NationStates Jolt Archive

It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. The imperialist occupation of Iraq continues and falters while ruthless predatory multinationals pollute the skies with global warming. All around society continues to degenerate as the twin snakes of greed and licentiousness gnaw away at what little there is of civilization. But why is this happening? It is happening because God is angry at the world and its evil. God is angry at the amoral secular tyrant Democrat party, as well as the Republican party in its support for capitalism, which is based entirely off of greed and unworthy of selfless Christians. It may be too late to avert God’s righteous anger, but there may still be some possibility to save ourselves from his merciful retribution. It will require nothing less than all of the greatest force that good Christians can muster, as the Sodoms and Gomorrahs of the world must be cleansed, while the greedy and selfish rich man must be turned away from all the world just as Christ did. Perhaps then we may all be able to engage as one community to selflessly aid one another and live in the pure peace of God’s love, rather than wither under his great might.

The Lord is indeed displeased, but you're just ranting. Perhaps you should have written it in 1337, that'd fit the general tone better.

1. Omg wtf is dat ayngel doin wiv teh key to teh botmlez pit an a chain?
2. Teh ayngel is laik, “Oh hai, Tacgnol, u is evilz an u is goin in teh pit 4 laik a rilly long time, dood. Srsly.”
3. An Tacgnol is frown into teh botmlez pit 4 lying to pplz. Getz out in laik 1000 years but not 4 long tho, so no worryz.
4. An ai seen judgez on frones, an wtf! teh gud pplz has got laik no hedz just coz dey laiks Baby Jesus an stuffs! Not bin worshipin idles or anyfin! Anyways, theyz bak to life an livin with Baby Jesus for laik 1000 years.
5. (Ded gud pplz wiv heds has 2 wait 1000 years. Not gud.) Dis bak to life 1.
6. Bak 2 life 1 pplz pwn other pplz, not even pwned by secund dedding. Deyz laik best matez wiv Baby Jesus an Ceiling Cat, for laik 1000 years, srsly. OMG how kool is dat?
7. Laik 1000 years laterz, Tacgnol gotted out of teh botmlez pit
8. An sez lying stuffs to all urths pplz, tryin to start teh scrap.
9. Loadz pplz turnded up an are laik, “Oh hai, Ceiling Cat pplz, we pwn you big stylez”, but den teh Ceiling makes teh firez an dey is all “Oh noes! Do not want!”.
10. An Tacgnol is frown in a lake of fartz, wiv other evil pplz to burn 24 7 forevers. Sry.
11. Omg, is dat Ceiling Cat on teh white frone? Ys, coz Ceiling Cat is pwning the urths and stuffs.
12. Ai see ded pplz. Srsly.
13. All ded pplz deyz bein judged, even the rilly rilly hard onez 2 get at coz deys in teh sea an stuffs.
14. Den death an Hades gets frown in teh fire lake. Oh noes! Dis teh secund dedding.
15. Oh btw evil pplz is goin in teh fire lake also. Pwned!

I don't know about anybody else, but I think the Book of Revelation makes more sense when read in Lolcat.

Sounds like we all need to get rutting.

*copulates*

Edit: I stand corrected, he lives!

Who's puppet is it?

:headbang:

Yes, yes, the world is in a terrible state etc etc.
As I pointed out to a friend only last week, people are always trying to convince us that the world is on a highway to hell...

But how many young people even know what a four minute warning is? Let alone what pitifully inadequate measures you are supposed to take when one happens.

1. Omg wtf is dat ayngel doin wiv teh key to teh botmlez pit an a chain?
2. Teh ayngel is laik, “Oh hai, Tacgnol, u is evilz an u is goin in teh pit 4 laik a rilly long time, dood. Srsly.”
3. An Tacgnol is frown into teh botmlez pit 4 lying to pplz. Getz out in laik 1000 years but not 4 long tho, so no worryz.
4. An ai seen judgez on frones, an wtf! teh gud pplz has got laik no hedz just coz dey laiks Baby Jesus an stuffs! Not bin worshipin idles or anyfin! Anyways, theyz bak to life an livin with Baby Jesus for laik 1000 years.
5. (Ded gud pplz wiv heds has 2 wait 1000 years. Not gud.) Dis bak to life 1.
6. Bak 2 life 1 pplz pwn other pplz, not even pwned by secund dedding. Deyz laik best matez wiv Baby Jesus an Ceiling Cat, for laik 1000 years, srsly. OMG how kool is dat?
7. Laik 1000 years laterz, Tacgnol gotted out of teh botmlez pit
8. An sez lying stuffs to all urths pplz, tryin to start teh scrap.
9. Loadz pplz turnded up an are laik, “Oh hai, Ceiling Cat pplz, we pwn you big stylez”, but den teh Ceiling makes teh firez an dey is all “Oh noes! Do not want!”.
10. An Tacgnol is frown in a lake of fartz, wiv other evil pplz to burn 24 7 forevers. Sry.
11. Omg, is dat Ceiling Cat on teh white frone? Ys, coz Ceiling Cat is pwning the urths and stuffs.
12. Ai see ded pplz. Srsly.
13. All ded pplz deyz bein judged, even the rilly rilly hard onez 2 get at coz deys in teh sea an stuffs.
14. Den death an Hades gets frown in teh fire lake. Oh noes! Dis teh secund dedding.
15. Oh btw evil pplz is goin in teh fire lake also. Pwned!

I don't know about anybody else, but I think the Book of Revelation makes more sense when read in Lolcat.

Less understandable, and therefore less pure.

:headbang:

May you direct your frustration toward more suitable recipients: Those who shun God's word.

Besides, regardless if tommorrow is the apocalypse, or if it doesn't come for another 1000 years, the mission of the Christian is the same always. To glorify God, to spread His beloved Gospel, and to help others grow closer to Him.

Yes, yes, the world is in a terrible state etc etc.
As I pointed out to a friend only last week, people are always trying to convince us that the world is on a highway to hell...

But how many young people even know what a four minute warning is? Let alone what pitifully inadequate measures you are supposed to take when one happens.

Man has forgotten God. God has not forgotten man. Lest we repent, fire and brimstone shall smite us all, and an eternity burning in the stygian bowels of Hell will await.

Besides, regardless if tommorrow is the apocalypse, or if it doesn't come for another 1000 years, the mission of the Christian is the same always. To glorify God, to spread His beloved Gospel, and to help others grow closer to Him.

You have indeed been enlightened by God's wisdom. May the Almighty continue to lead you down the path of righteousness.

Man has forgotten God. God has not forgotten man. Lest we repent, fire and brimstone shall smite us all, and an eternity burning in the stygian bowels of Hell will await.

Wow, your god is a dick. Tell me, does he routinely condemn people to eternal torture, or is this a new fetish?

Wow, your god is a dick. Tell me, does he routinely condemn people to eternal torture, or is this a new fetish?

God does not condemn them. They condemn themselves.

God does not condemn them. They condemn themselves.

Right right, so uh tell me, why is his omnipotence thwarted by humans?

Wow, your god is a dick. Tell me, does he routinely condemn people to eternal torture, or is this a new fetish?

How is he a dick for carrying out justice? He gave a clear warning, repent and live for Him or face eternal separation from Him. If you do the first, you will be rewarded by being allowed to be in His presence. If you go along with the second, you are punished. Its not Him getting off on people being in Hell,but because He is a God of Justice, and His word, he follows through with the threats.

How is he a dick for carrying out justice? He gave a clear warning, repent and live for Him or face eternal separation from Him. If you do the first, you will be rewarded by being allowed to be in His presence. If you go along with the second, you are punished. Its not Him getting off on people being in Hell,but because He is a God of Justice, and His word, he follows through with the threats.

