NationStates Jolt Archive

Hey...im beeker...people might recognise the name from way back when...I was a staunch anti nazi on these very boards and had a DOS order on my head for a few years because of my outspoken views...but to get to the point id like to give you some food for thought...even though ive been called alot of things on the net...ive had my face posted on both stormfront and redwatch for rubbing the far right up the wrong way...I want to catagorically state I AM NOT OR WILL EVER BE...A COMMUNIST.

To me communism is just as bad as being a nazi...Stalin was an even bigger mass murderer than hitler...but he seems to be brushed under the carpet of history...stalin was thought to be responsible for the deaths of 20-30 million of his own people...as many if not more than the little austrian tached man...

and it seems like every time I speak out about the right wing aryan race im branded as red...Ive DJed at quite a few ANL(Anti Nazi League) rallies but even they are a front for the socialist workers...it just pisses me off that there seems to be a "them or us" mentality...with me being neither...

Is there any organisations that deal solely with anti nazi issues that doesnt involve signing up to the party?

The German and Israeli governments come to mind...

To me communism is just as bad as being a nazi...

Is this a joke?

I have a bad feeling about this.

Is this a joke?

Far from it...if you knew anything about history you would know that stalin was a murderer just as hitler was...they are both as bad as each other as far as im concerned

Okay... Can I ask how old you are?

34 and dont patronise me...you are obviously offended by my viewpoint but that really doesnt detract from the fact that Stalin was a mass murderer...and anything you say to the contrary will be foolish on your part not mine...

Far from it...if you knew anything about history you would know that stalin was a murderer just as hitler was...they are both as bad as each other as far as im concerned

Okay... Can I ask how old you are?

Manchester is the south of England.

Enough said.

Manchester is the south of England.

Enough said.

manchester is the north of england...Geography...enough said

Far from it...if you knew anything about history you would know that stalin was a murderer just as hitler was...they are both as bad as each other as far as im concerned

Eh. Most people probably agree with you. I'm not sure I understand the emphasis on the comparison, though, or why it's so important to educate others about Stalin, when most are probably informed enough. Or, for that matter, why you would view your politics through comparison to Hitler or Stalin, so much that you would need to organize against either Stalinism or Naziism, unless there's a particular controversy in your neighborhood. :confused:

Pinochet was a capitalist, in my mind a capitalist is just as bad as a nazi!


:rolleyes:


Aren't sweeping unfounded generalizations fun?!

Eh. Most people probably agree with you. I'm not sure I understand the emphasis on the comparison, though, or why it's so important to educate others about Stalin, when most are probably informed enough. Or, for that matter, why you would view your politics through comparison to Hitler or Stalin, so much that you would need to organize against either Stalinism or Naziism, unless there's a particular controversy in your neighborhood. :confused:


Im bringing this subject up not as an endorsement of my political view...but more of a jab at the self righteousness of another...it seems like the far left take some moral high ground that is false economy...

Im bringing this subject up not as an endorsement of my political view...but more of a jab at the self righteousness of another...it seems like the far left take some moral high ground that is false economy...

http://sithoughts.mu.nu/archives/Strawman.jpg

You get 'em killer.

Stalin would so kick Hitler's ass if they fought.



Oh wait, that's not what this thread is about is it? Damn...

http://sithoughts.mu.nu/archives/Strawman.jpg

You get 'em killer.

sarcasm?

from an american?

what a novel concept...bravo!

Stalin would so kick Hitler's ass if they fought.



Oh wait, that's not what this thread is about is it? Damn...



they did fight, did WWII just slip from your memory?:)

Stalins much tougher than the Fuhrer

the difference is Hitler committed genocide. he killed people based on race. Stalin may have killed more but they where his own.

and Stalins a commie...so his intentions were good.

sarcasm?

from an american?

what a novel concept...bravo!

Sarcasm?

From an Englishman?

What a novel concept... bravo!

How very ironic...

anyway...offended communists aside...the reason this was posted is...as stated in my first post...to ask if anyone knows of any active anti nazi groups other than the ones governed by the socialist party...easy enough to understand?

