NationStates Jolt Archive

I know that a lot of people here are atheists.I would like to know your reasons for becoming atheist.

My reason is that I find it hard to believe any religion. I went to a Catholic school for eight years, and during that time I found several contradictions in the Christian faith. Given enough time, I learned, you can find fault in almost any religion.

im an atheist because none of the stories about gods are true.

if there should be some other undefined "god" out there, ill consider believing in him after he shows himself.

I don't have nor "need" a reason for being an atheist, just like I don't have nor "need" a reason not to believe in pixies. Present me a pixie and I'll change my mind. Until then, I'll see them as the literary invention they are.

I'm an atheist because I've heard a lot of arguments here on NSG coming from christian (it having been the religion I kinda used to be part of, but never really was anyway): They all suck.

The best part about it? I can cherry-pick the good stories from the bible and throw away the bad ones. Oppression of women, homosexuals and others? No thank you. Being kind to your neighbor? Yes please!

Which is why I respect people such as Smunkeeville - while they might not be able to convince me to believe in any deity or some such, I can certainly agree with regards to a lot of ethical issues. Not all, of course.

Well, I was born atheist. I didn't become a Christian until I went to primary school, where religion was taught as fact. At secondary school I developed the ability to think critically and the belief fell apart.

I don't have nor "need" a reason for being an atheist, just like I don't have nor "need" a reason not to believe in pixies. Present me a pixie and I'll change my mind. Until then, I'll see them as the literary invention they are.

I agree with you to a point, I have no reason to identify as atheist, I'm one simply because I do not believe. However, if someone was to present me with a pixie (or a god), I'd probably still not believe because it'd strike me as much more likely to be something beyond my current understanding, but potentially not any more supernatural than any other creature.

I didn't realise I needed one :confused:

I became an Atheist when I realized that God was a fiction designed to keep the people enslaved to superstition.

Wouldn't it be funny if somebody asked for people's reasons for lacking belief in Zeus? Or Santa? Or Darth Vader?

My reason for being an athiest is quite simply that I have no need for superstitious beliefs, however dressed up in "gravitas" and moral imperitives they may claim to hold, it's still just "Pie in the sky".

"Well, I was born atheist."
I like this. There is no universal reason that people "become" or are athiests. The notion of becoming something indicates a choice, which may be very pertinent to some. This could be a consious reaction due to organized teachings of religion. Then you also have some that don't "decide" (or become). They are open to ideas, but do not act or believe on blind faith. I for myself understand religion as a human cultural construct in that is is a reaction to environmental and social stimuli. It is the attempt to answer the same questions as science and philosophy...they are all intertwined. My problem is with organized religion and the resistance to accecpt new and reliable information as not to lose its "market share" of followers. I also have issues with believing in things, such as God or Jesus being the son of God, just because. But I don't discount greater "powers" than myself. For instance, the power of the human collective or the individual and the power of the physical laws of the universe that we know or may not know. We don't need to seperate all these ways of understanding, it is power that corrupts and segregates these various routes of human understanding.

Surely those believers in superstition should be justifying their belief to us?

A complete inability to accept things on faith or believe in them without evidence. I am a natural skeptic and I always return to being a skeptic if I ever dabble in some sort of religion.

For a significant portion of my life I thought that was a fault, my inability to have faith. I now see it as a virtue because faith itself harms society in so many ways, from preventing civil rights to those who deserve them, to slowing scientific progress, and placing lives in danger across the world.

I dunno, there might be some fairly compelling reasons to believe in Darth Vader ...

As for being an atheist, evolution as it pertains to human physiology (knees and eyes, for instance) destroys the idea of intelligent design: knees not meant to last and eyes with a blindspot = fail.

Surely those believers in superstition should be justifying their belief to us?
I've tried starting threads on that subject, but they always go off topic within a couple pages.

I'm geniunely interested in hearing why people believe in God, but they usually feel the need to tangent off into specifics of WHAT they believe and why it's mean for other people to criticize them, instead of talking about specifically WHY they believe as they do.

I am atheist because I am a man of science and reason, not of blind belief and faith in a supreme being of which there is no proof of his existence.

Even the bible, the end all be all reference guide for Christians, has conflicting creation and flood myths. I do believe, however, that the Bible is benefitical in that it reflects many of the moral values that contemporary society holds dear such as how lying, stealing, and killing is wrong and how kindness and generosity are encouraged,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis

"The Wellhausen (or Graf-Wellhausen) hypothesis"

I respect the ideas of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhist, Hedonist etc etc. Ironically, I have found more tolerance of diverse religious views among fellow atheists than of those who are religious.

If religion is your cup of tea, by all means practice it. However, I would prefer to base my religious views on facts and experience rather than blind faith.

It makes me a better person.

Atheism is a bunch of lies founded on no evidence. *


*since people get to come in the Christian threads and make pointless comments, I can do the same thing with this thread.

Atheism is a bunch of lies founded on no evidence. *


*since people get to come in the Christian threads and make pointless comments, I can do the same thing with this thread.
And Jesus spake unto the people, saying, "Yea, and thou shalt be like unto rubber, whilst the heathen shalt be like unto glue, and whatsoever they say shall bounceth off of thee and stick unto their heathen arses. Also, they started it."

I agree with you to a point, I have no reason to identify as atheist, I'm one simply because I do not believe. However, if someone was to present me with a pixie (or a god), I'd probably still not believe because it'd strike me as much more likely to be something beyond my current understanding, but potentially not any more supernatural than any other creature.

The hypothetical is that they present you a bona-fide, "supernatural" pixie/deity. Since the "supernatural" is a nonsensical load of hooey, you'd be an idiot to accept it without seeing what sort of lie they're trying to feed you.

And Jesus spake unto the people, saying, "Yea, and thou shalt be like unto rubber, whilst the heathen shalt be like unto glue, and whatsoever they say shall bounceth off of thee and stick unto their heathen arses. Also, they started it."

Hey, I am doing all I can to further the ignorance of NSG.

If religion is your cup of tea, by all means practice it. However, I would prefer to base my religious views on facts and experience rather than blind faith.

If your views are based on facts and not blind faith, then they're not religious.

Atheism is a bunch of lies founded on no evidence. *


*since people get to come in the Christian threads and make pointless comments, I can do the same thing with this thread.

So...you agree that your critique of atheism is fooey and that an attempt to critique it will an intellectual argument is fruitless? I would further be interested in your evidence for your personal belief system. I would guess that most evidence FOR YOUR BELIEF SYSTEM are stories that are inderctly handed down to you indrectly that you have not verified yourself. I am not directly criticizing this notion, because we all do this with information on a daily basis, but some of us choose not to base our fundamental way of life around pivotal information that cannot be verified. Oh yeah...that is faith.

Hey, I am doing all I can to further the ignorance of NSG.
How very Christlike of you!

Blah blah blah I can prove you wrong cuz you ain't go no proof. Blah Blah blah You believe in magical men cuz of a book blah blah blah

I only believe because of my experiences in life. If it weren't for that, I'd likely be an atheist myself.

Conversion to atheism is an unspoken request to be plunged into a fiery abyss. Pray for those lost souls who make such misguided mistakes.

Conversion to atheism is an unspoken request to be plunged into a fiery abyss. Pray for those lost souls who make such misguided mistakes.
Can I keep him? I'll feed him lots and take him for walkies every day, I promise!

How very Christlike of you!

I think Christ-like deserves a dash. Very important.

How very Christlike of you!

To be honest, the furthering of the Christ-myth is not exactly the furthering of the latest issue of Nature or The Lancet.

If your views are based on facts and not blind faith, then they're not religious.

He who does not have faith has no prospect of salvation. I am afraid things do not bode well for your afterlife.

