NationStates Jolt Archive

This is insane.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/10/cleveland.shooting/index.html

your thoughts?

Witnesses told WKYC that the 14-year-old gunman was upset about being suspended for fighting earlier this week. He came to the school Wednesday with a gun in each hand and began firing.

Little punk needs to learn that the world doesn't revolve around him.

In before "ban guns to stop violence." vs "arm everyone to stop violence" argument begins.

Little punk needs to learn that the world doesn't revolve around him.

uhh...he's dead...

Little punk should have learnt that the world doesn't revolve around him.

This thread will be fine as long as Canuk doesn't enter.

Guns are bad, m'kay? :sniper: *

...blah! That came out wrong. :)

Seriously? While the second amendment needs to be re-evaluated, guns should not be completely outlawed. It seems like it is way too easy to acquire a gun in the US (I realise it probably isn't but when you hear about this kind of thing, it creates the illusion of a lawless haven for gun nuts).
















* My one-time use of a gun smiley. I promise it'll never happen again.

It's weird how the only place I keep hearing about these school shootings is on this forum, and I live in the US, read the newspaper and listen to the radio.

This is insane.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/10/cleveland.shooting/index.html

your thoughts?

The only real problem here is the way it is reported. There needs to be a distinct change in the tone in which they are reporting to appeal to further would be shooters.

Today a cowardly and incredibly stupid individual came to school today and used excessive violence. He is now dead mainly due to his inability to cope with society and had the brain of an ant.

We express our sympathies to the victims and their families.

It's weird how the only place I keep hearing about these school shootings is on this forum, and I live in the US, read the newspaper and listen to the radio.

That's because Nationstates is BBCCNNABCFOXCCTVAJR. We have correspondents in nigh on every news source there is.

The only real problem here is the way it is reported. There needs to be a distinct change in the tone in which they are reporting to appeal to further would be shooters.

Today a cowardly and incredibly stupid individual came to school today and used excessive violence. He is now dead mainly due to his inability to cope with society and had the brain of an ant.

We express our sympathies to the victims and their families.

Or you know, he had a serious mental illness that no one knew about.

Never, under ANY circumstances call people stupid just because they're murderous assholes.

Besides the Indians, the Cavs, Case Western, Severance Hall and John Carroll University, Cleveland sucks. It sucks real hard and real bad.

This is insane.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/10/cleveland.shooting/index.html

your thoughts?

That there was one more person out of billions, who decided to kill random people and then himself because he couldn't cope with reality. Happens a lot.

now, don't get me wrong, by now means am i defending this kid. what he did was insane and wrong...but.........................

all these outbursts from kids all across the nation. either something's up with the schools, or just general public.
i think there is no reason for there to be this much crap going around. none. i know that you cannot patrol around and put every school on lock-down, but i think some sort of study or at least THOUGHT should be taken into acount about the reality of the teenage population in america. honestly. :headbang:

Besides the Indians, the Cavs, Case Western, Severance Hall and John Carroll University, Cleveland sucks. It sucks real hard and real bad.


AY! stop insulting Ceveland! you left out the Browns!

That there was one more person out of billions, who decided to kill random people and them himself because he couldn't cope with reality. Happens a lot.

I've not killed thousands of people. Billions, even. How come I never appear on the news?

This is sure to turn into a giant Gun control debate, or a thread about how guns cause all the problems in the world. SO I'll just get my 2 cents in, and leave.

If guns kill people, then pencils miss spel words, cars make people drive drunk, and spoons made Roise O'donald fat.

I've not killed thousands of people. Billions, even. How come I never appear on the news?

I didn't mean that he was one of billions of people that have killed others, but that he was one person out of billions of people, who have killed others...hrm.. reading that, it doesn't sound very clear.

Anyway, you don't appear on the news because you have a bad PR crew.

AY! stop insulting Ceveland! you left out the Browns!

The Browns aren't The Browns, ya' understand?

Surely had someone merely told him that guns were banned on campus this never would have happened!

Best wishes for the victims and their families.

Surely had someone merely told him that guns were banned on campus this never would have happened!

Best wishes for the victims and their families.

Or maybe if they'd have just installed metal detectors! Those totally woulda stopped him from shooting up the place. Or, you know, not.

I must lol at the fact that he used a gun in each hand. Good thing he didn't only use one... He might have actually killed someone. Besides himself, I mean.

Or maybe if they'd have just installed metal detectors! Those totally woulda stopped him from shooting up the place. Or, you know, not.

I must lol at the fact that he used a gun in each hand. Good thing he didn't only use one... He might have actually killed someone. Besides himself, I mean.

Indeed, he got learn the hard way that video game shooting is not like shooting real guns.

Witnesses told WKYC that the 14-year-old gunman was upset about being suspended for fighting earlier this week. He came to the school Wednesday with a gun in each hand and began firing.

Ahahahah! Aaah...woo...hah...I'm going to hell.

I truly have nothing to add, no condolences, nothing. This is what the world has brought, school shootings are certainly not a new phenomena. It's sad, truly, but at least there won't be such a budget issue, with one less student and all.

Indeed, he got learn the hard way that video game shooting is not like shooting real guns.

He was just bein' gangsta.

I'll write up my story and send it to all the major networks. Then, after a particularly sad piece of news like this, they can segue into, "In happier news, [NS]Jesus continues his non-violent, inoffensive, and quiet rampage of peace. We now go live to where he is currently being polite to a stranger."

That would shock the general public. Enough to bring them to their knees...er..bring them to tears. :)

I guess he just couldn't deal with the fact that his life was worthless and he contributed nothing to the world, and he never would have. Now he's dead like all the other assholes. Way to fucking go, jackass, if you're gonna' shoot yourself in the face, just make sure no bullets hit anyone else. We want to live!

I didn't mean that he was one of billions of people that have killed others, but that he was one person out of billions of people, who have killed others...hrm.. reading that, it doesn't sound very clear.

Anyway, you don't appear on the news because you have a bad PR crew.

I'll write up my story and send it to all the major networks. Then, after a particularly sad piece of news like this, they can segue into, "In happier news, [my real name] continue his non-violent, inoffensive, and quiet rampage of peace. We now go live to where he is currently being polite to a stranger."

also, shooting people is mean. I also wonder how many of us think about going on a shooting rampage, but pull back just at the last minute. I think it's probably a good thing my guns aren't in my house.

Not I.

I think about side-kicking people, cracking a few ribs and such.
Assuming I am that angry.

Yeah another one, and then we'll have 5 copycats after this. Well at least the media won't be whining about global warming for a few days. Still though, atrocities indeed...

I'll write up my story and send it to all the major networks. Then, after a particularly sad piece of news like this, they can segue into, "In happier news, [my real name] continue his non-violent, inoffensive, and quiet rampage of piece. We now go live to where he is currently being polite to a stranger."

piece of what? pie?

is there pie?









*wants pie*


also, shooting people is mean. I also wonder how many of us think about going on a shooting rampage, but pull back just at the last minute. I think it's probably a good thing my guns aren't in my house.

Hmmm...

Now is my opportunity to release my long-awaited study that shooting people has been linked to heart disease, cancer, and a loss of fuel economy in your vehicle. ;)

Even if you miss this one, you probably only have to wait a week or two before Mr. Opportunity shoots again. :(

Hmmm...

Now is my opportunity to release my long-awaited study that shooting people has been linked to heart disease, cancer, and a loss of fuel economy in your vehicle. ;)

piece of what? pie?

is there pie?









*wants pie*


I'd feel insulted if I hadn't just done the exact same thing to someone else's post.

I'd feel insulted if I hadn't just done the exact same thing to someone else's post.

I hardly ever do it, you should feel honored. (or honoured depending on where you are from)

also, I was in a bad mood, so apologies for taking it out on you.

is there pie?;)

I wasn't really insulted, I was kidding.
And since there you apologized, yes, there is pie.
8.53973422

Ha! wow... that is disproportionately funny. :D

This just shows that medicating every problem is NOT the solution. Almost every anti-depressant INCREASES suicidal thoughts and most shootings involve them. It also shows that school security plans are pure and utter bullshit. The wearing ID policy at my school serves no legitimate purpose. Anyone could still walk in with a gun and shoot any aide before they finish saying "Where's your ID?" Metal detectors are pointless if the gunman just charges through and shoots everyone.

