NationStates Jolt Archive

This OP was posted today:
(News article speaking about Flanders/Walloonie/Belgium issues)
...
But it is teaching me something about the product ‘news’. Not that it is that new to me, but it’s again proving that my feelings about news are right.

I’m wondering, what’s the value of the other news items now? The ones I can’t check, the ones I don’t have a clue about?Edwinasia, rise !! -*Dark Vader reference- (wake up and smell the coffee) :cool:
.



...and then there is this OP "news" about Korea reunification:
-The mobilized crowd erupted into well-choreographed chants of "hurrays!" and "national unification!" as Roh rode through central Pyongyang in an open limousine with Kim Yong Nam, the North's nominal head of state but second to Kim in power.-

(link (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/02/asia/02cndkorea.php))

Notice the use of the word choreographed
and now the same event by some Yahoo "news" outlet:

7 minutes ago

SEOUL (AFP) - North Korea's reclusive leader Kim Jong-Il unexpectedly welcomed visiting South Korean President Roh Moo-Hyun on Tuesday, raising hopes for a summit aimed at ending half a century of hostility.

Kim, stiff and unsmiling in his trademark military-style brown jumpsuit, greeted Roh with a handshake in the North's capital Pyongyang, where tens of thousands of people dressed in their finest lined the streets to cheer.

"Long life! Long life!" they chanted, waving artificial bouquets of the national flower known as Kimjongilia.

Roh, paying only the second visit to Pyongyang by a South Korean leader since the peninsula's division some six decades ago, was originally scheduled to be greeted only by de facto head of state Kim Yong-Nam.

"This is a good sign," a South Korean presidential official told AFP in Seoul. "With Chairman Kim showing up in person to greet the president, the North side showed its sincerity toward the summit."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071002/wl_asia_afp/skoreankoreasummit_071002112815;_ylt=AhzEfC0Szn4n5QegpJMDO.Ks0NUE

its only one word..
Some "Journalist" decided to use that one word.. and it changes the whole enchilada for me.

That was completely justified you *SELF-EDIT*jerk. Sorry to use such language but you are in this case. It would have been completely unethical to leave that word out as it would have been giving a drastically different (and wrong) impression to readers.

That was completely justified you *SELF-EDIT*jerk. Sorry to use such language but you are in this case. It would have been completely unethical to leave that word out as it would have been giving a drastically different (and wrong) impression to readers.... :rolleyes:

and you are? (puppet number?)

*Stumbles in. Reads the original post*

Wha....

*Reads it again*

:confused:

*Reads it a third time*

My head hurts. Ah, fuck it. Who want pie?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwirWWnzJKM

:D

and you are? (puppet number?)

Wow, great retort. For the record, my previous user names were Proggressica and Australiasiaville.

But, in general, I'm somebody who can identify bias in the press and doesn't irrationally jump on a completely justified adjective as an idiotic and incorrect excuse for media-bashing.

I'm somebody who can identify bias in the press..right, just like all the nameless peoples in my Country.

For the record, my previous user names were Proggressica, Australiasiaville and Pacificville.right, just like all the nameless peoples...

right, just like all the nameless peoples in my Country.

right, just like all the nameless peoples...

;)

Is that supposed to be clever or something? Three posts and you have given no reasoning for your claim of bias and in your two replies you've only tried to rubbish me as being a puppet or "nameless" whatever the hell that means.

Would you like to actually make an argument as to why using the word choreographed is biased? Because by all means I'd love to hear it.

... why using the word choreographed is biased? Because by all means I'd love to hear it.It is not biased.. if the crowd cheering was choreographed.

The Journalist has some insider source at the Korean Gov?.. or did he just assume it was choreographed?

Wow, great retort. For the record, my previous user names were Proggressica and Australiasiaville.

But, in general, I'm somebody who can identify bias in the press and doesn't irrationally jump on a completely justified adjective as an idiotic and incorrect excuse for media-bashing.

Aaaaaooooowwww why not? I love to bash the media, I work in the media, and I still love to bash it.

It is not biased.. if it was choreographed.

was it?

That is a stupid question on so many levels. First of all, every political event such as this is choreographed, down to the local level. It is just another part of PR.

Second, this is a major foreign relations and diplomatic mission between two countries with a huge amount of tension, so in an event such as this the planning would be immense.

