NationStates Jolt Archive

Are there any Muslims in Nationstates? im talking actual muslim people, i would love to talk to them.(no im not going to rant on you)

Are there any Muslims in Nationstates? im talking actual muslim people, i would love to talk to them.(no im not going to rant on you)Soviestan is Muslim.

Get him here or something, i dont care which, i need a Muslim.

I know quite a bit about Islam, what do you need?

Are you a Muslim?

There were a few. However, following a secret imperi ... eeehm... presidential order every muslim with a political opinion is now considered to be a terrorist and put into a re-education centre.

More seriously - what is your question ;) And no, I am not a muslim.

Are you a Muslim?

I was at one time..for like..a week.

I am in contact with Islam pretty much daily.

well, i needed a muslim.

"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself every girl who has never slept with a man." (Numbers 31:17-18)


I think I will go out and do this because the Bible is the word of God.

well, i needed a muslim.

Ask the question and someone will be able to answer it, I am sure.

"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself every girl who has never slept with a man." (Numbers 31:17-18)


I think I will go out and do this because the Bible is the word of God.

Think you're looking for this thread, buddy:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=539831

"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself every girl who has never slept with a man." (Numbers 31:17-18)


I think I will go out and do this because the Bible is the word of God.

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

as for the verse, read the context, and realize that this is not a command from God to humans now, but it is a history of the Hebraic people.

i need a Muslim.

That's something you don't hear often

That's something you don't hear often

"I'll get two cheeseburgers... a quarter-pounder, two medium-sized chips... a small chocolate thickshake... two large cokes aaaaand a Muslim, thanks."

Don't confuse muslim with muslin. I did that once. Quite embarrassing. :p

"I'll get two cheeseburgers... a quarter-pounder, two medium-sized chips... a small chocolate thickshake... two large cokes aaaaand a Muslim, thanks."

Im am muslim and arab theres a double whopper for you

Muslims don't exist. They're an urban legend, like kangaroos.

Muslims don't exist. They're an urban legend, like kangaroos.

im going to hunt you down and beat you to death with my army of kangaroo tanks and ninja unicorns

im going to hunt you down and beat you to death with my army of kangaroo tanks and ninja unicorns

Typical violence you'd expect from a Muslim...

"Is he joking?"

im going to hunt you down and beat you to death with my army of kangaroo tanks and ninja unicorns

Pffft, I'm not afraid of you, you don't exist.

I wonder if that Kangaroo tank has cannon stabilization problems when it's hopping.....

Typical violence you'd expect from a Muslim...

"Is he joking?"

duh

Pffft, I'm not afraid of you, you don't exist.

keep telling your self that

keep telling your self that

Ok.
He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist.

[QUOTE=Pacificville;13122519]Typical violence you'd expect from a Muslim...

QUOTE]
you support bush dont you?

Ok.
He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist. He doesn't exist.

keep telling your self THAT

keep telling your self THAT

I am telling myself. I can't help it if other people hear/read it too.

I am telling myself. I can't help it if other people hear/read it too.

taking your fingers off the keyboard and plugging your ears might help...:)

taking your fingers off the keyboard and plugging your ears might help...:)

no kidding pleased to meet you

I am telling myself. I can't help it if other people hear/read it too.

i will pray for you
*shakes head seriously and walked away wondering about americans

Muslims don't exist. They're an urban legend, like kangaroos.

I'm a kangaroo? awesome.

i thought no one was going to show, i want to talk to you for a bit.

yuo are a Muslim so i hear? are you also Arab?

Alright, first question, (sorry if i spell them wrong) are you Sunni or Shiiet?

i thought no one was going to show, i want to talk to you for a bit.

ok, what do you need?

yuo are a Muslim so i hear? are you also Arab?

only partly.

Alright, first question, (sorry if i spell them wrong) are you Sunni or Shiiet?

Sunni.

which brings me to this

Why do you and the other's fight eachother? you kill eachother over the same religion?, wouldnt it be better if say you united, set aside those little differences.

this isnt really a Muslim-specific question... many religions have divisions within them that cause the different factions to oppose each other.. take Protestants and Catholics in Ireland, for example.

which brings me to this

Why do you and the other's fight eachother? you kill eachother over the same religion?, wouldnt it be better if say you united, set aside those little differences.