I kind of think he's a dick 'cause he created hell, created sin, and then condemns his creations for the flaws he created them inherent with.

*sits in thread, eats popcorn and drink Pepsi*

This will be interesting.

Right right, so uh tell me, why is his omnipotence thwarted by humans?

I will pray for your soul in face of this blasphemy. In response, they do not foil his omnipotence. He wants them to go to Hell and lets them do so.

I kind of think he's a dick 'cause he created hell, created sin, and then condemns his creations for the flaws he created them inherent with.

Yea, but one could argue that Adam and Eve damned us all with original sin.

How is he a dick for carrying out justice? He gave a clear warning, repent and live for Him or face eternal separation from Him. If you do the first, you will be rewarded by being allowed to be in His presence. If you go along with the second, you are punished. Its not Him getting off on people being in Hell,but because He is a God of Justice, and His word, he follows through with the threats.
Indeed. So sad that few can understand His benevolence.

How is he a dick for carrying out justice? He gave a clear warning, repent and live for Him or face eternal separation from Him. If you do the first, you will be rewarded by being allowed to be in His presence. If you go along with the second, you are punished. Its not Him getting off on people being in Hell,but because He is a God of Justice, and His word, he follows through with the threats.

Amen.

Man has forgotten God. God has not forgotten man. Lest we repent, fire and brimstone shall smite us all, and an eternity burning in the stygian bowels of Hell will await.

Sounds like a bad time.
How does it relate to my observation that the world is, in some very important ways, a better place than it was a few decades ago?

I kind of think he's a dick 'cause he created hell, created sin, and then condemns his creations for the flaws he created them inherent with.


He did not create sin. Humans did. Sin is doing an act which seperates us from God. God did not create that separation. Humans did. He only created hell to punish those that did not make an honest attempt to serve and more importantly, love Him.

*sits in thread, eats popcorn and drink Pepsi*

This will be interesting.

Yes, the aftermath of Armageddon will indeed be interesting, when He judges those who are righteous and worthy of salvation, and those who are not. Have you accepted Christ as your Savior and Lord?

Sounds like a bad time.
How does it relate to my observation that the world is, in some very important ways, a better place than it was a few decades ago?

Licentiousness, sodomy, blasphemy, profanity, and immorality proliferate as never more. The plight of the world grows ever grimmer. But it may not be too late.

He wants them to go to Hell and lets them do so.

Then he is a dick.

How is he a dick for carrying out justice? He gave a clear warning, repent and live for Him or face eternal separation from Him. If you do the first, you will be rewarded by being allowed to be in His presence. If you go along with the second, you are punished. Its not Him getting off on people being in Hell,but because He is a God of Justice, and His word, he follows through with the threats.

I find your god to be the mother of all child abusers.

Then he is a dick.

God is the Creator of all. He is not a phallus.

Regardless of whether Red Baptism is a genuine troll, or some poor soul genuinely convinced that the Apocalypse is upon us, does anyone actually get converted by this sorta stuff nowadays?

I can understand that in days of yore, frightened people beset by pestilence, poverty, war and the other lovely features of Dark Ages existence may well have turned to Christ for the 'safety' of not being damned to hell. One less worry to have, I suppose.

But for us lucky people who, on a world scale, are pretty well off, does the fire and brimstone routine ever work? Surely that's why most Christian denominations, at least in the West, focus on Christ's love, not his Dad's anger, to convert.

God is the Creator of all. He is not a phallus.

If God were a phallus I wouldn't be an atheist anymore.

I find your god to be the mother of all child abusers.

Please explain.

Licentiousness, sodomy, blasphemy, profanity, and immorality proliferate as never more. The plight of the world grows ever grimmer. But it may not be too late.

I refer you to my earlier remarks about young people not knowing what a four minute warning is.

He did not create sin. Humans did. Sin is doing an act which seperates us from God. God did not create that separation. Humans did. He only created hell to punish those that did not make an honest attempt to serve and more importantly, love Him.

So he isn't omnipotent.

Regardless of whether Red Baptism is a genuine troll, or some poor soul genuinely convinced that the Apocalypse is upon us, does anyone actually get converted by this sorta stuff nowadays?

I can understand that in days of yore, frightened people beset by pestilence, poverty, war and the other lovely features of Dark Ages existence may well have turned to Christ for the 'safety' of not being damned to hell. One less worry to have, I suppose.

But for us lucky people who, on a world scale, are pretty well off, does the fire and brimstone routine ever work? Surely that's why most Christian denominations, at least in the West, focus on Christ's love, not his Dad's anger, to convert.

Hence why capitalism is a demonic tool of Satan. It has created material wealth and the greed that perpetuates it specifically to drain people of their piety and forget God's righteous anger.

If God were a phallus I wouldn't be an atheist anymore.

You're an atheist now?

So he isn't omnipotent.

Explain how what I said wouldn't make Him omnipotent.

Please explain.

God: "If you don't do as I say, I'm going to throw you into Hell."

Abusive parent: "If you don't do as I say, I'm going to knock your teeth out."

I see a similarity >.>

God: "If you don't do as I say, I'm going to throw you into Hell."

Abusive parent: "If you don't do as I say, I'm going to knock your teeth out."

I see a similarity >.>

Abusive parent beats out of pleasure, or not being able to control themselves. God desires every person to be in paradise with Him. People decide otherwise, and are punished.

If God were a phallus I wouldn't be an atheist anymore.

Atheism is an invitation to Hell. Please recant.

Atheism is an invitation to Hell. Please recant.

See, now you are just out to piss people off.

You're an atheist now?
for the foreseeable future.
Atheism is an invitation to Hell. Please recant.
can't, won't, not gonna.

God is the Creator of all. He is not a phallus.

Yes he is. He is everything after all.

Everything will balance itself out in the end. Humankind and nature have both shown their capacity to achieve such a feat.

for the foreseeable future.

:(

I weep for you Smunk.

See, now you are just out to piss people off.

I am out to save them. I would rather see disgruntled chosen than content hellbound.

Yes, the aftermath of Armageddon will indeed be interesting, when He judges those who are righteous and worthy of salvation, and those who are not. Have you accepted Christ as your Savior and Lord?

First of all, Armageddon is a place, not an event.
But since you're a Christian, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
And which "Armageddon" are you referring to? The one that was supposed to take place in 992, February 1542, 1759, April 1761, October 1844, 1882, 1911, 1914, 1919, 1925, May 1928, September 1936, 1952, August 1953, December 1967, 1975, 1982, 1988, 1991, October 1992, November 1993, May 1998, 2000, May 2003, or June 2006? Or one of the numerous other ones set to occur throughout the rest of time?

Just curious, so I know when to get ready.

Everything will balance itself out in the end. Humankind and nature have both shown their capacity to achieve such a feat.

Only by God's good grace.

Only by God's good grace.

Flaw.

Your God isn't good, he creates people knowing they will be tortured for an eternity, and then lets them.

Flaw.

Your God isn't good, he creates people knowing they will be tortured for an eternity, and then lets them.

They are to blame. Had they not rejected Him, such torture would be avoided.

I am out to save them. I would rather see disgruntled chosen than content hellbound.

We are supposed to be bringers of love, peace, tolerance, compassion, and joy. That is the Gospel. Yes, we should inform them about what happens if they reject the Gospel, but we should not make it the man focal point of outreach.

