NationStates Jolt Archive

What do you think of these alternative sentences? If they help deter crime and prevent a person from doing it again it might be a good idea. At least it's better than jail.

PALATKA, Fla. — Reshane Lewis wasn't happy, sweat dripping from her face as she paraded outside the courthouse here carrying a sign reading: "I stole from a local store."

The sun beat down. For two hours, Lewis carried the red and white sign back and forth, her probation officer watching. Passersby and court employees mostly ignored her.

"It is better than going to jail, but it's not fair," said Lewis, who says she was arrested in a Wal-Mart last December for being the lookout while a friend took children clothes.

Putnam County Judge Peter Miller has sentenced Lewis and more than 600 other people to carry signs at the courthouse or outside victimized stores over the past dozen years, part of his standard punishment for shoplifting.

He is one of several judges around the country who believe unusual sentences, usually some form of public penitence, work. The company that administers Putnam County's probation system says that only three of Miller's sign carriers have repeated their offense....snip

Miller is not alone in his creative sentencing, as recent examples show:

• Some teens who yelled "Pigs" at police officers in Painesville, Ohio, were forced by Municipal Court Judge Michael A. Cicconetti to stand on a street corner with a pig and a sign reading, "This is not a police officer." He also made three men arrested in a prostitution sting to wear chicken suits near the area where they were arrested and carry a sign: "There is no chicken ranch in Painesville."

• Judge Larry Standley in Harris County, Texas, ordered a man who had slapped his wife, to take yoga classes to help him lessen his anger.

• A San Francisco judge sentenced a man convicted of mail fraud to stand outside a post office with a sign that read: "I stole mail. This is my punishment."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2007-10-12-signs_N.htm?csp=34

That sounds fine, can't think of anything wrong with those ideas. If it really leads to a lower percentage of relapses than traditional punishments then it's an improvement. Teach them to not do it again without being too mean to them, that's what's important.

I read about another alternative punishment in the local newspaper a couple days ago. Teens caught fighting where forced to watch detailed photos of injuries from fights. Some of them passed out and almost all of them quit fighting.

If they work as claimed, there's not much that really speaks against these forms of unusual punishment. Except maybe an increase of manpower use for probation officers. I'm not sure if it would work in areas where felonies are more commonplace though. This seems to be more of non-serious crimes (i.e. armed robbery being serious) type of punishment.

Still, if it works better than jailing, why not?

except the yoga one I found them bad ideas and kind of medieval (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillory).

They need more silly.

except the yoga one I found them bad ideas and kind of medieval (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillory).

If you're referring to the carrying of signs thing, it's a far cry from a pillory. Those were often used to hold people while whipping and other forms of abuse were piled on. Furthermore, the purpose of a pillory was to subject the accused to abuse by the general public.

I doubt the parole officer here would allow that. If he does, he might as well chuck in his badge.

Humiliation only. Allow open physical abuse? No.

If you're referring to the carrying of signs thing, it's a far cry from a pillory. Those were often used to hold people while whipping and other forms of abuse were piled on. Furthermore, the purpose of a pillory was to subject the accused to abuse by the general public.

I doubt the parole officer here would allow that. If he does, he might as well chuck in his badge.

Humiliation only. Allow open physical abuse? No.

meh, I just don't find humilation a good idea.

Sentencing to the criminal and is better than sentencing (solely) to the crime. The idea of one-size-fits-all sentencing is appalling.

(These particular sentences may or may not be good, but the idea of alternative sentencing is a good one.)

meh, I just don't find humilation a good idea.

Why not? The entire idea behind legally enforced non permanent punishments is to prevent a repeat of the crime as well repay debts to society. Jail doesn't really work in some cases, and in juvenile delinquency cases, may actually encourage repeat crimes.

Humiliation may work where incarceration may not.