*shakes head* That's like asking a Christian why the Catholics and Protestants fought the Thirty-Years War.

i see(im Athiest so im not taking any religions side), What is your position on Iraq? I was for the Iraq war, except for staying there after we took Saddam out.

which brings me to this

Why do you and the other's fight eachother? you kill eachother over the same religion?, wouldnt it be better if say you united, set aside those little differences.
I don't fight or kill anyone. However conflict between Sunni and Shi'ia around the world has much more to do with political reasons than it does religious.

i see(im Athiest so im not taking any religions side), What is your position on Iraq? I was for the Iraq war, except for staying there after we took Saddam out.

Iraq was stupid. Its led to the deaths of thousands for no viable reason.

Its like asking why protestants and catholics killed each other. It makes no sense, but stupid people use religion for political gains. It can be said with Islam, as well as any other religion.

Im only talking about Islam in this thread, i dont give a crap about the others.

which brings me to this

Why do you and the other's fight eachother? you kill eachother over the same religion?, wouldnt it be better if say you united, set aside those little differences.

Its like asking why protestants and catholics killed each other. It makes no sense, but stupid people use religion for political gains. It can be said with Islam, as well as any other religion.

Iraq was stupid. Its led to the deaths of thousands for no viable reason.

You do have a point, i believe that your right in the fact that thousands died for almost nothing. I belive that bombing Iraq would have been better than occupation.

Well, I am just saying, your question is rather stupid.

you shouldnt be in this thread.

Im only talking about Islam in this thread, i dont give a crap about the others.

Well, I am just saying, your question is rather stupid.

you shouldnt be in this thread.

:rolleyes:

You do have a point, i believe that your right in the fact that thousands died for almost nothing. I belive that bombing Iraq would have been better than occupation.

Killing is immoral no matter if its through occupation, or bombing. Innocent people still die. Thats the problem.

You do have a point, i believe that your right in the fact that thousands died for almost nothing. I belive that bombing Iraq would have been better than occupation.

I think leaving Iraq alone would have been better than bombing or occupation.

I think leaving Iraq alone would have been better than bombing or occupation.

See? Sovie agrees with me. Thats cuz he's my brother from another mother. :)

of course War should be avoided.

I am a Shi'a Muslim.

I think the invasion of Iraq was foolish from the stand-point of military and political gain. Saddam actually represented a force that could neutralize the influence of Iran in the region, and now that he is gone, there is no real force with any legitimacy that can.

Saddam's legitimacy was based on the fact that he had taken a strong Pro-Palestinean stance ever since the 1980s and had called for the overthrow of the Saudi Monarchy and the liberation of the Holy Lands, a call that resonates amongst most Muslims, Sunni or Shi'a. Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and the other Pro-US dictatorships have no legitimacy in the eyes of the people, they are seen as lackeys and traitors. The Saudi's are of the most opportunistic kind, their Wahabbi Imams said that Jihad was ok when Afghanistan was invaded by the Soviets; but when Afghanistan was invaded by the Americans, there was no call for the defence of Afghanistan, because Saudi Arabia is the US' buddy in the region, using their Wahabbi brand of Islam to tell people to stay put. I have heard Wahabbi Imams talk about how there can be no liberation of Muslims in the Middle East until all the Shi'a are dead. Egypt lost all credibility under Sadat and Jordan lost it in 1993.

The only forces in the Middle East that have real legitimacy in the eyes of the streets are Iran and Syria. The US invaded Iraq not because they hated Saddam (they put him in power in the first place, after all) and not because they wanted to spread Democracy (or else they would accept free and fair elections like Iran in 1953, Chile in 1970 or Palestine in 2006); they invaded Iraq for economic reasons, but they ended up falling into another Vietnam.

The US needs to stay out of Africa, the Middle East, Asia and Latin America, they can go bug their friends in Western Europe. Meanwhile, I'm sure the rest of the world will be better off building up real politico-economic systems without being told what to do by Washington, Moscow or other foreign powers.

If anyone wishes to speak to me more privately, I am available at:
AIM- latino heat11554
MSN- justicepeace08@hotmail.com

Sovie- sense there are no real questions being asked here, I have one:

In Islam there is the belief of the scales. Basically on judgement day all your good and evil deeds will be weighed out to see if you reach Jannah or not. Do you feel comfortable not knowing if you are going to reach paradise, but rather, leaving it up in the air?

