NationStates Jolt Archive

Why do you believe in god or don't?

heck no

To "borrow" from Bill Clinton and the infamous query "what is the definition of 'is'?"

Define "God".

nope. Just don't. no major life altering event, no nothing.

Raised Christian, and simply stopped believing.

I must admit i'm a huge existentialist it opened my eyes. Think about we're totally free in this world, but we choose to believe in religion, government, when honestly we don't have to follow it. "Religion is like opium for the masses"

OMGz! A thread about whether God exists or not. An absolute 1st here on NSG. Thank you sincerely for bring us such an original topic that has not been debated here and everywhere else ad nausem. sincerely.

I do believe in a higher power.

No god...just the path.

I do!

Nope. But that seems fair, because I don't think she believes in me either.

Wow. Since when is the amount of atheists larger than the amount of religious people on this forum? That's a first..

Wow. Since when is the amount of atheists larger than the amount of religious people on this forum? That's a first..

I know! Like this thread which introduces the God debate for the very 1st time!

OMGz! A thread about whether God exists or not. An absolute 1st here on NSG. Thank you sincerely for bring us such an original topic that has not been debated here and everywhere else ad nausem. sincerely.

Take it easy. You're talking to a new member. Don't run off a new friend. If you don't like the topic just click on another.

Why, yes, yes I do!

Take it easy. You're talking to a new member. Don't run off a new friend. If you don't like the topic just click on another.

But there's so few topics! I just want to be entertained, is that too much to ask!?

At one time I had my doubts but now I agree with Wilgrove. Yes there is a higher power and we call Him God.

OMGz! A thread about whether God exists or not. An absolute 1st here on NSG. Thank you sincerely for bring us such an original topic that has not been debated here and everywhere else ad nausem. sincerely.

:fluffle:

I believe in the God name YWVH, but not sovie's god. Sorry sovie :)

my god resides in mend bending plants. they tell me things. secret things in secret languages.

:fluffle:

I believe in the God name YWVH, but not sovie's god. Sorry sovie :)
spoiler alert: It's the same God. :)

But there's so few topics! I just want to be entertained, is that too much to ask!?



*tases Sovie* :p

which god are we talking about?

*tases Sovie* :p

ROFL! You actually did entertain me with that. You win the thread, and get a cookie. Just don't tase me again, it hurts like a bitch.:p

spoiler alert: It's the same God. :)

How so? We believe that Yeshua, is Yaweh in human form. We worship Yeshua as our God, you worship Allah. Totally different mate.

which god are we talking about?

Depends on what your perception of the higher power is, if you believe in a higher power.

Allah?

Not a separate God, just the arabic word for said God.

No, but I do believe in teapots...:p

though I prefer coffee.

How so? We believe that Yeshua, is Yaweh in human form. We worship Yeshua as our God, you worship Allah. Totally different mate.

nope, both the God of Abraham.

which god are we talking about?

Allah?

I have recently changed my views from agnostic to atheist. Because even though anything is technically possible, I just really don't see a chance of there being a god, and I just don't see why I should give consideration to one, unless I consider every other far off idea I know.

How so? We believe that Yeshua, is Yaweh in human form. We worship Yeshua as our God, you worship Allah. Totally different mate.

Well, it could be argued you believe in the same God, but you just believe different things about him. For example, some people believe that, say... the US is an evil empire. Some believe it is the greatest country ever. And some believe that it is, like any other country, a complex nation full of diverse people with different beliefs and viewpoints.

But that doesn't mean that they aren't all talking about the same country when they say "The United States."

nope, both the God of Abraham.

Like I said, that God is Yeshua, also known as Yaweh, el shadai, el, adonai, etc etc. Do you worship Jesus then? Because if not, then we don't worship the same God.

ROFL! You actually did entertain me with that. You win the thread, and get a cookie. Just don't tase me again, it hurts like a bitch.:p


Hah, well with a Sig like that! It's like putting a sign next to a button saying not to push the button. What's the first thing you wanna do?


Also, I thought it was obvious that this was teh god we were all talking about:
http://www.el-indio.com/god-of-wind-sm.gif
You gotta be more specific next time.

I do believe in GOD. I stopped for a while when my mom died of cancer. She never did anything to anyone and I was pissed at GOD. I searched for a bit and tried Druidism and Wiccan and the Kabalah. I studied the Kabalah way before it was distorted by Madona. Read the book "Modern Magick, Eleven Lessons in the High Magickal Arts" by Donald Michael Kraig ISBN 0-87542-324-8. Hindi and Buddism Never interested me because I am an omnivore. I have read the tarot and done rune readings. I noticed something though with the various religions. They all link to each other in a loose sort of way. I believe there is some "spark" that ignited the big bang, so to speak. What that spark is is yet to be defined. I would assume that it is a combo of Male and female. Zeus even came down as light and made babies (see Jesus and Mary).
Being a United States Marine (once a marine always a marine 1990-1996) In Somalia i realized that there are no atheist when being fired upon. I prayed to every Deity i could in the hopes of hitting the right combo. It wasn't until 2000 when i met my current wife that I re-found GOD with her help, I was tired of hating the world and having nothing to look forward to in death. Middle case scenario is I am wrong and just become dust. Best-case scenario I am right and go to heaven. Worst-case scenario I go to hell. I see it as nothing to loose. In my beliefs GOD does not care if you go pay some asshole in church, he just wants some respect.

Like I said, that God is Yeshua, also known as Yaweh, el shadai, el, adonai, etc etc. Do you worship Jesus then? Because if not, then we don't worship the same God.

Ok. Your lucky I'm tired and really agreeable at the moment right now or would might try to form a semi-coherent talkie thing. maybe.

I don't believe in God or any (demi)-god or (demi)-goddess for that matter. All bunk.

Wow. Since when is the amount of atheists larger than the amount of religious people on this forum? That's a first..
Nope....happens all the time.

To "borrow" from Bill Clinton and the infamous query "what is the definition of 'is'?"

Define "God".

Indeed, seconded...

Which ones, in what order, and with what semantic tricks used to make sure you can pretend dualism or monotheism (Islam and Christianity, I'm looking at your angels :p ).

i beleve in god. a god to be specific. i am no one religion though. I base my learnings of of Jehovah's Witness Christianity, though i mix Buddhism, Taoism, Shintoism, Ancient Egyptian beliefs, Greek and Roman beliefs, and many other beliefs and philosophies. To create the most ideal belief system i think could be possible and i add on to what i have as i learn.


:sniper:

Not a separate God, just the arabic word for said God.

Same God the Jews put their faith in?

I believe in God in the same way as I beleive in Santa Claus.

i think worshipping Jesus and God is blasphamy (sp). God is different from Jesus. Jesus is Archangel Michael born into the Virgin Mary's body. And Jesus's last name wouldn't be Christ btw. Christ means messiah, its not a name.

Like I said, that God is Yeshua, also known as Yaweh, el shadai, el, adonai, etc etc. Do you worship Jesus then? Because if not, then we don't worship the same God.

Just because one doesn't believe Jesus was the son of the Abrahamic god, doesn't mean they don't worship they Abrahamic god.

I believe in the Christian God. And I believe that, the Muslim God, Allah, and the Jewish God are all the same God that Christians believe in. There's just different teachings of Him.

I believe in the Christian God. And I believe that, the Muslim God, Allah, and the Jewish God are all the same God that Christians believe in. There's just different teachings of Him.

agreed. i also think it is funny how that god has caused more war than any other god in history, i think, and most against each other. and that god teaches to be peaceful. irony much

Hah, well with a Sig like that! It's like putting a sign next to a button saying not to push the button. What's the first thing you wanna do?

not push the button? :p

Also, I thought it was obvious that this was teh god we were all talking about:
http://www.el-indio.com/god-of-wind-sm.gif
You gotta be more specific next time.
ew, he's gasy. :p

I believe in God in the same way as I beleive in Santa Claus.

You believe in Santa?

You believe in Santa?

As much as I believe in God.

As much as I believe in God.

Which is a lot I bet.

Santa Claus the infamous children's Christmas entity or St. Nicholas, the actual person?

i think worshipping Jesus and God is blasphamy (sp). God is different from Jesus. Jesus is Archangel Michael born into the Virgin Mary's body. And Jesus's last name wouldn't be Christ btw. Christ means messiah, its not a name.

WTF :confused:

Does the Flying Spaghetti Monster count? :D

Santa Claus the infamous children's Christmas entity or St. Nicholas, the actual person?

Which did I say?

Which is a lot I bet.

If "not at all" is "a lot" then, yes, a lot.

I believe in "a" god/God/entity, but I have a real difficult time believing in the existence of the "Christian" God that sermons and my parents talk to me about; the God who "loves you" and "wants you to do this and this", etc. I may have watched way too many sci-fi shows or whatever, but I have a real difficult time believing that an omnipotent, all-knowing being would care that much about human affairs. Even if we're "created in His image", I don't think God would want to micromanage humanity to that extent, or want us to do anything specific, after all, we are given free will aren't we?

define "god"

I don't believe in any gods, elves, fae, spirits, angels, daemons or other magical beings. :)

yes (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=479090)ROFL! You actually did entertain me with that. You win the thread, and get a cookie. Just don't tase me again, it hurts like a bitch.:p

but it was soooo entertaining... :p

Why do you believe in god or don't?

From my experience, no. I prayed desperately for the love of someone I deeply care about. As it now stands, she never wants to see or talk to me again. With as much suffering and torment that caused me, there can be no god.

I have yet to find any evidence for God, in the usual sense of the word.

Just because one doesn't believe Jesus was the son of the Abrahamic god, doesn't mean they don't worship they Abrahamic god.

Jesus IS the God of Abraham though, just in human flesh. Muslims and jews deny this. They do not worship the same god as christians. We worship Jesus as God.

The muslims Allah came from ilah, the moon god of arabian pagan tradition. Ever hear of the three daughters of Allah that Mohammed mentions? It points to this. Different God.

i think worshipping Jesus and God is blasphamy (sp). God is different from Jesus. Jesus is Archangel Michael born into the Virgin Mary's body. And Jesus's last name wouldn't be Christ btw. Christ means messiah, its not a name.


