuff. Work hard at it, make wise decisions, and you will succeed. Make bad decisions and your business will go under (happens all the time - see previous poster and their 'work multiple jobs' advice - provides good insurance against losing any one source of income).

Do not, I repeat, do not fall for that crap you see in infomercials about how to get rich quick.

If you have the ability to make the initial capital investment, buy some property. Spend a lot of time researching the market, then buy a property you think is undervalued. Look for mortgage foreclosures and try to pick one up cheap - but do not get caught up in the bidding war and spend more than your cold rational evaluation of the property. If you can do the labor yourself, building or improving houses is very lucrative.

Just working a weekend job can boost your income quite a bit.

Learn how to make handmade soap or other little crafty things - spend the weekends going around to all the little farmers markets and craft fairs selling handmade soap or little crafts or anything. It will take a long time to start making any real money doing that, but it helps. Eventually you might get a good reputation and make most of your money selling off the website, then those craft fairs are more about advertising than making money. Keep your down home on the farm kind of image, even though you live and make soaps in Manhattan, and it is worth your weight in gold. It does take a very long time and lots of dedication to get there though, but if youre willing to put in the time and effort, it will pay off.

There are countless opportunities if you are just willing to put in the effort and take a chance.

Everyone can be a real estate investor but it may not be everyone's interest. ;)

As far as illustration I don't know of anyone getting rich off of it personally. However if that is really your passion I would suggest finding another investment vehicle to get to a point where you can do that full time and not worry about how you are going to pay the mortgage and feed the kids.
I rent several properties The only drawback is dealing with bad tenants. It's nice to have a source of equity to draw on when one or the other property needs a roof, or paint, or some other large maintenance project.

My favorite property to rent is the 10 acres of farmland that I rent to a neighbor. There's a really low maintenance piece of real-estate.

I rent several properties The only drawback is dealing with bad tenants. It's nice to have a source of equity to draw on when one or the other property needs a roof, or paint, or some other large maintenance project.

My favorite property to rent is the 10 acres of farmland that I rent to a neighbor. There's a really low maintenance piece of real-estate.

A good tenant is worth their weight in gold. In fact one of my handymen is a tenant and worth 10X what I pay the guy. One thing I learned very quick is not to rent to people I know. If the person is a stranger it makes it easier to serve an eviction.

I rent several properties The only drawback is dealing with bad tenants. It's nice to have a source of equity to draw on when one or the other property needs a roof, or paint, or some other large maintenance project.

.

You hit on something very important I did not mention in my original post about real estate. I personally believe that having a source of equity to draw off as the persons own home is very important. The reason I say that is because it is far more expensive to draw from credit cards then ones home. If you are going down the real estate path I would strongly suggest having something in reserve in case of emergency.

A good tenant is worth their weight in gold. In fact one of my handymen is a tenant and worth 10X what I pay the guy. One thing I learned very quick is not to rent to people I know. If the person is a stranger it makes it easier to serve an eviction.
As easy as it can be... I think it takes about 5 or 6 months in Georgia, from the time the first rent payment is missed until the Sheriff serves the eviction notice. Even then, landlords can't just throw the belongings on the curb. We have to rent storage units for the evicted tenants.

As easy as it can be... I think it takes about 5 or 6 months in Georgia, from the time the first rent payment is missed until the Sheriff serves the eviction notice. Even then, landlords can't just throw the belongings on the curb. We have to rent storage units for the evicted tenants.

Seems every jurisdiction is different. You can throw things to the curb where I live. Make sure your screening process is as good as it can be but there are ones that slip through. I personally have only evicted one person in 14 years. Maybe luck or maybe skill at finding good tenants, I don't know 100%.

Seems every jurisdiction is different. You can throw things to the curb where I live. Make sure your screening process is as good as it can be but there are ones that slip through. I personally have only evicted one person in 14 years. Maybe luck or maybe skill at finding good tenants, I don't know 100%.
I've never evicted anyone, we've come to a mutual understanding on the only occasion it might have been necessary -- they left, I kept the deposit and gave them a very bad credit report entry. Even that was hard. I don't belong to a credit union, so I had to find a landlord co-op, of sorts, to get access to the credit bureaus.