Also, Why should one be punished for not preforming salaat? Isn't the punishment and reward in not doing/doing the deed? Doesn't that seem more logical? I have heard of people that have had to make up like 30 years of salaat, for fear of hell fire. That doesn't seem too...hmm...right.

Another one: How do you feel about the prophet consummating a marriage with a nine year old child? Doesn't that seem the least bit immoral for a holy prophet of Allah (swt) to do?

Finally, this one regards the Injeel, or Prophet Esa's Gospel. You all claim it was changed, and that Jesus is not God, but just a prophet. I ask you this: When was it changed? Why was it changed? By whom? Where at?

I ask you all of this because in even the earliest christian writtings you see reference to Jesus as being God, or given title son of God. If he could not get his message of oneness across to the people, then does that mean he was not an effective prophet?

Also, why would God allow the Injeel to be changed, but not the Quran? Wouldn't it be easier just to have kept it the same? or does God now have that power?

(sorry questions keep coming up)

Regarding Paul, you guys say that he changed Christ's message to appease the pagans. Tell me, why would a man who was a former persecutor of the Christians, who called them blasphemers and such, all of a sudden turn around to become one? There is no logic in it, unless the message he received was authentic. I mean, at the time Christianity was small, and being killed by romans and jews. There was no political advantage to it. The same can be asked of the rest of Christ's followers. They were all zealous Jews, that all of sudden just turned into these people that worshiped this man that walked around. It seems suspicious that all of this would happen without good reason.

My dad is Muslim. Sunni to be exact. From the pure lands of Pakistan!

I am a Muslim, and I am a Shia, but I am a Muslim first.

To answer some earlier questions...

While there are some important differences between Sunnis and Shias, there really isn't any reason for the two sides to fight, but the world is insane, so what can I say?

In many countries, Shias are oppressed and viewed as heretic/bad and so this fosters bad relations. With the fall of Saddam, the Shias who were formerly oppressed, were now in power because they were the majority. I believe that some may have wanted payback for their former oppression, and started conflicts. On the other side, there would also be Sunnis who were not ready to lose power and control over the country, and so they reacted violently. At first however, things weren't too bad. But violence leads to more violence, and the cycle continues and worsens. Eventually many important Shia buildings/shrines were damaged, and this made everything even worse.

However, I think you were asking if there was a religious reason for the fight. To answer that, I would say there is none. The differences between Sunnis and Shias are simply not worth fighting over, and it is because of a history of oppression and conflict, of "us versus them" that things are the way they are today. I personally hold nothing against Sunnis as a group, however there are certainly Sunnis, and Shias whose actions I condemn, and it is because of them and their leaders, that Sunnis and Shias are sometimes in conflict today.

So essentially, it's a political struggle, not really a religious one.

Sovie- sense there are no real questions being asked here, I have one:

In Islam there is the belief of the scales. Basically on judgement day all your good and evil deeds will be weighed out to see if you reach Jannah or not. Do you feel comfortable not knowing if you are going to reach paradise, but rather, leaving it up in the air?

Also, Why should one be punished for not preforming salaat? Isn't the punishment and reward in not doing/doing the deed? Doesn't that seem more logical? I have heard of people that have had to make up like 30 years of salaat, for fear of hell fire. That doesn't seem too...hmm...right.

Another one: How do you feel about the prophet consummating a marriage with a nine year old child? Doesn't that seem the least bit immoral for a holy prophet of Allah (swt) to do?

Finally, this one regards the Injeel, or Prophet Esa's Gospel. You all claim it was changed, and that Jesus is not God, but just a prophet. I ask you this: When was it changed? Why was it changed? By whom? Where at?

I ask you all of this because in even the earliest christian writtings you see reference to Jesus as being God, or given title son of God. If he could not get his message of oneness across to the people, then does that mean he was not an effective prophet?

Also, why would God allow the Injeel to be changed, but not the Quran? Wouldn't it be easier just to have kept it the same? or does God now have that power?