God is Jesus. Jesus is God. They are one in the same. Not different. If they are different, then christianity is a pagan religion. but they are different. Jesus said before abraham was, I AM, which Yahweh said in the OT a few times(the I AM bit) Jesus is just Yawehs human incarnate. If you look at the OT there is several times Yahweh is described in a human form. If he could do it then, why couldn't he be Jesus? If you look at what he was called, Yeshua, moshiach(Jesus Christ in english) It means, Saviour/salvation, the messiah. Who apart from God can defeat sin? Who apart from God can be salvation? no one, there fore, either Jesus was a lunatic, and right killed by the Jews, or HE WAS GOD, and deserves worship. If you notice, when people worshipped him in the NT, he never condemned them or tried to stop them, now did he?

You'll soon learn that a lot of people around here hate the concept of God. Not the people who worship it, but just the idea of an invisible magical man in the sky.

You'll soon learn that a lot of people around here hate the concept of God. Not the people who worship it, but just the idea of an invisible magical man in the sky.

I hate how people try to over simplify God as the magical man in the sky.

Might as well call evolution the magical monkey-man method.

But that would be stupid. WHy?

1) It over simplifies the idea into something that it isn't
2) Its purely stupid.

When you get past the idea of Yahweh being just an imaginary guy in the sky, and realize what He really is, then you can begin to see His true nature.

I hate how people try to over simplify God as the magical man in the sky.

Might as well call evolution the magical monkey-man method.

But that would be stupid. WHy?

1) It over simplifies the idea into something that it isn't
2) Its purely stupid.

When you get past the idea of Yahweh being just an imaginary guy in the sky, and realize what He really is, then you can begin to see His true nature.

That's only if I actually believe in a Yahweh, or a Shiva, or a Jesus as the Messiah. And, yes, the Christian God is a magical man in the sky. A magical man who knocked up an Earth woman and they had a magical son.

JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD. I beleive in Jesus and God. GOD has blessed me in more ways then I can ever tell you.My GOD is a loving GOD.

JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD. I beleive in Jesus and God. GOD has blessed me in more ways then I can ever tell you.My GOD is a loving GOD.

Okay, and unless you live in a fascist dictatorship you're perfectly free to feel that way.

That's only if I actually believe in a Yahweh, or a Shiva, or a Jesus as the Messiah. And, yes, the Christian God is a magical man in the sky. A magical man who knocked up an Earth woman and they had a magical son.


Again your try and over simplify it, because it makes it sound totally outrageous. Its pretty pathetic attempt to write someone else's belief off in such a manner.

Again your try and over simplify it, because it makes it sound totally outrageous. Its pretty pathetic attempt to write someone else's belief off in such a manner.

Or the fact that I simply don't feel like reading paragraphs upon paragraphs of the forums' religious reasoning at 1AM. And until someone provides me with a non-religious text to rely on for Jesus's holiness or Allah/God/Yahweh's existence; I will continue to believe that it is an outrageous idea to have a supernatural being(s) watching over the world.

spoiler alert: It's the same God. :)

Uh, spoiler alert for YOU; they are NOT the same God. Your god never begat a son; mine DID.

JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD. I beleive in Jesus and God. GOD has blessed me in more ways then I can ever tell you.My GOD is a loving GOD.

I agree with YOU, except "beleive" should be "believe" (spelling error)

lol :)

Uh, spoiler alert for YOU; they are NOT the same God. Your god never begat a son; mine DID.

Sounds like you "god" is better than anyone elses.

Uh, spoiler alert for YOU; they are NOT the same God. Your god never begat a son; mine DID.

So the mythology's a little different, the god of Christians is the god of Jews is the god of Muslims is one of the gods of Caanites.

Yahweh = El = Allah.

Not in the Western sense.

I believe in personal spirituality; Deism, in specific, though there are a few abstracts in my thinking that don't fall in line with traditional teachings. But here are the basics. DISCLAIMER: I'm not telling you what to believe, just what I do. I'm not here to argue about my beliefs; they're just as likely to change as yours are. If you can't read, nod your head and say "Well, if that works for him, so be it," I advise you to simply move on to the next post.

1. God isn't someone or something.
2. God can't be experienced emotionally, physically, supernaturally or otherwise, but rather, must be experienced personally.
3. Trying to organize, classify and unify anyone's feelings about God is inherently wrong and should be regarded with caution and care, as it may be an attempt to control you.
4. No man, living or dead, is qualified to speak for, about, against, with or without God. Period. I realize that makes me a bit of a hypocrite, but I'm simply stating my beliefs.
5. If god were capable of and wanted to communicate with us through any means, he would do so in a clear, obvious, easily recognizable method.
6. God's purpose in the universe is not to test humanity.
7. God, if it is a conscious entity, is a hands-off deity. He/she/it does not guide, influence or otherwise interfere in series' of events. Think of it as if God were a bowler. He throws the ball, but can't physically go over the foul line. He can try to point the ball in the right direction, but if he misses, he's not going to run down the alley and kick down all the pins. Any circumstance or event where it seems that he does is just the result of a well-tossed ball. Or coincidence.
8. Every man, woman and child should be enabled to experience God on his or her own terms. No person should be told how to experience God. He or she should experience God in his or her own way. If this means going to church every Sunday, there are people who would see that as just as crazy as ritual human sacrifice. But just because you don't happen to agree with one person's method of experiencing God doesn't mean you should try to force him into yours.
9. The only people qualified to say what happens after death are dead people.
10. No matter what, no matter who you are, no matter what books you read, no matter what TV shows you watch, no matter how much personal insight or intellect you may have in to the spiritual realm, there's always the very distinct, very likely possibility that you are absolutely as miserably, 100% wrong as the guy next to you. Of course, that applies to me, as well. I'm willing to admit that - are you?

That's it in a nutshell. It's about as fluid as it gets and may change from day to day, or even minute to minute, as I personally reflect, meditate and think upon how I perceive my life, the world, the universe and... Well, everything.

Again your try and over simplify it, because it makes it sound totally outrageous. Its pretty pathetic attempt to write someone else's belief off in such a manner.It pretty much sums up what Christianity is based on, though. Christianity really is that simple.

So the mythology's a little different, the god of Christians is the god of Jews is the god of Muslims is one of the gods of Caanites.

Yahweh = El = Allah.That's not entirely accurate. Only in Jewish and Christian belief are Yah(weh) and El the same god.
And Allah (al-Ilah) only means "the god" and refers to the same Jewish/Christian entity, just as Christians use just "God" to refer to their, um, target of belief.

Yes.

JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD.You know, believing in (a) God is one thing, but claiming that a particular human is the son of a god is something that requires evidence. Have any?

I hate how people try to over simplify God as the magical man in the sky.

Might as well call evolution the magical monkey-man method.

But that would be stupid. WHy?

1) It over simplifies the idea into something that it isn't
2) Its purely stupid.

When you get past the idea of Yahweh being just an imaginary guy in the sky, and realize what He really is, then you can begin to see His true nature.You only say that because you can't break down the building blocks of your own belief. And stop spreading lies about who Yahweh is. Your emotional attachment to a fabricated deity is pure vanity.

Like I said, that God is Yeshua, also known as Yaweh, el shadai, el, adonai, etc etc. Do you worship Jesus then? Because if not, then we don't worship the same God.So you say that although YHVH and Allah are the same because they are what is referred to as the God Of Abraham, yet they are not the same because Christians believe that Yeshua is an incarnation of YHVH which Muslims do not believe in. Do you even get how how your "logic" fails?

How so? We believe that Yeshua, is Yaweh in human form. We worship Yeshua as our God, you worship Allah. Totally different mate.You do know what Arabic Christians call their God? The biblical God? Exactly: Allah. See, you don't even know the very basics of what you want to teach others about.

your try and over simplify it, because it makes it sound totally outrageous
That's because, to many of us, the concept is totally outrageous.

Yes I do. I also believe that Jesus is the son of God or the physical manifestation of him. Having said that I don't believe there's one true religion. I have respect for any religion that preaches to love other as brothers. That goes for atheists. I think too often Christians focus too much on Jesus' death rather than his life and what his message was. If I'm wrong and there is no God or he's something different from the Bible, I'll be content knowing that I tried to leave positive proof of my existence.

Why do you believe in god or don't?Edwardis??

Yes I do. I also believe that Jesus is the son of God or the physical manifestation of him. Having said that I don't believe there's one true religion. I have respect for any religion that preaches to love other as brothers. That goes for atheists. I think too often Christians focus too much on Jesus' death rather than his life and what his message was. If I'm wrong and there is no God or he's something different from the Bible, I'll be content knowing that I tried to leave positive proof of my existence.His message was: submit or go to hell.

Yes. I believe in God.

Yes. I believe in God.In the Lunatic Godballs?

His message was: submit or go to hell.

I don't think so. If it was, it was emphasized by early believers to gain followers and prevent followers from going astray.

In the Lunatic Godballs?

I'm living proof He has a sense of humor. :)

I don't think so. If it was, it was emphasized by early believers to gain followers and prevent followers from going astray."I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me" That's a threat. It says: if you don't believe you are worthless and may as well die (or go to hell, which is practically the same in this particular context). That's an attitude Christians have held on to throughout their history.

The nice thing about being Pagan is that if we happen to adopt an Imaginary Friend™ that says, "Kill anyone who doesn't believe in and follow Me," we can go "Fuck you, Charley" and find another Imaginary Friend™.

"I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me" That's a threat. It says: if you don't believe you are worthless and may as well die (or go to hell, which is practically the same in this particular context). That's an attitude Christians have held on to throughout their history.
True but this was about personal beliefs. I personally don't believe that the Bible as the literal word of God, hence the Gospel isn't literal either. I also don't believe in hell, maybe even heaven.

True but this was about personal beliefs. I personally don't believe that the Bible as the literal word of God, hence the Gospel isn't literal either. I also don't believe in hell, maybe even heaven.Then what is your belief based on, if not the bible? Because without it you wouldn't believe in the biblical god or his son/incarnation. There is no other source.

I´m an atheist. God is for those who can´t stand the fact that life is cruel and rarely fair. It is for those that can´t stand the idea that their life will some day end and never continue anymore in any form. That is my viewpoint of any religion.

Then what is your belief based on, if not the bible? Because without it you wouldn't believe in the biblical god or his son/incarnation. There is no other source.
Its based on the Bible as whole, Old and New Testament, and the history of humans trying to understand who or what God is. Its also a matter of faith which you can't dispute.

Its based on the Bible, Old and New Testament, and the history of humans trying to understand who or what God is. Its also a matter of faith which you can't dispute.But faith does not fall from the skies, it is based on something. So why do you base your faith on the bible while you don't believe in its accuracy?

of course I belive in God and Gods an Englishman well he always talk to me in English

But faith does not fall from the skies, it is based on something. So why do you base your faith on the bible while you don't believe in its accuracy?