Another way that I make money is I am part owner of what is called a FMO. That stands for Field Marketing Organization. What we do is Medicare and Medicaid supplements. We have a staff of about 40 agents.

A person only has to have their state insurance license to sell these kind of policies. Outside of that the skill set needed is basically of a good salesperson. No college or university degree's required. In fact if you are an agent for us we pay out $300 per application submitted. A couple can net you $600. It does not take that long for an appointment, about an hour or so. A good salesman working in the enrollment periods of Nov 15 - Mar 31 can make between $50k and well over $100k per year. My suggestion to anyone interested to find an FMO that you can sell United Health care plans. They are the easiest plans to sell and by far that is what we sign the most people on.

Another way that I make money is I am part owner of what is called a FMO. That stands for Field Marketing Organization. What we do is Medicare and Medicaid supplements. We have a staff of about 40 agents.

A person only has to have their state insurance license to sell these kind of policies. Outside of that the skill set needed is basically of a good salesperson. No college or university degree's required. In fact if you are an agent for us we pay out $300 per application submitted. A couple can net you $600. It does not take that long for an appointment, about an hour or so. A good salesman working in the enrollment periods of Nov 15 - Mar 31 can make between $50k and well over $100k per year. My suggestion to anyone interested to find an FMO that you can sell United Health care plans. They are the easiest plans to sell and by far that is what we sign the most people on.


But it is a hamburger-job. And I don’t believe in ponzi market schemes.

Even if you are making the hell of money, I still would not be interested in your job.

I’m a usability engineer and my tasks are very diverse. I have to use several skills and I meet a lot of real interesting people.

I’m working as an employee for a company and I’m earning 3,000 euro/month netto after taxes. I have a car and unlimited fuel card from the company, I have insurance-, healthcare- and retirements plans from the company.

This is all worth is about 4000 euro a month. So that’s giving me an income of 48,000 euro a year.

While it is good money, I’m not satisfied with this, so I decided to become an independent freelancer. I will start in December (then I have a first short account year, which is nice for tax reasons :p)

I’ll make about 8000 euro netto each month (so 96,000 euro/year). It’s good money, but it will not make me rich (or I shouldn’t spend anything :p).

The question is: should I be rich? That’s not my goal in life. I want a balance in a good life, good money, family, hobbies and posting meaningless postings on this board. :)

The few rich people I know, don't have a life with lots of fun.

But it is a hamburger-job. And I don’t believe in ponzi market schemes.

Even if you are making the hell of money, I still would not be interested in your job..

Lol, you do not understand what we do. We help people sign up for government benefits at a reduced cost to them. It actually saves a lot of money for senior citizens. Has nothing to do with Ponzi marketing schemes.


I’m a usability engineer and my tasks are very diverse. I have to use several skills and I meet a lot of real interesting people.

I’m working as an employee for a company and I’m earning 3,000 euro/month netto after taxes. I have a car and unlimited fuel card from the company, I have insurance-, healthcare- and retirements plans from the company.

This is all worth is about 4000 euro a month. So that’s giving me an income of 48,000 euro a year.

While it is good money, I’m not satisfied with this, so I decided to become an independent freelancer. I will start in December (then I have a first short account year, which is nice for tax reasons :p)

I’ll make about 8000 euro netto each month (so 96,000 euro/year). It’s good money, but it will not make me rich (or I shouldn’t spend anything :p).

The question is: should I be rich? That’s not my goal in life. I want a balance in a good life, good money, family, hobbies and posting meaningless postings on this board. :)

The few rich people I know, don't have a life with lots of fun.

Good for you on your job. Also want to note what I do for a living is to maximize my time off. Real-estate really doesn't take to much time. The Medicare insurance industry really is only in full swing Nov-15 thru Mar 31. That leaves me with a lot of time on my hands in the summer. Our family goes to Morocco every year for at least a month. This year it was almost two months. Anyway my point is that one does not have to use all their time making money. If one does it wisely they will leave plenty of time for themselves.

Russian counterfeiters operating out of Finland.

Well, one day I woke up and I was massively talented. This was no great shock, having been massively talented the previous day as well. My massive amounts of talent were converted into an equal amount of dollars.

