NationStates Jolt Archive

and amazingly enough, it's not about politics!

Today I went on a junk trip (junk here as in Chinese word for launch). It was to celebrate an acquaintance's birthday. She (a Canadian) herself had organised the launch, invited myself (and many other people of course) for the day trip over to another island to have lunch at the beach cafe there and then a leisurely trip back.
So it was all her idea for the day's outing (which I feel is important to the crux of the matter)
There were 17 of us on board, birthday girl (b'girl) included. Lunch we decided not to bother working out who had what and just split the bill. I worked it out, /17. At which point her b/f (a Brit) became very indignant and stated that b'girl was obviously not paying for her lunch as it's her birthday.
whoops. my bad. Of course one shouldn't expect her to pay her share for the lunch. It is her birthday after all.

Much later in the day we got back home and then we were all asked to contribute for the cost of hiring the junk - and again (this time the b/f staring straight at me when he said it), b'girl 'obviously' wasn't going to contribute.

Now this, to me, is just weird.
She organised all this, invited us all and then expected us all to pay for her good time. Personally I see nothing wrong with us all shouting her lunch but as it was her idea for the launch then I feel surely she should be the one paying for it. If it'd been one of her friend's ideas as a surprise for her, then yes obviously I'd feel obliged, and would be expecting, to help pay.
Had I known that I was expected to pay, I wouldn't have bothered buying a present for her.
Seems greedy and a tad exploitative to me.
If I held a party I would make sure that there was enough food and drink for everyone coming. Sure, I'd might say,'Bring a plate' or 'byo' but if I did (though I'd still ensure there was still some vittals there), I'd do that before the party and not just have everyone turn up on my doorstep, finding my place bereft of everything because I've decided that since it's my birthday, everyone else is paying for everything.

So my question is:
Is this normal in North America and/or Britain?
To announce and invite everyone on an excursion to celebrate one's birthday and expect all one's friends to pay for said excursion on your behalf?

I ask because everyone else on board (mostly Brits and Canadians) appeared not bothered in the slightest about paying for lunch and launch. Which makes me wonder as to whether it's a cultural thing (in NZ you just wouldn't do that).

edit: By 'normal' I don't mean would you yourself do such a thing. I mean would you, if you were invited out on something like this, not be bothered/surprised to be expected to help pay for it?

They never do things like that in suburban NY.

Also be glad that her birthday isn't april 15th (or whenever tax day is) -- she'd probably refuse to pay taxes outright for the same reason.

Is this normal in North America and/or Britain?

no normally everyone else runs your birthday or you just have to go to work

To announce and invite everyone on an excursion to celebrate one's birthday and expect all one's friends to pay for said excursion on your behalf?

no thats rude (moneys on the BF having the influence on this though)

edit: By 'normal' I don't mean would you yourself do such a thing. I mean would you, if you were invited out on something like this, not be bothered/surprised to be expected to help pay for it?

I'd be surprised but you can't really kick up a fuss on someones birthday, so really you've been fucked and the only thing to do is take the piss till she realizes that you paying was a no no

e.g.
yourself: would you like a Rolo?

girl who's boyfriend is cheap: yes please!

yourself: that will be £2.50

hmm, I would say yes, it is unusual, at least to me. If someone throws a party for their own birthday I would expect them to provide everything. Never have I gone to a party where the guests were expected to pay for so much, though this might just be what I'm used to, I'm sure there are differences between different regions even families as regards to this. All I can say is that to me it is expected that the host provides, unless stated otherwise (in which case you were given forewarning).

EDIT: sounds like the b/f is being cheap btw- since I'm sure he would be the who is supposed to be picking up her tab (and maybe even paying for the party).

I've never heard of people not paying for their birthday celebration. Yes it is your birthday but its your party. In Ontario, canada, we host and pay for our party.

Bitch your quitchen! My God man it was her birthday. Just pay up.

We generally pay for our own parties too.

I've never heard of people not paying for their birthday celebration. Yes it is your birthday but its your party. In Ontario, canada, we host and pay for our party.

Though sometimes a friend might decide they want to treat you. I've done that; I treated a friend to a round of drinks on his birthday when we were out. It's a matter of choice, but typically the host pays, even if they are the ones celebrating the birthday.

It's not unheard of for family to pay.

In general most people pay for their own birthdays; when you're younger your parents pay, while the guests bring presents. Normally payment decisions are worked out way before the event has happened. A lot of the time as a gift friends will give you things they paid for (tickets to show, cruise, gift card, etc.) but nothing like that.