Sarcasm?

From an Englishman?

What a novel concept... bravo!

How very ironic...

counter sarcasm...you have a real flair...obviously missed your vocation in life...

Stalin was an even bigger mass murderer than hitler...but he seems to be brushed under the carpet of history...stalin was thought to be responsible for the deaths of 20-30 million of his own people...

Cold war propoganda. Although Stalin was psychotic. It's a shame he killed Leon Trotsky.

34 and dont patronise me...you are obviously offended by my viewpoint but that really doesnt detract from the fact that Stalin was a mass murderer...and anything you say to the contrary will be foolish on your part not mine...

I just wanted to check you were older than 15 about whether to bother proving how wrong you are or to just wait it out and let you learn yourself. Now, there are two major problems with your little argument...

To me communism is just as bad as being a nazi...Stalin was an even bigger mass murderer than hitler...but he seems to be brushed under the carpet of history...stalin was thought to be responsible for the deaths of 20-30 million of his own people...as many if not more than the little austrian tached man..

First of all, what you have done here is extrapolated Stalin's action to that of an entire ideology that it doesn't belong to. Yes, Stalin committed horrendous crimes, but you cannot put those forward as a representation of communism. That is like saying "well, George Bush is a capitalist, therefore all capitalists are supportive of the Iraq war". That is idiotic because being a capitalist doesn't dictate your position on the issue. Similarly, there aren't any tenets of communism that dictate you have to kill millions of people.

Now I don't support communism at all, and believe a communist state (and less so a communist government) infringes dramatically on people's economic rights, but I would never for a second accuse somebody of being an evil, mass-murdering bastard just because they are socialist or communist. This leads to point two...

Nazism, generally speaking, was created in anger at Jews and communists; an ideology of hate and racism, and you can see the results. Communism on the other hand, while infringing on the right of business and private enterprise, doesn't have anywhere near the evil of the social Darwinism and mass murder of Nazism.

Stalin did what he did because he was an asshole. Other communists don't support it.
Hitler did what he did because he was a Nazi. Other Nazis do support it.

Understand?

EDIT
Not saying Hitler wasn't asshole; you get my point.

manchester is the north of england...Geography...enough said

Jesus, I knew that educational standards had collapsed, but to say that.

If you are south of the Tyne, it is the south of England.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVOF8WT2lpk

I just wanted to check you were older than 15 about whether to bother proving how wrong you are or to just wait it out and let you learn yourself. Now, there are two major problems with your little argument...



First of all, what you have done here is extrapolated Stalin's action to that of an entire ideology that it doesn't belong to. Yes, Stalin committed horrendous crimes, but you cannot put those forward as a representation of communism. That is like saying "well, George Bush is a capitalist, therefore all capitalists are supportive of the Iraq war". That is idiotic because being a capitalist doesn't dictate your position on the issue. Similarly, there aren't any tenets of communism that dictate you have to kill millions of people.

Now I don't support communism at all, and believe a communist state (and less so a communist government) infringes dramatically on people's economic rights, but I would never for a second accuse somebody of being an evil, mass-murdering bastard just because they are socialist or communist. This leads to point two...

Nazism, generally speaking, was created in anger at Jews and communists; an ideology of hate and racism, and you can see the results. Communism on the other hand, while infringing on the right of business and private enterprise, doesn't have anywhere near the evil of the social Darwinism and mass murder of Nazism.

Stalin did what he did because he was an asshole. Other communists don't support it.
Hitler did what he did because he was a Nazi. Other Nazis do support it.

Understand?

EDIT
Not saying Hitler wasn't asshole; you get my point.

I understand completely...but surely you can understand that Stalin...as party leader was held by the communists in the highest regard...and Stalin alone didnt kill 20-30 million people...his underlings did...therefore...theoretically communists were responsible for those deaths...either directly or indirectly...china is the same...another semi-dictatorship...another blood soaked society...do you see a pattern forming here?

just because communism isnt branded with the nazi hate crime monicker...doesnt mean to say its harmless...yes I understand your point that its idealogy is sound...im not disputing that...my point is that communists have been responsible for equal...if not more bloodshed than the nazis...I find them both abhorrent

counter sarcasm...you have a real flair...obviously missed your vocation in life...

