NationStates Jolt Archive

Yes, today, Oct. 11, 2007 is National Coming Out Day! Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Coming_Out_Day) So, all you closeted gays, lesbians, transsexuals, cross-dressers, and bisexuals, come out of that closet, be loud and be proud!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Logo_ncod_lg.gif

Now to make this a valid topic, for gays, lesbians, and bisexuals who are already out of the closet, please share your experience of actually coming out of the closet, what was it like? Was family and friends supportive, weren't they? We demand to know! ;)

And so Pandora's Box opens...

And so Pandora's Box opens...

The closet, silly, not Pandora's Box.

And so Pandora's Box opens...

Woohoo! Pandora's Box! Let chaos forever reign if it means that every is afforded the same rights before the eyes of the law; that everyone is granted the equality that was fought long and hard for.

Woohoo! Pandora's Box! Let chaos forever reign if it means that every is afforded the same rights before the eyes of the law; that everyone is granted the equality that was fought long and hard for.
Lord, forgive this fool, he does not know what sin he has perpetrated.

Lord, forgive this fool, he does not know what sin he has perpetrated.

Sarcasm is a sin? Dude, you need a better religion.

Sarcasm is a sin? Dude, you need a better religion.
Poor sarcasm is always a sin.

What can I say, the box is pretty...

The word is 'fabulous'

*nods*

Lord, forgive this fool, he does not know what sin he has perpetrated.

lolz, what sin is that, equality?:p

To all of those who are coming out to your family & friends: good for you!:)

Everyone is already afforded equal protection and rights before the law. :rolleyes:

Gay people can get married all over America now? Since when?

And so Pandora's Box opens...

What can I say, the box is pretty...

Woohoo! Pandora's Box! Let chaos forever reign if it means that every is afforded the same rights before the eyes of the law; that everyone is granted the equality that was fought long and hard for.

Everyone is already afforded equal protection and rights before the law. :rolleyes:

Everyone is already afforded equal protection and rights before the law. :rolleyes:

Gay people can no longer get fired just for being gay? Gay people can now get on their partner's insurance? Make medical decisions? Get married?

Jesus, couldn't last I checked, we made a lot of progress since 30 seconds ago.

YEEHAW! GO PROGRESS!

That is a sin, but no. Contradicting the Lord's Will is Sin. Simple, algebraic truth, lost upon the abyss which is the mind of most liberals.

Which lord is that again? There are so many, I get confused.

Which lord is that again? There are so many, I get confused.

Lord Bob the Not-so-useful. His friends call him Jehovah.

lolz, what sin is that, equality?:p
That is a sin, but no. Contradicting the Lord's Will is Sin. Simple, algebraic truth, lost upon the abyss which is the mind of most liberals.

Everyone is already afforded equal protection and rights before the law. :rolleyes:

Wishful thinking, dearie, but we haven't quite got there yet. You see that? It's called a road block. We're still trying to book the crane so we can move it.

That is a sin, but no. Contradicting the Lord's Will is Sin. Simple, algebraic truth, lost upon the abyss which is the mind of most liberals.

It's only a sin if you believe it is a sin and you believe in this invisible man in the sky. Besides, if your "Lord" granted freewill, how is it a sin to contradicit his will if one is given freewill, as freewill (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=freewill) means "made or done freely or of one's own accord; voluntary".

It's only a sin if you believe it is a sin and you believe in this invisible man in the sky. Besides, if your "Lord" granted freewill, how is it a sin to contradicit his will if one is given freewill, as freewill (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=freewill) means "made or done freely or of one's own accord; voluntary".
I am a Calvinist...

Poor sarcasm is always a sin.

Ok, what isn't a sin? Being a corpse? I mean, if one is dead, they can't sin, right?

Sarcasm is a sin? Dude, you need a better religion.

Geez, I'm beginning to think that breathing by its own right is going to be the next sin. :p

Which lord is that again? There are so many, I get confused.

Don't they call him "Xenu"? ;)

I am a Calvinist...

How nice. But that doesn't answer the question about freewill does it?

Ok, what isn't a sin? Being a corpse? I mean, if one is dead, they can't sin!
If used in sexual intercourse, they have sinned.

Unyielding and absolute obedience to the Lord is not a sin.

Gay people can no longer get fired just for being gay? Gay people can now get on their partner's insurance? Make medical decisions? Get married?

Jesus, couldn't last I checked, we made a lot of progress since 30 seconds ago.

YEEHAW! GO PROGRESS!

Putting someone on your insurance is not a right it is something that is granted by the employer and or insurance company.
Making medical decisions is not a right but something that is granted to people who are legally related or married.
Marriage is not a right but a privilege granted by the state. (NOTE: In many states first cousins can not get married nor can brothers and sisters get married.)

If used in sexual intercourse, they have sinned.

But the corpse hadn't sinned as the corpse is dead and dead people lack sentient abilities.

Unyielding and absolute obedience to the Lord is not a sin.

Translation: blindly follow, never question even if the damn system is broken.

Putting someone on your insurance is not a right it is something that is granted by the employer and or insurance company.
Making medical decisions is not a right but something that is granted to people who are legally related or married.
Marriage is not a right but a privilege granted by the state. (NOTE: In many states first cousins can not get married nor can brothers and sisters get married.)

So... people related cannot get married. That's fine and dandy but that does that have to do with the right of homosexuals to get married? Squat unless of course they are related like that.

One's rights cannot be determined by what's in the pants nor what their sexual slant is.

Putting someone on your insurance is not a right it is something that is granted by the employer and or insurance company.
Making medical decisions is not a right but something that is granted to people who are legally related or married.
Marriage is not a right but a privilege granted by the state. (NOTE: In many states first cousins can not get married nor can brothers and sisters get married.)