Can I keep him? I'll feed him lots and take him for walkies every day, I promise!

I am not yours to keep. Ownership of my being belongs to the Lord.

He who does not have faith has no prospect of salvation. I am afraid things do not bode well for your afterlife.
This is like the best Magic 8-ball ever.

"Does not bode well for your afterlife."

"Signs point to brimstone."

"No, and you're damned for asking."

He who does not have faith has no prospect of salvation. I am afraid things do not bode well for your afterlife.

God, you religious puppet trolls are boring. Another one for the ignore list - and whoever you are that are the puppet master, you make these fora more sucky with your unoriginal attempts at trolling. You could have chosen something that there isn't already a puppet troll for like that Brazil thingy? Get a shtick of your own.

To be honest, the furthering of the Christ-myth is not exactly the furthering of the latest issue of Nature or The Lancet.

Christ went through unspeakable agony to save heathens like yourself. Your rejection of his sacrifice is an affront to the Lord Himself.

How very Christlike of you!

How very Dawkinslike of you!

I only believe because of my experiences in life. If it weren't for that, I'd likely be an atheist myself.

Wow. Never attempted to discount your beliefe system. I was genuinely showing interest, not that this is the correct place for this exchange of info. In any event, my posting was not a specific damnation, it was a discussion of information and how individuals choose to utilize it.

How very Dawkinslike of you!
Wow, you're comparing Dawkins to the Son of God?

:shock:

I thought it was the atheists who were supposed to worship him!

Wow. Never attempted to discount your beliefe system. I was genuinely showing interest, not that this is the correct place for this exchange of info. In any event, my posting was not a specific damnation, it was a discussion of information and how individuals choose to utilize it.


Sorry, you don't know the ways of NSG. IF you have faith of any kind, you are condemned to being attacked by everyone. They are the most intolerant bunch on here.

Sorry, you don't know the ways of NSG. IF you have faith of any kind, you are condemned to being attacked by everyone. They are the most intolerant bunch on here.

more like a very loud intolerant minority. For the most part people haven't been mean to me.

more like a very loud intolerant minority. For the most part people haven't been mean to me.

2nd timothy 3:12.

Sorry, you don't know the ways of NSG. IF you have faith of any kind, you are condemned to being attacked by everyone. They are the most intolerant bunch on here.
No problem...not offended. I find that non-believers/atheists/etc. are reactionary to a history of what comes off as self-righteous judgment by religious individuals. For instance, the sharing the gospel of Christ is part of the organized structure, whether it is insideous to get followers to add to coffers or because followers genuinely feel they are helping others to save their souls. Many athiest that I know don't have a problem with people believing what they want (even though they believe believers are inherently wrong), they react to this need by religious folks they come in contact with to impress their belief system upon them. Then we get a vicious circle as reaction becomes heightened over time; reactions garner heightened reactions. I too have issues with what is really judgements upon others from believers, even though this seems to be hypocritical to the teachings for non-judgement.

I know that a lot of people here are atheists.I would like to know your reasons for becoming atheist.

My reason is that I find it hard to believe any religion. I went to a Catholic school for eight years, and during that time I found several contradictions in the Christian faith. Given enough time, I learned, you can find fault in almost any religion.

There are such things as non-religious theists. We believe some force made the universe, but that most religions are wrong about it.

Sorry, you don't know the ways of NSG. IF you have faith of any kind, you are condemned to being attacked by everyone. They are the most intolerant bunch on here.

A hellbound lot, they are. I will pray that they are born anew as stalwart righteous followers of God's Word.

Who needs a god when you have gary coleman?
And AC/DC?
And Ray Charles?
And Dick Cheney?
Those are the real gods

Christ went through unspeakable agony to save heathens like yourself. Your rejection of his sacrifice is an affront to the Lord Himself.

Erm, actually, his rejection is only the effect of him using his free will, which God gave him, by the way. Also, if you look closely at the title of this thread, it is only for atheists who want to share their reasons for being so. I was reading because it is an interesting topic, but I wasn't going to stick my nose somewhere it's not meant to go. I am a Christian and I want to apologize for all the Christian morons who open their mouths to spew all sorts of ignorance and make the rest of us look bad.

Well, I am jewish, but I am also athiest. I consider myself jewish, but I don't believe in god, I believe in the m theory and the big bang...pretty much I go with science because it's believable and true. Also, take a look at the circumstances....

1. Who invented who, did God invent humans, or did humans invent god, I go with number 2.

2. Also, religions, heavly christianity, but also others, always talk about not sinning and going to HEAVEN, so if heavens so great, why live??? just kill youself now and go and live a perfect life....you see the contradictory matter here.

3. There are so many religions in the world, that it just dosn't make snece for any one group to be right, and so that is why I lean heavily to Atheism.

THERE IS NO GOD PEOPLE, LIFE JUST SUCKS AND HAS PRETTY MUCH NO MEENING, GET USED TO IT, JUST DO YOUR BEST, AND LIVE YOUR LIFE!

Well, I am jewish, but I am also athiest. I consider myself jewish, but I don't believe in god, I believe in the m' theory and the big bang...pretty much I go with science because it's believable and true. Also, take a look at the circumstances....

1. Who invented who, did God invent humans, or did humans invent god, I go with number 2.

2. Also, religions, heavly christianity, but also others, always talk about not sinning and going to HEAVEN, so if heavens so great, why live??? just kill youself now and go and live a perfect life....you see the contradictory matter here.

3. There are so many religions in the world, that it just dosn't make sence for any one group to be right, and so that is why I lean heavily to Atheism.

THERE IS NO GOD PEOPLE, LIFE JUST SUCKS AND HAS PRETTY MUCH NO MEENING, GET USED TO IT, JUST DO YOUR BEST, AND LIVE YOUR LIFE!

THERE IS NO GOD PEOPLE, LIFE JUST SUCKS AND HAS PRETTY MUCH NO MEENING, GET USED TO IT, JUST DO YOUR BEST, AND LIVE YOUR LIFE!

So say all heathens before their immersion in hellfire. I will pray that you accept God so you can avoid such a nasty fate.

Why am I an Atheist? I guess it doesn't hurt that my parents are agnostic, with my dad harbouring a strong dislike of the Catholic church. I was never disciplined for telling the Christian Fellowship at my high school that "religion is bullshit". In fact, my dad thought it was funny. My parents never made religion or theism a big thing.

So say all heathens before their immersion in hellfire. I will pray that you accept God so you can avoid such a nasty fate.

You can pray till you're blue in the face and it won't change the fact that your god does not answer your prayers. I guess he doesn't answer them because well... he doesn't exist.

You can pray till you're blue in the face and it won't change the fact that your god does not answer your prayers. I guess he doesn't answer them because well... he doesn't exist.

My prayers are always answered. The one exception to the rule may well be my prayer that you may be saved. With statements like yours, you may be beyond salvation. Weep for yourself and your children.

He who does not have faith has no prospect of salvation. I am afraid things do not bode well for your afterlife.

Afterlife, the other other white lie.

Can I keep him? I'll feed him lots and take him for walkies every day, I promise!

Better get him neutered first >.>

My prayers are always answered. The one exception to the rule may well be my prayer that you may be saved. With statements like yours, you may be beyond salvation. Weep for yourself and your children.

I thought everyone could be saved up until their last breath? Contradiction anyone?

Afterlife, the other other white lie.

Racism is a sin. So is blasphemy.

Sorry, you don't know the ways of NSG. IF you have faith of any kind, you are condemned to being attacked by everyone. They are the most intolerant bunch on here.

If only that were true.

Better get him neutered first >.>

That is very cruel. Why are you so filled with hate? :(

Racism is a sin. So is blasphemy.