Because the Bible is inaccurate as a historical text. Most of it was written by authors decades or sometimes centuries after the events had occurred. Also as every author had a different message it's skewed towards whatever they were trying to get across. So I have read a good portion of the Bible along with the history of events described and have come to my conclusion which is a matter at the end of it of spiritual faith.

I´m an atheist. God is for those who can´t stand the fact that life is cruel and rarely fair. It is for those that can´t stand the idea that their life will some day end and never continue anymore in any form. That is my viewpoint of any religion.

The following message is not intended to target the person I quote in specific, but to all atheist.

Certainly you can think that way. The question becomes, how often are you happy with that belief? Do you find happiness through the process of knowing that death means end and disappearing? If the result is all but the same, why live at all? Or do you find happiness by seeing yourself as more realistic and intelligent than religious people? That you are free to seek pleasures through your five senses as they are all that is for a human being?

That being said, I am pro choice. Certainly there's nothing wrong with you believing that way, but neither do people who choose to put faith onto religion and thereby gain emotional relief from this "cruel and rarely fair" world.

If people wish to have peace of mind, and if an external belief allows them to do so, I don't see why they should be consider as stupid for believing.

In regard to religion leading to violence and war. I do not believe religion cause wars, but rather people's greed and stupidity. People simply use religion as a propaganda device much like nationalism and racism.

Yes, I do believe in God..

No. There is no empirical evidence of a "god." Belief in something in the absence of evidence, in any other context, is called "stupidity." But when it comes to religion we call it "faith" and praise it as something worthwhile. It's just absurd.

The following message is not intended to target the person I quote in specific, but to all atheist.

Certainly you can think that way. The question becomes, how often are you happy with that belief? Do you find happiness through the process of knowing that death means end and disappearing? If the result is all but the same, why live at all? Or do you find happiness by seeing yourself as more realistic and intelligent than religious people? That you are free to seek pleasures through your five senses as they are all that is for a human being?

That being said, I am pro choice. Certainly there's nothing wrong with you believing that way, but neither do people who choose to put faith onto religion and thereby gain emotional relief from this "cruel and rarely fair" world.

If people wish to have peace of mind, and if an external belief allows them to do so, I don't see why they should be consider as stupid for believing.

In regard to religion leading to violence and war. I do not believe religion cause wars, but rather people's greed and stupidity. People simply use religion as a propaganda device much like nationalism and racism.

I´m happy without believing in God. Even though I see no actual purpose in life, that doesn´t stop me from enjoying it. Everything doesn´t need a purpose when it´s about spirtual things. I´m OK with dying, it is just the part when life ends. Stopping to exist doesn´t mean I should worry about it all the time, but more likely that the time I´m alive I should do what I feel correct. I don´t see myself more intellectual than anybody else, nor I think believers are stupid, but I think (I´m not sure about all the possible reasons why one believes in God) that it is hard for some believers to accept death and all things wrong in life. It was hard for me before I got over it and stopped believing in God.
I feel free towards followers of any religion. I´m not any sort of totalitarian who would like to execute all believers. If people can achieve a peace only by believing it is OK, I don´t want people feel bad because they don´t achieve peace of mind the same way I do. And I agree with you about the religious wars, it isn´t the religions causing it, but it´s just an excuse for a war.

The following message is not intended to target the person I quote in specific, but to all atheist.

Certainly you can think that way. The question becomes, how often are you happy with that belief? Do you find happiness through the process of knowing that death means end and disappearing? If the result is all but the same, why live at all? Or do you find happiness by seeing yourself as more realistic and intelligent than religious people? That you are free to seek pleasures through your five senses as they are all that is for a human being?

That being said, I am pro choice. Certainly there's nothing wrong with you believing that way, but neither do people who choose to put faith onto religion and thereby gain emotional relief from this "cruel and rarely fair" world.

If people wish to have peace of mind, and if an external belief allows them to do so, I don't see why they should be consider as stupid for believing.

In regard to religion leading to violence and war. I do not believe religion cause wars, but rather people's greed and stupidity. People simply use religion as a propaganda device much like nationalism and racism.

Happiness is no criterion. Atheists prefer reality.

Because the Bible is inaccurate as a historical text. Most of it was written by authors decades or sometimes centuries after the events had occurred. Also as every author had a different message it's skewed towards whatever they were trying to get across. So I have read a good portion of the Bible along with the history of events described and have come to my conclusion which is a matter at the end of it of spiritual faith.So if you don't trust the bible, then why do you trust it? "Spiritual faith" is nothing else than holding true what the bible conveys. In the end you are just picking what seems comfortable to you, right?

No. There is no empirical evidence of a "god." Belief in something in the absence of evidence, in any other context, is called "stupidity." But when it comes to religion we call it "faith" and praise it as something worthwhile. It's just absurd.

Well nobody who's alive know how it's like to be dead, nor are there any empirical evidence as to what happens to a persons consciousness upon death. Since nobody knows, why not just let people believe in whatever it is they want to believe in?

That being said, consider that many famous scientist, such as Einstein and Newton was in fact religious. It will take a lot of legitimacy to discredit them as stupid under "empirical evidence" and "science".

Even though I´m an atheist, I think those people are stupid who think religious people are stupid just because they believe in a higher power. Those people are pretending to be atheists just because they want to show off with their "superior intelligence".

Certainly you can think that way. The question becomes, how often are you happy with that belief? Do you find happiness through the process of knowing that death means end and disappearing? If the result is all but the same, why live at all? Or do you find happiness by seeing yourself as more realistic and intelligent than religious people? That you are free to seek pleasures through your five senses as they are all that is for a human being?

If people wish to have peace of mind, and if an external belief allows them to do so, I don't see why they should be consider as stupid for believing.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw

As for how I find happiness, I don't need to believe in an afterlife. Don't you see how much more beautiful existence is in knowing it's limited? Existence is like money: the less you have the more its worth, and that is why eternal life is worthless.
Also, people who believe to give themselves peace of mind aren;t really believers are they? If they know they only believe for that purpose, then deep down they know it's not true or at least doubtful.

Well nobody who's alive know how it's like to be dead, nor are there any empirical evidence as to what happens to a persons consciousness upon death. Since nobody knows, why not just let people believe in whatever it is they want to believe in?

That being said, consider that many famous scientist, such as Einstein and Newton was in fact religious. It will take a lot of legitimacy to discredit them as stupid under "empirical evidence" and "science".

Well, Einstein liked to sail despite not knowing how to swim and forgot his phone number and where he lived once. However, everyone has their stupid moments. Believing in something allegedly stupid doesn't suddenly make you completely stupid, though.

Besides, Einstein wasn't particularly religious.

Even though I´m an atheist, I think those people are stupid who think religious people are stupid just because they believe in a higher power. Those people are pretending to be atheists just because they want to show off with their "superior intelligence".

Agree. I also must say that religion must be taken with experience. I have read in a buddist literature about faith. It is not to believe or not believe, but rather the active seeking and verification. To choose to believe simply because someone told you to believe is nothing but blind faith. If a concept promises something, seek to verify it in real life. Upon verification a person will naturally believe it.

I find that important for all religion because yes, we might be reading the same scripture. It can be the Bible or anything. But how do you know you or your church's interpretation of it is in fact correct?

That is to say, if Jesus say "be kind to your neighbors", and if you do so and find happiness. You thereby have the evidence to what you believe in. If you are going to church simply because "you want to be a good person and go to heaven upon judgment day". You might want to reconsider your faith.

Well, Einstein liked to sail despite not knowing how to swim and forgot his phone number and where he lived once. However, everyone has their stupid moments. Believing in something allegedly stupid doesn't suddenly make you completely stupid, though.

Besides, Einstein wasn't particularly religious.
And Einstein is supposed to be an example for what exactly?

The question shouldn't be 'do you believe in god ?'
but
'do believe in the existence of god ?'
or even
'do you know that god exists ?'

If you answer no, then answering yes to the original question is a little hard.
If you answer yes, the choice to the original question is still totally open, whether God or god; without having to believe in Satan.

Personally, believe that God exists; much like I believe that George W Bush exists, but most certainly don't believe in either one.

Agree. I also must say that religion must be taken with experience. I have read in a buddist literature about faith. It is not to believe or not believe, but rather the active seeking and verification. To choose to believe simply because someone told you to believe is nothing but blind faith. If a concept promises something, seek to verify it in real life. Upon verification a person will naturally believe it.

I find that important for all religion because yes, we might be reading the same scripture. It can be the Bible or anything. But how do you know you or your church's interpretation of it is in fact correct?

That is to say, if Jesus say "be kind to your neighbors", and if you do so and find happiness. You thereby have the evidence to what you believe in. If you are going to church simply because "you want to be a good person and go to heaven upon judgment day". You might want to reconsider your faith.

Why would you need Jesus to be kind to your neighbors?

Well, Einstein liked to sail despite not knowing how to swim and forgot his phone number and where he lived once. However, everyone has their stupid moments. Believing in something allegedly stupid doesn't suddenly make you completely stupid, though.

Besides, Einstein wasn't particularly religious.

I am not trying to convince people to believe in a religion. I am simply suggesting that religion is a choice and are independent to the person's intelligence. Quite frankly we can all agree that we have seen smart and stupid people from both believers and nonbelievers.

The question shouldn't be 'do you believe in god ?'
but
'do believe in the existence of god ?'The question should be "what hints and evidence are there for the existence of the biblical god?".
Because what individual beliefs are is ultimately irrelevant. Only facts are interesting. I want to know about gods, and not what a human makes up in the mind.

I am not trying to convince people to believe in a religion. I am simply suggesting that religion is a choice and are independent to the person's intelligence.No, it surely isn't. It takes a certain lack of intelligence or willful ignorance to accept teachings without checking their origins and intellectual/ideological basis.

No, it surely isn't. It takes a certain lack of intelligence or willful ignorance to accept teachings without checking their origins and intellectual/ideological basis.

By your claim are you suggesting that all religious people are ignorant, and by not believing you are more intelligent than every religious person on earth?

That being said I believe the concept of death is far beyond human comprehension and to claim nothingness is no different from afterlife or reincarnation. It is just as far fetch and abstract as every after view in death. The whole concept to try to make sense of nothingness is a paradox in itself.

Ugh. Another one of these threads?

I'm on the fence when it comes to god but am leaning to the no side as time goes by. I think the question is a bit misleading. You can't mention god without bringing up religion. Then people start bickering about definitions and passages and names.

