NationStates Jolt Archive


New Zealand joins calls for worldwide moratorium on death penalty

Ifreann
10-10-2007, 11:09
Good for New Zealand. I can't see any countries going along with it, but still, good show.


Oh snap, what's the penalty for thread theft?
Ariddia
10-10-2007, 11:10
New Zealand has joined an international push at the United Nations to seek abolition of the death penalty worldwide, Prime Minister Helen Clark said Wednesday.

The resolution at the U.N. — co-sponsored by countries including Brazil, East Timor, Gabon, Mexico, the Philippines and Portugal — will ask countries to impose a moratorium on executions as a first step toward abolition of the death penalty, she said.

Some 90 nations have abolished the death penalty for all crimes, 131 have done so in law or in practice and 66 retain it.

"Capital punishment is the ultimate form of cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment," Clark said in a statement marking World Day Against the Death Penalty. "The death penalty violates the right to life ... it is known to have been inflicted on the innocent," she added.


(link (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/10/10/asia/AS-GEN-New-Zealand-Death-Penalty.php))

The chances of this getting anywhere are virtually nil, but congratulations to those countries for raising the issue and trying.
Ifreann
10-10-2007, 11:13
yeah... sadly that'll sink like a turd in many places. not least the US...

It's from the UN, the US may as well not hear about it.
Pure Metal
10-10-2007, 11:15
yeah... sadly that'll sink like a turd in many places. not least the US...
Call to power
10-10-2007, 11:16
at the very least it will make an interesting U.N meeting

though I do have to say good on Brazil there turning into some sort of goodies

edit: do I see a connection? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7037038.stm)
Boonytopia
10-10-2007, 11:18
I wish our idiot leaders would back it.
Ifreann
10-10-2007, 11:24
at the very least it will make an interesting U.N meeting

though I do have to say good on Brazil there turning into some sort of goodies

edit: do I see a connection? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7037038.stm)

Argh, damned Poland! Can't we just let the Germans invade again? It'd be for the best.
Ifreann
10-10-2007, 11:28
not even Germany wants eastern Europe anymore :p

How about the Russians? Relive the good old Iron Curtain days?
Ariddia
10-10-2007, 11:29
edit: do I see a connection? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7037038.stm)

Apparently, yes.

Poland's government is seriously starting to piss me off with its "we're ultra-conservative and we can veto the rest of the EU, haha!" approach.
Call to power
10-10-2007, 11:31
Argh, damned Poland! Can't we just let the Germans invade again? It'd be for the best.

not even Germany wants eastern Europe anymore :p
Andaluciae
10-10-2007, 12:38
Good deal NZ. The sooner the death penalty is gone, the better.
Pacificville
10-10-2007, 12:53
I wish our idiot leaders would back it.

Many of them do. They just don't have a majority... Yet. ;)
Liminus
10-10-2007, 15:03
Many of them do. They just don't have a majority... Yet. ;)

Yup, and when it finally does happen, that'll be a great day, indeed, even with the bitching the general populace is sure to give. This is one of those things where it's not a majority rule matter, though.
Pacificville
10-10-2007, 15:07
Yup, and when it finally does happen, that'll be a great day, indeed, even with the bitching the general populace is sure to give. This is one of those things where it's not a majority rule matter, though.

Nah, it's easy to spin it for the bogan crowd.

"Imagine is Schapelle had have got the death sentence!"

The crowd would break out in applause and some "dey took our jorbs!" chants.
Demented Hamsters
10-10-2007, 15:17
ahh...no-one's gonna listen to NZ now, ever since they got booted from the RWC. again.
Risottia
10-10-2007, 16:01
The chances of this getting anywhere are virtually nil, but congratulations to those countries for raising the issue and trying.

No, I think there are good chances, it only takes a plain majority in the UN General Assembly.

The resolution at the U.N. — co-sponsored by countries including Brazil, East Timor, Gabon, Mexico, the Philippines and Portugal — will ask countries to impose a moratorium on executions as a first step toward abolition of the death penalty, she said.