Are you truly that stupid? White lie, an idiom for a lie that is supposedly insignificant and has no reprecussions...

My prayers are always answered. The one exception to the rule may well be my prayer that you may be saved. With statements like yours, you may be beyond salvation. Weep for yourself and your children.

I have nothing to weep for; I do not need salvation. Religion is a crutch for those who can't figure out how to be a good person without being led around by the hand, forever suspended in childhood. At least for those whose whole existence depends on their religious faith.

That is very cruel. Why are you so filled with hate? :(

Hate? :( I don't hate you at all. You are confusing Hate with Humor. Different pages of the dictionary, friend. ^.~

Racism is a sin.How so? The biblical god is deeply racist.

How so? The biblical god is deeply racist.

No, but rabid anti-Semites like you are.

I don't need a special reason to be an atheist. I just simply don't believe in god. There's nothing wrong with that is there?

No, but rabid anti-Semites like you are.It's not my fault that Judaism is a lie, and that subsequently Christianity and Islam are as well lies.

I don't need a special reason to be an atheist. I just simply don't believe in god. There's nothing wrong with that is there?Nope.

No, but rabid anti-Semites like you are.Where the hell did that come from?

I would like to know your reasons for becoming atheist.
Everyone starts as an athiest.

It's not possible to hold rational beliefs in the absence of experiences, and when you're born you haven't had any experiences, yet. So, everyone starts as an athiest.

Which means it isn't necessary to become one. A more interesting question would be to ask theists why they are theists, because they had to have stopped being atheists somewhere along the way.

Where the hell did that come from?Oh, I suppose I am pretty well known for my opposition to everything about Judaism and what derives from it.

No reason here either. My parents never talked about religion with me, so when I was old enough to learn what religion was in school it was probably too late for me to see it as anything but silly stories.

I suspect now that my mother believes in god, but my parents apparently wanted us kids to form our own opinions and beliefs. It was the same with politics; I still don't know how my parents vote. I've asked, but they refuse to tell.

2nd timothy 3:12.

Look up 'apriorism' in a dictionary, then sit in a corner and think about what you've just said.

I don't need a special reason to be an atheist. I just simply don't believe in god. There's nothing wrong with that is there?

Yes, there is.

Yes, there is.

Whould you care to tell what, then?

Yes, there is.

I say there is plenty wrong with being religious. But now you're going to claim I'm trolling or that I'm some how discriminating against you. Yet, in your eyes, it's probably fine to say that there is something wrong with being an atheist.

Oh, I suppose I am pretty well known for my opposition to everything about Judaism and what derives from it.That's not anti-Semitism. Hell, it's a point of view you have in common with most Semites, though for different reasons.

Christ went through unspeakable agony to save heathens like yourself. Your rejection of his sacrifice is an affront to the Lord Himself.
Agony he WANTED to experience. As an omnipotent being, he could have saved us without going through the suffering, so he chose to suffer regardless of the other outcomes.

I think that makes God a masochist.

I realized that the torah (aka the old testament) was full of inconsistencies and vile, vile statements.

I know that a lot of people here are atheists.I would like to know your reasons for becoming atheist.

My reason is that I find it hard to believe any religion. I went to a Catholic school for eight years, and during that time I found several contradictions in the Christian faith. Given enough time, I learned, you can find fault in almost any religion.


I got hooked on atheism when I was pretty young. At first I tried it just to be cool. It seemed all the hip guys were atheists and they were getting laid by all the cute hippy chicks. Well.... I thought I'd just be atheist for a while... You know... I could quit whenever I wanted to. It didn't turn out that way. Once you start to question the silly stories you've been told all your life, it's impossible to go back. Eventually, you don't stop with just questioning.. You can't get the same truth high by just doubting - you start actively disbelieving. Then you're on a one-way ride to humanism. For any of you youngsters out there flirting with Atheism - I say stay in church. Doubt is something you just don't want to deal with. Just keep your head down and pray. Once you start questioning things, your life gets too complicated.

I got hooked on atheism when I was pretty young. At first I tried it just to be cool. It seemed all the hip guys were atheists and they were getting laid by all the cute hippy chicks. Well.... I thought I'd just be atheist for a while... You know... I could quit whenever I wanted to. It didn't turn out that way. Once you start to question the silly stories you've been told all your life, it's impossible to go back. Eventually, you don't stop with just questioning.. You can't get the same truth high by just doubting - you start actively disbelieving. Then you're on a one-way ride to humanism. For any of you youngsters out there flirting with Atheism - I say stay in church. Doubt is something you just don't want to deal with. Just keep your head down and pray. Once you start questioning things, your life gets too complicated.

I was that way, too. I got addicted. Try the gum, you'll break that habit right away!

I was that way, too. I got addicted. Try the gum, you'll break that habit right away!

I quit atheism cold turkey.

And so can you!
/advertisement

I quit atheism cold turkey.

And so can you!
/advertisement

Wow, that's tough. I tried cold turkey, but whenever I was sitting there, praying, I'd get cravings.

"Our Father,
Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy--

But wait, the ontological proof is fallacious!"

Wow, that's tough. I tried cold turkey, but whenever I was sitting there, praying, I'd get cravings.

"Our Father,
Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy--

But wait, the ontological proof is fallacious!"

That's when you have the priest stuff the cold turkey down your throat.

By definition I'm agnostic. It would be incredibly arrogant of me to say I know anything for sure, to say that my limited human mind can explain the universe. But I still am an atheist, in a sense that while I don't believe in truth of any kind, I give as much consideration to a god as I do to unicorns.

If there is a creator of such high intelligence, he would be far too advanced to empathize in human affairs.

I've tried starting threads on that subject, but they always go off topic within a couple pages.

I'm geniunely interested in hearing why people believe in God, but they usually feel the need to tangent off into specifics of WHAT they believe and why it's mean for other people to criticize them, instead of talking about specifically WHY they believe as they do.

Here it comes from a Theist.

I believe in God because of the pehonmena that connot be explained by science or mathematics. The deeper realsms of subatomic physics, accounts of those who claim to have been on the brink of death, and various "miracles" if you will that have occured in modern times. I found belief in God throught thought and analysis, rather than being indoctorinated as a child. My reasons are pretty much scoff fodder for you, but hey.

I know that a lot of people here are atheists.I would like to know your reasons for becoming atheist.

My reason is that I find it hard to believe any religion. I went to a Catholic school for eight years, and during that time I found several contradictions in the Christian faith. Given enough time, I learned, you can find fault in almost any religion.

You can have your own belief system. Personally, I do not practice organized religion, because it's illogical to expect people to accept a set of beliefs freely that conform to a particular religious doctrine.

I'm an atheist because basing my life around superstitions is utterly naive to an extreme degree... among other reasons.

And whoever that Red Baptism or whatever is... Obvious Troll is Obvious.

That's when you have the priest stuff the cold turkey down your throat.
Cold turkey? Is that what he's calling it, these days?

That's when you have the priest stuff the cold turkey down your throat.

Oh, but I'm of legal age, you see, so that option wasn't available.

Cold turkey? Is that what he's calling it, these days?

Oh, but I'm of legal age, you see, so that option wasn't available.

As soon as I posted that, I realized how bad it sounded. :p

Wouldn't it be funny if somebody asked for people's reasons for lacking belief in Zeus? Or Santa? Or Darth Vader?

That's a perfectly legitimate question.

Made even more interesting if the person being asked asserts that those entities do not exist.

I believe in God because of the pehonmena that connot be explained by science or mathematics. The deeper realsms of subatomic physics, accounts of those who claim to have been on the brink of death, and various "miracles" if you will that have occured in modern times. I found belief in God throught thought and analysis, rather than being indoctorinated as a child. My reasons are pretty much scoff fodder for you, but hey.