And if you don't think it's a good idea, why don't you outline your reasons?

meh, I just don't find humilation a good idea.To a lot of people, social conformity is very, very important. Two examples frequently debated on here would be parents kicking out their gay offspring, and the fact that atheists are the most distrusted minority in the US.

For people with that kind of values, public humiliation may well be far more effective both as punishment and deterrent, than imprisonment. That it isn't an effective punishment for everyone (and some, like myself, might not think it punishment at all) doesn't mean it isn't punishment, and suitable punishment, for some.

Whether it has some broader consequences, like gradually lessening just how desperately we humans cling to our bad ideas, I don't know. I doubt it though, seeing as nothing else has ever managed to make us act like we had brains.

What do you think of these alternative sentences? If they help deter crime and prevent a person from doing it again it might be a good idea. At least it's better than jail.

Miller is not alone in his creative sentencing, as recent examples show:

• Some teens who yelled "Pigs" at police officers in Painesville, Ohio, were forced by Municipal Court Judge Michael A. Cicconetti to stand on a street corner with a pig and a sign reading, "This is not a police officer." He also made three men arrested in a prostitution sting to wear chicken suits near the area where they were arrested and carry a sign: "There is no chicken ranch in Painesville."
a couple of things:
1. they're far more appropriate sentencing than, say, 30 years for stealing a jelly doughnut.
2. I think the pig one is hilarious. I'd feel no embarrassment doing that one.

They need more silly.
Judge should watch more Japanese gameshows, right LG?
http://www.glumbert.com/media/wakeup
http://www.glumbert.com/media/tickle
http://www.glumbert.com/media/rallycardentist
http://www.glumbert.com/media/obstacle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8YlFUyKs08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8qn-zoVCZc

it's illegal to insult a police officer?? i wanna know in what circumstances you people are actually allowed your much vaunted freedom of speech.

Why not? The entire idea behind legally enforced non permanent punishments is to prevent a repeat of the crime as well repay debts to society. Jail doesn't really work in some cases, and in juvenile delinquency cases, may actually encourage repeat crimes.

Humiliation may work where incarceration may not.

And if you don't think it's a good idea, why don't you outline your reasons?

therefore I think work or something would be a better sentence, it repays society. I'm all for alternative punishments, but I just think that there are better ones. The woman in the story also had to pay something like $500 in fines and legal fees etc, which imo is enough punishment for being on the lookout while your friend steals clothes.

To a lot of people, social conformity is very, very important. Two examples frequently debated on here would be parents kicking out their gay offspring, and the fact that atheists are the most distrusted minority in the US.

For people with that kind of values, public humiliation may well be far more effective both as punishment and deterrent, than imprisonment. That it isn't an effective punishment for everyone (and some, like myself, might not think it punishment at all) doesn't mean it isn't punishment, and suitable punishment, for some.

Whether it has some broader consequences, like gradually lessening just how desperately we humans cling to our bad ideas, I don't know. I doubt it though, seeing as nothing else has ever managed to make us act like we had brains.

why wouldn't you see it as a punishment? And could you also explain the last paragraph a little more?

I'm not sure how effective these could be. I'd be willing to do the pig one for no real reason at all, if I actually had access to pigs in non-bacon form.
I suppose I could go around hanging signs that say, "100% not made from police officers" by the pork area of the freezers.

therefore I think work or something would be a better sentence, it repays society.As you yourself just mentioned, it can easily be combined. That said, as far as I can tell, focusing on reformation rather than punishment or revenge, is the more efficient way to combat crime.

why wouldn't you see it as a punishment?Well, I would. But it wouldn't be humiliating, just annoying. Whether or not I'm holding a sign proclaiming crimes, does nothing to change public perceptions of me. Of course, if I actually gave a fuck, and was oblivious to the fact that 50% of everyone thinks I ought to be hanged and the other 50% don't give a toss, I might find it humiliating.And could you also explain the last paragraph a little more?I can try, but social conformity and traditions are difficult to discuss, I think, and I'm not an anthropologist.