No, it's counter-counter-sarcasm. What was your post if not counter sarcasm?

and Nazism is bassically exactly hitlers ideal whilst Stalinism(directly stalins ideal) is a whole new part of communism and one that many commies disown.

get you facts right and don't genaralise 'all republicans are racists and live in alabama and carry shotguns"

Jesus, I knew that educational standards had collapsed, but to say that.

If you are south of the Tyne, it is the south of England.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVOF8WT2lpk

you yanks need an education system which teaches you about the rest of the world...Manchester is in the north west of england...how do I know this?? because I live there...are you seriously going to persue this...on the grounds that you will look extremely foolish if you persist? hahaha!!

To me communism is just as bad as being a nazi...Stalin was an even bigger mass murderer than hitler...

So - putting the means of production in the hands of the workers is as bad as fascistic nationalism?

Or is it possible you aren't being entirely realistic?

Yes - Stalin had a lot of people killed. Yes, so did Hitler. But then - it's hard to imagine a fully realised Nazi ideal that isn't destructive, whereas a perfect communism would basically be an equitable share of the wealth.


Rather than spouting your anti-red propaganda, you could have spared us your little soapbox, and asked your question.

Jesus, I knew that educational standards had collapsed, but to say that.

If you are south of the Tyne, it is the south of England.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVOF8WT2lpk

Ah, but if you are English, you know that anything north of the Watford Gap is 'the north'. :D

'North' and 'South' aren't the same in the UK as they are elsewhere. 'North' basically equates more to a political line... something along the lines of 'is jealous of London'.

I understand completely...but surely you can understand that Stalin...as party leader was held by the communists in the highest regard...and Stalin alone didnt kill 20-30 million people...his underlings did...therefore...theoretically communists were responsible for those deaths...either directly or indirectly...china is the same...another semi-dictatorship...another blood soaked society...do you see a pattern forming here?

just because communism isnt branded with the nazi hate crime monicker...doesnt mean to say its harmless...yes I understand your point that its idealogy is sound...im not disputing that...my point is that communists have been responsible for eqaul...if not more bloodshed than the nazis...I find them both abhorrent

But to say that a communist is just as bad as a Nazi is completely unfair. A Nazi, by definition, will be a racist son-of-a-bitch. A communist, however, can be the sweetest person in the world who just wants a different economic system for their country. It is akin to racism to judge somebody as being good or bad because of actions that other people under their or a similar ideology have committed, especially in the case of communism when the ideology didn't actually prompt these actions. Nazism is overtly racist and violent, so it is fair enough to see one on the street and call him an asshole. But it isn't right to see a commie on the street and do the same.

Ah, but if you are English, you know that anything north of the Watford Gap is 'the north'. :D

'North' and 'South' aren't the same in the UK as they are elsewhere. 'North' basically equates more to a political line... something along the lines of 'is jealous of London'.

the day im jealous of the big smoke is the day I slit my wrists and die whilst listening to chaz and dave...

Ah, but if you are English, you know that anything north of the Watford Gap is 'the north'. :D

'North' and 'South' aren't the same in the UK as they are elsewhere. 'North' basically equates more to a political line... something along the lines of 'is jealous of London'.

Ah, but if you were from the Tyneside, you would know that anything south of the Tyne is south.

And therefore crap.

the day im jealous of the big smoke is the day I slit my wrists and die whilst listening to chaz and dave...

Any old iron &c,.