I ask because everyone else on board (mostly Brits and Canadians) appeared not bothered in the slightest about paying for lunch and launch. Which makes me wonder as to whether it's a cultural thing (in NZ you just wouldn't do that).

edit: By 'normal' I don't mean would you yourself do such a thing. I mean would you, if you were invited out on something like this, not be bothered/surprised to be expected to help pay for it?

Hell no. For my 40th I invited my closest friends and family to a lovely restaurant -- and none of them paid a dime.
S/he who invites, pays -- unless everyone offers beforehand to kick in a share.

That said I'd probably pay up graciously but inwardly be rather pissed off that this wasn't brought up beforehand and that those expected to pay had no input on the matter, and might say something privately to birthday girl and boy about it being nice to know ahead of time how much should be budgeted for the event. But then, I'm a cranky witch sometimes. ;)

Birthday girl should curb champagne and caviar tastes if her boyfriend has a beer and buttie budget.

Unusual. Person who organises it organised payment. Unless it's a surprise for them the birthday person would pay/help pay.

But to some extent it depends how much it is, for drinks/a meal it's uncommon but not unheard of (especially drinks on a night out) but for anything more expensive then that it wouldn't happen.

He/She who invites pays for the occasion unless the people invited insisted on paying for it. You were had and that's about it. Never I have I seen that type of situation before.

And thats why going to parties without monies is a good thing! :D

To answer the question: Ive never even heard of something like this. Parties here are either host payed or known beforehand that everyone chips in. Sounds like the girl is a 'pwetty lil pwincess' imo. :/

I can see not paying for food (or drinks) but if you're renting something to go on an outing with a group of people you should have to pay your share unless they all offer to treat you. It seems more like the boyfriend was being a **** about it though and you should have told him that he could cover her share. Although at the same time, if there are a large number of people splitting the cost then the difference is probably minimal and if you hang out with the same people, they'll probably make it up to you at some point, I'm sure I owe some of my friends a pint or two and others owe me the same...

(and I'm canadian, btw)

Ask them where they are treating you for YOUR birthday.

The way my circle of friends usually work it is that the person having the birthday tells us what they want to do then the rest of us organise and pay for it. We all have one birthday a year, so in the end it works out - I'll have to pay towards other peoples birthdays but when mine comes around I don't have to pay anything.

The way my circle of friends usually work it is that the person having the birthday tells us what they want to do then the rest of us organise and pay for it. We all have one birthday a year, so in the end it works out - I'll have to pay towards other peoples birthdays but when mine comes around I don't have to pay anything.

Yeah, but there's a difference between that and "Pay up!" at the end.

it's definitely uncalled for. If that were to happen to me, i would pay (avoiding making a scene on someone's birthday trip), later, to then tell her and her cheap boyfriend that it was definitely wrong to make the party-goers pay for something she set up.

Yeah, but there's a difference between that and "Pay up!" at the end.

Same with drugs. Like when you're at a party and someone hands you free drugs and you're all, "Cool!" And then they come to you at the end of the party and are all, bitch gimme mah money. It's then, then that you realize that what police, your mother, and your teachers have all said about drug dealers was true, that they're insidious, evil, heartless, deceitful bastards out to make a buck at your expense.

Just like everyone else.

it's definitely uncalled for. If that were to happen to me, i would pay (avoiding making a scene on someone's birthday trip), later, to then tell her and her cheap boyfriend that it was definitely wrong to make the party-goers pay for something she set up.

Same with drugs. Like when you're at a party and someone hands you free drugs and you're all, "Cool!" And then they come to you at the end of the party and are all, bitch gimme mah money. It's then, then that you realize that what police, your mother, and your teachers have all said about drug dealers was true, that they're insidious, evil, heartless, deceitful bastards out to make a buck at your expense.

Just like everyone else.

I fail to see how this is at all like drug use. When you invite someone somewhere, unless you say clearly beforehand, "We'll all pay our own way, ok?" you don't then ask for money and insist that everyone else pays for you as well.

It's called being a cheap bastard.

I fail to see how this is at all like drug use. When you invite someone somewhere, unless you say clearly beforehand, "We'll all pay our own way, ok?" you don't then ask for money and insist that everyone else pays for you as well.

It's called being a cheap bastard.

Not drug use, the notion of supposedly-free fun. Something that is claimed (or merely implied; lie of omission) at the beginning to be free, but which someone later then charges you for.

Hey, it's a bait-and-switch fraud!

Okay, not really, but it's definitely unethical.