Religion and government have caused the most pain and suffering hands down. Just last night an american soldier who believed the lies of his govt was kill by suicide bomber who believed the lies of his religion. Both systems want control of the masses and both systems use god to do it. Unless you want me to believe that god created these systems to some how benefit us. If that is the case then god is a sick bastard.

It does not make sense that an all powerful god would be cruel. It makes more sense that the idea of god was created by man as a way to explain what we don't understand and don't have control over. People like the idea of having a father figure in control watching over them. Being in charge of themselves scares them.

Oh look a pile of shit. I think I will stir it.

no, because there is no reason to.

As near as we can tell, for aeons and millennia untold, humans have sought solace, meaning, direction and/or purpose in the realm of the mystical.

From tribal shaman and witch doctors to todays televangelists, there have been those charismatic individuals who understood that if they could convince the curious, the scared and the insecure that the answer to all of life's questions and problems could be found in the wisdom of certain methods of worship and behaviour, and that by servicing those desires in said population correctly they would be followed, become wealthy and basically rule the population.

It is no historical accident that any time such belief systems were in jeapordy from external forces, those with a vested power interest did anything and everything necessary to secure their position, from destruction of foreign culture and knowledge up to and including complete genocide.

Modern "Judeo-Christianity", for example, is rife with genocide, by its very own admission and teachings. All in the name of "preserving the religion".

The outrageous loss of ancient, possibly irreplacable knowlege such as the Library of Alexandria, the Codices of the Central American peoples, etc. are to be laid squarely at the feet of today's "compassionate religions."

The modern Jew and Christian feign outrage at the practices and methods of the modern Islamist, yet they are nothing short of hypocritical on these issues; Islam is simply repeating a well worn path carved out long ago in the mists of time by the religions from which it sprang........destroy the competition, and wipe out any authoritative trace that they ever existed.

Such is the way of "Organized Religion", as it seemingly always has been and most likely always will be.

No Organized Religion is any different from any other when one gets past the outside window dressing and takes an unbiased look at the machine within.

"Conquer, convert, merge and/or destroy the infidel, for my way is the ONLY way and every other path is damnation, desruction and heresy" is the underlying theme to each and every one, without exception.

The fact that there might be "degrees of throughness" between any and all of them is immeterial semantics. The facts are what they are.

To that end, "Is there a God" is a question that defies rational debate, for it immediately assumes a point of view that can have no rational basis.

Organized religion will be the ultimate end of the species. Indeed, there are certain doctrines that insist on that very outcome, to the point that the believers fervently work towards that very end game.

Organized Religion scares the hell out of me, and everyone else who would believe that "God" never intended for murder, genocide and the very destruction of mankind too be wrought is "His" name.

There. The "Shite Pot" has been given a thorough thrashing.

Flame away.

That's what I meant to say but my finger got stuck.:D

No. I refuse to believe in something completely imaginary just because a pack of bigots tells me to.

I definatly don't believe in God. I personaly think that believing in anything like religion causes more harm than good.

I used to believe in god when I was like 14 or 15. I don't know what struck my mind then but I'm glad I outgrew it. I stopped believing because it went against all reason I had.

I used to believe in god when I was like 14 or 15. I don't know what struck my mind then but I'm glad I outgrew it. I stopped believing because it went against all reason I had.Indeed.
Reason and knowledge are the archenemies of the Christian faith.

By your claim are you suggesting that all religious people are ignorant...?Yes, because they purposely ignore what history and archeology have to tell them. They put faith over fact, and that's what ignorant means, doesn't it.

Yes, because they purposely ignore what history and archeology have to tell them. They put faith over fact, and that's what ignorant means, doesn't it.

Ok i guess the last question I have is still the same one I been asking. What facts have show us about death? About what's before the big bang? And about what's beyond the End of Time (when all matters eventually deteriorates)? How can nothingness be calculated with mathematics or science in any way? And how does human comprehend nothingness when the very action of comprehension leads to something in itself?

I am not saying this because I want to prove you wrong in any way. I just want to know about the facts that answers those questions so religious people can use as a reference to atheism. Call me ignorant if you like but I don't know enough science or math that answers any of those questions.

So if you don't trust the bible, then why do you trust it? "Spiritual faith" is nothing else than holding true what the bible conveys. In the end you are just picking what seems comfortable to you, right?

Dude, we get it. You don't believe in God.

I believe in 'god', not as a force to be worshipped as most people see it, but as a force which governs all events - much like fate, really. Simply the 'thing' that keeps the universe ticking over.

Ok i guess the last question I have is still the same one I been asking. What facts have show us about death? About before the big bang? And about the End of Time (when all matters eventually deteriorates)? How can nothingness be calculated with mathematics or science in any way? And how does human comprehend nothingness when the very action of comprehension leads to something in itself?

I am not saying this because I want to prove you wrong in any way. I just want to know if about the facts that answers those questions so religious people can use as a reference to atheism.The answers to these questions (for now) is that there is no way of knowing. And admitting that is the right course of action, as opposed to inventing all kinds of illogical, unfounded, religiously motivated explanations to put weaker minds at ease. Science does not make claims about the issues of your questions at all, religion does. And if you cannot comprehend nothingness, then that's not my responsibility, is it? I can.

Dude, we get it. You don't believe in God.I don't believe in the biblical God.

I still don't get the point on why you're debating it so passionately. Live and let live like that Paul McCartney song said.

ok i belive in existentialist and sartre pointed out that we're totally free but we choose to deny it. A critical claim in existentialist thought is that we are always radically free to make choices and guide our lives towards our own chosen goal (or 'project'). We cannot escape this freedom, even in overwhelming circumstances. There are dedicated professionals of their respective moral codes - priests interpreting sacred scriptures, lawyers interpreting the Constitution, doctors interpreting the Hippocratic oath - should, instead of divesting the self of responsibility in the discharge of ones duties, be aware of ones own significance in the process This recognition involves the questioning of the morality of all choices, taking responsibility for the consequences of one's own choice and therefore; a constant reappraisal of one's own and others' ever-changing humanity. So God doesn't rule over me people only choose to believe in god in circumstances because, which I found also what Nietzsche said profound think about it: on Nietzsche's view, the fundamental self-betrayal of the human race is to submit its freedom to the ficticious demands of an imaginary god. Afraid to live by the strength of our own wills, we invent religion as a way of generating and then explaining our perpetual sense of being downtrodden and defeated in life.

I just want to say that it's been a fun discussion. But I also notice that I will be repeating myself if I go on so I guess I will stop here.

common people more responses

I am undecided on the question of existence. That does not just mean the Christian God, but also for instance the Hindu gods, the old Greco-Romanic, Egyptian and Norse pantheons, an "overmind" we all join when we die and so on and so on.

I however am quite certain that I would not worship the Abrahamic god even if I was convinced he existed, unless he could explain His ideas, laws and reasoning. On their own they seem far too repugnant.

Why do you believe in god or don't?

There is no 'why'.

I don't believe in god. Or ghosts. Or goblins. Or pixies. Or cattle-ripping aliens from Mars. Or the Loch Ness monster. Or Bigfoot.

I just don't believe in anything there is no proof for.

And - maybe just for me, I don't know - "wiki sez" just isn't convincing (enough) proof.

*Note*- "wiki sez" doesn't necessarily suggest that wiki (as in wikipedia) is the only source so treated - scripture is interchangable with 'wiki'.

Trilby63;13110403']You know Eris can be quite nice.. sometimes..

Discordian or Greco-Romanic Eris ;) ?

I am undecided on the question of existence. That does not just mean the Christian God, but also for instance the Hindu gods, the old Greco-Romanic, Egyptian and Norse pantheons, an "overmind" we all join when we die and so on and so on.

I however am quite certain that I would not worship the Abrahamic god even if I was convinced he existed, unless he could explain His ideas, laws and reasoning. On their own they seem far too repugnant.

You know Eris can be quite nice.. sometimes..

Trilby63;13110414']Which would you prefer?

I would worship neither. The Greco-Romanic however would be interesting to hunt down, while I might date the Discordian.

Discordian or Greco-Romanic Eris ;) ?

Which would you prefer?

Indeed.
Reason and knowledge are the archenemies of the Christian faith.

You're right, and that's why the church has done everything it can to fight it.

I have no problem with religion or religious people. They can keep believing in imaginary creatures/higher powers, as long as they keep their religious beliefs for themselves and don't infect society with them. But that's just wishful thinking. They are doing everything they can to enforce their beliefs on others and always have.

"the fundamental self-betrayal of the human race is to submit its freedom to the ficticious demands of an imaginary god. Afraid to live by the strength of our own wills, we invent religion as a way of generating and then explaining our perpetual sense of being downtrodden and defeated in life."

heck yes i do! The of Israel, of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is just so...amazing! there are so many arguements about how you can't see God or there's not proof.

TAKE ONE LOOK AROUND YOU! everything is his workmanship. now i don't want to be bashing you into believing my beliefs b/c people like give Christians the wrong name so just please be respectful and don't bash mine. As a world and as public and more so for my country, i believe people have the right to believe whatever they want. you can talk about it if you want to. but harrassment is still harrassment no matter what form. i've seen too many arguements about this go wrong and make EVERYONE look stupid, harsh, and hard-headed b/c it ended up being a yelling match with notes in all capslock and "uh-huh"nuhuh" arguements filling the page.

respectfully
Eden Lynn

raised christian, tried Islam and Daoism, then read the Horus Heresy novels and converted to Atheism...

power of literature, man.

I don't believe in god.
I don't believe because I cannot force myself to believe in something unbelievable.
Besides, even if I lie and pretend to believe, if he does exist I'm still going to hell because I'll never believe in him until he's casting me out of his presence.

An interesting fact:

75% of Americans are christians
75% of American prisoners are christians
10% of Americans are atheists
0.2% of American prisoners are atheists

(this is not to insult christians or praise atheists, I think it tells more about prisoners than christians/atheists over all)

How many converted in prison though ?

An interesting fact:

75% of Americans are christians
75% of American prisoners are christians
10% of Americans are atheists
0.2% of American prisoners are atheists

(this is not to insult christians or praise atheists, I think it tells more about prisoners than christians/atheists over all)

I believe in God as I am a Christian.

How can you not beleive in a "God"

At the least can you deny your own sentience, your own capacity to create, and your union with the world as a whole... and thus your union with god..

being one as the message of god, and the recipient of god's word (expression, meaning)

God is undeniable if you understand your own existance.

We are the will of god, as well we are the eye's, mouth and ear's of god.