But to say that a communist is just as bad as a Nazi is completely unfair. A Nazi, by definition, will be a racist son-of-a-bitch. A communist, however, can be the sweetest person in the world who just wants a different economic system for their country. It is akin to racism to judge somebody as being good or bad because of actions that other people under their or a similar ideology have committed, especially in the case of communism when the ideology didn't actually prompt these actions. Nazism is overtly racist and violent, so it is fair enough to see one on the street and call him an asshole. But it isn't right to see a commie on the street and do the same.

hmmm...again I agree with you in part pac man...but let me put this to you...when the nazi party was at its height...Hitler had just revived germanys economy and germany was getting back on its feet after the first world war...not everyone was a skinhead thug...decent law abiding citizens were nazis...content that hitler was putting food on their tables...does this not equate? not every german was a thug...just as not every communist is...but there are factions in both organisations which actively promote violence...I know...ive spoken to socialist party members at the ANL meets who seek out violence against the far right...so I fear you are a little misguided in your view that communists are sweetness and light...hence my point...I think its more of a case of "Wolves in sheeps clothing"

That's like asking "Would you prefer to be raped with wooden dowel rod with spikes in it, or would you prefer to be raped with wooden dowel rod with spikes in it?"

Ah, but if you were from the Tyneside, you would know that anything south of the Tyne is south.

And therefore crap.

No argument that the Tyne is north... but why anyone would make a habit of going north of (say) York, anyway, is the real question.

I assume this is another of those pseudo-political divides. In this case 'south' means something along the lines of 'steals radios from cars that actually run'.

the day im jealous of the big smoke is the day I slit my wrists and die whilst listening to chaz and dave...

The 'rant' about the 'commies', the 'northern pride', the obligatory swipe at mockney culture. Textbook case.

The 'rant' about the 'commies', the 'northern pride', the obligatory swipe at mockney culture. Textbook case.

believe it or not grave...im more of a fence sitter...I just throw my two pence in and watch the shit fly ;-)

No argument that the Tyne is north... but why anyone would make a habit of going north of (say) York, anyway, is the real question.

I assume this is another of those pseudo-political divides. In this case 'south' means something along the lines of 'steals radios from cars that actually run'.

Not really. Mancunians are poor. And of below normal intelligence. This is why you can't join the Coldstream Guards.

On the other hand, north tyneside is rolling in wedge. Mostly stolen, it's true, but nevertheless there.

hmmm...again I agree with you in part pac man...but let me put this to you...when the nazi party was at its height...Hitler had just revived germanys economy and germany was getting back on its feet after the first world war...not everyone was a skinhead thug...decent law abiding citizens were nazis...content that hitler was putting food on their tables...does this not equate? not every german was a thug...just as not every communist is...but there are factions in both organisations which actively promote violence...I know...ive spoken to socialist party members at the ANL meets who seek out violence against the far right...so I fear you are a little misguided in your view that communists are sweetness and light...hence my point...I think its more of a case of "Wolves in sheeps clothing"

Oh dear God. I'm not talking about WWII Germany. You said in your first post that Nazis are as bad as communists. Yet Nazis are by definition all racists and subscribe to a horrible ideology. Communism, but, isn't based on anything nearly as disagreeable. There are some that seek violence, but this is not part of communism, it is part of their personality or whatever splinter ideology they believe in. Seriously, these are not ambiguous concepts to grasp.

The Jews in Nazi Germany; they were targeted and persecuted because they were seen as being part of the cause of Germany's troubles. You can't deny that there would have been some Jews who played a part in this and wanted to see Germany suffer. But does this mean that Jews are just as bad as Nazis? No. Now apply this analogy to your "communists are as bad as Nazis" comment.

Oh dear God. I'm not talking about WWII Germany. You said in your first post that Nazis are as bad as communists. Yet Nazis are by definition all racists and subscribe to a horrible ideology. Communism, but, isn't based on anything nearly as disagreeable. There are some that seek violence, but this is not part of communism, it is part of their personality or whatever splinter ideology they believe in. Seriously, these are not ambiguous concepts to grasp.

The Jews in Nazi Germany; they were targeted and persecuted because they were seen as being part of the cause of Germany's troubles. You can't deny that there would have been some Jews who played a part in this and wanted to see Germany suffer. But does this mean that Jews are just as bad as Nazis? No. Now apply this analogy to your "communists are as bad as Nazis" comment.

ok...just for you ill rephrase..."alot of communists are as bad as nazis"

there...so now you can rest...safe in the knowledge that not all communists are killers (but most in power are) happy? ;-)

they did fight, did WWII just slip from your memory?:)

Hm, you're right. Still, that only proves my point. Hitler is a wuss, he offed himself when Stalin came for him.