Actually marriage is a religious institution, but the point at which the state gets involved and says some marriages are valid and some are not is when it becomes an equal rights issue. Those who cannot get married under the magnanimous rules of the state lose all the benefits associated with marriage. Tax benefits, the ability to make medical decisions, the ability to be listed on their partner's insurance, joint custody of children, adoption, inheritance.

Unyielding and absolute obedience to the Lord is not a sin.
But yet he gave you free will. Good to see you use your free will to blindly obey a book a millenia or so out of date.

That is a sin, but no. Contradicting the Lord's Will is Sin. Simple, algebraic truth, lost upon the abyss which is the mind of most liberals.

See, but here's the gotcha.

The idea that man & man couldn't get together wasn't made by 'God'. It was made by a bunch of homophobic guys.

And equality is a truth that neocons & fundies can't seem to wrap their heads around.

If used in sexual intercourse, they have sinned.

Unyielding and absolute obedience to the Lord is not a sin.

You make God sound like a fascist...

That is a sin, but no. Contradicting the Lord's Will is Sin. Simple, algebraic truth, lost upon the abyss which is the mind of most liberals.

Question, what happens when "the laurd" contradicts (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html) himself?

Marriage is not a right but a privilege granted by the state.

Thats true, and that right should be extended to homosexual couples.

Can you think of one non-religious reason to why it shouldn't be?

*hopes my friend finally comes out to his mom*

*knows he won't*

*is sad*

:(

Is his mom homophobic or is he just nervous?

Question, what happens when "the laurd" contradicts (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html) himself?

You know, I've been looking for that list of contradictions for months now. Thanks :)

*hopes my friend finally comes out to his mom*

*knows he won't*

*is sad*

*hopes my friend finally comes out to his mom*

*knows he won't*

*is sad*

There should be a national outing day - whatever nation it is we're speaking of.

How nice. But that doesn't answer the question about freewill does it?

Have you read Calvinist theology?


Is his mom homophobic or is he just nervous?

I don't think she is. In fact, I'm fairly certain she already knows or highly suspects that he's gay. But his step-dad is kind of a neo-con type and he's worried that his view on it will sway her. He was gonna do it a couple of months ago, but got really scared and couldn't do it.


Making medical decisions is not a right but something that is granted to people who are legally related or married.

And since homosexual couples cannot get married, guess who isn't treated equally under the law...

Marriage is not a right but a privilege granted by the state. (NOTE: In many states first cousins can not get married nor can brothers and sisters get married.)

Actually, the court has conclusively held that marriage is a right - one that can only be infringed upon by the state when it can demonstrate a clear need to do so.

Meanwhile, even "privileges" can't be applied unequally by the law. We have to go get a license to be allowed to drive cars. That is a "privilege." And it would be unconstitutional if the government decided that you have to be straight to get a driver's license.

There should be a national outing day - whatever nation it is we're speaking of.

I kinda agree, and I believe this concept is pretty much exclusive to the US, though it may be spilling over.

Also, WB Fass.

I kinda agree, and I believe this concept is pretty much exclusive to the US, though it may be spilling over.

Coming out? Or having a day for it? *thinks about the fact that he comes out on an almost daily basis anyway, and snickers at the idea that it would have to be done just once - if only*

Also, WB Fass.

Much obliged.

Coming out? Or having a day for it? *thinks about the fact that he comes out on an almost daily basis anyway, and snickers at the idea that it would have to be done just once - if only*

Having a day for it. And it is a tad silly.

Much obliged.

Just don't get DEATed again.

Meh, if some people want to stay in the closet, then that's their choice.

In most cases, I would agree. The only time I condone deliberate outings is when the outed person is a homophobe - when they spend the seedy parts of their days making life hard for other gay people, they lose the privilege of the anonymity they can expect from people in the know.

Although I would like to see the chaos of homosexuals and lesbian being outed by their friends and family. Good quality TV there.

There was a clip about that on youtube, perhaps I could find it.

There should be a national outing day - whatever nation it is we're speaking of.

Meh, if some people want to stay in the closet, then that's their choice. Although I would like to see the chaos of homosexuals and lesbian being outed by their friends and family. Good quality TV there.

I wonder if anyone has ever actually come out of the closet on national coming out day?

I'd already come out to my best friend (a guy I had a horrific crush on...he apparently knew already and didn't particularly care) and a few close friends at school...I was shocked how little it mattered to them, and kept expecting someone to beat me up or at least be extremely mean...I live in the bible belt so gay rights is definitely not the first thing on people's minds...we're still working on black rights and women's rights. *sigh*