I think it was, from the description, the boyfriend that spearheaded that and not necessarily her. She could have chimed in, "No, I got it, it's cool." but might have been embarrassed. Don't know, not enough info on that.

Depending on the situation and who is involved I might have sucked it up or said, "You're the one who gets to touch her goodies, you cover her bill, stud."

I run in poor circles so everyone is actually expected to pay their own way, you're just invited to come along if you want. If it's something you can't afford you say so up front and then if the inviter can s/he'll offer to cover you. Usually the cost is mentioned up front so you know if you can afford it or not so the person isn't stuck when they get there not able to afford whatever it is going on. But again, since most of the people I know are poor generosity is always voluntary, not obligatory. When we can do it we delight in it, makes us feel like bigshots.

her boy freind should have paid for the boat. what a cheap bastard he is.

I would have said something along the lines of "oh, you should have told me beforehand, I only brought enough money for me". Sounds like the boyfriends a bit of a cheapskate.

If I forget to bring a present, then I offer to pay for the birthday girls lunch, or buy her a couple of drinks or something, and my friends do the same to me. But I've never heard of the host expecting the guests to pick up the bill.

Unethical, and certainly not what would be expected round here. Fair enough paying for food perhaps, but not the whole thing. It seems the boyfriend was the cheap one and was pushing for everyone to pay. Perhaps you should speak to her about it sometime.

If you note, it is the BF that objects to not paying, not the b'day girl herself.

I think it is having to have the birthday person pay for themselves is insulting in the same way a Japanese person would be insulted if someone younger offered to pay (that is the custom, right?). The birthday person themself doesn't expect it, but everyone else at the birthday expects the birthday person to go without paying.

Well, the point at which, "I rented a boat to take us to the island" became, "and your share is," is what's not cool -- because those paying really didn't have a say in the plans, or whether they had that budgeted.

Paying for a friend's meal is cool, but when the boyfriend becomes strongarm enforcer it's not.

Well, the point at which, "I rented a boat to take us to the island" became, "and your share is," is what's not cool -- because those paying really didn't have a say in the plans, or whether they had that budgeted.

Paying for a friend's meal is cool, but when the boyfriend becomes strongarm enforcer it's not.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly, paying for the meal and all, that would be fine, it's her birthday she deserves a treat.

The boat however, thats going a bit too far really, especially since it wasn't mentioned at all before hand and it was her who arranged it.

As other people have said, it seems to have been the boyfriend who was in the wrong, but that she didn't object at all is a little strange.

So my question is:
Is this normal in North America and/or Britain?
To announce and invite everyone on an excursion to celebrate one's birthday and expect all one's friends to pay for said excursion on your behalf?


No, it isn't normal. If I asked my friends to pay for me on my birthday, the pub would empty quite quickly. Usually we buy a drink for the person in the expectation that they will do the same thing for you on your birthday.

The boyfriend in your story sounds like an idiot. Why didn't he pay for his girlfriend's meal and outing?

If everybody exempts the birthday girl from payment, then eventually everybody pays it back but it looks mighty weird to me. Organise yourself a really good time and expect the guests to pay? Our great paternalistic boss used to organise a day in France at his expense for his birthday except for personal drinks.

Unless everybody is making six figures, I would expect to pre-organise with the guests, "How about we rent a junk - but of course we'll all have to pay some"

I've lived in a couple of different places, on either side of the water. I've never encountered quite that situation.

For the most part, our traditions have been that either - people organise something for you... in which case they probably pay the whole thing but that IS your 'present'... or - birthday boy-or-girl decides with everyone else, and pays a share like everyone else, unless someone else covers their share.

If the situation ever arose where one of us booked an event like you describe, they would have covered it themselves.. or discussed it to make sure everyone would be cool and willing/able to pay.

Never been in that situation. Everyone, birthday boy/girl included, is generally expected to pay for themselves. The most we ever do is cover dessert for the birthday boy/girl, if we're out at a restaurant.

No, it isn't normal. If I asked my friends to pay for me on my birthday, the pub would empty quite quickly. Usually we buy a drink for the person in the expectation that they will do the same thing for you on your birthday.


Thats generally what we do. On my 18th i went out with my brother and a bunch of his friends that i knew quite well, since my birthday is set on one of holiday weeks where everyones on holiday. Still, they were a great bunch of people and all of them bought me the strongest cocktails they could think up. I didn't last long. Still, i've returned the favour over time. :p

No, its not common. The bb/bg should supply all the knicknacks and doo-dads for the party, friends pay for their own drinks though.

That is not normal whatsoever. Out of common courtesy and sense, if one plans an event and invites others to said event, one provides the necessary services and money to make the event work at no inconvenience to guests.