The only solution is to find what causes the shootings (besides medications), and it's not Marilyn Manson.

I hardly ever do it, you should feel honored. (or honoured depending on where you are from)

also, I was in a bad mood, so apologies for taking it out on you.

is there pie?;)
I wasn't really insulted, I was kidding.
And since there you apologized, yes, there is pie.
8.53973422

I wasn't really insulted, I was kidding.
And since there you apologized, yes, there is pie.
8.53973422

3.14159

3.14159

No no, that's pi. Pie (or pi*e) is 8.53973422.

No no, that's pi. Pie (or pi*e) is 8.53973422.

*doesn't care*

How much do you want to bet that they're going to blame this on some video game soon enough?
Because, you know, shooting a gun in GTA is exactly like firing a weapon in real life. You just push the R1 button to lock on and then the O button to fire. Maybe fewer people would go on shooting rampages if firing a pistol didn't require hitting two buttons.
But of course, I would know since I played this horribly violent game before and then went on a shooting rampage.

And if you can't tell that I'm being sarcastic, then you just suck at life.
Video games may increase the chance of "violent behavior", but what is meant by "violent" anyways?
Last time I checked, there isn't a single video game that teaches you exactly how to wield a weapon in real-life. Because it isn't just about lining up a dot with someone's head and hitting a button.
And a vast majority of people that play these games don't kill people. Just because some one little idiot's parents failed and couldn't raise their kid properly, we all have to suffer?

Oh, and it's a very bad thing that happened.
I live in the Cleveland area... well, I live down in Macedonia area, but it's still very close. So there's going to be a lot about it on the news.
Woot.

*doesn't care*

Its the difference between pumpkin pi and apple pie.

It's weird how the only place I keep hearing about these school shootings is on this forum, and I live in the US, read the newspaper and listen to the radio.

I received a breaking news alert email from CNN. The kid shooter dead? I should mourn and I am. For his parents and not for the kid.

How much do you want to bet that they're going to blame this on some video game soon enough?
Because, you know, shooting a gun in GTA is exactly like firing a weapon in real life. You just push the R1 button to lock on and then the O button to fire. Maybe fewer people would go on shooting rampages if firing a pistol didn't require hitting two buttons.
But of course, I would know since I played this horribly violent game before and then went on a shooting rampage.

And if you can't tell that I'm being sarcastic, then you just suck at life.
Video games may increase the chance of "violent behavior", but what is meant by "violent" anyways?
Last time I checked, there isn't a single video game that teaches you exactly how to wield a weapon in real-life. Because it isn't just about lining up a dot with someone's head and hitting a button.
And a vast majority of people that play these games don't kill people. Just because some one little idiot's parents failed and couldn't raise their kid properly, we all have to suffer?

Oh, and it's a very bad thing that happened.
I live in the Cleveland area... well, I live down in Macedonia area, but it's still very close. So there's going to be a lot about it on the news.
Woot.

I'd say it's not so much video games causing violent behavior as much as it is violent people liking to play violent video games. The games didn't make them violent, they just play them because they enjoy the violence. Or the challenging gameplay. Whatever.

You'd be surprised how many people think they can learn to shoot by watching movies and playing games. But I know more than a few people who think that watching a lot of action movies makes you an expert on firearms...

But I know more than a few people who think that watching a lot of action movies makes you an expert on firearms...

Well, I've heard from my mom that it's pretty hard to shoot a gun.
And that wouldn't even factor in the environment... because I doubt that everyone just stood around while that kid aimed and fired. There's probably a lot of panic, people are running all over, he's probably not stationary himself... blah blah blah.

And as for violent behavior: When people run studies on this sort of thing, they make people play a violent game first. And since they can't give them guns or knives to see if they'll attack people, they see if they'll perform such horrific acts as punching a clown doll or "sound-blasting" an opponent. These activites have been known to see an increase, but just because someone will punch a doll, that really doesn't mean that they'd just as soon punch a real person.

And of course, people that are known to be more violent anyways elicit more violent responses.
It's called "personal responsibility" and "raising children correctly".
(Oh, and I'm also majoring in Psychology, so I know quite a bit about these sort of experiments... that, and EGM did an article about these experiments in their 2007 August issue)

Witnesses told WKYC that the 14-year-old gunman was upset about being suspended for fighting earlier this week.

Yeesh.
Thank goodness no one was killed this time.
Well… no random bystanders anyway.

This thread will be fine as long as Canuk doesn't enter.
Ahhhh, a little flamebait, with a side order of trolling. And off topic as well.

You have a problem with open debate and free speech?

These stories strongly suggest to me that guns are too easily available in the US and the consequences are severe.

Ahhhh, a little flamebait, with a side order of trolling. And off topic as well.

You have a problem with open debate and free speech?

These stories strongly suggest to me that guns are too easily available in the US and the consequences are severe.

And your proof would be? Oh wait...you have none. *goes off to some different place*

your thoughts?

"So what?"

And your proof would be? Oh wait...you have none. *goes off to some different place*

Well, where does a 14 year old get two handguns? Hmm?
Guns must be pretty available, if they are used in such incidents so frequently.

Well, where does a 14 year old get two handguns? Hmm?

Why not ask the parents where he got them. If not from their house then he got them illegally.

Guns must be pretty available, if they are used in such incidents so frequently.

Funny. I do not see school shootings everyday. WOW!!! Frequently my ass.

Why not ask the parents where he got them. If not from their house then he got them illegally.

Whether through his parents or illegally: he still got them.
For people to have guns, guns must be available.

Ahhhh, a little flamebait, with a side order of trolling. And off topic as well.

You have a problem with open debate and free speech?

These stories strongly suggest to me that guns are too easily available in the US and the consequences are severe.

I think what New Stalinberg may be trying to say is, once you (and certain others) come into one of these school shooting threads, it becomes a battle of semantics, the same data that's always used/abused, and more than a little bit of, "ZOMG, GUNZ R BAD N STUF!" vs "CARZ KILL MOREZ PEEPEL THAN GUNZ DOOOOOOOO!".

For people to have guns, guns must be available.

Or maybe firearms can be made (although I know in this case, that wasn't what happened). It's not rocket science.

Funny. I do not see school shootings everyday. WOW!!! Frequently my ass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings#Well_known_shootings
From the beginning of the 2006 school year, 8 incidents have occured in the United States and Canada.

Or maybe firearms can be made (although I know in this case, that wasn't what happened). It's not rocket science.

They're getting them from you, aren't they? :p

Whether through his parents or illegally: he still got them.

And now comes the how did he get them part. He had to have gotten them from somewhere. Remember, it is a known statistic that most gun violence is done by a gun that was purchased illegally or stolen.

For people to have guns, guns must be available.

What's your point? none. Why? because we do not know how he got it. If he got it from his parents then I have to question why the Parents did not keep it out of reach of him. If he got it illegally...that opens up a whole new can of worms.

They're getting them from you, aren't they? :p

LOL.

No, they're not.







My name came from when I used to visit the Nationstates RP forums.

Well, where does a 14 year old get two handguns? Hmm?
Guns must be pretty available, if they are used in such incidents so frequently.
Exactly!!

In 2005, $93,487,243 worth of firearms were stolen in the US. Thats an awful lot of stolen guns. Better storage laws would help cut down on the availability.

Also:

Following the Gun (http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/pdf/following/chap1.pdf):

Many criminals obtain their guns from the illegal market supplied by a variety of sources: unlicensed sellers who buy guns with the purpose of reselling them; fences; corrupt Federal firearms licensees (FFLs); and straw purchasers who buy guns for other unlicensed sellers, criminal users,
and juveniles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings#Well_known_shootings
From the beginning of the 2006 school year, 8 incidents have occured in the United States and Canada.