my dad was watching TV and sat through several ads for shows that were the most depraved and violent things you could imagine, and then an ad for "boy meets boy" came on. (I don't know what kind of demographic they were targeting, switching from war movies to boy meets boy) I've never seen that show, it's probably stupid, but purely because it was gay-themed he got disgusted, said "how low can you get?" and changed the channel. "religious bigotry is pretty low", said I, and I left the room. my mom followed me a few minutes later and confronted me about it, asking if my recent comments (apparently I'd made several) were of a personal or political nature. "both", I said. I was reasonably sure when my dad found out he'd kick me out of the house. she wept. a lot. for a week. then she told my dad. they both wept. for another week or two. didn't kick me out, though. my mother went on anti-depressants. my dad told me to stop misbehaving because he was afraid she was going to kill herself (not directly related to the gayness, I was just being a typical teenage douchebag), and they offered to take me to ex-gay therapy. they work for Family Life (http://www.fltoday.org), and so they even offered to introduce me to a now happily married "ex-gay" guy Family Life refers people "having difficulty dealing with homosexual temptations" to. I offered to hook them up with a therapist to deal with their prejudices (we had an offer from a psychologist, parent of one of my friends, who said they needed it more than I did) and thereafter they didn't ask again. that was maybe 4 years ago, and we've largely avoided talking about it ever since. my dad did once find a box of condoms (which had been given to me as a gag gift and never opened...I left them in an unmarked tin, in a bag, in a box, in my closet when I went to school - silly me thinking that was out of the way enough) and threatened to withdraw all financial support from me going to college if I was going to be living "the gay lifestyle", because, he claimed, it was not conducive to my own success. I told him to mind his own damn business and that he had better hope I'd use a condom when I had sex, not that I had had any in a long time. that was maybe 6 months ago. he's since expressed an interest in trying to understand my "er...um...uh...sexual...that is, er, preference" and I'm hopeful that within 5-10 years I might be able to introduce them to my (hypothetical) boyfriend and maybe even bring him to family reunions and stuff...(once the oldest generation has died off...its not a topic I'm going to broach with grandparents). I'm not sure how we're going to overcome the biblical literalism they believe in, but I really would like to eventually have an accepting family. they've been clear they still love me...though I'd argue that they more love an ideal of me as a straight guy...eh. we'll see.

edit: apparently I'm the only person who actually responded to the OP. oh well.

You know, I've been looking for that list of contradictions for months now. Thanks :)

It also has the Koran and Book of Mormon.

Having a day for it. And it is a tad silly.

Meh. It's just indicative of a national, socially retarded culture.

Just don't get DEATed again.

Now, you know that's a promise I wouldn't be able to keep.

I am a Calvinist...

I am a Hobbsist.


:D

There should be a national outing day - whatever nation it is we're speaking of.

I would never out someone else - at least not on purpose. What I worry about is accidentally outing him. My mother didn't know that his mother didn't know and could very well have done it, if the topic came up.

And I'm worried that I'll have a conversation with her like:
Me: "There was this time that I was hanging out with Bob and Johnny (not their real names) and bla bla bla."

Her: "Who's Johnny?"

Me: "Um...er...one of our friends."

Her: "Why haven't I heard Bob talk about him?"

Me: "Um...er...."


Last time I saw her, I already did the, "Yeah, last time you guys came over..........you know, when we had that party and you and [insert other friend here] brought that."

That is a sin, but no. Contradicting the Lord's Will is Sin. Simple, algebraic truth, lost upon the abyss which is the mind of most liberals.

How DARE you claim to know God's will? Are you that utterly vain? Here I thought God was a god God understanding, of GOOD, of not harming others, of tolerance. Yet you claim He's one of hatred, of fire, of evil! Worse, you LIKE it.

There should be a national outing day - whatever nation it is we're speaking of.

Welcome back, my friend. :) I knew you wouldn't be gone for long. Don't do anything to get deleted again or we'll miss you horribly.

Have you read Calvinist theology?

Whatever I found on Wiki... And it kind of depressed me so I stopped reading. ;)

But yeah, a whole lot of stuff about sovereign grace and sins, and ev en if you don't sin you're still a sinner...

I had read it a long time ago when a debate thread about Calvinism came up.

Why do gays have to make such a big deal about "coming out"?

Why can't they just keep their sordid un-natural sex lives private.

Deviants

How DARE you claim to know God's will? Are you that utterly vain? Here I thought God was a god God understanding, of GOOD, of not harming others, of tolerance. Yet you claim He's one of hatred, of fire, of evil! Worse, you LIKE it.

S'il vous plaît, ne pas faire manger aux trolls. Vilain, Heikoku!

Whatever I found on Wiki... And it kind of depressed me so I stopped reading. ;)

But yeah, a whole lot of stuff about sovereign grace and sins, and ev en if you don't sin you're still a sinner...

I had read it a long time ago when a debate thread about Calvinism came up.

More to the point here, they don't believe in free will. Which I find a little silly.

If you don't have free will, how are you responsible for your actions? If you're not responsible for your actions, how can a sinful act you commit be a sin? It means that any sin you commit is the fault of the person who decided what actions you would take (since you don't have free will). Since we can only assume that the person responsible for these actions is god him or herself, than god is a sinner, and not only that, god is THE biggest sinner in the WORLD.

I would never out someone else

Some people deserve it.

Bien, bien.

Vous savez que j'ai raison. Toujours. :P

S'il vous plaît, ne pas faire manger aux trolls. Vilain, Heikoku!

Bien, bien.

*blink blink*

It means 'feed' too?

*read as "don't eat trolls"*

Manger = eat. "Faire manger à" = feed.

S'il vous plaît, ne pas faire manger aux trolls. Vilain, Heikoku!

*blink blink*

It means 'feed' too?

*read as "don't eat trolls"*

Some people deserve it.

Maybe. But I've never personally known anyone who did, and I probably wouldn't be the one to do it anyways.

It seems kitsch to me that anyone would come out today if they were going to do it at all.

Vous savez que j'ai raison. Toujours. :P

Oui, oui...

(Furansugo o hanasanai no ni, omae wa kaita mono o wakarimashita...)

Again, marriage is not a right but a privilege granted by the state. Just like a driver's license is a privilege granted by the state not a right. A state can and does place restrictions on those privileges.

But what arguement does the state make that homosexual marriage should be restricted?

Except, off course, the blatantly religious reason: God says so.

There is really no reason that the state should restrict gays & lesbians from getting married.

So... people related cannot get married. That's fine and dandy but that does that have to do with the right of homosexuals to get married? Squat unless of course they are related like that.

One's rights cannot be determined by what's in the pants nor what their sexual slant is.