I hear you man. I have no problem with atheists or atheism, I just disagree.

My reasons: I don't need a reason to believe or not to believe. I don't have to explain and neither does anyone else. Religion is best left to conversation where people do not insult or criticize the belief or lack thereof in deities/ a deity, but rather simply discuss in a purely impartial manner. This is the only way I have been able to reconcile my relationships with atheists, Mormons, Muslims, Jews, Catholics, and myself a Protestant - respect. (Same goes for political beliefs.)

How I came to my current conclusions is a difficult story. I was, as all children in a fairly conservative household, brought up with the belief in God and Christianity. As I came to my teenage years, I realized that many people reject this, are members of a different religion, or even just despise all religion. I was severely confused. (Now, I could say that 'I found God again' or 'God guided me through'. I believe both of these are true; however, neither are conducive to my argument. Let me say this: I believe that my thoughts and actions are known by God, and he influences me only through worldly belief and teachings. I believe that he works through us.) I share none of the same religions of my close friends. I came to the conclusion that Christianity is simply one path to God, and there are many, many others. Christianity, and through that, my practice of Presbyterianism, is simply my path. I refuse to believe that simply because he who does not believe in Christ doesn't mean he is damned to hell. Accepting Christ is just one way to repent and atone for one's sins. If that means I disagree with my church, then that's that.

True, I cannot prove or disprove God's existence. That makes me Agnostic. I do not know. But if I practice organized religion, does that mean I'm not Agnostic? Does labeling myself as Agnostic mean I'm not Christian? Neither. I'm quite simply just a person who observed the wonders of the natural world and refuse to believe it a work or random effects. I find Christianity to be one of the paths you can take to God, and like all paths, can be deviated from and misinterpreted on the map (map is metaphor for 'scripture, interpretation, and theology'). I choose to Believe this. Call me ignorant, call me naive, but that will not change my beliefs.

I hear you man. I have no problem with atheists or atheism, I just disagree.

My reasons: I don't need a reason to believe or not to believe. I don't have to explain and neither does anyone else. Religion is best left to conversation where people do not insult or criticize the belief or lack thereof in deities/ a deity, but rather simply discuss in a purely impartial manner. This is the only way I have been able to reconcile my relationships with atheists, Mormons, Muslims, Jews, Catholics, and myself a Protestant - respect. (Same goes for political beliefs.).

I totally agree...

lack of faith.

This is like the best Magic 8-ball ever.

"Does not bode well for your afterlife."

"Signs point to brimstone."

"No, and you're damned for asking."

i would totally buy one of those

I'm geniunely interested in hearing why people believe in God, but they usually feel the need to tangent off into specifics of WHAT they believe and why it's mean for other people to criticize them, instead of talking about specifically WHY they believe as they do.

the best reason i've ever encountered is direct personal experience with the divine. of course, the people promoting such a reason tend to have some problems when it comes time to explain why these mystical experiences are a cross-cultural phenomenon, and why the sort of experience a person has and its content seem to map remarkably well onto preexisting patterns of belief.

maybe the gods are just fucking with us?

Though we're in the 7th page and most people have given up caring, I'll throw in my two cents. My parents were both former Christians who lost their faith some time around or after high school. When I was born, there was no Christianity in our house, though most of our family was still religious (if not all practicing). As I grew up I ran into the small amounts of religion within the schools, but most of it was already secularized, Christmas as one example (and yes, we still celebrated that at my house, though there was no religious significance). Once I got into middle and high school and started thinking about where I stood, since I never had before, I decided I was to be agnostic since I wasn't sure at the time.

The more I studied religion, the more I saw the similarities to which religions had, and their differences. Their differences were within their stories and supernatural parts (compare the Ramayana to the Gospels), but the basic values they taught were more or less the same. Though some were adjusted for cultural reasons that grew out of environmental concerns (such as pork and circumcision in Judaism, and why such acts were thrown off in Christianity), many were very basic ideas. When I studied the ideas further I learned that the reason these ideas are important is not because God says so or because Mohammad did it, they were important to allow groups to survive.

Thievery would sow distrust in a community and cause instability which would destroy the community and probably kill off most of the people. Adultery was a similar problem in small communities. Yet after religions were able to spread and thrive, they became less so. Religion, while holding up society, was not useful for its connection to otherworldly things, but because it was a stabilizer within society. When that failed to be the case (like right before the Reformation), it either changed or died.

The book Evolution for Everyone by David Sloan Wilson touches on this subject (as well as other parts of society and science), but also does not try to disprove religion or God. It simply shows how religion can and has been evolutionary, as can most anything. I think at one point he even stated that he tried not to come off like Dawkins and attack religion but more just tried to show how it came about in relation to society. He goes on stating that whether it truly did come from a holy source or not was not what he was discussing and could very well be true.

Surely those believers in superstition should be justifying their belief to us?

All right, then I will: I believe in God because:

1. The universe, and the earth with its plant and animal life and atmospheric phenomena, are so complex and intricately designed and interdependent that it could not have happened by accident.

2. Cause and effect: God was the First Cause, the universe and everything in it is the effect.

3. My conscience tells me there is a God.

4. He became a flesh-and-blood human being, in the person of Jesus Christ, and shed His blood to pay for my sins so I wouldn't have to pay for them eternally in Hell, and I could live with Him in Heaven forever.

5. As a believer in Him, I have a promise from Him of a mansion in His Father's house (John 14:2-3).

All right, then I will: I believe in God because:

1. The universe, and the earth with its plant and animal life and atmospheric phenomena, are so complex and intricately designed and interdependent that it could not have happened by accident.

2. Cause and effect: God was the First Cause, the universe and everything in it is the effect.

3. My conscience tells me there is a God.

4. He became a flesh-and-blood human being, in the person of Jesus Christ, and shed His blood to pay for my sins so I wouldn't have to pay for them eternally in Hell, and I could live with Him in Heaven forever.

5. As a believer in Him, I have a promise from Him of a mansion in His Father's house (John 14:2-3).

1. Well, one accident could simply lead on to another, creating what appears to be one big accident but is really many smaller ones.
2. What created God, huh? Can't have something if it isn't created by something else.
3. Conscience tells you so? Naw. That's the generations of tales and stories passed down.
4. Prove that Jesus wasn't just another fanatic.
5. So bribery can get me anywhere with you? Hmm...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

For me, I just see no logic in believing a god exists. There is no solid proof. Granted, there also isn't any proof he doesn't exist, but I will not believe in something that has no proof behind its existence.

To piss of theists and eat babies.

All right, then I will: I believe in God because:

1. The universe, and the earth with its plant and animal life and atmospheric phenomena, are so complex and intricately designed and interdependent that it could not have happened by accident.

Irreducible complexity has been shown to be crap. lrn2evolve


2. Cause and effect: God was the First Cause, the universe and everything in it is the effect.

What caused God, then? And if God is able to be immune from this rule, why can't the universe?


3. My conscience tells me there is a God.

That's not evidence, that's just a hunch.

4. He became a flesh-and-blood human being, in the person of Jesus Christ, and shed His blood to pay for my sins so I wouldn't have to pay for them eternally in Hell, and I could live with Him in Heaven forever.

Ridiculous. You're assuming that your claim is true, and then using a part of that claim to prove said claim.

5. As a believer in Him, I have a promise from Him of a mansion in His Father's house (John 14:2-3).
But how can that be an argument to believe? That assumes that you already believe in the first place.

All right, then I will: I believe in God because:

1. The universe, and the earth with its plant and animal life and atmospheric phenomena, are so complex and intricately designed and interdependent that it could not have happened by accident.