I would have thought it would be the boyfriends job to pay for the whole thing.

Paying for her meal is fine (in my circle in the UK the birthday guest would probably pay there their, though). But the boat? That's not on. If they'd said beforehand 'we're gonna hire a junk, its quite expensive so I'd be obliged if everyone can help out', then that would be ok - but to spring it on you? The bf is being cheap.

Hehehe, that's hilarious.

Yeah, that's not normal.

I can see chucking in for the chicks dinner - I probably would have done that without the BF asking anyway - but the party was all her show.

Bet the boyfriend was from the south of england.

Yeah, that's not normal.

I can see chucking in for the chicks dinner - I probably would have done that without the BF asking anyway - but the party was all her show.

Bet the boyfriend was from the south of england.

Kent maybe.. not the way we did it 'down our way'.

if you invite someone somewhere around here it's assumed that you will pay unless you say something about going dutch and even if you assume your host/hostess is paying (because that's the polite thing to do) you are supposed to offer to cover your own (because that's the polite thing to do).

and amazingly enough, it's not about politics!

Today I went on a junk trip (junk here as in Chinese word for launch). It was to celebrate an acquaintance's birthday. She (a Canadian) herself had organised the launch, invited myself (and many other people of course) for the day trip over to another island to have lunch at the beach cafe there and then a leisurely trip back.
So it was all her idea for the day's outing (which I feel is important to the crux of the matter)
There were 17 of us on board, birthday girl (b'girl) included. Lunch we decided not to bother working out who had what and just split the bill. I worked it out, /17. At which point her b/f (a Brit) became very indignant and stated that b'girl was obviously not paying for her lunch as it's her birthday.
whoops. my bad. Of course one shouldn't expect her to pay her share for the lunch. It is her birthday after all.

Much later in the day we got back home and then we were all asked to contribute for the cost of hiring the junk - and again (this time the b/f staring straight at me when he said it), b'girl 'obviously' wasn't going to contribute.

Now this, to me, is just weird.
She organised all this, invited us all and then expected us all to pay for her good time. Personally I see nothing wrong with us all shouting her lunch but as it was her idea for the launch then I feel surely she should be the one paying for it. If it'd been one of her friend's ideas as a surprise for her, then yes obviously I'd feel obliged, and would be expecting, to help pay.
Had I known that I was expected to pay, I wouldn't have bothered buying a present for her.
Seems greedy and a tad exploitative to me.
If I held a party I would make sure that there was enough food and drink for everyone coming. Sure, I'd might say,'Bring a plate' or 'byo' but if I did (though I'd still ensure there was still some vittals there), I'd do that before the party and not just have everyone turn up on my doorstep, finding my place bereft of everything because I've decided that since it's my birthday, everyone else is paying for everything.

So my question is:
Is this normal in North America and/or Britain?
To announce and invite everyone on an excursion to celebrate one's birthday and expect all one's friends to pay for said excursion on your behalf?

I ask because everyone else on board (mostly Brits and Canadians) appeared not bothered in the slightest about paying for lunch and launch. Which makes me wonder as to whether it's a cultural thing (in NZ you just wouldn't do that).

edit: By 'normal' I don't mean would you yourself do such a thing. I mean would you, if you were invited out on something like this, not be bothered/surprised to be expected to help pay for it?

I think it's rather sad that she organised everything and her friend (you), one of 17, is still bitching about paying for her. Sounds like she doesnt have many good friends.

If you are so pissed off, you can ask your money back. That'd end your friendship, but she'd pay you at least.

As for the cultural side of this, me and my friends almost always share the cost, whether it's birthdays or any other thing.

edit: By 'normal' I don't mean would you yourself do such a thing. I mean would you, if you were invited out on something like this, not be bothered/surprised to be expected to help pay for it?

I'd be surprised if she didn't make the payment arrangements beforehand. Ask everyone to chip in up front, as it were.

When I have the money, I'll often cover the check for the person being celebrated, but I hardly feel obligated to do so.

I think it's rather sad that she organised everything and her friend (you), one of 17, is still bitching about paying for her. Sounds like she doesnt have many good friends.

If you are so pissed off, you can ask your money back. That'd end your friendship, but she'd pay you at least.

As for the cultural side of this, me and my friends almost always share the cost, whether it's birthdays or any other thing.

I assume you all split when you all get to agree where to go. My friends and I split sometimes, but mostly we get separate checks because we are all on different budgets.