(sorry questions keep coming up)

Regarding Paul, you guys say that he changed Christ's message to appease the pagans. Tell me, why would a man who was a former persecutor of the Christians, who called them blasphemers and such, all of a sudden turn around to become one? There is no logic in it, unless the message he received was authentic. I mean, at the time Christianity was small, and being killed by romans and jews. There was no political advantage to it. The same can be asked of the rest of Christ's followers. They were all zealous Jews, that all of sudden just turned into these people that worshiped this man that walked around. It seems suspicious that all of this would happen without good reason.

a) I am comfortable, I do my best to do good and to be faithful, and that is enough.

b) If I miss a prayer, I generally do not make it up (after that day). I believe that if you truly believe in God, and if you repent and admit/regret your misdeeds, than that is enough. It is not necessary to make up for thirty years of missed prayer.

c) We don't know for sure that she was nine. We do know that she was a virgin, so there was certainly no misconduct. And I believe there were a lot of political reasons for it.

d) You do realize that the stories/parts of the Bible were selected by a council? They rejected certain parts that are in the Quran, and so we say that it was changed. As well, you do not even know the Bible in it's truest form. You have read the translation of a translation of a translation (of a translation, maybe), and things get lost on the way.

e) It is not the prophet's fault, but the people that twist/change his words.

f) Paul's words are quite a bit different from many other parts of the Bible, no? So yes, he changed Christ's message. As for his reasons for converting, Christianity (at the beginning) was possibly the closest religion to Islam, so wouldn't it naturally be the most attractive?

Regarding Paul, you guys say that he changed Christ's message to appease the pagans. Tell me, why would a man who was a former persecutor of the Christians, who called them blasphemers and such, all of a sudden turn around to become one? There is no logic in it, unless the message he received was authentic. I mean, at the time Christianity was small, and being killed by romans and jews. There was no political advantage to it. The same can be asked of the rest of Christ's followers. They were all zealous Jews, that all of sudden just turned into these people that worshiped this man that walked around. It seems suspicious that all of this would happen without good reason.

1. We have no independent accounts of Paul's pre-conversion activities. It's not exactly uncommon for evangelists/apologists to invent elaborate conversion stories on a whim: modern examples who have been shown to have fudged their testimonials include Jonathan Wells, Francis Collins and Kirk Cameron. Several claims in the Acts account are rather dubious and add weight to the notion that it might be heavily embellished.

2. Some psychologists have suggested that Paul was a classic example of Temporal Lobe Epilepsy.

3. Sometimes people believe weird stuff for silly reasons!

I guess I will take this from a Shi'a perspective.

I believe that most bad deeds are forgiven,

"Say: O my slaves who have transgressed against themselves! Despair not for the mercy of Allah, verily Allah forgives all sins. truly he is oft forgiving, most merciful." Surat az-Zumar (39:53)

If you repent, you shall be forgiven. Regardless, it is stated that almost everyone will enter paradise, but the time it takes to get there is the main difference between people.


With Salat, specific practices and rituals themselves are meaningless unless one truly understands what they are doing. It is the substance that means things, not the form. If one does good deeds, they will be rewarded. It is stated that Prayer helps humble onesself constantly, "at the two ends of each day and at the beginning of the night", as well, it serves as a chance to ask for forgiveness, and so many sins are atoned for by regular prayer each day. I hope that answers it.


The age of Aishah is actually not stated, what is referred to is that she was young, what this means is unknown. The Hadith that state that she was Nine are unreliable, as they come from unreliable figures, many of whom are known fabricators of Hadith.


Early Christian writings often refer to him only as the Messiah or as the Son of God, or as the Son of Man. The Messiah and Son of Man are accepted titles. Son of God is metaphorical, in the sense that he served Allah and did his bidding, in that sense we are all Sons of God. I ask you to refer to the Prophet Daud (pbuh) who in the Hebrew texts is also referred to as the Son of God. Keep in mind, the original Gospels do not exist today, you cannot find the original text that were written down as he spoke by his aides, nor the actual writings of the Prophet Isa (pbuh). The first appearance of a real Gospel was in the 200s, by Marcion of Sinope, who used the Gospel of Luke, however, it should be noted that his Gospel of Luke is not the one accepted today and that Marcion himself believed in 2 Gods, one of the Old Testament and one of the New Testament. The New Testament itself was put together in the 300s. Why does it appear some 300 years after Isa (pbuh) spoke? Surely, at some point Peter or another apostle wrote down exactly what he said, or the Prophet himself wrote down his teachings. Keep in mind also, it was the Romans who chose the books of the bible, the very same Empire that opposed him earlier.


Keep in mind, there are 124,000 Prophets in the history of Islam. From the Taurat of Musa (pbuh) to the Dabur of Daud (pbuh) to the Injil of Isa (pbuh) all of these have been edited. Even though the Qur'an has not been edited, as the final revelation to mankind, it is preserved by Allah, that does not keep people from going astray. The history of mankind of full of tests and cycles, and you can see a constant where Allah reveals the message and man corrupts it and goes astray.


