NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3X2d7cjahc

I think it's quite interesting to hear really how amazingly close Yiddish is with German. I mean the way the grammar works is basically the same. In some ways, it sounds alot more Swiss than standard German. Like when he say's "Mir" instead of "Wir"....well that's what the Swiss say it. Or how he pronounces words like geschichte (history) with a hash "ch", like how you would say it in Swiss-German but not in German.

Also, for those that can read Hebrew (like me), it's really fascinating how the words are almost totally German but the script is Hebrew and so I'm reading what he is saying in Hebrew script...it blows my mind.

For those of you who don't know understand German/Hebrew/Yiddisch, I think this should still be quite interesting just to hear this rare language actually spoken in a modern way, not just in old grandparents songs or something.

Also quite interesting:
Written evidence
The oldest surviving literary document in Yiddish is a blessing in a Hebrew prayer book from 1272 (described extensively in Frakes 2004 and Baumgarten/Frakes 2005):

Yiddish: גוּט טַק אִים בְּטַגְֿא שְ וַיר דִּיש מַחֲזֹור אִין בֵּיתֿ הַכְּנֶסֶתֿ טְרַגְֿא
Transliterated: gut tak im betage se vaer dis makhazor in beis hakneses terage
Translated: may a good day come to him who carries this prayer book into the synagogue

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiddish

Discuss.

I'd really like to hear the opinions from everyone, but even more so German speakers, Yiddish speakers, Hebrew speakers or just Jews in general.....

Well, do we have any language nerds who have an interest in this?

Oy vey!

(That's Yiddish, right?)

Well, do we have any language nerds who have an interest in this?

Me! But I know very little about it, so really can't add anything...sorry...though my dad used to talk about the evolution of Yiddish a lot. I have a shitty memory at the moment.

Oy vey!

(That's Yiddish, right?)
Yeah. It's interesting..the whole "oy" sound that sounds oh so Jewish actually comes from a seperation between standard German and Yiddish where German uses "au" sounds like "house", Yiddisch changed this "au" sound to a "oy" sound....so like the German word to buy, "kaufen" in Yiddisch is "koyfn".
Me! But I know very little about it, so really can't add anything...sorry...though my dad used to talk about the evolution of Yiddish a lot. I have a shitty memory at the moment.
That's quite alright! Why don't you just start with listening to the clip of the reporter in Yiddish and just state what you think it sounds like...it's honestly just interesting to me to hear it spoken and hear what people think it sounds like.

Wow, sounds a lot less Hebrewy than I would have expected. My grandparents spoke Yiddish and used to talk to each other in it all the time, but unfortunately it wasn't a language they passed on to their children or grandchildren, so I don't know much about it. But I can read Hebrew and even understand a little bit (this is thanks to studying Arabic at university right now and constantly having flashbacks to studying Hebrew when I was much younger...seriously, it's really odd because it's almost like a drug flashback but it's a language flashback...I hear a word and wham, I remember learning its Hebrew counterpart way back when)....that, however, did not help me at all with the Yiddish in that clip, except for stuff that I'm pretty sure was actually just Hebrew or Arabic names.

It's too bad Yiddish is dying out really quickly, though. Really wish my grandparents had passed that down to their kids and on to my generation. The ability to have a private conversation in an open place, alone, would have been worth it. =p

That's quite alright! Why don't you just start with listening to the clip of the reporter in Yiddish and just state what you think it sounds like...it's honestly just interesting to me to hear it spoken and hear what people think it sounds like.
Oh I did, but I honestly have no ear for germanic languages. They just all sound German to me :P