I hope this helps.

Russian counterfeiters operating out of Finland.

HeHe, well I am talking legal dealings here but there is a way to make money printing your own real money.

http://www.bankofantarctica.com/index.php

I talked with one of the men running this. He said he has made a decent living with this. I called him so my son could ask him questions for a school project he was doing.

Well, one day I woke up and I was massively talented. This was no great shock, having been massively talented the previous day as well. My massive amounts of talent were converted into an equal amount of dollars.

I hope this helps.

That helped massively.

I guess my way is booring but stable ...

Actually it is probably understandable from the working class family I come from ...

I work

I work a lot

I found a job in which pays me for the time I am willing to put in (So focused on non salary) I moved to a small company which NEEDS 110 from EACH person but is big enough to be able to comfortably pay me all the over time I can handle.

I am not rich comming out of college (no loans but no real savings) but I am making a good ammount (not GREAT by nationwide standards about 65 K a year) but with cost of living so damn low in the area that is a LOT of money for here.

Booring I know

Probably not too helpfull but I am proud lol

I guess my way is booring but stable ...

Actually it is probably understandable from the working class family I come from ...

I work

I work a lot

I found a job in which pays me for the time I am willing to put in (So focused on non salary) I moved to a small company which NEEDS 110 from EACH person but is big enough to be able to comfortably pay me all the over time I can handle.

I am not rich comming out of college (no loans but no real savings) but I am making a good ammount (not GREAT by nationwide standards about 65 K a year) but with cost of living so damn low in the area that is a LOT of money for here.

Booring I know

Probably not too helpfull but I am proud lol

If it is a low cost area and you are making above the national average of 50k a year then that is good. The key is to make sure you put all the blood, sweat and tears into making your life better by investing. I have a good friend that is a hospital administrator. She makes an absolute ton of money. She still rents a condo. Her problem is booze and alcohol. It almost sickens me the amount of money she has pissed away. She could have parlayed all that money into something really worthwhile by now.

That helped massively.

Good. I hope you'll become massively talented and quit whining about rental property on message boards

not a many ways listed for making money (a few on the site though)


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/index.html?


UK based site so not relevant for all

If it is a low cost area and you are making above the national average of 50k a year then that is good. The key is to make sure you put all the blood, sweat and tears into making your life better by investing. I have a good friend that is a hospital administrator. She makes an absolute ton of money. She still rents a condo. Her problem is booze and alcohol. It almost sickens me the amount of money she has pissed away. She could have parlayed all that money into something really worthwhile by now.

I have some expensive hobbies like my jeep but they are well within my means other then that so far its been finishing off my car and truck loan (which are now done ... in under 2 years) and the plan is to put about 25 grand in the bank to start with then purchase a house and start working that up and working its value up getting some equity put away

Probably wont happen for about 2 years to get things set so I can comfortably do it but it will happen

Good. I hope you'll become massively talented and quit whining about rental property on message boards

Why? there is whining about everything from theology to computers on this board ... why not a discussion of this type?

I have some expensive hobbies like my jeep but they are well within my means other then that so far its been finishing off my car and truck loan (which are now done ... in under 2 years) and the plan is to put about 25 grand in the bank to start with then purchase a house and start working that up and working its value up getting some equity put away

Probably wont happen for about 2 years to get things set so I can comfortably do it but it will happen

I think there should always be something fun that you have. Sounds like your Jeep is it. As far as the rest of your plans it sounds good. Are you interested in going the real estate investment route or just happy with one home and some other type of investment vehicle?

Good. I hope you'll become massively talented and quit whining about rental property on message boards

Whining? What the hell are you going on about? If you don't like a post then don't respond to it. If you had not noticed this is General which means General discussion. As far as being talented I am in making money.

I think there should always be something fun that you have. Sounds like your Jeep is it. As far as the rest of your plans it sounds good. Are you interested in going the real estate investment route or just happy with one home and some other type of investment vehicle?