Not really. Mancunians are poor. And of below normal intelligence. This is why you can't join the Coldstream Guards.

On the other hand, north tynside is rolling in wedge. Mostly stolen, it's true, but nevertheless there.

Im not mancunian...dwi'n cymraeg ;-)

and dont even talk to me about intelligence...try unintelligable...which sums up newcastle residents rather well ;-)

Im not mancunian...dwi'n cymraeg ;-)

and dont even talk to me about intelligence...try unintelligable...which sums up newcastle residents rather well ;-)

Haha, your mother was a sheep.

And we are totally intelligible. The rest of you are too thick to understand.

ok...just for you ill rephrase..."alot of communists are as bad as nazis"


Based on your examples... your definition of 'a lot of communists' would read something like "one communist...".

And we are totally intelligible. The rest of you are too thick to understand.

Errr... wouldn't that make you UN-intelligible, then?



:D

Based on your examples... your definition of 'a lot of communists' would read something like "one communist...".

one communist killed 20-30 million people?

must have put ian brady to shame...phone norris mcguerter at the guiness book of records...

Eugene V Debs was a bastard too I guess.

Errr... wouldn't that make you UN-intelligible, then?



:D

Geordies have no need of logic.

Oy... my Welsh is slipping... it looks like you are 'going to Welsh'.

Isn't it 'out of wales'.

Im not mancunian...dwi'n cymraeg ;-)

and dont even talk to me about intelligence...try unintelligable...which sums up newcastle residents rather well ;-)

Oy... my Welsh is slipping... it looks like you are 'going to Welsh'.

ok...just for you ill rephrase..."alot of communists are as bad as nazis"

there...so now you can rest...safe in the knowledge that not all communists are killers (but most in power are) happy? ;-)

No. "A lot" seems to imply a majority, where as it should say minority. But furthermore the sentence itself suggests that communism itself is akin in objectionableness to Nazism, but you have admitted it is not already, and it also implies that communists like Stalin committed their crimes solely because they were communist. I'd be happy with:

Many people working in or towards a communist state have used inhumane devices such as mass murder to try to build and retain their power. While their motivations may have been different, I think that Stalin and people like him are just as bad as Hitler and his kin.

I still wouldn't agree that Stalin was as bad as Hitler because of their differing intentions, but it would be better as you a) wouldn't be casting communism as an ideology on the same level with Nazism and b) wouldn't be implying Stalin's action were singularly attributable to communism and thus denigrating millions of people who hold nothing but contempt for his actions though share similar economic ideals.

no that would be...dwi'n fynd i cymraeg...im fluent so I know what im talking about ;-)

That's awesome actually. (Despite your south of the tyne smelly). I would really like to resurrect cumbric.

Oy... my Welsh is slipping... it looks like you are 'going to Welsh'.

no that would be...dwi'n fynd i cymraeg...im fluent so I know what im talking about ;-)

one communist killed 20-30 million people?

must have put ian brady to shame...phone norris mcguerter at the guiness book of records...

Stalin's dead (whether you take the 'low' 9 million figures, or the high 60-odd million figures) were not killed by communism, but corrupt government and brutality. Neither of which are peculiar to communism.

Stalin's deathsquads would have killed for any ideology. Trotsky wasn't killed by communism, but by an icepick.

Stalin's dead (whether you take the 'low' 9 million figures, or the high 60-odd million figures) were not killed by communism, but corrupt government and brutality. Neither of which are peculiar to communism.

Stalin's deathsquads would have killed for any ideology. Trotsky wasn't killed by communism, but by an icepick.

agreed...not killed by communism but killed by communists none the less...with an obvious agenda...splitting hairs

no that would be...dwi'n fynd i cymraeg...im fluent so I know what im talking about ;-)

Aye... it's more than 20 years since I last had good call to even sneeze in the general direction of Wales-ish-ness. I'm thinking I was conjuring up (or just plain imagining an implication) some variant on 'dwi'n mynd' for some reason.

agreed...not killed by communism but killed by communists none the less...with an obvious agenda...splitting hairs

Nope - killed by one 'communist' (Stalin's actual 'communism' is largely a matter of conjecture, I suspect... he was a power hungry despot, any ideology would have done) with a lot of henchmen. They were no more 'communists' than a bobby is intrinsically Labour or Tory.