Wow, sounds a lot less Hebrewy than I would have expected
Yes, actually I thought the same. It's almost basically German. To be honest I'd never heard Yiddish modern like this before...only just like old songs or saying that my grandparents or someone would say, you know.
My grandparents spoke Yiddish and used to talk to each other in it all the time, but unfortunately it wasn't a language they passed on to their children or grandchildren, so I don't know much about it. But I can read Hebrew and even understand a little bit (this is thanks to studying Arabic at university right now and constantly having flashbacks to studying Hebrew when I was much younger...seriously, it's really odd because it's almost like a drug flashback but it's a language flashback...I hear a word and wham, I remember learning its Hebrew counterpart way back when)....that, however, did not help me at all with the Yiddish in that clip, except for stuff that I'm pretty sure was actually just Hebrew or Arabic names.
Yeah, when my family came over to America, they could do Yiddisch and German...but English was adopted. I don't know anyone who isn't old who can speak Yiddish. It truley is about to die. As for the Hebrew...well you can sound out the Hebrew text in the beginning and then you will be speaking Yiddish!
It's too bad Yiddish is dying out really quickly, though. Really wish my grandparents had passed that down to their kids and on to my generation. The ability to have a private conversation in an open place, alone, would have been worth it. =p
Yes...like I said above, quite unfortunate. About the private convos in public...I already do this in German since I can't do it in spanish because I live in South Florida....:headbang:
Oh I did, but I honestly have no ear for germanic languages. They just all sound German to me :P
Fair enough.:p I'll admit I have no ear for your languages when I listend to you speak in them in that "Voice" thread.....and yes...I did just admit that I listend to you speaking in your different languages.:)

bump before I go to sleep.

Oh I did, but I honestly have no ear for germanic languages. They just all sound German to me :P

Like English? :p

Ladino is better.

Come to the UK and learn Yiddish.

http://www.cactuslanguage.com/en/book/course.php?course_id=739

http://www.ljcc.org.uk/about/faculty

http://www.mod-langs.ox.ac.uk/yiddish/

Actually I believe it is also spoken at some Jewish schools (could be wrong on that so don't quote me)

Yiddish sucks! (i am a jew, israeli)

The question is, does Yiddish sound like German, or does German sound like Yiddish?

The two languages have grown into their current forms concomitantly, in a kind of symbiosis.

Jewish people are said to have been living in the area we now know as Germany as early as the third century AD. They were probably attracted by the relative lack of persecution - the Goth people who lived there were in many cases practitioners of the Arian Heresy, which had no especial problem with Jews.

Jewish ghettoes are mentioned in many early texts on the Germanies. Notably (and in an ugly irony, given the history of the 20th century) there was never a strong push to drive the Jews out during the middle ages - unlike Spain, France, Italy and most of the rest of Europe at one time or another. Only the Ottoman Empire treated it's Jewish citizens better, overall.

As to me, I find Yiddish to be a remarkably beautiful language. I just wish I could speak a word of it!

It doesn't sound like German to me. I guess to those more familiar with German and Yiddish it can. What gets me are the 'hocker' spit effects. German is a very 'halt .. direct' language. IMO

Yeah, I'm always glad I grew up with Yiddish-speaking people as its given me a tremedous jump-start when it comes to learning German and other such languages. I must say I hate the sound of Yiddish though, German is much nicer.

On the subject, has anyone here ever heard or even heard of Afrikaans? Its a South African language incredibly similar to Dutch... when my cousins Dutch friend came over once we could communicate perfectly well even though we were (technically) speaking different languages

Yeah, I'm always glad I grew up with Yiddish-speaking people as its given me a tremedous jump-start when it comes to learning German and other such languages. I must say I hate the sound of Yiddish though, German is much nicer.

On the subject, has anyone here ever heard or even heard of Afrikaans? Its a South African language incredibly similar to Dutch... when my cousins Dutch friend came over once we could communicate perfectly well even though we were (technically) speaking different languages

I think that Yiddish sounds quite cool.....but German is smoother. However, I love the harshness of Yiddish.

And yeah, Afrikaans comes from the Dutch settlers of Zuid Afrika...so naturally Dutch speakers and Afrikaans speakers can understand much about the written parts of each others languages.

The question is, does Yiddish sound like German, or does German sound like Yiddish?
Yiddish comes from Middle-High German.

Bump

Yiddish comes from Middle-High German.

Exactly why they are similar, amirite?

Oy vey!

(That's Yiddish, right?)

My favorite Yiddish word along with schmaltz and schlock. (I don't actually speak Yiddish, just a few loanwords that have been brought into English)

Wait a minute...isn't Yiddish about as obvious a product of multiculturalism as it gets? Shouldn't that make it (and especially the circumstances in which it came to be) unsustainable, bad and forced upon people by PC liberals?

Anyways, I suppose one could be sad about it (I can only guess that Jewish communities in the US apparently don't care), but what's the use? Yiddish is going the way of thousands of other dialects...who still speaks Platt these days? And in 200 years most European languages will probably have disappeared and everyone will be speaking whatever English has become by then. And, lets face it, we'll probably be better off for it.