Thank you. You proved my point that they do not happen everyday. You sir, have just been served.

What's your point? none.

I think what New Stalinberg may be trying to say is, once you (and certain others) come into one of these school shooting threads, it becomes a battle of semantics…

See above.

Whether through his parents or illegally: he still got them.
For people to have guns, guns must be available.
Exactly!!

(also celebrating the collapse of the PC's in Ontario). :)

Exactly!!

In 2005, $93,487,243 worth of firearms were stolen in the US. Thats an awful lot of stolen guns. Better storage laws would help cut down on the availability.

I like to see you actually back that one up. I mean...let us look at jewelry hiests. Those rocks can fetch a much higher price than a gun can. So why don't we have better storage for diamonds?

CH, you just proved a point against the point you were trying to make. Oh the irony.

Thank you. You proved my point that they do not happen everyday. You sir, have just been served.

Eight times in a bit over a year != every day.
Eight times in a bit over a year == frequently.

Were the victims atheists? If so, the Lord will be overjoyed.

I like to see you actually back that one up. I mean...let us look at jewelry hiests. Those rocks can fetch a much higher price than a gun can. So why don't we have better storage for diamonds?

CH, you just proved a point against the point you were trying to make. Oh the irony.

(Clutching at straws)
Edit: Actually, I guess you could grind up diamonds and put them in people's food… a new menace to society!

(also celebrating the collapse of the PC's in Ontario). :)

Yay! We could have an internet party. With internet alcohol?

Eight times in a bit over a year != every day.
Eight times in a bit over a year == frequently.

Actually no. Nice try with numbers though.

Ahhhh, a little flamebait, with a side order of trolling. And off topic as well.

You have a problem with open debate and free speech?
The only thing we have a problem with is your trolling gun threads with your "guns are the source of all evil" and "if guns were banned there would be no crime or violence or any suffering" arguments, your personal attacks, and your tendency to ignore data that directly contradicts your beliefs.

These stories strongly suggest to me that guns are too easily available in the US and the consequences are severe.
You (http://thedisease.net/functions.php?&arcanum=gunsmithing/Shotgun_Pistol.pdf) can (http://www.filelime.com/upload/files/Expedient-Homemade-Firearms-Vol-II-PA-Luty.pdf) build (http://thedisease.net/functions.php?&arcanum=gunsmithing/Knuckle_Gun.pdf) them (http://science.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun.htm) too (http://thedisease.net/functions.php?&arcanum=gunsmithing/Slam_Bang_Shotgun.pdf). So banning them won't do much to get rid of them, people like me will just make a fortune on the black market.

I like to see you actually back that one up. I mean...let us look at jewelry hiests. Those rocks can fetch a much higher price than a gun can. So why don't we have better storage for diamonds?

CH, you just proved a point against the point you were trying to make. Oh the irony.
Quit trolling and start coming up with points of debate.

This has nothing to do with stealing diamonds.....this is about school shootings!!

Quit trolling and start coming up with points of debate.

This has nothing to do with stealing diamonds.....this is about school shootings!!

HAHAHA!! Nice one CH. I score a point and you immediately call me a troll. HAHA. You mentioned storage cases. Guess what diamonds are stored in. You got it! Storage cases. Point valid based on subject.

You lose.

The only thing we have a problem with is your trolling gun threads with your "guns are the source of all evil" and "if guns were banned there would be no crime or violence or any suffering" arguments, your personal attacks, and your tendency to ignore data that directly contradicts your beliefs.


You (http://thedisease.net/functions.php?&arcanum=gunsmithing/Shotgun_Pistol.pdf) can (http://www.filelime.com/upload/files/Expedient-Homemade-Firearms-Vol-II-PA-Luty.pdf) build (http://thedisease.net/functions.php?&arcanum=gunsmithing/Knuckle_Gun.pdf) them (http://science.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun.htm) too (http://thedisease.net/functions.php?&arcanum=gunsmithing/Slam_Bang_Shotgun.pdf). So banning them won't do much to get rid of them, people like me will just make a fortune on the black market.
The irony......more trolling and flamebaiting, and the quotes you used were not my words EVER!!

You build them, and sell them illegally then you are a criminal. :D

Oh God, it's started already. :(

You (http://thedisease.net/functions.php?&arcanum=gunsmithing/Shotgun_Pistol.pdf) can (http://www.filelime.com/upload/files/Expedient-Homemade-Firearms-Vol-II-PA-Luty.pdf) build (http://thedisease.net/functions.php?&arcanum=gunsmithing/Knuckle_Gun.pdf) them (http://science.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun.htm) too (http://thedisease.net/functions.php?&arcanum=gunsmithing/Slam_Bang_Shotgun.pdf). So banning them won't do much to get rid of them, people like me will just make a fortune on the black market.

Enterprise! Plus you could probably learn all sorts of physics and chemistry concepts from that. :D

HAHAHA!! Nice one CH. I score a point and you immediately call me a troll. HAHA. You mentioned storage cases. Guess what diamonds are stored in. You got it! Storage cases. Point valid based on subject.

You lose.
You scored a point about diamond storage? :p

Once again, I find myself in the position of not replying to your trolling and flamebait.

The irony......more trolling and flamebaiting, and the quotes you used were not my words EVER!!

You build them, and sell them illegally then you are a criminal. :D

So anyone who disagrees with you is a troll huh? Well guess what? You are a troll.

You scored a point about diamond storage? :p

Maybe the stolen diamonds are used to finance the theft of firearms? ;)

You scored a point about diamond storage? :p

I'll give you that one but not much of it only because of the wording of the post. BTW: you still have yet to prove that it will lower availability if there was better storage.

Once again, I find myself in the position of not replying to your trolling and flamebait.

Boy you really have changed. Bring back the CH that used to believe in honest debate. The one who never called someone who disagreed with him a troll. All you have done since you and I began to re-interact is call all who disagree with you a troll.

I miss the Honest CH. Bring him back.

So anyone who disagrees with you is a troll huh? Well guess what? You are a troll.
Does he hate our Lord?

Does he hate our Lord?

Which one would that be, exactly?

Does he hate our Lord?

*raises an eyebrow*

Exactly!!

In 2005, $93,487,243 worth of firearms were stolen in the US. Thats an awful lot of stolen guns. Better storage laws would help cut down on the availability.



Prove it.

So anyone who disagrees with you is a troll huh? Well guess what? You are a troll.

Will you grow the fuck up already? I think maybe you should be reading your fucking bible instead of attacking everyone and their mother.

Seriously, grow the fuck up.

Prove it.

I asked him to do so! Twice actually.

Maybe the stolen diamonds are used to finance the theft of firearms? ;)
And stolen firearms increase the amount of stolen diamonds? Vicious cycle wot?

94 Million dollars worth of stolen firearms (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_24.html)in 1 year = one heckuva lot of guns on the street.

Will you grow the fuck up already? I think maybe you should be reading your fucking bible instead of attacking everyone and their mother.

Seriously, grow the fuck up.

I'm not the one throwing out the T word against everyone that disagrees with me. So do not tell me to grow up. Especially someone who drops the F-bomb three times in one post.

I asked him to do so! Twice actually.

No you didn't. You told him we needed better diamond storage laws.
There's a difference.

And stolen firearms increase the amount of stolen diamonds? Vicious cycle wot?

94 Million dollars worth of stolen firearms (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_24.html)in 1 year = one heckuva lot of guns on the street.

Blaming the victims of crime for the actions of criminals. How progressive.

Which one would that be, exactly?
It seems Satan has clouded thy mind. There is only one God.

It seems Satan has clouded thy mind. There is only one God.

Yeah… getting kinda fuzzy… evil satyr… overwhelming my mind!
*passes out*

I'm not the one throwing out the T word against everyone that disagrees with me. So do not tell me to grow up. Especially someone who drops the F-bomb three times in one post.

Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck.

Every time I see you "debating" you're always calling the person that disagrees with you a troll. You're a liar, you're a troll, you're not worth my time.