Aye... it's more than 20 years since I last had good call to even sneeze in the general direction of Wales-ish-ness. I'm thinking I was conjuring up (or just plain imagining an implication) some variant on 'dwi'n mynd' for some reason.

not bad though grave...cant say im not impressed you have a basic grasp of the language...im assuming you have lived in wales at some point? Its not something you pick up easily

not bad though grave...cant say im not impressed you have a basic grasp of the language...im assuming you have lived in wales at some point? Its not something you pick up easily

I have family there. I've done little more than visit, and even then - not in a while. :)

I usually do okay with languages, though.


Plus - Got to be worth it for the best 'aside' ever. Stalin ---> to Welsh, in four pages. :D

I'm suprised you are having any problems at all -

"If you're not Nazi, you MUST be RED"

Uh? That's like saying "If you don't like Pepsi, you MUST like coke"
Whatever happened to the other brands?

I have family there. I've done little more than visit, and even then - not in a while. :)

I usually do okay with languages, though.


Plus - Got to be worth it for the best 'aside' ever. Stalin ---> to Welsh, in four pages. :D

haha...my next thread will be celtic nations vs english(french normans in disguise)

;)

nice to meet you grave...im beeker...ask a few of the old brigade on here about me...im trouble...but in a good way ;-)

well...

dwin'n fynd i gwely

nos dda...or should I say bore dda!

This thread is stupid, because everyone knows an objective, honest evaluation of Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin would result in your account being disabled.

Hm, you're right. Still, that only proves my point. Hitler is a wuss, he offed himself when Stalin came for him.

A 'wuss' that served four years at the front and won two Iron Crosses.

yea starlin should be seen as being as 'bad' as hitler.
i just find it realy annoying when people try to blame stuff on 'nazism' or 'communism'. its not the ideals that killed millions of people, its the people that killed millions of people. its like saying "i hate all hairdressers" or "all hairdressers should go to jail" just because you read an article in the paper about hairdreser who murdered someone. nazism and communism dont work because they end up controling others through hate and fear.

haha...my next thread will be celtic nations vs english(french normans in disguise)

;)

nice to meet you grave...im beeker...ask a few of the old brigade on here about me...im trouble...but in a good way ;-)

well...

dwin'n fynd i gwely

nos dda...or should I say bore dda!

You were actually still here, barely, when I first turned up - I think. That was with my little used nation that preceded this one by a year or more. Hell - I used that one when I was back in the mother country.

Bedtime sounds good, right about now. Nos dda here, bore dda there, methinks.

yea starlin should be seen as being as 'bad' as hitler.
i just find it realy annoying when people try to blame stuff on 'nazism' or 'communism'. its not the ideals that killed millions of people, its the people that killed millions of people. its like saying "i hate all hairdressers" or "all hairdressers should go to jail" just because you read an article in the paper about hairdreser who murdered someone. nazism and communism dont work because they end up controling others through hate and fear.

Um... did you just defend Nazism...???

Hitler IS Nazism, you can't say that comparing Hitler to Nazism is the same as comparing Stalin to Communism.

Likewise Stalin killed to stay in power; Hitler killed because he, literaly, didn't like your hair colour. I don't know; seem like different motives to me.

One last thing: Stalin is not a figurehead of the modern Communist, whilst Hitler is practically prayed to by modern Nazis.