One home ... keep my retirement savings going and in 5 or 6 years look for another investment vehicle

My starting wage is 65 ... In 5 years if it is less then 80 I would be suprised ... I should have room for solid investment as well as having myself settled ... I am only 24 so I think I am getting a good start lol

Hell I am by far the youngest person in the company (reguardless of position) ... I think I am doing pretty well :)

One home ... keep my retirement savings going and in 5 or 6 years look for another investment vehicle

My starting wage is 65 ... In 5 years if it is less then 80 I would be suprised ... I should have room for solid investment as well as having myself settled ... I am only 24 so I think I am getting a good start lol

Hell I am by far the youngest person in the company (reguardless of position) ... I think I am doing pretty well :)

Good for you and hope you do well. I should warn you on finding the right woman so you don't get all that taken away someday. That is an entirely different thread though.

Good for you and hope you do well. I should warn you on finding the right woman so you don't get all that taken away someday. That is an entirely different thread though.

I will work on that :) I have a TONE of friends going through that now ... so many of my friends were the marry right out of highschool sort ... 6 years later we are starting to see why marrying at 18 may not be the best idea.

This is why I say be careful where you have your properties. Buy your property in an area that has had steady growth for years. Don't buy in general in Detroit as an example. The area you do this in should be picked very carefully.

One of my friends is considering buying a house in Detroit, mainly because it's within walking distance of Ford Field and it costs somewhere around $5,000. Mainly, he wants it for a convenient parking space.

But then, this guy is buying a house in rural Michigan, which you also indirectly advised against. Of course, he lives in rural Michigan, but still...

Whining? What the hell are you going on about? If you don't like a post then don't respond to it. If you had not noticed this is General which means General discussion. As far as being talented I am in making money.

Who the hell cares? It's so boring. How about making money off the back of a real talent?

Who the hell cares? It's so boring. How about making money off the back of a real talent?

Thats how I am doing it ... yet it still is not a bad idea even if you are investing in only your own home to know SOMETHING about the effects that it can have on your net workth

Ugh... I absolutely loathe real estate speculation.

Avoid credit-pay cash for everything. If you need credit, you can't afford it. Land is a great investment-always. Look at your monthly bills-if you're paying them, so is everyone else. Good investment. Only play with money you don't know what to do with-if it's covering your expenses, you know what to do with it. You won't make strides, but you will move forward.

Avoid credit-pay cash for everything. If you need credit, you can't afford it. Land is a great investment-always. Look at your monthly bills-if you're paying them, so is everyone else. Good investment. Only play with money you don't know what to do with-if it's covering your expenses, you know what to do with it. You won't make strides, but you will move forward.

I put LOTS on to credit

For 2 great reasons
1) 3 percent goes directly to the local marching band (special deal we setup as a fund raiser)

2) I do EVERYTHING electronic

Now that is with the proviso that I have plenty of money and it is all paid off each month lol

Ugh... I absolutely loathe real estate speculation.

So do banks now.

So do banks now.

Yes, curiously, people don't like investments when they lose the money. Just remember to keep an eye out for the cover of Time so you know when to sell.

Yes, curiously, people don't like investments when they lose the money. Just remember to keep an eye out for the cover of Time so you know when to sell.

Time is a world beating real life troll. At this point it has to be deliberate.

Time is a world beating real life troll. At this point it has to be deliberate.

Yeah, they've got a 100% success rate so far. I need to keep an eye out for a cover about the commodities boom...

Yeah, they've got a 100% success rate so far. I need to keep an eye out for a cover about the commodities boom...

I don't think enough people own commodities for it to provide the type of trolly fun that Time so clearly enjoys.

I don't think enough people own commodities for it to provide the type of trolly fun that Time so clearly enjoys.

Well, a lot of retirement funds have been putting money in to commodities as an inflation hedge (avoiding the ironic fact that increased demand for said commodities is a primary driver of inflaiton), so it may not be implausible in as the secular commodities bull market approaches its top in the next three years or so. Honestly, the way the commodities market is going, it looks like irrational exuberance is pushing the markets up in to a bubble-esque climb. It should be interesting to see how it goes...I have a feeling $100 oil will be the Nasdaq 5000 of this market.

Lol, you do not understand what we do. We help people sign up for government benefits at a reduced cost to them. It actually saves a lot of money for senior citizens. Has nothing to do with Ponzi marketing schemes.