No you didn't. You told him we needed better diamond storage laws.
There's a difference.

Actually no. I see you missed the first sentence where I told him I would love to see proof of this. That's ok though. You tried at least.

Edit: I'm off to bed. I'll post more when I wake up.

Actually no. I see you missed the first sentence where I told him I would love to see proof of this. That's ok though. You tried at least.

I has contribution! :)
So you asked him once. Not twice. Now the serve is on the other… foot.

Edit: I'm off to bed. I'll post more when I wake up.

:(

Blaming the victims of crime for the actions of criminals. How progressive.
You want the right to own guns but don't want to be responsible for them. How regressive.

Will you grow the fuck up already? I think maybe you should be reading your fucking bible instead of attacking everyone and their mother.

Seriously, grow the fuck up.
Did your mother not teach you to avoid the use of expletives? Well, that certainly reveals much about her...

You want the right to own guns but don't want to be responsible for them. How regressive.

I have the right to own guns and what you consider "responsible" is a subjective term.

You blame the victims of crime for the actions of criminals and feel that they, not the criminals, should be held accountable.

Edit: Makes me wonder CH, do you feel a woman who doesn't dress "appropriately" is partially responsible for being raped?

I has contribution! :)
So you asked him once. Not twice. Now the serve is on the other… foot.



:(

*last post for the night*

It is twice. If you bothered to read the 6th page, you would see that I put "BTW: I'm still waiting on proof that better storage equals lower availability" or something like that.

Night all. I'll see what is posted here when I wake up in 6.5 hours or so.

Did your mother not teach you to avoid the use of expletives? Well, that certainly reveals much about her...

No, it wasn't her fault. The evil satyr overwhelmed her.

I'll give you that one but not much of it only because of the wording of the post. BTW: you still have yet to prove that it will lower availability if there was better storage.

Here's the second time I asked New Malachite Square

Here's the second time I asked New Malachite Square

Fair enough.

So are you saying this Rufino chap is half satyr? You're the forum gossip, aren't you?

No! No! Overwhelmed in a purely mental way! Not physical… or anything else.

Probably can't be trusted with anything.

*pockets Brazil's wallet*

No, it wasn't her fault. The evil satyr overwhelmed her.
So are you saying this Rufino chap is half satyr? You're the forum gossip, aren't you? Probably can't be trusted with anything.

I have the right to own guns and what you consider "responsible" is a subjective term.
Subjective alright. Gun owners who cannot be responsible for their deadly weapons, should not be allowed to own them.

You blame the victims of crime for the actions of criminals and feel that they, not the criminals, should be held accountable.
Gun owners should be held accountable for their weapons just like tellers are accountable for their cash on hand at the end of the day.

Edit: Makes me wonder CH, do you feel a woman who doesn't dress "appropriately" is partially responsible for being raped?
Irrelevant to the debate.

No, it wasn't her fault. The evil satyr overwhelmed her.
Ruffy is a guy and a good one at that!! :)

You want the right to own guns but don't want to be responsible for them. How regressive.

GET OUT!!

Ruffy is a guy and a good one at that!! :)

We're talking about Ruffy's mom:

Did your mother not teach you to avoid the use of expletives? Well, that certainly reveals much about her...

You want the right to own guns but don't want to be responsible for them. How regressive.
I think Coulter got the name of her excellent book wrong. It shouldnt've been Godless; that is a given when discussing liberal degenerates. It should've been "Gutless".

We're talking about Ruffy's mom:
Ahhh....so sorry.

Subjective alright. Gun owners who cannot be responsible for their deadly weapons, should not be allowed to own them.

Translation: I know I'm putting the onus of crime onto the victims so I'm going to jump around and avoid that fact.


Gun owners should be held accountable for their weapons just like tellers are accountable for their cash on hand at the end of the day.

Nice false analogy. Do the tellers own the money? Do they keep it in their private homes? Are they held accountable for it if they are robbed?


Irrelevant to the debate.

It's completely relevant. You're trying to blame firearm owners for being "irresponsible" and therefore should be held accountable for the criminal actions of others so it just follows that you would blame women who act "irresponsibly" as being accountable for being raped.

If you don't, then you are being a hypocrite.

Now provide evidence for your claim that "safe storage" laws would reduce availability.

GET OUT!!
If you have anything relative to the thread, please post.

Then why does the little asshole use expletives? It's the sign of a sinful person, you know.
I like Ruffy....a lot. He got pissed off at another poster. Shit happens.

BTW, you are a saint?

It's completely relevant. You're trying to blame firearm owners for being "irresponsible" and therefore should be held accountable for the criminal actions of others so it just follows that you would blame women who act "irresponsibly" as being accountable for being raped.

If you don't, then you are being a hypocrite.

That assumes women who dress scantily are being irresponsible.

Ruffy is a guy and a good one at that!! :)
Then why does the little asshole use expletives? It's the sign of a sinful person, you know.

I like Ruffy....a lot. He got pissed off at another poster. Shit happens.

BTW, you are a saint?

In answer to your question:

Then why does the little asshole use expletives? It's the sign of a sinful person, you know.

;)

Then why does the littleasshole use expletives? It's the sign of a sinful person, you know.

Hypocrite.

*licks Canucky*

That assumes women who dress scantily are being irresponsible.

Exactly. Subjective.

Hypocrite.
It was a trap. Thank you for highlighting the word in bright red, so the Lord can more clearly see your sinful defiance.

Translation: I know I'm putting the onus of crime onto the victims so I'm going to jump around and avoid that fact.
Don't you find that 94 Million dollars worth of stolen firearms alarming? How many guns would that be 94,000? 188,000? more?

That is a lot of stolen guns my friend...in one year no less!!

Nice false analogy. Do the tellers own the money? Do they keep it in their private homes? Are they held accountable for it if they are robbed?
Okay, bad analogy but you get the point? It is about accountability. Too many irresponsible gun owners = more guns on the streets = more dead people.

It's completely relevant. You're trying to blame firearm owners for being "irresponsible" and therefore should be held accountable for the criminal actions of others so it just follows that you would blame women who act "irresponsibly" as being accountable for being raped.
False analogy on your part. Lets stick to the gun crimes?

Now provide evidence for your claim that "safe storage" laws would reduce availability.
I am looking for an article that I read.....having a hard time finding it. When I find it, I will post it.

It was a trap. Thank you for highlighting the word in bright red, so the Lord can more clearly see your sinful defiance.

You're cute.

Fair enough.

It was a pleasure meeting you.

It was a trap. Thank you for highlighting the word in bright red, so the Lord can more clearly see your sinful defiance.

Oh brother. :rolleyes:

False analogy on your part. Lets stick to the gun crimes?

Ahh the Canuck Maneuver. When losing a debate, call something a false analogy and claim it to be off topic. That's the second time its been used in this thread.

I am looking for an article that I read.....having a hard time finding it. When I find it, I will post it.

ABout time. Its only been asked of you to do so four times.

I still don't see the point of that diamond storage bit......

I still don't see the point of that diamond storage bit......
Well, diamonds can be pointed. :rolleyes:

It made no sense to me either but it does to Corny?

Besides the Indians, the Cavs, Case Western, Severance Hall and John Carroll University, Cleveland sucks. It sucks real hard and real bad.

You no what sucks more?









THE BROWNS BITCH:rolleyes:

I like to see you actually back that one up. I mean...let us look at jewelry hiests. Those rocks can fetch a much higher price than a gun can. So why don't we have better storage for diamonds?

I still don't see how this is meant to counter the suggestion that better storage laws for guns would be good.

Of course if there more guns in America and everybody was forced to carry at least one fully automatic weapon concealed about their person the number of shootings would be reduced to zero.

I still don't see how this is meant to counter the suggestion that better storage laws for guns would be good.

CH states that better storage=less availability of guns. That is not true.

I stated that diamonds have great storage but the availability of diamonds has not decreased. That is true.

Ergo, better storage for guns does not mean that gun availiability will be lowered.