Third of all, it is North Korea. A country that only sells radios and TVs with government-approved channels pre-tuned and jails people and their families in horrendous and inhumane conditions if they are found with one that is capable of picking up anything else. They are so pedantic about this and a million other intra-state rules, laws and brainwashing in general, imagine the effort they'd go to for an event such as this?

Go do some research on the insanity of North Korea in general, the pedanticness of government PR people and what constitutes fair and balance journalism then get back to me.

Aaaaaooooowwww why not? I love to bash the media, I work in the media, and I still love to bash it.

Nothing wrong with bashing the media. I do all the time- but only when it is justified.

That is a stupid question on so many levels. First of all, every political event such as this is choreographed, down to the local level. It is just another part of PR.you are spinning yourself out of the debate.

the Cheering and Happiness of the Korean crowd.. was NOT spontaneous?.. was it choreographed?

was there some Korean official in some high towers holding some huge boards to signal the crows with the Words "BOO" or CHEER" or "APPLAUSE" ?? (like what they have at Oprah :D )

I had an enormous believe in the media till I was 20-years old.

Together with a friend, I was running a small computer store.

Nearby, lots of punks, dropouts, drug-abusers, marginal people, beggars and other city-hillbillies hang around and disturbed the neighbourhood from time to time.

Most of them were rather pacifist types. But some were not, I was once attacked when leaving my business (they tried to steal my wallet…) and from time to time we suffered from vandalism.

One of my neighbours contacted a newspaper and so they sand a journalist.

Before the interview took place, I asked for anonymity, for obvious reasons.
The journalist understood my problem and agreed. I could be assured.

Few days later in the newspaper on page 1:

Computer shop owner in street XYZ says:
‘Those punks are disgusting animals’

I didn’t say those words and worse of all, I was the only computer shop owner in street XYZ. :)

you are spining your self out of the dabete.

the cheering and Happiness of the Korean crowd.. was NOT spontaneous?.. was it choreographed?

was there some Korean official in some high towers holding some huge boards to signal the crows with the Words "BOO" or CHEER" or "APPLAUSE" ?? (like what they have at Oprah :D )

You obviously don't have the slightest idea about North Korea, much less rationality. If they had have just broken out in cheers of "Dear Leader" or just hysterical screaming it may have been spontaneous, but then again they have been brainwashed since birth. You should see a doco called Inside North Korea by the National Geographic Channel. Anyway, back on topic, they actually "broke out" in chants of "national unification". That isn't what a crowd is going to spontaneously start chanting unless they were told. Please, go find out a little about North Korea before you get into debates you can't win, because you are flat out wrong.

EDIT
Question: how old are you?

I had an enormous believe in the media till I was 20-years old.

Together with a friend, I was running a small computer store.

Nearby, lots of punks, dropouts, drug-abusers, marginal people, beggars and other city-hillbillies hang around and disturbed the neighbourhood from time to time.

Most of them were rather pacifist types. But some were not, I was once attacked when leaving my business (they tried to steal my wallet…) and from time to time we suffered from vandalism.

One of my neighbours contacted a newspaper and so they sand a journalist.

Before the interview took place, I asked for anonymity, for obvious reasons.
The journalist understood my problem and agreed. I could be assured.

Few days later in the newspaper on page 1:

Computer shop owner in street XYZ says:
‘Those punks are disgusting animals’

I didn’t say those words and worse of all, I was the only computer shop owner in street XYZ. :)

Yeah, some journos are a bit dodgey, but most of the ones I've met are genuine people. Also, I'm only judging by your headline and the article may also "name" or describe you, but generally sub-editors (at least in Australia) write the headlines.

you are spining your self out of the dabete.

the cheering and Happiness of the Korean crowd.. was NOT spontaneous?.. was it choreographed?

was there some Korean official in some high towers holding some huge boards to signal the crows with the Words "BOO" or CHEER" or "APPLAUSE" ?? (like what they have at Oprah :D )

I just reread that post and realised how many errors you made (three in the first sentence), which I will point out now. Aside from the obvious grammatical errors littered throughout the post...


Spinning, not spining
Yourself is one word
Debate, not dabete
Happiness didn't need a capital
It was a North Korean crowd, not a Korean crowd
You wrote "Korean official" implying an individual but then say "high towers" implying he is in two or more places at once
You suggest these hypothetical boards were used "to signal the crows"; they are crowds not crows and the boards don't signal the crowd (actually singular) they signal to the crowd
"Words"- again you capitalised a completely random word.