I was trying to anticipate that [insert name] would jump in and proclaim this kind of public humiliation was a terrible idea, because it would, eventually, make it socially acceptable to call pigs pigs, or leech on leeches - or some other such nonsense.
My point was that while everyone moans about X traditional behaviour's getting eroded from time to time, some more than others, and while it is perfectly true that it happens all the time, from generation to generation, it's equally true that these behaviours don't just disintegrate into nothing. Social values change, they don't disappear.
Rabble rousers have argued the value of stealing from the rich and mocking their guardians throughout known history. It has, however, never ever worked. At most it has simply resulted in a wee bit of change in who leeches on who, how they do it and who guards them.

therefore I think work or something would be a better sentence, it repays society. I'm all for alternative punishments, but I just think that there are better ones. The woman in the story also had to pay something like $500 in fines and legal fees etc, which imo is enough punishment for being on the lookout while your friend steals clothes.

Remember, it's not just repaying society, it's also preventing repeat behavior. Forcing them to do public work may not be sufficient for them to tie criminal behavior = negative consequences.

And I'm not saying this is the be all and end all of alternative punishments. Find what works, and then stick it to them.

If they work as claimed, there's not much that really speaks against these forms of unusual punishment. Except maybe an increase of manpower use for probation officers. I'm not sure if it would work in areas where felonies are more commonplace though. This seems to be more of non-serious crimes (i.e. armed robbery being serious) type of punishment.

Still, if it works better than jailing, why not?

But it's only a few hours of work on the part of the probation officer vs. years and years of labor from corrections officers, not to mention food, medical care, and shelter for keeping these people in jail.

If these punishments work then it's a great way to free up space in jail for all the thousands of non-violent drug offenders who were arrested for hurting no one but themselves.

But it's only a few hours of work on the part of the probation officer vs. years and years of labor from corrections officers, not to mention food, medical care, and shelter for keeping these people in jail.

If these punishments work then it's a great way to free up space in jail for all the thousands of non-violent drug offenders who were arrested for hurting no one but themselves.

I really don't see how humiliating drug users would help any problems. Wouldn't it be better to help them stop using drugs?

it's illegal to insult a police officer?? i wanna know in what circumstances you people are actually allowed your much vaunted freedom of speech.

Methinks they vaunt to much betimes. Sure they say "Sir" to the cops...If you did that to a cop here the poor man would faint. Either that or do a search to see if you were holding what you'd been snorting....

Imagine. Saving jail space for the people who actually deserve jail.


What a novel concept. :rolleyes:

meh, I just don't find humilation a good idea.

So, rather a fine and the cycle continues? Because you don't get much punishment for a minor thing like shoplifting.

Really, if you're made to stand in public with a sign saying, "I am a shoplifter", it does two things -- makes you feel embarassed, and gives people a good look at you so you're less likely to want to do it again, for fear of being caught.

I should think that's better than being tossed in a cell with a drunk or a violent criminal.

I really don't see how humiliating drug users would help any problems. Wouldn't it be better to help them stop using drugs?Sure, if it's hard drugs. If it's not, it might be a genuinely good idea to make people parade around with signs in public. Might just illustrate the absurdity of criminalizing recreational drugs sufficiently for the state to stop abusing the citizens.

So, rather a fine and the cycle continues? Because you don't get much punishment for a minor thing like shoplifting.

Really, if you're made to stand in public with a sign saying, "I am a shoplifter", it does two things -- makes you feel embarassed, and gives people a good look at you so you're less likely to want to do it again, for fear of being caught.

I should think that's better than being tossed in a cell with a drunk or a violent criminal.

like I already said she already had to pay $500 (I'm not sure if that's much for a fine, but it already seems like an extreme amount to me (but of course I'm just a poor student ;))) If that doesn't scare potential criminals then humiliation probably won't stop them either.