CH states that better storage=less availability of guns. That is not true.

I stated that diamonds have great storage but the availability of diamonds has not decreased. That is true.

Ergo, better storage for guns does not mean that gun availiability will be lowered.

don't tell me - you are a Professor of Logic?

don't tell me - you are a Professor of Logic?

Actually no. :D

Don't you find that 94 Million dollars worth of stolen firearms alarming? How many guns would that be 94,000? 188,000? more?

That is a lot of stolen guns my friend...in one year no less!!

All done by criminals.


Okay, bad analogy but you get the point? It is about accountability. Too many irresponsible gun owners = more guns on the streets = more dead people.

Your only "point" is that you continue to put the onus of crime onto the victims while at the same time continuing to use subjective terms to justify it.


False analogy on your part. Lets stick to the gun crimes?

You are blaming one segment of victims for criminal actions because of "irresponsible actions" yet are dodging around doing it for another group using the same terminology. The analogy is apt.


I am looking for an article that I read.....having a hard time finding it. When I find it, I will post it.

Still waiting for your article of absolute proof.

Of course if there more guns in America and everybody was forced to carry at least one fully automatic weapon concealed about their person the number of shootings would be reduced to zero.
I doubt this very highly. You might think that nobody would be stupid enough to go on a killing spree when everyone body has a gun. Never underestimate stupid people.
CH states that better storage=less availability of guns. That is not true.
Better storage means less guns are stolen, which means there are less stolen guns available to buy, which means there is less availability of guns.

I stated that diamonds have great storage but the availability of diamonds has not decreased. That is true.
For the same reason as above, it is not.

Ergo, better storage for guns does not mean that gun availiability will be lowered.

Except in that it will.

also, shooting people is mean. I also wonder how many of us think about going on a shooting rampage, but pull back just at the last minute. I think it's probably a good thing my guns aren't in my house.

I think we've all had thoughts like that, I know I did back when I was younger and wasn't really able to deal with the fact that I was different and that everyone made a big deal about my differences, in more ways than one.

Of course I'm now out of high school and college, so for me to go on a shooting rampage now would be pointless...

C'mon! Everyone knows that you shouldn't ban guns; just restrict them to the point where murderers, rapists, and tyranical governments go about their business...

Better storage means less guns are stolen, which means there are less stolen guns available to buy, which means there is less availability of guns.

Even though I can still go down to the gun store and buy whatever gun I want? yea the availability of guns will be reduced :rolleyes:

For the same reason as above, it is not.

Oh really? care to prove that the availability of diamonds is reduced?

Except in that it will.

Prove it. CH has failed to do so so far. Now what about you?

The idiot didn't even kill anyone the only fatality was the shooter. Pathetic, kids these days, don't know how to kill someone.

First step, don't come armed with a fucking .22 (http://www.threepanelsoul.com/view.php?date=2007-04-24).

The irony......more trolling and flamebaiting, and the quotes you used were not my words EVER!!

You build them, and sell them illegally then you are a criminal. :D

So if you ban guns only criminals will have guns? You're new at this ain't ya? 'Cause that's practically the NRA slogan.

You can. 14 year old boys who, for fuck only knows what reason, are inclined towards shooting up their school won't find it as easy.



It's pretty simple. Making guns or diamons harder to steal will mean that (shock horror) they will be harder to steal.
Since they're harder to steal, there's going to be less stolen ones.
Since there'll be less stolen ones, there'll be less stolen ones to sell.
Since there'll be less stolen ones to sell, there'll be less stolen ones to buy.
Since there'll be less stolen ones to buy, people who would have to resort to getting a gun/diamond illegally will find it harder to do so.
If said people are finding it harder to get guns/diamonds, one could say that guns/diamonds are less available.


So where is the proof? All I am seeing is logic and logic means jack when it comes to actual practice of human nature. Human Nature is illogical and can not be predicted. So now...where's the real proof?

You can. 14 year old boys who, for fuck only knows what reason, are inclined towards shooting up their school won't find it as easy.



It's pretty simple. Making guns or diamons harder to steal will mean that (shock horror) they will be harder to steal.
Since they're harder to steal, there's going to be less stolen ones.
Since there'll be less stolen ones, there'll be less stolen ones to sell.
Since there'll be less stolen ones to sell, there'll be less stolen ones to buy.
Since there'll be less stolen ones to buy, people who would have to resort to getting a gun/diamond illegally will find it harder to do so.
If said people are finding it harder to get guns/diamonds, one could say that guns/diamonds are less available.

So how do you enforce these gun storage laws? Lot of gun control laws are already unenforced, which is why there's so many illegal guns floating around. You can't just pass law after law and expect it to make a difference, you gotta enforce a few now and again.

Even though I can still go down to the gun store and buy whatever gun I want? yea the availability of guns will be reduced :rolleyes:
You can. 14 year old boys who, for fuck only knows what reason, are inclined towards shooting up their school won't find it as easy.

Oh really? care to prove that the availability of diamonds is reduced?

Prove it. CH has failed to do so so far. Now what about you?

It's pretty simple. Making guns or diamons harder to steal will mean that (shock horror) they will be harder to steal.
Since they're harder to steal, there's going to be less stolen ones.
Since there'll be less stolen ones, there'll be less stolen ones to sell.
Since there'll be less stolen ones to sell, there'll be less stolen ones to buy.
Since there'll be less stolen ones to buy, people who would have to resort to getting a gun/diamond illegally will find it harder to do so.
If said people are finding it harder to get guns/diamonds, one could say that guns/diamonds are less available.

Exactly!!

(also celebrating the collapse of the PC's in Ontario). :)

Yay! We could have an internet party. With internet alcohol?

I have even more to celebrate, Tory was soundly defeated in my riding. That made up for the NDP not being the ruling party, or for that matter, the opposition (and that is a joke given the Liberal majority).

I have internet weed...

Then why does the little asshole use expletives? It's the sign of a sinful person, you know.

It was a trap. Thank you for highlighting the word in bright red, so the Lord can more clearly see your sinful defiance.

That would be your sinful defiance, given that it is something you wrote. So, in the eyes of your "Lord", it is you who have sinned. You're the one who uttered the explicative deleted. And the shame of being called out by an Atheist.

Here are some articles dealing in some lesser known shootings (including some school shootings) where intervention by individuals - armed with guns, no less - stopped or prevented the continuation of violence.

http://timlambert.org/guns/appalachian/nd/tackle/gun/054.html
http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/101297/LA0540.htm
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10370&page=73
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_Square_shooting

The individuals who stopped the gunmen with their own weapons, which happened to be guns, did NOT continue the rampage. It's interesting to see that controlling guns saves lives. In these cases (indeed with all school shootings) gun control is working flawlessly well to disarm everyone but the shooter. What's also noteworthy, is that the last individual who intervened in the Trolley Square shooting - Kenneth Hammond, I think - was ignoring the "gun-free zone" policy of the mall. What if he had followed the rules?

I have a good reply but the Forum won't display my post!

This is insane.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/10/cleveland.shooting/index.html

your thoughts?
This is saddening...it's too bad he killed himself because it sounds to me like he needed a lot of mental help. At least no one else was killed.

What I want to know is why someone allowed a fourteen-year old to have weaponry. While I am all for the Second Amendment as a check on governmental power, I am also for sensible gun control legislation that keeps firearms out of the hands of those wishing to commit criminal acts with them, and I would also say that no teen should be allowed to handle a firearm unless there is some sort of signed permission slip by the police department, and then only for hunting. Certainly no need to let a fourteen-year-old handle revolvers.

I have a good reply but the Forum won't display my post!

That's something the forum does to stop people from making accounts and then spamming up the forum with advertisements. Not really anything you can do about it except post more. It stops happeneing after a while.

All done by criminals.

Your only "point" is that you continue to put the onus of crime onto the victims while at the same time continuing to use subjective terms to justify it.