We are all united in holiness.

heck yes i do! The of Israel, of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is just so...amazing! there are so many arguements about how you can't see God or there's not proof.

TAKE ONE LOOK AROUND YOU! everything is his workmanship. now i don't want to be bashing you into believing my beliefs b/c people like give Christians the wrong name so just please be respectful and don't bash mine. As a world and as public and more so for my country, i believe people have the right to believe whatever they want. you can talk about it if you want to. but harrassment is still harrassment no matter what form. i've seen too many arguements about this go wrong and make EVERYONE look stupid, harsh, and hard-headed b/c it ended up being a yelling match with notes in all capslock and "uh-huh"nuhuh" arguements filling the page.

respectfully
Eden Lynn

I agree with you in that there is plenty of amazing things all around us, but the problem is that you can´t proof some higher power has made all that. If there was text "God Corporation (TM), made in Heaven" that would be pretty good proof, but I´ve never seen that text in any tree, rock or animal.

Religion = Excuse for morons to kill smart people
My opinion on religious fanatics = :upyours:

I agree with you in that there is plenty of amazing things all around us, but the problem is that you can´t proof some higher power has made all that. If there was text "God Corporation (TM), made in Heaven" that would be pretty good proof, but I´ve never seen that text in any tree, rock or animal.

There really are some beautiful things... if any one thing could ever convince me in the existence of God, it'd be the Aurora... but since I know what causes that, and I don't believe God is the sun... y'know.... yeah.

There really are some beautiful things... if any one thing could ever convince me in the existence of God, it'd be the Aurora... but since I know what causes that, and I don't believe God is the sun... y'know.... yeah.

Why not ? Millions of people throughout history have worshipped the sun or sungods - and it does make some sense. After all, without the sun photosynthesis would be somewhat rarer, earth would be a bit colder and nights would last noticeably longer.
Oh, and our existence would be a tiny bit more non-existence ;)

which god are we talking about?

Me! Duh! All these people posting about the "Abrahamic God" and "Jehova" and all this bull crap are no better than the pagans their ancestors slaughtered, since none of them recognize me as the one and only God. I created the universe and know exactly what they are doing, thinking, seeing, hearing at every second of their lives yet they still refuse to acknowledge me as the one only true god.

Well, I hope this little tid-bit of sarcasm demonstrates how creepy it would be to for God as seen in such hit classics as The Old Testament and The New Testament to exist.

To answer the original question, no, I don't. Not even some kind of formless, unintelligent, creator force that permeates the entire universe. If something like that does exist, I would hate to give such a stupid name like God. E.g., Trevor, Samantha, or Paper Weight would be much better names.

I think what it is is that people don't understand what the word god means, and rather have false conceptions, such as god is only what is expressed in a book or god is something we are all subject to etc...

God means something which is representative of an idea, different cultures have different views of dieties. Even JudeoChristian beleif has historically shifted in meaning.

Monotheistic God's etc.. are seen as at the top of a heirarchy.. so to in polytheistic relgions.. it is just who holds the ultimate control or capacity.


But God gives meaning to everything.. if you know anything then you have beleif in some power.. it is just a question of what form you give that god, can you tie that into a human concept or is it left an animal or other symbol, peakok sickle.. they are all idols, or place holders.. for the jews they have an idea that is all present or otherwise.

To deny a god is to say there is no meaning, form or purpose.

It is just that I think some people are put off by the word god because it is tied into a whole bunch of otherwise boring and seen as wasteful practices in the western christian world. (for many youth who see religion as preaching against fun things like irresponsibility, killing and illegal acts.

How can you not beleive in a "God"

At the least can you deny your own sentience, your own capacity to create, and your union with the world as a whole... and thus your union with god..

being one as the message of god, and the recipient of god's word (expression, meaning)

God is undeniable if you understand your own existance.

We are the will of god, as well we are the eye's, mouth and ear's of god.


We are all united in holiness.

Sentience is a result of complex electrical signals... why does this prove the existence of God?


Why not ? Millions of people throughout history have worshipped the sun or sungods - and it does make some sense. After all, without the sun photosynthesis would be somewhat rarer, earth would be a bit colder and nights would last noticeably longer.
Oh, and our existence would be a tiny bit more non-existence ;)

Yeps, I get all of that, the sun is a wonderous thing, but I don't believe it's god in the beneficent, omniscient intellect, as a creator and sustainer of our lives perhaps, but I do not believe the sun is sentient... although I couldn't be sure as I've never spoken with it...

To deny a god is to say there is no meaning, form or purpose.

Why must there be meaning or purpose ?
And there can be form without God.

I agree with you in that there is plenty of amazing things all around us, but the problem is that you can´t proof some higher power has made all that. If there was text "God Corporation (TM), made in Heaven" that would be pretty good proof, but I´ve never seen that text in any tree, rock or animal.



well i believe in the bible. and honestly? i have issues believing that the world suddenly just "poofed" and there we were. and even less that at some point i have an accestor as a monkey. not working for me.
God has done too many miracle in my life not to believe.

And is life just stimulus response.. FOR ME HELL NO.. life is more then cause and effect.. there is more to life then just a response.. I am not an atomic playboy.

Sentience is a result of complex electrical signals... why does this prove the existence of God?




Yeps, I get all of that, the sun is a wonderous thing, but I don't believe it's god in the beneficent, omniscient intellect, as a creator and sustainer of our lives perhaps, but I do not believe the sun is sentient... although I couldn't be sure as I've never spoken with it...

well i believe in the bible. and honestly? i have issues believing that the world suddenly just "poofed" and there we were. and even less that at some point i have an accestor as a monkey

So have scientists ;) The scenario you describe is only used by religious people that try to discredit science by painting a false picture. If you were taught this version by a teacher or priest you should ask them why they told you lies, despite the Bible stating that liars are by definition followers of Satan.

That aside - what makes the Biblical story the best alternative ?

YOU ARE NONSENSICAL WITHOUT IT, you might as well spend your time wanking if you don't think we should be objective towards sustaining meaning or realizing a purpose in life.

Sure, but I choose to do otherwise. I make my own purpose.
Does that make me a God ?

To deny a god is to say there is no meaning, form or purpose.

Why? There is meaning, form and purpose in everything... knowing that doesn't mean I have to worship anything.

What amazes me is that people claim God doesn't exist or doesn't matter, but everyone wants to weigh in on it. Having read this entire thread, I can only say: sometimes humans embarrass me.

Why must there be meaning or purpose ?
And there can be form without God.

YOU ARE NONSENSICAL WITHOUT IT, you might as well spend your time wanking if you don't think we should be objective towards sustaining meaning or realizing a purpose in life.

Personally I don't like needles force injected into my posterior on a regular basis.

I'M NOT A VEGETABLE. ALSO ENTHROPY IS A WASTE OF TIME IN A WORLD OF PLENTY.


THERE IS NO FORM WITHOUT GOD.. you must deny the meaning of god to say things exist in form without a creator. (sustainer) see hinduism.

What amazes me is that people claim God doesn't exist or doesn't matter, but everyone wants to weigh in on it.

But of course. God may or may not exist, but believers certainly do. And they influence my daily life quite directly.
Besides - pondering big questions is fun.

p.s. science is theory, it isn't "real" until you beleive in what could be. Obviously if someone can demonstrate physics or chemistry then it must be real.. but holdon what is your basis, what is your objective.. are you mearly a programmed selfish robot serving someone with a purpose and plans goal.. are you mindlessly wandering around just because of something nice you see on TV, but beyond that who cares?

whatever. I'm guessing your answer is yes.


"all time is not accounted for, it never will be until time stops.. science has been a progressive and changing study in history that measures occurence in a time system believed to be temporal.. hell I guess it feels that way to you.. afterall it is the social norm.. can't go wrong with that even if it has no working foundation other than.. hey good for me. No argument there." What is real, the full story, is not necessarily the little piece within the story, but if your content with the piece who needs the story. I don't live in a static reality, I live in an emotive reality.

Sentience is a result of complex electrical signals... why does this prove the existence of God?






Yeps, I get all of that, the sun is a wonderous thing, but I don't believe it's god in the beneficent, omniscient intellect, as a creator and sustainer of our lives perhaps, but I do not believe the sun is sentient... although I couldn't be sure as I've never spoken with it...

And is life just stimulus response.. FOR ME HELL NO.. life is more then cause and effect.. there is more to life then just a response.. I am not an atomic playboy.

To accept the truth doesn't make you a robot, it just makes you aware, we have free will as a result of sentience which is a result of electricalblahblahyada... just because it starts with simple things, this doesn't mean that we simply follow the routes pre-programmed into our mind.

Once again, this XKCD (http://xkcd.com/) strip is appropiate:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/nihilism.png

heck yes i do! The of Israel, of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is just so...amazing!

I find it repulsive that God would play favoritism with one region of the world. Why is Israel holier (and worth blowing oneself up in the middle of crowded marketplaces) than anywhere else? Shoudn't all of God's creation be just as holy as anywhere else? God's a racist b@st@rd, in my opinion. Why is every major prophet of the Abrahamic religions a Semite (a broad Middle Eastern ethnic group, incorporating both Jews and Arabs, as well as many others)?????

Why would it be that the truth of God word had to be spread at the tip of a sword throughout the colonial empires of western civilizations? Why would God not have prophets for everywhere in the world so we could all agree on religion and cambat Satan as one united people of Earth?

There are two responses I know of to this argument. One is called Mormonism: certain Jews after the Bablonian Captivity sailed to the New World after a voyage of mulitple generations and spread the word of the Abarahamic god thoughout the Americas rather peacefully. Then when Jesus came along in the Middle East, his second coming was in the Americas where the message of Christianity was spread, one again peacefully. But evil, Satanic Indians came along and killed all the good Christians before Columbus arived. Therefore, the Chrisitan World is obligated to spread the truth and combat Satan, who is the lone source of dissdent religions.

The second response is called Atheism. I ascribe to that one.

Now, I know there must be some kind of middle ground that 2 billion humans stand on. Will some one please inform me?

YOU ARE NONSENSICAL WITHOUT IT, you might as well spend your time wanking if you don't think we should be objective towards sustaining meaning or realizing a purpose in life.

Personally I don't like needles force injected into my posterior on a regular basis.

I'M NOT A VEGETABLE. ALSO ENTHROPY IS A WASTE OF TIME IN A WORLD OF PLENTY.


THERE IS NO FORM WITHOUT GOD.. you must deny the meaning of god to say things exist in form without a creator. (sustainer) see hinduism.