First of all, Armageddon is a place, not an event.
But since you're a Christian, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
And which "Armageddon" are you referring to? The one that was supposed to take place in 992, February 1542, 1759, April 1761, October 1844, 1882, 1911, 1914, 1919, 1925, May 1928, September 1936, 1952, August 1953, December 1967, 1975, 1982, 1988, 1991, October 1992, November 1993, May 1998, 2000, May 2003, or June 2006? Or one of the numerous other ones set to occur throughout the rest of time?

Just curious, so I know when to get ready.

If you want to get ready to save your soul, do it now. The dates above were planted by the agents of Satan to decrease belief in the coming apocalypse, but each year that passes brings us inexorably closer to doom. It will come upon us suddenly, and if you wait to be elected it will cost you an eternity in Hell.

Abusive parent beats out of pleasure, or not being able to control themselves. God desires every person to be in paradise with Him. People decide otherwise, and are punished.

So your god is a control freak? oO

Abusive parent beats out of pleasure, or not being able to control themselves. God desires every person to be in paradise with Him. People decide otherwise, and are punishedis fun,.
If he desires every person to be in paradise with him, why create Hell in the first place? Why be so pissy and immature about his fallible creations repenting? Why make it so hard to believe in him? Why make the things he supposedly loves jump through so many hoops just to love him?

for the foreseeable future.
If you don't mind me asking Smunk, why the change in beliefs? You often seemed quite committed.

Not that I'm complaining.

Flaw.

Your God isn't good, he creates people knowing they will be tortured for an eternity, and then lets them.

He creates them with free will. And he has given them a message. He has showed them the options. It is not his fault that they turn from him.

It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. The imperialist occupation of Iraq continues and falters while ruthless predatory multinationals pollute the skies with global warming. All around society continues to degenerate as the twin snakes of greed and licentiousness gnaw away at what little there is of civilization. But why is this happening? It is happening because God is angry at the world and its evil. God is angry at the amoral secular tyrant Democrat party, as well as the Republican party in its support for capitalism, which is based entirely off of greed and unworthy of selfless Christians. It may be too late to avert God’s righteous anger, but there may still be some possibility to save ourselves from his merciful retribution. It will require nothing less than all of the greatest force that good Christians can muster, as the Sodoms and Gomorrahs of the world must be cleansed, while the greedy and selfish rich man must be turned away from all the world just as Christ did. Perhaps then we may all be able to engage as one community to selflessly aid one another and live in the pure peace of God’s love, rather than wither under his great might.

Nice veil attempt at religious flamebaiting as well as bashing capitalists. Please let me know when you grow up.

If you want to get ready to save your soul, do it now. The dates above were planted by the agents of Satan to decrease belief in the coming apocalypse, but each year that passes brings us inexorably closer to doom. It will come upon us suddenly, and if you wait to be elected it will cost you an eternity in Hell.

Out of curiosity, what denomination are you? Your references to 'elect' would imply Jehovah's Witness.

They are to blame. Had they not rejected Him, such torture would be avoided.

Again, wrong.

God created their brain thus created their personality which would lead them to not believe in God. God is ultimately responsible.

Even so, damning someone to eternal torture for not believing in something extremely hard to believe in is so "evil" anyway.

Well, if I'm going to Hell, I want to buy some nice stuff while I'm there.

Nice veil attempt at religious flamebaiting as well as bashing capitalists. Please let me know when you grow up.

Attempting to help the blind see is bashing? I cannot stand idly by while many of God's children lust for a future in Hell.

Explain how what I said wouldn't make Him omnipotent.

Well, either he's not omnipotent or I must side with the "He's a dick" crowd.

Because creating humans with an inherent flaw (as an omnipotent being would) or at least not correcting said flaw is quite dickish.

God does not condemn them. They condemn themselves.

Tell that to the day of judgment where God does condemn them.

Flaw.

Your God isn't good, he creates people knowing they will be tortured for an eternity, and then lets them.

Eaxctly.
God loves us and cares for us and wants us to be by His side... but one wrong step, and He condemns you to pain and suffering for all of eternity.
But he still loves you.

Actually... if God is so great, how can he be so petty as to stoop to jealousy? He refers to Himself numerous times in the OT as a "jealous God"... or is that a part of the Bible that you conveniently reject?

Out of curiosity, what denomination are you? Your references to 'elect' would imply Jehovah's Witness.

I am a TULIP Calvinist.

Jehovah's Witnesses are agents of satan controlled by the Catholic Church, which has been corrupted and bastardized by liberation theology and the vice of homosexuality.

He creates them with free will. And he has given them a message. He has showed them the options. It is not his fault that they turn from him.

Being supposedly omnipotent, he knows that they will turn on him.

Tell that to the day of judgment where God does condemn them.

They chose to incur His condemnation.

So your god is a control freak? oO

Here is your problem, you try to associate human qualities with one who is beyond humanity's shortcomings. Until you realize that, then you will continue to make foolish comments such as this one I've quoted.

If he desires every person to be in paradise with him, why create Hell in the first place? Why be so pissy and immature about his fallible creations repenting? Why make it so hard to believe in him? Why make the things he supposedly loves jump through so many hoops just to love him? He desires us to be there so much that he made the way to get there simple, by loving and obeying. I don't feel as if I am being forced to do anything I don't want to. I am showing Him how I love him. It is easy to say I love you, and not mean it, no? God wants us to show our love for him, by denying the temptations of the world, and living a holy life for Him.



If you don't mind me asking Smunk, why the change in beliefs? You often seemed quite committed.

Not that I'm complaining.

No offense to smunk, but I think it was probably by being on NSG too long.

I am a TULIP Calvinist.

Jehovah's Witnesses are agents of satan controlled by the Catholic Church, which has been corrupted and bastardized by liberation theology and the vice of homosexuality.

If you were a real Calvinist you wouldn't be trying to convert people.

I am a TULIP Calvinist.

Jehovah's Witnesses are agents of satan controlled by the Catholic Church, which has been corrupted and bastardized by liberation theology and the vice of homosexuality.

Sigged!

Being supposedly omnipotent, he knows that they will turn on him.

Yes, he does know who will love him, and who will disobey. Still, he gives the choice, because its the fair thing to do.

If you don't mind me asking Smunk, why the change in beliefs? You often seemed quite committed.

Not that I'm complaining.

Lots of reasons.

If you were a real Calvinist you wouldn't be trying to convert people.

God hates liars.

Rapture? Blondie?

I am a TULIP Calvinist.

Jehovah's Witnesses are agents of satan controlled by the Catholic Church, which has been corrupted and bastardized by liberation theology and the vice of homosexuality.


You are sounding a lot like those "God hates Fags" people.

He creates them with free will. And he has given them a message. He has showed them the options. It is not his fault that they turn from him.

He creates people with free will then punishes all those who exercise it. Unless of course their will is to give up their free will to him.

What happens to those who've never heard of god? How can there be people who've never heard of god? I mean if he's the one true god and all that nonsense?

If you were a real Calvinist you wouldn't be trying to convert people.

Edit:

I realize their chances of salvation are negligible, but it is my duty as a Christian to try.

God hates liars.

WTF?!? And did you know that Calvin often had conversations with Satan in the bathroom? At one point, he (calvin) threw his shit at Satan to make him leave.

edit: IIRC, even Calvin's shit was sanctified (either that, or he was bugshit crazy), because Satan left after it got flung at him. Or he was grossed out...

You are sounding a lot like those "God hates Fags" people.

I don't hate homosexuals. Hate the sin, not the sinner.

God hates liars.

God hates everyone.

Sigged!

Banned, I would have thought, if anyone can be bothered to contact a mod.

Edit:

I realize their chances of salvation are negligible, but it is my duty as a Christian to try.

Not very Calvinist like. Guess you're to much of a pussy. :D

God hates everyone.
Sigged!