I probably made a few mistakes in my post too, but yours is just pathetic. Are you still in primary school?

So you're not going to address his points when you can simply correct spelling and grammar?

I already have. Second last post on the end of page one. Thanks for playing.

Wow, great retort. For the record, my previous user names were Proggressica and Australiasiaville.

But, in general, I'm somebody who can identify bias in the press and doesn't irrationally jump on a completely justified adjective as an idiotic and incorrect excuse for media-bashing.

Its Oceandrive. What did you expect?

You know what I find really galling about this? Apart for the implied insult, if you could understand it well enough to correct it, why not just respond to it? Why the public humiliation? Just to be insulting?

I don't actulay agree with the poster either in that respect I'm with you, but why did you feel the need to offer up your corrections? Does it advance the debate, or does it server to show what a clever boy you are?

I'm not trying to look clever, just beat in the fact that this Oceandrive character is oblivious and maybe make him or her consider how they think and act.

I just reread that post and realised how many errors you made (three in the first sentence), which I will point out now. Aside from the obvious grammatical errors littered throughout the post...


Spinning, not spining
Yourself is one word
Debate, not dabete
Happiness didn't need a capital
It was a North Korean crowd, not a Korean crowd
You wrote "Korean official" implying an individual but then say "high towers" implying he is in two or more places at once
You suggest these hypothetical boards were used "to signal the crows"; they are crowds not crows and the boards don't signal the crowd (actually singular) they signal to the crowd
"Words"- again you capitalised a completely random word.


I probably made a few mistakes in my post too, but yours is just pathetic. Are you still in primary school?

You know what I find really galling about this? Apart for the implied insult, if you could understand it well enough to correct it, why not just respond to it? Why the public humiliation? Just to be insulting?

I don't actulay agree with the poster either in that respect I'm with you, but why did you feel the need to offer up your corrections? Does it advance the debate, or does it server to show what a clever boy you are?

Its Oceandrive. What did you expect?

I've been around in one form or another for nearly a year, but for some reason I still get Oceandrive and Ruffy mixed up.

You know what I find really galling about this? Apart for the implied insult, if you could understand it well enough to correct it, why not just respond to it? Why the public humiliation? Just to be insulting?

I don't actulay agree with the poster either in that respect I'm with you, but why did you feel the need to offer up your corrections? Does it advance the debate, or does it server to show what a clever boy you are?

I believe that is serve to show :D Sorry! Had to do it :D

You know what I find really galling about this? Apart for the implied insult, if you could understand it well enough to correct it, why not just respond to it? Why the public humiliation? Just to be insulting?

I don't actulay agree with the poster either in that respect I'm with you, but why did you feel the need to offer up your corrections? Does it advance the debate, or does it server to show what a clever boy you are?

kudos for using "clever boy"

I believe that is serve to show :D Sorry! Had to do it :D

Bwhahaha! Actualy I meant sever!:eek:

I'm not trying to look clever, just beat in the fact that this Oceandrive character is oblivious and maybe make him or her consider how they think and act.I will consider everything you put on the table..

Would you consider the possibility that -maybe- the people of Korea would Cheer the possibility of reunification ?

Would you consider the fact that this "Journalist" probably assumed (and has no proof) the cheering reaction of the Korean crowd was choreographed...?

would you?

I will consider everything you put on the table..

That's bs.

Would you consider the possibility that -maybe- the people of Korea would Cheer the possibility of reunification ?

Of course they would. Just as long as it is not under what Kim Jong Il has topside.

Would you consider the fact that this "Journalist" probably assumed (and has no proof) the cheering reaction of the Korean crowd was choreographed...?

Considering it is North Korea...

would you?

Would you admit that you do not know what you are talking about most of the time on these forums? Would you admit that you were wrong in many threads when presented with proof that you are wrong? Would you?

Protip: Its North Korea.
If you DONT cheer for the Dear Leader and praise his every action, you dissapear and your family takes a nice vacation to Hoeryong for life. You can SEE the concentration camps on Google Earth.
The 'spontanious' cheering may not have been planned (unlikely), but even if it wasnt, it doesnt count as 'spontanious' because it was coerced.
North Korea is 1984 come true in a localized sense. The Great Leader was always in charge of North Korea before he died. The Dear Leader has always ruled. We were never at war with South Korea. We have always been at war with the American Imperialist Pigs. There is no shortage of food, your hunger is merely an illusion caused by Imperialist American Pigs testing chemical weapons on us.
Etc. etc. etc.