Iirc, the moratorium is an italian proposal (Prodi cabinet), supported by the EU (EU banned death penalty), with Portugal and Germany (current and previous country presiding the EU) as strong co-supporters.
UN Protectorates
10-10-2007, 16:59
It'll get a majority in the General Assembly. It won't go down well with the US in the UNSC. It'll be vetoed.
The Parkus Empire
10-10-2007, 17:13
(link (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/10/10/asia/AS-GEN-New-Zealand-Death-Penalty.php))

The chances of this getting anywhere are virtually nil, but congratulations to those countries for raising the issue and trying.

Hm. Well, good for them.:)








(Oh, and as far as I'm concerned, they can go to hell.)
Mutton Lane
10-10-2007, 17:15
Argh, damned Poland! Can't we just let the Germans invade again? It'd be for the best.

Poland are new to this EU game.They will soon learn that when the other countries start doing the same with the devopment money earmarked for them that they will have to pull their heads in.
Ferrous Oxide
10-10-2007, 17:18
We really have to retain the death penalty for some things.
Ferrous Oxide
10-10-2007, 17:21
It'll get a majority in the General Assembly. It won't go down well with the US in the UNSC. It'll be vetoed.

Heh. China would be much more annoyed.
Ferrous Oxide
10-10-2007, 17:22
I wish our idiot leaders would back it.

Sure. AFTER the Bali Bombers are killed.
Lame Bums
10-10-2007, 17:45
(link (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/10/10/asia/AS-GEN-New-Zealand-Death-Penalty.php))

The chances of this getting anywhere are virtually nil, but congratulations to those countries for raising the issue and trying.

They aren't going to get anywhere. And thank God they won't.
Lame Bums
10-10-2007, 17:47
Argh, damned Poland! Can't we just let the Germans invade again? It'd be for the best.

You know, Wartheland, Danzig, Ostpreussen, Pomerania, and Stettin are rightful German territories? There's your casus belli. :rolleyes:

Oh while you're at it get Elsass and Lothringen back...
Pezalia
10-10-2007, 17:56
Nah, it's easy to spin it for the bogan crowd.

"Imagine is Schapelle had have got the death sentence!"

The crowd would break out in applause and some "dey took our jorbs!" chants.

What does this have to do with the NZ? :confused:

Schapelle is an Aussie, not a Kiwi.
Ariddia
11-10-2007, 01:04
We really have to retain the death penalty for some things.

Eh... no. We abolished it 26 years ago over here.
Trollgaard
11-10-2007, 01:05
It'll get a majority in the General Assembly. It won't go down well with the US in the UNSC. It'll be vetoed.

there's no way in hell it will be abolished in the US. The UN can go shove its resolutions up its ass.
UpwardThrust
11-10-2007, 01:08
We really have to retain the death penalty for some things.

Really? HAVE? there seems to be no data that supports a NEED for the death penalty
UpwardThrust
11-10-2007, 01:12
there's no way in hell it will be abolished in the US. The UN can go shove its resolutions up its ass.

Effectively yes as they have 0 power for enforcement.

What I find ironic is that many of the people who bitch at the UN not having any bite are those that would be dead set against them stepping in when we are in the wrong, like now.
Trollgaard
11-10-2007, 01:17
Effectively yes as they have 0 power for enforcement.

What I find ironic is that many of the people who bitch at the UN not having any bite are those that would be dead set against them stepping in when we are in the wrong, like now.

Well I'm glad the UN is a powerless joke. And I don't believe the death penalty is wrong under certain circumstances.
Ariddia
11-10-2007, 01:18
What I find ironic is that many of the people who bitch at the UN not having any bite are those that would be dead against them stepping in when we are in the wrong, like now.

Well, when have anti-UN ranters ever been consistant or logical?
Ferrous Oxide
11-10-2007, 01:19
Eh... no. We abolished it 26 years ago over here.

Yeah, but the French penal system is a joke.
Ariddia
11-10-2007, 01:28
Yeah, but the French penal system is a joke.

Oh? How so? Do entertain us with your insights.
The Atlantian islands
11-10-2007, 01:32
Oh snap, what's the penalty for thread theft?
Death!
The Black Forrest
11-10-2007, 02:29
The death penalty is always a conflict for me. I dread the thought of an innocent man dying.

Then I think of a recent event were an animal used his car to knock down a 12 year, grab her, punched her in the head several times and then tried to rape her.
CharlieCat
11-10-2007, 02:37
We really have to retain the death penalty for some things.