I don't see Paul as wrong actually. I think he had a very good understanding of the esoteric nature of the teachings of Isa (pbuh), and used a natural means of calling people to a faith, by likening much in it to what people are already used to and accustomed to. In this case, Paul was merely using some similarities and likening Isa (pbuh) to other figures. Presumably, Paul probably thought that in-time, they would be able to be transitioned into Islam; and didn't think that the Pagan influences would stay around as long as they did. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the original Gospels were lost, if they had still been around, then Paul would probably have been correct.

I do note that Islam made many comparisons with itself and Hinduism in the early years of the Fatimid Dawah in India; Pir Sadr ad-Din used a very Pauline approach in his Dawah and as a result, had much success in converting the Khojas in India. You will notice some heavy differences between the Satpanth Islam in some parts of Khoja India and even Islam in Pakistan. However, the general message is the same, so I see little problem. Similarly, I see little problem with Paul's message, as the basic message of the teachings of Isa (pbuh), those of tolerance, brotherhood and peace, were retained.

I will also note that I myself have no problems with Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Atenists, Hindus, Buddhists, Intists, Sabeans or really any other belief system before the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) nor do I have any problem with Sunnis, other Shi'a or even Kharijites. I do have a problem with people who use religion to exploit other people and promoting intolerance of beliefs and ignorance; and these things can be found in some segments of all religions.

I will conclude with this from the Holy Qur'an:
"Those who believe and those who follow the Jewish (texts), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work in righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." Surat al-Baqara (2:62)

The age of Aishah is actually not stated, what is referred to is that she was young, what this means is unknown. The Hadith that state that she was Nine are unreliable, as they come from unreliable figures, many of whom are known fabricators of Hadith.

A majority of Muslims however does accept those Hadiths as valid - though in general the ages stated are 9 for the marriage, 12 for consummation; or in any case after she started menstruating.

Assume for the moment it is true that the prophet, example for all muslims for all time, did in fact interrupt his 12 year old wife while she was playing with dolls to have sex with her. Him being about 50 at the time. She, to emphasise, young but physically capable to get pregnant.

Would you believe that to be an example to be followed or not ? If not, would you consider it reasonable to question his other deeds as well ?

You have solved this dilemma by not believing it to be true. What do you think of the muslims that do believe it but not care ? Or even base their age of consent laws on this ?

A majority of Muslims however does accept those Hadiths as valid - though in general the ages stated are 9 for the marriage, 12 for consummation; or in any case after she started menstruating.

Assume for the moment it is true that the prophet, example for all muslims for all time, did in fact interrupt his 12 year old wife while she was playing with dolls to have sex with her. Him being about 50 at the time. She, to emphasise, young but physically capable to get pregnant.

Would you believe that to be an example to be followed or not ? If not, would you consider it reasonable to question his other deeds as well ?

You have solved this dilemma by not believing it to be true. What do you think of the muslims that do believe it but not care ? Or even base their age of consent laws on this ?

I would not consider it to be an example to be followed, assuming this were true, which of course, I believe it isn't. Prophets are not free from making sins, however, their message is guided and in the case of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) his sins were forgiven by Allah.

I think that the case of Hadith fabrication is one of the most dire issues facing the Muslim community these days, aside from rigidity and ignorance of application. I personally give little to Hadith, after all, the Hadith are not divine guidance, they are not a new message. If Hadith was truly as important as we make it out to be, wouldn't it be in the Holy Qur'an? But no, the Qur'an is whole and complete.

It should also be noted that many Hadith contradict the Holy Qur'an, I would say this is not because the Prophet (pbuh) contradicted himself, but because those around him sometimes had worldly things to gain. Stoning was never mentioned in the Holy Qur'an, yet in Sahih Bukhari, Umar mentions it being confirmed in the Qur'an. The execution of apostates is not called for in the Holy Qur'an, many times it is mentioned that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) just stood and let people enter and leave the faith as they chose, several entering and leaving several times, as Allah said in the Qur'an: "There is no compulsion in religion". Many Hadith however, especially from the times under the Umayyads justified it, they executed people for apostasy, using the accusations of apostasy as a weapon to execute and seize property. The Umayyads even cursed Imam Ali (ra) and the Ahlul Bayt in their prayers and murdered Imam Husayn (ra)!