He creates people with free will then punishes all those who exercise it. Unless of course their will is to give up their free will to him. Again, those who choose sin will get their rewards now, but not later. They choose this world over God. They choose separation from God. So God gives them the eternal separation.



What happens to those who've never heard of god? How can there be people who've never heard of god? I mean if he's the one true god and all that nonsense?

That is the fault of believers, for not spreading the Gospel as it was commanded to us. I cannot say for certain were anyone individual really goes. I can only make generalizations that certain types of people will end up in Hell, or in Heaven. As for those that never hear the Gospel, I cannot say. I do personally believe that God would take that into account.

What happens to those who've never heard of god? How can there be people who've never heard of god? I mean if he's the one true god and all that nonsense?

I seem to recall one of the early explorers landed on an island, met the greeting party, and promptly had them hanged for not being Christian. People who'd never even heard of Jesus. Love thy neighbor, indeed.

God hates everyone.

No.

I seem to recall one of the early explorers landed on an island, met the greeting party, and promptly had them hanged for not being Christian. People who'd never even heard of Jesus. Love thy neighbor, indeed.

The explorers committed a grievous sin. They should have enlightened, not murdered, the lost children of God.

I seem to recall one of the early explorers landed on an island, met the greeting party, and promptly had them hanged for not being Christian. People who'd never even heard of Jesus. Love thy neighbor, indeed.

So you judge the message based on what ignorant people do?

No.

Yes.

He desires us to be there so much that he made the way to get there simple, by loving and obeying.
But doesn't make it even simpler by just allowing everyone in.

I don't feel as if I am being forced to do anything I don't want to. I am showing Him how I love him. It is easy to say I love you, and not mean it, no? God wants us to show our love for him, by denying the temptations of the world, and living a holy life for Him.
Why make temptations in the first place? Why, ultimately, must we show God our love?

He's just playing some arbitrary game with us, the sicko.

Yes.

Smunkee, I really want to know what some of your reasons are. You were the last person I expected to give up your beliefs!

Edit:

I realize their chances of salvation are negligible, but it is my duty as a Christian to try.

Your duty huh?

Not very Calvinist like. Guess you're to much of a pussy. :D

God's elect are not 'pussies.' Such a person is one who goes to Hell for angering God.

Smunkee, I really want to know what some of your reasons are. You were the last person I expected to give up your beliefs!
TG me and we can discuss.

No.

Bullshit. He sure as hell hates me. I live at 667 neighbour of the Beast man. I lent him my lawnmower the other day.

So you judge the message based on what ignorant people do?

No, I just get tired of some Christians who act like their coreligionists have always been a force for good, happy, shiny things in the world. And those who act like theirs is the only path up the mountain.

Man has forgotten God. God has not forgotten man. Lest we repent, fire and brimstone shall smite us all, and an eternity burning in the stygian bowels of Hell will await.

Errr.... I am guessing you don't know what "lest" means.

Your duty huh?

Yes. I feel malice toward none of you. I sincerely want all of you to go to Heaven. Although ultimately, that choice is really up to you. Please choose wisely, my sister.

No offense to smunk, but I think it was probably by being on NSG too long.

Goodbye Zilam, I knew ye well.

*watches NSG devours him*

I call dibs on his stuff.

The explorers committed a grievous sin. They should have enlightened, not murdered, the lost children of God.
How does god lose children? I mean I've never even lost my keys, I can't imagine I'd lose a kid, much less a whole people.
Again, those who choose sin will get their rewards now, but not later. They choose this world over God. They choose separation from God. So God gives them the eternal separation. Does that mean Hell will just be a place free of folks annoying me about "The good news about god"? If so, sign my ass up.




That is the fault of believers, for not spreading the Gospel as it was commanded to us. I cannot say for certain were anyone individual really goes. I can only make generalizations that certain types of people will end up in Hell, or in Heaven. As for those that never hear the Gospel, I cannot say. I do personally believe that God would take that into account.

So people aren't born just knowing which god is right? How can that be? Seems like shoddy craftsmanship on the part of god to me.

Errr.... I am guessing you don't know what "lest" means.

Grammatical errors happen to everyone, even God's chosen.

TG me and we can discuss.

I don't like TGing though :(

Why don't you start a new thread about it?

Yes. I feel malice toward none of you. I sincerely want all of you to go to Heaven. Although ultimately, that choice is really up to you. Please choose wisely, my sister.
Ya sure seem to show malice towards Jehovah's Witnesses and Homosexuals.

Lots of reasons.
K. Thanks.

Yes. I feel malice toward none of you. I sincerely want all of you to go to Heaven. Although ultimately, that choice is really up to you. Please choose wisely, my sister.

Because if you choose poorly, you'll age reallyreally fast and end up a pile of dust like that Nazi guy in The Last Crusade!

Yes. I feel malice toward none of you. I sincerely want all of you to go to Heaven. Although ultimately, that choice is really up to you. Please choose wisely, my sister.

Again, how un Calvinist like.

I don't like TGing though :(

Why don't you start a new thread about it?

because nobody probably cares........and you have a TG.

Does that mean Hell will just be a place free of folks annoying me about "The good news about god"? If so, sign my ass up.

Sign me up, too!

Smunkee, I really want to know what some of your reasons are. You were the last person I expected to give up your beliefs!Why? She never particularly knew what her beliefs were at all. More like a gut feeling, but nothing substantial. And now she claims to have become an atheist because she doesn't want to be mistaken for a homophobe. How noble.

because nobody probably cares........and you have a TG.

The Lord cares.

Yes, he does know who will love him, and who will disobey. Still, he gives the choice, because its the fair thing to do.

In essence, however, they have no choice in your scenario.

In your scenario, god is omnipotent and knows who will love him and who will disobey. Not only does he know, but he has the power to save them. However, he does not do this.

I much prefer a more nordic scenario then, where the gods do not know who is going to Valhalla, but must wait until after the battle is fought. At least there there is a choice.

What you offer isn't choice.

TG me and we can discuss.

You got a TG from me.

Why? She never particularly knew what her beliefs were at all. More like a gut feeling, but nothing substantial. And now she claims to have become an atheist because she doesn't want to be mistaken for a homophobe. How noble.

Ooh ooh read my mind next!

because nobody probably cares........and you have a TG.

Sure they do!

Man has forgotten God. God has not forgotten man. Lest we repent, fire and brimstone shall smite us all, and an eternity burning in the stygian bowels of Hell will await.

I'm sorry but your concept of hell is wrong. We all go to Sheol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol)/Hades in the end. Some do call it hell, but it's not quite the same as the hell you think exists.

I will pray for your soul in face of this blasphemy. In response, they do not foil his omnipotence. He wants them to go to Hell and lets them do so.

Don't pray for mine because my soul does not need to be saved. It was saved the day I realised that God is nothing more than a human fabrication and religion a set of controls dreamt up by a bunch of homophobic old men who hadn't been laid in years.

He did not create sin. Humans did. Sin is doing an act which seperates us from God. God did not create that separation. Humans did. He only created hell to punish those that did not make an honest attempt to serve and more importantly, love Him.

Why does "God" want man to love him? Would that not be homosexual? Unless of course, "God" is bi-curious! Which means that homosexuality and the "acts" that are considered sins are truly not sins. After all, was man not created in the image of "God" according to Genesis?

Atheism is an invitation to Hell. Please recant.

No I will not. Sheol/Hades doesn't scare me so I have no reason to.

I am out to save them. I would rather see disgruntled chosen than content hellbound.

I'm not hellbound because hell does not exist. I would rather be content in my life with no one preaching at me than disgruntled and "saved". I'd rather not be "saved".