Really? Why?
[NS]I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS
11-10-2007, 02:39
I would be against reinstating the death penalty in Britain if it was proposed, but I'm not really bothered if other countries do it.
Indri
11-10-2007, 04:12
Nowbody cares what Australia Jr. thinks.

Now I do hate the idea of the government deciding who lives and who dies but here's something for all the anti-DP folks to mull over: how is a cop using deadly force any different from the death penalty? One requires evidence confirming guilt, provides sufficient time for appeal, and is supposed to be reserved for only for the worst offenders and those that still pose a threat to society while the other is often an unwarranted and excessive act perpetrated by aggressive hotheads charged with protecting and serving the community but who often cause more disruptions than they deal with.

Can wombats do anything but whine? So far that's the only sound I've heard them make.
Liminus
11-10-2007, 04:49
Nowbody cares what Australia Jr. thinks.

Now I do hate the idea of the government deciding who lives and who dies but here's something for all the anti-DP folks to mull over: how is a cop using deadly force any different from the death penalty? One requires evidence confirming guilt, provides sufficient time for appeal, and is supposed to be reserved for only for the worst offenders and those that still pose a threat to society while the other is often an unwarranted and excessive act perpetrated by aggressive hotheads charged with protecting and serving the community but who often cause more disruptions than they deal with.

Can wombats do anything but whine? So far that's the only sound I've heard them make.

A cop is generally only supposed to use deadly force in self-defense. And arrested criminals are not still a threat to society...with the whole being arrested thing.
Risottia
11-10-2007, 13:28
how is a cop using deadly force any different from the death penalty?

Simple.

A policeman (or, generally, one man) kills another man to prevent him from killing other people, or in self-defence: this is a justified killing.

One kills another man who wasn't threatening his or someone else's life (maybe, because he was already in a safe jail, or had no weapons etc): this is murder.

The State should not murder, because the State has laws against murder.
Linus and Lucy
11-10-2007, 14:04
Good for New Zealand


Bad for New Zealand.

The death penalty is not barbaric; rather, its absence is.
Linus and Lucy
11-10-2007, 14:06
Simple.

A policeman (or, generally, one man) kills another man to prevent him from killing other people, or in self-defence: this is a justified killing.

One kills another man who wasn't threatening his or someone else's life (maybe, because he was already in a safe jail, or had no weapons etc): this is murder.

The State should not murder, because the State has laws against murder.

It's not murder if the thing being killed has renounced its right to life--which is the case with murderers, rapists, kidnappers, thieves, burglars, trespassers, and vandals.
Ifreann
11-10-2007, 14:14
Death!
*flees to New Zealand*
Nowbody cares what Australia Jr. thinks.
:rolleyes:

[snip]
Other people got this already
Can wombats do anything but whine? So far that's the only sound I've heard them make.
:rolleyes: Way to add to the discussion.
The State should not murder, because the State has laws against murder.
*nitpicks*
Murder is illegal killing. if the death penalty is legal, it cannot be murder.
It's not murder if the thing being killed has renounced its right to life--which is the case with murderers, rapists, kidnappers, thieves, burglars, trespassers, and vandals.
The exact same list you rolled out last time there was a death penalty thread. Do you have a big list of things you post and just copy and paste, with a little editing so it fits in the thread?
Ariddia
11-10-2007, 19:42
The death penalty is not barbaric; rather, its absence is.

Utterly absurd.

We can all toss out meaningless snippets like that. A melon is not a fruit; rather, a potato is!
Prachanda
11-10-2007, 19:49
Meh, one world legal system would be bound to fail. Some countries can abolish the death penalty, but they shouldn't interfere in other countries legal systems.

Each legal system must be a representation of the culture and will be different in different regions, punishments will be different, crimes will be different. The death-penalty is a country-by-country issue, not a world one.
Fassitude
11-10-2007, 20:15
at the very least it will make an interesting U.N meeting

though I do have to say good on Brazil there turning into some sort of goodies

edit: do I see a connection? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7037038.stm)

Ah, Poland. The Kansas, Alabama and Georgia of Europe.
Fassitude
11-10-2007, 20:16
A melon is not a fruit; rather, a potato is!

Them's fightin' words.