I think the Holy Qur'an is the highest source of knowledge, as such, if an answer can be found to a situation in the Holy Qur'an, it should be accepted. However, if one cannot be found, you can rely on the practices of the Ahlul Bayt. If none of the Imams have spoken the answer, then it comes down to individual reasoning based on logic.

A majority of Muslims however does accept those Hadiths as valid - though in general the ages stated are 9 for the marriage, 12 for consummation; or in any case after she started menstruating.

Assume for the moment it is true that the prophet, example for all muslims for all time, did in fact interrupt his 12 year old wife while she was playing with dolls to have sex with her. Him being about 50 at the time. She, to emphasise, young but physically capable to get pregnant.

Would you believe that to be an example to be followed or not ? If not, would you consider it reasonable to question his other deeds as well ?

You have solved this dilemma by not believing it to be true. What do you think of the muslims that do believe it but not care ? Or even base their age of consent laws on this ?

But even those hadiths which do say here age was 12 say that she was a virgin, so where is the moral dilemma? As for those that base consent laws on this, I would disagree with them because they generally are seeking to have sex with young girls, which is not what Muhammed did.

I would not consider it to be an example to be followed, assuming this were true, which of course, I believe it isn't. Prophets are not free from making sins, however, their message is guided and in the case of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) his sins were forgiven by Allah.

I think that the case of Hadith fabrication is one of the most dire issues facing the Muslim community these days, aside from rigidity and ignorance of application. I personally give little to Hadith, after all, the Hadith are not divine guidance, they are not a new message. If Hadith was truly as important as we make it out to be, wouldn't it be in the Holy Qur'an? But no, the Qur'an is whole and complete.

It should also be noted that many Hadith contradict the Holy Qur'an, I would say this is not because the Prophet (pbuh) contradicted himself, but because those around him sometimes had worldly things to gain. Stoning was never mentioned in the Holy Qur'an, yet in Sahih Bukhari, Umar mentions it being confirmed in the Qur'an. The execution of apostates is not called for in the Holy Qur'an, many times it is mentioned that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) just stood and let people enter and leave the faith as they chose, several entering and leaving several times, as Allah said in the Qur'an: "There is no compulsion in religion". Many Hadith however, especially from the times under the Umayyads they executed people for apostasy, using the accusations of apostasy as a weapon to execute and seize property. The Umayyads even cursed Imam Ali (ra) and the Ahlul Bayt in their prayers and murdered Imam Husayn (ra)! I think the Holy Qur'an is the highest source of knowledge, as such, if an answer can be found to a situation in the Holy Qur'an, it should be accepted. However, if one cannot be found, you can rely on the practices of the Ahlul Bayt. If none of the Imams have spoken the answer, then it comes down to individual reasoning based on logic.

I agree.

... im not taking any religions side...your question is portraying islam as violent.. like if it was the only religion that has been used for war (or has been used as an excuse for war if thats your POW)
.
are you also Arab? I belive that bombing Iraq would have been better than occupation.What country are you from? and... are you a Semite? Persian? Caucasian?

Actually, this thread presents me an opportunity to clarify something I've always wondered about Islam. Are the Hadith, in general, accepted as canonical (I realize this may vary from sect to sect) or is it up to each individual whether or not he accepts the Hadith as canon? I realize there are rating for the validity of the hadith, but does that actually entail one to accept them as fact?

Sorry if this has already been answered, there's quite a bit of text to wade through in thread.

Alright, first question, (sorry if i spell them wrong) are you Sunni or Shiiet?
im neither i dont belive in the divide though i have fmily that are either

Yes, please let me know. I do take pleasure in... getting acquainted with heathens, especially ones so vile as Islamists.

See? Sovie agrees with me. Thats cuz he's my brother from another mother. :)

Related through the father?

(Llama Llama) *Ducks*

Yes, please let me know. I do take pleasure in... getting acquainted with heathens, especially ones so vile as Islamists.

Uh oh.

Yes, please let me know. I do take pleasure in... getting acquainted with heathens, especially ones so vile as Islamists.

i shall pray foir your soul and for your families mental health

Yes, please let me know. I do take pleasure in... getting acquainted with heathens, especially ones so vile as Islamists.