Sure, if it's hard drugs. If it's not, it might be a genuinely good idea to make people parade around with signs in public. Might just illustrate the absurdity of criminalizing recreational drugs sufficiently for the state to stop abusing the citizens.

I agree.

Why did kids get punished for calling cops pigs?

Some teens who yelled "Pigs" at police officers in Painesville, Ohio, were forced by Municipal Court Judge Michael A. Cicconetti to stand on a street corner with a pig and a sign reading, "This is not a police officer."

LOL

I'm sorry, but that's just not going to work. It's like pointing at a fat man and shouting, "THIS MAN IS NOT FAT!" As a punishment, it's hilarious.

a couple of things:
1. they're far more appropriate sentencing than, say, 30 years for stealing a jelly doughnut.
2. I think the pig one is hilarious. I'd feel no embarrassment doing that one.


Judge should watch more Japanese gameshows, right LG?
http://www.glumbert.com/media/wakeup
http://www.glumbert.com/media/tickle
http://www.glumbert.com/media/rallycardentist
http://www.glumbert.com/media/obstacle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8YlFUyKs08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8qn-zoVCZc

Yay! :)

So, rather a fine and the cycle continues? Because you don't get much punishment for a minor thing like shoplifting.

Really, if you're made to stand in public with a sign saying, "I am a shoplifter", it does two things -- makes you feel embarassed, and gives people a good look at you so you're less likely to want to do it again, for fear of being caught.

I should think that's better than being tossed in a cell with a drunk or a violent criminal.

I am in agreement. I sure wouldn't want to be standing out there holding up that sign in my community.
I wouldn't mind seeing criminals out cleaning up our city streets and alleys. I've been saying for years "give them a snow shovel" Alittle hard work wouldn't kill them.

meh, I just don't find humilation a good idea.

What a humiliating answer. :p

For people with that kind of values, public humiliation may well be far more effective both as punishment and deterrent, than imprisonment.

So should we bring back this and put it in the town square?

http://www.woodenstocks.co.uk/stock01.JPG

Imagine. Saving jail space for the people who actually deserve jail.


What a novel concept. :rolleyes:

To say nothing of all the $$ it saves.

meh, I just don't find humilation a good idea.

Can you think of a better way to cut down on recidivism? Every time you commit a crime, you're publicly humiliated - works for me.

If it works, I guess.

I'm amazed that calling a pig a pig is illegal, though.

So should we bring back this and put it in the town square?What's with you people & stockades?!

But no, I obviously wrote nothing of the sort, nor do I in any way think corporeal punishment (which is frequent at least in some prisons, especially against weak inmates like the ones in the OP) can ever be justified.

I wonder, if I yelled at you lot, would you break down in tears and beg me to stop beating you, or can you distinguish at all?

except the yoga one I found them bad ideas and kind of medieval (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillory).

Heh. The yoga one was the only one I objected to. Yoga, for one, is basically glorified stretching - not that stretching isn't good, but its health benefits are probably vastly overstated. Second, I just don't see it working as a deterrent for slapping your wife.

Also, I didn't think insulting a cop was a crime, unless perhaps in the process of a arrest.

LOL

I'm sorry, but that's just not going to work. It's like pointing at a fat man and shouting, "THIS MAN IS NOT FAT!" As a punishment, it's hilarious.

No, then you'd be lying. The sign only has truth on it. Captain Obvious truth, but truth nevertheless.

Imagine. Saving jail space for the people who actually deserve jail.


What a novel concept.

To say nothing of all the $$ it saves.

You know what would REALLY be a money-saver? If we abolished the government ENTIRELY and finally had some fucking freedom.

The thing with sentencing like this, where you're trying to show the public as well as the criminal that he is in fact a criminal, by making him hold a big sign and so on is labelling.

it's like what happened with ASBo's in Britain. People were treating them as badges of honour, not as punishments.

This way i like though because it include humiliation which takes that side of it away. The only thing that could go wrong with it is that the humiliation and anger could cause violent offenders to have something else to be violent about.