Does that mean Hell will just be a place free of folks annoying me about "The good news about god"? If so, sign my ass up.
Same here. That hell would be heaven.

Ya sure seem to show malice towards Jehovah's Witnesses and Homosexuals.

I only hate their heinous acts, not the persons themselves.

Again, how un Calvinist like.

Yeah, isn't Calvinisim all about predestination? Or is that another sect? They all get jumbled up after awhile.

Again, how un Calvinist like.

But God knows how the people will act. There is no contradiction.

Why? She never particularly knew what her beliefs were at all. More like a gut feeling, but nothing substantial. And now she claims to have become an atheist because she doesn't want to be mistaken for a homophobe. How noble.

Because being a trolling asshole on teh intrawebs is somehow more noble?

I only hate their heinous acts, not the persons themselves.

How are their acts 'heinous'? They're not more violent, their not more greedy, commit the same amount of Sins as everybody else.

I much prefer a more nordic scenario then, where the gods do not know who is going to Valhalla, but must wait until after the battle is fought. At least there there is a choice.

That does sound like a better system.

Attempting to help the blind see is bashing? I cannot stand idly by while many of God's children lust for a future in Hell.

So you just basicly called me a selfish Christian because I believe in capitalism. I myself am a born again Christian and proud to be one so am I going to hell?

I would not be surprised if Red Baptism and Imperial Brazil are both the same guy.

So you just basicly called me a selfish Christian because I believe in capitalism. I myself am a born again Christian and proud to be one so am I going to hell?

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to Heaven. Christianity and capitalism are mutually exclusive.

Edit:

I realize their chances of salvation are negligible, but it is my duty as a Christian to try.

Um calvanism believes in predestination. AKA: They do not convert people.

So you just basicly called me a selfish Christian because I believe in capitalism. I myself am a born again Christian and proud to be one so am I going to hell?

Well apparently you're not the right sect of Christian. It matters ya know. You have to pick the right god, and the right interpretation of the right god. Don't fret though, God knows ahead of time if you're going to hell or not.

How are their acts 'heinous'? They're not more violent, their not more greedy, commit the same amount of Sins as everybody else.

They are soul-damning sins that push one from God. That is why they are so heinous.

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to Heaven. Christianity and capitalism are mutually exclusive.

What if I bribed St. Peter? Maybe get a mansion next to god?

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to Heaven. Christianity and capitalism are mutually exclusive.

So wrong. Jesus never said his ideas should dictate politics. Capitalism does not force people to be rich. But this is digressing.

They are soul-damning sins that push one from God. That is why they are so heinous.

Don't all sins do that? I mean isn't that the definition of Sin?

Ooh ooh read my mind next!I don't read minds. I've only read her PMs to me half a year ago, and I drew my conclusions....

Because being a trolling asshole on teh intrawebs is somehow more noble?Ask yourself. You should know best.

"I don't see why it matters what is written. Not when it's about people. It can always be crossed out."

-- (Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman, Good Omens)

So wrong. Jesus never said his ideas should dictate politics. Capitalism does not force people to be rich. But this is digressing.

He seemed to be very much against the idea. "Render unto Ceaser..." et cetera.

They are soul-damning sins that push one from God. That is why they are so heinous.

Then you should be condemning those who eat shellfish, stoning men whose beards aren't long enough or who wear clothes with more than one fiber, or who work on the Sabbath or, or, or... All these are mentioned as acts deserving of death in Leviticus. So... damned for eating shellfish?

And before you bring it up, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah had more to do with violation of hospitality laws that gay sex.

What if I bribed St. Peter? Maybe get a mansion next to god?

No, but maybe you would get a shack next to Satan.

The explorers committed a grievous sin. They should have enlightened, not murdered, the lost children of God.

Um...the children of God are um...well....Jews?

Ask yourself. You should know best.

Pray elucidate...

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to Heaven. Christianity and capitalism are mutually exclusive.

They are soul-damning sins that push one from God. That is why they are so heinous.

Communists have committed terrible acts in the past, as have basically every religious group. So religion commits the most terrible of the crimes it pronounces as Sins.

2ndly, no. They are not.

Um calvanism believes in predestination. AKA: They do not convert people.

Hence why the attempt is made despite the great unlikeliness of conversion. And I do not know of sects of Calvinism that have not had conversions in their church.

No, but maybe you would get a shack next to Satan.Oh, all the flies...

Um...the children of God are um...well....Jews?

All those who follow His word are His children.

No, but maybe you would get a shack next to Satan.

Sweet Wilgrove and I can live on the same street.

Um...the children of God are um...well....Jews?

Oh my god he's a Mormon!

So wrong. Jesus never said his ideas should dictate politics. Capitalism does not force people to be rich. But this is digressing.

Capitalism forces people to be greedy, and Christ spoke out against greed.

Don't all sins do that? I mean isn't that the definition of Sin?

Sodomy and heresy in particular. They are an attack against God Himself.

Sweet Wilgrove and I can live on the same street.

Sweet, we can totally hang out! :D

Then you should be condemning those who eat shellfish, stoning men whose beards aren't long enough or who wear clothes with more than one fiber, or who work on the Sabbath or, or, or... All these are mentioned as acts deserving of death in Leviticus. So... damned for eating shellfish?

And before you bring it up, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah had more to do with violation of hospitality laws that gay sex.

God hates homosexuality because it perverts the metaphor of Jesus and His bride the Church. And the new interpretation of Sodom and Gomorrah is propaganda by agents of Satan attempting to justify sodomy.

Capitalism forces people to be greedy.

No it doesn't.

God hates homosexuality because it perverts the metaphor of Jesus and His bride the Church. And the new interpretation of Sodom and Gomorrah is propaganda by agents of Satan attempting to justify sodomy.

Care to address the substance of my argument? Or prefer to blame it all on Satan?

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to Heaven. Christianity and capitalism are mutually exclusive.

Nice dodge of the question. Answer it straight out. I'm a Born again Christian who gives what he can to the church he attends. So tell me! Am I going to hell?

Sweet, we can totally hang out! :D

Think of all the money you'd save on central heating!

Sodomy and heresy in particular. They are an attack against God Himself.

So can you give me a list? Which sins are minor and forgivable and which ones are insta-hell?

Define sodomy please.

Hence why the attempt is made despite the great unlikeliness of conversion. And I do not know of sects of Calvinism that have not had conversions in their church.

I think what he's trying to say is that what your doing now is fairly pointless because whatever happens to us is predestined by god and no amount of repenting is gonna change whatever decision he's made about us. At least in the Calvinist point of view. I'm a fan of free will though. Great stuff, lets you pick between Coke or Pepsi and tons of other things. I'd recommend you try it some time.

God hates homosexuality because it perverts the metaphor of Jesus and His bride the Church. And the new interpretation of Sodom and Gomorrah is propaganda by agents of Satan attempting to justify sodomy.
What?

That does sound like a better system.

It's certainly fairer - you're not predestined to your fate, the gods do actually care if you live up to the standards and you're the one that can look back on your life and go "well, I trained hard enough" or "dammit, I was too busy with teh ladies!"

God hates homosexuality because it perverts the metaphor of Jesus and His bride the Church. And the new interpretation of Sodom and Gomorrah is propaganda by agents of Satan attempting to justify sodomy.

Then why does God want Man to love him? After all, God is a "he", and half of the human race is male, so then because man is not related to God and if he and God love each other, it becomes homosexual love.

Care to address the substance of my argument? Or prefer to blame it all on Satan?

The substance of your argument is dealt with because sodomy is an attack on the metaphor of Christ and his bride the Church. Jesus Christ was not a homosexual.