2. Cause and effect: God was the First Cause, the universe and everything in it is the effect.

3. My conscience tells me there is a God.

4. He became a flesh-and-blood human being, in the person of Jesus Christ, and shed His blood to pay for my sins so I wouldn't have to pay for them eternally in Hell, and I could live with Him in Heaven forever.

5. As a believer in Him, I have a promise from Him of a mansion in His Father's house (John 14:2-3).

1. The universe is connected due to a variety of happenstances and evolutions that allowed us to survive today. For example: Trees don't excrete oxygen so we can breathe, we managed to evolve because oxygen was excreted in the plant process.

2. Makes sense to me, since the Big Bang theory is just about as plausible.

3. Can't argue with something inside your head.

4. Sure..

5. Room service provided?

I don't believe in gods for the same reason I don't believe in faeries.

By definition I'm agnostic. It would be incredibly arrogant of me to say I know anything for sure, to say that my limited human mind can explain the universe.
Why?

Your limited human mind is what you are. It's your tool for understanding and shaping the world, and ultimately your tool for life. If you're saying your mind is too limited to understand the universe, aren't you saying that your mind is limited in its capacity for living in it? Aren't you saying that you are only capable of life up to some non-specified level? Just because we don't have all the facts discovered yet doesn't mean that we are incapable of understanding in principle.

And that's why I'm an atheist, by the way. I have seen no proof based on reason, logic or otherwise thought for the existence of a god. In fact, there are issues with assuming that there is such a god (for example the problem of omnipotence being a contradiction).

"Faith" as in "unthinking belief" actively requires you to ignore reality as you can perceive of it using your rational mind to some extent. To that extent it requires you to be blind, helpless, some pointless blob of matter drifting in emptiness, such that those who tell you what and how to believe in can shape your existence to their liking.

In so far as our ability to think rationally about causes, effects and so on is our ability to survive, I value my life rather too highly to be religious or in any other way rely on the irrational to give me meaning.

Because I don't have the need to believe.

for example the problem of omnipotence being a contradiction
Your definition of an omnipotent being is interpreted by me (correct me if I'm wrong) to mean an absolute choice between omnipotence and impotence. (Chuckles at subtle interpretation). Of course, there is the idea that God could be omnipotent, but simply choose not to exercise those powers? How do we know anything about God and his thoughts? For example, he could have designed an entire universe and omnipotently controlling everything to the minuscule motions of an atom; a perfect world, if you will. He could have gotten bored, decided 'hey what if I like made pplz with free wills' or something? Our interpretation of the world is probably very different from God's viewpoint. This is all assuming that God exists, which I believe but cannot assume.

Wouldn't it be funny if somebody asked for people's reasons for lacking belief in Zeus? Or Santa? Or Darth Vader?

Hey!

Darth Vader exists.



Saw several of him at a convention once.....

Who needs a god when you have gary coleman?
And AC/DC?
And Ray Charles?
And Dick Cheney?
Those are the real gods

God is Love

Love is Blind

Ray Charles is Blind

Thus:

Ray Charles is God

God is Love

Love is Blind

Ray Charles is Blind

Thus:

Ray Charles is God

If Ray Charles is God...and God is dead. Alas, Nietzsche was right. ;)

Ah, but if you believe in souls and afterlives like myself, the he is not dead, but has been freed from the physical world and now exists in a flawless reality that our minds, also bound to the physical world, cannot understand.

I love those 'if p then q' arguments. With syllogism thrown in as well.

snip

*shows approval in a sociological way*

I was a Christian before I did read the whole bible because such faith was "taught" by my parents, since my biblical reading I'm an agnostic. I admit one of the reasons was ideological as the bible seems to me as preaching a pretty conformist and submissive stance regarding the establishment, and a very conservative stance on all matters as well(it's no coincidence the majority of very devout people are conservatives). Maybe interests manipulated its content during the course of thousand years, but anyway, I don't believe in the Bible the way it is now. Now on the non-ideological, but rational reasons.

Some people took the care of noting the reasons why people who read the Bible with reason rather than blind faith tend to move to skepticism. Below are some of the reasons why I am almost sure this isn't the "word of God" if God does exist. Otherwise, if the Bible is the "word of God", then God is certainly evil and we are inevitably doomed.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/bilenbwframe.htm

I took the examples here:

Wife listed among property

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
-- Exodus 20:17 (AV), The Tenth Commandment


Christian women: be silent

National Bible Week Poster (right panel)Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
-- I Corinthians 14:34-35 (NIV)


Woman must marry rapist

If a man [meets] a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her ... He must marry the girl ... He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
-- Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (NIV)


Virgin women are war booty

"Have you allowed all the women to live?" he [Moses] asked them.... "Now ... kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."
-- Numbers 31:1-18 (NIV)

Beatings don't kill kids

Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod [sceptre], he shall not die.
-- Proverbs 23:13 (AV)

Execute stubborn kids

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son ... Then shall his father and his mother ... bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die.
-- Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (AV)


Kids killed for mocking hero

Some small boys came out of the city and jeered at [the prophet Elisha], saying, "Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!" And ... he cursed them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys.
-- II Kings 2:23-24 (RSV)


God orders child sacrifice

God did tempt Abraham, ... And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest ... and offer him there for a burnt offering...
-- Genesis 22:1-2 (AV)


Daughter: a burnt offering

National Bible Week Poster (left panel)Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: "If you give the Ammonites into my hands, whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return ... will be the Lord's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering." ... and the Lord gave them into his hands.... When Jephthah returned to his home..., who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of tambourines! And he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.
-- Judges 11:30-32, 34, 39 (NIV)

Those who disagree spurned

... all who are under the yoke of slavery ... who have believing masters ... must serve all the better since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. If any one teaches otherwise ... he is puffed up with conceit, he knows nothing; he has a morbid craving for controversy..., which produce envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among men who are depraved in mind...
-- I Timothy 6:1-5 (RSV)

How to mark your property

... thou shalt take an [awl], and thrust it through his ear..., and he shall be thy servant for ever.
-- Deuteronomy 15:17 (AV)

There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
-- Ezekiel 23:20 (NIV)

The Prince of Peace

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother...
-- Matthew 10:34-35 (AV)

Hmm... Interpretation, Social Circumstances when written, and the Figurative nature of the scriptures... well...

By the way, Isaac was not sacrificed. Nor does God ever ask this of anyone else, and was meant as a teaching that nothing is more important than your devotion to God, including family and love. Following God's word, however, means that God will never ask that of you unless it is for the good of all. In other words, you should be totally devoted to God. (Humanity is not perfect, and so through the Grace of God he forgives us.) That is my interpretation of that passage, anyway.

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother...
-- Matthew 10:34-35 (AV)
That passage is again meant to show that you have to be willing to sacrifice everything for God. It doesn't mean you have to, will have to, just that your devotion must be total. Once again, my interpretation.

Reading the Bible must be done with interpretation in mind. And not literal.

Your definition of an omnipotent being is interpreted by me (correct me if I'm wrong) to mean an absolute choice between omnipotence and impotence. (Chuckles at subtle interpretation). Of course, there is the idea that God could be omnipotent, but simply choose not to exercise those powers?
It's not so much about god as about the concept of omnipotence. There are potentialities in the universe that exclude each other, and an omnipotent being would be able to somehow ignore that and make both happen.

Or, in easier language: Could God microwave a Burito so hot that He can't eat it?

The only actual answer I ever got to that one was that my puny logic doesn't apply to God, which I find ridiculous. I suppose one could also say that these contradictions are on some level material in nature, and God isn't material. But I'd answer that an omnipotent being that is somehow limited by material reality isn't really omnipotent, is it.

Granted. I don't know whether he can microwave a burrito so hot he can't eat it, but if I ever meet Him I'll ask him. :D

I'd answer that God is not limited by anything, material or immaterial, and these distinctions are purely human in answer. But I don't really know. I can only have faith.