You give yourself purpose.
Then don't take needles (needless?) force.
It's true, but entropy is a scientific fact, let it waste as much time as it wishes and get on with your own life.
I just made a little bugdie out of paper... am I god now?

To accept the truth doesn't make you a robot, it just makes you aware, we have free will as a result of sentience which is a result of electricalblahblahyada... just because it starts with simple things, this doesn't mean that we simply follow the routes pre-programmed into our mind.

What truth are you talking about science is theory not truth. If you don't agree then you don't know science..

We arn't just our bodies..nor are we only responsible for the acts of our limbs.. we are our creations, which is not just what exists in a material or physical world. There is more to life than atoms.

You give yourself purpose.
Then don't take needles (needless?) force.
It's true, but entropy is a scientific fact, let it waste as much time as it wishes and get on with your own life.
I just made a little bugdie out of paper... am I god now?

Congratulations on the budgie. You don't need to ask if you know..

the fundamental self-betrayal of the human race is to submit its freedom to the ficticious demands of an imaginary god. Afraid to live by the strength of our own wills, we invent religion as a way of generating and then explaining our perpetual sense of being downtrodden and defeated in life.

the fundamental self-betrayal of the human race is to submit its freedom to the ficticious demands of an imaginary god. Afraid to live by the strength of our own wills, we invent religion as a way of generating and then explaining our perpetual sense of being downtrodden and defeated in life.

p.s. science is theory, it isn't "real" until you beleive in what could be. Obviously if someone can demonstrate physics or chemistry then it must be real.. but holdon what is your basis, what is your objective.. are you mearly a programmed selfish robot serving someone with a purpose and plans goal.. are you mindlessly wandering around just because of something nice you see on TV, but beyond that who cares?

whatever. I'm guessing your answer is yes.


"all time is not accounted for, it never will be until time stops.. science has been a progressive and changing study in history that measures occurence in a time system believed to be temporal.. hell I guess it feels that way to you.. afterall it is the social norm.. can't go wrong with that even if it has no working foundation other than.. hey good for me. No argument there." What is real, the full story, is not necessarily the little piece within the story, but if your content with the piece who needs the story. I don't live in a static reality, I live in an emotive reality.

Yes, it's true, science is mostly theory, but it's better than saying "God did it!" and pointing off into the sky, and a lot of people claim that things that are demonstrable aren't real so that doesn't necessarily count.
As far as I can see, believing in God and that "he has a purpose" is far closer to believing we're robots than believing we're here by evolution and luck... and on that point, robots aren't selfish as they do what they do by their programming with no thought or desire for their own self.

Aaaand my answer is no, I am a human being, a member of the Kingdom Animalia, of the Phylum Chordata, of the Class Mammalia, of the Order Primates, of the Family Hominidae, of the Genus Homo (omgs teh gay:rolleyes: ) of the Species H. sapiens... yada yada.
I am not a machine, I am not a number, I am not a thread in some divine plan, I am an individual, capable of free thought within the extent of my knowledges and experiences.

To believe in science is not to believe in nothing.

What truth are you talking about science is theory not truth. If you don't agree then you don't know science..

We arn't just our bodies..nor are we only responsible for the acts of our limbs.. we are our creations, which is not just what exists in a material or physical world. There is more to life than atoms.

Sometimes you have to use certain words in order to make people listen.
Many people believe that because God IS real and that Science MAY BE real, that God trumps Science.
It's true that the majority of scientific ideas are just ideas without total proof... but God has no proof beyond the bible and even if once it was the pure word of God, it's been translated so much that it counts for nothing.
Yes there is more to life than atoms, there's less to life than atoms as well but I never claimed that life is atoms, nor would anyone with a brain.

I find it repulsive that God would play favoritism with one region of the world. Why is Israel holier (and worth blowing oneself up in the middle of crowded marketplaces) than anywhere else? Shoudn't all of God's creation be just as holy as anywhere else? God's a racist b@st@rd, in my opinion. Why is every major prophet of the Abrahamic religions a Semite (a broad Middle Eastern ethnic group, incorporating both Jews and Arabs, as well as many others)?????

Why would it be that the truth of God word had to be spread at the tip of a sword throughout the colonial empires of western civilizations? Why would God not have prophets for everywhere in the world so we could all agree on religion and cambat Satan as one united people of Earth?

There are two responses I know of to this argument. One is called Mormonism: certain Jews after the Bablonian Captivity sailed to the New World after a voyage of mulitple generations and spread the word of the Abarahamic god thoughout the Americas rather peacefully. Then when Jesus came along in the Middle East, his second coming was in the Americas where the message of Christianity was spread, one again peacefully. But evil, Satanic Indians came along and killed all the good Christians before Columbus arived. Therefore, the Chrisitan World is obligated to spread the truth and combat Satan, who is the lone source of dissdent religions.

The second response is called Atheism. I ascribe to that one.

Now, I know there must be some kind of middle ground that 2 billion humans stand on. Will some one please inform me?



but you have to understand that He's not. if you read the bible it says that god has chosen the jews to be his chosen people. we're all chosen if we except God into our hearts and believe he died for us, but God picked them b/c throughout history and forevermore the jew will be the persecuted ones. always from the beginning of time, a common one people know of is the holocaust, to RIGHT NOW as i write this. all of it is just to prove his love, mercy and grace.

we can't know everything that God's thinking or the plans that he has, b/c if we did he wouldn't be God anymore. but believing give's a purpose by the way i see it. His unconditional love is ..just amazing. it blows my mind.

Sometimes you have to use certain words in order to make people listen.
Many people believe that because God IS real and that Science MAY BE real, that God trumps Science.
It's true that the majority of scientific ideas are just ideas without total proof... but God has no proof beyond the bible and even if once it was the pure word of God, it's been translated so much that it counts for nothing.
Yes there is more to life than atoms, there's less to life than atoms as well but I never claimed that life is atoms, nor would anyone with a brain.

I think you have an ignorant view. The idea of god is not confined to the Bible or Judeo Christian Practice.

p.s. worship is intentful attention nothing more, when you read a book or play a video grame intentionally you are "worshipping" it is just the colour of that worship.. that is what emotion you lend to the activity.. that is worship.. it is once again very orthodox and dogmatic systems that have overtaken the meaning of worship.

But worship is not just a mass.. it is everything.. it what we focus on.

What our focus is, is what we value, what we value is what we praise, unless we are enslaved and forced against so said our will to perform acts and support ideas we don't support..

it is all worship, the stamp of "this is god" is part of orthadoxy but not a universal notion religion just isn't on sunday it is everyday, you may or may not have it neiched into your view of religion though..

worship is ongoing not just when we go.. ok now I'll pray to god because it is a seperate activity that isn't based on an material or physical god.


While orthadox and some muslim faiths abandoned ICON worship remove the material or house of worship or statue or otherwise.. from their practice Roman Catholics and other religions continued Icon worship as part of their practice...

objectivism is that people have an innate feeling that religion is beyond daily activity,, but religion from other cultures is a reminder of the meaning and methods of living.. gods of trades and skills and arts etc.. rather than a god of god.



If we are sentient we worship. It is just a question of what we choose to worship, what we choose to value. It is god because our activities compose who we are as much as our creations shape the world around us, and once again give life to us.

Of course there is a step beyond creation and experience, but speaking of it, is more easily known than expressed since it is everywhere spoken already.

but you have to understand that He's not. if you read the bible it says that god has chosen the jews to be his chosen people. we're all chosen if we except God into our hearts and believe he died for us, but God picked them b/c throughout history and forevermore the jew will be the persecuted ones. always from the beginning of time, a common one people know of is the holocaust, to RIGHT NOW as i write this. all of it is just to prove his love, mercy and grace.

we can't know everything that God's thinking or the plans that he has, b/c if we did he wouldn't be God anymore. but believing give's a purpose by the way i see it. His unconditional love is ..just amazing. it blows my mind.

Poor bastards.

http://satirewire.com/news/march02/chosen.shtml

Are you saying that God's love, mercy and grace is proven by deliberately inflicting persecution on his chosen people; or, alternatively, to make up for all the torture and genocide, 'choosing' a group as consolation? (which doesn't make any difference in the end, really)

heck yes i do! The of Israel, of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is just so...amazing! there are so many arguements about how you can't see God or there's not proof.

TAKE ONE LOOK AROUND YOU! everything is his workmanship.

Why is it 'his' workmanship?

That's the problem with that 'proof'... it is as good an evidence for Horus, pixies, or aliens, as it is for the 'Abrahamic god'. Better even - because at least the other options don't have allegedly 'dictated' texts that contradict each other.

p.s. science is theory, it isn't "real" until you beleive in what could be.

For something to be a theory in science it has to have substantial proof and it needs to be testable. Newton's laws on gravity are scientific theories while the proper scientific term for let's say, creationism, would be "horseshit you brainwash your kids with". So do you believe in the laws of gravity? Because if you don't, they clearly aren't real, right???

well i believe in the bible. and honestly? i have issues believing that the world suddenly just "poofed" and there we were. and even less that at some point i have an accestor as a monkey. not working for me.


1) Show me one scientist who says "the world suddenly just "poofed" and there we were" or "i have an accestor as a monkey".

2) Just because you don't like it or believe it... don't make it untrue.

3) The world is shaped from nothing, and we are descended from mud... that works better somehow?


4) Even if there IS a god, and he/she/it did create the universe... why THAT one?

And is life just stimulus response.. FOR ME HELL NO.. life is more then cause and effect.. there is more to life then just a response..

You obviously feel a need to believe this.

Unfortunately... whether or not you WANT it to be true, will ultimately not change whether or not it IS true.

I think you have an ignorant view. The idea of god is not confined to the Bible or Judeo Christian Practice.

[Snippety]

You can think what you like.
I am aware that there are many different names and costumes for God, and that sometimes it turns into many different little gods, kinda like one of those russians dolls that you see sometimes.

Due to the fact that the word worship has been bastardised by the use of the abrahamic religions the word is often used in a way which is divorced from it's true meaning, as with many other words. This is an effect of the way language evolves.

I have never once claimed that religious people decide to have a slot in their diaries where they will worship and then forget about God outside of that... I don't actually recall using the word worship either, although I may have done, I'm not entirely sure. Nor have I ever mentioned Sundays in this thread, I know this for a fact.

I think you have an ignorant view. My argument is not confined to the Bible or Judeo Christian Practice. I've simply been using them in my argument because it seems that most (not all, maybe not even more than 50%) of the religious people on this forum are or Christian, Jewish or Islamic faith and so I don't see why I need to dispute every single religion at the same time.