You help people? Sure. :)

Let me guess, you get a commission for every service/product you sell?
You get a commission if you can find another loser that will sell for you?
You get a commission for every service/product this loser will sell?
You get a commission if your loser can find another loser that will sell for you?
You get a commission for every service/product the loser his loser will sell?
And they promised you that you'll be rich by doing almost nothing, isn't?
And you are promising this, to your losers, isn't?
...

It's something like that, isn't? And maybe it's a little different. I saw already dozen variants, but the basic remains the same.

It was already introduced, using these titles:

• Pyramid scheme
• Multi-Level Marketing
• Party Plan
• High-yield investment programs
• Matrix Scheme
• Network Marketing
• ...

And you call it Field Marketing Organization…

I call it Ponzi.

You help people? Sure. :)

Let me guess, you get a commission for every service/product you sell?
You get a commission if you can find another loser that will sell for you?
You get a commission for every service/product this loser will sell?
You get a commission if your loser can find another loser that will sell for you?
You get a commission for every service/product the loser his loser will sell?
And they promised you that you'll be rich by doing almost nothing, isn't?
And you are promising this, to your losers, isn't?
...

It's something like that, isn't? And maybe it's a little different. I saw already dozen variants, but the basic remains the same.

It was already introduced, using these titles:

• Pyramid scheme
• Multi-Level Marketing
• Party Plan
• High-yield investment programs
• Matrix Scheme
• Network Marketing
• ...

And you call it Field Marketing Organization…

I call it Ponzi.


Again you have no idea what it is do you? This is a tightly controlled industry by the Federal government. There are hundreds of hours of classes just on ethics. So before you talk out your ass about this particular business know what the hell you are talking about. This is government health care not some fly by night multi-level scheme.

If you are from the Netherlands as your bio depicts then I understand why you don't know. You do not have this industry in your country. I would suggest if you want to continue to post about this learn at least what I am talking about because you are making yourself look like a fool.

3 words:
Chinese
Stock
Market

It's gone up over 300% in the last year. And realistically it'll keep going up for at least another year before any major correction. Even the worst Chinese fund investment portfolios are reporting 100+% ytd returns.
Another option if it's still possible is subscribe to Alibaba share offer. mark my words - when it opens, first day share prices'll rise 80+%.

Again you have no idea what it is do you? This is a tightly controlled industry by the Federal government. There are hundreds of hours of classes just on ethics. So before you talk out your ass about this particular business know what the hell you are talking about. This is government health care not some fly by night multi-level scheme.

If you are from the Netherlands as your bio depicts then I understand why you don't know. You do not have this industry in your country. I would suggest if you want to continue to post about this learn at least what I am talking about because you are making yourself look like a fool.

Why didn't you answer my question?

And do you have a clue how many ponzi schemes are 'approved' by some government.

Also 'decent' companies use Pyramid Schemes, like Tupperware, Hamburg-Mannheimer...

Why didn't you answer my question?

And do you have a clue how many ponzi schemes are 'approved' by some government.

Also 'decent' companies use Pyramid Schemes, like Tupperware, Hamburg-Mannheimer...

Why don't you figure out what you are responding to before you respond. When you can come back with something relevant or intelligent about the discussion at hand then I will respond to you.

3 words:
Chinese
Stock
Market

It's gone up over 300% in the last year. And realistically it'll keep going up for at least another year before any major correction. Even the worst Chinese fund investment portfolios are reporting 100+% ytd returns.
Another option if it's still possible is subscribe to Alibaba share offer. mark my words - when it opens, first day share prices'll rise 80+%.

I know Alibaba well. That should be a good one.

Avoid credit-pay cash for everything. If you need credit, you can't afford it. Land is a great investment-always. Look at your monthly bills-if you're paying them, so is everyone else. Good investment. Only play with money you don't know what to do with-if it's covering your expenses, you know what to do with it. You won't make strides, but you will move forward.

Problem is that you need to use credit to gain credit. It can be a dangerous thing if not handled well. I would apply your opinion to specifically revolving credit. There can be what some term good credit such as a mortgage where it is on an asset most likely to appreciate then to depreciate such as a car or even worse that evening out with the wife that was put on the charge card.