It's not so much about god as about the concept of omnipotence. There are potentialities in the universe that exclude each other, and an omnipotent being would be able to somehow ignore that and make both happen.

Or, in easier language: Could God microwave a Burito so hot that He can't eat it?

The only actual answer I ever got to that one was that my puny logic doesn't apply to God, which I find ridiculous. I suppose one could also say that these contradictions are on some level material in nature, and God isn't material. But I'd answer that an omnipotent being that is somehow limited by material reality isn't really omnipotent, is it.

Interestingly enough, the only answer I ever got for it, given by a professor of philosophy teaching a Philosophy of Religion class at my old uni, was "For the sake of this discussion, we pretty much have to assume deities are constrained by the bounds of logic."

I can only have faith.
See, this is something that isn't governed by the thinking part of your brain, and that you can't convince anyone of by strength of arguments. It doesn't pertain to material reality in any meaningful way.

So if you want to be content to limit yourself to "faith", that's your choice and while I'm not sure I could respect it, I can tolerate it.

The important thing to know is that your faith is not a claim on anyone else's thoughts, beliefs, product or behaviour. Faith can only be a personal matter for the reason that it would be monstrous (and futile) indeed to ask someone else to willingly and knowingly ignore reality as they can perceive it. There has to be a part of you that knows that your faith may well be real to you, but it isn't objective truth, it cannot apply to anyone else. You'd be asking others to lie to themselves, for no other reason than to make the same lies less obvious to yourself (I'm sorry that I have to use the word "lie" because it carries lots of connotations that I don't necessarily want to imply and doesn't carry some that I do).

And the alternative to making someone believe in your religion is to force them to behave as though they do. I don't think that applies to you, but I'm sure you'd admit there's been its fair share of that in history. We probably don't need to argue about the moral righteousness of that, I can think of at least two reasons that it isn't.

So religion is a personal thing. It (in itself, the rules of behaviour pertaining to it could be considered seperately) should be kept out of interaction with those who don't share it. That means no religion in government, no religion in other social environments. Keep it to your congregation, and everything is fine. You don't hurt anyone by believing but yourself. But try and make others believe, and you start hurting them. And likewise, if you want to support or disagree with a law, do it with rational arguments (and hopefully rational reasons), not because of faith. Your church may well feel that homosexual marriage is bad, but that doesn't justify outlawing it - no one forces you to be a gay married couple, afterall.

I suppose by that train of thought it would be okay to convert already religious people, but not to teach your beliefs to your kids. Which doesn't actually seem that bad an idea to me, though the latter would be hard to enforce and could potentially spell the end of religion altogether.

Interestingly enough, the only answer I ever got for it, given by a professor of philosophy teaching a Philosophy of Religion class at my old uni, was "For the sake of this discussion, we pretty much have to assume deities are constrained by the bounds of logic."
So...does that violate omnipotence?

the lack of a compelling reason for theism.
Atheism, the position that no gods exist, is the neutral position. similar to the position that no unicorns exist. belief in god is not somehow special, and is certainly not something assumed.

I'm not sure I could respect it, I can tolerate it.
I'm sure that if I can respect Atheism you can respect my faith. (No offense intended)

this is something that isn't governed by the thinking part of your brain, and that you can't convince anyone of by strength of arguments
Ah, but it is governed by the thinking part of my brain. How else could I have made the decision to make the leap of faith? How else could I have determined that I cannot answer these questions? The thinking part of my brain is the only part that allows me to even contemplate this. And it isn't conducive to arguments, true; its quite simply my reason. I never said that you would or should be persuaded, true?

The important thing to know is that your faith is not a claim on anyone else's thoughts, beliefs, product or behaviour. Faith can only be a personal matter for the reason that it would be monstrous (and futile) indeed to ask someone else to willingly and knowingly ignore reality as they can perceive it.
Indeed. Which is why most evangelism goes about it the completely wrong way. However, instead of ignoring reality, which cannot give answers regarding theism, it is instead asking you to make a leap of faith without yourself coming to that conclusion. If someone is going to be converted they will seek out the answers rather than wait for the answers to come to them. Faith and personal revelation are profoundly personal experiences.

You'd be asking others to lie to themselves, for no other reason than to make the same lies less obvious to yourself
True, if I was asking this. If someone asks me about the gospel or God, I'll tell them my views and beliefs, and warn them that this is what I Believe, not know.

And the alternative to making someone believe in your religion is to force them to behave as though they do. I don't think that applies to you, but I'm sure you'd admit there's been its fair share of that in history.
Very true. In fact, extremely accurate. There are many religious zealots who go forth trying to rid the world of pagans and destroy people to satisfy bloodlust or personal power in the name of religion. Forced religion loses meaning and value, in my opinion. I'm sure you know this too, but just to put it out there, religion itself isn't bad, its the people. Tell me one teaching of religion that is unilaterally evil, and I'll recant.

So religion is a personal thing. It (in itself, the rules of behaviour pertaining to it could be considered seperately) should be kept out of interaction with those who don't share it. That means no religion in government, no religion in other social environments. Keep it to your congregation, and everything is fine. You don't hurt anyone by believing but yourself. But try and make others believe, and you start hurting them. And likewise, if you want to support or disagree with a law, do it with rational arguments (and hopefully rational reasons), not because of faith. Your church may well feel that homosexual marriage is bad, but that doesn't justify outlawing it - no one forces you to be a gay married couple, afterall.
Complete and total agreement there.

I suppose by that train of thought it would be okay to convert already religious people, but not to teach your beliefs to your kids. Which doesn't actually seem that bad an idea to me, though the latter would be hard to enforce and could potentially spell the end of religion altogether.
I'd teach it and let my kids make my own decisions once they're old enough.

I'm sure that if I can respect Atheism you can respect my faith. (No offense intended)
Well, that's the nature of the way in which I dish out respect. I respect achievements which come about due to the choice of applying one's reason to one's chosen goal or profession.

So you see that your faith is not something I would consider worthy of my respect. Though really, the last thing you should concern yourself with when it comes to your belief is whether or not some dude on the other side of the globe (who doesn't seem to have the stamina today to just write a uni report without constantly interrupting it and going back to NSG) happens to respect it. ;)

Ah, but it is governed by the thinking part of my brain. How else could I have made the decision to make the leap of faith? How else could I have determined that I cannot answer these questions? The thinking part of my brain is the only part that allows me to even contemplate this.
So you're saying that the choice not to think is a conclusion you came to as a result of thought?

May I ask what reasons you had for making the choice? If you took the time to think about it and made a decision based on those thoughts, you should be able to remember.

I'm sure you know this too, but just to put it out there, religion itself isn't bad, its the people.
Well, there are some bad people, but I think that the option to be bad is also heavily influenced by the world we have built for ourselves. If it is possible to use force on others and gain influence, wealth and power as a result without being persecuted or derided for it, that makes being evil that much easier. If it is possible to do the same thing not by physical force but by reducing others to mindless (or rather those who choose not to use their mind) "believers", it's the same result.

I think not thinking is a bad thing in and for itself. It's against that which allows humans to survive. In so far as religion is "not thinking" it is bad regardless of who happens to be involved with it.

So you see that your faith is not something I would consider worthy of my respect. Though really, the last thing you should concern yourself with when it comes to your belief is whether or not some dude on the other side of the globe (who doesn't seem to have the stamina today to just write a uni report without constantly interrupting it and going back to NSG) happens to respect it.
I accept this. And I hope your uni report goes well.