Again, marriage is not a right but a privilege granted by the state. Just like a driver's license is a privilege granted by the state not a right. A state can and does place restrictions on those privileges.

Again, marriage is not a right but a privilege granted by the state. Just like a driver's license is a privilege granted by the state not a right. A state can and does place restrictions on those privileges.

Ask yourself this:

Should it be able to place said restrictions against blacks?

If no, then it shouldn't be able to place them against gays.

There isn't a "yes" option.

To my dad:
(sitting in a coffee shop)
"I'm bi."
"Uh huh."
*carries on conversation... wonders if he actually heard me, turns out he did*

To my best friend:
(over the phone)
"Oh, and I'm bi."
"So who do you like?"

At school:
"They found out."
"What?"
"They found out."
"Crap."

And in my country, as of last year, I could marry a girl if I wanted.
:)

If the majority of the people in the state want to extend that privilege to homosexuals then it should be and has been done. If a majority of the people in the state want to extend them that privilege then it should not be extended to them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

Manger = eat. "Faire manger à" = feed.

Ah. *learns*

*will show off in French class*

Again, marriage is not a right but a privilege granted by the state. Just like a driver's license is a privilege granted by the state not a right. A state can and does place restrictions on those privileges.

Depends on your view of what marraige is. Most would define marraisge as the joining of two people by either a religious institution and / or the state. By that definition the marraige has to abide by the rules set down by said religion / state and your statement stands.

My own definition is that marraige is a statement of mutual love between two human beings. By that definition, no religious or state institution has the right to specify gender in that statement of love.

If the majority of the people in the state want to extend that privilege to homosexuals then it should be and has been done. If a majority of the people in the state want to extend them that privilege then it should not be extended to them.

Okay, I just want to make sure I understand your position. If, tomorrow, a majority of people voted that black people should no longer be allowed to get married, you'd be okay with that?

Or how about driving? If, tomorrow, a majority of people voted that men should no longer be allowed to drive, you'd be okay with that?

Thats true, and that right should be extended to homosexual couples.

Can you think of one non-religious reason to why it shouldn't be?

If the majority of the people in the state want to extend that privilege to homosexuals then it should be and has been done. If a majority of the people in the state want to extend them that privilege then it should not be extended to them.

Again, marriage is not a right but a privilege granted by the state.

Article 16, §1 of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

"Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution."

So, who you trying to bullshit with things you obviously know nothing about? Marriage is a stated, fundamental human right; your ignorant blather to the contrary notwithstanding.

I am a Calvinist...

Can I ask why you would care if pandora's box was opened? Is it because you have the lord's grace, are destined for salvation, so help people by nature. Maybe you are destined to save people, therefore destined for heaven, rather than already destined for heaven. That would mean the people you save are destined for heaven too.

It's hard to understand why a Calvanist would care what others do. Or themselves even, can't you just go around murdering, raping, pillaging etc without a care in the world:confused:

EDIT: I guess you could say "can't you just go around helping, loving, serving people without a care in the world" Still a strange, but interesting, belief.

Black does not = homosexual. Your question is not valid.

What makes them legally different? They both seem like arbitrary groupings of human beings to me.

Ask yourself this:

Should it be able to place said restrictions against blacks?

If no, then it shouldn't be able to place them against gays.

There isn't a "yes" option.

Black does not = homosexual. Your question is not valid.

Article 16, §1 of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

"Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution."

So, who you trying to bullshit with things you obviously know nothing about? Marriage is a stated, fundamental human right; your ignorant blather to the contrary notwithstanding.

Not a right under the Constitution or laws of the United States of America and I am referring to the US.

Not a right under the Constitution or laws of the United States of America and I am referring to the US.

"Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness." Ring any bells?

Not a right under the Constitution or laws of the United States of America and I am referring to the US.

Your little constitution is irrelevant to Human Rights - Human Rights supersede your constitution as an international minimum that every human is to be accorded.

But of course, as you have no clue what you are talking about, it just so happens that I have to educate you that marriage is a right under the USA constitution. That's why your Supreme Court ruled that it was a "basic civil right" and a "fundamental freedom" in Loving vs. Virginia:

"Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State."

Care to blather on your ignorant falsities some more?

Not a right under the Constitution or laws of the United States of America and I am referring to the US.

Maybe it should be

Again, marriage is not a right but a privilege granted by the state. Just like a driver's license is a privilege granted by the state not a right. A state can and does place restrictions on those privileges.

First of all, the Supreme Court has held that marriage is a right, so you are incorrect in that part of your legal commentary.

Second of all, restrictions that bar someone from getting something like a driver's license (and, indeed, something more important like a marriage license) must be placed because of a compelling state interest.

The state can deny a driver's license to someone who is blind, because it would be dangerous to everyone else if they were driving (ie. compelling state interest). It cannot, however, deny a driver's license to someone on the basis of sex, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. Why not? Because those things have nothing to do with a person's ability to drive safely.

Likewise, there is nothing about a heterosexual couple that makes them better suited for the protections or responsibilities associated with legal marriage. The legal issues brought up by a life-long committed relationship are the same whether it is a man and a woman, two men, or two women.

If the majority of the people in the state want to extend that privilege to homosexuals then it should be and has been done. If a majority of the people in the state want to extend them that privilege then it should not be extended to them.

Thanks to the 14th Amendment (in the US anyways), it simply doesn't work that way. If the government extends a right or privilege to anyone, it must extend that right or privilege to everyone equally. In order to restrict who gets that right or privilege, the government must demonstrate a need to do so that passes the level of legal scrutiny applied to that type of discrimination.

It doesn't matter what the majority of people in a state think about equality under the law, because the Constitution was specifically designed to ensure that the majority couldn't trample the minority that way.