Anyways, I suppose one could be sad about it (I can only guess that Jewish communities in the US apparently don't care), but what's the use? Yiddish is going the way of thousands of other dialects...who still speaks Platt these days? And in 200 years most European languages will probably have disappeared and everyone will be speaking whatever English has become by then. And, lets face it, we'll probably be better off for it.Agreed. After that, we will only have to make NA English the same as British English and Continental Europe English.

errr, why is it surprising that it sounds a bit like german. it's a fucking germanic language.

Listening to Yiddish always makes me smile.

I can understand most of it perfectly - and some of the words crack me up.

It's a beautiful language and to this day many loan-words are still in the German language today. :)

On the subject, has anyone here ever heard or even heard of Afrikaans? Its a South African language incredibly similar to Dutch... when my cousins Dutch friend came over once we could communicate perfectly well even though we were (technically) speaking different languages

One of my south African friends says in Holland people laugh and say "you sound like my grandmother"

Interesting point, when is something a dialect and when is it a language? One theory is that when dialects become so distinct that they are mutually unintelligible thy are no longer dialects but languages. On that basis Dutch and Afrikaans are the same language but Glaswegian and Yorkshire are separate languages not dialects of English.

Other theories state that something becomes a language when it is politically recognised as such and that governments try to undermine speakers of minority languages by saying they speak a dialect and should speak the 'proper' language instead.

Before the BBC began broadcasting it had a committee to decide the 'proper' pronunciation of the words it would use and which particular accent they should adopt.

They chose an East Midlands accent known as RP as they believed most people in Britain could understand it. But many people struggled to understand early broadcasts.

Sorry I'll stop now - can any one tell i love linguistics?

One of my south African friends says in Holland people laugh and say "you sound like my grandmother"

Interesting point, when is something a dialect and when is it a language? One theory is that when dialects become so distinct that they are mutually unintelligible thy are no longer dialects but languages. On that basis Dutch and Afrikaans are the same language but Glaswegian and Yorkshire are separate languages not dialects of English.

Other theories state that something becomes a language when it is politically recognised as such and that governments try to undermine speakers of minority languages by saying they speak a dialect and should speak the 'proper' language instead.

Before the BBC began broadcasting it had a committee to decide the 'proper' pronunciation of the words it would use and which particular accent they should adopt.

They chose an East Midlands accent known as RP as they believed most people in Britain could understand it. But many people struggled to understand early broadcasts.

Sorry I'll stop now - can any one tell i love linguistics?

I tend to vote for official recognition to make a language.

Wait a minute...isn't Yiddish about as obvious a product of multiculturalism as it gets?

Everything is a product of multiculturalism.

But some things are older than others.

Exactly why they are similar, amirite?
Because it comes from Middle High German, I thought I just said that.:p

Zum beispiel, auf Deutsch sagen wir "Ich hab gekauft".....und auf Yiddisch sagen sie "Ikh hob gekoyft"...oder...auf Deutsch sagen wir "Ich bin gekommen"...und auf Yiddisch sagen sie "Ikh bin gekummen".

And you wouldn't even be asking how they are smiliar if you watched the clip I linked to in the OP.

Wait a minute...isn't Yiddish about as obvious a product of multiculturalism as it gets? Shouldn't that make it (and especially the circumstances in which it came to be) unsustainable, bad and forced upon people by PC liberals?
The creation of Yiddish is a bit before my time....so I don't really have to have an open about it on this...Anyway, I have love different language/dialects...Like Platt or Bavarian or the Austrian and Swiss dialects or Yiddish and on and on.....
Anyways, I suppose one could be sad about it (I can only guess that Jewish communities in the US apparently don't care), but what's the use? Yiddish is going the way of thousands of other dialects...who still speaks Platt these days? And in 200 years most European languages will probably have disappeared and everyone will be speaking whatever English has become by then. And, lets face it, we'll probably be better off for it.
Some people still speak Platt. And you know what..your idea here is exactly the wrong idea. Our languages should be preserved as they are a part of our cultures and histories and should not be forgotten. I'd like to see a revival of Yiddish among the Jewish communities...and it would have been even better if te Israelis chose to spoke Yiddish instead of Hebrew.

bump before I go to bed.