You are blaming one segment of victims for criminal actions because of "irresponsible actions" yet are dodging around doing it for another group using the same terminology. The analogy is apt.
I will say it over and over, because I believe it to be true, and that is that many irresponsible gun owners make it easier for criminals to obtain weapons. I think of them as accomplices to the crimes that were committed with their stolen firearms.

Still waiting for your article of absolute proof.
Yeah, and when have either you or I been able to post anything that is the "absolute proof"?

States with high crime see more guns stolen (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002-12-17-guns-usat_x.htm)

Guns are more likely to be stolen in states with high crime rates, large numbers of gun owners and where laws are lacking on safe storage of firearms, according to a study released Wednesday.
The report by the Americans for Gun Safety Foundation says nearly 1.7 million firearms were reported to police as stolen from January 1993 through August 2002. The number of guns stolen per year has declined, from 221,322 reported in 1993 to 138,035 in 2001, the report says.

The study says the decline in gun thefts coincides with a simultaneous drop in crime in the USA and an increase in use of gun locks and storage devices.

The group, which advocates stronger gun-storage laws, relied on numbers collected by the FBI. The numbers show that nearly 688,000 stolen firearms were recovered during the 10-year period, leaving more than 1 million missing and most likely fueling the black market for criminals.

Nearly 10% of state prison inmates incarcerated on gun crimes say the weapons they used were stolen.

"A stolen gun is like gold to a criminal because it can be quickly resold without fear of it being traced," says Jim Kessler, the foundation's policy and research director.....

The report also says that the 18 states that have safe storage laws had 26.3% lower than average firearms thefts.

Of those states, four — Nevada, North Carolina, Texas and Florida — ranked in the top half of states measured by thefts per 1,000 households.

"The (National Rifle Association) has advocated for 131 years the significance of safe storage," says Andrew Arulanandam, a spokesman for the NRA.

BTW, this is not the article that I was looking for, but I will keep looking. In the meantime, this should suffice.

So where is the proof? All I am seeing is logic and logic means jack when it comes to actual practice of human nature. Human Nature is illogical and can not be predicted. So now...where's the real proof?
I don't see what this has to do with human nature. Human nature cannot spawn more guns out of nothingness. Is the idea that making guns harder to steal would lead to less stolen guns being sold and used really so hard for you to understand?
So how do you enforce these gun storage laws?

Unfortunately I don't know. Short of having random inspections I don't think there is anything you could really do to enforce such laws, and that would be prohibitivley(I am sure that is not spelled properly) expensive and time consuming.

I will say it over and over, because I believe it to be true, and that is that many irresponsible gun owners make it easier for criminals to obtain weapons. I think of them as accomplices to the crimes that were committed with their stolen firearms.


While I would highly disagree with the idea that they should be held responsible for any crimes committed, it is true that irresponsible gun owners contribute to crimes committed using firearms because they will often leave guns lying around or in some place where they could be easily stolen from.

Basically, gun owners need to be more responsible...though I fail to see how we could legislate this.

I don't see what this has to do with human nature. Human nature cannot spawn more guns out of nothingness. Is the idea that making guns harder to steal would lead to less stolen guns being sold and used really so hard for you to understand?

Considering that crooks are far more resourceful than they are given credit for...how do we know that better storage will lead to lower gun thefts? We don't.

Considering that crooks are far more resourceful than they are given credit for...how do we know that better storage will lead to lower gun thefts? We don't.

No, we don't, just like we don't know that a lot of things will work until we try them.

Is there some reason you think this wouldn't be worth a try? Do you have evidence that better gun storage is somehow harmful in some way?

Considering that crooks are far more resourceful than they are given credit for...how do we know that better storage will lead to lower gun thefts? We don't.

Oh, so since the criminals would outsmart any attempts made to protect guns from them, we should just not bother, and be content with people leaving their guns lying around, is that it? Or perhaps we should actaully try so that only the smartest and best prepared criminals will be able to steal them, rather than any dumbass who can smash a window.

No, we don't, just like we don't know that a lot of things will work until we try them.

Is there some reason you think this wouldn't be worth a try? Do you have evidence that better gun storage is somehow harmful in some way?

Oh its worth a try. I never said otherwise in reality though people on here will say I did. Will it work? I'm skeptical.

CH states that better storage=less availability of guns. That is not true.
Now it is time for YOU to post YOUR proof?

Considering that crooks are far more resourceful than they are given credit for...how do we know that better storage will lead to lower gun thefts? We don't.
I post proof that you asked for and you ignore it......still waiting for your proof to the contrary. :)

Oh its worth a try. I never said otherwise in reality though people on here will say I did. Will it work? I'm skeptical.
Then why don't you say that instead of acting as if the whole idea is horrible and shouldn't be tried? You have a lot to learn about properly communicating your arguments, Corny.

Then why don't you say that instead of acting as if the whole idea is horrible and shouldn't be tried?

Yea I know i should have but meh.

You have a lot to learn about properly communicating your arguments, Corny.

Where's the fun in that? :D

I don't see what this has to do with human nature. Human nature cannot spawn more guns out of nothingness. Is the idea that making guns harder to steal would lead to less stolen guns being sold and used really so hard for you to understand?


Unfortunately I don't know. Short of having random inspections I don't think there is anything you could really do to enforce such laws, and that would be prohibitivley(I am sure that is not spelled properly) expensive and time consuming.

Which makes this all academic, if you cannot enforce a law then the law may as well not exist. It may make you feel better, but it doesn't do anything else.

It's weird how the only place I keep hearing about these school shootings is on this forum, and I live in the US, read the newspaper and listen to the radio.

I live in the UK and even I hear about US school shootings

Which makes this all academic, if you cannot enforce a law then the law may as well not exist. It may make you feel better, but it doesn't do anything else.
Since some States do indeed have gun storage laws, perhaps it would be wise to investigate what makes those laws effective?

Meh. Over it. The first one was a buzz, but then the dozen or so since were a bit passe. The less you all care the less this shit will probably happen.

I will say it over and over, because I believe it to be true, and that is that many irresponsible gun owners make it easier for criminals to obtain weapons. I think of them as accomplices to the crimes that were committed with their stolen firearms.


Yeah, and when have either you or I been able to post anything that is the "absolute proof"?

States with high crime see more guns stolen (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002-12-17-guns-usat_x.htm)


BTW, this is not the article that I was looking for, but I will keep looking. In the meantime, this should suffice.

No it does not "suffice". It says nothing about the details of the state laws, what the requirements are, what the crime levels were before and after,etc.

Try again.

Why do all the school shootings seem to happen in the U.S? I'm not America-bashing, just honestly curious

Why do all the school shootings seem to happen in the U.S? I'm not America-bashing, just honestly curious

Our media is pathetic and sensationalist. School shootings get ratings, just like Paris Hilton and Britney Spears.

http://www.cjcj.org/pubs/shooting/shootings.html

Why do all the school shootings seem to happen in the U.S? I'm not America-bashing, just honestly curious

I think it has to do with our society. Not so much the whole "everybody should have the right to weapons", but the fact that in so ways American society has taken equality way to far. I'm not talking about civil rights and such but this idea that everybody has the same intelligence, the same athletic abilities, the same natural talents. I think this kind of atmosphere can damage self-esteem simply because a kid is never praised for or encouraged to excel with their gifts.

This also goes back to the media. The media almost never runs stories about how kids did something positive. It is always overshadowed by some random act of violence.

Also as a society I think America tends to turn the other way when stuff like this happens. We try to make excuses for why someone would do this and in a situation where we take the person alive it is absurdly difficult to get them charged as an adult or to get the most severe punishments brought against them. If at 12, 13, 14 you don't KNOW that shooting someone is WRONG, then it is far beyond the time you learn that there are serious consequences for your actions.

I actually think the reasons behind the factors that cause a person to go on a shooting spree are more relevant to this sort of debate then the availability of guns.