Black does not = homosexual. Your question is not valid.

Irrelevant. You have stated that, if the majority wants to deny a minority equal protection under the law, that's perfectly alright with you. As such, it doesn't matter who that minority is. If my state decided tomorrow that we think people with red hair should be denied the right to marry, you'd have to agree with that. Same thing if we decided it for Jehovah's Witnesses. Or for black people. Or for any other minority group we might decide to pick on.

After all, it is only the opinion of the majority that matters, right?

Maybe it should be

It already is. If TCT were around, he could quickly and easily point you to the exact USSC case.

It already is. If TCT were around, he could quickly and easily point you to the exact USSC case.

It already is. If TCT were around, he could quickly and easily point you to the exact USSC case.

*ahem* (http://forums3.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13126182&postcount=71)

TCT ain't the only one who can google or recall anonymous "name vs. state"-thingies from the last time someone this ignorant of the law he claims to invoke had to be educated. So there.

Again, marriage is not a right but a privilege granted by the state. Just like a driver's license is a privilege granted by the state not a right. A state can and does place restrictions on those privileges.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

If we're all created equal then we all have equal access to the same privileges.

Discrimination based on skill (as it pertains to the issuing of a driver's license) is not the same as one that discriminates because of a person's gender as well as sexual orientation.

I "came out of the closet" as bisexual when I was 14. By then, I couldn't pretend any more that I didn't have crushes on both boys and girls. I'm 23, so coming out was a big issue then. If it weren't for the Day of Silence for gay rights, or National Coming Out Day, I wouldn't have realized that "coming out" was an option. It all seemed so simple - tell people you're queer, and then they'll understand you; and if anyone is offended by that, that's their problem.

It was pretty easy, actually. I lost a few friends, I've endured some ignorant comments... but nothing a hip, liberated bisexual can't handle. I brought my first girlfriend home to dinner, and said to my mother, "This is my girlfriend." She took it amazingly well, and I think she was glad to meet whoever I was dating. I enlisted my sister to tell my dad; reportedly, he said, "At least girls can't get her pregnant." (A cynical man, my father.)

In her first marriage, my mom fostered two kids. My foster sister (now in her 40s) comes to visit sometimes. She has been openly a lesbian since she was a teenager. I sometimes try to talk to her about gay issues, but she comes from such a different time. I once said that I'd be glad if gays and lesbians wore some kind of identification, to prevent misunderstandings in flirtations. My foster sister was horrified, and told me a few stories to support her view that being out to everybody can be very, very dangerous. People have died for looking too gay at the wrong time.

As far as I can tell, there is no Christian basis for intolerance: the proscriptions against homosexuality are in Leviticus, along with the other health-code stuff like not eating lobsters or pork. So the fundamentalists don't really bother me - if you eat bacon, you really don't have a leg to stand on when saying that God hates gays. What makes me really sad are the people who think that gays are fine as long as they are invisible and silent. What's wrong with explaining homosexuality to a child - with telling them that men and men, or women and women, can fall in love? Would the world seriously collapse at the words "I now pronounce you wife and wife"?

In an ideal world, I think everyone should be honest about something as important as orientation. We have laws in place (both legal and social) to protect the Jew who "comes out" in front of an anti-Semite. Until there is the same kind of social stigma attached to queer-bashing, coming out is a serious decision. I can only ask other queers to take the same risk I have, in the hope that visibility will bring some compassion.

- "Sashira"

*ahem* (http://forums3.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13126182&postcount=71)

TCT ain't the only one who can google or recall anonymous "name vs. state"-thingies from the last time someone this ignorant of the law he claims to invoke had to be educated. So there.

Thanks, Fass! I'd kiss you, but you wouldn't enjoy it any.

I skipped over that post somehow.

And so Pandora's Box opens...

Ironically, yes. When Pandora's Box was opened for the second time it released Hope into the world: it didn't do away with pain and suffering, but it did make these things more bearable and gave man Hope for a better future.

So yes, this is exactly like Pandora's Box: it won't kill homophobia (more's the pity) but it will remind the oppressed that they're not alone and that things are getting better.

Coming out? Or having a day for it? *thinks about the fact that he comes out on an almost daily basis anyway, and snickers at the idea that it would have to be done just once - if only*


For some people, no closet can contain them.

Would be better overall if we didn't need closets to begin with...not the world we live in, unfortunately...

Putting someone on your insurance is not a right it is something that is granted by the employer and or insurance company.
Making medical decisions is not a right but something that is granted to people who are legally related or married.
Marriage is not a right but a privilege granted by the state. (NOTE: In many states first cousins can not get married nor can brothers and sisters get married.)

I notice that you skipped over whether gays can be fired for being gay.

But, regardless, you are (1) confusing what "is" with what "ought to be" and (2) simply wrong. As has already been pointed out to you by Fass and others, marriage for example is a fundamental right protected by the Constitution. See, e.g., Loving v. Virginia (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=388&invol=1), 388 U.S. 1 (1967).

(nice work Fass)

Again, marriage is not a right but a privilege granted by the state. Just like a driver's license is a privilege granted by the state not a right. A state can and does place restrictions on those privileges.

Again you are wrong in that marriage is a right, not a privilege.

As Dem and others have explained, you are further wrong in that even "privileges" cannot be denied on invidious grounds such as gender or race.

If the majority of the people in the state want to extend that privilege to homosexuals then it should be and has been done. If a majority of the people in the state want to extend them that privilege then it should not be extended to them.

You do not appear to understand the concepts of rights or equal protection under the law.

These are not matters for popular vote. West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (http://laws.findlaw.com/us/319/624.html ), 319 US 624, 638 (1943):

The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts. One's right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections.