When I want to go somewhere expensive, and I invite my friends, I pay. It's rude to expect people to pay for you, it's even rude for to expect them to pay for themselves when you are hosting, but it's really rude to demand they pay for a party you throw for yourself after the fact.

The statement "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to." directly states that it is my party and therefore my responsibility to pay. You bring gift, I provide entertainment.

Yeah, that's not normal.

I can see chucking in for the chicks dinner - I probably would have done that without the BF asking anyway - but the party was all her show.

Bet the boyfriend was from the south of england.
Actually I think he is. ohhh....stereotypes there!

Well, the point at which, "I rented a boat to take us to the island" became, "and your share is," is what's not cool -- because those paying really didn't have a say in the plans, or whether they had that budgeted.

Paying for a friend's meal is cool, but when the boyfriend becomes strongarm enforcer it's not.
that's how i feel about the matter. I don't usually take along great wads of cash (not having money on me stops me spending it!) but in this case did so (more out of luck than anything).
I feel it's a not particularly pleasant because some guests might not have the money either on them, or been able to afford the expense (a couple of years ago I certainly couldn't have afforded the day's outing), which could lead to an embarassing situation. At the very least I think it should have been made clear before hand that contributions towards the cost of the junk hire was expected. That would give ppl who are hard up the chance not to attend.

I think they were just being cheap. I can figure how much money she's making (since she's a teacher like myself).
The cost of the junk hire was ~$500US, which ~10% of her monthly income (I'm on ~$5000US /month, so I assume she is as well). I'm not quite sure what her b/f does but assuming he's on at least the same (since this is around average for ex-pat incomes here). So while it's a lot of money, in comparison to their combined income, and the fact it's a once-a-year event, it's not really and comfortably affordable for them.

I would have thought it would be the boyfriends job to pay for the whole thing.That never crossed my mind, but yeah. He should pay for everything in its entirety except maybe the meal, or at least half (which would still be douchy).

I'm not sure this is a specific cultural thing but I would say it's an expatriate thing - there's a culture whereby everyone chips in whether that's a round of drinks, a meal or whatever.

I think I'd normally expect to pay my share and I wouldn't expect the b/d person to contribute either for the meal nor for the trip.

Having said that, I wouldn't assume everyone was au fait with this and I'd be a little more tactical if I was the b/f by suggesting and getting consensus rather than outright demanding, if not making it clear on the invite which, yes, was his responsibility really, not hers.

Knowing me, if I was confronted like that over an honest mishap, I'd make the point that perhaps he should pay her share as a gift, more out of reacting to the confrontation than the righteousness of my case - especially since you've bought her a gift anyway but I'm an ass like that myself.

Of course, it may be that you slept with his g/f and this is why he's a little testy on the subject :)

Well... I suppose it depends really on what kind of people you're with. I mean, if she invited everyone out and then this one guy seems to not want her to pay, then it's that guy who should pay her share, unless everyone agrees that they want to pitch in to treat her too.

On my birthday I invited my friends all out to go to this great pub I know of. We all got smashed and had great food and one of my friends paid for me, and I paid for another friend (because I owed him money).

Conversely, my best friend's birthday is this week, and we're going out for dinner, but I'm not going to let her pay. It's my treat to her.

It's not like a rule or tradition or anything in Western culture, I don't think. If you didn't want to pay for her, you shouldn't have to, but... I suppose it's also a little rude to verbally refuse >.O

I think it's rather sad that she organised everything and her friend (you), one of 17, is still bitching about paying for her. Sounds like she doesnt have many good friends.

If you are so pissed off, you can ask your money back. That'd end your friendship, but she'd pay you at least.

As for the cultural side of this, me and my friends almost always share the cost, whether it's birthdays or any other thing.

he/she is not saying that he thinks that the money is worth more than the friendship. its just it is a bit odd that without any beforehand warning he/she has to pay for somthing he/she didnt have a say in (choice of venue /transportation ect.) at the say of the bg's b/f

Totally not on and totally not a brit thing.

She booked it, she should pay for it.

If she'd said before "i want to do this but i can't afford it" and the group of friends decided to pay for it that is one thing but to wait until the end and then expect everyone to pay for it is bad.

I think those who paid up without saying anything probably had a good old bitch about it on their way home.

In TX, people will normally come together and throw you a party OR buy presents. I would find it extremely rude if a friend of mind simply assumed that I would pay for their entire day of fun. If he/she organizes I normally would just bring a present, or if I were contributing money to the party, the most I would do is get a card or something very small.

The only perfect way I can see an all-around answer to this is to get them a handle of their favorite liquor!