Our media is pathetic and sensationalist. School shootings get ratings, just like Paris Hilton and Britney Spears.

http://www.cjcj.org/pubs/shooting/shootings.html
An interesting factoid from that article:

A much more pressing issue for those concerned about the safety of children in America is the threat of everyday gun violence. As many as 8 kids a day are killed by guns. While most children killed by a gun are killed by an adult, kids are killed in gun accidents at 23 times the rate they are killed in schools. According to the Centers for Disease Control, children in America are 12 times more likely to die from guns than children in 25 other industrialized countries, including Israel and Northern Ireland.(50) While killings by juveniles with guns quadrupled from 1984 to 1994, non-gun killings by youths stayed the same.(51) Put another way, the entire increase in juvenile homicides between 1984 and 1994 was gun-related.
Amazing!!

An interesting factoid from that article:


Amazing!!

And how many of those homicides were gang/drug related?

And how many of those homicides were gang/drug related?

My guess is a majority of them?

Thanks for whoever hijacked this to a gun control thread. (Yeah, I'm pointing my finger at you Canuk)

Here's a news flash: Guns are ingrained into American society as much as Coca Cola is. Guns have been here since 1492, and they sure as hell aren't going to be leaving anytime soon.

I used to be an advocate of gun control, and then realized it's not going to do shit unless you act early and quickly. This worked with automatic weapons back in the 30s, requiring you to get a permit for them.

Guns don't kill people, (techincally the bullets do) people kill people. Guns just make killing people a helluva a lot easier.

Virtually everone owned guns back in the 1900s, but gun deaths were very low. You know why? Because people may have been poor, but they sure as fuck weren't going to go out and kill someone randomly like they do today. Sure there were bank robberies, but the victems were mainly cops. Innocent people weren't targets.

People also didn't shoot eachother for senseless violence like what happens today. If it did happen, it was purley gang wars.

It's not guns, it's society.

Why are crimes commited? Why are people killed? Money.

Poor people in the cities with access to firearms kill people for money when they try to steal, rob banks, or mug people. Why work hard when you can shoot someone and take his wallet, yeah?

Since getting rid of guns is not going to happen, the only way to combat the violence in general is to get people out of poverty.

Hell, I'd say lack of income is more dangerous than guns anyday.

My guess is a majority of them?

Since the number of deaths in schools was very low, and the number of child deaths by guns due to adults is quite high, I'd say many of them are domestic violence, abuse, and some gangs thrown in.

Since the number of deaths in schools was very low, and the number of child deaths by guns due to adults is quite high, I'd say many of them are domestic violence, abuse, and some gangs thrown in.

Actually, according to the DOJ 2006 report, of ALL children 17 and under, of known offenders, family accounts for 38% while Acquaintance or stranger accounted for 62%.

The 15-17 demographic was 8% family and 92 % Acquaintance or stranger.

Between 1980 and 2002, murder victims most likely to be killed by firearms were those age 16, regardless of gender.

The solution to school shootings is that guns shouldn't have children.

The solution to school shootings is that guns shouldn't have children.

Well then how would we ever have any baby guns?

http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/p32.html

Well then how would we ever have any baby guns?

http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/p32.html

Hehe. :)

Cracker ass got what he deserved.

Cleveland rocks niggaz

Cracker ass got what he deserved.

Cleveland rocks niggaz

nice trolling.

No it does not "suffice". It says nothing about the details of the state laws, what the requirements are, what the crime levels were before and after,etc.

Try again.
Yet, it would appear to be a positive step forward. You seem to loathe any form of gun control and seem to be very unconcerned about the poliferation of crime guns.

School shootings, and mass murder public shootings causes current gun laws to come under fire and rightly so.

And how many of those homicides were gang/drug related?
How did the shooters obtain their guns? Stolen from <cough>law abiding citizens<cough>, straw purchases, gun shows, crooked FFL's, etc.?

Where did these guns come from???

Guns don't kill People. People don't kill People. Sheeple kill People. Join E.M.O(Emergent Martian Outcasts) today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings#Well_known_shootings
From the beginning of the 2006 school year, 8 incidents have occured in the United States and Canada.

If you would have read the article, it says they are infrequent...

School shootings receive extensive media coverage but are infrequent.[1] They often result in nationwide changes of schools' policies concerning discipline and security. Some experts have described fears about school shootings as a type of moral panic.

If you would have read the article, it says they are infrequent...

Eight in a bit over a year? I say that's pretty frequent. Nothing, I admit, to be panicky about. But frequent nonetheless.

How did the shooters obtain their guns? Stolen from <cough>law abiding citizens<cough>, straw purchases, gun shows, crooked FFL's, etc.?

Where did these guns come from???


All the actions of criminals. Keep blaming the victims.

Yet, it would appear to be a positive step forward. You seem to loathe any form of gun control and seem to be very unconcerned about the poliferation of crime guns.

and once again CH has to resort to the innaccurate personal attacks since the facts don't fit his beliefs.

School shootings, and mass murder public shootings causes current gun laws to come under fire and rightly so.

You're right. All the laws disarming the people in "gun free zones" and punishing those who try to protect themselves should be questioned. I'm glad you agree.

and once again CH has to resort to the innaccurate personal attacks since the facts don't fit his beliefs.

He's good with that. Actually...its his trade mark.

You're right. All the laws disarming the people in "gun free zones" and punishing those who try to protect themselves should be questioned. I'm glad you agree.

LMAO!!!!

If this keeps up, these will all slide into "a million deaths is a statistic." I can already feeling it happening now.

Stalin?! Is that you?

If this keeps up, these will all slide into "a million deaths is a statistic." I can already feeling it happening now.

He's good with that. Actually...its his trade mark.
Still waiting for your proof.

and once again CH has to resort to the innaccurate personal attacks since the facts don't fit his beliefs.
I just call them as I see them. I don't see you advocating any kind of gun control at all.

Aren't you the least bit disturbed by these school shootings and these mass murders by firearms in your country?

Still waiting for your proof.

Of what? I got lost in the "debate".

I just call them as I see them. I don't see you advocating any kind of gun control at all.

Then you need some glasses. I guess you've just ignored my support of the NICS (which you oppose) and for allowing access to the checks (which you also oppose). Such a selective memory you have.

I just don't go around blaming the victims (which you do).

Aren't you the least bit disturbed by these school shootings and these mass murders by firearms in your country?

I'm also concerned about violent crime of all sorts, widespread corruption in legislators and police, and criminals being given free passed by the judiciary. My vision isn't limited to blaming an object.

Eight in a bit over a year? I say that's pretty frequent. Nothing, I admit, to be panicky about. But frequent nonetheless.

How many public schools and colleges are there in the US? So 8 in hundreds of thousands of schools, not counting colledges and universities. Is it really that frequent?

No, it's not frequent at all. These get a lot of press though and folks get really worked up over these it involves kids. Also, lot's of anti-this-and-that people like to exploit children and tragedy when normal people tire of their nazi-assed tactics so this is like a twofer.

I'd have to say that school shootings are more frequent - than say, police station shootings or military base shootings - because the shooters know 1. they'll have the most impact and the most media coverage because, 2. the targets won't be able to properly defend themselves with their own guns so, 3. they'll be able to keep shooting until the police arrive (which can be 15 to 45 minutes in metropolitan areas) or they run out of cartridges.
Our media loves school shootings because in America, bad news sells.

I'd have to say that school shootings are more frequent - than say, police station shootings or military base shootings - because the shooters know 1. they'll have the most impact and the most media coverage because, 2. the targets won't be able to properly defend themselves with their own guns so, 3. they'll be able to keep shooting until the police arrive (which can be 15 to 45 minutes in metropolitan areas) or they run out of cartridges.
Our media loves school shootings because in America, bad news sells.
School shootings are more frequent due to the availability of firearms, inadequate gun control, and underlying social/economic issues. I don't believe that it has anything to do with the individual(s) seeking notoriety.

From the SCHOOL VIOLENCE RESOURCE CENTER (http://www.svrc.net/Files/ViolentCrimeBP.pdf):

With this in mind, there are warning signs for a possible violent action by an individual, whether on or off the college campus. Flannery and Quinn-Leering of Kent State University collected these warning signs from a variety of sources.