No it doesn't.

Yes, it does. It makes people work for their own selfish benefit instead of the glorification of God. Christ meant for all things to be held in common.

What if I bribed St. Peter? Maybe get a mansion next to god?

Actually..I think we all get mansions. Well those who believe that is.

It's certainly fairer - you're not predestined to your fate, the gods do actually care if you live up to the standards and you're the one that can look back on your life and go "well, I trained hard enough" or "dammit, I was too busy with teh ladies!"

Hmm, now how can I train for a battle in the next life?

Nice dodge of the question. Answer it straight out. I'm a Born again Christian who gives what he can to the church he attends. So tell me! Am I going to hell?

I am praying for your soul as we speak. Does this answer your question?

Actually..I think we all get mansions. Well those who believe that is.

Fine then... I want the mansion at 665! And I'll have the best damn Godless heathens party... EVAR! :)

The substance of your argument is dealt with because sodomy is an attack on the metaphor of Christ and his bride the Church. Jesus Christ was not a homosexual.

And he wasn't a woman, or a Frenchman, or an alien from the planet Reticula. What the hell does that have to do with the fact that Leviticus prescribes death for a laundry list of 'sins' that I don't see you condemning?

Think of all the money you'd save on central heating!

Oh I know, and if a nerd (and I really do mean nerd) get laid by a hot chick (or any chick hehe) just think of the snowballs and snow men we can make in Hell! :D

Yes. I feel malice toward none of you. I sincerely want all of you to go to Heaven. Although ultimately, that choice is really up to you. Please choose wisely, my sister.

Not if you are a Calvinist, it isn't. God has already decided who goes where, and there is nothing we can do about it. That is the U in TULIP.

The I says that the folks God has chosen cannot resist the call, so really, what is the point of preaching? Those who aren't going to Heaven can't no matter what we do and those who are going can't resist believing. Waste of your time and ours, I would say.

The substance of your argument is dealt with because sodomy is an attack on the metaphor of Christ and his bride the Church. Jesus Christ was not a homosexual.

Well he hung out with 12 guys and wore a dress all the time. I'm sorry but Jesus was a little bit FABULOUS!

Hence why the attempt is made despite the great unlikeliness of conversion. And I do not know of sects of Calvinism that have not had conversions in their church.

You have to prove that they have converted people to their church!

Ask to be buried in shorts RB, gonna be hot where your going.

So can you give me a list? Which sins are minor and forgivable and which ones are insta-hell?

Define sodomy please.

Read the Bible, it does it better than I could. Sodomy is defined as any unnatural sexual acts; sexual activity is acceptable only between one man and woman who are married to one another. Anything else insults God.

Oh I know, and if a nerd (and I really do mean nerd) get laid by a hot chick (or any chick hehe) just think of the snowballs and snow men we can make in Hell! :D

Then Satan should be hosting the Stanley Cup Finals, because redwulf is about the biggest nerd of the planet!

All those who follow His word are His children.

So I guess that means Jews are not his children even though they are the chosen people.

Oh I know, and if a nerd (and I really do mean nerd) get laid by a hot chick (or any chick hehe) just think of the snowballs and snow men we can make in Hell! :D

Screw that. I wanna surf the lake of fire man.

Then why does God want Man to love him? After all, God is a "he", and half of the human race is male, so then because man is not related to God and if he and God love each other, it becomes homosexual love.

God does not have sexual organs. There is no sodomy involved in God's relationship to man.

Hmm, now how can I train for a battle in the next life?

Well, according to the norse mythology, you don't have to train for a battle in the next life :p If you just die honourably in battle in this life, you'd go to Valhalla (your next life ;) ) where you'd get free mead, bacon and fighting all day long.

But please don't follow this advice >.<

Read the Bible, it does it better than I could. Sodomy is defined as any unnatural sexual acts; sexual activity is acceptable only between one man and woman who are married to one another. Anything else insults God.

Then god needs to learn to deal with insults.

The substance of your argument is dealt with because sodomy is an attack on the metaphor of Christ and his bride the Church. Jesus Christ was not a homosexual.

Jesus Christ wasn't Chinese, either. Does that mean being of Asian heritage is an attack on Christ?

So I guess that means Jews are not his children even though they are the chosen people.

If they follow God's word, they are His children.

Capitalism forces people to be greedy, and Christ spoke out against greed.

It forces people to be greedy? Holy Shit! Why wasn't I notified? Oh wait...no it doesn't. You lose.

Read the Bible, it does it better than I could. Sodomy is defined as any unnatural sexual acts; sexual activity is acceptable only between one man and woman who are married to one another. Anything else insults God.

Unlike you I've read the bible. By your definition (which is never defined in the bible I might point out) about 99% of the world is going straight to hell. Probably closer to 99.999999999% but I'm being optimistic.

Jesus Christ wasn't Chinese, either. Does that mean being of Asian heritage is an attack on Christ?

The Bible specifically condemns homosexuality, a chosen behavior. Nowhere does it mention heritage (which one does not choose).

God does not have sexual organs. There is no sodomy involved in God's relationship to man.

Then why do men and women possess sexual organs? Especially if they were supposedly created in the image of 'God'?

God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. -- Genesis 1:27

And he wasn't a woman, or a Frenchman, or an alien from the planet Reticula. What the hell does that have to do with the fact that Leviticus prescribes death for a laundry list of 'sins' that I don't see you condemning?

These other things are not condemned because they do not deal with God's relationship to man. Homosexuality does because the metaphor of Christ's marriage to the Church is endangered when homosexual activity is permitted. Christ does not engage in sodomy.

Then why do men and women possess sexual organs? Especially if they were supposedly created in the image of 'God'?

God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. -- Genesis 1:27

God's a hermaphrodite!

Then god needs to learn to deal with insults.

He deals with insults in His own way. By casting the insulters straight into Hell.

Not if you are a Calvinist, it isn't. God has already decided who goes where, and there is nothing we can do about it. That is the U in TULIP.

The I says that the folks God has chosen cannot resist the call, so really, what is the point of preaching? Those who aren't going to Heaven can't no matter what we do and those who are going can't resist believing. Waste of your time and ours, I would say.

I know what they mean, as I have chosen to follow God. God knows what path people shall choose, whether they shall be damned or saved. But we Christians are still obligated to spread His Word, even if others are doomed to ignore it.

I am praying for your soul as we speak. Does this answer your question?

Yep. It tells me you are an idiot!

Well, according to the norse mythology, you don't have to train for a battle in the next life :p If you just die honourably in battle in this life, you'd go to Valhalla (your next life ;) ) where you'd get free mead, bacon and fighting all day long.

But please don't follow this advice >.<

Dammit, and I can't join the military because I'm handicapped. I guess all I'll get is Niflhel.

I think there's Valhalla, Hel and Nifhel, am I correct?

He deals with insults in His own way. By casting the insulters straight into Hell.

Which we've established isn't such a bad place. Satan throws wicked parties!

Well he hung out with 12 guys and wore a dress all the time. I'm sorry but Jesus was a little bit FABULOUS!

Christ was not a drag queen. He had female companions, as well. But God wishes men to spread His Word, and thus why the 12 were so dear.

These other things are not condemned because they do not deal with God's relationship to man. Homosexuality does because the metaphor of Christ's marriage to the Church is endangered when homosexual activity is permitted.

If you're using the bible as a reference for literal truth, then yes, those sins have just as much weight as gay sex.

Christ does not engage in sodomy.

WHAT THE FUCK DOES HIS SEXUAL ORIENTATION HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?!?! :headbang:

Christ was not a drag queen. He had female companions, as well. But God wishes men to spread His Word, and thus why the 12 were so dear.