So you're saying that the choice not to think is a conclusion you came to as a result of thought?
Well, yes, otherwise I would be an unconscious automaton of some form. Its more of a decision that I cannot know, and thus any conclusion I come to is irreversibly biased and incorrect. Instead, I choose to believe in God because of observation of the natural world (which, In My Opinion, is extremely intricate and fascinating, and the closest that comes to concrete evidence, but not saying it is), spiritual intuition, and some degree of tradition.

Well, there are some bad people, but I think that the option to be bad is also heavily influenced by the world we have built for ourselves. If it is possible to use force on others and gain influence, wealth and power as a result without being persecuted or derided for it, that makes being evil that much easier. If it is possible to do the same thing not by physical force but by reducing others to mindless (or rather those who choose not to use their mind) "believers", it's the same result.
Very true, but if the believer is not controlled by or endorsing an entity that creates this power, wealth, and influence... There are some who would use religion for worldly purposes, but since I'm fairly sure that the teachings I follow were authored by nobody who achieved much of these attributes, I think it hardly matters in my case.

I think not thinking is a bad thing in and for itself. It's against that which allows humans to survive. In so far as religion is "not thinking" it is bad regardless of who happens to be involved with it.
Not thinking is a terrible, terrible problem with this world. Some religion can be that, but most of the time I adjust my theology and philosophy constantly to keep up with new input I find, operating under a set number of rules.

No, but rabid anti-Semites like you are.

Let's keep away from getting personal, Red Baptism, as you've done in recent posts within this thread.

This goes out to everyone else as well. I've seen some good responses, and I'd like it if this thread continued further, without being brought down by any sort of personal attack, flame, or troll.

I know that a lot of people here are atheists.I would like to know your reasons for becoming atheist.

My reason is that I find it hard to believe any religion. I went to a Catholic school for eight years, and during that time I found several contradictions in the Christian faith. Given enough time, I learned, you can find fault in almost any religion.

I am an atheist because most of the time I don't believe in a god or gods.

The rest of the time I am usually either about to get in a car accident, or about to climax in a night of some good sex.

I'm an atheist because god came to me in a dream and told me he was a figment of my imagination.

I'm an agnostic because all personifications of g/God(s) are completely irrelevant in day to day life.

If a supernatural being would exist...

At worst I would be "judged" after death by an omnipotent omniscient creature who already knew how I will fare till the day I die from the beginning of creation.

At best I'd be reincarnated without any memory of my previous life.

I also think that no amount of praying or wishing will make a goddamn supernatural difference in our lives.

Its more of a decision that I cannot know, and thus any conclusion I come to is irreversibly biased and incorrect.
But that's a pretty big leap. If you're presented with a difficult algebra question you probably won't come to the conclusion that you cannot know, even though you may not be able to reach the answer without spending a lot of time on working it out.

So the question is: how do you come to make that leap?

There are some who would use religion for worldly purposes, but since I'm fairly sure that the teachings I follow were authored by nobody who achieved much of these attributes, I think it hardly matters in my case.
Well, not all misuses are purely material in nature. Some people might just get some sort of satisfaction from feeling like they have changed something and made some sort of impact, even if it is (looked at objectively) for the worse.

A hypothetical real-life, historical figure of Prophet X certainly wouldn't get many material rewards from being a prophet, but it still may have seemed to him like a much better option than being some unknown, say, carpenter. It's not even exploitation as such, it's just that X could never have made an impact like that through objective achievement, by providing others with material value created through skill, determination and the power of his mind. So he resorted to substituting such real value with imaginary value, the things that he couldn't create through the power of thought he pretended to have created through the power of not thinking. And if he gets enough others to share in this imagined state of the world, then it's almost as if he had actually done something, right? Right?

I doubt whether that is ultimately a sustainable or even morally right way of going at it. You can't replace material achievement with feelings or faith. One is physically real, the other really isn't.

Some religion can be that, but most of the time I adjust my theology and philosophy constantly to keep up with new input I find, operating under a set number of rules.
Well, it may well be those set rules that are the problem. If I begin by assuming/believing/accepting that 1 = 2, I can be the most brilliant mathematician or engineer in the world, the results I arrive at will still be faulty. So if your most basic premises are accepted without thought, does it really matter what you do from there on in?

Here it comes from a Theist.
I believe in God because of the pehonmena that connot be explained by science or mathematics. The deeper realsms of subatomic physics, accounts of those who claim to have been on the brink of death, and various "miracles" if you will that have occured in modern times. I found belief in God throught thought and analysis, rather than being indoctorinated as a child. My reasons are pretty much scoff fodder for you, but hey.


This is called the "God of Gaps" approach. Basically, every time human knowledge expands, deity/deities are pushed back a bit. There are two possible endings:
1.There is a non-zero "godly limit" - hence the knowledge of human race will never include everything in the Universe (out of the Universe has no meaning, of course, but we're going into metaphilosophy here).
2.There is a zero "godly limit" - hence the knowledge of human race will always expand a bit - maybe just a tiny bit, but the unknown will reach zero at infinity.

A fluctuating godly limit may also exist, but it's quite an exotic idea.

(by the way, it's phenomena, cannot, realms, through, indoctrinated)

You don’t become an atheist.

When you’re born, you’re one. At least you’re agnostic.

Someone or something has to teach you that god is real.

But anyway…

It is just fighting with my logics.

There are about 4000 religions present times, which one is right?

They all claim that the others in the other restaurant or eating bad food.

I’m not an expert in religions, but I know the Catholic pretty well. I’m baptized as one.

In my opinion Christianity was sick and still is.

Those religious hooligans killed millions of people in the past, all in the name of their glorious god.

And even currently…

The pope has lots of influence in Africa.

If he says: ‘thou shall not use a condom while f*cking your wife’, then he’s enhancing the problem of population explosions, the spreading of diseases as AIDS (and others!)…

In my opinion this is just sick.

Then the bible itself. It is just fighting its own content. In one part they say ‘do this’, in another “oh no, no, no, you can’t do this’

And it’s influencing smart people. Look at this board, lots of our Christian friends just hate homosexuals, other religious ones, atheist people, etc…

I’m not an expert in Islam. Not at all. But I know enough to be not attracted to it. It’s more or less the same sh*t as the bible.

Maybe there’s a religion around that I could accept, I don’t know, but I’m not looking either.

I feel fine by having none. I don’t need lessons in morality and ethics from books written 2000 years ago in a completely other time frame and culture.

I have some respect for devoted religious ones that go all the way, but not for the religious people who pick and drop what they like in their religious shopping cart.

If you’re a normal guy with a working brain then you can’t accept that an invisible dude created everything and has particular care for us dumb humans.

When I was a child, I did not put much thought into this. The grown-ups said it existed and I had no reason to disbelieve. When I grew up I eventually learned to question all of my beliefs, one after the other. Some remained, were strengthened even, while others were discarded for failing my "reality check".
I sure don't have a problem with people trying to "mock my belief". Actually it's not like I was believing in anything there. Atheism is rather the term to desribe my complete loss of faith.
So how did it come to this ?
Thinking about life, the universe, etc I eventually applied Occam's razor. Doing that just doesn't leave considerable reason to believe in any of the religions I am aware of, much less in an entity deserving the label "god".

So I will probably remain an atheist until I find a new reason to believe otherwise. Currently I cannot imagine that though.

Here it comes from a Theist.

I believe in God because of the pehonmena that connot be explained by science or mathematics.

Why does this lead you to believe in God? Why does it lead you to believe in the particular God you have chosen? I have been a scientist my whole life and have always known about the many gaps in human understanding, yet I have never felt any particular need to believe in any God or gods.


The deeper realsms of subatomic physics, accounts of those who claim to have been on the brink of death, and various "miracles" if you will that have occured in modern times.

How does subatomic physics direct you to your particular God beliefs? Given the number of people who have been on the brink of death and have reported no supernatural phenomena, why do you give special weight to the accounts of the minority who have experienced such phenomena? Which miracles are you referring to, and how have they directed you to your particular God beliefs?