Ugh... I absolutely loathe real estate speculation.

I loathe speculation as well. At least the monthly one year type. I am not a turn and burn guy. I say if one is interested get a rental portfolio or build and sell. Getting into real estate should be looked at as a long term investment. The longer the term the better. Smooths out the highs and lows in the market better.

Find a unique need you can fill and feel passionate about. Then risk your entire life savings, 15 hour days every day and any other avaliable resource pursuing it. If you fail you get bankruptcy. If you succeed you get called things like 'undeserving' by people who never risked or sacraficed like you have. Oh - and you get to pay about half of your income in tax.

Find a unique need you can fill and feel passionate about. Then risk your entire life savings, 15 hour days every day and any other avaliable resource pursuing it. If you fail you get bankruptcy. If you succeed you get called things like 'undeserving' by people who never risked or sacraficed like you have. Oh - and you get to pay about half of your income in tax.

Sounds like it doesn't matter what you do, you'll probably still be bitter

Sounds like it doesn't matter what you do, you'll probably still be bitter

Bitter? no. Frustrated with the thorough lack of even the basic principals of economic issues by most people? Yes.

Just as people should know how to write checks, buy a car, cook their own food and maintain their home people also have a responsibility to tend to their own finances. Far too many folks are not only woefully underprepared - they wear it as some sort of badge of pride. They expect other people to take care of their finances - which makes as much sense as expecting other people to take care of their housekeeping or cooking - often they expect anyone making marginally more than them to bear their responsibility.

It saddens me that so many people ask "what has the government done for me lately" when they vote. "Free-stuff" is not freedom. In the history of governments - giving them more power (in exchange for free-stuff") has never resulted in more freedom for their subjects.

I recall in 1994 when the federal government shut down for seeral weeks except for 'essential services'. First of all - I didn't miss them. Second of all - why would we wver want to pay for non-essential government services to begin with!!?

I say we go back to that - and just leave it permanent!

Posi's get rich quick scheme.

1) Obtain $600,000.

2) Purchase a house in Fort McMurray, Alberta.

3) ?*

4) Sell it after capital gains is no longer an issue.

5) Profit.

*In this particular situation, the ? does not mean that we do not know what to do. In fact the opposite. It has been proven that no act short of demolishing the house will lower its value in Fort McMurray, Alberta. Good advice is to rent for the six months. You could rent a typical house to three guys, and have each pay enough to cover the mortgage payments.

Actually, I have a real question.

I'm a college student, so my assets are rather limited. I want to start growing my wealth. I have a part time job, and about $2500 saved up. I want something low risk, but I want this money to start working for me, rather then just sit there.

Any suggestions?

If you are interested in making money, as opposed to earning it, I'd recommend a scanner and a color printer :p

Actually, I have a real question.

I'm a college student, so my assets are rather limited. I want to start growing my wealth. I have a part time job, and about $2500 saved up. I want something low risk, but I want this money to start working for me, rather then just sit there.

Any suggestions?
I know a German term for something I'd advise investing money in but leo.org gave many terms which seem to be off: Tagesgeld. Like a savings account but with more interest and better availability of the money (albeit interest rates change every quarter).

Don't put any money into play until after this Wednesday, because no-one knows exactly how insane Ben Bernake is.

After that, you can't really go very wrong shorting the financials. I've tipped on this forum before, and while I was I little premature with CFC, I was spot on with WM. I would suggest that you run into some leaps with C. Also Ambac looks to be a short to zero. (But Ambac isn't that liquid so it's an advanced play).

That said, this is a general forum, and you would be a damn fool to treat anything you ever read here as financial advice. As always, do your own due diligence. Then profit.

You can't go very wrong shorting the US however.

Disclosure: I hold March 40 puts on C, and am double short the QQQQ.

i would advise minting hydrocarbon polymer coinage, as petrolium resources will continue to become more scarce making them ultimately more valuable (and less practical to counterfit). i would also suggest making them odd shapes and colors to designate their varying denominations, and strongly suggest against, for aesthetic reasons, putting human likenessess on them. instead if they must carry immages, let them be odd and interesting archtecture on one side, and scenes from nature on the other.