So are you saying Jesus had sex out of wedlock?

Yep. It tells me you are an idiot!

Please do not flame.

Why? She never particularly knew what her beliefs were at all. More like a gut feeling, but nothing substantial. And now she claims to have become an atheist because she doesn't want to be mistaken for a homophobe. How noble.

that's not true, I just didn't like you.......still don't.

If they follow God's word, they are His children.

They rejected Jesus.

It forces people to be greedy? Holy Shit! Why wasn't I notified? Oh wait...no it doesn't. You lose.

It does force people to be greedy. And if you don't realize this, you lose. Your soul, that is.

That's it. Red Baptist has clearly proven him/herself immune to logic based attacks, and I'm all out of acid arrows. I'm going to get some food and maybe a vicodin for my poor, infected ear.

He deals with insults in His own way. By casting the insulters straight into Hell.

Sounds like a spoiled angry brat to me.

Are you sure you wouldn't be better off not trying to convert us heathens?

It does force people to be greedy. And if you don't realize this, you lose. Your soul, that is.

Ownage, how can you beat amazing argumentative skills like that!?

Please do not flame.

as oppose to you who is condemning people? Trust me, it does nothing for popularity here.

It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

Because the world today is so much worse than it was in 1861-1865 or 1939-1945. :headbang:

(Sorry if this point was made already. I'm not going to read this whole stupid thread.)

Yes, it does. It makes people work for their own selfish benefit instead of the glorification of God. Christ meant for all things to be held in common.

Excellent! Jesus was a Communist? So, does that mean that the Apostles were, like, um... Jesus' personal KGB?
:D









Actually, I am a fan of communism. But not of Christianity.

It does force people to be greedy. And if you don't realize this, you lose. Your soul, that is.

Oh brother. Please tell me how it forces people to be greedy. I just told you I am a capitalist but yet I am not greedy. So tell me...how does capitalism force people to be greedy?

Dammit, and I can't join the military because I'm handicapped. I guess all I'll get is Niflhel.

I think there's Valhalla, Hel and Nifhel, am I correct?

Maybe. There's definitely Valhalla and Hel, but it wasn't all that organized.

In any case, Hel isn't such a bad place. It's just that the cultural norm of vikings was that they all wanted to be part of the divine strike team against the trolls at Ragnarok :p

And it's quite reasonable that Hel isn't such a bad place. All the wives, children, the best warriors (those who never died in battle, incl. one of the gods), etc... they went there. If you had a loving wife or mother, you probably wouldn't want to condemn her to a fiery death with brimstone :p

Looking it up, it seems that Hel and Nifhel are the same. It's probably to do with regional dialects.

The Bible specifically condemns homosexuality, a chosen behavior. Nowhere does it mention heritage (which one does not choose).

I regret to inform you that being homosexual is just as genetic as being chinese.

I regret to inform you that being homosexual is just as genetic as being chinese.That's not yet proven beyond all doubt.

I'm not gonna read the 14 pages of thread to find this, so someone might or might not have brought it up, but...

If god is all powerful, can he create something so heavy even he cannot lift it?

I regret to inform you that being homosexual is just as genetic as being chinese.

Fortunately, I can become chinese if I try hard enough, even though I am caucasian. Odd how citizenship and genetics have so very little to do with each other.

<Snip>
Hel isn't such a bad place. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKKWJmfBeAY)

Agreed.

Edit: Link fixed.

Agreed.

Fix your link. I had to search youtube to see what you were talking about ;)

That's not yet proven beyond all doubt.

Chinese people?

I regret to inform you that being homosexual is just as genetic as being chinese.

Not to pile on, but ah... That might or might not be true.

I'm not gonna read the 14 pages of thread to find this, so someone might or might not have brought it up, but...

If god is all powerful, can he create something so heavy even he cannot lift it?Very old shit. And based on a misconception of gravity.

If you were a real Calvinist you wouldn't be trying to convert people.

A real Calvinist would also be Amillenial.

Chinese people?Yes, that's it's as genetically caused to be gay as it is to be Chinese.

A real Calvinist would also be Amillenial.

I have met a few premillenial Calivinists but mostly they were Baptists who were elitists.

I know what they mean, as I have chosen to follow God. God knows what path people shall choose, whether they shall be damned or saved. But we Christians are still obligated to spread His Word, even if others are doomed to ignore it.

Well THAT seems like a monumentally losing proposition. A better God who has done all that would say "Don't bother preaching to people who aren't going to listen. Instead, go out and do some good with your time. Clothe the cold. Read to children. Plant flowers. Fundraise for hospitals. Coach softball. Volunteer for the Peace Corps."

It is terribly sad that I can imagine a better god than you can, and I don't believe in mine. But hey, you can have my god, if you want. Really, I don't mind. You take her, and I hope she does you some good.

Very old shit. And based on a misconception of gravity.
Fine, if you're going to be like that about it...

If god is all powerful, can he create something with so much mass even he cannot lift it?

(That's the scientifically correct way of putting it, right? I haven't taken physics yet. Only Chemistry. If it's not, would you mind letting me know the correct way?)

Fine, if you're going to be like that about it...

If god is all powerful, can he create something with so much mass even he cannot lift it?

(That's the scientifically correct way of putting it, right? I haven't taken physics yet. Only Chemistry. If it's not, would you mind letting me know the correct way?)If I make a handstand and put a book on my feet, then I lift the earth from the book. Go figure.

It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. The imperialist occupation of Iraq continues and falters while ruthless predatory multinationals pollute the skies with global warming. All around society continues to degenerate as the twin snakes of greed and licentiousness gnaw away at what little there is of civilization. But why is this happening? It is happening because God is angry at the world and its evil. God is angry at the amoral secular tyrant Democrat party, as well as the Republican party in its support for capitalism, which is based entirely off of greed and unworthy of selfless Christians. It may be too late to avert God’s righteous anger, but there may still be some possibility to save ourselves from his merciful retribution. It will require nothing less than all of the greatest force that good Christians can muster, as the Sodoms and Gomorrahs of the world must be cleansed, while the greedy and selfish rich man must be turned away from all the world just as Christ did. Perhaps then we may all be able to engage as one community to selflessly aid one another and live in the pure peace of God’s love, rather than wither under his great might.

The Lord is indeed displeased, but you're just ranting. Perhaps you should have written it in 1337, that'd fit the general tone better.

TROLL FIGHT!

Fine, if you're going to be like that about it...

If god is all powerful, can he create something with so much mass even he cannot lift it?

(That's the scientifically correct way of putting it, right? I haven't taken physics yet. Only Chemistry. If it's not, would you mind letting me know the correct way?)

Here, let me help:

Can an omnipotent being create an immovable object that he himself cannot move?

Somewhat broader.

TROLL FIGHT!

That's what I felt too, but Frisbeeteria disagrees.

Here, let me help:

Can an omnipotent being create an immovable object that he himself cannot move?

Somewhat broader.

Thanks.

If I make a handstand and put a book on my feet, then I lift the earth from the book. Go figure.
No, you lifted the book from the earth. You just used your feet...

Abusive parent beats out of pleasure, or not being able to control themselves. God desires every person to be in paradise with Him. People decide otherwise, and are punished.

An abusive parent may desire that all their children go to the amusement park with them, that won't stop the abusive SOB from beating the hell out of the kid for minor infractions of arbitrarily imposed rules and then telling the kid he gets locked in the basement while everyone else goes to the park. Kinda like Jehovah.

Fine, if you're going to be like that about it...

If god is all powerful, can he create something with so much mass even he cannot lift it?