(nice work Fass)

"Man tackar, man tackar!" as we say. Telling how Oklatex just stopped posting to this thread, no?

Black does not = homosexual. Your question is not valid.

Yes, it does. Sexual orientation tells nothing more about a person than skin color, which, itself, says nothing about a person.

I'm sitting on campus right now. These guys are doing more to set back the cause of tolerance than Fred Phelps ever could.

I'm sitting on campus right now. These guys are doing more to set back the cause of tolerance than Fred Phelps ever could.

These demonstrations are "unwise and untimely." "[A]ctions that incite hatred and violence" do not contribute to resolution of problems. Everybody should "observe the principles of law and order and common sense."*

*See if you can figure out what I am quoting from and why it is relevant.

I feel oppressed. Why aren't heterosexuals included in this merriment? :p

I'm sitting on campus right now. These guys are doing more to set back the cause of tolerance than Fred Phelps ever could.

What are they doing exactly?

Yes. These demonstrations are "unwise and untimely." "[A]ctions that incite hatred and violence" do not contribute to resolution of problems. Everybody should "observe the principles of law and order and common sense."*

*See if you can figure out what I am quoting from and why it is relevant.

Ooo! I know! I know! Can I answer it, teacher? Can I? Please? *Waves hand from his desk, apparently reduced in age to an 8-year old*

:D

Edit: A Call For Unity!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Call_For_Unity ?

I love the internet.

Aww, I wanted to answer that! :(

:D

Yes. These demonstrations are "unwise and untimely." "[A]ctions that incite hatred and violence" do not contribute to resolution of problems. Everybody should "observe the principles of law and order and common sense."*

*See if you can figure out what I am quoting from and why it is relevant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Call_For_Unity ?

I love the internet.

meh wake me up when it's Talk Like A Pirate Day

(If you edit it now, it'll look like you answered before me)

YAAAAAAAAY, I'm in a classroom with a time warp! :D

:DPlease dont take me wrong here, but ladies and gentlemen of all sexual orientation i have a question. Why is there a Coming Out Day for homo/bi-sexual people? if we are created equally, then why is one orientation getting more than the other? it goes both ways though. as for the 'lord bob' comment on the first page, i think that the comprimise to this is for me, a christian, not to sit here and judge everyone(which i won't do intentionally, and i do have many 'gay' friends, so please dont tell me im closed minded and ignorant), and you can lay off my religion.:D


o-and hope could be seen as evil..ever had your hopes up and all it did was crush you all the more?(random, but it was a good question from my latin teacher(im known as pandora in there))

Aww, I wanted to answer that! :(

:D

(If you edit it now, it'll look like you answered before me)

I'm a female-to-male transperson. I'm also gay (as in into men), which confuses the heck out of people. I'm out to my father, but not my sister or mother, because I don't think they'd handle the news well. I'm out to my roommate and the LGBT club here at school. I'm sort of afraid to come out on campus fully, because I'm worried it would affect my grades and my relationships with my professors (which, in turn, affects recommendations for jobs, internships, and med school).

Honestly, coming out to my roommate was almost a non-event. I told her I'd been going to therapy over the summer (she has weekly therapy sessions, which is why it had come up) and then explained that it was with a gender therapist. She kinda went "oh, okay, that's fine" and we moved on.

The LGBT club was a bit more curious, and asked a bunch of questions, but I feel perfectly safe and accepted there.

I came out.

They didn't care.

Joy spread throughout the lands of Maraque.

The end. :)

I came out.

They didn't care.

Joy spread throughout the lands of Maraque.

The end. :)

They came out. They got in the damn way. They tried to convert everyone else. I fought back. :)

In all seriousness, I came out to my mother first, in the car, on the way to pick up tickets for a concert. She didn't care. At all.

I then came out to my sister, who didn't believe me until I started to cry. Then she felt like a bitch and was sad for like a month because she made me cry.

Then my brother, who's response was just a simple, "yeah, so what?" and that was that.

I'm out to all my friends, never had to come out to them because they already knew from the start.

They came out. They got in the damn way. They tried to convert everyone else. I fought back. :)

We crushed you. :)

I'm a female-to-male transperson. I'm also gay (as in into men), which confuses the heck out of people. I'm out to my father, but not my sister or mother, because I don't think they'd handle the news well. I'm out to my roommate and the LGBT club here at school. I'm sort of afraid to come out on campus fully, because I'm worried it would affect my grades and my relationships with my professors (which, in turn, affects recommendations for jobs, internships, and med school).

Honestly, coming out to my roommate was almost a non-event. I told her I'd been going to therapy over the summer (she has weekly therapy sessions, which is why it had come up) and then explained that it was with a gender therapist. She kinda went "oh, okay, that's fine" and we moved on.

The LGBT club was a bit more curious, and asked a bunch of questions, but I feel perfectly safe and accepted there.

Thanks for sharing. Hope everything goes well.

Nah, nice try though. Now I'm the president of a pro-traditional family values organization and our group is stronger than ever.

A rock may be as strong as ever, but the flowing river renders it a mere pebble. Your demise is but a matter of time - we will however keep going and keep winning as we've always done, as we will always do. Anachronisms such as yourself will just be left by the side.

We crushed you. :)

Nah, nice try though. Now I'm the president of a pro-traditional family values organization and our group is stronger than ever.

A rock may be as strong as ever, but the flowing river renders it a mere pebble. Your demise is but a matter of time - we will however keep going and keep winning as we've always done, as we will always do. Anachronisms such as yourself will just be left by the side.

That has to be the most flowery rhetoric I've heard since F.A.G. disappeared. Thanks Fass. I think.

The homos should have a "National go back into the closet day", where they shut up and stop harassing society.