I don't believe in God, in any God, in your God, in their God, whatever, I don't believe. This is not due to willful ignorance on my part, it's merely my inability to lie to myself.

p.s. science is theory, it isn't "real" until you beleive in what could be.


If you think 'theory' is a negative connotation, you really don't understand science.

"all time is not accounted for, it never will be until time stops..

Which is what makes the idea of a truth 'carved in stone' so ridiculous.

There is more to life than atoms.

There is?

Prove it.

1) Show me one scientist who says "the world suddenly just "poofed" and there we were" or "i have an accestor as a monkey".

2) Just because you don't like it or believe it... don't make it untrue.

3) The world is shaped from nothing, and we are descended from mud... that works better somehow?


4) Even if there IS a god, and he/she/it did create the universe... why THAT one?

A friend of mine likes to think that God was just playing around and was tinkering with things and adding little things on and taking them off, like you or I would if we were making some kind of clay model or something, just to see, for the joy of experiencing it, and this is their idea for evolution... a bit like intelligent design but more inquisitive design... I always want to point out that (his) God already knows everything and that it doesn't really make much sense...

Do you believe in God?

Nope, can't say I do.

I can't say I'm certain he doesn't exist, anyway. I'll never understand atheism any more than theism; the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Hence my agnosticism: I freely admit I don't believe in God's existence, but that is just that, a belief, and wouldn't go as far as to present it as fact.

I'm personally a believer in the Invisible Pink Unicorn.

Well nobody who's alive know how it's like to be dead, nor are there any empirical evidence as to what happens to a persons consciousness upon death. Since nobody knows, why not just let people believe in whatever it is they want to believe in?

There is plenty of empirical evidence that consciousness is a function of the brain, in which case consciousness can reasonably be expected to end with the cessation of brain functions, i.e. death.

That being said, consider that many famous scientist, such as Einstein and Newton was in fact religious. It will take a lot of legitimacy to discredit them as stupid under "empirical evidence" and "science".

Einstein was a pantheist who considered the idea of a personal God or an afterlife to be ridiculous.

Newton also believed in alchemy and numerology; maybe they were reasonable beliefs at the time, but that doesn't make them any less silly today, no?

I am not trying to convince people to believe in a religion. I am simply suggesting that religion is a choice and are independent to the person's intelligence. Quite frankly we can all agree that we have seen smart and stupid people from both believers and nonbelievers.

Certainly, but as Michael Shermer has pointed out in his book Why People Believe Weird Things, just because intelligent people believe something doesn't make it an intelligent position. Intelligent people often come to believe things for emotional reasons and then use their superior intelligence to find elaborate justifications for their beliefs (Holocaust Deniers and Young Earth Creationists are excellent examples).

Yes, but no one else should. Because believing in god is stupid and retarded. Anyone who believes in god should be shot. Or, at the very least, lynched.

I don't believe in any gods but I'm willing to reconsider if I'm given good reason to. I do think some religions seem more likely to be true than others (Islam makes a lot more sense than Christianity on an intellectual level for example).

What amazes me is that people claim God doesn't exist or doesn't matter, but everyone wants to weigh in on it. Having read this entire thread, I can only say: sometimes humans embarrass me.

God doesn't matter, but religion does. ;):p

If God is Mr. T, then yes.

I find it repulsive that God would play favoritism with one region of the world.

If God's idea of 'favouritism' is leading a group around a desert for forty years then dumping them in the only part of the Middle East with no oil then I'm glad I'm not one of his favourites. :D:)

No, I do not follow any religion. As a child, I was Christian, even though my parents were Buddhists (they told me later that it was all about learning to do good and it wasn't important how I learned it) and later on when I was a preteen/early teenager, I identified myself as Buddhist.

To me, I think mostly it was just an activity to do, like a game of sorts that I could play. When I was 17, I briefly got into tarot and other similar related things and then one day it really hit me. While I was doing a reading for myself, I realized again that it was just a game, that I was foolish and I was actually allowing a pack of cards to govern my life.

Ever since that time, I've always put a lot of emphasis into thought and thinking powerfully and efficiently and the progression of one's self through one's self. Why waste all that faith into something that was probably made, whether it was intentional or unintentional, to control your way of life when you could put that faith into empowering yourself. Why can we not strive to be as a god?

If you plan to lynch everyone who believes silly things then there won't be many people left.

Then the Correct will rule the earth.


...and there will be no more timewarps

Yes, but no one else should. Because believing in god is stupid and retarded. Anyone who believes in god should be shot. Or, at the very least, lynched.

If you plan to lynch everyone who believes silly things then there won't be many people left.

I defy your materialist theories of time! :p

If the Correct rule, nothing would go wrong. The Correct would ensure that. We must make sure the Correct are the ones ruling in the future, and not the Incorrect.

Therefore, we must make efforts to eliminate the Incorrect from society.

And then timewarps would not exist.

Then the Correct will rule the earth.


...and there will be no more timewarps

I defy your materialist theories of time! :p

Well nobody who's alive know how it's like to be dead, nor are there any empirical evidence as to what happens to a persons consciousness upon death. Since nobody knows, why not just let people believe in whatever it is they want to believe in?

That being said, consider that many famous scientist, such as Einstein and Newton was in fact religious. It will take a lot of legitimacy to discredit them as stupid under "empirical evidence" and "science".
Einstein: "I do not believe in a personal God and have never denied this but expressed it most clearly."
"The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naive."

Believe in God if you must, but please don't lie to support your side, or somebody will call you on it. We're not all that stupid, you know.

well i believe in the bible. and honestly? i have issues believing that the world suddenly just "poofed" and there we were. and even less that at some point i have an accestor as a monkey. not working for me.
God has done too many miracle in my life not to believe.
You fail science. Hard.

Once again, this XKCD (http://xkcd.com/) strip is appropiate:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/nihilism.png

xkcd is ALWAYS appropriate. :D

here is my reasoning on a God or Gods excisting(sp)

throughout history there has been religion in most recorded societies. There has been few groups of atheists that lived in a society together. So by sense that how could that many people be wrong about something the world over believes in. The Hindu's had no contact with the Aztecs, but they believe in multiple gods that rule the world. The Greeks had little to no contact with the Norse, but they believed in a place where the gods lived. Be the places or the gods named different that is just their society giving them names like how a middle class white family wouldn't name their son Jiha-daam because it is not their societal norm. So why would their gods have similar names. The point is that there are so many instances where there is a god or gods to the instances there aren't, I find it hard to believe that so many people through out the history of mankind could be wrong about something, when so few people could be right.

in my opinion

If an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god existed, it would not have allowed this thread to manifest itself yet again.
An omnipotent god would have foreseen it;
an omnipotent god would have been able to prevent it;
an omnibenevolent god would want to prevent it.

............I find it hard to believe that so many people through out the history of mankind could be wrong about something, when so few people could be right.

in my opinion

Really?

Let's see, what are things that "so many people through out the history of mankind" so fervently believed........

A flat Earth.

An Earth-Centric Universe.

Dragons eating virgins.

Socialism and Communism as sustainable, successful social constructs.

42 virgin camels as a reward for making one's self into technicolor bomb splatter.

:headbang:

No, I don't. But I'm going to let you figure out for yourself why you shouldn't believe. You learn more that way.

here is my reasoning on a God or Gods excisting(sp)

throughout history there has been religion in most recorded societies. There has been few groups of atheists that lived in a society together. So by sense that how could that many people be wrong about something the world over believes in. The Hindu's had no contact with the Aztecs, but they believe in multiple gods that rule the world. The Greeks had little to no contact with the Norse, but they believed in a place where the gods lived. Be the places or the gods named different that is just their society giving them names like how a middle class white family wouldn't name their son Jiha-daam because it is not their societal norm. So why would their gods have similar names. The point is that there are so many instances where there is a god or gods to the instances there aren't, I find it hard to believe that so many people through out the history of mankind could be wrong about something, when so few people could be right.

in my opinion

Opinions are useful things. they make us individual.

Unfortunately, they are worth nothing to anyone but you.

It may be of interest you to know that 'fairy' stories exist (and have existed) in more cultures than god stories.

So - fairies must be real too, right?

I prefer the Shaivite world view about god(s)... :D

I beleive in God. *hi fives Soviestan*

btw, are you fasting?

There is?

Prove it.

<3 ya man!

Religion = Excuse for morons to kill smart people


...then if the smart people truly *are* smart, they should infiltrate and malign the intent of religion so that the morons are in check, yo.
...
<.<
>.>

Nope.

It is because I believe in a god that I feel entitled to quote Ecclesiastes:
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Clearly, this thread doesn't bother me that much, or I wouldn't post on it. But it seems to be part of a recurring theme. Perhaps a little too recurring.

<3 ya man!

That's why I'm here. :)

Feelin' the love. Oh, and kickin' ass and chewing bubble gum.

Except the gum. I'm out.

:D

here is my reasoning on a God or Gods excisting(sp)

throughout history there has been religion in most recorded societies. There has been few groups of atheists that lived in a society together. So by sense that how could that many people be wrong about something the world over believes in. The Hindu's had no contact with the Aztecs, but they believe in multiple gods that rule the world. The Greeks had little to no contact with the Norse, but they believed in a place where the gods lived. Be the places or the gods named different that is just their society giving them names like how a middle class white family wouldn't name their son Jiha-daam because it is not their societal norm. So why would their gods have similar names. The point is that there are so many instances where there is a god or gods to the instances there aren't, I find it hard to believe that so many people through out the history of mankind could be wrong about something, when so few people could be right.

in my opinion

You assume that the only explanation is that they must be correct in some sense, but also consider this: despite great distances and geographical obstacles, they all had human minds. If anything, it proves that the human mind invents gods to explain what it can't explain. Before civilisation, people all over the world thought the world was flat - but they weren't right. As enlightenment dawned on them, so enlightenment dawned later on to consider religion critically.

I saw a documentary on the tsunami, where they interviewed some natives who survived. They said they new the water would come back because the knew the earth stood on a great tree, which would tilt back again and cause the sea to come back as the tsunami. Belief that the Earth is supported by trees and turtles and giants were also widespread at one time, but also incorrect.

It is because I believe in a god that I feel entitled to quote Ecclesiastes:

Clearly, this thread doesn't bother me that much, or I wouldn't post on it. But it seems to be part of a recurring theme. Perhaps a little toorecurring.