In my personal opinion, Communism and Nazism are almost the same thing. Nazism - Nazionalsocialism - was born from Marx's ideas, with infiltrations of harsh nationalism.
Mussolini, founder of Fascismo, was, in the beginning, a strongly left-winged politician (president of "Avanti!"), and Fascism itself was firstly born as a left movement (fasci siciliani, for example). Then Fascismo, as you all know, became a massive right-winged party and politic movement. Mussolini founded this new form of Fascismo after he had been expelled by the left, because of his interventism during WWI. Fascismo keep in itself some aspects of old socialism, such as care about people, revolutionary methods, war against government... or so it was, at least, in propaganda. What Fascism really did to Italy, I think you all know (blood, death, hate):(.
Hitler was higly inspired by Mussolinian nationalist ideals, and Mussolini, as leader of a bourgheois revolution, was well seen by most of anti-commie Europe, receiving good comments from, ad ex., Churchill. "Nazionalsocialism" is not a world made up to deceive, there truely was a socialist component in Nazism.
Stalin (and Lenin, whom I don't think to be better than he) and his gulag were able at doing something similar: translate comunism in state capitalism.
Marx was no theoric. He was a practical man, and thought not in utopian ways. He thought his ideals had to be applied. The result is that, everywhere comunism has set foot, it has transformed in a bloody dictature from the Party, and the Party has become the State, and anarchy has never been reached.

In my personal opinion, Communism and Nazism are almost the same thing. Nazism - Nazionalsocialism - was born from Marx's ideas, with infiltrations of harsh nationalism.
Not really. Quite different, in fact.

Nazism was basically a populist, violent and capitalist movement, with little real socialist element.

Communism is... erm... communism.
Mussolini, founder of Fascismo, was, in the beginning, a strongly left-winged politician (president of "Avanti!")
That's also how he (slightly) stayed, as much as that might make you sad.
and Fascism itself was firstly born as a left movement (fasci siciliani, for example). Then Fascismo, as you all know, became a massive right-winged party and politic movement.
Erm, it was pretty centrist-going-right wing all of the way through, and yet at no time was it really a 'massive right-winged-party'. It was a state in need of money, like every other, and money doesn't grow on trees, so it needed big business.

It believed in the Third Way, basically a mix of capitalism and socialism.
Mussolini founded this new form of Fascismo after he had been expelled by the left, because of his interventism during WWI.
Erm. Mussolini left the PSI, because he could see that war with Austro-Hangary was going to happen, and that the PSI couldn't do anything but complain about it, due to the lack of actual power they had (no real ties with big business meant that they were always going to be the underdogs when push came to shove).

He saw that the British Labour Party and the German Socialist Party were pro-war, and saw that perhaps people weren't against the war if it would lead to a betterment of their lives in the aftermath.

Obviously, that didn't happen to Italy, whose sole major military acheivement came at the time when Germany were throwing 14-year-olds at the frontlines. But there you go, really.
Fascismo keep in itself some aspects of old socialism, such as care about people, revolutionary methods, war against government... or so it was, at least, in propaganda.
Ermm. The whole point of Fascism is that it doesn't have a war against the government, because it IS the overriding force of government.
What Fascism really did to Italy, I think you all know
About the same as every other government in Mainland Europe did through the 1930s - sat about being poor until about 1934, and then wasted a whole bunch of money on outdated weapons, which were basically all scrapped at the start of WW2 anyway.
(blood, death, hate):(.
There were far worse states in Europe in the 1930s than Italy, and the actual bodycount of Italian fascism is, outside of a really, really crappy time around the 1924 elections, surprisingly low.
Hitler was higly inspired by Mussolinian nationalist ideals
Very true. On the other hand, the two were very much at odds in the early 1930s, as was seen when Mussolini sent troops to the Austrian border to stop Hitler taking over Austria in 1934.
and Mussolini, as leader of a bourgheois revolution
Pfft.