I would like to come out of the closet as someone who was a vegetarian for 5 years and is now eating fish.

Less shocking is that I am a bisexual man slut.

That is a sin, but no. Contradicting the Lord's Will is Sin. Simple, algebraic truth, lost upon the abyss which is the mind of most liberals.

Jesus suppered with the prostitutes, tax-collectors, and various other sinners... The typical "Christian" would rather relegate them to second class (or worse) citizens.

The gulf between "Christian" and Christian has grown wider and wider.

The homos should have a "National go back into the closet day", where they shut up and stop harassing society.

Congratulations, I nominate you to the the poster child for religious intolerance. Perhaps the closet is where someone spouting intolerant rubbish, such as you, belongs.

how many people replied to this thread actually fit in the category of wanted?

because all i see are people talking about sin, god/gods/goddesses have nothing to do with this. its all about sexual prefrince and such.

so i say snipe the hatters:sniper::sniper:

Repeating a lie loud and often enough doesn't spontaneously turn it into the truth.

But it does turn it into the truth, no?

:p

That is a sin, but no. Contradicting the Lord's Will is Sin. Simple, algebraic truth, lost upon the abyss which is the mind of most liberals.

Repeating a lie loud and often enough doesn't spontaneously turn it into the truth.

The homos should have a "National go back into the closet day", where they shut up and stop harassing society.

You mean so they can be in the closet with you?

I am a Calvinist...

Well, you're kinda screwed if you find out that you're not part of the 'elect' group which god apparently chose many thousands of years ago.

All that praying, condemning and hatred against gays only to find that you'll share a possie on the log next to hell's camp fire.

This is a ridiculous "holiday". . .

If used in sexual intercourse, they have sinned.

Unyielding and absolute obedience to the Lord is not a sin.

May I suggest that you read the tanakh, because obviously you know nothing of the debates that occured between God and his people; or the many Rabbi's who would disagree over your 'blind obedience to god'.

I tried coming out to my mom and dad about being asexual but my mom doesn't accept it at all because she wants grandchildren and my dad thinks I'll "change my mind," as if he thinks it's some sort of choice. My mom makes such a big deal about how tolerant she would be if I came out to her as a lesbian, and yet she can't be tolerant of how I actually I am when I try to tell her. :(

My brothers accepted it when I told them, and I told some of my friends and classmates, but only if I could tell that they seemed like open-minded people. They had a lot of questions but seemed to accept it. My psychology teacher accepted the existence of my orientation but things I'm too young to "write myself off" or something. I hate people treating my orientation like it's some sort of disease or resignation or something. I can't stand that.

I am a Calvinist...

If you were actually a Calvinist, you would have agreed with that presented definition of "freewill"... As it is the same particular definition used within Calvinist soterology dealing with the will of man as a free-agent...

My guess, however, is that you are not a calvinist proper, but rather a hyper-calvinist... And probably assume to be able to know who is the "elect" and who isn't.

:::comes out of the closet:::

......

:::looks ahead and sees a gray-haired man in a quaint suit holding up a cross and screaming "JESUS!...is lord" after giving hush money to a shemale prostitute:::

......

:::looks to the right and witnesses an Arab gentleman yodeling "Salaam aleykum, fucker! Ayayayayay!" right before he blows up an orphanage for gay kids:::

......

:::looks to the left, where a "modern liberal" senator can be heard on the loudspeakers talking about one of his best friends who, by random chance, happened to be gay:::

......

:::walks back into the closet:::

They came out. They got in the damn way. They tried to convert everyone else. I fought back. :)

As I said, if those darkies would just quiet down and act right, we could have peace and order.

Nah, nice try though. Now I'm the president of a pro-traditional family values organization and our group is stronger than ever.

Just curious, but what exactly is a "traditional family" and where do we find this family in history?

where do we find this family in history?

>>

<<

*Whistles inconspicuously after having hidden it in his pocket.

Just curious, but what exactly is a "traditional family" and where do we find this family in history?

In the hearts and dreams of every neo-con.

Unfortunately, that's the only place it'll ever be.

:::comes out of the closet:::

......

:::looks ahead and sees a gray-haired man in a quaint suit holding up a cross and screaming "JESUS!...is lord" after giving hush money to a shemale prostitute:::

......

:::looks to the right and witnesses an Arab gentleman yodeling "Salaam aleykum, fucker! Ayayayayay!" right before he blows up an orphanage for gay kids:::

......

:::looks to the left, where a "modern liberal" senator can be heard on the loudspeakers talking about one of his best friends who, by random chance, happened to be gay:::

......

:::walks back into the closet:::
Does this mean six more weeks of winter?

Does this mean six more weeks of winter?

Nukular winter, maybe?

In the hearts and dreams of every neo-con.

Fortunately, that's the only place it'll ever be.

Corrected for accuracy. :cool:

Corrected for accuracy. :cool:

Look at my posting history. You know what I meant. :(

My tired mind forgot to insert the "for them"

*Reaches into pocket* That's a mighty big family you've got there!

Nah, I'm just happy to see you! :D

Unyielding and absolute obedience to the LordOoh kinky.

>>

<<

*Whistles inconspicuously after having hidden it in his pocket.*Reaches into pocket* That's a mighty big family you've got there!

Look at my posting history. You know what I meant. :(

My tired mind forgot to insert the "for them"

no harm intended. I knew what you meant so I thought it OK to "correct" you. :fluffle:

no harm intended. I knew what you meant so I thought it OK to "correct" you. :fluffle:

It was. :)

I'm just in sore need of sleep. For some really odd reason.

So that's why I'm so angry today!

Simple, algebraic truth

Who invented algebra again?

Who invented algebra again?