I found belief in God throught thought and analysis, rather than being indoctorinated as a child. My reasons are pretty much scoff fodder for you, but hey.

I'm not interested in scoffing, I'm interested in getting useful information. Saying that you found belief through thought and analysis is vague and useless. Please be more specific.


You can have your own belief system.

Um...thanks?


Personally, I do not practice organized religion, because it's illogical to expect people to accept a set of beliefs freely that conform to a particular religious doctrine.
Why?

I see no reason to believe in any god or gods, nor do I feel some inexplicable urge to do so that would negate that lack of a reason.

Or to put it simply, I don't want to and don't see why I should anyway.

I hear you man. I have no problem with atheists or atheism, I just disagree.

My reasons: I don't need a reason to believe or not to believe.

Sure you do. And you're about to tell us all about your reasons for believing.


I don't have to explain and neither does anyone else.

Of course you don't. Just like you don't have to ever talk about anything. But why bother to announce to all of us how much you don't want to talk about something? If you actually didn't want to talk about it, you wouldn't. Obviously you do want to talk about it.


Religion is best left to conversation where people do not insult or criticize the belief or lack thereof in deities/ a deity, but rather simply discuss in a purely impartial manner.

Why? Why shouldn't religious belief be exposed to the same level of critical thinking that we apply to any other belief system?

The more important my beliefs are, the more eager I am to expose them to criticism. I need to test those beliefs to make sure that they are sound. I want to know that my beliefs can survive an honest, thorough examination.

But maybe that's just me.


This is the only way I have been able to reconcile my relationships with atheists, Mormons, Muslims, Jews, Catholics, and myself a Protestant - respect. (Same goes for political beliefs.)

You are gravely mistaken if you think that criticism and respect are incompatible. As a scientist, I've found that it is impossible to have true respect unless you are prepared to offer honest criticism.

It wouldn't be respectful for me to treat religious beliefs as if they are so fragile and pathetic that they can't handle direct criticism.


How I came to my current conclusions is a difficult story. I was, as all children in a fairly conservative household, brought up with the belief in God and Christianity. As I came to my teenage years, I realized that many people reject this, are members of a different religion, or even just despise all religion. I was severely confused. (Now, I could say that 'I found God again' or 'God guided me through'. I believe both of these are true; however, neither are conducive to my argument. Let me say this: I believe that my thoughts and actions are known by God, and he influences me only through worldly belief and teachings. I believe that he works through us.)

Do you believe in the God your parents/family believe in?


I came to the conclusion that Christianity is simply one path to God, and there are many, many others. Christianity, and through that, my practice of Presbyterianism, is simply my path.

Why?


I refuse to believe that simply because he who does not believe in Christ doesn't mean he is damned to hell. Accepting Christ is just one way to repent and atone for one's sins. If that means I disagree with my church, then that's that.

Why do you choose to belong to a church that says something major that you disagree with?


True, I cannot prove or disprove God's existence. That makes me Agnostic. I do not know. But if I practice organized religion, does that mean I'm not Agnostic?

As long as you believe that God is unknowable, you are agnostic. You don't have to be atheist to be agnostic.


I'm quite simply just a person who observed the wonders of the natural world and refuse to believe it a work or random effects.

Why are there only two options (God, or randomness)? Science offers a third option. Is there any particular reason you ignore it?


I find Christianity to be one of the paths you can take to God, and like all paths, can be deviated from and misinterpreted on the map (map is metaphor for 'scripture, interpretation, and theology'). I choose to Believe this. Call me ignorant, call me naive, but that will not change my beliefs.
Folks need to chill and stop being so defensive. I'm not interested in changing your beliefs. Not to be harsh, but I don't particularly care what you believe, because I don't know you. I'm curious about why people choose to believe as they do, but I'm not out to make anybody believe or disbelieve anything.

I know that a lot of people here are atheists.I would like to know your reasons for becoming atheist.

My reason is that I find it hard to believe any religion. I went to a Catholic school for eight years, and during that time I found several contradictions in the Christian faith. Given enough time, I learned, you can find fault in almost any religion.

Why would I need a reason? :confused:
Do you need a reason not to believe in Santa?

Your reason for atheism?

Most people are atheists to some degree. How many people actually seriously consider the existence of Zeus, Thor, Ra, etc.? Do you actually lose sleep contemplating you may not be doing the will of Utu ? I find belief in any god or gods to be equally silly. I'm only one more god into atheism than most theists.
On a side note: my wife believes in most of 'em. As an atheist this is about the easiest theological point of view to co-exist with :)

Why am I an atheist?

Well, I used to be a devout believer until one day, when I was walking down Damascus Avenue, I was confronted by an enormous monkey with a beard. He said his name was Darwin and asked me why I was persecuting him. Before I had a chance to respond, he screamed something incoherant about 'survival of the fittest' and 'there can only be one' and then he beat the shit out of me.

When I came to, I was blind from the beating I'd received, but I was taken to a doctor and after a few short years of medical treatment I could see again! It must have been a miracle so I dedicated my life to Evolution and Atheism.[/teh truth]

My reason? I have several.

At first, I rejected the Christian God because, upon reading his book, I found him to be evil and foul. This made me look elsewhere.

The Jews and Muslims worshipped the same god. I continued to look.

The only dogma that appealed was Daoism - which requires no supernatural elements (though neither does it deny them). I learned about Daoism, and I still do consider myself a philosophical Daoist - without the supernatural aspects.

I learned history, and saw that while faith was a beautiful and powerful thing, faith was no evidence that what was being believed was true. I looked further, and saw the many, many admirable people who believed all sorts of things, and the many, many vicious beasts who also believed those things, and I knew they could not all be right.

It was not far from that to the realisation that none of them were right.

Finally, I studied the universe and all that's in it. And I found a beautiful, incredible reality of fascination and magnificence. And there was no need nor want for God.

God is unnecessary.

You don’t become an atheist.

When you’re born, you’re one. At least you’re agnostic.

No, when you're born you're an atheist - you've never even heard of the god concept, so you don't believe in one.

Agnosticism isn't simply some neutral half-assed position between faith and atheism, it's a philosophical position that knowing whether God exists or not is impossible. It is compatible with religion and atheism both.

I would like to know your reasons for becoming atheist.


My common sense tells me that it's very unlikely that there is some all-knowing, all-powerful ghost on a cloud somewhere, waiting to punish me for masturbating.

I believe in the Church of the Cruelest Joke.

Basically, god exists, but the bible is a bunch of hooey meant to lull us into thinking he wants to save us. In reality, he doesn't care what happens to us and is actively working towards our destruction. As humans we have to fight against that in every way possible. If we don't, he wins.

I just found that too many people I bumped into who were really into their religion also turned out to be as interesting as a well preserved fart.

I only ever bring up a reason whenever somebody tries to convert me (yes, that frequently happens to me).


But, for the purposes of this forum, I will state my reason.

It's that the whole idea of ascending to a different plane, a divine thing that created everything, and a lot of other things simply defy all logic. Besides, if something created everything, what created the creator?

I just finished reading this thread which I made like three days ago, and to the people that believe they don't need a reason, thats fine. I just know that some people (including me) used to believe or was pressured to believe, and I was asking why they decided to follow a different path.

I just finished reading this thread which I made like three days ago, and to the people that believe they don't need a reason, thats fine. I just know that some people (including me) used to believe or was pressured to believe, and I was asking why they decided to follow a different path.

i thought it was a reasonable question.

i dont know where you live but in the US the polls indicate that something like 90% of people have some sort of religious faith. the question of "why arent you like the vast majority of people?" is an interesting one.