Too recurring? Doubt is bad?

http://www.vexappeal.com/lolgod/uploaded_images/doutin-tommy-729256.jpg

There´s some interesting video blocs about this issue in Utube:

A creationist:
http://www.youtube.com/user/VenomFangX

An atheist:
http://www.youtube.com/user/RabidApe

There´s some interesting video blocs about this issue in Utube:

A creationist:
http://www.youtube.com/user/VenomFangX


Well, this guy apparently can't differentiate between evidence and his own assumptions, but...


An atheist:
http://www.youtube.com/user/RabidApe

Am I missing something? What has that to do with the debate?

If by 'god' you mean the Flying Spaghetti Monster, then yes, yes I do.

Too recurring? Doubt is bad?

http://www.vexappeal.com/lolgod/uploaded_images/doutin-tommy-729256.jpg

I wasn't talking about having doubts, I was talking about sharing your doubts with the forum. :)
By now, I think we all know where we stand on the religion issue. Again, I don't want to be one of those, "Silly Goose, We Already Covered Anything You Could Possibly Say About This Months Ago" folk, but I don't think so many threads are necessary.

I wasn't talking about having doubts, I was talking about sharing your doubts with the forum. :)
By now, I think we all know where we stand on the religion issue. Again, I don't want to be one of those, "Silly Goose, We Already Covered Anything You Could Possibly Say About This Months Ago" folk, but I don't think so many threads are necessary.

Until we have an answer, I see no harm. If people don't want to discuss it, there are other threads to debate (or even just gossip) in.

I love the idea that one day - maybe on a forum like this - someone will find the words of truth. An undefeatable argument that will finally seal the question for all people, for all time. Maybe.

Like... a God-Does-Not-Exist-Verifier. Or a God-Particle-Counter. Or something.

Until we have an answer, I see no harm. If people don't want to discuss it, there are other threads to debate (or even just gossip) in.

I love the idea that one day - maybe on a forum like this - someone will find the words of truth. An undefeatable argument that will finally seal the question for all people, for all time. Maybe.

Like... a God-Does-Not-Exist-Verifier. Or a God-Particle-Counter. Or something.
I found it! The proof is here (http://www.you_fell_for_it_and_clicked.com/)!

I found it! The proof is here (http://www.you_fell_for_it_and_clicked.com/)!

I always mouse-over links before I click them, since some dumbasses have posted all manner of 'amusing' diversions on these boards. And it doesn't have to be squicky... just a pdf is enough to send my 'puter through the roof.

The name "www.you_fell_for_it_and_clicked.com" makes me not want to see where it leads, for some reason.

I always mouse-over links before I click them, since some dumbasses have posted all manner of 'amusing' diversions on these boards. And it doesn't have to be squicky... just a pdf is enough to send my 'puter through the roof.

The name "www.you_fell_for_it_and_clicked.com" makes me not want to see where it leads, for some reason.
Curses. I was planning to do something more believable like "www.proofofdaman.com," but I got full of myself and went with that.
Now I am humbled.

EDIT: Lest you think too poorly of me, the link did not go to one of the "amusing" sites you mentioned, it just doesn't exist.

Curses. I was planning to do something more believable like "www.proofofdaman.com," but I got full of myself and went with that.
Now I am humbled.

EDIT: Lest you think too poorly of me, the link did not go to one of the "amusing" sites you mentioned, it just doesn't exist.

I lol'd. Good job. :D

I ABSOLUTELY DO believe in God.;)

Well, this guy apparently can't differentiate between evidence and his own assumptions, but...



Am I missing something? What has that to do with the debate?

Sorry that was the user who made some good responses, but it looks like he has put something else on his youtube page. But his responses are good, I´ll put another link to other responses:
OK here is one norwegian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJPIDnH0Nc&mode=related&search=

That's why I'm here. :)

Feelin' the love. Oh, and kickin' ass and chewing bubble gum.

Except the gum. I'm out.

:D

Not even the Gummi deMilo?
http://dancing-homer.com/images/guide/season6_09.gif

Really?
Let's see, what are things that "so many people through out the history of mankind" so fervently believed........

A flat Earth.
An Earth-Centric Universe.


Unless one has personally been far enough from Earth, all one has is theories (quite sound theories though) and the word of a few people who say they've been to outer space. And a few fake moon-landing videos.


Socialism and Communism as sustainable, successful social constructs.

Theoretically they should work. All implementations so far haven't because of the seven deadly sins; mainly greed.

Nope. Raised Christian, but when actually sitting down and thinking about it, Christianity just didn't make sense on any level at all.

Nor did any other religion, for that matter.

Unless one has personally been far enough from Earth, all one has is theories (quite sound theories though) and the word of a few people who say they've been to outer space. And a few fake moon-landing videos.

And horizons ;)

This is my take on the subject...



If you want to put a label on me then existentialist probably sums me up...but not in its entirety...

I believe religion is a farce...I dont believe in god...creationism is laughable as a concept by supposedly intelligent human beings...the christian church is only here today because it was the most well equipped to force its message down the throats of the uneducated...jesus wasnt born on december 25th...this was a pagan holiday in celebration of the sun...dinosaurs did exist years before adam and eve supposedly turned up...and evolution is real...

however...

and this is where I deviate from science...

I Do believe in something...

The fact remains that we are living on a spinning rock in the middle of a desert of planets....is this not a miracle in itself?

Even if there was a big bang...something happened in the beginning for this to happen...one minute there was nothing...then there was something...miracle? some force had to start the ball rolling...yes we can only speculate to the nature of this force...but id like to thing that forces outside of our basic understanding of the world were at play here...could that not be interpreted as some sort of god like intervention?

I ABSOLUTELY DO believe in God.;)

I believe in you too.

Humm seems like a lot of people quoted what I said.

I guess I should go back and quote myself to prevent any confusion

Well nobody who's alive know how it's like to be dead, nor are there any empirical evidence as to what happens to a persons consciousness upon death. Since nobody knows, why not just let people believe in whatever it is they want to believe in?

That being said, consider that many famous scientist, such as Einstein and Newton was in fact religious. It will take a lot of legitimacy to discredit them as stupid under "empirical evidence" and "science".

My point was that
A. What people believe in that is beyond proof, such as death, is a personal choice. It cannot be proven right or wrong at this point as we have no means of proving either way. To disregard the topic all together or to claim nothingness is just as unprovable as any other religious beliefs.

B. I am not in favor of any religion, or the lack of religion. I am here simply to promote choice. To explore different opinions and point of views rather than discredit anyone who ever attempts to touch religion in any way.

C. Do note that I do not support blind faith, In another post I have also mention that one must verify their teaching through experience, and seek truth only through provable means such as happiness and peace, rather than non provable means, such as being good for the sake of going to heaven.

D. Ultimately I also want to promote a discussion as to what exactly is a better way of thinking, rather or not an absolute better way of thinking exist for questions that has yet to be provable in any means.

I choose to list Einstein because he encourage the exploration, rather than the complete discredit and blocking out, of religion. I understand that he does not believe in a personal God or blind faith in any way, nor does he have any support for the Judeo-Christian. However he doesn't seem to have any problems in religions such as Buddhism base on what he said.

In his own words (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein)

"a person who is religiously enlightened appears to me to be one who has, to the best of his ability, liberated himself from the fetters of his selfish desires and is preoccupied with thoughts, feelings and aspirations to which he clings because of their super-personal value ... regardless of whether any attempt is made to unite this content with a Divine Being, for otherwise it would not be possible to count Buddha and Spinoza as religious personalities. Accordingly a religious person is devout in the sense that he has no doubt of the significance of those super-personal objects and goals which neither require nor are capable of rational foundation ... In this sense religion is the age-old endeavour of mankind to become clearly and completely conscious of these values and goals, and constantly to strengthen their effects."

To "borrow" from Bill Clinton and the infamous query "what is the definition of 'is'?"

Define "God".

Tis what tis:headbang:

Well i do not believe in the common useage of god. I believe in a different different god , One who's name isn't god. So i believe in a god.

Well i do not believe in the common useage of god. I believe in a different different god , One who's name isn't god. So i believe in a god.1. Which god's name is "god" ?
2. Which god(s) do you believe in?

This thread is epic failure.

Sorry that was the user who made some good responses, but it looks like he has put something else on his youtube page. But his responses are good, I´ll put another link to other responses:
OK here is one norwegian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJPIDnH0Nc&mode=related&search=

Yeah, I figured the valid article was being missed somehow, but it was a little confusing.

The Norwegian guy is cool. It's a shame most of the comments on his response seem to be attacking his English.

Not even the Gummi deMilo?
http://dancing-homer.com/images/guide/season6_09.gif

Mmmmm. Gummi deMilo.

Sweet, sweet candy.... *drools, loudly*

Even if there was a big bang...something happened in the beginning for this to happen...one minute there was nothing...then there was something...miracle? some force had to start the ball rolling...yes we can only speculate to the nature of this force...but id like to thing that forces outside of our basic understanding of the world were at play here...could that not be interpreted as some sort of god like intervention?

It could be.. I guess it depends on whether your inclined to asign the prime mover with some kind of sentience.

Answer is, no. Never had any "spirtual awakening" Born a christian, living as an Atheist.

want more replies

And a few fake moon-landing videos.

A joke?

Yes I do, though I am admittedly bad at following His laws.

I take a deist approach.

Even if there was a big bang...something happened in the beginning for this to happen...one minute there was nothing...then there was something...miracle? some force had to start the ball rolling...yes we can only speculate to the nature of this force...but id like to thing that forces outside of our basic understanding of the world were at play here...could that not be interpreted as some sort of god like intervention?
Except that there was no before the big bang. The big bang is the creation of space and time. It wasn't one minute there was nothing and the next there was everything, it goes that one minute there was a minute.

As to whether or not any deities exist... I don't think it matters and I also don't really know what exactly one means when one refers to a deity to begin with anyways.

This thread is epic failure.

Well, that's easy to say this far along.
Now that's one Bible that doesn't disappoint on every page!

Why do you believe in god or don't?

I don't believe.
Simply, there is (objectively) no proof, and I find (of course, this is subjective) uselessly complicated and far-fetched to postulate magical omnipotent invisible being/s to explain and describe Life, the Universe, and Everything Else.

Btw, 42.

I don't believe.
Simply, there is (objectively) no proof, and I find (of course, this is subjective) uselessly complicated and far-fetched to postulate magical omnipotent invisible being/s to explain and describe Life, the Universe, and Everything Else.

Btw, 42.

*thread disappears in a puff of logic*