(That's the scientifically correct way of putting it, right? I haven't taken physics yet. Only Chemistry. If it's not, would you mind letting me know the correct way?)

Well, really, technically, there is no correct way to put it. God, by definition, is infinite. Gravity is localized to planets and stars and things. If God were just creating really huge rocks to lift, they would be bigger than planets, and floating in space with no gravity to work against, so no lifting could happen. A rock so big that God couldn't lift it would, by definition, have to be bigger than infinity, which simply isn't, so it can't happen. But if it could, the lack of gravity problem would still exist, so again, nothing to lift against.

So basically, there is no way to state the question that makes it make sense in the real universe.

Atheism is an invitation to Hell. Please recant.

Ooooh, if it's an engraved invitation I might convert to Atheism, I've never gotten an engraved invitation before! (Of course they're probably handing out invites to pagans too).

Well, really, technically, there is no correct way to put it. God, by definition, is infinite. Gravity is localized to planets and stars and things. If God were just creating really huge rocks to lift, they would be bigger than planets, and floating in space with no gravity to work against, so no lifting could happen. A rock so big that God couldn't lift it would, by definition, have to be bigger than infinity, which simply isn't, so it can't happen. But if it could, the lack of gravity problem would still exist, so again, nothing to lift against.

So basically, there is no way to state the question that makes it make sense in the real universe.
But if god is all powerful, he should be able to MAKE it make sense in the real universe.

Fine, if you're going to be like that about it...

If god is all powerful, can he create something with so much mass even he cannot lift it?

(That's the scientifically correct way of putting it, right? I haven't taken physics yet. Only Chemistry. If it's not, would you mind letting me know the correct way?)

God seems to always exist outside the space of Earth's atmosphere. With no gravity out there, lifting should be easy...though I don't think you can properly lift something in the vacuum of space.

No, you lifted the book from the earth. You just used your feet...Gravitation exists between two objects, so if you overcome the gravitational pull, you lift the one object from the other and vice versa. Gravitation does not work one-way, which means I am indeed lifting the earth from the book if I chose to interpret "lifting" as a movement along a direction from my toes to my head.

@ Bann-ed: You're evading the question. Suppose god were to create an area of space where gravity applied, then.

@ Beleriand: It occurs to me that I probably should have thought of that. You win that point, but what's the relation to the original question?

Ooooh, if it's an engraved invitation I might convert to Atheism, I've never gotten an engraved invitation before! (Of course they're probably handing out invites to pagans too).

I got an engraved invitation once. It was to attend a cocktail party at the home of the Austrian Ambassador to the USA. It was a lovely invitation! And the cocktail party was a lovely occasion. So I can recommend engraved invitations.

Ooh ooh read my mind next!

She actually stated that reason in another thread.

Here is your problem, you try to associate human qualities with one who is beyond humanity's shortcomings. Until you realize that, then you will continue to make foolish comments such as this one I've quoted.

Beyond humanity's shortcomings and also beyond humanity's understanding, correct? 'He works in mysterious ways' is a common phrase in your religion, is it not? Honestly, the Faithful can keep telling me over and over and over what God wants from us, but it is only humanity's interpritation of His word. God is above humans. Is it not arrogant to assume that one can understand the will of God?

Perhaps I personify God in an attempt to better understand Him as you personify the workings of the world as God to better understand your place in it?

@ Bann-ed: You're evading the question. Suppose god were to create an area of space where gravity applied, then.

@ Beleriand: It occurs to me that I probably should have thought of that. You win that point, but what's the relation to the original question?What was your question again? And was it reasonable within physics? Because, you know, there are limits to the mass an object can have and sustain its structure.

@ Bann-ed: You're evading the question. Suppose god were to create an area of space where gravity applied, then.


No offense, but what question?

The inane question of whether or not God can create something with so much mass that he cannot lift it?

The question is about as relevant and answerable as "If a tree falls in a forest and no one hears it, does it still make a sound?".

No, but maybe you would get a shack next to Satan.

SWEET!

But if god is all powerful, he should be able to MAKE it make sense in the real universe.

If god is all powerful, then she can do any darned thing she pleases. So sure, if she wanted to, she could make a really big rock that she couldn't lift. Until she decided she DID want to lift it. All up to god, really, at that point, isn't it?

The problem with silly questions is that they only have silly answers.

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one hears it, does it still make a sound?".But yet, there are folks who seem to have a problem with that. Mainly because of their inherent anthropocentrism.

Beleriand: The question is whether an all-powerful being could create an object he could not move. It's not reasonable within physics, no, but neither is the concept of an all-powerful god, since such a concept means that said god is capable of violating the laws in question.

Bann-ed: It's quite relevant, actually, since the paradox it presents can be used to disprove the concept of god's omnipotence.

Define sodomy please.

"Sex I think is icky"

If god is all powerful, then she can do any darned thing she pleases. So sure, if she wanted to, she could make a really big rock that she couldn't lift. Until she decided she DID want to lift it. All up to god, really, at that point, isn't it?

The problem with silly questions is that they only have silly answers.

Double post, though it might not be by the time I finish.

Then could she make an object that was permanently outside her power to lift?

Then could she make an object that was permanently outside her power to lift?That depends on whether that is supposed to happen in this universe.

I wonder what happened to the OP!

In any universe.

In any universe.There is no way to make any meaningful statement about other universes.
In this universe it would be possible if "god" had access to some kind of antigravitation. Maybe he should ask Q....

Double post, though it might not be by the time I finish.

Then could she make an object that was permanently outside her power to lift?

My answer to this question is:

If god is all powerful, then she can do any darned thing she pleases. So sure, if she wanted to, she could make a really big rock that she permanently couldn't lift. Until she decided she DID want to lift it, and changed the definition of permanent. All up to god, really, isn't it?

Once again, the problem with silly questions is that they continue to only have silly answers.

So you're saying no, it's not possible in this universe, Beleriand?

Botswavia is dodging the question, so I'm just gonna stop talking to them...
(I have to go, so I'll voice my counter to your most probable objection now: you're dodging the question because you're using what you're trying to prove in the answer. That's wrong.)

I would not be surprised if Red Baptism and Imperial Brazil are both the same guy.
No, I believe in free enterprise. Red Baptism is looney as far as I am concerned.

He seemed to be very much against the idea. "Render unto Ceaser..." et cetera.
Yes, and what was Caesar's due? Nothing.

TROLL FIGHT!
Sir, I am no troll.

So you're saying no, it's not possible in this universe, Beleriand?

Botswavia is dodging the question, so I'm just gonna stop talking to them...
(I have to go, so I'll voice my counter to your most probable objection now: you're dodging the question because you're using what you're trying to prove in the answer. That's wrong.)


I am absolutely NOT dodging the question. I am answering it in the only way possible. You posit an all powerful god. I say if that is the case, then yes, god can create a paradox. And then create a solution. What is wrong with that answer?

If I were to say that god could only create the unliftable rock, but then was not able to change reality so that she could lift it, I would be saying that god is NOT all powerful, which would not fill the terms of the question. Likewise if I say god could not create such a rock.

The ONLY answer to the question is "Yes, if an all powerful god exists, she can create a rock so big she can't lift it and then she can change the rules of infinity to be able to lift that rock."

It is a silly question. Sorry. But I think the NEXT question is the important one. That question is "Is there such a god?" and I believe the answer is "no".

Yes, and what was Caesar's due? Nothing.

Care to prove that Caesar's due was nothing?

Sir, I am no troll.

Um...yea.

Bann-ed: It's quite relevant, actually, since the paradox it presents can be used to disprove the concept of god's omnipotence.

Yay or Nay?

Nay.

I think Botswavia explained it nicely.