1. A history of violence and/or being victimized
2. Threats of violence
3. An obsessive interest in weapons
4. A tendency to be isolated
5. The inability to get along with others
6. Excessive anger
7. Job loss
8. Breakup of a relationship
9. Alcohol and drug usage
10. Intolerance of differences
11. Gang affiliation
12. Poor attachment to school
13. Exhibiting impulsive behavior
14. Making violent drawings or writings

EUROPEAN PRESS REACTIONS (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,477686,00.html)

While I don't agree with all their comments, they do make good points.

*laughs at CH's lame attempt to prove that they happen more often than they actually do*

*laughs at CH's lame attempt to prove that they happen more often than they actually do*
* ignores Corny's feeble attempts to make any significant contributions to the debate. :D

* ignores Corny's continued trolling and flamebaiting.

* ignores Corny's feeble attempts to make any significant contributions to the debate. :D

* ignores Corny's continued trolling and flamebaiting.

Oh how cute. You think I'm trolling and flamebaiting when in fact, I am not. That's ok though. We all know all who disagree with you is a troll in your mind.

You two are really opposite sides of the same coin in so many ways. I don't even want to count the number of times you've accused each other of trolling and flambebaiting, to which the accused responded that the accuser always does that when people disagree with him.

After any school shooting, I've noticed that the mainstream media will shortly enter a period of analysis, where there will be speculation and accusations relating to any of the possible causes of the shooting. Some frequent favorites:

-Was the shooter a non-white individual? Aha! Clearly his brown skin made him do it!

-Was the shooter poor? Aha! Clearly poverty made him do it!

-Did the shooter use a gun that was legally owned by a family member? Aha! Lax gun control is what made this tragedy happen!

-Can we blame Satanism or Islam somehow? Pretty please?

But in all these discussions, and in all the blaming and shaming, there's one giant elephant in the room that never seems to be addressed. There's one thing about all the school shooters which is always the same, yet which is never addressed in the mainstream media. I find that very telling.

which is what, that they're all male?

Almost forgot.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/TheSteveslols/fitzsimmons.jpg

/thread

After any school shooting, I've noticed that the mainstream media will shortly enter a period of analysis, where there will be speculation and accusations relating to any of the possible causes of the shooting. Some frequent favorites:

-Was the shooter a non-white individual? Aha! Clearly his brown skin made him do it!

-Was the shooter poor? Aha! Clearly poverty made him do it!

-Did the shooter use a gun that was legally owned by a family member? Aha! Lax gun control is what made this tragedy happen!

-Can we blame Satanism or Islam somehow? Pretty please?

But in all these discussions, and in all the blaming and shaming, there's one giant elephant in the room that never seems to be addressed. There's one thing about all the school shooters which is always the same, yet which is never addressed in the mainstream media. I find that very telling.

You two are really opposite sides of the same coin in so many ways. I don't even want to count the number of times you've accused each other of trolling and flambebaiting, to which the accused responded that the accuser always does that when people disagree with him.
I really don't think it is a matter so much as disagreeing, it is a matter of one not contributing to the substance, and quality of the debate. Relying solely on personal opinions does not do too much to nurture a meaningful debate?

Corny and I have gone back and forth the past few years and lately I really have been trying to refrain from answering his posts. It has been difficult.

Thanks for reminding me what I need to do.

Almost forgot.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/TheSteveslols/fitzsimmons.jpg

But in all these discussions, and in all the blaming and shaming, there's one giant elephant in the room that never seems to be addressed. There's one thing about all the school shooters which is always the same, yet which is never addressed in the mainstream media. I find that very telling.
Tell us about this "giant elephant". Please.

I just read/found this:

His mother was charged with unlawful transfer of a firearm, possession of a firearm by a minor, corruption of a minor, endangering the welfare of a child and two counts of reckless endangerment. She was not accused of helping the teen plot an attack, "but by virtue of her indulgence, she enabled him to get in this position," Castor said. link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071012/ap_on_re_us/student_arsenal)

But how is it unlawful transfer when the gun is still in the owner's household? How is it possession of a firearm by a minor if the owner is of age and lives in the same house as the gun is stored in? If convicted, does this mean that every Dad that buys his child a deer hunting 30-30 on their 14 birthday is guilty as well? I doubt it.

I think the Prosecuting Attorney here is getting a bit over-zealous.

The endangerment of the minor stuff I agree with. The intent of these gun were obviously not for family hunting or home protection reasons, but something more negligent on her part, the mother is likely guilty of those three charges, but I bet the gun buying stuff turns out to be dismissed.

I just read/found this:

[

A little bit of media falsehood from the article:

"The search did not turn up any ammunition for the most dangerous firearm in the bunch, the assault rifle."

Sorry. Not an "assault rifle". Not even an "assault weapon". Just a semi-auto rifle in 9mm that looks scary to the ignorant.

I just read/found this:

His mother was charged with unlawful transfer of a firearm, possession of a firearm by a minor, corruption of a minor, endangering the welfare of a child and two counts of reckless endangerment. She was not accused of helping the teen plot an attack, "but by virtue of her indulgence, she enabled him to get in this position," Castor said. link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071012/ap_on_re_us/student_arsenal)

But how is it unlawful transfer when the gun is still in the owner's household? How is it possession of a firearm by a minor if the owner is of age and lives in the same house as the gun is stored in? If convicted, does this mean that every Dad that buys his child a deer hunting 30-30 on their 14 birthday is guilty as well? I doubt it.

I think the Prosecuting Attorney here is getting a bit over-zealous.

The endangerment of the minor stuff I agree with. The intent of these gun were obviously not for family hunting or home protection reasons, but something more negligent on her part, the mother is likely guilty of those three charges, but I bet the gun buying stuff turns out to be dismissed.
Interesting story, and although it is not related to the school shooting addressed in the OP, it demonstrates that there are other situations out there waiting to explode.

Interesting story, and although it is not related to the school shooting addressed in the OP, it demonstrates that there are other situations out there waiting to explode.

It seemed to me that you guys were talking about gun control, minors, and school shootings. I think the story I linked to is quite relevant.

I'll bet the quick police response to the first phone call about this situation was directly related to it being on the same day as the Cleveland shooting. Unlike the lack of response to the warnings about the Cleveland shooter.

It seemed to me that you guys were talking about gun control, minors, and school shootings. I think the story I linked to is quite relevant.
The story is very relevant. Thanks for posting it.

I'll bet the quick police response to the first phone call about this situation was directly related to it being on the same day as the Cleveland shooting. Unlike the lack of response to the warnings about the Cleveland shooter.
Perhaps the Cleveland shooting could have been avoided considering the following:

Coon had a previous arrest last year for a domestic violence incident, and police had been to his home before for incidents that involved weapons, according to McGrath.
What exactly did the police know about Coon and his weapons prior to this shooting. Although Coon was arrested for "domestic violence", the story doesn't say whether he was convicted or not?

The story is very relevant. Thanks for posting it.


Perhaps the Cleveland shooting could have been avoided considering the following:


What exactly did the police know about Coon and his weapons prior to this shooting. Although Coon was arrested for "domestic violence", the story doesn't say whether he was convicted or not?

Coon was on probation for something.

They did, however, arrest the older brother for what is being reported as a parole violation "not connected to the shooting".

My guess would be "older brother" got the guns for Coon through criminal contacts even though he denies it.

A little bit of media falsehood from the article:

"The search did not turn up any ammunition for the most dangerous firearm in the bunch, the assault rifle."

Sorry. Not an "assault rifle". Not even an "assault weapon". Just a semi-auto rifle in 9mm that looks scary to the ignorant.

Wow. Just wow. A hi-point 995 carbine is not an assault rifle, and a bunch of airsoft guns are not dangerous weapons. The kid does seem like a bit of a nutcase, but still. I have to say, it seems like the DA and everyone else involved is deliberately trying to misrepresent facts and cause panic by using tricking wording to make people think his arsenal of guns are actual guns. He describes the cache as "various weapons capable of firing projectiles"! They're just airsoft guns!