(you did say MAKING rather then earning?()

=^^=
.../\...

Why don't you figure out what you are responding to before you respond. When you can come back with something relevant or intelligent about the discussion at hand then I will respond to you.

No, no we don't do that pyramid schemes. We are honnest, we do multi level marketing...

A guy that tried to sell me a time share.

I’ll tell you something.

If you really have 40 people (or more) working for you than you have no time to publish postings on this board. Or you are a lousy business man.

Unless, it are just 40 ‘losers’, which are not on your payroll, but from who you only cash-in a little commission fee.

And you are not answering straight. FMO is just a generalized term, often used by suspicious organisations.

So be honest and answer this few questions:

You get a commission for every service/product you sell?
You get a commission if you can find another loser that will sell for you?
You get a commission for every service/product this loser will sell?
You get a commission if your loser can find another loser that will sell for you?
You get a commission for every service/product the loser his loser will sell?
And they promised you that you'll be rich by doing almost nothing, isn't?
And you are promising this, to your losers, isn't?

Put your money in an investment scheme based on behavioural finance. I just wrote an essay on the subject, and it seems to be the best way to make investments that will outperform the market.

I have a question...

We've all seen the real-estate infomercials. They all promise a lot of money from rental properties and such, like Marrakech was saying, but that sounds like you have to at least have a good chunk of investment cash.

Sadly Im just a working schlub and dont have that kind of bread.
I have heard that its possible to buy properties for the back taxes owed on forclosures.
If so, how does one find a list of such properties in my area, and will a bank loan the amount, using the property as collateral?

I have a question...

We've all seen the real-estate infomercials. They all promise a lot of money from rental properties and such, like Marrakech was saying, but that sounds like you have to at least have a good chunk of investment cash.

Sadly Im just a working schlub and dont have that kind of bread.
I have heard that its possible to buy properties for the back taxes owed on forclosures.
If so, how does one find a list of such properties in my area, and will a bank loan the amount, using the property as collateral?

It depends. If you can buy a house at a real low price and the rent is rather high then your bank could accept a deal.

But such houses are rare. It's Earth here, not fantasy land.

If the house is rather average priced and so is your rent then I don't think that you'll get a loan. Unless you can back it up, by other money, someone else money, other property, etc...

It depends. If you can buy a house at a real low price and the rent is rather high then your bank could accept a deal.

But such houses are rare. It's Earth here, not fantasy land.

If the house is rather average priced and so is your rent then I don't think that you'll get a loan. Unless you can back it up, by other money, someone else money, other property, etc...


I think rather the idea would be to make a few cheap repairs to raise the value of the home a bit, and then turn around sell it at a full market value.
Essentially, making a nice sizable profit to invest elswhere.

It depends. If you can buy a house at a real low price and the rent is rather high then your bank could accept a deal.

But such houses are rare. It's Earth here, not fantasy land.

If the house is rather average priced and so is your rent then I don't think that you'll get a loan. Unless you can back it up, by other money, someone else money, other property, etc...

I thought I already explained how I do it. Most homes in the begining are negative income. It is not after some years before you get into the positive cash flow area. Now if you build every rental house you can get into a positive cash flow situation either at time of construction or soon after. Also you do have to be careful on the lender and terms. They can make or break a deal. If you cannot get good terms on your loan for a particular home then it may not work out on paper. I also recomend that you either have around 25k in cash or available equity in your primary home to cover your negatives for your first rental home or two. It takes awhile to build a portfolio based on how I do it. Don't have time right now but I can explain this in detail later.

One last thing about the infomercials you see on real estate. They all sound good and are great for one type of market. That would be the market where the seller carries the entire contract. I know that is impossible in the area I am in and I would think it is impossible in most of the US.

I say we hit all the casinos in Vegas at the same time. They won't be expecting that especially if it is carried out by a large group of people who have only ever met over the internet.

I have a question...

We've all seen the real-estate infomercials. They all promise a lot of money from rental properties and such, like Marrakech was saying, but that sounds like you have to at least have a good chunk of investment cash.