The Muslims, but I'm assuming that was your point. :cool:

And I'd like to point out to the "Christians" who keep yelling about God and sin and what not, that my transsexual gay self attends church every week and I consider myself a strong Christian. I'd appreciate not being given a bad name.

Who invented algebra again?

The Arabian peoples discovered it, but he's being homophobic here, not anti-Islamic.

The homos should have a "National go back into the closet day", where they shut up and stop harassing society.

Ooh! Can the heteros have one too?
On National Hetero Closeting Day we will ban all displays of heterosexual love & affection completely.
Let's see, that means:
Your hetero marriages will be annulled
All entertainment containing themes of heterosexual attraction will be banned
ad women and men suspected of interacting in a romantic manner towards each other will be beaten.

Sound fun?

Seriously, society wouldn't require harassment if people were treated equally no matter what their sexual orientation. Give us our rights and we don't have to fight for them.

Jesus suppered with the prostitutes, tax-collectors, and various other sinners... The typical "Christian" would rather relegate them to second class (or worse) citizens.

The gulf between "Christian" and Christian has grown wider and wider.
"I like your Christ. I do no like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ"
Ooh! Can the heteros have one too?
On National Hetero Closeting Day we will ban all displays of heterosexual love & affection completely.
Let's see, that means:
Your hetero marriages will be annulled
All entertainment containing themes of heterosexual attraction will be banned
ad women and men suspected of interacting in a romantic manner towards each other will be beaten.

Sound fun?

Aside from the beating bit that would actually make for a very interesting day.

"I like your Christ. I do no like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ"

Aside from the beating bit that would actually make for a very interesting day.

Lovely quote btw.

I was thinking so too, the beating bit was more about driving home a point.
(apologies for the awful unavoidable pun)
It would be a great wake up call methinks.

Lovely quote btw.

I was thinking so too, the beating bit was more about driving home a point.
(apologies for the awful unavoidable pun)
It would be a great wake up call methinks.

Indeed. A day without heteronormativity would probably open quite a few eyes.


Though some people would probably bury their heads in the sand and cry until the day after.

Indeed. A day without heteronormativity would probably open quite a few eyes.

Though some people would probably bury their heads in the sand and cry until the day after.

Ooh!
We can make them cry?
I hadn't thought about that.

But it would open eyes I'm sure.
(which would be a bugger when they got sand in them)

Now to make this a valid topic, for gays, lesbians, and bisexuals who are already out of the closet, please share your experience of actually coming out of the closet, what was it like? Was family and friends supportive, weren't they? We demand to know! ;)
I am ridiculously lucky. I was born to two awesome parents who were always honest and loving. I was brought up to believe that sex and sexuality are not shameful, dirty, or sinful. I was taught that my feelings were okay no matter what they were. I learned that the only thing that matters when you choose a partner is whether or not you make each other happy and are a good team.

I never "came out" to my parents. I never needed to, because we would have spontaneous conversations about relationships and sex and all that stuff without having to make a big production about it. We never had The Talk. We just always talked.

The closest I have to a "coming out" story is from my sophomore year of high school. Several of my friends had joined a gay student support group, and one day one of them came to ask if I would be interested in coming to the group. I said I would be. My friend paused, and then asked, "Um, so, um. Are you gay? Because nobody can figure out if you are or not." That was the first time I used what is now one of my common answer to that question: "I'm as gay as I am straight."

:DPlease dont take me wrong here, but ladies and gentlemen of all sexual orientation i have a question. Why is there a Coming Out Day for homo/bi-sexual people? if we are created equally, then why is one orientation getting more than the other?

That last question is a very good one. Why is one orientation allowed legal equality, and all others are not? Why is one orientation celebrated, while all others are not?

Why is there a National Coming Out Day? Because coming out has been made into such a traumatic and difficult process for so many non-heterosexuals.

It seems like you are an equality-minded individual, so I'm sure you share my goal of creating a world in which non-heterosexuals are treated with equal respect and dignity. When we have achieved this goal, we will no longer need a National Coming Out Day.

That was the first time I used what is now one of my common answer to that question: "I'm as gay as I am straight."

You know, that could also be taken to mean you're asexual.

Though it's good that your parents were cool enough that you never had to have them "deal" with your sexuality. Acceptance is a great thing. Being straight, it's not really an issue with me with my parents, but I always assumed they were homophobic, or at least that my dad was (they're both somewhat traditional and somewhat devout Hindus) until we found out that the neighbors next door at our new (at the time) lake house were a lesbian couple. We all frequently hang out when we're up there on weekends now.

You know, that could also be taken to mean you're asexual.

Not by anybody who knows me. ;)



Though it's good that your parents were cool enough that you never had to have them "deal" with your sexuality. Acceptance is a great thing. Being straight, it's not really an issue with me with my parents, but I always assumed they were homophobic, or at least that my dad was (they're both somewhat traditional and somewhat devout Hindus) until we found out that the neighbors next door at our new (at the time) lake house were a lesbian couple. We all frequently hang out when we're up there on weekends now.
I had a lesbian godmother when I was little, so it was pretty obvious my folks were cool with it.

For a while my mom was trying to encourage me to be lesbian because it's safer, too. She'd keep telling her friends and colleagues to bring their cute daughters around and stuff, and keep hinting that I should ask out some of my female friends. It was mostly joking, though I noticed she did it a lot more after she'd been dealing with a teen mom client of hers...

The Arabian peoples discovered it, but he's being homophobic here, not anti-Islamic.

Well, i haven't heard so much "Allah" thrown around of late.

The Muslims, but I'm assuming that was your point. :cool:

*bows*

the "Christians" who keep yelling about God and sin and what not,It's usually the case for people who wear their "faith" on the outside.