He took power both by force and by charisma. See also every other revolution in the whole of history.
was well seen by most of anti-commie Europe, receiving good comments from, ad ex., Churchill.
True. Not much of a fan of Churchill myself. But there you go.
"Nazionalsocialism" is not a world made up to deceive, there truely was a socialist component in Nazism.
The inclusion of both "worker's" and "socialism" in the NSDAP's name was a vote winner and nothing else, as you could kind of see by the crappy treatment of German workers which was ignored by the Nazi government.
Stalin (and Lenin, whom I don't think to be better than he) and his gulag were able at doing something similar: translate comunism in state capitalism.
Slightly true, although the NEP showed that Lenin at least had the good sense to try out a mixed economy for a while, to develop trade relations with other states, instead of pushing too quickly again with what was supposedly communism, essentially so he could kick his foes out of the party, as Stalin did.
Marx was no theoric. He was a practical man, and thought not in utopian ways. He thought his ideals had to be applied. The result is that, everywhere comunism has set foot, it has transformed in a bloody dictature from the Party, and the Party has become the State, and anarchy has never been reached.
Marxism is an absolute crock, and hopefully the more left-wing elements in Western Europe will realise this extremely quickly, lest they fade completely into obscurity.

You can be a socialist without being a Marxist. I know this, because I am one. Socialism isn't about class wars, or broadly defining people as "the Proletariat" or "the Bourgeoisie", because that basically makes you look like a pretentious moron. Socialism is about improving the quality of life for everyone, be they rich, poor or middle class.




*edits*

Both Stalin and Hitler were bad guys. So there you go.

Is this a joke?

and Nazism is bassically exactly hitlers ideal whilst Stalinism(directly stalins ideal) is a whole new part of communism and one that many commies disown.

get you facts right and don't genaralise 'all republicans are racists and live in alabama and carry shotguns"

correct i live in indiana.

correct i live in indiana.

ah but do you carry a shotgun? ;)

Pinochet was a capitalist, in my mind a capitalist is just as bad as a nazi!


:rolleyes:


Aren't sweeping unfounded generalizations fun?!

If anything it's highlighting the evils of authoritarianist regimes, more than economic systems.

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely...

Nazism includes mass murder of inferior races. That was what Hitler carried out. Communism, on the other hand, is a theory of economics. Stalin's mass murders were related to communism as much as Saddam Husseins atrocities were related to Islam. (Which is, of course, not at all.) Though there are violence and atrocities caused by communism in other places and times, Stalin's practices were directed by his hunger for power, not communism, and communism accounts for a minimal number of politically-motivated killings in these times, even within Russia. So, condemning communism on the basis of condemning Josef Stalin is propably a wrong conclusion. I'm no communist as well, but I blame communism only for economic failures (A famine in China, caused by wrong agricultural police of Mao Zedong, acounts for the largest number of deaths caused by a single event in the entire human history, accounting for 60 mil. dead. That was unintended violence, and goes completely unnoticed), not necessary for excessive violence by its leaders.
But that's just me talking.

How Communism was implemented in the CCCP

A group of disconnected people living off the wealth of the populace they supposedly represent for life, all get together and make the decision who will run the country. To call themselves democratic, they then place this single persons name they have decided to run things, on a ballot, so that the people have the choice on whether to vote for this person, or not vote at all. In which case (surprise)... the groups choice wins the election. This person then runs things till the day he dies, at which time the process repeats...

Sorry but the way communism "has" been implemented like under Stalin, is not representative of economic systems, it's representative of giving one person too much damn power.... Stalin/Hitler... two sides of the corrupt authoritarian coin.

Communism is fucking shit. But Stalinist Russia was not communist. Well, not pure communist.

Stalin would so kick Hitler's ass if they fought.



Oh wait, that's not what this thread is about is it? Damn...

I'd pay to watch that. Seriously, in a cage that would be great entertainment.

I thought that was coprophilia?

:p

Well you never know about Stalin, being a dictator is lonely!

Communism is fucking shit. But Stalinist Russia was not communist. Well, not pure communist.

I thought that was coprophilia?

Anti-nazism is the most inane ideaology one can tout. Especially when one is a socialist, but not exclusively. What kind of a miserable idiot actively searches for an 'anti-nazi organisation'. It's not even a real ieaology, it is an opposition to an opposed and widely unpopular ideaology largely at the expense of those who suffered at it's hands. Get the fuck opver it, your opposition grants it more creedence than it detracts.

Is this a joke?

No, it is the usual anti-communist rant. Lately we get about 3/week, plus the usual "this forum is full of commie godless heaten liberals, teh mods wanna steel me speech fredum".

also, watch this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDgLf-EQSW0