Sadly Im just a working schlub and dont have that kind of bread.
I have heard that its possible to buy properties for the back taxes owed on forclosures.
If so, how does one find a list of such properties in my area, and will a bank loan the amount, using the property as collateral?

You have to call your local tax commission most of the houses are owing state tax and property tax. They auction them off most of the time and you have to go in with money in hand, most banks won't lend you money "just cuz" unless you have damn good credit or borrow against your house, which btw NEVER DO.

If you don't have working capital to cover 3-6 months of your expenses with and without your real estate dealings, it's a bad bad bad idea to get into real estate, it's too risky. (especially right now, even flipping is a bad investment)

I thought I already explained how I do it. Most homes in the begining are negative income. It is not after some years before you get into the positive cash flow area. Now if you build every rental house you can get into a positive cash flow situation either at time of construction or soon after. Also you do have to be careful on the lender and terms. They can make or break a deal. If you cannot get good terms on your loan for a particular home then it may not work out on paper. I also recomend that you either have around 25k in cash or available equity in your primary home to cover your negatives for your first rental home or two. It takes awhile to build a portfolio based on how I do it. Don't have time right now but I can explain this in detail later.

One last thing about the infomercials you see on real estate. They all sound good and are great for one type of market. That would be the market where the seller carries the entire contract. I know that is impossible in the area I am in and I would think it is impossible in most of the US.




Sure. But it isn’t that easy like you’re talking.

First of all, you need some money of your own. Borrowing all is stupid

Then you need some knowledge:

• You have to assess correctly the worth of a house. This is pretty tricky.
• You have to assess future repairs. This is even trickier.
• You have to do your calculations well, a too high monthly payment or a too long duration could kill your profit.
• When you’re buying to receive some rent, you need some luck. The people who rent it, have to pay in time & complete, but you need some luck that they will not destroy your house as well. Refuse people with children and animals.
• When you’re buying to sell again, be prepared, a house market can collapse in no time for sometimes unforeseen events. And even when we go not that pessimistic, I can think about scenarios where people are stuck with their house for months/years and can’t find someone willing to pay the price that’s needed to make profit.
• Make sure you have enough cash (if possible not borrowed) aside to cover unwanted costs and to back up an eventual loss.

If you don’t know this business: stay away, it’s too risky.

If you want to make money, check out the professions that pay well and get educated. That’s the ‘easiest’ and safest way.

Sure you can start as an independent and make some money, but 2/3 of any business isn’t surviving the third year. So, you’re not sure you’ll make it, it doesn’t matter how good you’re skilled or how hard you’re working. You need some luck as well.

You can be an excellent shopkeeper in some service or product but when a warehouse is opening in front of your door at prices that make you dizzy, odd are high that you can close your business.

I’ll tell you something.

If you really have 40 people (or more) working for you than you have no time to publish postings on this board. Or you are a lousy business man.

Unless, it are just 40 ‘losers’, which are not on your payroll, but from who you only cash-in a little commission fee.

And you are not answering straight. FMO is just a generalized term, often used by suspicious organisations.

So be honest and answer this few questions:

You get a commission for every service/product you sell?
You get a commission if you can find another loser that will sell for you?
You get a commission for every service/product this loser will sell?
You get a commission if your loser can find another loser that will sell for you?
You get a commission for every service/product the loser his loser will sell?
And they promised you that you'll be rich by doing almost nothing, isn't?
And you are promising this, to your losers, isn't?

Spoken like someone who has never ever had to manage anyone in their entire life. May as well discuss how easy it is to carry a pigskin 100 yards.

You have to call your local tax commission most of the houses are owing state tax and property tax. They auction them off most of the time and you have to go in with money in hand, most banks won't lend you money "just cuz" unless you have damn good credit or borrow against your house, which btw NEVER DO.

If you don't have working capital to cover 3-6 months of your expenses with and without your real estate dealings, it's a bad bad bad idea to get into real estate, it's too risky. (especially right now, even flipping is a bad investment)

So, lets say, you found such a home, got in on the auction, whats to stop you from selling at even a rediculously low price to insure that you indeed sell it?

I mean, if you sold a 100k home for 65k, wouldnt that still make a profit worth taking a bit of a risk?

Or, other than auctions, how else can you aquire such properties?