IWould you consider the possibility that -maybe- the people of Korea would Cheer the possibility of reunification ?

Most Koreans cheer the possibility of reunification, both North and South. They view Korea as an artificially divided nation, and seek to end this divide. The issue, though, is under which government that the peninsula should be unified under. I strongly suspect, though, very few Southerners would cheer unification under the Northern government.

A lot of very thorough reading. (http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=103791089)

Would you consider the fact that this "Journalist" probably assumed (and has no proof) the cheering reaction of the Korean crowd was choreographed...?

It's entirely possible that the journalist, knowing the totalitarian nature of the government of the DPRK, and the level of control it exerts, as well as Kim's penchant for mass choreographed displays (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_Games) made the deduction that the event was choreographed. It's not an entirely unreasonable conclusion to come to.

So, while we cannot say whether or not the reporter actually had evidence either way, it is not beyond belief that what he claims to be the case is so. Furthermore, he would not be irrational in making the assumption he made.

You know what I find really galling about this? Apart for the implied insult, if you could understand it well enough to correct it, why not just respond to it? Why the public humiliation? Just to be insulting?

I don't actulay agree with the poster either in that respect I'm with you, but why did you feel the need to offer up your corrections? Does it advance the debate, or does it server to show what a clever boy you are?


Maybe (s)he's having an obsessive-compulsive disorder. S(H)e's has to correct, not matter how and why, it should be done and now.

No really, I agree with you. Don't moan 'bout the spelling but the content.

I'm pretty sure it was choreographed. Most people usually don't show up to such an event brimming with flowers and banners and whatnot in such orderly fashion (especially when those flowers all happen to be named after Kim).

Even so, eh. I'd rather choreographed cheers than choreographed gunfire...

Most Koreans cheer the possibility of reunification, both North and South. They view Korea as an artificially divided nation, and seek to end this divide. The issue, though, is under which government that the peninsula should be unified under. I strongly suspect, though, very few Southerners would cheer unification under the Northern government.

I think that while in theory most Koreans wish to be reunified most would dislike it in practice. Take the the reunification of East and West Germany. Today many West Germans are tired of spending so much money on East Germany with little apparrent results and many East Germans feel nostalgia for communism, even though they are better off in absolute terms.

I think that while in theory most Koreans wish to be reunified most would dislike it in practice. Take the the reunification of East and West Germany. Today many West Germans are tired of spending so much money on East Germany with little apparrent results and many East Germans feel nostalgia for communism, even though they are better off in absolute terms.

Yes, but the difference between East Germany and North Korea is gigantic, bigger even than the gap between China and North Korea, perhaps even approaching the difference between North and South Korea. (Interestingly, East German trains and buses are used in Pyongyang, but that's only tangentially related to this comment).

The East Germans had the highest standard of living in the Eastern Bloc, secure and diverse supplies of food and decent, if not necessarily world class consumer goods in fairly regular supply. They also had a functioning social system and comparatively low military expenditures (especially compared to the USSR). The only real tarnish on it was the Stasi and their repression, but even the Stasi were nothing compared to what exists in North Korea.

North Korea is impoverished, even borderline mass starvation, and is ruled by a group of nutjobs that have created a repressive cult of personality above and beyond anything any other dictator has ever built. I doubt anyone would ever want that back once they've experienced the much better life that exists outside of their hellhole.

The North Koreans may like reunification, but I'm betting the South Koreans won't enjoy the years of higher taxes to more or less equalize incomes, through human capital and physical infrastructure investments. Even then people have a strange tendency to romanticize an eariler golden age when such an age never existed.

That was completely justified you *SELF-EDIT*jerk. Sorry to use such language but you are in this case. It would have been completely unethical to leave that word out as it would have been giving a drastically different (and wrong) impression to readers.

Unethical to leave out your own "self-edit"ed term?
:confused:

I've been around in one form or another for nearly a year, but for some reason I still get Oceandrive and Ruffy mixed up.

BLASPHEMER
http://www.sfakia-crete.com/sfakia-crete/epiphany.jpg

I think that while in theory most Koreans wish to be reunified most would dislike it in practice. Take the the reunification of East and West Germany. Today many West Germans are tired of spending so much money on East Germany with little apparrent results and many East Germans feel nostalgia for communism, even though they are better off in absolute terms.its like a vaccine.. painful for a moment.

But its for the better in the Long term.