Hehe you're funny

Yes, please let me know. I do take pleasure in... getting acquainted with heathens, especially ones so vile as Islamists.

I am much viler. Wanna get together ?

i will pray for you
*shakes head seriously and walked away wondering about americans
I'm not American.......
I'm a kangaroo? awesome.
Yup.
Yes, please let me know. I do take pleasure in... getting acquainted with heathens, especially ones so vile as Islamists.

The word is 'Muslims'. Can you say 'Muslims'?
*pause for you to say 'Muslims'*
I knew you could.

Actually, this thread presents me an opportunity to clarify something I've always wondered about Islam. Are the Hadith, in general, accepted as canonical (I realize this may vary from sect to sect) or is it up to each individual whether or not he accepts the Hadith as canon? I realize there are rating for the validity of the hadith, but does that actually entail one to accept them as fact?

Sorry if this has already been answered, there's quite a bit of text to wade through in thread.

Well there are a lot of contradictions in the Hadith. So basically, if it disagrees with something in the Quran, then I totally disregard it. The Hadith have been written over a period of time and they all show the writers' bias, causing some of them to contradict others. As for it being canon, certain groups may support their practices off of a Hadith, but there isn't that much central authority anymore so while in some countries people may follow them, in others they don't. In my opinion, if one cannot get support for a practice from logic/science, or from the Quran, then that is where they go to the Hadith, so it's kind of like "Well I can't do this because the Quran says this, but here in this Hadith it's ok, so lets do it!"

Sorry if this makes no sense, I'm still half asleep...

Hey since we're on the subject of islam and such could anyone, preferably an actual believer in islam, give me a brief summary and beliefs of islam so I can better understand it. I tried reading the koran once and I could not understand a word of it. And if I actually sought out a mosque or islamic teacher, my parents would flip out.
Thanks

Hey since we're on the subject of islam and such could anyone, preferably an actual believer in islam, give me a brief summary and beliefs of islam so I can better understand it. I tried reading the koran once and I could not understand a word of it. And if I actually sought out a mosque or islamic teacher, my parents would flip out.
Thanks

Try teh wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam)

Are there any Muslims in Nationstates? im talking actual muslim people, i would love to talk to them.(no im not going to rant on you)

[Allah is the only god and Mohammed is his prophet]Sure.[/Allah is the only god and Mohammed is his prophet]

Hey since we're on the subject of islam and such could anyone, preferably an actual believer in islam, give me a brief summary and beliefs of islam so I can better understand it. I tried reading the koran once and I could not understand a word of it. And if I actually sought out a mosque or islamic teacher, my parents would flip out.
Thanks Why would you possibly want a run down of a religion from an actual adherent of said religion? Objectivity is the key to reliability.

Well, I do not accept most Hadiths at all, If they contradict the Holy Qur'an, I dismiss them, and many of them do. Also, many have no real relevance to modern times, the Wahabbi's, they say that because the Prophet (pbuh) used to eat with his hands, we are wrong for eating with forks. However, these same Wahabbi Imams live in nice big houses and drive fancy cars, neither of which the Prophet (pbuh) had.

I do find however, that the Hadiths from the Maliki school as well as the Ibadhi branch of the Kharijites are actually more reliable than those found in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.


Islam believes, in summary, that Allah or God, is the only Deity, and that we should worship Allah and be respectful and brotherly to each other ("A man is either your brother in Islam or your brother in humanity"), but that man keeps rejecting the message or distorting it until it no longer represents the words of Allah. Moses, Noah, Abraham and most of the Jewish Prophets are Prophets of Islam as well (we believe they preached Monotheism and Submission to Allah, making them Muslims) and so are John and Jesus. We believe that Muhammad (pbuh) was the Prophet sent the Holy Qur'an, which is the last revelation by Allah to mankind and unlike the Torah, Psalms and Gospels, is still entirely intact and unedited. We follow the Holy Qur'an and the Five Pillars of Islam, which include Salat (5 Prayers a day), making Hajj (journeying to Makkah), Zakat (giving alms to the poor), Sawm (Fasting, specifically, during the month of Ramadan, but many Shia also fast during the 10 days of Ashura), and Shahadah (the testament of faith). All that is required to become a Muslim is to say the Shahadah with sincerity in ones heart: "La ilaha ill Allaha, Muhammadur rasul Allah" (There is no God but Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah). Some add pillars and have 6 or 7, but most have 5.

That is a good summary, I think.